Re: [AOLSERVER] is it necessary
nitin chandra wrote: Thank you Everyone, After a lot of attempts i was successful in installing the AoLserver but not PyWX or for that matter any thing which will integrate with Python. Support regarding PyWX on AoL is non-existent, and key people have stopped working / supporting this combo around 8yrs back (at least one person said so). The C-python implementation has a misfeature known as the global interpreter lock (GIL) that presents scalability problems in a threaded environment like AOLserver. I suspect whoever was working on the python integration ran headlong into this, got frustrated, and gave it up. AOLserver is bound to tcl at a pretty deep level, and it does so very well. While there is some support for other languages (php, perl, python, ML maybe?) it will never be as good as the tcl binding. -J -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to lists...@listserv.aol.com with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
[AOLSERVER] AOLserver templating options
Hey all, What's the current state of templating systems in AOLserver? I've found two: 1) ATS: Is it well-maintained, and can it be easily used outside of an OpenACS installation? 2) http://junom.com/document/twt/view/www/ - it seems to be actively maintained given the fact that there are files in that directory created last month, but is it easy to install? And has it been tested in a production environment? 3) Are there any others? Thanks, Hossein -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to lists...@listserv.aol.com with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] AOLserver templating options
Hossein Sharifi wrote: Hey all, What's the current state of templating systems in AOLserver? I've found two: 1) ATS: Is it well-maintained, and can it be easily used outside of an OpenACS installation? 2) http://junom.com/document/twt/view/www/ - it seems to be actively maintained given the fact that there are files in that directory created last month, but is it easy to install? And has it been tested in a production environment? 3) Are there any others? ADP Master Pages is worth checking out: http://aolserver.am.net/code/modules/masterpages.adpx -J -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to lists...@listserv.aol.com with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] is it necessary
On Tuesday, October 27, 2009 9:08am, Jeff Rogers dv...@diphi.com said: The C-python implementation has a misfeature known as the global interpreter lock (GIL) that presents scalability problems in a threaded This why all of the Apache supported languages either require the pre-fork model where they keep one interpreter per process (like PHP) or party like it's 1993 in a FastCGI environment like Ruby (on Rails) does. Yuk. Tcl seems to be the only language that is thread safe and can be embedded in the way it is in AOLserver. And like others have said: AOLserver actually uses a lot of the Tcl API. Most Tcl commands have a C equivalent that can be used outside an interpreter. With the few C modules I have made good use of this, using the String functions and not relying on things like glibc, for instance. (even glibc itself has many threading issues; I tried the str functions and in a high-load concurrent environment, they blew up and segfaulted.) Bas. -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to lists...@listserv.aol.com with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] AOLserver templating options
Hossein Sharifi wrote: Hey all, What's the current state of templating systems in AOLserver? I've found two: 1) ATS: Is it well-maintained, and can it be easily used outside of an OpenACS installation? It was originally developed to be used with a standalone CMS built by ars digita people in the bay area, and later adapted to work with aD's ACS (which evolved into OpenACS). Breaking it out to run standalone again shouldn't be that difficult. There are hook into our localization (message catalog) stuff but that could be ignored/ripped out. The ATS supports master templates that appear to be much like the ADP Master Pages mentioned by Jeff (so i guess the similar MS technology referenced by that site), and has done so since oh 1998, 1999. Actually it's a hierarchy of master templates with the top of the hierarchy being the master for the entire site. Don Baccus http://donb.photo.net http://birdnotes.net http://openacs.org -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to lists...@listserv.aol.com with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] AOLserver templating options
