[9fans] Re: broken link in cat-v

[Rob Pike]

Thanks, but I don't know who owns that site these dayse. I'll forward to
the 9fans mailing list.

-rob


On Sat, Feb 10, 2024 at 6:20 AM Douglas McIlroy <
douglas.mcil...@dartmouth.edu> wrote:

> The link to plan 9 from outer space in sam.cat-v is wrong. I found a good
> link in wikipedia.
>

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Re: [9fans] Plan9 multi-core support

[Rob Pike]

The dual VAX was the first machine we tried to make work, but for various
reasons including the machine's peculiarities and our own embryonic
knowledge, we abandoned it. The first working Plan 9 kernel was for a 4-CPU
(one MIPS chip per board) IRIS machine, with custom locking hardware (on
another board) because the MIPS 2000 had no synchronization instructions.
That was started in early 1989.

If there is any evidence of the VAX attempt around, I would disavow it.

-rob


On Tue, Aug 29, 2023 at 4:22 PM Steve Simon  wrote:

>
> there was a vax compiler and i think a vax kenfs implementation, i don’t
> know if there was a vax cpu/auth kernel. quite possibly not.
>
> currently i can only find my own post on tuhs confirming the vax was a
> dead end. but i am sure jmk told me he found a vax compiler binary in the
> labs dump.
>
> i think vaxes where becoming rather passé by the time plan9 was born.
>
> -Steve
>
>
> > On 28 Aug 2023, at 7:21 pm, Kurt H Maier via 9fans <9fans@9fans.net>
> wrote:
> >
> > On Mon, Aug 28, 2023 at 12:32:55PM +, G B via 9fans wrote:
> >> Windows and Linux began on single-core single processor machines.
> Multiprocessor had been around for some time--IBM's System 360 began using
> multi-processors in 1968--but not for x86. Plan 9 first edition came out in
> 1992, at a time when multicore didn't exist, and multicore was released
> with IBM's Power 4 in 2001.
> >> I can see why someone would ask if Plan 9 supports multicore. Plan 9
> 3rd edition was released in 2000 and 4th edition was released in 2002. In
> each case, going from single core-single processor to multiprocessor and
> then from multiprocessor to multicore would require changes in the
> operating system to recognize the extra processors and then the cores.
> >
> > Symmetric multiprocessing was available in 1992, even on x86
> > machines.  Multics, tops-10, and various unixes all supported it by then.
> > Once you have shared-memory SMP there's little difference between
> > multiprocessor and multicore.  Plan 9's implementation is imo cleaner
> > than most of what came before, but by 1992 there was a lot of
> > multiprocessing going on in the world.
> >
> > khm

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Re: [9fans] Plan9 multi-core support

[Rob Pike]

A big reason for doing Plan 9, as the linked article says right up top, was
supporting multi{core|processor} machines. And that took some research
because there really hadn't been that many around to write OSes for before
then. Some novel work resulted, work that still has relevance.

-rob


On Sun, Aug 27, 2023 at 8:41 AM  wrote:

> Quoth dusan3...@gmail.com:
> > Does plan9 have multi-core support? If it does, how does it manage it
> (what files/man pages/docs do I read). If it doesn't have, how would I
> implement it.
>
> read: https://doc.cat-v.org/plan_9/4th_edition/papers/9
> and once again, read: https://www.mikeash.com/getting_answers.html
>
> (hint: multiprocessor means the same thing as multicore)
>
> > If it doesn't have, how would I implement it.
> 
> it already has it, but if it didn't -- were incapable of finding out
> if we have multicore support, what makes you would be able to implement it?
> 

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Re: [9fans] How to customize set of commands in acme

[Rob Pike]

Create the initial workspace you want, use Dump, and quit. Then when you
want to start, say acme -l acme.dump.

-rob


On Mon, Jan 16, 2023 at 6:58 PM Alexander Sychev  wrote:

> Hello,
>
> For manipulating tags of windows, you can eather use external application
> or patch acme. I wrote an application, https://github.com/santucco/atag,
> it manipulates tags of acme's windows. I doubt it will work in plain Plan9
> without modifications, I use it with acme from plan9port.
>
> I do not know a way to manipulate the top tag from outside, except
> changing acme.
>
> Best regards,
> Alexander
>
> пн, 16 янв. 2023 г., 6:54 :
>
>> When I create a new acme session, I have a row of blue commands which
>> accompany a row/document. (Not sure what these are  called.) I would like
>> to know if one can add a few commands to the default values. For example, I
>> would like to add *win* next to *Zerox* and *Delcol*. There are several
>> commands I use all the time, 'win' being just one example.
>>
> *9fans * / 9fans / see discussions
>  + participants
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>

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Re: [9fans] B name origin?

[Rob Pike]

Buffer, a word in editor context that came from QED but may have had
earlier roots.

-rob


On Mon, Dec 12, 2022 at 11:44 PM  wrote:

> Does anybody know where the name B (b/B in sam) comes from?
> thanks,
> Gergely Födémesi

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Re: [9fans] acme and sam - mouse suggestions?

[Rob Pike]

Sorry, yes, it's MO09BOA on mine too. Small print, old eyes.

The bottom of my IBM-branded one has the same model number.

-rob


On Fri, Jan 28, 2022 at 4:16 PM Bakul Shah  wrote:

> Mine says MO09BOA. It has a Lenovo logo
> and the scroll thingy is lighted blue.  It is not
> a wheel, more like a single axis trackpoint.
>
> On Jan 27, 2022, at 8:47 PM, Rob Pike  wrote:
>
> I have one mouse still in the original unopened box, just to be safe. The
> label reads
>
> 31P7405 Lenovo Scrollpoint Mouse Model MO098OA
>
> And I have now opened it to be sure, and it is the true blue (literally)
> 3-button version. It is labeled Lenovo, although the ones I use are all
> labeled IBM.
>
> -rob
>
>
> On Fri, Jan 28, 2022 at 3:44 PM Kurt H Maier via 9fans <9fans@9fans.net>
> wrote:
>
>> On Thu, Jan 27, 2022 at 08:39:09PM -0800, Kurt H Maier via 9fans wrote:
>> > The Scrollpoint Rob mentioned was made
>> > with both IBM and Lenovo branding, and was also available in a sculpted
>> > Pro model with a thumb-actuated fourth button.
>> 
>> I should specify:  the Scrollpoint mouse technically only has two
>> buttons and a round pointing device in between.  The Scrollpoint II is
>> the one Rob describes (with either a blue or red oval pointing stick
>> behind a middle mouse button), and it was available in both optical and
>> mechanical configurations.  The Scrollpoint Pro ergonomic mouse was also
>> available in both optical and mechanical setups; the mechanical version
>> is absolutely miserable, but the optical version was great.
>> 
>> khm
>> 
>
> *9fans <https://9fans.topicbox.com/latest>* / 9fans / see discussions
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Re: [9fans] acme and sam - mouse suggestions?

