Re: [9fans] Plan 9 Related Work
Hello, please, if you wish, take a look at my old thesis, we can apply for a grant to get it online, polished, hopefully in Go language golang.org running on plan9 native http://www.gli.cas.cz/home/cejchan/model/probab-model.pdf [ps] however, I have no funding at present time, sorry, best, Peter. On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 11:00 PM, Jani Lahtinen jani.lahtin...@gmail.comwrote: I haven't written much here but I have been playing with Plan 9, Plan 9 Port, and Inferno for quite some time now, In the current economic times I feel I should not leave a stone unturned. I am looking for work, either parttime or permanent, hopefully related to Plan 9, as I have developed some affinity to good design related to it. I do not want to include my CV here but I can gladly provide one. As an EU national that area is the most convenient but I can relocate if needed. Jani Lahtinen
Re: [9fans] Supported_PC_hardware list
i was wondering if the Supported_PC_hardware list found here: http://plan9.bell-labs.com/wiki/plan9/Supported_PC_hardware/index.html, was fairly up-to-date? i am particularly interested in the VGA section thanks.
Re: [9fans] Plan 9 Related Work
Dear Peter, Based on your other publications it sounds interesting but I fail to open the link provided. Says 404. Yours, Jani Lahtinen On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 3:08 PM, Peter A. Cejchan tyap...@gmail.com wrote: Hello, please, if you wish, take a look at my old thesis, we can apply for a grant to get it online, polished, hopefully in Go language golang.orgrunning on plan9 native http://www.gli.cas.cz/home/cejchan/model/probab-model.pdf [ps] however, I have no funding at present time, sorry, best, Peter. On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 11:00 PM, Jani Lahtinen jani.lahtin...@gmail.comwrote: I haven't written much here but I have been playing with Plan 9, Plan 9 Port, and Inferno for quite some time now, In the current economic times I feel I should not leave a stone unturned. I am looking for work, either parttime or permanent, hopefully related to Plan 9, as I have developed some affinity to good design related to it. I do not want to include my CV here but I can gladly provide one. As an EU national that area is the most convenient but I can relocate if needed. Jani Lahtinen
Re: [9fans] 9vx instability
In this case, it seems to be less agreement or disagreement than significantly different experiences. Some of that is caused by using 9vx differently, but it also happens that the version of 9vx that others are using has a great many non-trivial differences with the much older one I'm using, and also configuration options. They aren't really directly comparable. Probably the only good advice is to try running it for a while with your particular workload and see how you get on. If it does fail, however, and you're not doing anything too demanding, and you're running Linux, ask me for a copy of the executable I'm running to see if that fares any better.
Re: [9fans] Supported_PC_hardware list
On Tue Nov 22 08:30:20 EST 2011, alexander.kaps...@gmail.com wrote: i was wondering if the Supported_PC_hardware list found here: http://plan9.bell-labs.com/wiki/plan9/Supported_PC_hardware/index.html, was fairly up-to-date? i am particularly interested in the VGA section thanks. the vga section is modest. i rarely see vga failures. i'm also using cinap's real mode emulation to make vesa more robust. - erik
Re: [9fans] Supported_PC_hardware list
Hello I´m unable to get more than 8bits color depth with an ATI 5750. I can do 1280x1024x8. Linux vesa driver can do full HD with 16bit colors iirc. slds. gabi 2011/11/22 erik quanstrom quans...@quanstro.net: On Tue Nov 22 08:30:20 EST 2011, alexander.kaps...@gmail.com wrote: i was wondering if the Supported_PC_hardware list found here: http://plan9.bell-labs.com/wiki/plan9/Supported_PC_hardware/index.html, was fairly up-to-date? i am particularly interestedH in the VGA section thanks. the vga section is modest. i rarely see vga failures. i'm also using cinap's real mode emulation to make vesa more robust. - erik
Re: [9fans] Supported_PC_hardware list
On Tue Nov 22 09:08:06 EST 2011, gdia...@gmail.com wrote: Hello I´m unable to get more than 8bits color depth with an ATI 5750. I can do 1280x1024x8. Linux vesa driver can do full HD with 16bit colors iirc. slds. i've had 1600x1200x^(16 32) working here in the last two days on an ati 5450 and 4290 (rs880) ymmv. - erik
