Khwaja song - my impression (Re: [arr] Let's keep in mind the attitudes and expo
sorry but many points to disagree with. khwaja song might be holding additional value for muslims due to its religious connotations, and for general fans it might have got some high weightage due to the anecdotes of ARR having composed it already and then AG using it in the film. first i would also like to add that though my father did not find it special (in one hearing), it was/is the absolute favorite of my whole family, including my mother, wife and younger siblings. so i must say there is something in it which most of the people are liking. i can agree that part of the reason may be that muslim connection you mentioned, but only PART of the reason not THE reason. and about weightage due to ARR composition, i don't agree as like my family most of the people i have seen loving it don't have much to do with music or ARR. Firstly, the song has some 1:20 initial alaaps that are quire boring to say and kill the entire beauty of song that comes after that. for me those initial parts are absolute integral to the song, the very beauty of the song. also i truly love when he keeps singing khawaja jee, kawaja jee... in the beginning and also at the end of song. Those ya khwaja ji, moinuddin, gareeb nawaz are without any lyrical or music value. So, I think the start itself is badly thought up. same as above. But then the song starts with lovely music BUT, BUT BUT poor lyrics. absolutely agree with you. lyrics are one of the biggest culprits in this case (but only in some places, not all) other being the pronunciation (sadly by our man). A typical lack of creativity in the monotonous, logically-built up lyrics as is usually the case with Javed Akhtar. Khwaja Mere Khwaja Dil Mein Sama ja Bebaso ki Taqdeer Tu ne hai sawari There is no rhyming, no deep devotion. All that dil mein sama ja type of phrases had been used a 1000 times in cheap ladki-pataao songs in 60s. i have to disagree big time. i found them very meaningful, devotional and effective. there is certain beauty in these simple but very meaningful words. pronunciations are also not clear. that bebaso ki taqdeer tu ne hai sanwari, has bebaso and tu ne pronounced so pooorly that one has to strain to hear it and make the meaning of it. rightly said. and especially taqdeer sounds like takhti (slate) or taqdi. ARR should have emphasized more on pronunciation. And then Tere darbaar mein khwaza noor ko mainne dekha has noor pronounced so poorly by our man himself i fully agree. What was so great in mentioning that auliya sar jhukate hain, so what, is that why you feel respect for him? I think the respect should have come from within, not due to seeing how others are respecting him. i don't agree. i must say these lines carry much weight and importance. this is just a way to express how much respected he is. and btw how we learn to respect someone in the first place? i think we learn it by knowing the respected person (what he did that he should be respected) as well as by seeing other respected persons respecting that person. and then tu hai khwaja - rutaba hai pyara chahne se tujhko mustafa ko paya that xxx is still not clear to my aging ears. i fully agree here. this was the most difficult part. it was not clear to me what he says until i read the lyrics on booklet. and lastly that hai mere peer ka sadqa, tera daman hai thama, tali hai bala hamari, chhaya hai khumar tera especially tali har bala was never clear to me, never, until i read the lyrics. boss pronounced it very poorly. I don't get what exactly is the concept. No rhyming, no poetry, just some words have got hammerred in. can only agree about the lyrics and pronunciation. besides that for me rhyming is perfect and singing by ARR is full of soul and spirituality. I would say that ARR's voice is also not as sweet enough as he is famed for, there is a rare shrillness, a hollow in ARR's voice i think his voice suited very well to the song and in fact to all of songs he has sing. i don't feel any shrillness in his voice. Listen to the music between 3:40 - 4:05. That Persian sort of. Now, that is what I call a royal music. rightly said. Compare the above two sounds to the sound at 1:20-1:45. Now this 1:20 sound is what I call a personal sound, lacking royal touch. It is a commoner's, a poor man's sound, now suitable for a period film. sorry but i lost you here. did not get how it sounds as personal or poor man's music. - Jahanzeb --- In arrahmanfans@yahoogroups.com, V S Rawat vsra...@... wrote: On 3/12/2009 3:11 PM India Time, _Jahanzeb Farooq_ wrote: in fact we watched JA together and during Khwaja mere khwaja as I mentioned that music is by ARR, he said I did not see anything special (sadly enough. may because it was in bad quality. also we know that ARR's music grows but he does not). I am a known JA basher so I thought I can say about
