Re: [Ayatana] Dash search vs Alt+F2 in 11.10
But Alt-F1 triggers keyboard navigation of the launcher, not the dash. You can switch directlyfrom there to either dash or the Run dialog without any other action. To open the dash, briefly press and release Super, which is a very different shortcut from Alt-F2, and not likely to be confused. It is true they look identical and serve very different functions, but be cause they are each accessed so differently, it's unlikely that a user would open one when they meant to open the other. And one might use killall Thunderbird to terminate Thunderbird if it freezes. It was a rhetorical example, but the point is that sometimes it is useful to run a command without opening a terminal, particularly if you would then immediately close the terminal. If I want to actually run a command in a terminal, then I place a terminal shortcut in launcher position #7 (for example) and the can subsequently press Super-7 to open the terminal, at which point I can run my command. This is equally as fast as the Windows examples, and doesn't rely on exposing the command prompt to new users (which is a good thing). For one-offs, I can still use Alt-F2. On Sep 27, 2011 3:58 PM, Stefanos A. stapos...@gmail.com wrote: 2011/9/27 Ian Santopietro isan...@gmail.com Adding a 5th stop just makes it harder to get to it. The point of having the separate dashes, as I see it, is to provide very quick access to both pieces of very important functionality. Alt-F2 will still be available. I suggested the *addition* of a way to move between Alt-F1 and Alt-F2 modes, not the removal of Alt-F2. See my previous post for the rationale. There isn't really a reason to switch from one to the other, since they behave differently (i.e. you wouldn't use Alt+F2 to open firefox, and you wouldn't use Dash to run killall thunderbird). They behave differently but they look identical - the current watertight division is completely artificial. Try explaining the difference between Alt-F1 and Alt-F2 to a new user in a single sentence (no, really, try!) Besides, why wouldn't I use the Dash to killall thunderbird? What if I press Alt-F1 instead of Alt-F2 by mistake? Should I close the Dash, reopen it in Alt-F2 mode and retype the whole command? That's not very user-friendly (and, yes, this happens to me from time to time). Gnome Do used to support this seamlessly and effortlessly, by offering an execute command in terminal option along with launch application and search files. There is very little reason why the Dash supports the latter two in the same way but compartmentalizes the first into a separate place. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Dash search vs Alt+F2 in 11.10
Den 28. sep. 2011 11:51, skrev Ian Santopietro: But Alt-F1 triggers keyboard navigation of the launcher, not the dash. You can switch directlyfrom there to either dash or the Run dialog without any other action. To open the dash, briefly press and release Super, which is a very different shortcut from Alt-F2, and not likely to be confused. It is true they look identical and serve very different functions, but be cause they are each accessed so differently, it's unlikely that a user would open one when they meant to open the other. Agreed. And one might use killall Thunderbird to terminate Thunderbird if it freezes. It was a rhetorical One might do that, but it would have little effect. :) example, but the point is that sometimes it is useful to run a command without opening a terminal, particularly if you would then immediately close the terminal. If I want to actually run a command in a terminal, then I place a terminal shortcut in launcher position #7 (for example) and the can subsequently press Super-7 to open the terminal, at which point I can run my command. I think that's the proper way to do it. I don't think I've ever checked the checkbox in the old alt+f2 dialog to run a command in a terminal. And back then, that was usually much faster to open than the terminal. It's just never been comfortable and I'm glad that option is gone. This is equally as fast as the Windows examples, and doesn't rely on exposing the command prompt to new users (which is a good thing). For one-offs, I can still use Alt-F2. Ah, a voice of reason. :) Jo-Erlend Schinstad ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Dash search vs Alt+F2 in 11.10
It may sound off-topic, but it's related I think: Up until Beta 2 was released, I had this bug (I don't know if it's fixed, as I had to do a clean install on my laptop and didn't have time to install Beta 2 yet). When I installed Gnome-Shell (yes, blasphemer) Alt-F2 did NOT work there at all. Somehow, I think Alt-F2 is too strongly tied to Unity and it just did not work with Gnome-Shell on Ubuntu 11.10 Beta 1 (it's possible that it would not work on any other DE but Unity). Is Canonical's position that Gnome-Shell is not supported, or should the dev's make effort to have this functionality (and others, possibly, but that would be really off-topic to discuss here) work with Gnome-Shell (and other DE's a user might install) as well? I think it all comes to how Alt-F2 is implemented and therefore it is on-topic ;) Eylem On Wed, Sep 28, 2011 at 6:31 AM, Jo-Erlend Schinstad joerlend.schins...@gmail.com wrote: Den 28. sep. 2011 11:51, skrev Ian Santopietro: But Alt-F1 triggers keyboard navigation of the launcher, not the dash. You can switch directlyfrom there to either dash or the Run dialog without any other action. To open the dash, briefly press and release Super, which is a very different shortcut from Alt-F2, and not likely to be confused. It is true they look identical and serve very different functions, but be cause they are each accessed so differently, it's unlikely that a user would open one when they meant to open the other. Agreed. And one might use killall Thunderbird to terminate Thunderbird if it freezes. It was a rhetorical One might do that, but it would have little effect. :) example, but the point is that sometimes it is useful to run a command without opening a terminal, particularly if you would then immediately close the terminal. If I want to actually run a command in a terminal, then I place a terminal shortcut in launcher position #7 (for example) and the can subsequently press Super-7 to open the terminal, at which point I can run my command. I think that's the proper way to do it. I don't think I've ever checked the checkbox in the old alt+f2 dialog to run a command in a terminal. And back then, that was usually much faster to open than the terminal. It's just never been comfortable and I'm glad that option is gone. This is equally as fast as the Windows examples, and doesn't rely on exposing the command prompt to new users (which is a good thing). For one-offs, I can still use Alt-F2. Ah, a voice of reason. :) Jo-Erlend Schinstad ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Dash search vs Alt+F2 in 11.10
