Re: [Assp-user] PHP tool to view and Sort your Spam/Notspam
If the effectiveness of that feature is diminished due to the type of mail flowing through it or the kind of user using the filter...perhaps it should be re-evaluated from a fresh perspective? The effectiveness is not diminished due to the type of mail flowing through it or the kind of user using the filter. The effectiveness is diminished, if you start to do the valuation manually. It is the wrong approach to discuss - and that is just my meaning.( If I am allowed to a meaning). Fritz - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys -- and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Assp-user mailing list Assp-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/assp-user
Re: [Assp-user] PHP tool to view and Sort your Spam/Notspam
Questions and Answers for users of ASSP Anti-Spam SMTP Proxy assp-user@lists.sourceforge.net schreibt: But that is precisely Michaels point... the effectiveness *was* diminished, due to 2 (I think he said 2) specific users who were *very* heavy senders of 'spammy' email, thus, apparently, 'polluting' the corpus by virtue of a lot of 'spammy' email being automatically added to the ham corpus because it was intentionally sent by those two users. It was the *fact* that more and more spam was getting by ASSP that started Michael looking into *why* - and he discovered why, and then developed a solution *which* *worked*. You can get something to work (compared to what?) without being a solution. Users can be excluded from contributing, that is standard procedure in ASSP. It is a fact, that the power of 10/20 million word pairs is always underestimated. - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys -- and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Assp-user mailing list Assp-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/assp-user
Re: [Assp-user] PHP tool to view and Sort your Spam/Notspam
I have to say that I was thinking the same thing. I would probably put those few users in the unprocessed addresses list and be done with them. Roger -Original Message- From: Fritz Borgstedt [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Users can be excluded from contributing, that is standard procedure in ASSP. - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys -- and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Assp-user mailing list Assp-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/assp-user
Re: [Assp-user] PHP tool to view and Sort your Spam/Notspam
That's a great idea, my only problem is *finding* which of my 1,000+ users is causing the problem. Granted, in a smaller environment, this is a lot easier, but when you have this many users behind ASSP...it becomes difficult to track who the problem-children are. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Roger Stevenson Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2006 6:39 AM To: 'Questions and Answers for users of ASSP Anti-Spam SMTP Proxy' Subject: Re: [Assp-user] PHP tool to view and Sort your Spam/Notspam I have to say that I was thinking the same thing. I would probably put those few users in the unprocessed addresses list and be done with them. Roger -Original Message- From: Fritz Borgstedt [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Users can be excluded from contributing, that is standard procedure in ASSP. - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys -- and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDE V ___ Assp-user mailing list Assp-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/assp-user - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys -- and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Assp-user mailing list Assp-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/assp-user
Re: [Assp-user] PHP tool to view and Sort your Spam/Notspam
I don't fiddle, and I hope you aren't implying that I do - or that I Needlessly defrag my mail server HD. ;-) I only touch it when Something isn't working properly, such new spam is making its way in or False positives/negatives. I do closely monitor what is considered Spam. I trap it to a public folder on my Exchange server for my review. Assp is a set and forget system - at least for me. No wasn't suggesting you do needlessly. Its just with the many questions posted here relating to the corpus I get that feeling that some users seem to look for problems where there isnt with the corpus. It manages itself - Generally. And that has been true for me as well, except for this current Implementation, until I took the necessary steps to deal with the corpus Pollution - after which it has been operating normally. Yes I cant speak for your implementation but again looking at it from here your pollution should be like a few drops in a lake and you shouldn't be able to taste it! But I accept your situation may be different. I do use internal mail here for sending more jokes, videos and mp3's than real mail mail going out. Again this wont be identical to your setup. - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your Opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys -- and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Assp-user mailing list Assp-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/assp-user - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys -- and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Assp-user mailing list Assp-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/assp-user
