Re: [Alsa-user] sans-pulseaudio Firefox? was: a strange thing
Hi!
Firstly, I posted to my fellow Gentoo users here:
from Firefox52: NO pure ALSA?, WAS: Firefox 49.0 & Youtube... Audio: No
http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/gentoo/user/320724
where I wrote I would try and get an opinion about it (construing it as
citation):
> I'll try and ask on Alsa-user whether this decision makes a real
> threat to remain without audio for all users who want to stick with
> pure ALSA (I will never install pulseaudio).
It's about the bug page on Mozilla that now promises to make pulseaudio
a requirement to play sound in Linux by Firefox52.
So how likely that really is to become true, anybody (esp. ALSA devs, if
you are reading, like also Ralf Mardorf, who is not affiliated with
ALSA, but is a developer ;-) )?
---
And, on another note, below.
On 161201-11:10-0600, James Shatto wrote:
> I've used alsa and firefox. By default java (in debian) is configured
> for pulseaudio.
>
> FILE: /etc/java-7-openjdk/sound.properties
>
...
>
> FILE: .asoundrc
> ### for pulseaudio
> #ctl.pulse { type pulse fallback sysdefault }
> #pcm.pulse { type pulse fallback sysdefault }
> #ctl.!default { type pulse fallback sysdefault }
> #pcm.!default { type pulse fallback sysdefault }
> ### for alsa
> defaults.ctl.card 0
> defaults.pcm.card 0
> defaults.pcm.device 0
> ###---end---
...
>
> - James
I thought Debianers need to be aware of this post of yours, so I posted
where they might find more easily it:
Firefox nightly requires Pulse Audio
http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?f=20=130028=631558#p631558
Regards!
--
Miroslav Rovis
Zagreb, Croatia
http://www.CroatiaFidelis.hr
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Re: [Alsa-user] sans-pulseaudio Firefox? was: a strange thing
I've used alsa and firefox. By default java (in debian) is configured
for pulseaudio.
FILE: /etc/java-7-openjdk/sound.properties
But both alsa and pulseaudio configs are in there (in debian). Just
comment out pulse and uncomment alsa. I switch between a lot,
depending on if I am home or using my laptop as a laptop. Which also
affects icedtea-web, the java plugin for the browser IIRC.
FILE: .asoundrc
### for pulseaudio
#ctl.pulse { type pulse fallback sysdefault }
#pcm.pulse { type pulse fallback sysdefault }
#ctl.!default { type pulse fallback sysdefault }
#pcm.!default { type pulse fallback sysdefault }
### for alsa
defaults.ctl.card 0
defaults.pcm.card 0
defaults.pcm.device 0
###---end---
Comment swap there too. As well as comment modify/swap
.config/pulse/client.conf since I pulseaudio over the network. The 30
band calf eq chews up a lot of the CPU so I offloaded that to another
laptop. A little high end boost to keep the ancient speakers sounding
normal-ish. Depending on my lazy level I'll sometimes use two users,
one configured for alsa, one for pulseaudio.
About the only issue is that adobe's flash uses pulseaudio, so if
you're still using that you'll have "issues" with flash content. In
days of old there's a compat thing you could install and it can be
made to work. I'm not sure of the current methodology. But at least
aoss can be avoided in most cases now.
Most of my flash stuff these days is the freshplayer plugin and
googles chrome pepperflash plugin (in firefox). Freshplayer from
sources in debian stable, and pepperflash extracted and manually
maneuvered. Recently moved out of the chrome.deb (version 54+) and
put somewhere else. But it respects the .asound the client.conf
config settings.
https://get.adobe.com/flashplayer/otherversions/
The ppapi one is the pepperflash download. My manual method puts them
in the ~/. settings area so I never had to be root and only that one
user gets to use it. YMMV, depending on distro. I tend towards debian
stable from a minimal install via debootstrap. It's faster for me on
my slow internet, and I can get extras like network drivers while
still on the network with the host linux install. Much like an
arch-chroot install.