[Rob Pike]

I have one mouse still in the original unopened box, just to be safe. The
label reads

31P7405 Lenovo Scrollpoint Mouse Model MO098OA

And I have now opened it to be sure, and it is the true blue (literally)
3-button version. It is labeled Lenovo, although the ones I use are all
labeled IBM.

-rob


On Fri, Jan 28, 2022 at 3:44 PM Kurt H Maier via 9fans <9fans@9fans.net>
wrote:

> On Thu, Jan 27, 2022 at 08:39:09PM -0800, Kurt H Maier via 9fans wrote:
> > The Scrollpoint Rob mentioned was made
> > with both IBM and Lenovo branding, and was also available in a sculpted
> > Pro model with a thumb-actuated fourth button.
> 
> I should specify:  the Scrollpoint mouse technically only has two
> buttons and a round pointing device in between.  The Scrollpoint II is
> the one Rob describes (with either a blue or red oval pointing stick
> behind a middle mouse button), and it was available in both optical and
> mechanical configurations.  The Scrollpoint Pro ergonomic mouse was also
> available in both optical and mechanical setups; the mechanical version
> is absolutely miserable, but the optical version was great.
> 
> khm
> 

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Re: [9fans] acme and sam - mouse suggestions?

[Rob Pike]

LENOVO SCROLLPOINT MOUSE - USB. I have a few of them.
None of mine have ever broken or needed maintenance.

Not sure they're made any more, and the IBM logo on this:
https://www.exxactcorp.com/Lenovo-31P7405-E1272118
may be indicative, but I've been using mine for 20+ years with
great satisfaction. And there is no wheel noise to annoy me.

Note that mine has an actual middle button, and although
it's hard to see from the picture, the text implies this version
does too. It may well be the same.


-rob


On Fri, Jan 28, 2022 at 2:49 PM Ben Hancock  wrote:

> Hi all,
> 
> Acme has become my main text editor and I'm in the market for a good
> mouse with a decent middle click (i.e. B2). If product recommendations
> aren't eschewed on the list, would fellow acme and/or sam users be
> willing to share some mice suggestions? There seem to be a real dearth
> of options that have a true middle button these days.
> 
> I'm currently using an Elecom mouse designed for use with CAD programs
> that has a true middle button, and it does a serviceable job. But it
> feels cheap and I fear it will break with much more use. I also recently
> tried a gaming mouse -- a Roccat KAIN 100 Aimo -- after reading reviews
> that its scroll wheel had a decent click. But while it's quite a nice
> mouse, the middle click requires more pressure than I'd prefer.
> 
> Many thanks in advance!
> 
> - Ben

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Re: [9fans] Codebase navigation and using tags files in acme

[Rob Pike]

It is Russ Cox's code search suite: https://github.com/google/codesearch

On Fri, Aug 20, 2021 at 5:02 AM  wrote:

> Quoth un...@cpan.org:
> > Quoth Maurizio Boriani :
> > > thanks a lot! But... what's csearch?
> >
> > Possibly
> https://manpages.debian.org/testing/codesearch/csearch.1.en.html
> 
> Igonre--the other post, mentioning the go package is more likely.
> 

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Re: [9fans] Codebase navigation and using tags files in acme

[Rob Pike]

% cat bin/f
#!/bin/sh

9 grep -i -n '^func (\([^)]+\) )?'$1'\(' *.go /dev/null
% cat bin/t
#!/bin/sh

9 grep -i -n '^type '$1' ' *.go /dev/null

% cat bin/cf
#!/bin/sh

csearch -n -f '\.go$' '^func (\([^)]+\) )?'$1'\('
% cat bin/ct
#!/bin/sh

csearch -n -f '\.go$' '^type '$1

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Re: [9fans] astro: meeteeor shouwer?

[Rob Pike]

If you mean, why is it spelled like that? It's because the text was sent to
the voice synthesizer for the 5PM Unix room ephemeris announcement. Tweaked
spellings could improve pronunciation.

-rob


On Thu, Jul 29, 2021 at 9:42 AM Marshall Conover 
wrote:

> Today's the peak of a seasonal meteor shower. I'm pretty excited, gonna be
> out in the middle of nowhere this weekend, thinking of doing a timelapse.
>
> On Wed, Jul 28, 2021 at 7:34 PM Anthony Sorace  wrote:
>
>> Speaking of astro, anyone know the story behind this?
>>
>> :; astro | sed 2q
>> 2021  7 28
>> Pisces australid  meeteeor shouwer
>>  :; agrep meeteeor /sys/src/cmd/astro/*.c
>> /sys/src/cmd/astro/search.c:61:
>>  event("%s  meeteeor shouwer",
>
>
> --
> Have a good day,
>
> Marshall Conover
> *9fans * / 9fans / see discussions
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Re: [9fans] Help with a sam cleanup script

[Rob Pike]

There are many things here that feel wrong or at least inelegant, starting
with the first character. Surely you mean a comma not a period. You are
also inconsistent: sometimes you use x to find the pattern and then change
it, sometimes you use a substitute. It's more efficient in both time and
keystrokes to use c or d when you can:

,x/‘‘|’’/c/"/

,x/\*/d


for example.

But overall: If you show us either the ed script you use, or a precise
definition of the problem, people could offer solutions. I assure you sam
can do this; it's far more powerful than ed.

But then: Why not use ed if you have a working script? Or are you just
trying to understand sam better? The docs for sam are complete. Lose your
line orientation and think of the file as a single string. That's how sam
works.

-rob




On Wed, Jul 21, 2021 at 7:18 PM  wrote:

> In ed I have a cleanup script which I can apply to several files at once.
> The script removes things like blank lines and spaces between words. To run
> it on a file or multiple files, I type this command:
> ed [name of file(s)] < cleanup-script
> I converted all the regular expressions in the file into sam regex format
> and tried the same, but to no avail.  Here is a list of some of the
> commands:
>
> .x s/\*//g
> ,x/^ +/s///
> ,x/ +$/s///
> ,x/  +/s// /
> ,x/^$\n/d
> ,x/‘‘|’’/s//"/
> ,x/“|”/s//"/
> ,x/‘|’/s//"/
> ,x/^ +/s///
> ,x/ +$/s///
> ,x/  +/s// /
> ,x/^$\n/d
> ,x/‘‘|’’/s//"/
> ,x/“|”/s//"/
> ,x/‘|’/s//"/
> ,x/teh/c/the/
> wq
>
> I am not even sure sam can do this, but if it can, I would appreciate
> some guidance on how to do it.
>
>
> *9fans * / 9fans / see discussions
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>

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Re: [9fans] ed regular expressions in sam

[Rob Pike]

I would

,x s/.*/echo "&"/

as it seems most direct. The ,x idiom is the thing that turns sam into ed.