Re: [Assp-user] PHP tool to view and Sort your Spam/Notspam
Charles Marcus wrote: Hi Fritz, I'm only involved in this discussion as an interested bystander. I am very curious as to whether or not Michael has stumbled onto one of the biggest problems with Bayesian spam filters, and if he has also developed a brilliant solution using a mechanism of ASSP. I don't know if it was "brilliant", but as far as I know it worked to counter-act the problem I saw. It was the *fact* that more and more spam was getting by ASSP that started Michael looking into *why* - and he discovered why, and then developed a solution *which* *worked*. It either worked or by massive coincidence the problem went away. To see an immediate effect, I had to manually search for and remove messages from the corpus that blocked my criteria. I did this on a scripted nightly basis until the redlist functionality was recently altered to prevent corpus adding. I certainly think your opinion has much more weight than anyone else's here, and far be it from me to even seriously consider trying to challenge you on it, but as a user, this issue does interest me. Whether or not it comes out in my emails, I agree. I am having a hard time understanding if Fritz simply doesn't believe me and my specific circumstance or doesn't believe that the issue could possibly exist at all. Either way, I hold a high respect for Fritz and his opinion on this as well. Certainly this situation doesn't hold true for everyone. It didn't for me either at previous companies that I set up ASSP for - but certainly the situation *can* exist. So, what would you suggest as the best approach for Michael (and others) to deal with this particular, peculiar situation? That I would also like to know. Its a fact that for some people at certain installations, Bayesian scoring can become useless. This is typically from improper whiltelisting (such as not redlisting auto-replies etc). I have been running ASSP for years, and I know how to take those precautions. At my current location, I restarted ASSP's database (3) times, running it with subjects as file names so I could visually determine why my corpus continued to degrade each time. I also closely monitored all my lists (especially the whitelist) for improper listings. Removing (and preventing) what I saw as "pollution" was the only means I could come up with that was effective at preventing corpus degradation. - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys -- and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV___ Assp-user mailing list Assp-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/assp-user
Re: [Assp-user] PHP tool to view and Sort your Spam/Notspam
Roger Stevenson wrote: I have to say that I was thinking the same thing. I would probably put those few users in the unprocessed addresses list and be done with them. I considered that as a solution well, but then there is no whitelisting of new contacts. I cannot do that for those users, no matter how problematic. Wouldn't NPing (I prefer the newer redlisting) be a more elegant solution that essentially ignoring everything the user does instead of just specifically troublesome content? - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys -- and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Assp-user mailing list Assp-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/assp-user
Re: [Assp-user] PHP tool to view and Sort your Spam/Notspam
Charles Marcus wrote: Ahh... ok, well then, that makes sense... Michael, did you have a specific reason for not just putting these users on the np list? Because they work in a customer service center and make many new contacts daily that need to be whitelisted and added to the corpus, as it is all business related. Additional details about why I didn't use the NP list are in the previous reply I sent. Its a valid solution, but more of a jackhammer solution, when all I needed was a chisel. - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys -- and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV___ Assp-user mailing list Assp-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/assp-user
Re: [Assp-user] PHP tool to view and Sort your Spam/Notspam
Whether or not it comes out in my emails, I agree. I am having a hard time understanding if Fritz simply doesn't believe me and my specific circumstance or doesn't believe that the issue could possibly exist at all. Either way, I hold a high respect for Fritz and his opinion on this as well. Certainly this situation doesn't hold true for everyone. It didn't for me either at previous companies that I set up ASSP for - but certainly the situation *can* exist. I believe you , that you saw a special situation. Usually when I write I do not believe, I do not doubt personal honesty. I saw it as very unfortunate, to tell other people to do similar things without having a real good (and different) theory of operation. That was the reason, I argued in public here. Fritz - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys -- and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Assp-user mailing list Assp-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/assp-user
Re: [Assp-user] PHP tool to view and Sort your Spam/Notspam