2011/9/28 Ian Santopietro isan...@gmail.com But Alt-F1 triggers keyboard navigation of the launcher, not the dash. You can switch directlyfrom there to either dash or the Run dialog without any other action. To open the dash, briefly press and release Super, which is a very different shortcut from Alt-F2, and not likely to be confused. It is true they look identical and serve very different functions, but be cause they are each accessed so differently, it's unlikely that a user would open one when they meant to open the other. You are right, please replace all my Alt-F1 references by Super. That's what you get for writing without coffee in the morning. As for it being unlikely, I'd argue that it isn't. There are many times where I hit Super only to decide I'd rather enter a command rather than launch an application. Right now it's impossible to mode-switch easily, because you have to close and reopen the Dash. This fells ugly. And one might use killall Thunderbird to terminate Thunderbird if it freezes. It was a rhetorical example, but the point is that sometimes it is useful to run a command without opening a terminal, particularly if you would then immediately close the terminal. Indeed, which is why I use the Alt-F2 prompt. What I am arguing for is a way to access Alt-F2 functionality from the main Dash. Several ways were presented. My favourite so far: Enter key launches application (as now); Ctrl+Enter interprets the text as a command. Simple and intuitive. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Dash search vs Alt+F2 in 11.10
On 28 September 2011 07:48, Eylem Koca eylemk...@gmail.com wrote: It may sound off-topic, but it's related I think: Up until Beta 2 was released, I had this bug (I don't know if it's fixed, as I had to do a clean install on my laptop and didn't have time to install Beta 2 yet). When I installed Gnome-Shell (yes, blasphemer) Alt-F2 did NOT work there at all. Somehow, I think Alt-F2 is too strongly tied to Unity and it just did not work with Gnome-Shell on Ubuntu 11.10 Beta 1 (it's possible that it would not work on any other DE but Unity). Is Canonical's position that Gnome-Shell is not supported, or should the dev's make effort to have this functionality (and others, possibly, but that would be really off-topic to discuss here) work with Gnome-Shell (and other DE's a user might install) as well? I think it all comes to how Alt-F2 is implemented and therefore it is on-topic ;) The broken keyboard shortcuts bug in GNOME Shell is http://pad.lv/856884 and is a problem in Compiz. You can workaround it with steps 1 and 2 on the bug's test case. Jeremy ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Dash search vs Alt+F2 in 11.10
It is simple, but it isn't intuitive. Pressing enter (in combination with any other key) indicates that you want to do an action with the item selected on the screen. We don't want the dash to search commands, as this is not end-user friendly. A new user should never have to know what a command is, and if our simple launcher exposes it to them, we've lost one battle right there. You can't make it hidden either, since then it isn't clear what exactly will be done, which is also bad design. With present and past Alt+F2 implementations, you can always see what exactly will run when you press enter. The old Gnome-panel Run Command dialog was dedicated to this. The new Unity implementation does this and tells you visually what will happen by presenting the command as a search result. And, this would likely include removing the standard Alt+F2 access, since having both would be redundant and bloated. This brings back the whole problem that Unity's Alt+F2 solved in the first place. On Wed, Sep 28, 2011 at 12:54, Stefanos A. stapos...@gmail.com wrote: 2011/9/28 Ian Santopietro isan...@gmail.com But Alt-F1 triggers keyboard navigation of the launcher, not the dash. You can switch directlyfrom there to either dash or the Run dialog without any other action. To open the dash, briefly press and release Super, which is a very different shortcut from Alt-F2, and not likely to be confused. It is true they look identical and serve very different functions, but be cause they are each accessed so differently, it's unlikely that a user would open one when they meant to open the other. You are right, please replace all my Alt-F1 references by Super. That's what you get for writing without coffee in the morning. As for it being unlikely, I'd argue that it isn't. There are many times where I hit Super only to decide I'd rather enter a command rather than launch an application. Right now it's impossible to mode-switch easily, because you have to close and reopen the Dash. This fells ugly. And one might use killall Thunderbird to terminate Thunderbird if it freezes. It was a rhetorical example, but the point is that sometimes it is useful to run a command without opening a terminal, particularly if you would then immediately close the terminal. Indeed, which is why I use the Alt-F2 prompt. What I am arguing for is a way to access Alt-F2 functionality from the main Dash. Several ways were presented. My favourite so far: Enter key launches application (as now); Ctrl+Enter interprets the text as a command. Simple and intuitive. -- Ian Santopietro *Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html* Eala Earendel enlga beorohtast Ofer middangeard monnum sended Pa gur yv y porthaur? Public GPG key (RSA): http://keyserver.ubuntu.com:11371/pks/lookup?op=getsearch=0x412F52DB1BBF1234 ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Dash search vs Alt+F2 in 11.10
2011/9/28 Ian Santopietro isan...@gmail.com It is simple, but it isn't intuitive. Pressing enter (in combination with any other key) indicates that you want to do an action with the item selected on the screen. We don't want the dash to search commands, as this is not end-user friendly. A new user should never have to know what a command is, and if our simple launcher exposes it to them, we've lost one battle right there. In the Ctrl+Enter suggestion, the Dash will work exactly as before (no searching commands). It will function identically to the current implementation, visually and functionally, with a single difference: Ctrl+Enter will execute the search string directly as a command. New users won't be confused, as nothing will change with regards to them. Advanced users won't be annoyed by closing and reopening the Dash when switching between searching applications and executing commands. I'm not saying this is the best approach, just a good middle ground between the various suggestions in this thread. In fact, the best approach I've ever seen is the one taken by Gnome Do: one of the search results it displays is execute command in terminal. This combines the current Dash functionality (searching applications) with Alt-F2 seamlessly and expands on it by opening a terminal window automatically. Since this option is usually displayed last, new users aren't confused (since the first 1 or 2 options almost always contain what they were searching for) and advanced users are not annoying (since they can press up and enter to execute the command directly). Maybe something similar could be implemented in the Dash? ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Dash search vs Alt+F2 in 11.10
Den 28. sep. 2011 20:54, skrev Stefanos A.: As for it being unlikely, I'd argue that it isn't. There are many times where I hit Super only to decide I'd rather enter a command rather than launch an application. Right now it's impossible to mode-switch easily, because you have to close and reopen the Dash. This fells ugly. No, that is not true. If you have the Dash open, then you can press alt+f2 to switch to the normal alt+f2 view. Contrary, if you've pressed alt+f2, but should've pressed super, you can just press tab. This makes sense. It should be easy to go from alt+f2 to the Dash, but require something more explicit the other way around. Jo-Erlend Schinstad ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Dash search vs Alt+F2 in 11.10