-rob


On Tue, Jul 20, 2021 at 9:18 PM  wrote:

> or:
> 
> ,x/^/i/echo "
> ,x/$/i/"
> 

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Re: [9fans] Sam arena allocators

[Rob Pike]

After Acme was written, I replaced most of the buffer management code in
Sam with that from Acme, which was more efficient - it did the database
stuff in a different order that was one pass quicker. It's possible the old
code used an arena allocator, I don't remember, but it's possible you're
referring to the code in samterm, which grew up on the Blit and likely had
some compacting arena management code in it to keep the memory footprint
small. As always, though, my memory may be faulty; it compacts too often.

-rob


On Tue, Jun 29, 2021 at 8:20 AM silas poulson 
wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> Recently discovered a blog post[1] stating Sam used to have arena
> based allocators.
> 
> Having difficulty finding more about this - does anyone know what the
> allocator looked like and why the source returned to using the
> standard allocators.
> 
> Silas
> 
> [1]https://jeremywsherman.com/2012/02/28/memory-allocation-in-sam/
> 

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Re: [9fans] Acme fonts

[Rob Pike]

I see, yes. Well, that's not too terrible.

-rob


On Thu, Jul 23, 2020 at 1:40 PM  wrote:

> > I don't understand that. Acme knows the characters' location or it
> couldn't
> > draw them. Are you sure it's not just the frame library's lousy handling
> of
> > italic fonts?
> 
> Unless I'm misunderstanding how this works, ',' (0x2c) gets mangled
> to something like 0x10002c.
> 
> So, acme knows the location, but not the character types. That means
> 'foo,bar,baz' with a mangled ',' codepoint would treat ',' as a word
> character instead of a separator. Double clicking within foo would
> select [foo,bar,baz] rather than just foo.
> 

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Re: [9fans] Acme fonts

[Rob Pike]

>
> *You can tell because when I double-click on the modified text acme
> doesn't know where the word boundaries are and ends up highlighting across
> punctuation that it normally wouldn't.*


I don't understand that. Acme knows the characters' location or it couldn't
draw them. Are you sure it's not just the frame library's lousy handling of
italic fonts?

-rob

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Re: [9fans] dc(1) exponent limits

[Rob Pike]

In case it's not clear, those calculations are integral, only the
presentation looks like floats.

-rob


On Tue, Dec 17, 2019 at 9:46 AM Rob Pike  wrote:

> % ivy
> 652342**52342
> 1.85475753442e+304341
>
> )cpu
> 8.291ms
>
> (652342**52342)/34232342
> 9.27378767209e+304340/17116171
>
> )cpu
> 9.217ms
>
> float _
> 5.41814385477e+304333
>
>
> 50 minutes feels excessive; dc seems to work very hard.
>
> -rob
>
>

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Re: [9fans] dc(1) exponent limits

[Rob Pike]

% ivy
652342**52342
1.85475753442e+304341

)cpu
8.291ms

(652342**52342)/34232342
9.27378767209e+304340/17116171

)cpu
9.217ms

float _
5.41814385477e+304333


50 minutes feels excessive; dc seems to work very hard.

-rob

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Re: [9fans] R.I.P cs.bell-labs.com

[Rob Pike]

Everyone is naming sites to check out, but which one has the right
contents, is being maintained, and will be stable?

-rob


On Fri, Jan 5, 2018 at 6:42 PM, David du Colombier <0in...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Take a look to https://9p.io/
>
> --
> David du Colombier
>
>

Re: [9fans] (no subject)

[Rob Pike]

What's this? https://plan9.io/



On Fri, Jan 5, 2018 at 9:27 AM, Joseph Stewart 
wrote:

> Someone (not me) should make a 9p to S3 service and put all the goodies
> there.
> -joe
>
> On Thu, Jan 4, 2018 at 1:20 PM, Steve Simon  wrote:
>
>> I found the old addresses here:
>>
>> https://dnshistory.org
>>
>> plan9.bell-labs.com was 204.178.31.16
>> and sources.cs.bell-labs.com was 204.178.31.32
>>
>> Both gone too, its not just DNS.
>>
>> I think it has fallen off its perch,
>> it is are pine-ing for the fjords,
>> it is an ex OS research group.
>>
>> -Steve
>>
>>
>

Re: [9fans] questions whose answers are only known by people who abandoned 9fans

[Rob Pike]

It went away because it wasn't necessary.

-rob


On Wed, Oct 18, 2017 at 11:50 AM, Kurt H Maier  wrote:

> On Tue, Oct 17, 2017 at 05:46:22PM -0700, Kurt H Maier wrote:
> >
> > implementation of sam, the '@' operator (which behaved like '*' except
>
> The '@' operator (c=ANYNL) behaved like '.' (c=ANY) not '*' (c=STAR).
>
> Apologies for the egregious misinformation,
> khm
>
>

Re: [9fans] Blit

[Rob Pike]

9600 baud direct connection, in the same room.

-rob


On Thu, Apr 27, 2017 at 5:53 AM, Bruce Ellis <bruce.el...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Good old jim. I had a great time writing bedbug (a VAX C debugger) using
> it - in a weekend with a cockatiel on my shoulder - when you were kind
> enough to let me stay as a house guest. I recall you saying that you used
> bedbug when writing sam.
>
> Such an enlightenment after using vi. Was it a 1200 baud modem?
>
> brucee
>
> On 27 April 2017 at 22:37, Rob Pike <robp...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Total coincidence: I played on a 5620 yesterday, connected to a 3B2
>> running System V. Used jim for the first time since 1985.
>>
>> -rob
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 10:23 PM, Bruce Ellis <bruce.el...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I guess Stephen should update his webpage. He's quite a specialized
>>> tinkerer. He built a huge analogue synthesizer for the Smashing Pumpkins,
>>> so big the photo he showed me was taken in a car lot. I had test audio of
>>> his S module as a ring-tone on my old nokia, which drove the nurses in
>>> hospital nuts. brucee has epilepsy.
>>>
>>> I still have a working 5630 in storage. It's quite a shame when the labs
>>> tries to productize a neat invention.
>>>
>>> Skip. Have you made a phone call on the 1ESS with it's two storey rails?
>>>
>>> brucee
>>>
>>> On 27 April 2017 at 14:12, Skip Tavakkolian <skip.tavakkol...@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> From a recent twitter thread -- droppings?! :) -- I got the impression
>>>> that smj wasn't at Comm. Museum anymore.
>>>>
>>>> Coincidentally,  on the same thread I found out that by a series of
>>>> happy accidents my old 5620 ended up in a nice home, restored to its
>>>> original beauty. The same guy has done some amazing restoration of old and
>>>> exotic computers.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 5:57 PM Bruce Ellis <bruce.el...@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> For those interested in the Blit and other stuff from the labs,
>>>>> particularly if you are in the Seattle area, you might like to contact
>>>>> s...@sdf.lonestar.org who is the Associated Curator of the
>>>>> Communications Museum. He gave me a tour and I introduced him to
>>>>> games/crabs.
>>>>>
>>>>> Big old telephone exchanges in working order are fun!
>>>>>
>>>>> brucee
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>

Re: [9fans] Blit

[Rob Pike]

Total coincidence: I played on a 5620 yesterday, connected to a 3B2 running
System V. Used jim for the first time since 1985.