Charles Marcus wrote: I understand completely now... Maybe - Michael can you confirm - would the solution be as simple as having a new option where the user can still have email addresses in outgoing messages added to the whitelist, but *not* have the messages themselves contributing to the ham corpus? I don't think so. For my situation, I know that certainly some of the communications will be legit - and I wouldn't want them to not enter the corpus. Plus I still have all the inbound replies to the pollution conversations - and how would ASSP be able to differentiate that? I don't think the upkeep of another list is worth the effort. To elaborate more on what I do: I have analyzed many of the problematic emails that have entered my corpus. My company is legal profession related, so the corpus is focused toward that. Wildly personal email totally breaks away from that pattern, so I use the redRe to ignore messages that contain specific phrases. I see repeating greeting phrases of personal messages that do not conform to our business email, so I redRe them. I match about 30 phrases along those lines. Those few problem users talk about sex, drugs and use profanity, so I redRe similar words in that regards too. YMMV. Only do it if you know what you are doing and hod understanding how it might effect your corpus. - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys -- and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Assp-user mailing list Assp-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/assp-user
Re: [Assp-user] PHP tool to view and Sort your Spam/Notspam
At 2:11 PM +0200 10/10/06, Fritz Borgstedt wrote: Questions and Answers for users of ASSP Anti-Spam SMTP Proxy assp-user@lists.sourceforge.net schreibt: But that is precisely Michaels point... the effectiveness *was* diminished, due to 2 (I think he said 2) specific users who were *very* heavy senders of 'spammy' email, thus, apparently, 'polluting' the corpus by virtue of a lot of 'spammy' email being automatically added to the ham corpus because it was intentionally sent by those two users. It was the *fact* that more and more spam was getting by ASSP that started Michael looking into *why* - and he discovered why, and then developed a solution *which* *worked*. You can get something to work (compared to what?) without being a solution. Users can be excluded from contributing, that is standard procedure in ASSP. So really, it's just a question of which method is used to manually remove the offending party's polluting mail. You choose to redlist or put those people on unprocessed. Michael chose to examine the mail itself, determine the characteristics that cause the most pollution on his particular system, and wrote a regex to keep those specific emails out of his corpus. In some ways his method may be more effective as 'unpolluting' mail from those users will still be added to the corpus, and 'polluting' email from others on the system may be deterred. Both methods have merit. Leave it up to the admin to decide which method works best for them. -- Bill Christensen http://greenbuilder.com/contact/ Green Building Professionals Directory: http://directory.greenbuilder.com Sustainable Building Calendar: http://www.greenbuilder.com/calendar/ Green Real Estate: http://www.greenbuilder.com/realestate/ Straw Bale Registry: http://sbregistry.greenbuilder.com/ Books/videos/software: http://bookstore.greenbuilder.com/ - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ Assp-user mailing list Assp-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/assp-user
Re: [Assp-user] PHP tool to view and Sort your Spam/Notspam
I cant see that it would give you an issue. 65 users would get between 0 and 6500 spams a day. Nearer the high end if my mailbox is anything to go by. This would drowned your few users internal emails. Then you can also have a few collection address. I have one I used in usenet well over 5 years ago that collects spam. Some on web pages and some I signed up to porn which without going through verification collect spam. Assp does the rest. People seem to have a need to fiddle with assp, I have yet to understand why They complain about the bayesian, but not all implementation are the same. Assp is a set and forget system - at least for me. Back in its early days before test mode, email interface and a spam collection to prime it. It was just set away live and worked. ---Original Message--- From: Micheal Espinola Jr Date: 10/09/06 16:20:43 To: Questions and Answers for users of ASSP Anti-Spam SMTP Proxy Subject: Re: [Assp-user] PHP tool to view and Sort your Spam/Notspam Paul, I'm curious to know if I have explained myself well enough for you to Understand my reasoning. I value your (as well as Fritz's, and anyone else's) opinion about this. Perhaps I am not taking the most appropriate approach for resolving this Type of issue - and for that I am open to constructive criticism and Suggestions. But until I hear something that is actually constructive, I will continue to believe what I did (and still do) was correct based On the edict, the ends justify the means - as it indeed worked to Resolve my pollution issue. Micheal Espinola Jr wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You've lost me there. This is mail being analysed and adding to the picture of your particular blend of mail. Where is the 'incorrect bolstering' ? If it's mail, it gets scored. You can't dictate what ends up in spamdb. Some final clarification to illustrate why I consider it 'incorrect bolstering' - The users that cause pollution in my corpus frequently send more email per day than the rest of the company combined, so they are heavily influencing the balance of the corpus. The particular company that this is happening at has approx 65 employees, with ~5 employees that use their email like Instant Messaging, and are who I believe the cause of the pollution I have been referring to. - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your Opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys -- and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Assp-user mailing list Assp-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/assp-user - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys -- and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Assp-user mailing list Assp-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/assp-user
