Re: [abcusers] (..) means?
Nice resource! thanks. wil I. Oppenheim wrote: On Wed, 9 Jul 2003, John Chambers wrote: But in general, you can't rely on any such details when reading music. That's true; but the point was that when notating music one should strive do it the correct way. try to learn what rules that printer was following. But there's no useful information in arc thickness or exact positions of the endpoints, because printers don't (or can't) be very consistent in those details. When investigating how music should be printed, one should study the art of internationally renown music printers such as Peters Verlag, not the rubbish of some mediocre printer. In section 3.1 of this document: http://icking-music-archive.sunsite.dk/lists/sottisier/sottieng.pdf one can find information on engraving slurs and ties. Groeten, Irwin Oppenheim [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~~~* Chazzanut Online: http://www.joods.nl/~chazzanut/ To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] (..) means?
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Jack Campin [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes M:4/4 |e2(G2 G2)Bc| Parentheses without a number are used to slur notes. But the notes are the same! If you sight-read music in 4/4, it's easier to follow the music if the note that falls on the third beat is always notated separately. The above example should really have been notated as G2-G2 [tied] though, and not as (G2 G2) [slurred]. Maybe and maybe not. In some contexts slurring two notes of the same pitch means don't change bow direction to a fiddler, rather than continuous bow movement - there are still two perceptibly successive notes. Some staff notation makes a distinction with different curve shapes for slur and tie, but you may need to read a lot of fine print to find it. The typographical difference is that ties always go head to head, slurs going towards the stem end of the note (as in chords) go at the stem end or near. Bernard Hill Braeburn Software Author of Music Publisher system Music Software written by musicians for musicians http://www.braeburn.co.uk Selkirk, Scotland To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] (..) means?
Bernard Hill writes: | Jack Campin [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes | | Some staff notation makes a distinction with different curve shapes | for slur and tie, but you may need to read a lot of fine print to | find it. | | The typographical difference is that ties always go head to head, slurs | going towards the stem end of the note (as in chords) go at the stem end | or near. In actual practice, when I look through my collection of printed music, I find that there is so little consistency that such details are nearly worthless. Much of the music is so sloppy that you can't discern any real pattern in where tie and slur (or phrase) arcs end. Some of them make ties and slurs different thicknesses, but half make ties fatter and half make slurs fatter. There is little pattern in the above/below placement of slur and phrase arcs (though ties always seem to be on the non-stem side). Part of this is probably the mechanics of printing. These arcs thin to a fine point at both ends, so a small change in pressure can make a big change in where the last ink particles bind to the paper. Different runs from the same plates will show the arcs ending at different points. But in general, you can't rely on any such details when reading music. You would first have to study the music and try to learn what rules that printer was following. And the rules could well be different in the next piece of music, even if it comes from the same publisher a year later. A more useful rule is: If an arc connects two identical notes, you call it a tie. If it connects a small group of notes not all the same, you call it a slur. If it covers several measures, you call it a phrase. But there's no useful information in arc thickness or exact positions of the endpoints, because printers don't (or can't) be very consistent in those details. It's better to think of a single arc marking that has three distinct uses. You tell them apart by context. I'd bet that if we compared printed output from abc tools that make printable music, we'd find the same sorts of inconsistencies. And the authors of all the programs would be able to point to published music standards that support what each program does. Standard music notation is a mess. To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] (..) means?