Good point, Ian. I am convinced now that the dash must not absorb the functionality of the run dialog. The dash should remain user-friendly, especially for new users. However, the behaviour I wanted would still be available through lenses? I don't know much about Unity lenses, and at first I thought it was the name for the transparent effect of the dash's background :$ 2011/9/28 Ian Santopietro isan...@gmail.com: It is simple, but it isn't intuitive. Pressing enter (in combination with any other key) indicates that you want to do an action with the item selected on the screen. We don't want the dash to search commands, as this is not end-user friendly. A new user should never have to know what a command is, and if our simple launcher exposes it to them, we've lost one battle right there. You can't make it hidden either, since then it isn't clear what exactly will be done, which is also bad design. With present and past Alt+F2 implementations, you can always see what exactly will run when you press enter. The old Gnome-panel Run Command dialog was dedicated to this. The new Unity implementation does this and tells you visually what will happen by presenting the command as a search result. And, this would likely include removing the standard Alt+F2 access, since having both would be redundant and bloated. This brings back the whole problem that Unity's Alt+F2 solved in the first place. On Wed, Sep 28, 2011 at 12:54, Stefanos A. stapos...@gmail.com wrote: 2011/9/28 Ian Santopietro isan...@gmail.com But Alt-F1 triggers keyboard navigation of the launcher, not the dash. You can switch directlyfrom there to either dash or the Run dialog without any other action. To open the dash, briefly press and release Super, which is a very different shortcut from Alt-F2, and not likely to be confused. It is true they look identical and serve very different functions, but be cause they are each accessed so differently, it's unlikely that a user would open one when they meant to open the other. You are right, please replace all my Alt-F1 references by Super. That's what you get for writing without coffee in the morning. As for it being unlikely, I'd argue that it isn't. There are many times where I hit Super only to decide I'd rather enter a command rather than launch an application. Right now it's impossible to mode-switch easily, because you have to close and reopen the Dash. This fells ugly. And one might use killall Thunderbird to terminate Thunderbird if it freezes. It was a rhetorical example, but the point is that sometimes it is useful to run a command without opening a terminal, particularly if you would then immediately close the terminal. Indeed, which is why I use the Alt-F2 prompt. What I am arguing for is a way to access Alt-F2 functionality from the main Dash. Several ways were presented. My favourite so far: Enter key launches application (as now); Ctrl+Enter interprets the text as a command. Simple and intuitive. -- Ian Santopietro Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html Eala Earendel enlga beorohtast Ofer middangeard monnum sended Pa gur yv y porthaur? Public GPG key (RSA): http://keyserver.ubuntu.com:11371/pks/lookup?op=getsearch=0x412F52DB1BBF1234 ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Dash search vs Alt+F2 in 11.10
On 28 September 2011 15:52, Jo-Erlend Schinstad joerlend.schins...@gmail.com wrote: No, that is not true. If you have the Dash open, then you can press alt+f2 to switch to the normal alt+f2 view. Contrary, if you've pressed alt+f2, but should've pressed super, you can just press tab. This makes sense. It should be easy to go from alt+f2 to the Dash, but require something more explicit the other way around. Wow, I didn't know that Tab switched between lenses. That's awfully important to know if you're trying to navigate with only a keyboard. Too bad that didn't make into the Ubuntu Desktop Guide before string freeze. Jeremy ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Dash search vs Alt+F2 in 11.10
2011/9/27 James Jenner james.g.jen...@gmail.com Not a big fan of using something like ~ or $ or # in a lens either. That was my suggestion but it appears it keeps getting misunderstood. You'd *never* have to type such strange symbols in the dash. That's insane. What I suggested is adding a keyboard *shortcut* that changes from Alt-F1 mode to Alt-F2 mode and vice versa. A key like ~, ! or . could work here, as they don't appear in application names (gnome-do uses . (dot), IIRC). These are merely suggestions. Juan suggest Control+Enter to interpret input as a terminal command. That's even better! No need for a toggle, either mode is directly accessible. Another suggestion: add a 5th tab-stop for the Alt-F2 mode. Right now you can use tab to change between four locations (lens?): 'applications', 'documents', etc. Add a 5th stop and the goal is achieved. What's the rationale for this suggestion? It's that we are currently stuck with two distinct dash modes (Alt-F1 and Alt-F2) that: (a) look identical (b) behave differently, and (c) and are mutually exclusive (once you enter Alt-F2 you can never move back to Alt-F1 without closing and reopening the dash). This can be improved. This should be improved. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Dash search vs Alt+F2 in 11.10
Adding a 5th stop just makes it harder to get to it. The point of having the separate dashes, as I see it, is to provide very quick access to both pieces of very important functionality. As it stands, that goal is accomplished. There isn't really a reason to switch from one to the other, since they behave differently (i.e. you wouldn't use Alt+F2 to open firefox, and you wouldn't use Dash to run killall thunderbird). On Tue, Sep 27, 2011 at 08:32, Stefanos A. stapos...@gmail.com wrote: 2011/9/27 James Jenner james.g.jen...@gmail.com Not a big fan of using something like ~ or $ or # in a lens either. That was my suggestion but it appears it keeps getting misunderstood. You'd *never* have to type such strange symbols in the dash. That's insane. What I suggested is adding a keyboard *shortcut* that changes from Alt-F1 mode to Alt-F2 mode and vice versa. A key like ~, ! or . could work here, as they don't appear in application names (gnome-do uses . (dot), IIRC). These are merely suggestions. Juan suggest Control+Enter to interpret input as a terminal command. That's even better! No need for a toggle, either mode is directly accessible. Another suggestion: add a 5th tab-stop for the Alt-F2 mode. Right now you can use tab to change between four locations (lens?): 'applications', 'documents', etc. Add a 5th stop and the goal is achieved. What's the rationale for this suggestion? It's that we are currently stuck with two distinct dash modes (Alt-F1 and Alt-F2) that: (a) look identical (b) behave differently, and (c) and are mutually exclusive (once you enter Alt-F2 you can never move back to Alt-F1 without closing and reopening the dash). This can be improved. This should be improved. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Ian Santopietro *Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html* Eala Earendel enlga beorohtast Ofer middangeard monnum sended Pa gur yv y porthaur? Public GPG key (RSA): http://keyserver.ubuntu.com:11371/pks/lookup?op=getsearch=0x412F52DB1BBF1234 ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Dash search vs Alt+F2 in 11.10