-rob


On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 10:23 PM, Bruce Ellis  wrote:

> I guess Stephen should update his webpage. He's quite a specialized
> tinkerer. He built a huge analogue synthesizer for the Smashing Pumpkins,
> so big the photo he showed me was taken in a car lot. I had test audio of
> his S module as a ring-tone on my old nokia, which drove the nurses in
> hospital nuts. brucee has epilepsy.
>
> I still have a working 5630 in storage. It's quite a shame when the labs
> tries to productize a neat invention.
>
> Skip. Have you made a phone call on the 1ESS with it's two storey rails?
>
> brucee
>
> On 27 April 2017 at 14:12, Skip Tavakkolian 
> wrote:
>
>> From a recent twitter thread -- droppings?! :) -- I got the impression
>> that smj wasn't at Comm. Museum anymore.
>>
>> Coincidentally,  on the same thread I found out that by a series of happy
>> accidents my old 5620 ended up in a nice home, restored to its original
>> beauty. The same guy has done some amazing restoration of old and exotic
>> computers.
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 5:57 PM Bruce Ellis 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> For those interested in the Blit and other stuff from the labs,
>>> particularly if you are in the Seattle area, you might like to contact
>>> s...@sdf.lonestar.org who is the Associated Curator of the
>>> Communications Museum. He gave me a tour and I introduced him to
>>> games/crabs.
>>>
>>> Big old telephone exchanges in working order are fun!
>>>
>>> brucee
>>>
>>
>

Re: [9fans] Ping

[Rob Pike]

This might be one reason.

-rob


On Tue, Sep 13, 2016 at 10:51 PM, Chris McGee  wrote:
> Sorry for the spam. Is this mailing list getting my emails?
>
> Thanks
> Chris
>

Re: [9fans] Why does Plan 9 use “snarf” instead of “copy”?

[Rob Pike]

The operation is not to copy but to snarf. It's called snarf because
snarf is what it does. There is no design document.

-rob

On Mon, Sep 12, 2016 at 8:44 PM, Alexander Kapshuk
 wrote:
> Both 'Zerox' and 'Snarf' are there:
>
> /sys/src/cmd/acme/cols.c:34
> textinsert(t, 0, L"New Cut Paste Snarf Sort Zerox Delcol ", 38, TRUE);
>
> On Mon, Sep 12, 2016 at 1:38 PM, Robert Raschke  
> wrote:
>> Hi Mateusz,
>>
>> as far as I remember, it was originally called "xerox". But that is
>> trademarked. No idea where the word "snarf" comes from.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Robby
>>
>> On 12 Sep 2016 12:19, "Mateusz Piotrowski"  wrote:
>>
>> Hello,
>>
>> I've discovered Plan 9 recently and became curious about some
>> design decisions.
>>
>> Why there is a snarf buffer and not a copy buffer?
>>
>> As it might seem to be a dull question, it is not. I am very
>> interested in the reason behind this decision. I've browsed
>> numerous websites (including cat-v.org and the 9fans archives)
>> but I wasn't able to find anything about it.
>>
>> I decided to ask this question [1] on Unix & Linux StackExchange
>> but its community doesn't seem to know the answer.
>>
>> My guess is that "copying" is not as an atomic action.
>> "Copying" is in fact:
>>
>> - obtaining the content you want to copy (_snarfing_)
>> - inserting the content where you want it to be (_pasting_)
>>
>> Hence the use of snarf instead of copy.
>>
>> Am I right? Is there a document / book / article where
>> it is explained?
>>
>> Cheers!
>>
>> Mateusz Piotrowski
>>
>> [1]:
>> http://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/308943/why-does-plan-9-use-snarf-instead-of-copy
>

Re: [9fans] problem with acme on 9front

[Rob Pike]

If that was meant as a dis, you obviously haven't been to New York lately.

-rob


On Sat, May 21, 2016 at 11:16 AM, Kurt H Maier  wrote:

> On Sat, May 21, 2016 at 10:36:44AM -0700, erik quanstrom wrote:
> > > This is tantamount to saying acme is superior because you are better at
> > > acme.  [...]
> >
> > c'mon man.  you follow this with several paragraphs of opinion which
> appear
> > to say that acme is not better because you don't like it.
>
> Yes, having explicitly set the dimensions of the field, I proceeded to
> stay in bounds.
>
> > but then again, editors don't tend to lead to logical arguments.  :-)
>
> I've never seen it happen, and I don't really expect to.  I do maintain
> that calling acme an editor is akin to calling New York a shopping
> center.
>
> khm
>
>

Re: [9fans] [acme] Edit command -- More than one argument?

[Rob Pike]

Edit {
s/^/\[/
s/\:\ /\]/
}


On Mon, Oct 27, 2014 at 8:28 AM, Eduardo Alvarez astrochelon...@gmail.com
wrote:

 Hello, everyone,

 I'm in the process of learning acme via Russ Cox's p9p port. Recently, I
 found
 myself editing some text to use with markdown, and needed to make more
 than one
 modification to a list. I wanted to know if it's possible to give the Edit
 command more than one argument. For example, I found myself needing to
 replace
 colons with a close bracket (]), and inserting an open bracket at the
 beginning
 of the line. So I did this:

 Edit s/^/\[/
 Edit s/\:\ /\]/

 And I was hoping to combine these into a single line, so, for example:

 Edit s/^/\[/ s/\:\ /\]/
 (Not sure if escaping was necessary, but I was playing it safe)

 Doing exactly what I did above resulted in the error

 Edit: newline expected (saw f)

 So that's obviously not it. But I'm not sure if it's at all possible.

 Thank you in advance.
 --
 Eduardo Alvarez

 Stercus, Stercus, Stercus, moriturus sum
   -- Rincewind The Wizzard

Re: [9fans] [acme] Edit command -- More than one argument?