Re: [Assp-user] PHP tool to view and Sort your Spam/Notspam
Micheal Espinola Jr wrote: Paul, I'm curious to know if I have explained myself well enough for you to understand my reasoning. I value your (as well as Fritz's, and anyone else's) opinion about this. Hi Michael, I, for one, believe I understand your situation, and think your solutions was both creative and appropriate to the circumstances. I also understand Fritz's blanket response that this is the 'wrong thing' to do. I think the problem is, you have encountered a very unusual situation that Fritz hasn't, and took it upon yourself to find a way to solve it, and did so. That said, I think that Fritz's response applies to probably 99% of the implementations out there. So, you are *both* right. At least, thats mho... -- Best regards, Charles - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys -- and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Assp-user mailing list Assp-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/assp-user
Re: [Assp-user] PHP tool to view and Sort your Spam/Notspam
I agree to what's below. I would say, though, that the situation Michael describes will *probably* become more prominent. I have actually seen a small degree of this in my own network that has ~1,000 mailboxes behind it. Add to this the fact that spammers are becoming smarter in what they do, and that means the spam of the future will *look* more and more like legitimate mail...similar words, similar phrases...the kind of thing any Bayesian filter checks for. While this is a small problem now, I can see where this could easily grow and become a large problem for a Bayesian filter. I'm glad ASSP has way more than just Bayesian analysis (delaying was simply the most brilliant move of the century), but Bayesian is still the last ditch effort to figure out if a message is good or bad. If the effectiveness of that feature is diminished due to the type of mail flowing through it or the kind of user using the filter...perhaps it should be re-evaluated from a fresh perspective? We can't turn a blind eye to this sort of thing. That's all I'm trying to say. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Charles Marcus Sent: Monday, October 09, 2006 2:26 PM To: Questions and Answers for users of ASSP Anti-Spam SMTP Proxy Subject: Re: [Assp-user] PHP tool to view and Sort your Spam/Notspam Micheal Espinola Jr wrote: Paul, I'm curious to know if I have explained myself well enough for you to understand my reasoning. I value your (as well as Fritz's, and anyone else's) opinion about this. Hi Michael, I, for one, believe I understand your situation, and think your solutions was both creative and appropriate to the circumstances. I also understand Fritz's blanket response that this is the 'wrong thing' to do. I think the problem is, you have encountered a very unusual situation that Fritz hasn't, and took it upon yourself to find a way to solve it, and did so. That said, I think that Fritz's response applies to probably 99% of the implementations out there. So, you are *both* right. At least, thats mho... -- Best regards, Charles - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys -- and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDE V ___ Assp-user mailing list Assp-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/assp-user - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys -- and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Assp-user mailing list Assp-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/assp-user
Re: [Assp-user] PHP tool to view and Sort your Spam/Notspam
Is this view too simplistic? No, it is the right view and the core of the discussion I have with ME. fb - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys -- and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Assp-user mailing list Assp-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/assp-user
Re: [Assp-user] PHP tool to view and Sort your Spam/Notspam
I find great humor in the FWOHW policy that is in place here. LOL!!! FWOHW = Fritz's way or the highway. Thanks for the laugh Fritz. You never cease to keep my chuckling. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:assp-user- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Fritz Borgstedt Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 2:18 AM To: Questions and Answers for users of ASSP Anti-Spam SMTP Proxy Subject: Re: [Assp-user] PHP tool to view and Sort your Spam/Notspam Is this view too simplistic? No, it is the right view and the core of the discussion I have with ME. fb - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys -- and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Assp-user mailing list Assp-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/assp-user - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys -- and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Assp-user mailing list Assp-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/assp-user