Re: [9fans] Supported_PC_hardware list
hello I have two cards plugged, could be that related to the failures i´m seeing? (either weird pictures and colors or invalid mode errors). I´ll give it another try. gabi 2011/11/22 erik quanstrom quans...@quanstro.net: On Tue Nov 22 09:08:06 EST 2011, gdia...@gmail.com wrote: Hello I´m unable to get more than 8bits color depth with an ATI 5750. I can do 1280x1024x8. Linux vesa driver can do full HD with 16bit colors iirc. slds. i've had 1600x1200x^(16 32) working here in the last two days on an ati 5450 and 4290 (rs880) ymmv. - erik
Re: [9fans] Supported_PC_hardware list
On Tue Nov 22 10:17:10 EST 2011, gdia...@gmail.com wrote: hello I have two cards plugged, could be that related to the failures i´m seeing? (either weird pictures and colors or invalid mode errors). yes, aux/vga and the kernel don't really support multiple video cards. i'm seeing some funnies with the box i'm testing, even though bios has taken pains to turn the onboard chipset off. - erik
[9fans] Returning to Plan 9: Virtualization, Distributions
After a long hiatus, I'd like to get back to experimenting with Plan 9. I have an Ubuntu Linux laptop with AMD's virtualization extensions supported by the CPU, so I figure my best bet is one of the umpteen virtualization tools. Which is best supported by Plan 9 — virtualbox, qemu, or something else? Also, what distributions are best for amd64? Bell Labs'? 9front? 9atom? Thanks, —Joel
Re: [9fans] Returning to Plan 9: Virtualization, Distributions
If you're serious about booting a 64-bit os you need NIX. But you're not going to get graphics. ron
Re: [9fans] Returning to Plan 9: Virtualization, Distributions
hello i tried to boot it with simnow, but the network helper crashes on my installation, and i can´t load nix via pxe. (not sure if that´s related to the fact that i have an intel processor and in the manual they say amd is requeried :-?) I´ll try to do it with vmware one of these days gabi 2011/11/22 ron minnich rminn...@gmail.com: If you're serious about booting a 64-bit os you need NIX. But you're not going to get graphics. ron
Re: [9fans] Returning to Plan 9: Virtualization, Distributions
On Tue Nov 22 10:57:12 EST 2011, gdia...@gmail.com wrote: hello i tried to boot it with simnow, but the network helper crashes on my installation, and i can´t load nix via pxe. (not sure if that´s related to the fact that i have an intel processor and in the manual they say amd is requeried :-?) I´ll try to do it with vmware one of these days today's nix is quite raw. unless you're working on nix itself, you'll be happier with plan 9. - erik
[9fans] (no subject)
Subject factotum auth for commodity web browsers? Hi, I have a distant memory of somone talking about adding factotum support to mozilla or firefox, but I can nolonger fine a reference - did I imagine it? Is there such a thing for p9p perhaps? -Steve
Re: [9fans] Returning to Plan 9: Virtualization, Distributions
On 11/22/2011 9:39 AM, Joel C. Salomon wrote: After a long hiatus, I'd like to get back to experimenting with Plan 9. I have an Ubuntu Linux laptop with AMD's virtualization extensions supported by the CPU, so I figure my best bet is one of the umpteen virtualization tools. Which is best supported by Plan 9 — virtualbox, qemu, or something else? Also, what distributions are best for amd64? Bell Labs'? 9front? 9atom? Thanks, —Joel I have had good luck with qemu-kvm. I've even got a VPS running with all the management bells and wistles like libvirt and such. It has been running solid since march (lab's plan9 with fossil only). I ran a qemu/kvm instance at home for a while too. That was under archlinux though (and an AMD cpu with the necessary extensions). In the former case I had to really play with plan9.ini to get it to boot all the way, but it required nothing out of the ordinary in the end. Choose your virtualized NIC wisely I suppose. -Jack
Re: [9fans] Supported_PC_hardware list
On 11/22/2011 03:56 PM, erik quanstrom wrote: On Tue Nov 22 08:30:20 EST 2011, alexander.kaps...@gmail.com wrote: i was wondering if the Supported_PC_hardware list found here: http://plan9.bell-labs.com/wiki/plan9/Supported_PC_hardware/index.html, was fairly up-to-date? i am particularly interested in the VGA section thanks. the vga section is modest. i rarely see vga failures. i'm also using cinap's real mode emulation to make vesa more robust. - erik thanks to everyone for your input.