[Rob Pike]

Yes you can. That's how I verified this works. Open up the tag to
multiple lines (just type newline in the tag).

-rob

Re: [9fans] [acme] Edit command -- More than one argument?

[Rob Pike]

That's a shame.

-rob


On Mon, Oct 27, 2014 at 9:41 AM,  s...@9front.org wrote:
 Yes you can. That's how I verified this works. Open up the tag to
 multiple lines (just type newline in the tag).

 I think this only works in p9p.

 sl

Re: [9fans] copy paste bug in cc.y?

[Rob Pike]

Looks like it.

-rob


On Tue, Oct 14, 2014 at 3:11 PM, Yoann Padioleau p...@fb.com wrote:

  Hi,

  It’s a copy paste bug here right?
 https://code.google.com/p/ken-cc/source/browse/src/cmd/cc/cc.y#476


|   LSWITCH '(' cexpr ')' stmnt
   {
   $$ = new(OCONST, Z, Z);
   $$-vconst = 0;
   $$-type = types[TINT];
   $3 = new(OSUB, $$, $3);

   $$ = new(OCONST, Z, Z);
   $$-vconst = 0;
   $$-type = types[TINT];
   $3 = new(OSUB, $$, $3);

   $$ = new(OSWITCH, $3, $5);
   }

Re: [9fans] copy paste bug in cc.y?

[Rob Pike]

It's not dead code. It's prepping the switch somehow.

-rob


On Tue, Oct 14, 2014 at 3:45 PM, Rob Pike robp...@gmail.com wrote:

 Looks like it.

 -rob


 On Tue, Oct 14, 2014 at 3:11 PM, Yoann Padioleau p...@fb.com wrote:

  Hi,

  It’s a copy paste bug here right?
 https://code.google.com/p/ken-cc/source/browse/src/cmd/cc/cc.y#476


|   LSWITCH '(' cexpr ')' stmnt
   {
   $$ = new(OCONST, Z, Z);
   $$-vconst = 0;
   $$-type = types[TINT];
   $3 = new(OSUB, $$, $3);

   $$ = new(OCONST, Z, Z);
   $$-vconst = 0;
   $$-type = types[TINT];
   $3 = new(OSUB, $$, $3);

   $$ = new(OSWITCH, $3, $5);
   }

Re: [9fans] JIT (mostly off topic)

[Rob Pike]

The original Blit JIT (stupid name - if the compilation was in time
we wouldn't need a JIT. Our term was on the fly) version was
actually done by John Reiser.

My favorite JIT I wrote was to fix up floating point after a trap on the SPARC.

-rob

[9fans] sam for Windows?

[Rob Pike]

Does anyone know of a version of sam for Windows that will run on
64-bit installations?

-rob

Re: [9fans] sam for Windows?

[Rob Pike]

The old version of sam does not run on 64 bits, I am told.

-rob


On Mon, Jun 2, 2014 at 3:56 PM, Lee Fallat ircsurfe...@gmail.com wrote:
 Does that old version of sam[1] not run on 64-bit Windows?

 1: http://plan9.bell-labs.com/sources/extra/9pm051031.zip (the version I ran
 awhile ago at my college that I think run 64-bit Windows...).


 On Mon, Jun 2, 2014 at 6:08 PM, Steve Simon st...@quintile.net wrote:

 The short answer is no.

 there is the pf9 package which would probably be the
 best starting point.

 https://bitbucket.org/knieriem/pf9

 I have a similar but less complete toolkit myself, and I
 still run 32 bit plan9 tools on windows.

 -Steve

Re: [9fans] sam for Windows?

[Rob Pike]

Great, thanks.

-rob

Re: [9fans] why u.h, why qid?

[Rob Pike]

u for uint uchar ulong
q for unique.

Re: [9fans] acme known joke, columns tags lost typing focus

[Rob Pike]

I don't understand the bug report. I can't see any problems like what
is hinted at in the description. Please explain carefully and
precisely how to recreate it.

On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 5:28 AM, erik quanstrom quans...@quanstro.net wrote:
 On Wed Feb 12 08:24:28 EST 2014, uvelichi...@gmail.com wrote:
 Sorry for vagary link.  This way my smtp provider attempt tracking how
 mach my posts were red.  I never ask them do that.  Clear link would
 be
 https://bitbucket.org/rsc/plan9port/pull-request/7/fix-acme-known-joke-columns-tag-lost/diff

 won't work here.  nedmail to the rescue.  :-)

 - erik

Re: [9fans] i'm afraid we've had it wrong

[Rob Pike]

He appears not to understand the concept of research.

-rob


On Sun, Sep 29, 2013 at 10:00 AM, Jacob Todd jaketodd...@gmail.com wrote:
 it's good to know where we went wrong.

 On Sun, Sep 29, 2013 at 12:55 PM, andrey mirtchovski
 mirtchov...@gmail.com wrote:
 after all these years:

 http://www.di.unipi.it/~nids/docs/the_plan-9_effect.html

Re: [9fans] Acme win and 75+ character Send commands

[Rob Pike]

Try

set +o emacs

(sic)

-rob

Re: [9fans] Acme win and 75+ character Send commands

[Rob Pike]

You give a shell command the flag -X to turn on X, so +X to turn off X
makes sense in a negative true kinda way.

-rob

Re: [9fans] Building Go/386

[Rob Pike]

I'm pretty sure C defines the include path to be relative to the file
that includes it. The compiler's working directory should be
irrelevant. I'm also pretty sure Plan 9's compiler gets this right, or
at least used to. So more information is required.

-rob

Re: [9fans] anchors broken in the g command in sam on p9p?

[Rob Pike]

Short answer: you can't. It would be nice though. 

-rob


On 22/08/2013, at 4:24 PM, Rudolf Sykora rudolf.syk...@gmail.com wrote:

 
 
 
 On 21 August 2013 19:19, smi...@icebubble.org wrote:
 Rob Pike robp...@gmail.com writes:
 
 OK.  How does one match the start/end of dot in a g// or v// regexp?
 
 ... seems like a good question to me
 Steve Simon in his Sam command reference card also uses ^ and $
 for his TODAY example, so this might actually be wrong.
 
 Ruda

Re: [9fans] anchors broken in the g command in sam on p9p?

[Rob Pike]

Nothing. That's exactly what ^ and $ do.

-rob

Re: [9fans] p9p on Retina Macs

[Rob Pike]

Russ added a couple of helper things to the library. There's now a
'dpi' field in Display and helpers for scaling. I don't remember the
details but a little digging with that pointer should do it. I vaguely
remember you can also specify a scaling integer in the value of $font.
I write a little subfont scaler that he used to generate upscaled
fonts. Have a look around and report back.

