Re: [9fans] equality sign in Rc

[Bruce Ellis]

Well fix it! Can't be too hard.

brucee

On 14 May 2017 at 02:53, Charles Forsyth  wrote:

>
> On 13 May 2017 at 15:21, trebol  wrote:
>
>> No with hyphenation, my friend!
>
>
> ahh! that's a little more specific. I usually switch it off so I wouldn't
> have noticed.
>

Re: [9fans] Reimplementing Plan 9 in Go (Was: Re: [9front] bio io functions)

[Bruce Ellis]

I agree. Thank you Google translate.

brucee

On 6 May 2017 at 11:25, Skip Tavakkolian  wrote:

> آقای Mark V. Shaney شما ما را خسته کردید.
>
> On Fri, May 5, 2017, 4:51 PM Jules Merit  gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> May I suggest "pxemain"?
>> Grow the runtime. 'size /bin/false'
>>
>> On May 5, 2017 6:28 AM, "Dave MacFarlane"  wrote:
>>
>>> On Fri, May 5, 2017 at 6:21 AM, Stanley Lieber 
>>> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > Plan 9 has not yet been re-implemented in Go.
>>> >
>>> > sl
>>> >
>>>
>>> I started trying to do that at one point, but never got my kernel much
>>> farther than booting just enough to run "Hello, world!" compiled with
>>> 6c on a FAT filesystem in ring 0 and then crashing the system before
>>> deciding I don't have the time to finish it or get it somewhere
>>> useable. If anyone who has the time is interested in picking it up,
>>> contact me off-list and I'll send you a link to my (horribly written
>>> and designed) code.
>>>
>>> I'm more of a userspace kinda guy anyways..
>>>
>>> - Dave
>>>
>>>

Re: [9fans] Postscript and troff

[Bruce Ellis]

bwk mentioned that TeX was unworkable for this situation. Maybe it's time
for another good TeX hack.

:-) brucee

On 5 May 2017 at 15:28, Bakul Shah <ba...@bitblocks.com> wrote:

> This is an opportunity for someone to implement troff macros in TeX.
> Then you can embed EPS easily!
>
> :-)
>
> On Fri, 05 May 2017 15:23:39 +1000 Bruce Ellis <bruce.el...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > I asked bwk - troff wizard, and to paraphrase him "there is no good
> > solution".
> >
> > There is the PSPIC macro in groff, but it generates huge files.
> >
> > For the latest book they used \X to embed markers and a go programs to
> > postprocess troff output.
> >
> > brucee
>
>

Re: [9fans] Postscript and troff

[Bruce Ellis]

I asked bwk - troff wizard, and to paraphrase him "there is no good
solution".

There is the PSPIC macro in groff, but it generates huge files.

For the latest book they used \X to embed markers and a go programs to
postprocess troff output.

brucee

On 2 May 2017 at 19:37, Bruce Ellis <bruce.el...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Specifically html.
>
> brucee
>
> On 2 May 2017 at 19:29, Steve Simon <st...@quintile.net> wrote:
>
>>
>> If it's a diagram i would use the mpictures macros on plan9. if it is a
>> group of pages, then i am at a loss, sorry.
>>
>> http://man.cat-v.org/plan_9/6/mpictures
>>
>> -Steve
>>
>>
>> On 2 May 2017, at 09:59, Bruce Ellis <bruce.el...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Is using \X what I'm looking for, with -Tpost (default)?
>>
>> brucee
>>
>> On 2 May 2017 at 13:44, Prof Brucee <prof.bru...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Any advice on including postscript in a troff document?
>>>
>>> brucee
>>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [9fans] Postscript and troff

[Bruce Ellis]

Specifically html.

brucee

On 2 May 2017 at 19:29, Steve Simon <st...@quintile.net> wrote:

>
> If it's a diagram i would use the mpictures macros on plan9. if it is a
> group of pages, then i am at a loss, sorry.
>
> http://man.cat-v.org/plan_9/6/mpictures
>
> -Steve
>
>
> On 2 May 2017, at 09:59, Bruce Ellis <bruce.el...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Is using \X what I'm looking for, with -Tpost (default)?
>
> brucee
>
> On 2 May 2017 at 13:44, Prof Brucee <prof.bru...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Any advice on including postscript in a troff document?
>>
>> brucee
>>
>
>

Re: [9fans] Postscript and troff

[Bruce Ellis]

Is using \X what I'm looking for, with -Tpost (default)?

brucee

On 2 May 2017 at 13:44, Prof Brucee  wrote:

> Any advice on including postscript in a troff document?
>
> brucee
>

Re: [9fans] Blit

[Bruce Ellis]

Good old jim. I had a great time writing bedbug (a VAX C debugger) using it
- in a weekend with a cockatiel on my shoulder - when you were kind enough
to let me stay as a house guest. I recall you saying that you used bedbug
when writing sam.

Such an enlightenment after using vi. Was it a 1200 baud modem?

brucee

On 27 April 2017 at 22:37, Rob Pike <robp...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Total coincidence: I played on a 5620 yesterday, connected to a 3B2
> running System V. Used jim for the first time since 1985.
>
> -rob
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 10:23 PM, Bruce Ellis <bruce.el...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> I guess Stephen should update his webpage. He's quite a specialized
>> tinkerer. He built a huge analogue synthesizer for the Smashing Pumpkins,
>> so big the photo he showed me was taken in a car lot. I had test audio of
>> his S module as a ring-tone on my old nokia, which drove the nurses in
>> hospital nuts. brucee has epilepsy.
>>
>> I still have a working 5630 in storage. It's quite a shame when the labs
>> tries to productize a neat invention.
>>
>> Skip. Have you made a phone call on the 1ESS with it's two storey rails?
>>
>> brucee
>>
>> On 27 April 2017 at 14:12, Skip Tavakkolian <skip.tavakkol...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> From a recent twitter thread -- droppings?! :) -- I got the impression
>>> that smj wasn't at Comm. Museum anymore.
>>>
>>> Coincidentally,  on the same thread I found out that by a series of
>>> happy accidents my old 5620 ended up in a nice home, restored to its
>>> original beauty. The same guy has done some amazing restoration of old and
>>> exotic computers.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 5:57 PM Bruce Ellis <bruce.el...@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> For those interested in the Blit and other stuff from the labs,
>>>> particularly if you are in the Seattle area, you might like to contact
>>>> s...@sdf.lonestar.org who is the Associated Curator of the
>>>> Communications Museum. He gave me a tour and I introduced him to
>>>> games/crabs.
>>>>
>>>> Big old telephone exchanges in working order are fun!
>>>>
>>>> brucee
>>>>
>>>
>>
>

Re: [9fans] Blit

[Bruce Ellis]

I guess Stephen should update his webpage. He's quite a specialized
tinkerer. He built a huge analogue synthesizer for the Smashing Pumpkins,
so big the photo he showed me was taken in a car lot. I had test audio of
his S module as a ring-tone on my old nokia, which drove the nurses in
hospital nuts. brucee has epilepsy.

I still have a working 5630 in storage. It's quite a shame when the labs
tries to productize a neat invention.

Skip. Have you made a phone call on the 1ESS with it's two storey rails?

brucee

On 27 April 2017 at 14:12, Skip Tavakkolian <skip.tavakkol...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> From a recent twitter thread -- droppings?! :) -- I got the impression
> that smj wasn't at Comm. Museum anymore.
>
> Coincidentally,  on the same thread I found out that by a series of happy
> accidents my old 5620 ended up in a nice home, restored to its original
> beauty. The same guy has done some amazing restoration of old and exotic
> computers.
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 5:57 PM Bruce Ellis <bruce.el...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> For those interested in the Blit and other stuff from the labs,
>> particularly if you are in the Seattle area, you might like to contact
>> s...@sdf.lonestar.org who is the Associated Curator of the Communications
>> Museum. He gave me a tour and I introduced him to games/crabs.
>>
>> Big old telephone exchanges in working order are fun!
>>
>> brucee
>>
>

[9fans] Blit

[Bruce Ellis]

For those interested in the Blit and other stuff from the labs,
particularly if you are in the Seattle area, you might like to contact
s...@sdf.lonestar.org who is the Associated Curator of the Communications
Museum. He gave me a tour and I introduced him to games/crabs.

Big old telephone exchanges in working order are fun!

brucee

Re: [9fans] ps bug

[Bruce Ellis]

Doesn't help.

brucee

On 11 April 2017 at 17:21, Sergey Zhilkin <szhil...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Seems ps (shell script from hell) uses plan9port sort. And coreutils sort
> do not undarstand +1 parameter.
>
> Try to place plan9port path before any other.
>
> 2017-04-11 9:54 GMT+03:00 Bruce Ellis <bruce.el...@gmail.com>:
>
>> using plan9ports' "ps -e" does not print all processes. dirread /proc fun
>> I guess.
>>
>> brucee
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> С наилучшими пожеланиями
> Жилкин Сергей
> With best regards
> Zhilkin Sergey
>

[9fans] ps bug

[Bruce Ellis]

using plan9ports' "ps -e" does not print all processes. dirread /proc fun I
guess.

brucee

Re: [9fans] IPV6

[Bruce Ellis]

A shitshow is an apt description. I searched hard for an answer to my
question.

Regards,

brucee

On 1 April 2017 at 21:06, Kurt H Maier <k...@sciops.net> wrote:

> On Sat, Apr 01, 2017 at 02:46:53AM -0700, Ori Bernstein wrote:
> > On Sat, Apr 01, 2017 at 08:36:55PM +1100, Bruce Ellis wrote:
> > > Does anyone know what IPV6 addresses like fec0:0:0:%1 mean and how
> to
> > > make a real (plan9) IPV6 address from them.
> > >
> > > Regards.
> > >
> > > brucee
> >
> > The portion before the '%' is a plain old (link local) ipv6 address. The
> > part after the '%' is a zone id. It's safe to ignore.
> >
> > Because link local addresses share prefixes, they may need to be told
> > what interface to come out of. They can be ignored safely enough, or if
> > you want you use an arbitrary string like 'fe80::%/net.alt' as the zone.
> >
> >
>
> Careful.  fec0: is site-local, not link-local, which is fe80:.  I've
> never seen a zone ID attached to a site-local address;  I thought the
> zone shit was introduced at the same time they deprected the site-local
> addresses...
>
> ipv6 is a shitshow.  Cursory inspection of relevant RFCs does not lead
> to clarity.  Godspeed.
>
> khm
>
>

Re: [9fans] IPV6

[Bruce Ellis]

It doesn't work if I ignore it. ip(2) doesn't mention '%'

Regards,

brucee

On 1 April 2017 at 20:46, Ori Bernstein <o...@eigenstate.org> wrote:

> On Sat, Apr 01, 2017 at 08:36:55PM +1100, Bruce Ellis wrote:
> > Does anyone know what IPV6 addresses like fec0:0:0:%1 mean and how to
> > make a real (plan9) IPV6 address from them.
> >
> > Regards.
> >
> > brucee
>
> The portion before the '%' is a plain old (link local) ipv6 address. The
> part after the '%' is a zone id. It's safe to ignore.
>
> Because link local addresses share prefixes, they may need to be told
> what interface to come out of. They can be ignored safely enough, or if
> you want you use an arbitrary string like 'fe80::%/net.alt' as the zone.
>
>
>

[9fans] IPV6

[Bruce Ellis]

Does anyone know what IPV6 addresses like fec0:0:0:%1 mean and how to
make a real (plan9) IPV6 address from them.