On 26 September 2011 18:54, Evan Huus eapa...@gmail.com wrote: I use it regularly to kill or restart processes using the killall command, which allows you to specifiy a name rather than a PID. I also use it to spawn firefox with different -P profile options for testing add-ons. Neither of the cases I've mentioned are common, but they do exist. pkill also works and of course xkill is awesome. Jeremy ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Dash search vs Alt+F2 in 11.10
2011/9/27 Ian Santopietro isan...@gmail.com Adding a 5th stop just makes it harder to get to it. The point of having the separate dashes, as I see it, is to provide very quick access to both pieces of very important functionality. Alt-F2 will still be available. I suggested the *addition* of a way to move between Alt-F1 and Alt-F2 modes, not the removal of Alt-F2. See my previous post for the rationale. There isn't really a reason to switch from one to the other, since they behave differently (i.e. you wouldn't use Alt+F2 to open firefox, and you wouldn't use Dash to run killall thunderbird). They behave differently but they look identical - the current watertight division is completely artificial. Try explaining the difference between Alt-F1 and Alt-F2 to a new user in a single sentence (no, really, try!) Besides, why wouldn't I use the Dash to killall thunderbird? What if I press Alt-F1 instead of Alt-F2 by mistake? Should I close the Dash, reopen it in Alt-F2 mode and retype the whole command? That's not very user-friendly (and, yes, this happens to me from time to time). Gnome Do used to support this seamlessly and effortlessly, by offering an execute command in terminal option along with launch application and search files. There is very little reason why the Dash supports the latter two in the same way but compartmentalizes the first into a separate place. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Dash search vs Alt+F2 in 11.10
And a different viewpoint: Win7 doesn't distinguish between 'execute command', 'launch application', 'search applications' and 'search files' in its Dash equivalent. Instead, it works through the list in that order: if the text entered matches a command, then it's treated as a command (e.g. ping example.com or firefox example.com); if it matches an application, it launches the application; if it doesn't match an application it searches for applications with similar names; and if no match exists, it performs a full file search. This approach really is seamless. It covers every feature discussed in this thread and does so in a simple, logical and efficient manner. Dash, in comparison, goes directly to step 2 (search applications). Step 1 can only be performed with Alt-F2, while step 3 is kept into a different compartment from step 2. I firmly believe that unification between these concepts would result in a more usable Dash. What do you think? ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Dash search vs Alt+F2 in 11.10
On Tue, Sep 27, 2011 at 6:12 PM, Stefanos A. stapos...@gmail.com wrote: And a different viewpoint: Win7 doesn't distinguish between 'execute command', 'launch application', 'search applications' and 'search files' in its Dash equivalent. Instead, it works through the list in that order: if the text entered matches a command, then it's treated as a command (e.g. ping example.com or firefox example.com); if it matches an application, it launches the application; if it doesn't match an application it searches for applications with similar names; and if no match exists, it performs a full file search. This approach really is seamless. It covers every feature discussed in this thread and does so in a simple, logical and efficient manner. It doesn't quite cover every feature, as running a command in a terminal still requires two steps (open terminal, run command). It is none-the-less an improvement over the current dash. Dash, in comparison, goes directly to step 2 (search applications). Step 1 can only be performed with Alt-F2, while step 3 is kept into a different compartment from step 2. I firmly believe that unification between these concepts would result in a more usable Dash. What do you think? ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Dash search vs Alt+F2 in 11.10
On 09/22/2011 08:46 PM, Jo-Erlend Schinstad wrote: Den 22. sep. 2011 20:40, skrev Alex Launi: Can someone explain why we think we want the ability to run rm directly from unity anyway? Is there a single person who wants this functionality who doesn't have a terminal open all of the time anyway? rm is a bad example. But being able to restart compiz using compiz --replace without opening a terminal and running nohup compiz --replace is a good reason to keep it around. Or to quickly open a root nautilus. (Which itself is an example of situations when it should not be necessary to run a command) Stuff like that. Just for historic reference: The Alt-F2 mode in Unity was added because there was a *major* uproar from users that it was gone, when we transitioned from the Gnome2 panel. So we added it back. Personally I don't get what people use it for instead of just having a full featured terminal around, but apparently it is very important to a lot of people. So I accept that :-) Cheers, Mikkel ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Dash search vs Alt+F2 in 11.10
2011/9/26 Mikkel Kamstrup Erlandsen mikkel.kamst...@canonical.com On 09/22/2011 08:46 PM, Jo-Erlend Schinstad wrote: Den 22. sep. 2011 20:40, skrev Alex Launi: Can someone explain why we think we want the ability to run rm directly from unity anyway? Is there a single person who wants this functionality who doesn't have a terminal open all of the time anyway? rm is a bad example. But being able to restart compiz using compiz --replace without opening a terminal and running nohup compiz --replace is a good reason to keep it around. Or to quickly open a root nautilus. (Which itself is an example of situations when it should not be necessary to run a command) Stuff like that. Just for historic reference: The Alt-F2 mode in Unity was added because there was a *major* uproar from users that it was gone, when we transitioned from the Gnome2 panel. So we added it back. Personally I don't get what people use it for instead of just having a full featured terminal around, but apparently it is very important to a lot of people. So I accept that :-) Having a way to enter one-off commands without opening a terminal is pretty useful. Maybe you wish to kill a misbehaving process or ping to see if your connection is working? Alt-F2, enter command, done. Why is that better than opening a brand new terminal? Because it avoids the need for window management or (heavens forbid) desktop management for an one-off command. Unfortunately, Alt-F2 is a little too underpowered as it cannot run commands in external terminals (e.g. if you ping, Alt-F2 creates an invisible zombie process). Gnome Do used to offer such a run command in terminal choice, which was very very useful. Myself, I have now moved to drop-down, quake-style terminals (like guake) which stand somewhere between Alt-F2 and full-fledged terminals in functionality. In fact, Alt-F2 is very close to a drop-down terminal in appearance - but sadly not in functionality. This is not a huge gap to close (just embed a terminal window under the Alt-F2 prompt!) but I somehow don't see that happening in the near future. :) ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Dash search vs Alt+F2 in 11.10