Khwaja song - my impression (Re: [arr] Let's keep in mind the attitudes and expo
A blindness is the lack of visibility which is applicable both the ways. Needless that somebody has to be blind by faith of liking the blindness can also be true to somebody not liking something due to his cynical thoughts. I had wished to stay away from this. But no more. Well Mr Rawat when you are saying the song is long and boring do you really think that your mails also can be? who in the world has such a time to read the entire content where every little thing was a dislike? please retract your comment that muslims might like the song and few fans will just bcs it was an ARR's. Being right has no religion. There are many Hindu who vist KGN Haji Ali and I am one among them despite being a Hindu. I can write answeres to every point you have mentioned. but it would only create a lengthy mail and I value every reader's time and patience. From the very basic you had gone wrong to say the song was written by Javed Akthar. Also the numerous words like Khwaja, Gareeb nawaz all are the names. Also a bign correction to you this is not a mere song like you have said. Its a Sufi enchant and was written decades ago. So it will not have any glamor like the recent bollywood songs. You had pointed that the lengthy instruments as if somebody tuning the instruments, lets take it. I guess you are a fan of Urdu so essentially you would appreciate live ghazals. My question to you how many times have you felt that the Ghazal singer would stratightly dive to the core song before humming? I repeat again this is a kind of Sufi prayer so before commenting try to understand their practice. Sufi is a movement where music and art forms the core of their belief and propagation. I am very happy Khawaji has taken into consideration a majority of their practice and had given an insight. The kind of instruments used and the way the layers are impeccable. Please give a break about pronounciation. If pronounciation has to be so perfect why dont every body score 100/100 in language be it Hindi or any other regional language. Every body has to understand that each vocal chord is unique and has its own level of ranges in frequency and tone. So when air moves in and out depending on the structure it tends to change. So is the formation of our lips and tongue. They too contribute. Its pretty absurd to degrade somebody of his pronounciation of certain words. Esp in songs where they have to maintain the pitch, tone and tune which plays the biggest role for a song. Here however every body can understand it was Noor. I once again want to quote AR's words with slight adaptation. If somebody have to complain he should also be capable and should perform the same in the much better way. --- In arrahmanfans@yahoogroups.com, Chord purev...@... wrote: Anyone liking Khwaja does not make them a blind faith holder. It's a subjective opinion. If you don't like it, fine. If others do, it doesn't make them a blind fan. Arguing you point by point is not going to accomplish anything or convince you otherwise. --- In arrahmanfans@yahoogroups.com, Gomzy gomtesh.upadhye@ wrote: Ignorance is a bliss. On Sat, Mar 14, 2009 at 6:44 PM, V S Rawat vsrawat@ wrote: On 3/14/2009 11:13 AM India Time, _Shamil Sharif_ wrote: and also some of the lyrics he read it was wrong, dear rawat keep hearing, u will be addicted Jai ho!! So, after 15 years of having heard all albums and songs of ARR, now I have to learn how to hypnotize myself till I start liking a song. No thanks. Seems nobody has any answer to the point by point list of why this song is no good. I am facing blind-faith-holders. -- Rawat
Re: Khwaja song - my impression (Re: [arr] Let's keep in mind the attitudes and expo
I don't argue with you Rawat. I am facing a DPDhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dissocial_personality_disorder#ICD-10_Criteria_for_Dissocial_Personality_Disorder On Sun, Mar 15, 2009 at 3:08 AM, Chord purev...@yahoo.com wrote: Anyone liking Khwaja does not make them a blind faith holder. It's a subjective opinion. If you don't like it, fine. If others do, it doesn't make them a blind fan. Arguing you point by point is not going to accomplish anything or convince you otherwise. --- In arrahmanfans@yahoogroups.com arrahmanfans%40yahoogroups.com, Gomzy™ gomtesh.upad...@... wrote: Ignorance is a bliss. On Sat, Mar 14, 2009 at 6:44 PM, V S Rawat vsra...@... wrote: On 3/14/2009 11:13 AM India Time, _Shamil Sharif_ wrote: and also some of the lyrics he read it was wrong, dear rawat keep hearing, u will be addicted Jai ho!! So, after 15 years of having heard all albums and songs of ARR, now I have to learn how to hypnotize myself till I start liking a song. No thanks. Seems nobody has any answer to the point by point list of why this song is no good. I am facing blind-faith-holders. -- Rawat