Regards.

brucee

Re: [9fans] bug in exportfs

[Bruce Ellis]

an alternative is just to have an exclude file listing files/directories
that cannot be read or walked to.

brucee

On 15 February 2016 at 12:05, arisawa  wrote:

> Hello,
>
> > 2016/02/15 7:57、Charles Forsyth  のメール：
> >
> >
> > On 14 February 2016 at 16:38,  wrote:
> > i could imagine the filtering being usefull when cpu'ing to foreign
> machines,
> > as a server can easily compromize your system when cpu exports your whole
> > local namespace
> >
> > You'd still be better off using a custom nsfile to control it, running
> that cpu in
> > a more restricted name space from the start, so leaks are impossible.
>
> filtering of exportfs is handy if it works well.
> for example, assume we want to exclude all files of name that begins with
> “.”,
> then it is probably difficult to do so using only nsfile.
>
> the “+” filtering is almost useless.
> it will not be difficult to rewrite the current code so that we have
> better matching rule.
> (I think ordering of pattern sequence should be used in evaluation.)
> however the change may break something others.
> (but I doubt the “+” filtering is really used)
>
>
>
>

[9fans] utf-8

[Bruce Ellis]

Not to burst a balloon but check out variable length ints in the Midi File
Format for utf-8 in the early 80s.

brucee

Re: [9fans] Undefined Behaviour in C

[Bruce Ellis]

Simple data share in Inferno. Define a struct with a single byte in it.

Now with b == nil throw in a b.data = 42. Visible channel to every process.

This requires 0xF zillion to be writeable.

On 26 November 2015 at 22:22, Brantley Coile  wrote:

> Hi Bakul.  Long time since our Bay Area plan 9 hacking sessions. I've
> avoided the valley all together for a year and a half now. Not quite long
> enough yet.
>
> I thought the same thing, using ~0 for nil, but realized two things.
> First, that's a valid address on the PDP11 where the convention developed.
> It's the unibus space. Second, ~0 + member offest is still in page zero.
>
> By the way, are there any structs more than 4K in Linux? Are there any in
> plan 9?
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Nov 26, 2015, at 2:27 AM, Bakul Shah  wrote:
>
> Using 0xfff...f instead of 0 for a null ptr might've been less
> "disgusting"!
>
> On Nov 25, 2015, at 6:04 PM, Prof Brucee  wrote:
>
> gcc is indeed a very sad tome. The mmap of 0 is disgusting. I like kenc.
> It just works. My behaviour this afternoon will be undefined but not as
> stupid as that of some programmers.
> On 26/11/2015 5:43 AM, "Brantley Coile"  wrote:
>
>> Align it to column 7 and it looks like all the code I saw when I started.
>>
>> iPhone email
>>
>> On Nov 25, 2015, at 12:13 PM, Ryan Gonzalez  wrote:
>>
>> Neither! It's what happens when you run sed 's/^\s*//' on your whole code
>> base, yielding results like (from cmd/yacc.c):
>>
>>
>> void
>> setup(int argc, char *argv[])
>> {
>> long c, t;
>> int i, j, fd, lev, ty, ytab, *p;
>> int vflag, dflag, stem;
>> char actnm[8], *stemc, *s, dirbuf[128];
>> Biobuf *fout;
>>
>> ytab = 0;
>> vflag = 0;
>> dflag = 0;
>> stem = 0;
>> stemc = "y";
>> foutput = 0;
>> fdefine = 0;
>> fdebug = 0;
>> ARGBEGIN{
>> case 'v':
>> case 'V':
>> vflag++;
>> break;
>> case 'D':
>> yydebug = ARGF();
>> break;
>> case 'a':
>> yyarg = 1;
>> break;
>> case 'd':
>> dflag++;
>> break;
>> case 'l':
>> yyline = 0;
>> break;
>> case 'o':
>> ytab++;
>> ytabc = ARGF();
>> break;
>> case 's':
>> stem++;
>> stemc = ARGF();
>> break;
>> case 'S':
>> parser = PARSERS;
>> break;
>> default:
>> error("illegal option: %c", ARGC());
>> }ARGEND
>> openup(stemc, dflag, vflag, ytab, ytabc);
>> fout = dflag?fdefine:ftable;
>> if(yyarg){
>> Bprint(ftable, "#define\tYYARG\t1\n\n");
>> }
>> if((fd = mkstemp(ttempname)) >= 0){
>> tempname = ttempname;
>> ftemp = Bfdopen(fd, OWRITE);
>> }
>> if((fd = mkstemp(tactname)) >= 0){
>> actname = tactname;
>> faction = Bfdopen(fd, OWRITE);
>> }
>> if(ftemp == 0 || faction == 0)
>> error("cannot open temp file");
>> if(argc < 1)
>> error("no input file");
>> infile = argv[0];
>> if(infile[0] != '/' && getwd(dirbuf, sizeof dirbuf)!=nil){
>> i = strlen(infile)+1+strlen(dirbuf)+1+10;
>> s = malloc(i);
>> if(s != nil){
>> snprint(s, i, "%s/%s", dirbuf, infile);
>> cleanname(s);
>> infile = s;
>> }
>> }
>> finput = Bopen(infile, OREAD);
>> if(finput == 0)
>> error("cannot open '%s'", argv[0]);
>> cnamp = cnames;
>>
>> defin(0, "$end");
>> extval = PRIVATE; /* tokens start in unicode 'private use' */
>> defin(0, "error");
>> defin(1, "$accept");
>> defin(0, "$unk");
>> mem = mem0;
>> i = 0;
>>
>> for(t = gettok(); t != MARK && t != ENDFILE;)
>> switch(t) {
>> case ';':
>> t = gettok();
>> break;
>>
>> case START:
>> if(gettok() != IDENTIFIER)
>> error("bad %%start construction");
>> start = chfind(1, tokname);
>> t = gettok();
>> continue;
>>
>> case TYPEDEF:
>> if(gettok() != TYPENAME)
>> error("bad syntax in %%type");
>> ty = numbval;
>> for(;;) {
>> t = gettok();
>> switch(t) {
>> case IDENTIFIER:
>> if((t=chfind(1, tokname)) < NTBASE) {
>> j = TYPE(toklev[t]);
>> if(j != 0 && j != ty)
>> error("type redeclaration of token %s",
>> tokset[t].name);
>> else
>> SETTYPE(toklev[t], ty);
>> } else {
>> j = nontrst[t-NTBASE].value;
>> if(j != 0 && j != ty)
>> error("type redeclaration of nonterminal %s",
>> nontrst[t-NTBASE].name );
>> else
>> nontrst[t-NTBASE].value = ty;
>> }
>> case ',':
>> continue;
>> case ';':
>> t = gettok();
>> default:
>> break;
>> }
>> break;
>> }
>> continue;
>>
>> case UNION:
>> /* copy the union declaration to the output */
>> cpyunion();
>> t = gettok();
>> continue;
>>
>> case LEFT:
>> case BINARY:
>> case RIGHT:
>> i++;
>>
>> case TERM:
>> /* nonzero means new prec. and assoc. */
>> lev = t-TERM;
>> ty = 0;
>>
>> /* get identifiers so defined */
>> t = gettok();
>>
>> /* there is a type defined */
>> if(t == TYPENAME) {
>> ty = numbval;
>> t = gettok();
>> }
>> for(;;) {
>> switch(t) {
>> case ',':
>> t = gettok();
>> continue;
>>
>> case ';':
>> break;
>>
>> case IDENTIFIER:
>> j = chfind(0, tokname);
>> if(j >= NTBASE)
>> error("%s defined earlier as nonterminal", tokname);
>> if(lev) {
>> if(ASSOC(toklev[j]))
>> error("redeclaration of precedence of %s", tokname);
>> SETASC(toklev[j], lev);
>> SETPLEV(toklev[j], i);
>> }
>> if(ty) 

Re: [9fans] Frogs?

[Bruce Ellis]

As an historical note the space character was once a frog. Rob told me that
he removed it from isfrog just to see if this broke anything. It didn't.

brucee

On 7 October 2015 at 02:25, Kare Nuorteva  wrote:

>
> Thanks to all for very informative replies! :)
>
>
> Cheers,
> Kare
>
>

Re: [9fans] plan9 on windows

[Bruce Ellis]

https://bitbucket.org/mtrS/pf9

On 10 June 2015 at 01:57, David Pick d.m.p...@qmul.ac.uk wrote:

 On 09/06/15 16:52, Steve Simon wrote:

  Its looking like I may be sintting in fronto of windows for a while
 
  Anyone suggest a version of sam, B, and 9term which works on win64?
 
  I don't think I need any of the other command line tools as I have them
 already.

 Not that I know of -- but Unix ports might work under Cygwin.

 --
 David Pick
 Network Security Manager, IT Services
 Queen Mary University of London
 Tel: +44 (0) 20 7882 7079
 Mob: +44 (0) 7973 379 161
 E-Mail: d.m.p...@qmul.ac.uk

Re: [9fans] Debian bug 737206 - rc shell uses insecurely /tmp

[Bruce Ellis]

As in I have ties older than your /tmp.

On 7 December 2014 at 05:29, Charles Forsyth charles.fors...@gmail.com
wrote:


 On Sat, Dec 6, 2014 at 5:22 AM, lu...@proxima.alt.za wrote:

 40 years on, you'd think someone would deal with it.


 The point I was trying to make is that it was realised early on (eg, when
 time-sharing at universities)
 that a shared /tmp was a problem. Hacks such as +s or special schemes for
 allocating files don't really
 address the problem.

 Now look at that number: 40. Four decades. During that time there has been
 any amount of foolish
 crud added to this or that kernel, distribution ,graphics subsystem,
 standards, ... but instead of fixing
 it after 4 0 years, we get notes explaining that it's the application's
 business, in this case the shell,
 or perhaps the underlying library, to try to address security issues
 instead of fixing it, once for all.
 After 40 years (more than a generation).

Re: [9fans] Debian bug 737206 - rc shell uses insecurely /tmp

[Bruce Ellis]

Well I hope he has fun fixing a sandwich. Your words  ... because Debian
people are not very good at doing things correctly.

On 5 December 2014 at 15:14, Kurt H Maier k...@sciops.net wrote:

 Quoting Bruce Ellis bruce.el...@gmail.com:

  Don't these people have better things to do than finding non-bugs in
 systems they don't understand?

 brucee


 This bug is being reported against 9base, which is a port of stuff
 to unix similar to (and based on) plan9port.

 He is reporting it to 9fans and 9trouble because Debian people are
 not very good at doing things correctly.   Fortunately he seems to
 accidentally have sent his message to some folks who might care in
 addition to the ones who don't.

 khm

Re: [9fans] Debian bug 737206 - rc shell uses insecurely /tmp

[Bruce Ellis]

Don't these people have better things to do than finding non-bugs in
systems they don't understand?

brucee

On 5 December 2014 at 13:33, Charles Forsyth charles.fors...@gmail.com
wrote:


 On Wed, Dec 3, 2014 at 11:49 PM, Stéphane Aulery saul...@free.fr wrote:

 discovered that rc
creates temporary files in an insecure way:


 rc was built for a system that made /tmp secure by not sharing it (it's
 always private to a user and even sometimes to a set of processes).
 That way not every app has to try to help sustain the pretence that a
 shared /tmp can really be secured (+s bits, EXCL create, etc..)
 Obviously the version for Unix will have to change its generation scheme
 to fit in.

Re: [9fans] Do Plan9Port's lib9 and libbio work on Windows?

[Bruce Ellis]

I agree. I have never seen Inferno built with ming.

brucee

On 30 November 2014 at 12:31, Charles Forsyth charles.fors...@gmail.com
wrote:


 On 29 November 2014 at 03:31, Ryan rym...@gmail.com wrote:


 Of course; VS can barely compile anything useful.


 The version of lib9 and libbio in Inferno will compile with the free MS
 compiler suite.
 I don't remember any particular problems.