Re: [Assp-user] PHP tool to view and Sort your Spam/Notspam
I find great humor in the FWOHW policy that is in place here. LOL!!! FWOHW = Fritz's way or the highway. Thanks for the laugh Fritz. You never cease to keep my chuckling. Obviously I could do something for you. How nice. fb - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys -- and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Assp-user mailing list Assp-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/assp-user
Re: [Assp-user] PHP tool to view and Sort your Spam/Notspam
On 7 Oct 2006 at 11:30, Micheal Espinola Jr wrote: To paraphrase what I have said in previous disagreements with you: At most locations I have implemented ASSP, taking additional steps to prevent pollution was not necessary - but a few implementations it *is*. To help me understand this, please could you define what you mean by 'pollution' and how others could identify if it has happened to them. Thanks, Paul - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys -- and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Assp-user mailing list Assp-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/assp-user
Re: [Assp-user] PHP tool to view and Sort your Spam/Notspam
Fritz Borgstedt wrote: Black and White? Sometimes it is right and wrong. But your description of the need for defragmentation confirms what I said, so I will refrain from discussion on the board here. *sigh*... and again you confirm your black and white intolerance to subjects you either don't understand or agree with. I put this to you: Ask any File Server administrator or on-line game player if defragging their hard drives makes any difference to performance. You will hear a resounding yes. I did not say there is always a need to defragment. But there most certainly is a need in many cases. - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys -- and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Assp-user mailing list Assp-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/assp-user
Re: [Assp-user] PHP tool to view and Sort your Spam/Notspam
I put this to you: Ask any File Server administrator or on-line game player if defragging their hard drives makes any difference to performance. You will hear a resounding yes. My last answer to you: I did not say that defragmentation will not increase performance (sometimes). I did say, that it is wrong to work on the problem by manually defragment the HD. Defragmentation is very shortliving and can even degrade performance. The real solution for such a situation is a bigger volume and a simple copy of the HD. fb - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys -- and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Assp-user mailing list Assp-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/assp-user
Re: [Assp-user] PHP tool to view and Sort your Spam/Notspam
Fritz Borgstedt wrote: My last answer to you: I did not say that defragmentation will not increase performance (sometimes). I did say, that it is wrong to work on the problem by manually defragment the HD. Defragmentation is very shortliving and can even degrade performance. The real solution for such a situation is a bigger volume and a simple copy of the HD. Oh, so it's that large volumes don't fragment files? Large files don't still get broken into fragments and stored at different physical locations on your HD's? Wow, your HD's must be huge! And your OS so incredibly smart that it never breaks a file into segments, regardless of where space is available... Amazing! So, in the past 30 years all you have done is purchased new HD's instead of defragging if necessary? I don't think my employer would go for that on our 350gb RAID-5 server. They'd much prefer I defrag it. You continue to speak in black and white terms. Defragging is short-lived? That only depends on how you read/write/delete data to it. That depends solely based on its usage - and the performance you are willing to subjugate yourself to. This is silly. None of this has any direct relation to the topic - so I really hope that was your last answer. - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys -- and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Assp-user mailing list Assp-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/assp-user
Re: [Assp-user] PHP tool to view and Sort your Spam/Notspam
So, in the past 30 years all you have done is purchased new HD's instead of defragging if necessary? I No, I (my company) even build some of them and sold them. fb - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys -- and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Assp-user mailing list Assp-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/assp-user
Re: [Assp-user] PHP tool to view and Sort your Spam/Notspam