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], John Chambers [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes Bernard Hill writes: | Jack Campin [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes | | Some staff notation makes a distinction with different curve shapes | for slur and tie, but you may need to read a lot of fine print to | find it. | | The typographical difference is that ties always go head to head, slurs | going towards the stem end of the note (as in chords) go at the stem end | or near. In actual practice, when I look through my collection of printed music, I find that there is so little consistency that such details are nearly worthless. Much of the music is so sloppy that you can't discern any real pattern in where tie and slur (or phrase) arcs end. Some of them make ties and slurs different thicknesses, but half make ties fatter and half make slurs fatter. There is little pattern in the above/below placement of slur and phrase arcs (though ties always seem to be on the non-stem side). Part of this is probably the mechanics of printing. These arcs thin to a fine point at both ends, so a small change in pressure can make a big change in where the last ink particles bind to the paper. Different runs from the same plates will show the arcs ending at different points. But in general, you can't rely on any such details when reading music. You would first have to study the music and try to learn what rules that printer was following. And the rules could well be different in the next piece of music, even if it comes from the same publisher a year later. A more useful rule is: If an arc connects two identical notes, you call it a tie. If it connects a small group of notes not all the same, you call it a slur. If it covers several measures, you call it a phrase. But there's no useful information in arc thickness or exact positions of the endpoints, because printers don't (or can't) be very consistent in those details. It's better to think of a single arc marking that has three distinct uses. You tell them apart by context. I'd bet that if we compared printed output from abc tools that make printable music, we'd find the same sorts of inconsistencies. And the authors of all the programs would be able to point to published music standards that support what each program does. Standard music notation is a mess. I don't agree with that last statement. I have four books on Musical Notation and a pamphlet. The most comprehensive book is by Kurt Stone, Music Notation in the 20th century and it claims to be as a result of research done with publishers and copyists. I have difficulty finding a topic on which these authorities disagree, and IIRC have only found one such in several years. And of course I do work in notation for a living. That doesn't mean that your average copyist or software author (who of course may not be a trained or professional copyist) doesn't diverge: but to say there are no standards is quite wrong. The standards are pretty well laid down and while you can of course knowlingly break the rules for good reasons they remain clear. Readers who are interested can download a free windows Help File from my web site which installs to the desktop and gives a summary of good notation practice. It's actually part of the Music Publisher 5 package (where it is integrated as context sensitive help) but I have made it available for free: http://www.braeburn.co.uk/notation.exe (about 350K) Bernard Hill Braeburn Software Author of Music Publisher system Music Software written by musicians for musicians http://www.braeburn.co.uk Selkirk, Scotland To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] (..) means?
On Tue, 8 Jul 2003, Bernard Hill wrote: M:4/4 2e2 e3f|e2(G2 G2)Bc| What's the meaning of the parentheses when there is no number? It doesn't seem to be a shortcut for (2 - or is it? Play 2 in the time of 2? g Parentheses without a number are used to slur notes. Irwin To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] (..) means?
From: I. Oppenheim [EMAIL PROTECTED] M:4/4 2e2 e3f|e2(G2 G2)Bc| What's the meaning of the parentheses when there is no number? It doesn't seem to be a shortcut for (2 - or is it? Play 2 in the time of 2? g Parentheses without a number are used to slur notes. But the notes are the same! My abc2win program printed them as tied, but that is strange because a half note could have been used instead of two tied quarter notes! (I think it also sounds better if both notes are played, not held, but that's another matter.) Dottie B To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] (..) means?
On Tue, 8 Jul 2003, DottieB wrote: M:4/4 2e2 e3f|e2(G2 G2)Bc| Parentheses without a number are used to slur notes. But the notes are the same! If you sight-read music in 4/4, it's easier to follow the music if the note that falls on the third beat is always notated separately. The above example should really have been notated as G2-G2 [tied] though, and not as (G2 G2) [slurred]. Groeten, Irwin Oppenheim [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~~~* Chazzanut Online: http://www.joods.nl/~chazzanut/ To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] (..) means?
From: I. Oppenheim [EMAIL PROTECTED] If you sight-read music in 4/4, it's easier to follow the music if the note that falls on the third beat is always notated separately. Good point! Dottie B abc2win user :-) To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] (..) means?
M:4/4 |e2(G2 G2)Bc| Parentheses without a number are used to slur notes. But the notes are the same! If you sight-read music in 4/4, it's easier to follow the music if the note that falls on the third beat is always notated separately. The above example should really have been notated as G2-G2 [tied] though, and not as (G2 G2) [slurred]. Maybe and maybe not. In some contexts slurring two notes of the same pitch means don't change bow direction to a fiddler, rather than continuous bow movement - there are still two perceptibly successive notes. Some staff notation makes a distinction with different curve shapes for slur and tie, but you may need to read a lot of fine print to find it. - Jack Campin: 11 Third Street, Newtongrange, Midlothian EH22 4PU; 0131 6604760 http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/jack * food intolerance data recipes, Mac logic fonts, Scots traditional music files, and my CD-ROM Embro, Embro. -- off-list mail to j-c rather than abc at this site, please -- To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