On Mon, Oct 26, 2009 at 3:53 PM, Hossein Sharifi shar...@rateyourmusic.com wrote: 2) http://junom.com/document/twt/view/www/ - it seems to be actively maintained given the fact that there are files in that directory created last month, but is it easy to install? And has it been tested in a production environment? I'm the maintainer. The current home for this is the tnt project: http://www.junom.com/gitweb/gitweb.perl?p=tnt.git It is still the view package, but requires, at least, the tnt package for logging. If you need help installing, please take advantage and ask here or via direct email. Any helpful hits will be shared as better documentation. The templating system is called tic-tac-toe, somewhat shorter than A templating toolkit for tcl. Although the files you saw have been updated recently, the actual code hasn't changed. It is relatively stable and the extension mechanism is well defined, so only actual bugs demand attention. But the templating system is somewhat conservative. You have to add resources in order to access anything outside of a particular template (the setup tcl file adds the resources). The whole point was a safe system where templates of unknown intent could safely be used. So, by default, template cannot execute unsafe commands, but resources can execute arbitrary code. The Tic-Tac-Toe example ( http://junom.com/document/twt/view/www/tic-tac-toe.tcl ) is non-trivial and demonstrates many of the features. The tnt toolkit has hundreds of examples of template files and a few examples of how to organize a website wide templating system. The readme file explains the language basics: http://junom.com/document/twt/view/www/README The template compiler is written in flex/bison so it it fast, but it also validates syntax. When an error occurs, you get a temporary file which ends close to the error. It is usually easy to find and fix syntax errors. The compiled template is just tcl code, once compiled, the compiled version remains valid until the original template file gets a newer timestamp. (You can use touch to force a recompile). 3) Are there any others? Good question. tom jackson -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to lists...@listserv.aol.com with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] is it necessary
On Mon, Oct 26, 2009 at 03:38:30PM -0700, Jeff Rogers wrote: The C-python implementation has a misfeature known as the global interpreter lock (GIL) that presents scalability problems in a threaded Right. AOLserver is bound to tcl at a pretty deep level, and it does so very well. While there is some support for other languages (php, perl, python, ML maybe?) it will never be as good as the tcl binding. I'm not so sure your second statement there is true. What I think IS true, is that yes AOLserver is bound to Tcl at a pretty deep level, so you certainly can't take Tcl out of AOLserver - nor should you want to. Tcl is pretty much in there to stay. However, that doesn't necessarily mean that you can't make some other language just as well supported for AOLserver application level development as Tcl is, if you wanted to. As far as I know there's nothing in AOLserver's design that really prevents that, it's just a Simple Matter of Programming. Good choices would be any language implementation that's reentrant and intended for easy embedding in C code. Obvious candidates are JavaScript, Lua, and probably a couple of the dozens of Scheme implementations out there. With various levels of completeness, people have tried: - Standard ML, Objective CAML, PHP. (I think all used in Production for limited or specialized purposes, e.g. to run canned PHP webmail apps.) - Python. (Sounded like a fair bit of development, but no live use AFAIK.) - Scheme, Ruby, Perl, etc. (Early development only AFAIK, never finished and haven't seen any real use). See also: http://panoptic.com/wiki/aolserver/Languages In fact, although I am NOT particularly familiar with AOLserver's internals (so I certainly could be mistaken), I'd bet that adding good AOLserver support for some other scripting language would be easier than in most other C-coded application servers which DON'T already have tight and reasonably clean scripting language integration. The Tcl support should have already laid most of the groundwork; you shouldn't need to invent APIs and interfaces, just provide your new Language X equivalents for the Tcl stuff that's already there. The only tricky parts might be language implementation specific magic like the Tcl interpretor initialization. I think a deeper question is, are you sure you want to do that anyway? People who see AOLserver's usefullness usually just decide to use the languages it comes with built in, Tcl and C. But you could instead try something completely different from the scripting-language-and-C AOLserver-esque paradigm, like Erlang. Or if you are a real hard-core lover of language X, perhaps you want to build your own application server yourself; I suspect that's what most language partisans or enthusiasts do. -- Andrew Piskorski a...@piskorski.com http://www.piskorski.com/ -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to lists...@listserv.aol.com with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