Re: [9fans] Supported_PC_hardware list
the intels of the day 915/945/etc have worked well for me the resolution you get is the one that the device supports in vesa mode On Nov 22, 2011, at 4:56 PM, Alexander Kapshuk wrote: On 11/22/2011 03:56 PM, erik quanstrom wrote: On Tue Nov 22 08:30:20 EST 2011, alexander.kaps...@gmail.com wrote: i was wondering if the Supported_PC_hardware list found here: http://plan9.bell-labs.com/wiki/plan9/Supported_PC_hardware/index.html, was fairly up-to-date? i am particularly interested in the VGA section thanks. the vga section is modest. i rarely see vga failures. i'm also using cinap's real mode emulation to make vesa more robust. - erik thanks to everyone for your input.
Re: [9fans] factotum auth for commodity web browsers?
I don't know if any exist out there, but I've been thinking of trying to hack something together recently. I've gone as far as compiling Chromium from source. (A major step on its own!) This came to me after rediscovering WebID (previously known as foaf+ssl) which uses client-side certificates. Factotum would be great to manage those... Salman
Re: [9fans] Returning to Plan 9: Virtualization, Distributions
On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 7:39 AM, Joel C. Salomon joelcsalo...@gmail.com wrote: After a long hiatus, I'd like to get back to experimenting with Plan 9. I have an Ubuntu Linux laptop with AMD's virtualization extensions supported by the CPU, so I figure my best bet is one of the umpteen virtualization tools. Which is best supported by Plan 9 — virtualbox, qemu, or something else? Also, what distributions are best for amd64? Bell Labs'? 9front? 9atom? Thanks, —Joel I found that Virtualbox worked very well when I was fiddling with my Macbook on the way back from IWP9. I haven't tried it on the thinkpad yet. John
Re: [9fans] Returning to Plan 9: Virtualization, Distributions
On 11/22/2011 9:39 AM, Joel C. Salomon wrote: After a long hiatus, I'd like to get back to experimenting with Plan 9. I have an Ubuntu Linux laptop with AMD's virtualization extensions supported by the CPU, so I figure my best bet is one of the umpteen virtualization tools. Which is best supported by Plan 9 — virtualbox, qemu, or something else? On 11/22/2011 02:41 PM, Jack Norton wrote: I have had good luck with qemu-kvm. I've even got a VPS running with all the management bells and wistles like libvirt and such. It has been running solid since march (lab's plan9 with fossil only). On 11/22/2011 05:14 PM, John Floren wrote: I found that Virtualbox worked very well when I was fiddling with my Macbook on the way back from IWP9. I haven't tried it on the thinkpad yet. Thanks; I'll try them in turn, see if I get one to work. —Joel
[9fans] Let's get VM configs onto the Wiki.
I found that Virtualbox worked very well when I was fiddling with my Macbook on the way back from IWP9. I haven't tried it on the thinkpad yet. What would be *really* helpful is if people who have actual real live running this minute Plan 9 under some VM system would post their *specific* VM and Plan9 configuration files to the Wiki. Several people claim to be running Plan 9 under assorted VMs, but it's very difficult for others to reproduce that success, and every time I ask someone for specific configs the response is well that was months ago and I don't use it any more or suchlike. Not that I don't believe them, but basically I don't believe them ;-)
Re: [9fans] Returning to Plan 9: Virtualization, Distributions
On 11/22/2011 10:46 AM, ron minnich wrote: If you're serious about booting a 64-bit os you need NIX. But you're not going to get graphics. To which, on 11/22/2011 11:00 AM, erik quanstrom responded: today's nix is quite raw. unless you're working on nix itself, you'll be happier with plan 9. Is NIX the only distribution for amd64, then? I just want to play around in user space: learn Go, use Unicode in C, c., c. Would I be better off using a 32-bit distro? —Joel
Re: [9fans] Let's get VM configs onto the Wiki.