Re: [9fans] kencc benchmark vs gcc

[Bruce Ellis]

Then again if I'm writing a multi-threaded program then go blows gcc out of
the water.

brucee
On 18/10/2014 8:18 AM, Anthony Sorace a...@9srv.net wrote:

 There have been many over the years (I think the original papers present
 something), but I've not seen anything current enough to be useful. The
 very short version: gcc almost always produces faster executables from the
 same code.

Re: [9fans] p9p: Virtual terminal fileserver

[Bruce Ellis]

To be honest I've wondered about this for a while.

Here's my quandry...

I use Vmware for Ubuntu 14 LTS.

First I start a dumbarse terminal and do:

factotum
plumber
sam9term

This gives me something I can work with.

But when I run venti, then fossil - I get no fossilcons in $ns. Fossil
works fine but you can't really keep it together without the console.

Now I digress. But I don't really.

If I try and run another 9term (as you would) you get out of ptys.
Clearly my fscons is a failed pty.

That is my experience.

brucee
 On 14/10/2014 1:54 AM, User  ho...@awesom.eu wrote:

 Hi,
 Mycroftiv wrote hubfs for plan9 (
 http://www.plan9.bell-labs.com/wiki/plan9/Hubfs/index.html)
 It may serve as inspiration :-)

 On Mon, Oct 13, 2014 at 03:35:53PM +0200, Enrico Weigelt, metux IT consult
 wrote:
  On 12.10.2014 19:47, Skip Tavakkolian wrote:
 
  Hi,
 
   i'm a little confused by this. could you describe how this will work
   from a user's perspective? do you mean that a user on p9p starts 9term,
   but the /dev/cons is really a /dev/pts/* etc.?
 
  I'd like to run it on a Linux system (eg. via p9p).
 
  It should start an given command (eg. a shell or some other application)
  on a virtual terminal and provide access to it via 9P (maybe even use
  separate VTs for stdio vs. stderr).
 
  As a counterpart I'd like to have some tool which can attach to these
  servers (perhaps even multiple clients to the same session), so I have
  a similar feature as a detached screen(1) session.
 
 
  mit freundlichen Gren
  --
  Enrico Weigelt,
  metux IT consulting
  +49-151-27565287
 

Re: [9fans] MIPS64

[Bruce Ellis]

I stand corrected.

brucee


On 6 September 2014 17:20, Shane Morris edgecombe...@gmail.com wrote:

 Last millennia, don't you mean? ^.^

 Sorry, couldn't resist. If I had known about Inferno when I still had my
 PS2 Linux Kit working... =(


 On Sat, Sep 6, 2014 at 3:24 PM, Bruce Ellis bruce.el...@gmail.com wrote:

 Interesting. I did 4c last century (for the Inferno PS2 port). Must have
 not made it into the distrib.

 brucee
 On 06/09/2014 2:57 PM, cherry lunari...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hello 9Fans,

 I would like to share that mips64 support of Plan 9 is currently
 available. The compiler and the libraries are at
 https://bitbucket.org/cherry9/4c
 And a 64-bit kernel for Loongson machine is built, at
 https://bitbucket.org/cherry9/plan9-loongson64
 The kernel seems to work fine, and so do programs like acme and page.

 The userland support is in the compiler repo instead of along with the
 kernel, as I hope it will be useful for not only Loongson but mips64
 in general.

 The kernel is not 9k kernel though. It is instead a (minimal)
 modification from 32-bit Plan 9. The next step is probably to switch
 to 9k kernel. For the userland, ape is not ported yet, so a few
 programs don't build. Currently the kernel code is not so
 user-friendly: to build the kernel, it needs to bind _port64/ before
 /sys/src/9/port/, and in the 32-bit Loongson sources bind 2f/ to the
 front to use 2F drivers. A kernel image is uploaded to the download
 page of the repo.

 Hope this is useful.

 Thanks,
 - cherry

Re: [9fans] MIPS64

[Bruce Ellis]

I started with the linux kit and had Inferno working in two days.

The linux kit is funny. Its is so slow and stupid. But handy for putting an
Inferno image on a cartridge.

brucee


On 7 September 2014 04:11, Shane Morris edgecombe...@gmail.com wrote:

 Very true!


 On Sun, Sep 7, 2014 at 3:49 AM, s...@9front.org wrote:

  If I had known about Inferno when I still had my
  PS2 Linux Kit working... =(

 Then you would have a PS2 and still not have the Inferno port to run on
 it.

 sl

Re: [9fans] MIPS64

[Bruce Ellis]

Interesting. I did 4c last century (for the Inferno PS2 port). Must have
not made it into the distrib.

brucee
On 06/09/2014 2:57 PM, cherry lunari...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hello 9Fans,

 I would like to share that mips64 support of Plan 9 is currently
 available. The compiler and the libraries are at
 https://bitbucket.org/cherry9/4c
 And a 64-bit kernel for Loongson machine is built, at
 https://bitbucket.org/cherry9/plan9-loongson64
 The kernel seems to work fine, and so do programs like acme and page.

 The userland support is in the compiler repo instead of along with the
 kernel, as I hope it will be useful for not only Loongson but mips64
 in general.

 The kernel is not 9k kernel though. It is instead a (minimal)
 modification from 32-bit Plan 9. The next step is probably to switch
 to 9k kernel. For the userland, ape is not ported yet, so a few
 programs don't build. Currently the kernel code is not so
 user-friendly: to build the kernel, it needs to bind _port64/ before
 /sys/src/9/port/, and in the 32-bit Loongson sources bind 2f/ to the
 front to use 2F drivers. A kernel image is uploaded to the download
 page of the repo.

 Hope this is useful.

 Thanks,
 - cherry

Re: [9fans] other kernel bug

[Bruce Ellis]

Could this solve the 'why is swap so crappy?'
On 05/06/2014 11:58 AM, cinap_len...@felloff.net wrote:

 correct.

 --
 cinap

Re: [9fans] too fast key repeat in pcpae 2cpu mode

[Bruce Ellis]

Fixed!
On 09/04/2014 1:13 PM, kokam...@hera.eonet.ne.jp wrote:

  so basically the timing loop is messed up.  if you could run the amd64
  kernel on this machine, this will not happen.

 Before I do this, I tried the 'sources' pc kernel for 2 cpu.
 It recognizes 2 cpus and has no problem.

 Kenji

Re: [9fans] mechanism to bind partitions in /dev?

[Bruce Ellis]

disk/prep (and it's mates) are what you need for sdC0. man 8 prep.

brucee


On 18 January 2014 17:57, Yoann Padioleau p...@fb.com wrote:

 Hi,

 Can someone explain how the partitions in /dev/sdC0/xxx are populated? Who
 create those device files? I have a small plan9 kernel running a small
 shell (sh.Z)
 in memory and when I do  'bind #S/sdC0 /dev/' I just see the 'data',
 'ctl', and 'raw' files.
 There is no 9fat or plan9 or whatever partitions there is on this disk. In
 fact I've
 tried to make on MACos via the Utility disk some fat images and when I do
 qemu -hdb dosdisk.img I can not access again the fat partition on this disk
 (I've tried dossrv and then mount /srv/dos/ /mnt #sdC1/data but it does
 not work).
 I can access it though when it's on a floppy disk (mount /srv/dos /mnt
 /dev/fd0disk
 works). How fd0disk is different from #sdC1/data?

Re: [9fans] Help requested. Boyd, where are you?

[Bruce Ellis]

Boyd thought Sudoko sucked, I wrote a limbo program that serves a webpage.

brucee


On 13 January 2014 15:28, andrey mirtchovski mirtchov...@gmail.com wrote:

 you can borrow the ui from here:

 http://mirtchovski.com/p9/sudoku/

 On Sun, Jan 12, 2014 at 9:20 PM,  lu...@proxima.alt.za wrote:
  I was thinking of doing a Sudoku solver
  in Plan 9.
 
  So, what kind of peripherals are going to be available for the UI?
 
  ++L
 
 
 

Re: [9fans] /n convention history?

[Bruce Ellis]

/n was introduced (i believe) in 8th edition for weinberger's neta (and
later netb) remote filesystem.

there was a directory in /n for each remote machine. the gmount() system
call was used to mount a stream, usually a datakit connection, to the
remote machine. it was great.

brucee


On 13 January 2014 19:32, fge...@gmail.com wrote:

 When I first met plan9 (2nd ed) I realized that /n was a very powerful
 ordering concept. (Since then I usually create a /n or ~/n on every
 unix where I will use mount to customize my ns.)
 I'd like to know
 - what's the story of /n? (why was it invented?)
 - what does n stand for? (a set of n things?)
 thanks,
 fgergo

Re: [9fans] Maximal number of processes

[Bruce Ellis]

Good work. As my good friend Boyd once said Don't give me bullshit
speculation. Measure something!.

brucee


On 10 January 2014 20:15, Charles Forsyth charles.fors...@gmail.com wrote:


 On 10 January 2014 09:11, Charles Forsyth charles.fors...@gmail.comwrote:

 At that point I decided to quite while I was still ahead.


 20,000 did not work because it ran out of kernel physical memory. That
 preallocation could be adjusted, but at some point the available kernel
 virtual address space will limit what it can allocate.

Re: [9fans] Maximal number of processes

[Bruce Ellis]

suck it and see, the answerers didn't understand the question. add
nproc=XXX to plan9.ini and use the environment, or hard code code it. i'd
like to see your results for nproc=50 and nproc=5000.

brucee


On 9 January 2014 19:08, Pavel Klinkovský pavel.klinkov...@gmail.comwrote:

 Hi Steven,


 conf.nproc = 100 + ((conf.npage*BY2PG)/MB)*5;
 if(cpuserver)
 conf.nproc *= 3;
 if(conf.nproc  2000)
 conf.nproc = 2000;

 In general, you will find that 2000 is the highest allowable due to
 limits imposed by proc.c.


 but if I understand it correctly it is just soft limit, not a hard one
 inborn in CPU architecture.

 By the hard limit I consider something like maximal capacity of GDT, LDT
 or something similar, if exists.


 At the end of the day, the only way to be sure is to read the source.


 I did (of course, I am not an expert on Plan9 kernel), and I did not find
 any hard limit there.
 However to be sure I issued my question here.

 Pavel

Re: [9fans] Vanilla Plan 9 or one of the flavors?

[Bruce Ellis]

Welcome to what is becoming something indistinguishable from the thousands
of linux blame-game mailing lists. Grow up. Read a good book. Go to the
beach.

brucee


On 6 January 2014 16:01, Steven Stallion sstall...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Sun, Jan 5, 2014 at 10:53 PM, Lyndon Nerenberg lyn...@orthanc.ca
 wrote:

  ... what works for me.
 
  That's the part that frustrates me these days.  No sharing.  Inside or
 out.

 I'd suggest taking a look at contrib/stallion (particularly patch and
 src) before adding yet more vitriol to the list.

  In the case of 'The Labs' these days, sharing seems to be an anathema.
  Acceptance of outside code?  Never.

 I'm not certain this is a completely fair criticism. The Labs is quite
 a bit smaller than it used to be these days. Patience helps.

  For the rest of us, share my code by accepting what I wrote - verbatim -
 or just peer at my work on the pedestal I constructed over here?  Feh.

 I submit patches for everything I work on that touches sources. There
 are a number of others that do the same, regardless of whether they
 get rejected or not.

  What the fuck ever happened to 'community' ...

 Indeed.

Re: [9fans] MIPS LE fp register ordering in MOVD

[Bruce Ellis]

I don't recall 0c ever being a script. That was done this century. Looks
like things got broke.

brucee


On 27 December 2013 15:41, lu...@proxima.alt.za wrote:

  You might be able to blame the play station 2 and the two different MIPS
  chips it had. I did two compilers. The FP was very unusual and one was LE
  and the other BE. Inferno port worked well.