Hi, On Mon, Sep 26, 2011 at 12:28 PM, Mikkel Kamstrup Erlandsen mikkel.kamst...@canonical.com wrote: On 09/22/2011 08:46 PM, Jo-Erlend Schinstad wrote: Den 22. sep. 2011 20:40, skrev Alex Launi: Can someone explain why we think we want the ability to run rm directly from unity anyway? Is there a single person who wants this functionality who doesn't have a terminal open all of the time anyway? rm is a bad example. But being able to restart compiz using compiz --replace without opening a terminal and running nohup compiz --replace is a good reason to keep it around. Or to quickly open a root nautilus. (Which itself is an example of situations when it should not be necessary to run a command) Stuff like that. Just for historic reference: The Alt-F2 mode in Unity was added because there was a *major* uproar from users that it was gone, when we transitioned from the Gnome2 panel. So we added it back. My original thought was about having the two be approached consistently. The functionality of Alt-F2 is still useful, especially when taking command parameters, like others have pointed. Even without them, at least out of habit :). Approaching the two by the user consistently, meaning not to think what to use when launching text editor, gedit, gedit ~/file.txt, gedit -s. All 4 is used to launch a text editor in varying ways, but first 2 work with dash-search and last 3 work with current alt-f2 implementation. One can divide the launches between standard vs advanced ways and have 2 separate interfaces dealing with them - which is what is done currently and is what others have pointed out. But what is there to lose if the two are done through same interface - without any lose of functionality of either? Some subtle difference between the two can be brought in, such as like joerlend suggested with ~. Or, having no difference in the input, but instead additional command-prefix completion is shown below (lens?) in addition to the free text search results - such that input is both treated as case insensitive free form search + case sensitive command pre-fix search. This will save some metal taxing on the users (note: it wasn't difficult to pick before because I only had to choose alt-f2). Thanks. Regards, -Naba ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Dash search vs Alt+F2 in 11.10
Ps. That's annoying that the reply address has to be manually changed to the mailing list address. On Mon, Sep 26, 2011 at 11:20 AM, Gino Vincenzini openmysourcec...@gmail.com wrote: Might I submit for your reading: http://developer.apple.com/library/mac/#documentation/Cocoa/Conceptual/Sheets/Sheets.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/1002-BABFIBIA I'm sick of people criticizing any software for copying even one feature from the same company whose leader is quoted as saying that shamelessly their company steals ideas (Apple: Steve Jobs). It's one thing when it's windows vista and every single one of their new features can be traced back to apple and Mac OS X, but let's not forget that the GUI on the original Mac OS came from none other than Xerox (granted Mac OS X compensated Xerox in stock, we are writing an open source system) If an idea is good, let's take it and march forward, I would love to see an easy to access run box, which expands like a sheet into a terminal window... let's make the window detachable, add a checkbox called watch which repeatedly runs the command and shows the watch output in that window let's make simple things simple and out of the way, and bigger more complicated things possible (Thanks apple :D ). On Mon, Sep 26, 2011 at 7:21 AM, Naba Kumar naba.ku...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, On Mon, Sep 26, 2011 at 12:28 PM, Mikkel Kamstrup Erlandsen mikkel.kamst...@canonical.com wrote: On 09/22/2011 08:46 PM, Jo-Erlend Schinstad wrote: Den 22. sep. 2011 20:40, skrev Alex Launi: Can someone explain why we think we want the ability to run rm directly from unity anyway? Is there a single person who wants this functionality who doesn't have a terminal open all of the time anyway? rm is a bad example. But being able to restart compiz using compiz --replace without opening a terminal and running nohup compiz --replace is a good reason to keep it around. Or to quickly open a root nautilus. (Which itself is an example of situations when it should not be necessary to run a command) Stuff like that. Just for historic reference: The Alt-F2 mode in Unity was added because there was a *major* uproar from users that it was gone, when we transitioned from the Gnome2 panel. So we added it back. My original thought was about having the two be approached consistently. The functionality of Alt-F2 is still useful, especially when taking command parameters, like others have pointed. Even without them, at least out of habit :). Approaching the two by the user consistently, meaning not to think what to use when launching text editor, gedit, gedit ~/file.txt, gedit -s. All 4 is used to launch a text editor in varying ways, but first 2 work with dash-search and last 3 work with current alt-f2 implementation. One can divide the launches between standard vs advanced ways and have 2 separate interfaces dealing with them - which is what is done currently and is what others have pointed out. But what is there to lose if the two are done through same interface - without any lose of functionality of either? Some subtle difference between the two can be brought in, such as like joerlend suggested with ~. Or, having no difference in the input, but instead additional command-prefix completion is shown below (lens?) in addition to the free text search results - such that input is both treated as case insensitive free form search + case sensitive command pre-fix search. This will save some metal taxing on the users (note: it wasn't difficult to pick before because I only had to choose alt-f2). Thanks. Regards, -Naba ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Dash search vs Alt+F2 in 11.10
Den 26. sep. 2011 13:21, skrev Naba Kumar: y and is what others have pointed out. But what is there to lose if the two are done through same interface - without any lose of functionality of either? Some subtle difference between the two can be brought in, such as like joerlend suggested with ~. Or, having no difference in the input, but instead additional command-prefix completion is shown below (lens?) in addition to the free text I have not proposed anything like that. That was someone else, and I completely disagree with it. I don't want commands in the dash at all. They do not belong there. I like it just the way it is, but having an output section in the Alt+F2 screen would not be too bad. I don't think it's important. But using ~ as a prefix for commands would be horrible. It would also make it much slower to use. Instead of pressing Alt+F2, I would have to press super, then press altgr¨¨. Many more key strokes in order to do the same thing. If something like that was to be implemented, then I would say the proper prefixes would be $ to run as yourself and # to run as root. But again, I really don't want that. Jo-Erlend Schinstad ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Dash search vs Alt+F2 in 11.10