- James
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Re: [Alsa-user] sans-pulseaudio Firefox? was: a strange thing
On Mon, 28 Nov 2016 18:00:49 +0100, Miroslav Rovis wrote: >You are a dev, and I respect that. JFTR I'm not an ALSA dev. -- ___ Alsa-user mailing list Alsa-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/alsa-user
Re: [Alsa-user] sans-pulseaudio Firefox? was: a strange thing
Hi! I solved my issue. But first... On 161117-13:07+0100, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > Miroslav, you don't need to know the Arch package manager commands, just > the output is important. I'm using Firefox without pulseaudio. You don't > need to switch to Arch Linux, this works on other distros, too. Firefox > doesn't require pulseaudio. This is true. And I told that to where the title is so terribly misleading. I'm talking about the title of "Require PulseAudio on Linux" https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1247056#c171 (and the link is to my comment where I told Mozilla devs so) > Arch Linux does use systemd and it's more or less impossible to replace > it by another init system. Well, others say it is not so very impossible at all, just so potential future Archians that read here, get the other side as well: http://systemd-free.org/install.php > However, this is off-topic, as well as > discussing spyware in browsers and similar issues or talking about > Poettering, Sievers and friends. You are a dev, and I respect that. So, not disputing your advice/policy/decision, although I disagree with it. > FWIW > http://lists.linuxaudio.org/pipermail/linux-audio-user/2016-June/105188.html > I didn't check if it's already available. That was interesting, but I couldn't find time to understand it (remember, I'm not very advanced.) Anyway, in this email there can be read all the details of how I solved my issue, which is: use Firefox with pure ALSA: Firefox 49.0 & YoutubeVideo: Yes - Audio: No... https://marc.info/?l=gentoo-user=148035067105746=2 Regards! -- Miroslav Rovis Zagreb, Croatia http://www.CroatiaFidelis.hr signature.asc Description: Digital signature -- ___ Alsa-user mailing list Alsa-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/alsa-user
Re: [Alsa-user] sans-pulseaudio Firefox? was: a strange thing
Miroslav, you don't need to know the Arch package manager commands, just the output is important. I'm using Firefox without pulseaudio. You don't need to switch to Arch Linux, this works on other distros, too. Firefox doesn't require pulseaudio. Arch Linux does use systemd and it's more or less impossible to replace it by another init system. However, this is off-topic, as well as discussing spyware in browsers and similar issues or talking about Poettering, Sievers and friends. FWIW http://lists.linuxaudio.org/pipermail/linux-audio-user/2016-June/105188.html I didn't check if it's already available. -- ___ Alsa-user mailing list Alsa-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/alsa-user
Re: [Alsa-user] sans-pulseaudio Firefox? was: a strange thing
Thanks for the reply! Pls. read on.
On 161116-16:29+0100, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
> On Wed, 16 Nov 2016 14:48:23 +0100, Miroslav Rovis wrote:
> >"build your own Firefox with ALSA enabled"
>
> libpulse is just a make dependency, but even if it should be installed,
> it doesn't matter.
>
> https://www.archlinux.org/packages/extra/x86_64/firefox/
> https://git.archlinux.org/svntogit/packages.git/tree/trunk?h=packages/firefox
>
> I'm using Firefox on Arch Linux without pulseaudio.
>
> [weremouse@moonstudio archlinux]$ sudo systemd-nspawn -q pacman -Qi firefox
> pulseaudio libpulse | grep Na -A2
> Failed to create directory /mnt/archlinux/sys/fs/selinux: Read-only file
> system
> Failed to create directory /mnt/archlinux/sys/fs/selinux: Read-only file
> system
> Name: firefox
> Version : 50.0-1
> Description : Standalone web browser from mozilla.org
> --
> Name: pulseaudio
> Version : 2013.08.18-1
> Description : Dummy package
> --
> Name: libpulse
> Version : 9.0-1
> Description : A featureful, general-purpose sound server (client library)
>
> To use Firefox without pulseaudio, I never needed to build it myself.