 Eventually, it seems that the second compiler was somehow absorbed: 0c
 became a script to invoke vc, or somesuch.  Could you shed some light
 on this?  Or was forsyth involved?  Bell Labs are consistently short
 on rationales.

 ++L

Re: [9fans] MIPS LE fp register ordering in MOVD

[Bruce Ellis]

Vita got the good gear. Ken said something about no need for them to find
the bugs again. Halcyon days.

We used 0? for RM4700 and later the QED7000.

brucee
 On 28 Dec 2013 12:24, cherry lunari...@gmail.com wrote:




 On Thu, Dec 26, 2013 at 11:32 PM, Bruce Ellis bruce.el...@gmail.comwrote:

 You might be able to blame the play station 2 and the two different MIPS
 chips it had. I did two compilers. The FP was very unusual and one was LE
 and the other BE. Inferno port worked well.


 Thanks very much for your hint. Inferno's 0l uses fnuxi4, whereas its vl
 uses fnuxi8, just like Plan 9's. I adopted the Inferno 0l's way, and added
 one line in obj.c to set fnuxi4 for BE, as well as the corresponding debug
 output. This seems to work with both BE and LE. For BE it gives the same
 output as before.

 diff /sys/src/cmd/vl/asm.c ./asm.c
 672c672
  buf.dbuf[l] = cast[fnuxi8[i+4]];
 ---
  buf.dbuf[l] = cast[fnuxi4[i]];
 diff /sys/src/cmd/vl/obj.c ./obj.c
 1391a1392
  fnuxi4[i] = c;
 1415a1417,1419
  for(i=0; i4; i++)
  Bprint(bso, %d, fnuxi4[i]);
  Bprint(bso,  );

 Does this break anything? If not, I will submit a patch.

 Thanks,
 - cherry

Re: [9fans] MIPS LE fp register ordering in MOVD

[Bruce Ellis]

You might be able to blame the play station 2 and the two different MIPS
chips it had. I did two compilers. The FP was very unusual and one was LE
and the other BE. Inferno port worked well.

brucee


On 27 December 2013 14:41, cherry lunari...@gmail.com wrote:




 On Thu, Dec 26, 2013 at 6:46 PM, cherry lunari...@gmail.com wrote:

 Another issue is 0l/vl seems to output wrong bits for single precision
 floats in little endian mode, due to a similar reason: it used bytes 4-7
 instead of 0-3. This seems to fix it:

 % diff /sys/src/cmd/vl/asm.c asm.c
 672c672,675
  buf.dbuf[l] = cast[fnuxi8[i+4]];
 ---
  if(little)
  buf.dbuf[l] = cast[fnuxi8[i]];
  else
  buf.dbuf[l] = cast[fnuxi8[i+4]];

 An alternative fix would be simply use fnuxi4 instead of fnuxi8, so that
 both BE and LE would work (I guess, don't have BE machine to test).


 Indeed I can test it, simply diff the output of vl before and after.
 Using, fnuxi4 does NOT work for BE, as fnuxi4 is only set for LE
 (obj.c:1385,1404), probably due to (the same or another) historical reason.

 - cherry

Re: [9fans] Adding a new user on 9-Front

[Bruce Ellis]

A quote I like from the 80s at the Labs - netnews is like standing up in a
crowded theater and shouting 'anyone wanna buy a used car?'.

Please consider when posting to his list that you might be doing the same.
(Not directed at anyone specifically).

brucee




On 24 December 2013 13:49, Skip Tavakkolian skip.tavakkol...@gmail.comwrote:

 Please make sure to include tact sucks on the list.

  On Dec 23, 2013, at 4:57 PM, andrey mirtchovski mirtchov...@gmail.com
 wrote:
 
  I feel a community code of conduct doc forthcoming in this list's
 future.
 
  I'll copy/pasta the one from go-nuts, where the discussion surrounding
 it was very lively

Re: [9fans] Ideas from Plan-9

[Bruce Ellis]

GreenArrays rocks. I still have no idea what to with all the cores. I've
found that writing a go package that generates fun forth is fun.

brucee
On 17/12/2013 11:32 AM, Jeff Sickel j...@corpus-callosum.com wrote:


 On Dec 15, 2013, at 4:48 PM, Tristan 9p...@imu.li wrote:

  and then there's chuck moore.

 I’m still rooting for GreenArrays as there are a few projects
 where they chips would actually do well.  But now that they’re
 accepting bitcoin, who knows, who knows.

 -jas

Re: [9fans] music storage

[Bruce Ellis]

depends what you use to compressed them! i've seen megamachines...


On 10 December 2013 09:55, Skip Tavakkolian skip.tavakkol...@gmail.comwrote:

 how much storage do 10,000 Maniacs take?



 On Mon, Dec 9, 2013 at 2:51 PM, Conor Williams 
 conor.willi...@gmail.comwrote:

 just got 10,000 Maniacs from the library Blind man's zoo for free,
 ripped it to Mp3 and it only takes up about 60 MB... I have a nice 2
 computer network going about 100GB on each...


 On Mon, Dec 9, 2013 at 10:39 PM, erik quanstrom quans...@quanstro.netwrote:

 On Mon Dec  9 17:14:07 EST 2013, conor.willi...@gmail.com wrote:

  jees, i traded a bit of quality for space

 how little space / how much music do you have?

 - erik

Re: [9fans] music storage

[Bruce Ellis]

um. it was a joke...


On 10 December 2013 10:19, Conor Williams conor.willi...@gmail.com wrote:

  10,000 Maniac
 +  Ozzy Ozbourne
 
   10,001 Maniacs

 Blind Man's Zoo-MB
 01 Eat for Two.mp34.3MB
 02 Please Forgive Us.mp3--3.9MB
 03 The Big Parade.mp3-4.8MB
 04 Trouble Me.mp3-3.8MB
 05 You Happy Puppet.mp3---4.4MB
 06 Headstrong.mp3-5.4MB
 07 Poison in the Well.mp3-3.9MB
 08 Dust Bowl.mp3--5.3MB
 09 The Lion's Share.mp3---4.1MB
 10 Hateful Hate.mp3---6.2MB
 11 Jubilee.mp37.6MB
 --- 53.7MBMB



 On Mon, Dec 9, 2013 at 10:55 PM, Skip Tavakkolian 
 skip.tavakkol...@gmail.com wrote:

 how much storage do 10,000 Maniacs take?



 On Mon, Dec 9, 2013 at 2:51 PM, Conor Williams 
 conor.willi...@gmail.comwrote:

 just got 10,000 Maniacs from the library Blind man's zoo for free,
 ripped it to Mp3 and it only takes up about 60 MB... I have a nice 2
 computer network going about 100GB on each...


 On Mon, Dec 9, 2013 at 10:39 PM, erik quanstrom 
 quans...@quanstro.netwrote:

 On Mon Dec  9 17:14:07 EST 2013, conor.willi...@gmail.com wrote:

  jees, i traded a bit of quality for space

 how little space / how much music do you have?

 - erik

Re: [9fans] music storage

[Bruce Ellis]

Well there is some truth in all these emails. First let me say that no
recording studio records in mp3 and no studio software does unless you
really force it. Not even Garage Band - the baseline. (Note that I will
usually make a mp3 for my phone after a mix.)

That said the dudes compiling and selling CDs will grab the data in any
format and decode it and sell it.  Just 'cause you bought a CD doesn't mean
it was really uncompressed DDD. Certainly a worse story if you don't know
if it's pirated. How many CDs do you have with a hologram on them, Erik?

That said 9 out of 10 British housewives etc.

It is not too hard to tell and clearly Simon has the tools. I do. Just
checked out a suspect disk. Hmm profile is strongly correlated with 96kps.

brucee
On 10 Dec 2013 12:54, erik quanstrom quans...@quanstro.net wrote:

  I was not clear.
 
  If you download wav or raw pcm files via bittorrent et al the tel-l-tail

 that was the missing bit.  thanks!

 - erik

Re: [9fans] music storage

[Bruce Ellis]

good to hear. all of the major brands had holograms in 1998.

so the answer is?

brucee


On 10 December 2013 13:42, erik quanstrom quans...@quanstro.net wrote:

 On Mon Dec  9 21:23:18 EST 2013, bruce.el...@gmail.com wrote:

  Well there is some truth in all these emails. First let me say that no
  recording studio records in mp3 and no studio software does unless you
  really force it. Not even Garage Band - the baseline. (Note that I will
  usually make a mp3 for my phone after a mix.)
 
  That said the dudes compiling and selling CDs will grab the data in any
  format and decode it and sell it.  Just 'cause you bought a CD doesn't
 mean
  it was really uncompressed DDD. Certainly a worse story if you don't know
  if it's pirated. How many CDs do you have with a hologram on them, Erik?

 almost all my cds were bought first hand before 1998.  all
 came with proper packaging, and silkscreening on the front side.

 even so, as you point out, the quality does vary.  i find some remastered
 AAD or ADD disks to be of good quality.  listening to muddy waters,
 folk singer as i type.

  That said 9 out of 10 British housewives etc.
 
  It is not too hard to tell and clearly Simon has the tools. I do. Just
  checked out a suspect disk. Hmm profile is strongly correlated with
 96kps.

 very interesting.  time to do a little investigation.

 - erik

Re: [9fans] music storage

[Bruce Ellis]

Maybe he's lucky. I have a swag of such disks and 80% are very fine pirates.

brucee


On 10 December 2013 14:26, andrey mirtchovski mirtchov...@gmail.com wrote:

 offtopic at this point, but anyways: I'm willing to bet that at least
 a few pre-1998 cds from your collection were pirated copies from the
 factory in Stara Zagora in Bulgaria our little claim to fame from
 that period...

 http://goo.gl/8odvm1

Re: [9fans] music storage

[Bruce Ellis]

no simple answer. unusual compilations are obvious. a lot of classic rock
CDs aren't real. i have a handel messiah that swaers its real but it's
about 128kbs at best and statistically 14 bit.

brucee


On 10 December 2013 14:39, erik quanstrom quans...@quanstro.net wrote:

 On Mon Dec  9 22:15:18 EST 2013, bruce.el...@gmail.com wrote:

  good to hear. all of the major brands had holograms in 1998.

 proper packaging includes a hologram.  but clearly as andrey points out,
 that's probablly not proof that they're not junk.

  Maybe he's lucky. I have a swag of such disks and 80% are very fine
 pirates.

 so here's a question: was the pirating uniform?  that is, did top 100 cds
 get pirated at the same rate as say the top 2 - the top 100?

 - erik

Re: [9fans] Help with plumbing rules

[Bruce Ellis]

The diagnostic on the last line should be:

Unexpected End of File at EOF

That's the memorable diagnostic from a CDC compiler.

brucee


On 6 November 2013 17:42, 6o205z...@sneakemail.com wrote:

 I'm trying to create a plumbing rule so that I can right-click (in acme)
 on the diagnostic messages produced by Python and get the file opened with
 the appropriate line select.  Unfortunately my attempts so far have failed.

 Question 1: Is there an easy way to debug plumbing rules (I'm using
 plan9port on linux)?

 I started by looking at a couple of existing rules from $PLAN9/plumb/basic:

 # existing files tagged by line number:columnumber or
 linenumber.columnumber, twice, go to editor
 type is text
 data matches '([.a-zA-Z¡-￿0-9_/\-]*[a-zA-Z¡-￿0-9_/\-])':$
 twocolonaddr,$twocolonaddr
 arg isfile $1
 data set $file
 attr add addr=$2-#1+#$3,$4-#1+#$5
 plumb to edit
 plumb client $editor

 # existing files tagged by line number:columnumber or
 linenumber.columnumber, twice, go to editor
 type is text
 data matches '([.a-zA-Z¡-￿0-9_/\-]*[a-zA-Z¡-￿0-9_/\-])':$
 twocolonaddr
 arg isfile $1
 data set $file
 attr add addr=$2-#1+#$3
 plumb to edit
 plumb client $editor

 After reading http://plan9.bell-labs.com/sys/doc/plumb.pdf, I think I
 understand these rules except for the line
 data set $file

 Question2: What does that line do?  What is $file?