Hi Jo-Erlend, On Mon, Sep 26, 2011 at 7:19 PM, Jo-Erlend Schinstad joerlend.schins...@gmail.com wrote: Den 26. sep. 2011 13:21, skrev Naba Kumar: y and is what others have pointed out. But what is there to lose if the two are done through same interface - without any lose of functionality of either? Some subtle difference between the two can be brought in, such as like joerlend suggested with ~. Or, having no difference in the input, but instead additional command-prefix completion is shown below (lens?) in addition to the free text I have not proposed anything like that. That was someone else ... Yeah, I mixed up the replies, sorry :) It was Stefanos, who proposed it. But in general, I pointed it mainly to highlight having single interface. It would be natural to be separate if they have radically different interfaces such that the two completely diverges in their usage and functions. and I completely disagree with it. I don't want commands in the dash at all. They do not belong there. I like it just the way it is, but having an output section in the Alt+F2 screen would not be too bad. I don't think it's important. What is output section - you mean a terminal output when running terminal-only commands? Why not just start a terminal, then :)? Regards, -Naba ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Dash search vs Alt+F2 in 11.10
2011/9/26 Naba Kumar naba.ku...@gmail.com Hi Jo-Erlend, On Mon, Sep 26, 2011 at 7:19 PM, Jo-Erlend Schinstad joerlend.schins...@gmail.com wrote: Den 26. sep. 2011 13:21, skrev Naba Kumar: y and is what others have pointed out. But what is there to lose if the two are done through same interface - without any lose of functionality of either? Some subtle difference between the two can be brought in, such as like joerlend suggested with ~. Or, having no difference in the input, but instead additional command-prefix completion is shown below (lens?) in addition to the free text I have not proposed anything like that. That was someone else ... Yeah, I mixed up the replies, sorry :) It was Stefanos, who proposed it. Indeed. Please note that I proposed a toggle button, not a command prefix. Huge difference. and I completely disagree with it. I don't want commands in the dash at all. They do not belong there. I like it just the way it is, but having an output section in the Alt+F2 screen would not be too bad. I don't think it's important. What is output section - you mean a terminal output when running terminal-only commands? Why not just start a terminal, then :)? Window management (the lack of it), so you don't need to open and manage a new terminal for quick, one-shot commands (e.g. ping example.com). This is especially important for laptop screens, where you really don't have space to open any new windows, requiring both window and desktop management - and all that for a ping command (same for killall, top or other quickies). This is a surprisingly useful power-user feature that Unity can support without too much effort (just add an output window to Alt-F2 and a way to switch between Dash - Alt-F2). Right now, you can get a non-integrated version of this via drop-down terminals ala guake (try it on a 1366x768 screen to see just how useful it is!) ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Dash search vs Alt+F2 in 11.10
I tend to hit Ctrl+Shift+R in Thunderbird (reply all shortcut), it's handy if you're checking multiple Gmail accounts via IMAP through Thunderbird. On 09/26/2011 11:28 AM, Gino Vincenzini wrote: Ps. That's annoying that the reply address has to be manually changed to the mailing list address. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Dash search vs Alt+F2 in 11.10
Den 26. sep. 2011 21:45, skrev anthropornis: I tend to hit Ctrl+Shift+R in Thunderbird (reply all shortcut), it's handy if you're checking multiple Gmail accounts via IMAP through Thunderbird. On 09/26/2011 11:28 AM, Gino Vincenzini wrote: Ps. That's annoying that the reply address has to be manually changed to the mailing list address. Why don't you use Reply to list? Jo-Erlend Schinstad ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Dash search vs Alt+F2 in 11.10
Force of habit I guess. On 09/26/2011 04:22 PM, Jo-Erlend Schinstad wrote: Den 26. sep. 2011 21:45, skrev anthropornis: I tend to hit Ctrl+Shift+R in Thunderbird (reply all shortcut), it's handy if you're checking multiple Gmail accounts via IMAP through Thunderbird. On 09/26/2011 11:28 AM, Gino Vincenzini wrote: Ps. That's annoying that the reply address has to be manually changed to the mailing list address. Why don't you use Reply to list? Jo-Erlend Schinstad ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Dash search vs Alt+F2 in 11.10
On 27 September 2011 02:19, Jo-Erlend Schinstad joerlend.schins...@gmail.com wrote: I have not proposed anything like that. That was someone else, and I completely disagree with it. I don't want commands in the dash at all. They do not belong there. I like it just the way it is, but having an output section in the Alt+F2 screen would not be too bad. I don't think it's important. The examples that I've seen given here for using the Alt-F2 would require an output section. For example, how do you know the results of a ping or how do you terminate it once you're happy with it? How do you know the PID of the process to kill without first searching for it (someone gave killing a process as an example) and how do you know if the kill command was successful (presuming non-gui process here)? If you have a window that is dead then you need to search for the PID first before killing, this would necessitate a terminal (unless you have a gdesklet or similar app that shows you the top processes, then I could see the use of Alt-F2). I tried the Alt-F2 and disliked it mainly because I have no way of knowing if it worked and I have no way of stopping it if it's a process like ping. One area I can see it being useful would be to restart a service or stop/start a service. But when I'm doing that I'm generally doing a number of related activities that would necessitate the use of a terminal (e.g. reconfiguration of a service and need to restart). Perhaps an option next to the command line in Alt-F2 that states, run in terminal. Thus if selected then a terminal window could open and the command is executed in the terminal. Just a thought, but I think that I would find useful. I'm also curious if anyone out there actively uses Alt-F2 and if so, what type of commands are we talking? Cheers, James. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Dash search vs Alt+F2 in 11.10
On Mon, Sep 26, 2011 at 6:28 PM, James Jenner james.g.jen...@gmail.com wrote: On 27 September 2011 02:19, Jo-Erlend Schinstad joerlend.schins...@gmail.com wrote: I have not proposed anything like that. That was someone else, and I completely disagree with it. I don't want commands in the dash at all. They do not belong there. I like it just the way it is, but having an output section in the Alt+F2 screen would not be too bad. I don't think it's important. The examples that I've seen given here for using the Alt-F2 would require an output section. For example, how do you know the results of a ping or how do you terminate it once you're happy with it? How do you know the PID of the process to kill without first searching for it (someone gave killing a process as an example) and how do you know if the kill command was successful (presuming non-gui process here)? If you have a window that is dead then you need to search for the PID first before killing, this would necessitate a terminal (unless you have a gdesklet or similar app that shows you the top processes, then I could see the use of Alt-F2). I tried the Alt-F2 and disliked it mainly because I have no way of knowing if it worked and I have no way of stopping it if it's a process like ping. One area I can see it being useful would be to restart a service or stop/start a service. But when I'm doing that I'm generally doing a number of related activities that would necessitate the use of a terminal (e.g. reconfiguration of a service and need to restart). Perhaps an option next to the command line in Alt-F2 that states, run in terminal. Thus if selected then a terminal window could open and the command is executed in the terminal. Just a thought, but I think that I would find useful. I'm also curious if anyone out there actively uses Alt-F2 and if so, what type of commands are we talking? I use it regularly to kill or restart processes using the killall command, which allows you to specifiy a name rather than a PID. I also use it to spawn firefox with different -P profile options for testing add-ons. Neither of the cases I've mentioned are common, but they do exist. Cheers, Evan ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Dash search vs Alt+F2 in 11.10