Re: Khwaja song - my impression (Re: [arr] Let's keep in mind the attitudes and expo
Yes... he read the lyrics wrong at many instances... and biggest glitch is blaming Javed Akhter! the lyricist for this particular song is KASHIF (when will pplz start buying original CDs...!! or atleast care to check for actual information b4 starting bashing up!!). BTW, its a very beautiful song with excellent rendering and composition and there is no doubt anybody not liking it is very subjective. --- On Sun, 3/15/09, Shah Navas shahnavas@gmail.com wrote: From: Shah Navas shahnavas@gmail.com Subject: Re: Khwaja song - my impression (Re: [arr] Let's keep in mind the attitudes and expo To: arrahmanfans@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, March 15, 2009, 6:24 PM I don't argue with you Rawat. I am facing a DPD On Sun, Mar 15, 2009 at 3:08 AM, Chord purev...@yahoo. com wrote: Anyone liking Khwaja does not make them a blind faith holder. It's a subjective opinion. If you don't like it, fine. If others do, it doesn't make them a blind fan. Arguing you point by point is not going to accomplish anything or convince you otherwise. --- In arrahmanfans@ yahoogroups. com, Gomzy™ gomtesh.upadhye@ ... wrote: Ignorance is a bliss. On Sat, Mar 14, 2009 at 6:44 PM, V S Rawat vsra...@... wrote: On 3/14/2009 11:13 AM India Time, _Shamil Sharif_ wrote: and also some of the lyrics he read it was wrong, dear rawat keep hearing, u will be addicted Jai ho!! So, after 15 years of having heard all albums and songs of ARR, now I have to learn how to hypnotize myself till I start liking a song. No thanks. Seems nobody has any answer to the point by point list of why this song is no good. I am facing blind-faith- holders. -- Rawat
Re: Khwaja song - my impression (Re: [arr] Let's keep in mind the attitudes and expo
and also some of the lyrics he read it was wrong, dear rawat keep hearing, u will be addicted Jai ho!! AR Rahman - His music for ears for years From: ramakrisha laxmana subramanian siva gopala acharya iyer .aiyooo amma idli wada dosa sambar chatni . sriramiye...@yahoo.co.in To: arrahmanfans@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2009 10:56:12 PM Subject: Khwaja song - my impression (Re: [arr] Let's keep in mind the attitudes and expo Hey Rawat - 'Khwaja' ka lyrics is written by Kashif and not Jaaved Akthar. --- In arrahmanfans@ yahoogroups. com, V S Rawat vsra...@... wrote: On 3/12/2009 3:11 PM India Time, _Jahanzeb Farooq_ wrote: in fact we watched JA together and during Khwaja mere khwaja as I mentioned that music is by ARR, he said I did not see anything special (sadly enough. may because it was in bad quality. also we know that ARR's music grows but he does not). I am a known JA basher so I thought I can say about this song also. khwaja song might be holding additional value for muslims due to its religious connotations, and for general fans it might have got some high weightage due to the anecdotes of ARR having composed it already and then AG using it in the film. But as a song, I find khwaja song quite barren and monotonous if I can say that. It is a sort of introvert song giving a feel that a person must be singing it within his heart and mind. It is his personal pleasure. Others would not be able to connect to it. Firstly, the song has some 1:20 initial alaaps that are quire boring to say and kill the entire beauty of song that comes after that. It is more like the sounds generated when a player tunes up his instruments before starting to really play it up. Such a long wasted part is a sin in current busy time. Those ya khwaja ji, moinuddin, gareeb nawaz are without any lyrical or music value. So, I think the start itself is badly thought up. But then the song starts with lovely music BUT, BUT BUT poor lyrics. A typical lack of creativity in the monotonous, logically-built up lyrics as is usually the case with Javed Akhtar. Khwaja Mere Khwaja Dil Mein Sama ja Bebaso ki Taqdeer Tu ne hai sawari There is no rhyming, no deep devotion. All that dil mein sama ja type of phrases had been used a 1000 times in cheap ladki-pataao songs in 60s and here he comes up with that in a 21st century devotional song. I would say that the major failure of the song remains in the poor lyrics. Then, it fails in arrangements of vocals. None of the voices carry and ethos and pathos. They are just singing an any song, not a religious song for the most respected muslim personality of Indian subcontinent. pronunciations are also not clear. that bebaso ki taqdeer tu ne hai sanwari, has bebaso and tu ne pronounced so pooorly that one has to strain to hear it and make the meaning of it. Sad that it is our man himself. And then Tere darbaar mein khwaza noor ko mainne