 Since the Python 2.7 diagnostic messages look like

 File /home/pcanning/src/python/test/test_cli.py, line 91, in
 test_interactive_mode

 I created the following rule that attempts to match the test from File
 to line 91, and send plumbing message to edit (acme).

 # Python (2.7) error messages
 type is text
 data matches File ([.a-zA-Z¡-￿0-9_/\-]*[a-zA-Z¡-￿0-9_/\-]), line
 ([0-9]+)
 arg isfile $1
 data set $1
 attr add addr=$2
 plumb to edit
 plumb client $editor

 Question 3: How do I change this rule to make acme open
 /home/pcanning/src/python/test/test_cli.py and select line 91 (in the
 example above)?

 thanks,
 Peter Canning

 PS: Once I get this working I'll tackle the diagnostic messages I get when
 compiling Java code using maven (not my choice).  They look like
 [error] /home/pcanning/src/java/test/PerfTest.java:[66,1] error: reached
 end of file while parsing

Re: [9fans] userspace semlocks

[Bruce Ellis]

you are missing the reason. read the paper.

brucee


On 22 September 2013 12:55, erik quanstrom quans...@quanstro.net wrote:

 when i measure chan send performance with the attached program with
 the semaphore locks that have been made the default for sources and
 with the old locks, the old locks surprisingly outperform the new ones
 by a large margin.

 the test is let O be the number of buffers in the channel, and M be
 the number of sending procs, then cycles is the number of machine
 cycles required to send 121 messages per proc, and receive them
 on a single listener.

 on my machine, i get the following raw numbers (averaged over a few tries):

 new 1.84e9 cycles   O=10M=1
 old 1.10e9

 new 4.61e9  O=0 M=1
 old 4.38e9

 new 1.55e10 O=10M=8
 old 2.74e10

 new 3.64e10 O=0 M=8
 old 5.14e10

 am i doing something fundamental wrong, or are the new locks substantially
 slower than the old ones?

 - erik

Re: [9fans] Closed nix development is an insult

[Bruce Ellis]

Why?

Why the angst? Nix is cool. And the nonexistent demons will release
something cool.

Now getting back to the lost v10 - which I think is a much more interesting
topic. (There work is much more interesting, I guess mine is challenging).

I have to go to Canberra to sort this out. Got the microvax in a Kombi and
we are at Goulburn, half way there.

Perfect time to do the right thing, with a grin. Newly elected govt.

You want it, you pay the freight, and maybe something to University of
Madrid - it's nice there..

brucsee




On 8 September 2013 10:19, Charles Forsyth charles.fors...@gmail.comwrote:


 On 8 September 2013 00:47, Matthew Veety mve...@gmail.com wrote:

 the fact that its secret


 It isn't really secret. We went back more than a few steps earlier in the
 year, which is one reason it would
 not be useful at all in its current state. At the moment, it is not, by
 any means, a series of incremental improvements
 that could simply be checked in to hg or published on a 9p server. At
 times it can go many days
 before it can even be recompiled, let alone run, because old fundamental
 structures have
 been re-organised. Large chunks are in flux. Although Nemo was working
 steadily
 away, after some initial work, I was bound up with another project (that
 has nearly finished),
 which meant I couldn't even review and consider some of the changes until
 early August.
 Then there was an August break, although I did manage to do some work on
 it of interest to me.
 Meanwhile, the other project I mentioned has changed my priorities, so I
 anticipate more churn.

Re: [9fans] Closed nix development is an insult

[Bruce Ellis]

I'm not sure how to negotiate this. Tiger says:

1) Go back to 1988.
2) Apply for a license.
3) Run it/enjoy it.
4) Stop being a dick

brucee


On 7 September 2013 23:21, Kurt H Maier k...@sciops.net wrote:

 Quoting Bruce Ellis bruce.el...@gmail.com:

  I was disturbed by the claim that v10 had been lost because of bullshit,
 but said nothing.

 If indeed someone has lost their v10 I can replace it. If you are in
 australia it's easy. Contact me with the details of your import license
 and
 I will arrange for a copy on TK50 for you.


 Sure!  Where do I get a license?



  I'm not allowed to
 export/sell/destroy it so I'm stuck with it. Nearly all of cmd is on the
 web anyway!


 I don't suppose you have a url -- or you have one, but it's not ready for
 Put yet.  Well, whenever you feel like sharing it with the world, let us
 know.


  And a complete rack of plan9 servers is a lot quieter, faster, and uses
 lest power than my Vax.


 Are you seriously suggesting there is interest in acquiring v10 for
 practical purposes?  If there is v10 in production I'd love to know about
 it; that would be an interesting envinronment I'd want to learn more about.


  But I digress, voting nemo Plan9 innovator of the month. Shoot me.


 In that case, I'm voting Stephanie Rawlings-Blake, mayor of Baltimore, as
 the Plan9 innovator of the month.

 As far as you know.

 khm

Re: [9fans] Closed nix development is an insult

[Bruce Ellis]

Not sure I believe you. Also. Stephen Jones runs v10 in Seattle. You may be
able to bribe him.

The manifest on the door of my vax may also help.

Attn:
G.R.Emlin
Room 2C501
600 Mountain Ave
Murray Hill, NJ 07974

You'll also need a mux terminal or 16. I have a Blit and a 5630. Stephen
has 5620s.

brucee


On 7 September 2013 23:33, Kurt H Maier k...@sciops.net wrote:

 Quoting Bruce Ellis bruce.el...@gmail.com:

  I'm not sure how to negotiate this. Tiger says:

 1) Go back to 1988.
 2) Apply for a license.
 3) Run it/enjoy it.
 4) Stop being a dick

 brucee



 I agree to these terms.  As soon as I can go back to 1988, I'll stop being
 a dick.

 khm

Re: [9fans] Closed nix development is an insult

[Bruce Ellis]

Perhaps by being qualified and having a substantial body of published
research and teaching under your belt.

Or out-source it.

brucee


On 8 September 2013 00:58, Anthony Sorace a...@9srv.net wrote:

  I believe the rules are different when the work is research, sponsored
  by public money. People are getting research grants to work on nix.
 
  who is getting grants to work on nix?

 And how do I get in on that?

 Someone tell me how to get money for working on nix and this thread
 becomes useful.

 Anthony

Re: [9fans] Closed nix development is an insult

[Bruce Ellis]

I don't really understand this thread. I thought it was a stupid flame war,
in which case I can only say that I miss Boyd calling a spade a fucking
shovel.

I was disturbed by the claim that v10 had been lost because of bullshit,
but said nothing.

If indeed someone has lost their v10 I can replace it. If you are in
australia it's easy. Contact me with the details of your import license and
I will arrange for a copy on TK50 for you. I'm not allowed to
export/sell/destroy it so I'm stuck with it. Nearly all of cmd is on the
web anyway!

And a complete rack of plan9 servers is a lot quieter, faster, and uses
lest power than my Vax.

But I digress, voting nemo Plan9 innovator of the month. Shoot me.

brucee


On 7 September 2013 14:06, Devon H. O'Dell devon.od...@gmail.com wrote:

 2013/9/6 erik quanstrom quans...@quanstro.net:
   I created it I do what I want with it.
 
  I believe the rules are different when the work is research, sponsored
  by public money. People are getting research grants to work on nix.
 
  who is getting grants to work on nix?
 
   as far as i know, there is no private nix development going on
 
  Who are you kidding. This is the norm around here. I have been
  personally invited in multiple private Plan 9-related projects by some
  of the few proemiment members of this community that still write code.
  This has always been the norm; read 15 year old 9fans posts and find
  that the same attitude (and complaints) prevail.
 
  i'm not sure if you're complaining or bragging.
 
  but anyway, we're talking about current nix (which i take to mean
  current 64-bit intel/amd development of any sort).
 
  so have you been invited to participate in private nix development?

 I've been invited. I'm too busy, and I feel like a dick, because I
 think it'd be a lot of fun. I'm happy that people are contributing.

 But I do wish that this list and the software produced by the people
 on it was more transparent. I'm sure nobody likes bitbucket or github
 here, but I'm pretty sure everyone would be happy with a 9p mount of
 ongoing development. It's amazing what commented changesets do for
 software engineering in organizations (public or private) to quell
 worries about those projects.

 --dho

  - erik
 

Re: [9fans] Acme win and 75+ character Send commands

[Bruce Ellis]

just don't forget to unset nonomatch


On 6 September 2013 14:10, Rob Pike robp...@gmail.com wrote:

 You give a shell command the flag -X to turn on X, so +X to turn off X
 makes sense in a negative true kinda way.

 -rob

Re: [9fans] libbio: Bgetle2(), Bgetle4(), Bputle2() and Bputle4()

[Bruce Ellis]

do it


On 2 September 2013 15:24, lu...@proxima.alt.za wrote:

 The Go distribution has these new functions which are not present in
 the Plan 9 library.  They seem to fit in libbio harmlessly, so I just
 added them in, but in the past an analogous change was rejected (the
 details escape me, but it was a long time ago).

 Should I, or should I not submit a patch?  And if I do, should I
 include the be (I'm sure le means little endian) varieties?

 ++L

 PS: There are also capitalised macros in bio.h, they seem similarly
 harmless.

Re: [9fans] java on dis

[Bruce Ellis]

when this thread calms down a bit i'll post some suggestions and hopefully
helpful hints - one of which is that there will be tears.

i'll respond to off list technical questions.

brucee


On 29 April 2013 18:07, Sergey Zhilkin szhil...@gmail.com wrote:

 There is http://www.vitanuova.com/dist/java.tgz - old java translating
 software. It's not legaly free.
 I think, Charles knows more :)


 2013/4/29 Marc Chantreux kha...@phear.org

 hello,

 On Sun, Apr 28, 2013 at 11:21:21AM -0400, OrangeCalx01 wrote:
  A machine implementing a virtual machine implementing a virtual
 machine? Oh
  the latency! Lol. Why not integrate the jvm itself into dis?

 I really don't know about virtual machines and maybe it's a stupid
 question but i'm really currious about it and i really trust the plan9
 expertise: why not port inferno on top of the jvm? is this a technical
 nonsense? is there some performance/ressources issue or is it just an NIH
 manifestation?

 regards




 --
 С наилучшими пожеланиями
 Жилкин Сергей
 With best regards
 Zhilkin Sergey

Re: [9fans] [GSoC] sorry for the last email

[Bruce Ellis]

I had to get an import license for my Blit. It's very nice. I'm still not
sure if I can dispose of it. It only lasted 15 years in Bondi heat/salt.
Gsoc project: fix it - connect it to the bunny. Extra credit: find out if I
can give it to you.

brucee


On 24 April 2013 20:20, Antonio Barrones antonio@gmail.com wrote:

  Politics...
 
 residents and/or nationals of Iran, Syria, Cuba, Sudan, North Korea
 and Myanmar (Burma), with whom we are prohibited by U.S. law from
 engaging in commerce, are ineligible to participate
 
 
 http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/document/show/gsoc_program/google/gsoc2013
 /help_page#4._Who_is_not_eligible_to_participate_as
 
 sad but true.