What would be *really* helpful is if people who have actual real live running this minute Plan 9 under some VM system would post their *specific* VM and Plan9 configuration files to the Wiki. Several people claim to be running Plan 9 under assorted VMs, but it's very difficult for others to reproduce that success, and every time I ask someone for specific configs the response is well that was months ago and I don't use it any more or suchlike. Not that I don't believe them, but basically I don't believe them ;-) i think the problem is that there are so many configurations. there are at least vm versions * vm config * real hardware many of them. hardware passthrough has got to be one of the least appealing ideas that's come out of virtualization. you get all the complications of a virtual environment, coupled with the convenience and sheer joy of dealing with hardware. - erik
Re: [9fans] Returning to Plan 9: Virtualization, Distributions
Please, (b)log the path: I'd like to play again with plan9... but I completely forgot how I had configured qemu-kvm (and I remember that I had had some trouble with the network on my debian)... :-( Giacomo On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 11:50 PM, Joel C. Salomon joelcsalo...@gmail.comwrote: On 11/22/2011 9:39 AM, Joel C. Salomon wrote: After a long hiatus, I'd like to get back to experimenting with Plan 9. I have an Ubuntu Linux laptop with AMD's virtualization extensions supported by the CPU, so I figure my best bet is one of the umpteen virtualization tools. Which is best supported by Plan 9 — virtualbox, qemu, or something else? On 11/22/2011 02:41 PM, Jack Norton wrote: I have had good luck with qemu-kvm. I've even got a VPS running with all the management bells and wistles like libvirt and such. It has been running solid since march (lab's plan9 with fossil only). On 11/22/2011 05:14 PM, John Floren wrote: I found that Virtualbox worked very well when I was fiddling with my Macbook on the way back from IWP9. I haven't tried it on the thinkpad yet. Thanks; I'll try them in turn, see if I get one to work. —Joel
Re: [9fans] Returning to Plan 9: Virtualization, Distributions
On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 2:57 PM, Joel C. Salomon joelcsalo...@gmail.com wrote: On 11/22/2011 10:46 AM, ron minnich wrote: If you're serious about booting a 64-bit os you need NIX. But you're not going to get graphics. To which, on 11/22/2011 11:00 AM, erik quanstrom responded: today's nix is quite raw. unless you're working on nix itself, you'll be happier with plan 9. Is NIX the only distribution for amd64, then? I just want to play around in user space: learn Go, use Unicode in C, c., c. Would I be better off using a 32-bit distro? —Joel You should be able to happily use Nix as a 32-bit Plan 9 system. Unfortunately we don't distribute an install ISO, but I have been playing around with a bootable USB stick with a full-blown fossil environment on it. The current task is to get it booting the nix kernel as well as the regular 32-bit ones--we're getting there! I guess there's no reason we *couldn't* do an install ISO... without modifications it would just give you a 32 bit environment with the Nix source available, and the selection of changes we've made. John
Re: [9fans] Returning to Plan 9: Virtualization, Distributions
To which, on 11/22/2011 11:00 AM, erik quanstrom responded: today's nix is quite raw. unless you're working on nix itself, you'll be happier with plan 9. Is NIX the only distribution for amd64, then? I just want to play around in user space: learn Go, use Unicode in C, c., c. Would I be better off using a 32-bit distro? nix runs in x86_64 long mode, the others do not. everything should run on amd64 hardware and accomplish what you're after, though. - erik
Re: [9fans] Let's get VM configs onto the Wiki.
i think the problem is that there are so many configurations. there are at least vm versions * vm config * real hardware I know. That's why it's important to get this info online. Without it, there's no hope of figuring out what configurations will work reliably.
Re: [9fans] Returning to Plan 9: Virtualization, Distributions
There's confusion here, and I am partly to blame ... if you get googlecode.com/p/nix-os you'll get a file system image that will be usable on a 32-bit machine. We use it with 9vx. That image includes all the bits you need to build and boot a NIX kernel. The intent of this distro is to allow 32-bit users to create 64-bit kernels and test. So the nix-os repo is designed to let you set up on a 32-bit machine and bootstrap a separate 64-bit machine. We thus envision you having more than one system available. I use it as follows: hg clone http://googlecode.com/p/nix-os nix-os cd nix-os ./9vx.OSX10.6 -r . -u rminnich (get on the machine) objtype=386 cd /sys/src/ape/lib mk install cd /sys/src objtype=amd64 mk install cd /sys/src/nix/k10 mk install You are then good to go, unless I missed a step. You need some 386 bits from ape to build the 64-bit code. We've set up nix-os root file system to play nice with 9vx, which is why we include a 9vx for osx in the file system. so to repeat: nix-os is a mercurial image of a root file system for 32-bit nodes, and it is intended to make it easy for you to boot 64-bit nodes. We assumed that you had at least one 32-bit and one 64-bit system. I hope this helps a little. ron
Re: [9fans] Let's get VM configs onto the Wiki.