dekha has noor pronounced so poorly by our man himself, and then there are alaaps, and then the music gives the impression that the line is going to be repeated, tere darbar mein khwaja - but they drop the line unceremoniously and begin another line - sar jhukaate hain auliya. What was so great in mentioning that auliya sar jhukate hain, so what, is that why you feel respect for him? I think the respect should have come from within, not due to seeing how others are respecting him. and then tu hai khwaja - rutaba hai pyara chahne se tujhko mustafa ko paya that xxx is still not clear to my aging ears. and lastly that hai mere peer ka sadqa, tera daman hai thama, tali hai bala hamari, chhaya hai khumar tera, jitna bhi rashq karein beshaq, to ab hai XXX mere khwaja, tere kadmo ko mere rahnuma nahin chhodna gawara. I don't get what exactly is the concept. No rhyming, no poetry, just some words have got hammerred in. It must be the poorest lyrics by Javed. I would say that ARR's voice is also not as sweet enough as he is famed for, there is a rare shrillness, a hollow in ARR's voice that I don't remember having heard in any other song. May be he was trying a new voice but it didn't suit my ears. all the internal aalaaps also are confusing, making it a classical song. They are not even bringing a sense of a trance. And as I already said once that JA music was a personal music and didn't reflect the lavishness of the film. I think I can describe now what I meant by that personal vs lavishness. Listen to the music between 3:40 - 4:05. That Persian sort of. Now, that is what I call a royal music, that has lavishness, that has luxury, that is group music, public music. Also the instrument that stars playing at the backdrop at about 6:10 and continues till the end of song. that single instrument is giving a royal touch to the song. That type of music is what I
Re: Khwaja song - my impression (Re: [arr] Let's keep in mind the attitudes and expo
On 3/14/2009 11:13 AM India Time, _Shamil Sharif_ wrote: and also some of the lyrics he read it was wrong, dear rawat keep hearing, u will be addicted Jai ho!! So, after 15 years of having heard all albums and songs of ARR, now I have to learn how to hypnotize myself till I start liking a song. No thanks. Seems nobody has any answer to the point by point list of why this song is no good. I am facing blind-faith-holders. -- Rawat
Re: Khwaja song - my impression (Re: [arr] Let's keep in mind the attitudes and expo
Ignorance is a bliss. On Sat, Mar 14, 2009 at 6:44 PM, V S Rawat vsra...@gmail.com wrote: On 3/14/2009 11:13 AM India Time, _Shamil Sharif_ wrote: and also some of the lyrics he read it was wrong, dear rawat keep hearing, u will be addicted Jai ho!! So, after 15 years of having heard all albums and songs of ARR, now I have to learn how to hypnotize myself till I start liking a song. No thanks. Seems nobody has any answer to the point by point list of why this song is no good. I am facing blind-faith-holders. -- Rawat
Re: Khwaja song - my impression (Re: [arr] Let's keep in mind the attitudes and expo
Choice, the problem is choice. On Sat, Mar 14, 2009 at 6:43 PM, Gomzy™ gomtesh.upad...@gmail.com wrote: Ignorance is a bliss. On Sat, Mar 14, 2009 at 6:44 PM, V S Rawat vsra...@gmail.com wrote: On 3/14/2009 11:13 AM India Time, _Shamil Sharif_ wrote: and also some of the lyrics he read it was wrong, dear rawat keep hearing, u will be addicted Jai ho!! So, after 15 years of having heard all albums and songs of ARR, now I have to learn how to hypnotize myself till I start liking a song. No thanks. Seems nobody has any answer to the point by point list of why this song is no good. I am facing blind-faith-holders. -- Rawat
Khwaja song - my impression (Re: [arr] Let's keep in mind the attitudes and expo
Anyone liking Khwaja does not make them a blind faith holder. It's a subjective opinion. If you don't like it, fine. If others do, it doesn't make them a blind fan. Arguing you point by point is not going to accomplish anything or convince you otherwise. --- In arrahmanfans@yahoogroups.com, Gomzy gomtesh.upad...@... wrote: Ignorance is a bliss. On Sat, Mar 14, 2009 at 6:44 PM, V S Rawat vsra...@... wrote: On 3/14/2009 11:13 AM India Time, _Shamil Sharif_ wrote: and also some of the lyrics he read it was wrong, dear rawat keep hearing, u will be addicted Jai ho!! So, after 15 years of having heard all albums and songs of ARR, now I have to learn how to hypnotize myself till I start liking a song. No thanks. Seems nobody has any answer to the point by point list of why this song is no good. I am facing blind-faith-holders. -- Rawat
Khwaja song - my impression (Re: [arr] Let's keep in mind the attitudes and expo
2009-03-12
Thread
ramakrisha laxmana subramanian siva gopala acharya iyer .aiyooo amma idli wada dosa sambar chatni .