Charles Marcus wrote: This is very interesting, Michael, because I agree, Bayesian based systems definitely have always seemed to have problems in my experience (start out pretty good, then go downhill from there), and maybe what you are describing is the precise reason for it. It would be awesome if you could find the time to write up a little how-to for this and put it up on the wiki (or have you done so already?), complete with some example regex's that you have found to help. Anyway, thanks already for everything you've described up to now. You're welcome. I only hope its useful information to the minority of us that have experienced this problem. I count 8-10 people so far that are in agreement with my off-line of the list, but I know there are countless more that use other Bayesian-based products. I don't like to bring this issue up, because as Fritz *rightfully* points out, this is not the way the Bayesian filtering is meant to function. But, perhaps that needs to be re-thought, because in some organizations Bayesian functionality begins to spiral degrade after a few months of normal use. I have thought about writing something up for the Wiki specifically in regards to this issue, but this is still more of a personal hypothesis than a fact - and I don't want to add needless confusion to any new or existing users until there is more of a consensus that this is indeed a problem and viable solution. When I get to writing an article explaining the reRe, I will also add some of my basic Regular Expressions as I did with the bombRe and scriptRe article - but I won't be adding everything that I use to avoid pollution, as it would not be applicable to all users. - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys -- and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Assp-user mailing list Assp-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/assp-user
Re: [Assp-user] PHP tool to view and Sort your Spam/Notspam
Questions and Answers for users of ASSP Anti-Spam SMTP Proxy assp-user@lists.sourceforge.net schreibt: I don't like to bring this issue up, because as Fritz *rightfully* points out, this is not the way the Bayesian filtering is meant to function. But, perhaps that needs to be re-thought, because in some organizations Bayesian functionality begins to spiral degrade after a few months of normal use. It *is* already rethought and we have built in lots of stuff to have the database not degrading. And it is working *automatically*. Your approach is the same as I see with people who loves to tune their harddisk (compressing, moving, whatver). After some time they really need all the work again and again. You see my different approach: I never tuned a HD in 30 years. - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys -- and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Assp-user mailing list Assp-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/assp-user
[Assp-user] PHP tool to view and Sort your Spam/Notspam
Hello, to monitor my Spam and Notspam folders and to resort it, I made a small PHP-Script, to view the spam and have a button to move it to the error directory. If you like to use the script, you have to run it from an webserver on the same maschien as assp. http://www.matti.name/assp/spamcontroll.zip Matti - Matti Haack - Hit Haack IT Service Gmbh Poltlbauer Weg 4, D-94036 Passau +49 851 50477-22 Fax: +49 851 50477-29 http://www.haack-it.de Dieses Dokument ist ausschliesslich fuer den Adressaten bestimmt. Jegliche Art von Reproduktion, Verbreitung, Vervielfaeltigung, Modifikation, Verteilung und/oder Publikation dieser E-Mail-Nachricht ist untersagt, soweit dies nicht ausdruecklich genehmigt wurde. Jegliche Haftung fur Ansprueche, die aufgrund der Kommunikation per E-Mail begruendet werden koennten, ist ausgeschlossen, soweit der Haftungsausschluss gesetzlich zulaessig ist. -- Ausgehende E-Mail wurde auf Viren gescannt -- - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys -- and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Assp-user mailing list Assp-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/assp-user
Re: [Assp-user] PHP tool to view and Sort your Spam/Notspam
Is it worth it to install PHP to try this I have over 10K emails in both spam/ham folders will it process that many (I'd really love to have some kind of tool for this) Thanks - Original Message - From: Matti Haack [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Questions and Answers for users of ASSP Anti-Spam SMTP Proxy assp-user@lists.sourceforge.net Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2006 9:19 AM Subject: [Assp-user] PHP tool to view and Sort your Spam/Notspam Hello, to monitor my Spam and Notspam folders and to resort it, I made a small PHP-Script, to view the spam and have a button to move it to the error directory. If you like to use the script, you have to run it from an webserver on the same maschien as assp. http://www.matti.name/assp/spamcontroll.zip Matti - Matti Haack - Hit Haack IT Service Gmbh Poltlbauer Weg 4, D-94036 Passau +49 851 50477-22 Fax: +49 851 50477-29 http://www.haack-it.de Dieses Dokument ist ausschliesslich fuer den Adressaten bestimmt. Jegliche Art von Reproduktion, Verbreitung, Vervielfaeltigung, Modifikation, Verteilung und/oder Publikation dieser E-Mail-Nachricht ist untersagt, soweit dies nicht ausdruecklich genehmigt wurde. Jegliche Haftung fur Ansprueche, die aufgrund der Kommunikation per E-Mail begruendet werden koennten, ist ausgeschlossen, soweit der Haftungsausschluss gesetzlich zulaessig ist. -- Ausgehende E-Mail wurde auf Viren gescannt -- - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys -- and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Assp-user mailing list Assp-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/assp-user - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys -- and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Assp-user mailing list Assp-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/assp-user
Re: [Assp-user] PHP tool to view and Sort your Spam/Notspam