-rob

Re: [9fans] How useful is a scroll wheel?

[Rob Pike]

I sit at my desk with a computer (not a laptop) on the floor, a
keyboard in front of me, a mouse on the right and a trackpad on the
left.

On the rare cases I'm programming on a laptop, it's really the same
except for the location of the trackpad. In particular, there's still
a mouse.

-rob

Re: [9fans] How useful is a scroll wheel?

[Rob Pike]

Let me put in a word about the Apple wireless trackpad. I doubt it's
got support in Plan 9, although it works from plan9port on the Mac. I
am devoted to it now: I use it for scrolling. Right hand for pointing
and clicking, left hand for scrolling. Works in acme, sam, etc. plus
of course all the other (non-Plan 9) tools in the hostile environment.

I may be the only person in the world who works like this, and is
therefore happy to move not one but two hands off the keyboard to use
2-d input devices.

-rob

Re: [9fans] Go tip build fails

[Rob Pike]

Are you using Plan 9? Because I don't understand how you could get
those messages on Plan 9, but I do on other systems.

-rob

Re: [9fans] Go tip build fails

[Rob Pike]

that means you are building from source

in the ld directory, look for assignments to rd-add from calls to e32. two do 
not do a cast to int32. try casting those two and let me know if you can

i will be at work in a couple of hours, not on a phone, and can offer more help 
then. 


-rob

On May 1, 2013, at 11:31 AM, Skip Tavakkolian skip.tavakkol...@gmail.com 
wrote:

 yes.
 
 
 On Wed, May 1, 2013 at 11:11 AM, Rob Pike robp...@gmail.com wrote:
 Are you using Plan 9? Because I don't understand how you could get
 those messages on Plan 9, but I do on other systems.
 
 -rob
 

Re: [9fans] Go tip build fails

[Rob Pike]

The patch was not abandoned; that message was a codereview glitch.
It's checked in.

We need to find where the bogus relocation is coming from. It *is*
bogus, but the error catching it is new. To make progress, feel free
to comment out the code that prints the error. I'm pretty sure you'll
be fine. But I would like to understand where the bad relocation value
is coming from. It's caused by something like a -4 becoming
0xFFFC, which doesn't matter when everything's 32 bits but is
caught by the error checking code that's using 64 bits.

-rob

Re: [9fans] Go tip build fails

[Rob Pike]

It would be easier to debug this if there was a way I could log in to
a Plan 9 machine (or virtual machine) capable of compiling and running
the Go distribution.  Such public services have existed in the past;
does one exist today? Please contact me privately if you can help.

-rob

Re: [9fans] Go tip build fails

[Rob Pike]

Thanks to machines offered by Erik Quanstrom and David du Colombier, I
found the bug. Trivial fix is out for review.

C's usual integer conversions apply.

-rob

Re: [9fans] gcc not an option for Plan9

[Rob Pike]

Much of which is symbols. Plus, a a simple computer has gigs of memory.

Yes, it's remarkable how much bigger programs are now than they were
20 years ago, but 20 years ago the same things were being said. I
understand your objection - I really do - but it's time to face the
future. The smart phone in your pocket is roughly 100 times faster
than the machine Plan 9 was developed on and has 1000 times the RAM.
Computers are incredibly powerful now, and the technologies of today
can use that power well (as I claim Go does) or poorly (as some others
do), or ignore it at the risk of obsolescence.

-rob

Re: [9fans] gcc not an option for Plan9

[Rob Pike]

It's pointless to complain about the size of hello world. It's not a
real program. In Go's case it's larger than a C binary because the
libraries (and the presence of a runtime) are capable of much more
under the covers, but by the time you write a real program in Go
you'll find the ratio of Go binary to C binary isn't nearly so large;
the incremental cost to the binary of a Go source file compared to a C
Go file is negligible.

A house is much heavier than a tent, but it also has a much stronger foundation.

-rob

Re: [9fans] gcc not an option for Plan9

[Rob Pike]

Thanks, Andrey, although what you say about Unicode and fmt isn't
true.  Believe it or not, we care about sizes and arranged that fmt
doesn't need to import the whole Unicode tables, only the small subset
it needs.

-rob

Re: [9fans] gcc not an option for Plan9

[Rob Pike]

   so, assuming demand loading, this is more of a
   disk space issue rather than a memory issue?

It's only an issue on mailing lists and discussion groups.

-rob

Re: [9fans] gcc not an option for Plan9

[Rob Pike]

For example, looking at what go install does wrt what a few mkfiles would
do for the same go source is illustrative of what I'm trying to say.

I've never seen a mkfile that builds a transitive dependency graph
given only the source code, downloads the relative dependencies from
the network, builds all the dependencies, and installs the result. Yes
mk could do that, but it would need a lot of help, and that help is
not going to materialize. Why use mk when the source code has all the
information you need to build the program?

I was a big fan of mk, and it (or make, depending) is still used to
help bootstrap the Go installation, but honestly I do not miss writing
mkfiles one bit.


-rob

Re: [9fans] gcc not an option for Plan9

[Rob Pike]

Yes, they are necessary for reflection. Fmt uses reflection - and uses
it well, as rminnich has attested.

On Sat, Mar 23, 2013 at 12:31 PM, erik quanstrom quans...@quanstro.net wrote:
 On Sat Mar 23 15:30:40 EDT 2013, robp...@gmail.com wrote:
so, assuming demand loading, this is more of a
disk space issue rather than a memory issue?

 It's only an issue on mailing lists and discussion groups.

 i was hoping to know if the symbols are used for reflection.

 - erik

Re: [9fans] gcc not an option for Plan9

[Rob Pike]

If go install is slow on Plan 9, it's because Plan 9's file system is
slow (which it is and always has been), and because go install does
transitive dependencies correctly, which mk does not.

-rob

Re: [9fans] gcc not an option for Plan9

[Rob Pike]

I just did a go install, after a clean, of the biggest binary I'm
working on, using my pokey old mac laptop. It took 0.9 seconds, most
of which was spent in 6l and not the go tool. It could be faster, but
it's plenty fast enough.

The public won't use mk or make. If you want to succeed in the world,
you need to find a more modern way to build software. It's been clear
for a long time that that is not a relevant criterion for this
community any more, and although it makes me sad I have moved on.

I regret responding to this thread, and will move on there, too.

-rob

Re: [9fans] Bug in print(2) g verb

[Rob Pike]

But the code looks the same in plan9port at that point. So it looks
like a fix was made somewhere else in that file and not put back into
the Plan 9 sources. The proposed fix is perhaps not the best one.

-rob

Re: [9fans] what is the frequency, kenneth?

[Rob Pike]

It likely has nothing to do with the REM song.