Hey Rawat - 'Khwaja' ka lyrics is written by Kashif and not Jaaved Akthar. --- In arrahmanfans@yahoogroups.com, V S Rawat vsra...@... wrote: On 3/12/2009 3:11 PM India Time, _Jahanzeb Farooq_ wrote: in fact we watched JA together and during Khwaja mere khwaja as I mentioned that music is by ARR, he said I did not see anything special (sadly enough. may because it was in bad quality. also we know that ARR's music grows but he does not). I am a known JA basher so I thought I can say about this song also. khwaja song might be holding additional value for muslims due to its religious connotations, and for general fans it might have got some high weightage due to the anecdotes of ARR having composed it already and then AG using it in the film. But as a song, I find khwaja song quite barren and monotonous if I can say that. It is a sort of introvert song giving a feel that a person must be singing it within his heart and mind. It is his personal pleasure. Others would not be able to connect to it. Firstly, the song has some 1:20 initial alaaps that are quire boring to say and kill the entire beauty of song that comes after that. It is more like the sounds generated when a player tunes up his instruments before starting to really play it up. Such a long wasted part is a sin in current busy time. Those ya khwaja ji, moinuddin, gareeb nawaz are without any lyrical or music value. So, I think the start itself is badly thought up. But then the song starts with lovely music BUT, BUT BUT poor lyrics. A typical lack of creativity in the monotonous, logically-built up lyrics as is usually the case with Javed Akhtar. Khwaja Mere Khwaja Dil Mein Sama ja Bebaso ki Taqdeer Tu ne hai sawari There is no rhyming, no deep devotion. All that dil mein sama ja type of phrases had been used a 1000 times in cheap ladki-pataao songs in 60s and here he comes up with that in a 21st century devotional song. I would say that the major failure of the song remains in the poor lyrics. Then, it fails in arrangements of vocals. None of the voices carry and ethos and pathos. They are just singing an any song, not a religious song for the most respected muslim personality of Indian subcontinent. pronunciations are also not clear. that bebaso ki taqdeer tu ne hai sanwari, has bebaso and tu ne pronounced so pooorly that one has to strain to hear it and make the meaning of it. Sad that it is our man himself. And then Tere darbaar mein khwaza noor ko mainne dekha has noor pronounced so poorly by our man himself, and then there are alaaps, and then the music gives the impression that the line is going to be repeated, tere darbar mein khwaja - but they drop the line unceremoniously and begin another line- sar jhukaate hain auliya. What was so great in mentioning that auliya sar jhukate hain, so what, is that why you feel respect for him? I think the respect should have come from within, not due to seeing how others are respecting him. and then tu hai khwaja - rutaba hai pyara chahne se tujhko mustafa ko paya that xxx is still not clear to my aging ears. and lastly that hai mere peer ka sadqa, tera daman hai thama, tali hai bala hamari, chhaya hai khumar tera, jitna bhi rashq karein beshaq, to ab hai XXX mere khwaja, tere kadmo ko mere rahnuma nahin chhodna gawara. I don't get what exactly is the concept. No rhyming, no poetry, just some words have got hammerred in. It must be the poorest lyrics by Javed. I would say that ARR's voice is also not as sweet enough as he is famed for, there is a rare shrillness, a hollow in ARR's voice that I don't remember having heard in any other song. May be he was trying a new voice but it didn't suit my ears. all the internal aalaaps also are confusing, making it a classical song. They are not even bringing a sense of a trance. And as I already said once that JA music was a personal music and didn't reflect the lavishness of the film. I think I can describe now what I meant by that personal vs lavishness. Listen to the music between 3:40 - 4:05. That Persian sort of. Now, that is what I call a royal music, that has lavishness, that has luxury, that is group music, public music. Also the instrument that stars playing at the backdrop at about 6:10 and continues till the end of song. that single instrument is giving a royal touch to the song. That type of music is what I expected to be everywhere in JA music and background, but no, we didn't get that. Our man had different ideas about music suitable for the emperor of India. Compare the above two sounds to the sound at 1:20-1:45. Now this 1:20 sound is what I call a personal sound, lacking royal touch. It is a commoner's, a poor man's sound, now suitable for a period film. Seeing so many members liking the song so much, mentioning it as their most fav song, etc., I tried to listen to it