Den 27. sep. 2011 00:28, skrev James Jenner: I tried the Alt-F2 and disliked it mainly because I have no way of knowing if it worked and I have no way of stopping it if it's a process like ping. One area I can see it being useful would be to restart a service or stop/start a service. But when I'm doing that I'm generally doing a number of related activities that would necessitate the use of a terminal (e.g. reconfiguration of a service and need to restart). Well, this is mostly the way that Alt+F2 has worked for at least ten years, so there's really nothing new there. We used to have some options in the dialog, though, like run in terminal, run with file and select applications. None of those make sense to me. If I want to run something in a terminal, I type super+3 something. To do the same thing in the old dialog, I would have to type alt+f2 something alt+t alt+r. I know what I prefer. Perhaps an option next to the command line in Alt-F2 that states, run in terminal. Thus if selected then a terminal window could open and the command is executed in the terminal. Just a thought, but I think that I would find useful. I would much prefer super+3, or alt+f3 to open a new terminal. Having to first configure something like that by checking boxes is not for me. No, sir. Not at all. I'm also curious if anyone out there actively uses Alt-F2 and if so, what type of commands are we talking? I do, for various purposes (some prepended with gksu): * /etc/init.d/some_service reload | restart | start | stop * compiz --replace * killall unity-panel-service * killall firefox -9 * nautilus I'm sure there are more. All of this is possible using a terminal, of course, but you save a few keystrokes when you're not interested in the output and you don't have to close the window afterwards. Jo-Erlend Schinstad ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Dash search vs Alt+F2 in 11.10
Well, this is mostly the way that Alt+F2 has worked for at least ten years, so there's really nothing new there. We used to have some options in the dialog, though, like run in terminal, run with file and select applications. None of those make sense to me. If I want to run something in a terminal, I type super+3 something. To do the same thing in the old dialog, I would have to type alt+f2 something alt+t alt+r. I know what I prefer. Perhaps an option next to the command line in Alt-F2 that states, run in terminal. Thus if selected then a terminal window could open and the command is executed in the terminal. Just a thought, but I think that I would find useful. I would much prefer super+3, or alt+f3 to open a new terminal. Having to first configure something like that by checking boxes is not for me. No, sir. Not at all. Well that makes sense. Thinking it through it does seem redundant and painful to execute a command and then tick a box or tab and then press space to choose to run it in a terminal when super+# would do the job. It's most prob. my lack of constant experience in linux that I'm generally not familiar enough commands to be able to type a single command to restart a service (I normally have to check what the name of the service is, though not always). Also I wasn't aware of the killall command, something I think I will start using, as I often get dead windows from problematic software. ... I'm sure there are more. All of this is possible using a terminal, of course, but you save a few keystrokes when you're not interested in the output and you don't have to close the window afterwards. Thanks for the feedback Jo, was curious as to what people use it for. It does seem useful to me in the current form that it is, so I'd vote for no change. I would also agree with others and say that it's not useful trying to merge it with the default unity lens as it's really about case sensitive command line execution not a generic search with results. Not a big fan of using something like ~ or $ or # in a lens either. Cheers, James ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Dash search vs Alt+F2 in 11.10
I wish there was no difference between Dash search (Super) Alt-F1 and Alt-F2. Both search panels look exactly the same, and should behave exactly the same. Why not something like? Enter: Open the first search result Ctrl-Enter: Run as a command ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Dash search vs Alt+F2 in 11.10
The question is why lump them together? They both provide two very different functions and the shortcut differencebis sufficient to keep them separate. The current implementation works. Why change it if it isn't broken? On Sep 26, 2011 9:24 PM, Juan Montoya th3pr0p...@gmail.com wrote: I wish there was no difference between Dash search (Super) Alt-F1 and Alt-F2. Both search panels look exactly the same, and should behave exactly the same. Why not something like? Enter: Open the first search result Ctrl-Enter: Run as a command ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Dash search vs Alt+F2 in 11.10
2011/9/22 Jo-Erlend Schinstad joerlend.schins...@gmail.com Den 22. sep. 2011 20:40, skrev Alex Launi: Can someone explain why we think we want the ability to run rm directly from unity anyway? Is there a single person who wants this functionality who doesn't have a terminal open all of the time anyway? rm is a bad example. But being able to restart compiz using compiz --replace without opening a terminal and running nohup compiz --replace is a good reason to keep it around. Or to quickly open a root nautilus. (Which itself is an example of situations when it should not be necessary to run a command) Stuff like that. There's a much better solution to this: add a key to default unity to enter command mode. Something like ~ or / or (.) would work fine. In other words: 1. Press unity key to show the dash. 2. Press ~ to enter command mode. Press backspace to return to normal mode. 3. Type a command, ideally with tab autocompletion Step 2 is what unity is currently missing (i.e. a way to enter command mode). Autocompletion is also a pretty important feature. I'm pretty sure most dash-like launchers have a command mode (I'm pretty sure I could do that with gnome-do). I'd actually find this more convenient than Alt-F2, because Alt-F2 is pretty awkward to type on my laptop (combination of tiny function keys and awkward angle). With this approach, Alt-F2 would still enter command mode in a single step, just like now. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Dash search vs Alt+F2 in 11.10