-rob


On Tue, Dec 11, 2012 at 6:18 AM, erik quanstrom quans...@quanstro.net wrote:
 On Tue Dec 11 09:10:53 EST 2012, al...@pbrane.org wrote:
 What's the story behind the curious reference
 to this phrase in the code for timesync(8)?

 it's a reference to
 an r.e.m. song what's the frequency, kenneth (monster, 1994)
 which is a reference to
 
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dan_Rather#.22Kenneth.2C_what_is_the_frequency.3F.22

 - erik

Re: [9fans] Uriel

[Rob Pike]

Does anyone know what happened?

-rob

Re: [9fans] acme Edit bug

[Rob Pike]

That sounds like a bug I fixed in plan9port acme a couple of years
ago, but it's nice to see it's still broken.

I'll dig in.

-rob

Re: [9fans] Watch?

[Rob Pike]

go get code.google.com/p/rsc/cmd/Watch

Re: [9fans] sam, shorten dot by 1 line

[Rob Pike]

Empty dot at the beginning of a line is also empty dot at the end of
the previous line.

I'm not justifying the behavior, just explaining it. This is really
old code with, I admit, some quirky properties. I often think of
rewriting the address code in sam and acme but never do, because a
rewrite would change the behavior of corner cases and break people's
scripts.

Let's move on.

-rob

Re: [9fans] sam, shorten dot by 1 line

[Rob Pike]

.+0 goes from the end of the current value of dot to the end of the
line containing dot.
.-0 goes from the beginning of the line containing dot to the
beginning of the current value of dot.

I don't understand your second question.

-rob

Re: [9fans] sam, shorten dot by 1 line

[Rob Pike]

-#0,+#0-2

(go from the null string at the beginning to the null string at the
end of the line starting two lines back from the end.)

-rob

Re: [9fans] sam, shorten dot by 1 line

[Rob Pike]

Break it down:

a,b means: from the beginning of a to the end of b
.,. means: from the beginning of . to the end of .
1 means: from the beginning of line 1 to the end of line 1.
.,.+0 means: from the beginning of . to the end of .+0, and .+0 is the
null string at the end of .

Now the step:

.,.+0-1 means: from the beginning of . to the end of .+0-1, which
means the end of the line preceding the null string at the end of .,
which ends right back at .+0, so it means the last line of ., so this
doesn't work.
 .,.+0-2 means: from the beginning of . to the end of .+0-2, which
means the end of the second line preceding .+0, which is one line back
from the end.

QED.

The key observation is that on the right of the comma you're talking
about where the address *ends*.

-rob

Re: [9fans] has anyone wished for

[Rob Pike]

What happens when two files linked into the same binary both declare
static extern register variables?

-rob

Re: [9fans] lucidasans and 日本語表示

[Rob Pike]

On Sun, Apr 29, 2012 at 2:55 PM, Lyndon Nerenberg lyn...@orthanc.ca wrote:
 You mean change the hardcoded font name
 in /sys/src/cmd/acme/acme.c?


 No, add something like:

 font = /lib/font/bit/fixed/unicode.7x13.font
 fn acme {builtin acme -f $font $*}

You don't need to do the second line.  Acme uses $font automatically.

-rob

Re: [9fans] lucidasans and 日本語表示

[Rob Pike]

That's odd but easy to change.

-rob

Re: [9fans] lucidasans and 日本語表示

[Rob Pike]

That font is called euro because it does not have the Asian ideographs
and is cheaper to load. Use unicode.8.font if you want them; I have
set font=unicode.9.font since the beginning.

The real question is what the default font should be; I leave that
decision to others.

-rob

Re: [9fans] git and (p9p) acme

[Rob Pike]

set -x

-rob

Re: [9fans] reverse search direction in p9p acme

[Rob Pike]

rio doesn't have button 3 search. acme does.

-rob

Re: [9fans] reverse search direction in p9p acme

[Rob Pike]

Maybe a chorded 3-1 click (not 1-3).

-rob

Re: [9fans] reverse search direction in p9p acme

[Rob Pike]

i don't think either does anything.

-rob

Re: [9fans] Nemo book

[Rob Pike]

this is still my favorite:
http://gi52.photobucket.com/groups/g5/6DUVRHDUAT/typing.gif

-rob

Re: [9fans] Mousing is faster than typing but users do not believe it

[Rob Pike]

If you like mousing, mouse. If you like typing, type. One could even
imagine doing one or the other as appropriate.

Eating is faster than singing.

-rob

Re: [9fans] in ed, how to do i do this?

[Rob Pike]

As the guy who literally wrote the book on this, please may I
recommend some offline reading?

-rob

Re: [9fans] spaces in filenames

[Rob Pike]

Sometime around, maybe, 2000, I flipped the bit in the frogs table so
spaces were legal in file names, for two reasons: we were seeing
spaces in file names from remote systems and seemed simpler to accept
them than to remap them, and I wanted to know how it would affect
things.

Not all software has caught up, I suspect.  It's only been a decade.

-rob

Re: [9fans] spaces in filenames

[Rob Pike]

I still use acme.  My solution for spaces in file names is to avoid
them.  That might not work for everyone.

-rob

Re: [9fans] Q: moving directories? hard links?

[Rob Pike]

On Sat, Apr 16, 2011 at 11:17 AM, Skip Tavakkolian
skip.tavakkol...@gmail.com wrote:
 Linux has slowly become Windows-lite

Except for the lite part.

-rob

Re: [9fans] Go Plan 9

[Rob Pike]

I'm not sure I follow.  The 6c and 6g compilers in the Go distribution
are compiled with the local compiler, such as gcc on Linux and OS X.
I don't believe it's possible they have Plan 9-specific features in
their source.  I can believe they would have problems compiling on
Plan 9, but that's the inverse problem.

Once 6c is built, it is used to build the Go runtime, so the source
and compiler should match perfectly.  Plan 9 compiler issues should
not be relevant.

-rob

Re: [9fans] 8l follows a precedence based on the commandline arrangement

[Rob Pike]

someone should move those pages and all links from 2 to 8.

-rob

Re: [9fans] acme Local command on p9p

[Rob Pike]

On Wed, Feb 23, 2011 at 5:32 AM, Russ Cox r...@swtch.com wrote:
 Local In the Plan 9 acme, this prefix causes a command to be run in
 acme'sown file name space and environment variable group. On
 Unix this is impossible...

 is there any other way to define environment variables for acme while
 it's running?
 On plan9, Local var=val sets var and then all other commands I execute
 with a middle click see $var. On some ocasions this is very useful.

 It might be a good idea to change the implementation of Local
 to look for the two forms

    name=value...
    cd directory

 and implement only those.  Please file an issue.