Internet Chicago Staff wrote: Is it worth it to install PHP to try this I have over 10K emails in both spam/ham folders will it process that many (I'd really love to have some kind of tool for this) If you are using ASSP appropriately, there is no need for a tool like this. - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys -- and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Assp-user mailing list Assp-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/assp-user
Re: [Assp-user] PHP tool to view and Sort your Spam/Notspam
Lars Troen wrote: Micheal, I don't think this would be a good fit in all organizations. We avoided using the testmode completely and it didn't put a huge burden upon me to sort things out. In our old systems (before running ASSP in full production) I setup forwarding on certain spam harvesting addresses so that they would be delivered to the ASSP server. I also routed outgoing email through assp so the whitelist could get built and the notspam corpus could get built. After 1,5 month I had enough content in my corpus so I could run ASSP without the need for disturbing my users with these things. No argument there. But the sendAllSpam address could still be utilized without having to resort to manual file manipulation. The point I was trying to drive home is that it can all be done through the email interface. Internet Chicago Staff seemed to be under the impression that this was not possible. I take it by your description that you did not have incoming mail route through ASSP during your setup phase? - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys -- and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Assp-user mailing list Assp-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/assp-user
Re: [Assp-user] PHP tool to view and Sort your Spam/Notspam
MEJ If you are using ASSP appropriately, there is no need for a tool like this. How do you know taht you use it apprpriatly :) Especially in the beginning, I had lots of false positives, so I decided to make these tool. Now its only good to prove that everytink looks fine and that there are no false positives in the spam/Notspam folders. As my customers didn't care really about feeding ASSP, I still can sort out some spam manually... Matti - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys -- and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Assp-user mailing list Assp-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/assp-user
Re: [Assp-user] PHP tool to view and Sort your Spam/Notspam
You don't have to manage it as an administrator, your users (and you too if your received spam) do on an individual basis. Micheal, I don't think this would be a good fit in all organizations. We avoided using the testmode completely and it didn't put a huge burden upon me to sort things out. In our old systems (before running ASSP in full production) I setup forwarding on certain spam harvesting addresses so that they would be delivered to the ASSP server. I also routed outgoing email through assp so the whitelist could get built and the notspam corpus could get built. After 1,5 month I had enough content in my corpus so I could run ASSP without the need for disturbing my users with these things. Lars - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys -- and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Assp-user mailing list Assp-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/assp-user
Re: [Assp-user] PHP tool to view and Sort your Spam/Notspam
Actually I'm under the impression that the corpus can and does become corrupt. My inner geek thinks I should look at it on occasion. It's just extraordinarily difficult to do that with such a large number of files, as for the script, I tried it, it times-out so that's not really going to help me either at this point. - Original Message - From: Micheal Espinola Jr [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Questions and Answers for users of ASSP Anti-Spam SMTP Proxy assp-user@lists.sourceforge.net Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2006 5:06 PM Subject: Re: [Assp-user] PHP tool to view and Sort your Spam/Notspam Lars Troen wrote: Micheal, I don't think this would be a good fit in all organizations. We avoided using the testmode completely and it didn't put a huge burden upon me to sort things out. In our old systems (before running ASSP in full production) I setup forwarding on certain spam harvesting addresses so that they would be delivered to the ASSP server. I also routed outgoing email through assp so the whitelist could get built and the notspam corpus could get built. After 1,5 month I had enough content in my corpus so I could run ASSP without the need for disturbing my users with these things. No argument there. But the sendAllSpam address could still be utilized without having to resort to manual file manipulation. The point I was trying to drive home is that it can all be done through the email interface. Internet Chicago Staff seemed to be under the impression that this was not possible. I take it by your description that you did not have incoming mail route through ASSP during your setup phase? - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys -- and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Assp-user mailing list Assp-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/assp-user - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys -- and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Assp-user mailing list Assp-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/assp-user