 In the ftp mirrors of NetBSD, they had a similar restriction for
 cryptographic software: http://www.netbsd.org/about/crypto-export.html
 250-EXPORT NOTICE

  Please note that portions of this FTP site contain cryptographic
  software controlled under the Export Administration Regulations (EAR).

  None of this software may be downloaded or otherwise exported or
  re-exported into (or to a national or resident of) Cuba, Iran, Libya,
  Sudan, North Korea, Syria or any other country to which the U.S. has
  embargoed goods.

  By downloading or using said software, you are agreeing to the
  foregoing and you are representing and warranting that you are not
  located in, under the control of, or a national or resident of any
  such country or on any such list.
 250 CWD command successful

 You can not travel to Cuba with your laptop if you have NetBSD installed.
 I don't know the case of Plan9 but I guess it is similar, but I really
 don't know.

 Antonio

Re: [9fans] Google IO

[Bruce Ellis]

that's a quorum.


On 22 April 2013 18:58, Nick Owens misch...@offblast.org wrote:

 On Saturday, April 20, 2013 9:16:28 PM UTC-7, Bruce Ellis wrote:
  Any 9 dudes going to IO in SFO real soon? I will be around abouts so may
 be good for an informal IWP9 beer and loud loud music.
 
 
  brucee

 I'd be interested in meeting over a beer in SF. No IO for me.

[9fans] Google IO

[Bruce Ellis]

Any 9 dudes going to IO in SFO real soon? I will be around abouts so may be
good for an informal IWP9 beer and loud loud music.

brucee

Re: [9fans] gcc not an option for Plan9

[Bruce Ellis]

I recall one guy at the labs(!) who would ruthlessly avoid printf because
it dragged in too much stuff. I think he ran out of people to argue with 30
years ago.
On 24 Mar 2013 10:47, andrey mirtchovski mirtchov...@gmail.com wrote:

  If you want real programs which are bigger that I (we) actually use that
 will
  be (much) bigger in go:
 
  ls, cp rm mv cat acid, I can go on.
 
  Small programs are useful and important.

 here's a representative set. the programs are identical in behaviour
 and arguments to the Plan 9 set. the size is as reported by du, in
 kilobytes:

 1456 ./date/date
 1460 ./cat/cat
 1564 ./cleanname/cleanname
 1564 ./tee/tee
 1736 ./echo/echo
 1764 ./cp/cp
 1772 ./uniq/uniq
 1780 ./cmp/cmp
 1780 ./freq/freq
 1780 ./wc/wc
 1792 ./comm/comm

  binaries are bigger and for example replacing the minimal sets of
 commands of
  the system, this can make the
  minimal system at least 5 times bigger easy.

 if that was a real issue you were trying to solve there are things you
 can do to help yourself. most notably sticking everything in a single
 binary and invoking the right function based on your argv0. it took me
 less than 15 minutes to convert the above code to work as a single
 binary and most of that was in handling clashing flags (it would've
 been a non-issue if I had used flagsets when writing the original
 programs). size at the very end:

 $ date  test.txt
 $ ln -s $GOPATH/bin/all cat
 $ ln -s $GOPATH/bin/all wc
 $ ./cat test.txt
 Sat Mar 23 17:32:42 MDT 2013
 $ ./wc test.txt
   1   6  29 test.txt
 $ du -k $GOPATH/bin/all
 1888 /Users/andrey/bin/all

 the size of the original binaries on plan9 is 588k. what was a factor
 of 30 is now a factor of 3. all tests still pass and it took less time
 to complete than writing this email.

 there's an even better solution, but it won't work on plan9 because
 the go tool is slow there :)

Re: [9fans] What's up with $home? And a security question.

[Bruce Ellis]

drink


On 24 February 2013 16:20, Stuart Morrow morrow.stu...@googlemail.comwrote:

 So I read in New Scientist one time that being awake for more than a
 certain amount of hours is the same as being lightly drunk.

 I shouldn't be on the Internet at all really right now.

Re: [9fans] What's up with $home? And a security question.

[Bruce Ellis]

i was thinkimg more of combating lack of sleep by using strongdrink(3) -
which eventually calls sleep(2). its on the strchr(3) page just before
strumpet.

Re: [9fans] going too far?

[Bruce Ellis]

i could only presume that the #includes are expected to be in the first
block.


On 19 February 2013 20:32, Charles Forsyth charles.fors...@gmail.comwrote:


 On 18 February 2013 19:23, andrey mirtchovski mirtchov...@gmail.comwrote:

 sorry, not all source files, just the 'import' section.


 I could see the relevance of reading the contents 7 times (since there
 were separate go clean requests), but
 it wasn't clear to me why it was apparently reading 4k from each file in
 the C source to all the programs in the compiler suites,
 under src/cmd.

Re: [9fans] Do plan9 users know/use acme?

[Bruce Ellis]

a simple web search, or the wiki, has more than enough.


On 18 February 2013 20:59, avoid9...@gmail.com wrote:

 And if so have they analysed WHY they like it?

 How mature [not too problematic for a plan9 beginner] is the rPi
 installation?

 ==TIA

Re: [9fans] a disk filesystem for both Plan 9 and Linux?

[Bruce Ellis]

I noticed the other day that I was offered exFAT when formatting a 2T drive
on windows 7. I know nothing about it except the sample space of reading
one page on the web. Any insights? Is this FAT48 or something newish and
compatible in some transfinite sense.

brucee


On 12 January 2013 10:58, John Floren j...@jfloren.net wrote:

 On Fri, Jan 11, 2013 at 3:52 PM,  cinap_len...@gmx.de wrote:
  dossrv always had fat32 support. you'r probably refering to disk/format,
  9bootfat and pbs which do support fat32 now in 9front.
 
  --
  cinap
 

 Thanks, you're entirely right, I was thinking of disk/format.

 john




-- 
Don't meddle in the mouth -- MVS (0416935147, +1-513-3BRUCEE)

Re: [9fans] go forth and ulong no more!

[Bruce Ellis]

i think that go's scalar types would work better. also usize is  a bit
dicky.

brucee
On Nov 22, 2012 12:23 PM, erik quanstrom quans...@quanstro.net wrote:

 On Wed Nov 21 19:19:21 EST 2012, benave...@gmail.com wrote:
  hola,
 
  usize, really?
 
  any reason not use this opportunity to join the world and use inttypes.h
 or stdint.h format?

 have you read the opengroup pubs?


 http://pubs.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/007904975/basedefs/stdint.h.html

 http://pubs.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/009604599/basedefs/inttypes.h.html

 i don't see any advantage to using whatever types these guys are using.
 when porting things from plan 9, it's good to have different type names.
 the assumptions of various systems differ.  when porting things to plan 9,
 you're likely going to be using ape anyway.

 these headers are missing a type representing physical memory, and Rune.
 no, i'm never going to consider using wchar_t instead.

 yet they have types we do not want such as int_{least,fast} and int_max_t.
 they seem to be a trap set by greybeards for unsuspecting young
 programmers.
 one could hold this kind of thing up as a reason that c is an old and
 broken language.

 and then there's the printf macros.  oh, joy.

 i'm sure that others could back this up with more inteligent reasoning.
  i'm just
 prone to rant (had you noticed) when i see some of this stuff.

 - erik

Re: [9fans] go forth and ulong no more!

[Bruce Ellis]

uintptr for size_t.

brucee
On Nov 22, 2012 1:10 PM, Dan Cross cro...@gmail.com wrote:

 I agree with brucee here about the Go type names: I'd rather see uint64,
 int64, uint32, int32, etc.

 usize doesn't bother me much.  New C programmers are often confused by
 size_t being unsigned (even experienced ones at times); this makes it clear.


 On Wed, Nov 21, 2012 at 8:35 PM, Bruce Ellis bruce.el...@gmail.comwrote:

 i think that go's scalar types would work better. also usize is  a bit
 dicky.

 brucee
 On Nov 22, 2012 12:23 PM, erik quanstrom quans...@quanstro.net wrote:

 On Wed Nov 21 19:19:21 EST 2012, benave...@gmail.com wrote:
  hola,
 
  usize, really?
 
  any reason not use this opportunity to join the world and use
 inttypes.h or stdint.h format?

 have you read the opengroup pubs?


 http://pubs.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/007904975/basedefs/stdint.h.html

 http://pubs.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/009604599/basedefs/inttypes.h.html

 i don't see any advantage to using whatever types these guys are using.
 when porting things from plan 9, it's good to have different type names.
 the assumptions of various systems differ.  when porting things to plan
 9,
 you're likely going to be using ape anyway.

 these headers are missing a type representing physical memory, and Rune.
 no, i'm never going to consider using wchar_t instead.

 yet they have types we do not want such as int_{least,fast} and
 int_max_t.
 they seem to be a trap set by greybeards for unsuspecting young
 programmers.
 one could hold this kind of thing up as a reason that c is an old and
 broken language.

 and then there's the printf macros.  oh, joy.

 i'm sure that others could back this up with more inteligent reasoning.
  i'm just
 prone to rant (had you noticed) when i see some of this stuff.

 - erik

Re: [9fans] go forth and ulong no more!

[Bruce Ellis]

heads up! uintptr in all over the go packages because it is right. i'd like
an example of where usize wins, as it has to be same as uintptr. what is
sizeof(x)?

struct {
char stuff[8 * GB];
} x;

quite a reasonable but rookie decl in 64 bit land.

brucee


On 22 November 2012 13:35, Charles Forsyth charles.fors...@gmail.comwrote:

 I meant, rarely used, and not at all outside the kernel.
 Inside that kernel it's quite useful.

 On 22 November 2012 02:33, Charles Forsyth charles.fors...@gmail.com
 wrote:
  [uintmem as a size] and of little use.




-- 
Don't meddle in the mouth -- MVS (0416935147, +1-513-3BRUCEE)

Re: [9fans] p9p backspace/delete in osx

[Bruce Ellis]

hit with brick - fixed! - unknown source

On 25 September 2012 21:04, Kurt H Maier kh...@intma.in wrote:
 On Tue, Sep 25, 2012 at 08:52:40AM +, Christopher Hobbs wrote:
 Being that macs don't have a proper delete key, how can I get delete
 behavior to kill a program in rc short of slapping a real keyboard
 on this machine?

 delete to kill a program is a function of rio/9term/acme, not a function
 of rc.

Re: [9fans] carriage returns in 9term and acme

[Bruce Ellis]

Brilliant! Write a program because the router is stupid. Anything else
you would like me to write while I'm at it?

brucee

On 13 September 2012 00:30, Matthew Veety mve...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Sep 12, 2012 12:48 AM, Bruce Ellis bruce.el...@gmail.com wrote:

 my adsl router has a telnet interface that won't dumb down (i.e. be
 sensible). it is more than tedious watching it try to backspace over
 stuff and move the cursor about. hey guys, don't do that crap!

 You can make a telnet client that dumbs down the stream to your terminal.
 Telnet is trivial to implement.

 --
 Veety



-- 
Don't meddle in the mouth -- MVS (0416935147, +1-513-3BRUCEE)

Re: [9fans] carriage returns in 9term and acme

[Bruce Ellis]

Indeed. Though I'm waiting for the trivial implementation that does
something imaginative with the batshit practice of overwriting lines
using CR without LF.

brucee

On 13 September 2012 10:02, Charles Forsyth charles.fors...@gmail.com wrote:
 That's a bit elaborate. vt(1) might be easier.


 On 12 September 2012 15:30, Matthew Veety mve...@gmail.com wrote:

 You can make a telnet client that dumbs down the stream to your terminal.
 Telnet is trivial to implement.