> Even not on other distros, but Arch is my everyday Linux and I anyway
> try to stay away from Firefox, so often it's not installed.
If Palemoon had the SSL network reading capability which goes with the
NSS library (which is doesn't use), and also if it had tracking
protection, which I didn't get an answer if it does, pls. see here if
the issue is of interest:
Tracking protection and NSS SSL secrets logging (two security
questions)?
https://forum.palemoon.org/viewtopic.php?f=26=12544
(
and I also didn't get a reply on that question from a Gentoo developer:
https://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-user/message/e477468df3d078681b5727aec0a054b3
)
I may have switched... But I need those, and surely I don't trust
Schmoogle the Goog, the spying company, to give over my browsing to
them, so no Chrom{e,ium}, thanks! (it's only Firefox and Chrome, IIUC,
that have [N]etwork [S]ecurity [S]ervices $SSLKEYLOGFILE capability)...
> [weremouse@moonstudio archlinux]$ ls -hAl /usr/local/bin/firefox; apt list
> qupzilla; lsb_release -d
> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 6 Jan 12 2016 /usr/local/bin/firefox -> icecat
> Listing... Done
> qupzilla/xenial,now 1.8.9~dfsg1-3 amd64 [installed]
> Description: Ubuntu 16.04.1 LTS
>
> --
I have to admit I mostly do not understand your listing and grep'ing,
since those are Arch-specific.
But also I'll kindly disagree with where Archlinux is going, with the
imposition of Systemd...
It's so hard to have an Arch system without switching to poetterware...
It *is* possible, I encountered a link (can't search fro it now) from
some maverick Arch developer, and surely I would follow him, if I had
been Arch user...
[It hard to have an Arch system without switching to poetterware], which
poetterware is the stuff, most if not all of it, that the
one-ring-to-rule-them-all cravers begot. Those cravers who are also the
moneythrowers on what was once Free Open Source... to corrupt FOSS and
subserve it to their goals...
And what was once Free Open Source Software, is not really so
anymore, not from the inside, it's not! But only serves their own
craving interests... Which are pretty clear what those interests are for
a thinking person in the Total Surveillance Age that we live in... They
are: control.
So, Archlinux is blossoming... great tutorials and all-encompassing
support... but only if you switch the entire way to systemd and
associates...
What has become of FOSS/GNU Linux??!!... It's so sad to see...
I'm a Gentoo FOSS/GNU Linux user. And there is some room for
non-poetterware in Gentoo, there really is! The default is still OpenRC,
which is even D-Bus free, hey do you read what I just wrote! D-Bus free!
as dbus is the entrance point of Systemd... See for yourself:
https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Comparison_of_init_systems
Tangentially, this whole post of mine is still within the topic, since
ALSA, in my view, and many others', is still true FOSS, while Pulse is
not.
Just one last thought.
In the Sureveillance Age that we live in, in which everybody carries
appliances that state spies, and world spies like Google, can all listen
to
(
at any later date, they just locate where any event that you took part
in, private or public, they don't have any consideration, the most
private events included, any event, as they have all in their databases,
years later if they want to, and apply a search on it just like the
Google users --I keep to duckduckgo.com-- search in their browsers, and
in this case it's searching through sound, and they find whatever they
search for, in their databases of recordings...