when i set up virtualbox i had to do these two steps: download this plan9 image: http://virtualboxes.org/images/plan-9/ download and install the extension pack: https://www.virtualbox.org/wiki/Downloads then the other step was to enable USB 2.0 in the Ports config setting. that's all. boots fine as a single-cpu os.
Re: [9fans] Let's get VM configs onto the Wiki.
oh, one more thing: i used bridged network.
Re: [9fans] Let's get VM configs onto the Wiki.
So many configs- is true, since the configuration of the host itself is critical to the virtual platform, and your distroVersion/openbox vs. distro2Version/openbox. Especially the successful archlinux/gentoo/lfs qemu-kvm guys will be like well first I (already) had a kernel compiled for my hardware (lspci, kernel.config), then I enabled KVM support in the kernel, and tun/tap support, then it just worked, because of course, all of that is in the wikis/docs for those necessary steps. If anyone has trouble I would recommend the docs say, compile your own virtual host and glean issue/resolution wiki from what transpires there, otherwise it will be a distro specific problem on the hardware support side of distro-vm-(no-longer hardware phase)guest, and that distro/VM team would be more interested to know how what is broken than anyone looking at plan9 code. Or- not being some kind of gentoo snob, if I had/'there were' some docs on how to get host-side information on how many supported/unsupported syscalls, etc, plan9 made to qemu, I think that would be useful for improving the performance of plan9 on virtual hardware, but I'm not sure. Just letting my mind wander at the end of the day. Those docs on debugging qemu guests probably exist somewhere I won't see right away. regards, andrew ps, Here's a really bad startup script for qemu-kvm, haha (not really, its just really bad .. okay 1 line) kvm -net nic,macaddr=$DISTMAC \ -net tap,ifname=$DISTTAP,script=no,downscript=no \ $DVMOPT \ -hda $DISIMG -m $MVMRAM -daemonize On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 3:58 PM, erik quanstrom quans...@quanstro.netwrote: What would be *really* helpful is if people who have actual real live running this minute Plan 9 under some VM system would post their *specific* VM and Plan9 configuration files to the Wiki. Several people claim to be running Plan 9 under assorted VMs, but it's very difficult for others to reproduce that success, and every time I ask someone for specific configs the response is well that was months ago and I don't use it any more or suchlike. Not that I don't believe them, but basically I don't believe them ;-) i think the problem is that there are so many configurations. there are at least vm versions * vm config * real hardware many of them. hardware passthrough has got to be one of the least appealing ideas that's come out of virtualization. you get all the complications of a virtual environment, coupled with the convenience and sheer joy of dealing with hardware. - erik -- ⎼⎺⎺├@┼␊├├≤-␍⎼␊▒␍:/⎺└␊/⎼⎺#
Re: [9fans] Let's get VM configs onto the Wiki.
oh, one more thing: i used bridged network. One more more thing: 9fans is not the wiki :-P
Re: [9fans] Returning to Plan 9: Virtualization, Distributions
But, if you want more than one core, be sure you install the CL I sent (which has not yet been applied). I'll commit it later today so you could get SMP without applying any CL by hand. I use it as follows: hg clone http://googlecode.com/p/nix-os nix-os cd nix-os ./9vx.OSX10.6 -r . -u rminnich (get on the machine) objtype=386 cd /sys/src/ape/lib mk install cd /sys/src objtype=amd64 mk install cd /sys/src/nix/k10 mk install You are then good to go, unless I missed a step. You need some 386 bits from ape to build the 64-bit code. We've set up nix-os root file system to play nice with 9vx, which is why we include a 9vx for osx in the file system. so to repeat: nix-os is a mercurial image of a root file system for 32-bit nodes, and it is intended to make it easy for you to boot 64-bit nodes. We assumed that you had at least one 32-bit and one 64-bit system. I hope this helps a little. ron