Re: [9fans] carriage returns in 9term and acme

[Bruce Ellis]

Perhaps decwriter(1) should be on someone's list. Then we can all
not-sleep at night. And if things are running too fast the 110 baud
switch could be used.

brucee

On 13 September 2012 10:15, erik quanstrom quans...@quanstro.net wrote:
 On Wed Sep 12 20:13:38 EDT 2012, skip.tavakkol...@gmail.com wrote:
 without a LF how will the sprockets pulling the screen up vt(1) get 
 activated?

 On Wed, Sep 12, 2012 at 5:07 PM, Bruce Ellis bruce.el...@gmail.com wrote:
  Indeed. Though I'm waiting for the trivial implementation that does
  something imaginative with the batshit practice of overwriting lines
  using CR without LF.

 now that you mention it, vt is missing the flyback transformer whine.  you
 should be able to *hear* what's displayed.

 - erik

Re: [9fans] carriage returns in 9term and acme

[Bruce Ellis]

my adsl router has a telnet interface that won't dumb down (i.e. be
sensible). it is more than tedious watching it try to backspace over
stuff and move the cursor about. hey guys, don't do that crap!

On 12 September 2012 14:06,  cinap_len...@gmx.de wrote:
 no. changing the font also wont get rid of the ansi escape
 codes. plan9 text console is not a tty. read the recent
 (ssh) posts on this mailinglist as it touches the topic
 of chaning the terminal output to something acme/plan9
 can handle.

 --
 cinap

Re: [9fans] spim

[Bruce Ellis]

beware... they came in flavours, some of which designed to stop fun.

mine still spims fine after a decade. not sure why i have an unopened spare.

bucee

On 6 September 2012 21:33, Aram Hăvărneanu ara...@mgk.ro wrote:
 Sorry, typo - should be WRT54G

 Interesting, I have that router but wanted for some time to replace it
 with something more modern. Now I have an added incentive to do so.

 --
 Aram Hăvărneanu

Re: [9fans] finally success with pentium d dualcore D945PLrn board

[Bruce Ellis]

is that machine 20 years old yet?

On 29 August 2012 11:26, erik quanstrom quans...@quanstro.net wrote:
 On Tue Aug 28 19:03:05 EDT 2012, cinap_len...@gmx.de wrote:
 this machine works now in mp mode (after 4 years) with
 9front's acpi implementation.

 http://9fans.net/archive/2008/02/671

 if there is one, can you dump the table and send it to me?
 i'm just curious how it is messed up.  and also curious if using
 a default i/o apic mapping would rescue your box without
 acpi.

 - erik

Re: [9fans] higher-end compute server recommendations?

[Bruce Ellis]

Watch out for the bunnies!

On 25 July 2012 15:09, John Floren j...@jfloren.net wrote:
 On Tue, Jul 24, 2012 at 9:58 PM, erik quanstrom quans...@quanstro.net wrote:
 On Wed Jul 25 00:45:01 EDT 2012, j...@jfloren.net wrote:
 We've got some budget left for hardware, so I'm looking for a server
 suitable for running Plan 9, preferably as good as I can get for about
 $3000-5000. Buying non-Thinkpad Plan 9 hardware is kind of a
 crapshoot, and this isn't just some $100 Atom system, so if any of you
 are running something along these lines, please let me know. I'd most
 like to see lots of cores and lots of RAM, I don't even want storage
 (we've got other methods for storage).

 hey, john, i've had incredible luck with intel servers from supermicro
 for general beat-about servers.

 just as a quick suggestion, i'd look at this server here.

 http://www.supermicro.com/products/system/1U/6017/SYS-6017R-WRF.cfm

 with 8-core socket-r cpus, you can have 32 cores and 128gb of memory
 without stretching the budget too much.  the intel i350 nics work fine,
 but for something that hot, i'd get a myircom or intel 10gbe adapter.

 this was just whatever came up in 5 minutes.  you might want to look
 at this page here for more options

 http://www.supermicro.com/products/nfo/Xeon_X9_E5.cfm?pg=SS

 acmemicro.com (fitting, no?) should have the full range of stuff.

 - erik

 Thanks for the tip; I just looked at acmemicro and spec'd out a
 decent-looking 16-core system with 64 GB of RAM for about $4800, so
 I'll probably end up doing something like that.



 john

Re: [9fans] Heresy alert, Zerox - Clone

[Bruce Ellis]

shut up and back to work. nothing to see here.

On 3 June 2012 11:53, Connor Lane Smith c...@lubutu.com wrote:
 On 3 June 2012 02:40, Stephen Wiley swwi...@gmail.com wrote:
 One thing that I can see is that the 40 billion windows you open are all
 grouped together and don't get in your way when using other apps. (One of
 the things I like about osx is that it does that with all the apps)

 Though I guess you could script rio to group things with similar labels
 together...

 I remember reading this being cited as one of the reasons why sam's
 windows within a window flayer approach is preferred amongst long
 time users. In my opinion, if the window manager is having difficulty
 managing windows, it isn't doing a very good job. Instead of resorting
 to handling windowing within each and every application, we ought to
 treat the source of the problem. That may be by making rio group
 similar labels, but I'm inclined to think that a canal -- a tiling
 window manager, effectively -- would be a better approach in the long
 run.

 cls




-- 
Don't meddle in the mouth -- MVS (0416935147, +1-513-3BRUCEE)

Re: [9fans] Reading gmail

[Bruce Ellis]

out of interest does gmail do something useful when presenting mail
that is labeled?

brucee

On 20 May 2012 23:02, erik quanstrom quans...@quanstro.net wrote:
 Mailboxes are complicated. I only have three: Inbox, Sent, and Trash.

 [citation needed].

 i didn't say the mailbox was owned by me.  our system has
 ~1.2m messages in ~1k folders spread among ~100 users.

 i would say to claim that mailboxes are complicated you'd need to also
 claim that file and directories are complicated.  with nupas, if you have
 two mail boxes and you want to combine them, you simply cp b/* a;
 rm -r b.  or in ned,
        g/./s a
        g/./d

 - erik




-- 
Don't meddle in the mouth -- MVS (0416935147, +1-513-3BRUCEE)

Re: [9fans] Thinkpad T61 Installation Experience

[Bruce Ellis]

a friend gave me a T61 and the bell-labs iso installed just fine. i
can't recall using any tricks, pretty much however the bios was
configured - i did it in the pub.

brucee

On 16 May 2012 22:24, Burton Samograd burton.samog...@gmail.com wrote:
 I got my Thinkpad T61 last night and installation was somewhat
 successful but not without problems:

 - the main thing was to set the SATA controller to 'Compatibility'
 mode.  9front would find the disk
  and install correctly but would get stuck after the pbs if this was
 not set.  The bell labs iso would
  boot but not find the disk leading to some confusion when I didn't
 notice it was trying to partition
  the install CD during installation

 - after setting to Compatibility mode the Bell Labs iso install would
 go along well until it was trying
  to copydist which then was either completely failing or going
 incredibly slow; I waited at least 15
  minutes during this process and it was at around 3% before I gave
 up.  The cd would spin up and
  down but it really didn't seem to be copying anything at all or at
 least nothing very quickly.

 - the middle mouse button doesn't work when using ps2intellimouse or ps2

 - graphics works great at native 1280x800x16 resolution

 - wired networking works good

 So, in the end I got 9front installed but now the bell labs wiki isn't
 very helpful since so much has
 changed, with the first being how to add a new user among other
 things.  To be honest, I'd rather
 be using the Bell Labs iso so if anybody could give a suggestion on
 how to get that working I'd
 appreciate it.

 --
 Burton Samograd




-- 
Don't meddle in the mouth -- MVS (0416935147, +1-513-3BRUCEE)

Re: [9fans] Governance question???

[Bruce Ellis]

Good taste is its own reward.

On 14 May 2012 20:32, Francisco J Ballesteros n...@lsub.org wrote:

 On May 14, 2012, at 12:14 PM, IainWS wrote:

 Would
 I be wrong in saying there are four dictators?

 Yes, there's just good taste :)

Re: [9fans] Governance question???

[Bruce Ellis]

Ah - Bund Deutscher Fußball-Lehrer - of course!

Re: [9fans] integer width on AMD64

[Bruce Ellis]

the consensus at the sunshine club is that to take advantage of the
wasted bits in a 64 bit pointer you should RENT THEM OUT!

brucee
-- 
Don't meddle in the mouth -- MVS (0416935147, +1-513-3BRUCEE)

Re: [9fans] nice terminal...

[Bruce Ellis]

John Connor uses his 26th century technology to travel back in time,
insisting that Sarah's destiny will be thwarted if she does not take
the errata to the desert. They blow things up - not many dead. Sarah
latches onto a Cyborg open wifi and summons - a sequel.

On 23 April 2012 09:53, Joseph Stewart joseph.stew...@gmail.com wrote:
 The whole Broadcom licensing thing is a major pain at my current job
 (although my overlords probably have equally painful legal shackles).

 Not being able to see data sheets is pretty lame.

 -joe


 On Mon, Apr 23, 2012 at 8:22 AM, Strake strake...@gmail.com wrote:

 On 22/04/2012, Jeff Sickel j...@corpus-callosum.com wrote:
  Sign me up as a reviewer for your next theatrical production.  A little
  radio, streaming audio, or even a youtube screening will suffice.
 
  On Apr 22, 2012, at 11:22 AM, Charles Forsyth wrote:
 
  I always hope to see things like this appearing as the McGuffin in
  films:
  The Broadcom Errata
  (``Look! I've decoded the cryptogram in the KR Code. It seems to give
  the
  location of a Broadcom data sheet.
  We thought they'd all been lost or destroyed!'' ``If it also has the
  errata, it would be priceless! That explains why they
  had to kill Fletcher to shut up his open source project.)

 I hope that 9fans will get the casting call.





-- 
Don't meddle in the mouth -- MVS (0416935147, +1-513-3BRUCEE)

Re: [9fans] who would have guessed.

[Bruce Ellis]

dinner time, hold on while i grep my desk for my car keys - ken anon

On 31 March 2012 00:13, erik quanstrom quans...@quanstro.net wrote:
 btw., the POSIX -q option to grep is needed only on non-POSIX systems, that 
 do
 not provide /dev/null, right?

 grep(1) has a -s option.  this is obviously useful because for
 large files with early matches, most of the file need not be read.

 - erik




-- 
Don't meddle in the mouth -- MVS (0416935147, +1-513-3BRUCEE)

Re: [9fans] SSHv2

[Bruce Ellis]

ha ha, the bunny shakes his tail. i don't want daily updates - like
openssl or NO SALE.

seriously, someone had to do it and not a gsoc kid thank dog.

brucee

On 30 March 2012 12:26,  cinap_len...@gmx.de wrote:
 congratulations! :)

 --
 cinap


-- 
Don't meddle in the mouth -- MVS (0416935147, +1-513-3BRUCEE)

[9fans] who would have guessed.

[Bruce Ellis]

7th Edition Unix grep did not conform to POSIX -- somewhere in gnudoc.

-- 
Don't meddle in the mouth -- MVS (0416935147, +1-513-3BRUCEE)

Re: [9fans] Plan 9 rejected from GSoC 2012

[Bruce Ellis]

http://www.chunder.com/text/dead.html

On 20 March 2012 19:25, Paschke Christoph c.pasc...@me.com wrote:
 In 3 weeks I need work together with Italians because of a machine control 
 and the optimization system behind.
 It's already difficult to work together and you can imagine English is 
 already a good way communication works.
 Although, in real, it is still difficult to understand the italian english 
 and probably same with me that the italians understand my german english.
 French and Swiss boarders are just some km away ... This multinational mix is 
 a problem in EU.