),
in this Surveillance Age we live in, you now tell me what Pulseaudio
is for, with all the remote seats --sure they may have renamed those, I
do
Re: [Alsa-user] sans-pulseaudio Firefox? was: a strange thing
On Wed, 16 Nov 2016 14:48:23 +0100, Miroslav Rovis wrote: >"build your own Firefox with ALSA enabled" libpulse is just a make dependency, but even if it should be installed, it doesn't matter. https://www.archlinux.org/packages/extra/x86_64/firefox/ https://git.archlinux.org/svntogit/packages.git/tree/trunk?h=packages/firefox I'm using Firefox on Arch Linux without pulseaudio. [weremouse@moonstudio archlinux]$ sudo systemd-nspawn -q pacman -Qi firefox pulseaudio libpulse | grep Na -A2 Failed to create directory /mnt/archlinux/sys/fs/selinux: Read-only file system Failed to create directory /mnt/archlinux/sys/fs/selinux: Read-only file system Name: firefox Version : 50.0-1 Description : Standalone web browser from mozilla.org -- Name: pulseaudio Version : 2013.08.18-1 Description : Dummy package -- Name: libpulse Version : 9.0-1 Description : A featureful, general-purpose sound server (client library) To use Firefox without pulseaudio, I never needed to build it myself. Even not on other distros, but Arch is my everyday Linux and I anyway try to stay away from Firefox, so often it's not installed. [weremouse@moonstudio archlinux]$ ls -hAl /usr/local/bin/firefox; apt list qupzilla; lsb_release -d lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 6 Jan 12 2016 /usr/local/bin/firefox -> icecat Listing... Done qupzilla/xenial,now 1.8.9~dfsg1-3 amd64 [installed] Description:Ubuntu 16.04.1 LTS -- ___ Alsa-user mailing list Alsa-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/alsa-user
[Alsa-user] sans-pulseaudio Firefox? was: a strange thing
Hi! I read most of the discussion. But I live, and intend to live, without pulseaudio, so some parts of the discussion are not of much interest to me. Pure alsa only. I dislike pulse. Actually... how do I put it? I do not believe it is easy to control a system with packages like systemd, dbus, pulseaudio, policykit from exploits that those poetterware programs do not properly defend from, if not worse. That is my opinion, I don't expect everybody to agree at all. Just saying I do trust ALSA, but not pulse... Relatively recently I learned of the move away from Alsa in Mozilla Firefox, which I use: Require PulseAudio on Linux https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1247056 which was a disappointment. That really means that I can't open, say a Youtube/Vimeo/some-other video, in Firefox if I don't install its pulseaudio dependency, which I don't want to do. My capabilities and time are limited, else I would have looked into what they say in that link: "build your own Firefox with ALSA enabled" and went for building Firefox on my own... I'm looking for a shortcut to having sound in Firefox. See more below... On 161114-16:49+0100, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > On Mon, 14 Nov 2016 16:37:28 +0100, John P. Hartmann wrote: > >Other applications may need pulse audio to produce sound altogether. ... > > Begin forwarded message: > > Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2016 16:37:28 +0100 > From: "John P. Hartmann" > To: Ralf Mardorf > Subject: Re: [Alsa-user] a strange thing ... > On my Ubuntu 14.4, the control panel applet for sound contains nothing > unless pulseaudio is running. I also discovered that firefox needs the > proper card configured in the applet, but once that is done, pulse > audio is not needed to run. > I wonder if that is true (in the sense that pulseaudio not running at all, not even its "daemon"), because Mozilla devs went for the pulseaudio dependency, as in the link furthe above that I gave, or do I misunderstand something in that paragraph above... But that forwarded email was the sole email that contained the string firefox in some 6 months worth of emails of my alsa-users subscription... Is there anywhere to be found, some not too complex tip/tutorial/something ... where to read/follow/do ... and get me a Firefox that does not need pulseaudio? So I can have audio when I watch videos from the web in Firefox. My machine is Gentoo AMD64. If I had more time, I would dedicate it to this, but sadly I do not have much time... Regards! -- Miroslav Rovis Zagreb, Croatia http://www.CroatiaFidelis.hr signature.asc Description: Digital signature -- ___ Alsa-user mailing list Alsa-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/alsa-user