 Russ

I'm unsure if this conversation is about Plan 9 or plan9port, but in
any case I've used Local for lots of other things on Plan 9,
particularly name space manipulations.  There, I don't understand why
it needs restrictions.

Or are you just saying that on plan9port you need to do magic so you
might as well catalog the tricks?  In that case, I understand.

-rob

Re: [9fans] Modern development language for Plan 9, WAS: Re: RESOLVED: recoving important header file rudely

[Rob Pike]

The more you optimize, the better the odds you slow your program down.
 Optimization adds instructions and often data, in one of the
paradoxes of engineering.  In time, then, what you gain by
optimizing increases cache pressure and slows the whole thing down.

C++ inlines a lot because microbenchmarks improve, but inline every
modest function in a big program and you make the binary much bigger
and blow the i-cache.

-rob

Re: [9fans] history question

[Rob Pike]

as part of the 1989 kernel, ken wrote its beginnings with a pattern
that involved a lot of repetitive typing but had the basic structure.
each function had to define local pieces. i took his idea and wrapped
it into the structure that's there now, which made it easier to get
right in practice. i'm not certain but i remember ken's version was in
the fs kernel; mine was in the regular kernel (although retrofitted to
fs) and introduced the way the errors fit into system calls.

-rob

Re: [9fans] xml

[Rob Pike]

 `Interfaces', the way they are invariably implemented, don't cut it --
 too limiting and imposing.

I do not claim that Go's interfaces can match the type system of
Haskell but this sentence tells me you aren't very familiar with them.
 They are not implemented, invariably or otherwise, like any other
things called interfaces that I know.  They also don't work very much
like the same-named things in other languages.

As for limiting? Maybe. Imposing? Not at all. If anything, I'd call
them liberating.

As Russ said, there's more new in Go than many observers seem to
realize.  The language looks much more traditional than it really is.

-rob

Re: [9fans] Go/Inferno toolchain (Was: comment and newline in

[Rob Pike]

On Mon, Jun 28, 2010 at 3:03 PM, Eric Van Hensbergen eri...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Sat, Jun 26, 2010 at 4:26 AM,  lu...@proxima.alt.za wrote:
 but I can dig
 them up, clean them up, and share them,

 My particular concern is to encourage convergence towards a single
 source distribution rather than divergence as seems to have been the
 case so far with Plan 9 native, Inferno, p9p and now Go. What I have
 chosen to do, ill-advised as it may be, is to set up a mercurial
 repository to re-distribute hacked Go sources that mostly contain
 harmless changes that make it possible to compile the Go sources and
 specifically the development toolchain with the Plan 9 toolchain.  I'm
 presently trying to bring the work I did last year into this
 repository and at the same time keep track of the Go release.


 I've had a composite repo of previous attempts (well, Sape's previous
 attempt) at doing this (for some time) at:
 http://code.google.com/p/go-plan9/

 I'm happy to add anyone to the committer/admin list, although my
 preference is to keep the main branch in sync with go and have folks
 attempts at conversion in sub-branches.  You are of course welcome to
 maintain your own repo with your own effort, I just figured if
 everyone had a common place to see what approaches people were using
 we might get there faster

       -eric

Is the porting process active?

-rob

Re: [9fans] xml

[Rob Pike]

The essence of XML is this: the problem it solves is not hard, and it
does not solve the problem well. -- Phil Wadler, POPL 2003

-rob

Re: [9fans] xml

[Rob Pike]

I should add that Russ's post is on point, Wadler's slightly off.  I
would extend it as The essence of XML is this: the problem it solves
is not hard, it does not solve the problem well, and anyway it's not
the problem people think it solves.

-rob

Re: [9fans] comment and newline in define

[Rob Pike]

What's changed is that, to simplify porting (to systems other than
Plan 9), the compilers in the Go distribution are built by gcc, not
the Plan 9 C compilers.

It's easy to fix that header file. Patches willingly accepted.

-rob

Re: [9fans] sam language question

[Rob Pike]

,x/0\.00/-a/\n/

-rob

Re: [9fans] sam complete filenames with Ins/ctrl-f

[Rob Pike]

The problem is that samterm, which interprets keystrokes, doesn't have
access to the files.  It would be a protocol change that bounces a
message off the server.  Doable but not compatible.

-rob

Re: [9fans] acme to open a 'strange' directory

[Rob Pike]

Acme's New command does not parse the file name.  Try New
rotxy3_[1-5Co6-10Ni] with button 2.

-rob

Re: [9fans] acme to open a 'strange' directory

[Rob Pike]

On Sun, Mar 7, 2010 at 9:24 AM, Rudolf Sykora rudolf.syk...@gmail.com wrote:
 On 7 March 2010 17:43, Rob Pike robp...@gmail.com wrote:
 Acme's New command does not parse the file name.  Try New
 rotxy3_[1-5Co6-10Ni] with button 2.

 -rob

 Ok. This works. Nonetheless, it's a question what is better. With your
 way you have to write 'New' somewhere (either in front of the
 directory, or in the tag line and use the 2-1 chord on it). This may
 be even more work then copying the directory to the end of the tag
 address and click the Get, which is (for directories) always there...

 The other way round. Is there any reason why acme doesn't try the
 literal meaning of the name (what other should it, anyway?) as rc
 does?

 Thanks
 Ruda

It's not acme that's at issue, it's the layers of shell and plumber in
front of it.

-rob

Re: [9fans] What operating systems are the google guys using?

[Rob Pike]

What Russ says is true but for me it was simpler. I used Plan 9 as my
local operating system for a year or so after joining Google, but it
was just too inconvenient to live on a machine without a C++ compiler,
without good NFS and SSH support, and especially without a web
browser.  I switched to Linux but found it very buggy (the main
problem was most likely a bad graphics board and/or driver, but still)
and my main collaborator (Robert Griesemer) had done the ground work
to get a Mac working as a primary machine inside Google, and Russ had
plan9port up, so I pushed plan9port onto the Mac and have been there
ever since, quite happily.  Nowadays Apples are officially supported
so it's become easy, workwise.

I miss a lot of what Plan 9 did for me, but the concerns at work override that.

-rob

Re: [9fans] Lex, Yacc, Unicode Plane 1

[Rob Pike]

On Fri, Jan 29, 2010 at 8:20 AM,  ge...@plan9.bell-labs.com wrote:
 Yes, we only support the 16-bit runes of Unicode plane 0.

Really?  They're 32 bits in plan9port and, although there are a few
things that need to be patched, we know what they are.

Rune should be 32 bits by now.

-rob

Re: [9fans] iwp9-bondi

[Rob Pike]

margaret

-rob

Re: [9fans] iwp9-bondi

[Rob Pike]

my father danced with his great aunt.

-rob