 And this not only means the language, it also means so much other things. For 
 example, the culture differences and problems with history.
 So, I remember some years ago, I had to work together with polish people at a 
 project. I speak russian and therefore I starting to speak with them russian 
 what they can understand very well. They told me: What you speak russian to 
 us, we not living in soviet union anymore. And I answered: You can speak 
 German? NO! What you expect me to speak english, we not living in USA the 
 same. And such is ONLY an example of the intercultural problems because for 
 example the polish people living historically between the hate to russians 
 and the hate to the germans. And if you need work together such way, can be 
 very exhausting and many projects fails.

 But this is ONLY another example. It becomes also with knowledge very 
 confusing. So, you cannot expect to have one standard to work on. One do such 
 way, other do other way. One knows this way, other knows other way. EU is 
 like the babel tower. And I think that other QUITE homogenous nations like 
 USA cannot understand that chaos.

 If you buy all you need from your own's company's nation like in former times 
 this is no problem.
 But if nations working together in such small scale as it becomes now more 
 and more reality, it is difficult in many cases.

 And in this way, I already get the feeling that the EU-project behind the 
 Mini-X is a trial to a machine-control-fundamental that can be quite unique 
 over Europe once a day.
 How much this is real, how much this will be, who knows? Maybe if Mini-X 
 evolves, the governmental offers of EU will dictate Mini-X as the standard 
 that need be fulfilled. I think in US it was similar procedure with Ada 
 programing language and military hardware etc.

 I can imagine this is the background of the Mini-X project. Why not Linux? 
 Probably because it is already to much chaos and you cannot come back to the 
 fundamentals anymore that you can expect each nation in EU to get learned, 
 understood ... Coming back to a structured base that also is planed to get 
 teached in schools is maybe the way to solve this problem.

 But what I speak about Mini-X so much in Plan 9 forum? I got lost a little 
 bit in thoughts about it because of the GSoC and EU support for it. So, in 
 real we speak about Plan 9 here, I know! Therefore last part from me about 
 that comparative issue. Nobody knows how things will come. If people would 
 know, probably Plan 9 would be the follower of Unix, but it didn't come that 
 way!

 Am 20.03.2012 um 00:24 schrieb Bruce Ellis:

 Even Shaney is having trouble with these fish of the trees, tho he
 would like to borrow Most cases EU does central shit.

 brucee

 On 20 March 2012 10:07, Charles Forsyth charles.fors...@gmail.com wrote:
 http://crave.cnet.co.uk/gadgets/plug-versus-plug-49303764/


 On 19 March 2012 22:22, andrey mirtchovski mirtchov...@gmail.com wrote:

 damn electric sockets! *shakes fist of impotent rage*





 --
 Don't meddle in the mouth -- MVS (0416935147, +1-513-3BRUCEE)






-- 
Don't meddle in the mouth -- MVS (0416935147, +1-513-3BRUCEE)

Re: [9fans] Plan 9 rejected from GSoC 2012

[Bruce Ellis]

Even Shaney is having trouble with these fish of the trees, tho he
would like to borrow Most cases EU does central shit.

brucee

On 20 March 2012 10:07, Charles Forsyth charles.fors...@gmail.com wrote:
 http://crave.cnet.co.uk/gadgets/plug-versus-plug-49303764/


 On 19 March 2012 22:22, andrey mirtchovski mirtchov...@gmail.com wrote:

 damn electric sockets! *shakes fist of impotent rage*





-- 
Don't meddle in the mouth -- MVS (0416935147, +1-513-3BRUCEE)

Re: [9fans] 6c bug?

[Bruce Ellis]

for the example you gave the diagnostic is correct.

On 28 February 2012 18:20, erik quanstrom quans...@quanstro.net wrote:
 On Tue Feb 28 02:16:04 EST 2012, bruce.el...@gmail.com wrote:
 what values of p[1] do you expect the test to be of use?

 On 28 February 2012 15:40, erik quanstrom quans...@quanstro.net wrote:
  for p = uchar*, Nbus==256,
 
                 if((uint)p[1] = Nbus){
 
  generates
 
         warning: ./mp.c:212 useless or misleading comparison: UCHAR = 0x100
 
  i'm pretty sure that 6c is incorrectly issuing the diagnostic before
  applying the cast.  (the cast is there to shut the compiler up.)

 it is not a given that Nbus = 255.

 - erik




-- 
Don't meddle in the mouth -- MVS (0416935147, +1-513-3BRUCEE)

Re: [9fans] 6c bug?

[Bruce Ellis]

what values of p[1] do you expect the test to be of use?

On 28 February 2012 15:40, erik quanstrom quans...@quanstro.net wrote:
 for p = uchar*, Nbus==256,

                if((uint)p[1] = Nbus){

 generates

        warning: ./mp.c:212 useless or misleading comparison: UCHAR = 0x100

 i'm pretty sure that 6c is incorrectly issuing the diagnostic before
 applying the cast.  (the cast is there to shut the compiler up.)

 - erik


-- 
Don't meddle in the mouth -- MVS (0416935147, +1-513-3BRUCEE)

[9fans] T61

[Bruce Ellis]

a friend gave me a thinkpad T61 today and the mighty bunny installed
no problems (at the mighty sunshine club - beautiful day today).

i might need a T61 friend for cardbus help (my stuff from india is on
a drive). i believe such or similar machines abound in bunny land.

anyone wanna virtually hold my hand at times? off list please.

your devoted servant,
brucee
-- 
Don't meddle in the mouth -- MVS (0416935147, +1-513-3BRUCEE)

Re: [9fans] Rising intonation

[Bruce Ellis]

Don't worry cuzz, he's a Bwit.

On 16 January 2012 14:07, Winston Kodogo kod...@gmail.com wrote:
  It's not public? read with rising intonation?

 Charles? I'd never have picked you as as a Kiwi?? But your rising
 intonation has given you away???




-- 
Don't meddle in the mouth -- MVS (0416935147, +1-513-3BRUCEE)

Re: [9fans] fossil (again)

[Bruce Ellis]

Many a moon ago Basser was doing something about incorporating various
bits into the a 32V Vax system.

They went for a 1K block filesystem (don't remember which one, early
BSD?) but spent a large amount of time on retrofitting 512B blocks. I
wrote a small program that traversed a disk and reported on 1K vs 512B
usage. The 1K filesystem used 27% less space. There's a random one
point sample space. They pushed ahead with the smaller block size as
it must have less waste. Then again a lot of silly things were done
and I moved to Murray Hill - don't let theory and measurements get in
the way of a their comfortable paying jobs - be safe and stupid. A
University was not the place for Computer Science.

Then again I have a Coraid so my bits are safe.

I bought a Netgear NAS recently. It seemed like a bargain at a little
over the price of the 1T drive it came with. I put a 1T drive in the
second slot and hope this will be a good place to put stuff (the 2nd
drive mirrors the first). If i had the time I'd buy a second one and
hack it ruthlessly to support 9P. It supports CIFS, http, ftp, and has
a torrent client(!) of all things. Don't underestimate dumping a tar
of current work via ftpfs. As primitive a solution as you could ask
for it is great for my disparate herd of stuff. Type bu in some root
on some OS when you've done your work for the day.

Your call.

brucee

On 10 January 2012 11:44, erik quanstrom quans...@quanstro.net wrote:
 Side note: are there statics about the Plan9 distribution, to know what
 is the best size of blocks? It seems that there is a lot of small text
 files, so 8kb is perhaps too much.

 i did these calculations for the files in / on my worm.  i used values
 from ken's file server for a variety of block sizes.  the program is
 careful to count all the indirect blocks as well, but for simplicity i
 ignore directories rather than working hard to guess how much
 storage they're using.  (can be wrong if entries are deleted.)

 i think these numbers will be similar to those of fossil.

 blksize files   blocks  mb used
 16384   35738   1427263 22300
 8192    35738   2675543 20902
 4096    35738   7775796 30374

 obviously, there are two competing forces at work here.  the amount
 of space wasted off the tail of the last block, and the amount of blocks
 required to map the data into the inode completely.  it seems that for
 my mix of files, 8k is a winner.

 - erik




-- 
Don't meddle in the mouth -- MVS (0416935147, +1-513-3BRUCEE)

Re: [9fans] fossil (again)

[Bruce Ellis]

confused me. you mean 27% or what's in my signature?

On 10 January 2012 16:30, Lyndon Nerenberg lyn...@orthanc.ca wrote:

 On 2012-01-09, at 21:04 PM, Bruce Ellis wrote:

 Your call.

 You didn't give us your number.

-- 
Don't meddle in the mouth -- MVS (0416935147, +1-513-3BRUCEE)

[9fans] oops

[Bruce Ellis]

i think i spammed everyone in sight by pressing the wrong button on linkedin.

most of the offended are on this list so i'll stop this junk.

sorry.
-- 
Don't meddle in the mouth -- MVS (0416935147, +1-513-3BRUCEE)

Re: [9fans] Fortran growing in absolute number of users

[Bruce Ellis]

ratfor++ to the rescue!

On 2 December 2011 17:39, ron minnich rminn...@gmail.com wrote:
 A guy I know at LANL just mandated C++ for all codes, no more Fortran.

 There are no hard and fast rules.

 That article is an advertisement, so treat it as such :)

 ron




-- 
Don't meddle in the mouth -- MVS (0416935147, +1-513-3BRUCEE)

Re: [9fans] Fortran growing in absolute number of users

[Bruce Ellis]

Only the cheese stands alone, Unix sup TM.

I wish I had the poster.

On 3 December 2011 00:46, Noah Evans noah.ev...@gmail.com wrote:
 From PJ Plauger when asked about Ratfor:

 Q: What's Ratfor?
 PJ: To eat cheese.

 Noah



 On Fri, Dec 2, 2011 at 2:41 PM, Bruce Ellis bruce.el...@gmail.com wrote:
 ratfor++ to the rescue!

 On 2 December 2011 17:39, ron minnich rminn...@gmail.com wrote:
 A guy I know at LANL just mandated C++ for all codes, no more Fortran.

 There are no hard and fast rules.

 That article is an advertisement, so treat it as such :)

 ron




 --
 Don't meddle in the mouth -- MVS (0416935147, +1-513-3BRUCEE)





-- 
Don't meddle in the mouth -- MVS (0416935147, +1-513-3BRUCEE)

Re: [9fans] all you yacc experts

[Bruce Ellis]

that's what i said ...

If all the information is available in y.output then surely modifying
yacc will cut out the middle man.

brucee

On 13 November 2011 21:08, Steve Simon st...@quintile.net wrote:
 Perhaps I'am way off base but surely the neatest solution would be to
 modify yacc to produce a nice clean message format, modify the gc
 to use that format.

 The reason for not using just the same format blindly is it was designed
 with the structure of gc in mind rather than a clean output format.

 Who knows, by delving into yacc perhaps more or even better error
 status can be extracted.

 Then we just need to convince russ/the go authors to include plan9's yacc
 as part of the go distribution, it wouldn't be unprecendented as go already
 includes 8c, 8l and friends.

 -Steve





-- 
Don't meddle in the mouth -- MVS (0416935147, +1-513-3BRUCEE)

Re: [9fans] all you yacc experts

[Bruce Ellis]

Reread what I posted. I said that I will modify yacc for different
reasons and gave my reasons for doing so. I NEVER said RUN INFERNO.

Yes ron, what a lot of noise. And I'll SHOUT whenever I think it might
help, Mr aptly named Scatomancer.

brucee

On 14 November 2011 09:30, Scato Logic go.scatol...@gmail.com wrote:
 Let me get this straight. The goal is to get a successful full native build
 of go under plan9. Currently, the build requires bison which no one wants to
 port to plan9 but can be run via linuxemu. Brucee has offered to modify his
 limbo version of yacc to make things work but that yacc will then need to be
 run via the Inferno emu. Is this a comedy skit?



-- 
Don't meddle in the mouth -- MVS (0416935147, +1-513-3BRUCEE)