I think this was the best suggestion on this so far. It would add a missing feature to Unity and bring more unity to Ubuntu desktop. Eylem On Fri, Sep 23, 2011 at 5:03 AM, Stefanos A. stapos...@gmail.com wrote: 2011/9/22 Jo-Erlend Schinstad joerlend.schins...@gmail.com Den 22. sep. 2011 20:40, skrev Alex Launi: Can someone explain why we think we want the ability to run rm directly from unity anyway? Is there a single person who wants this functionality who doesn't have a terminal open all of the time anyway? rm is a bad example. But being able to restart compiz using compiz --replace without opening a terminal and running nohup compiz --replace is a good reason to keep it around. Or to quickly open a root nautilus. (Which itself is an example of situations when it should not be necessary to run a command) Stuff like that. There's a much better solution to this: add a key to default unity to enter command mode. Something like ~ or / or (.) would work fine. In other words: 1. Press unity key to show the dash. 2. Press ~ to enter command mode. Press backspace to return to normal mode. 3. Type a command, ideally with tab autocompletion Step 2 is what unity is currently missing (i.e. a way to enter command mode). Autocompletion is also a pretty important feature. I'm pretty sure most dash-like launchers have a command mode (I'm pretty sure I could do that with gnome-do). I'd actually find this more convenient than Alt-F2, because Alt-F2 is pretty awkward to type on my laptop (combination of tiny function keys and awkward angle). With this approach, Alt-F2 would still enter command mode in a single step, just like now. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Dash search vs Alt+F2 in 11.10
No, they're different things. The dash searches for applications and files. Alt+f2 is to run a command. It is case sensitive and must be exact. It would be very confusing if the dash gained that behaviour. Jo-Erlend Schinstad ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Dash search vs Alt+F2 in 11.10
On 09/22/2011 01:19 PM, Naba Kumar wrote: Hi, I use Alt+F2 a lot to launch apps and at the same time the dash search to launch apps is an awesome feature. But in 11.10, Alt+f2 is different from dash-search (although they look similar). Dash search is where I click the ubuntu launcher, type the app name/description and be able to launch it. While alt+f2 seems to search only binary executable names and expects to type in the command explicitly. The two modes seem confusing. For example, trying the two with screenshot search, dash-search gets the right application, while Alt-F2 doesn't get anything useful. Why not just have dash-search with Alt-F2 - it appears to search binary names too? I think Alt-F2 command mode is a legacy that is already redundant with dash-search. I may be wrong here, but I thought that's how it was in 11.04 before, and somehow got changed in 11.10? Yes Dash search and Alt-F2 are very different. Alt-F2 is primarily intended to run command lines and is not a search utility as such, it just happens to have some clever string completion :-) You probably want to just hit super to search for stuff. This activates the normal dash mode. Or super-a,f,m to access the applications, files, or music lenses respectively. Cheers, Mikkel ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Dash search vs Alt+F2 in 11.10
Hi, On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 3:14 PM, Jo-Erlend Schinstad joerlend.schins...@gmail.com wrote: No, they're different things. The dash searches for applications and files. Alt+f2 is to run a command. It is case sensitive and must be exact. It would be very confusing if the dash gained that behaviour. If you think about it, alt-f2 came before dash-search and the main purpose was effectively to start new applications. Applications were considered commands too. I doubt many used it to run ls -l. Now with the dash-search unifying all - searching, launching, discovering, why would it be more confusing to combine commands launch as well? Apps launch are subset of commands launch anyways. Right now, when I want to launch gedit - I debate for a split second what to use - dash-search or alt-f2. And because I know only the famous alt-f2 short-cut to launch, I end up activating it anyways all the time, often repenting that I should have clicked dash-search instead. That, IMHO, is confusing. Thanks. Regards, -Naba ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Dash search vs Alt+F2 in 11.10
Den 22. sep. 2011 15:08, skrev Naba Kumar: Hi, On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 3:14 PM, Jo-Erlend Schinstad joerlend.schins...@gmail.com wrote: No, they're different things. The dash searches for applications and files. Alt+f2 is to run a command. It is case sensitive and must be exact. It would be very confusing if the dash gained that behaviour. If you think about it, alt-f2 came before dash-search and the main purpose was effectively to start new applications. Applications were considered commands too. I doubt many used it to run ls -l. Now with the dash-search unifying all - searching, launching, discovering, why would it be more confusing to combine commands launch as well? Apps launch are subset of commands launch anyways. There are several key differences. The dash is case-insensitive and that's a good thing. Commands, on the other hand, are case sensitive. Another thing is that there is always exactly one command with one name. There can be many applications with the same abbreviation though. If you wanted to launch Realmedia, for instance, then you might type rm. Do you really want to mix that with the rm command? The dash also supports synonyms, which is irreconcilable with commands which always are exact. You use gedit as an example. If you launch it as a command, then you have to enter exactly gedit. You cannot use Gedit. On the other hand, in the dash, you might want to type text or editor, or in my language, Norwegian, I type rediger. Rediger will show me Gedit, but also other types of editor for guitar tabs, audio, video and other things. This is great behaviour, but you do not want to confuse this with commands, which are of a completely different nature. Alt+F2 is an expert feature that should not be necessary for casual users, but may sometimes be useful to advanced users. Jo-Erlend Schinstad ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Dash search vs Alt+F2 in 11.10
Can someone explain why we think we want the ability to run rm directly from unity anyway? Is there a single person who wants this functionality who doesn't have a terminal open all of the time anyway? ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Dash search vs Alt+F2 in 11.10
Den 22. sep. 2011 20:40, skrev Alex Launi: Can someone explain why we think we want the ability to run rm directly from unity anyway? Is there a single person who wants this functionality who doesn't have a terminal open all of the time anyway? rm is a bad example. But being able to restart compiz using compiz --replace without opening a terminal and running nohup compiz --replace is a good reason to keep it around. Or to quickly open a root nautilus. (Which itself is an example of situations when it should not be necessary to run a command) Stuff like that. Jo-Erlend Schinstad ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
