Re: [Ayatana] Ayatana dev list - attitude
I very appreciate the spirit of this post, more data is always welcome! ;) It would be good, though, if we could have better data. Opt-in mechanisms unfortunately compromise quite a lot the data, not everyone, or more importantly not every kind of person, would make their voice heard. It has been a few cycles where we are trying to introduce analytics inside Ubuntu. As you can imagine it might require some time but that would definitely be a better approach. Very recently I wanted to know how many people were actually using the audio boost functionality in the Sound Settings and I was thinking about putting a poll online as well. I think the important is to reach the most assorted group of people, so maybe more than a tool we need support from Loco's. What do you think? Thanks a lot, chr 2011/10/16 Tomasz Sałaciński tsalacin...@gmail.com Hello, My question is about the attitude of making changes to Ubuntu. Most replies start with Users don't want to, Most users won't do that, This will make users confused. How do you have such information? My proposal is to make a Ubuntu poll application that will gather opinion from users (NOT requiring a Launchpad account). What do you think about it? I am a python programmer, I can make such an app. Best regards, Tomasz Sałaciński __**_ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/**ListHelphttps://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Ayatana dev list - attitude
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 charlesa...@gmail.com wrote on 16/10/11 10:50: ... I do still believe there's something has to change regarding the up to date software installation, just like in windows xp, though it's old from year 2001, but we still able to install most of the latest software on it. Unlike on Ubuntu, to get latest software, we have to upgrade the to the current update release, or using an unofficial ppa or backport repository, and sometimes the latest one is not supported anymore on previous ubuntu release. It's okay to upgrade ubuntu one or two machine, but to imagine upgrading 60-75 machines, that's a very time consuming process, assumed one pc takes 45 minutes to 1 hour long. ... Vendors provide updated applications for Windows XP because it's easy to do, and because hundreds of millions of people still use Windows XP. The easier it is to provide updated applications for an OS version, and the more users that version has, the more likely a vendor will do it. So, there are three ways to get more application updates for old Ubuntu versions. 1. Make it easier for application developers to provide updates at all, through developer.ubuntu.com. 2. Increase the number of Ubuntu users in general. 3. Increase the proportion of Ubuntu users using each version, by reducing the number of versions in use at any one time. - -- mpt -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk6cLPcACgkQ6PUxNfU6ecovYgCeLG3SQY2tB/9kzxdBUCdNY907 U1oAoL5mYRxhChnro0emVg7iIF4bacBe =Gqlv -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Ayatana dev list - attitude
I like the option #1. :) /charles everytime i get ahead, i feel more dead. On Mon, Oct 17, 2011 at 8:26 PM, Matthew Paul Thomas m...@canonical.comwrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 charlesa...@gmail.com wrote on 16/10/11 10:50: ... I do still believe there's something has to change regarding the up to date software installation, just like in windows xp, though it's old from year 2001, but we still able to install most of the latest software on it. Unlike on Ubuntu, to get latest software, we have to upgrade the to the current update release, or using an unofficial ppa or backport repository, and sometimes the latest one is not supported anymore on previous ubuntu release. It's okay to upgrade ubuntu one or two machine, but to imagine upgrading 60-75 machines, that's a very time consuming process, assumed one pc takes 45 minutes to 1 hour long. ... Vendors provide updated applications for Windows XP because it's easy to do, and because hundreds of millions of people still use Windows XP. The easier it is to provide updated applications for an OS version, and the more users that version has, the more likely a vendor will do it. So, there are three ways to get more application updates for old Ubuntu versions. 1. Make it easier for application developers to provide updates at all, through developer.ubuntu.com. 2. Increase the number of Ubuntu users in general. 3. Increase the proportion of Ubuntu users using each version, by reducing the number of versions in use at any one time. - -- mpt -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk6cLPcACgkQ6PUxNfU6ecovYgCeLG3SQY2tB/9kzxdBUCdNY907 U1oAoL5mYRxhChnro0emVg7iIF4bacBe =Gqlv -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Ayatana dev list - attitude
Dear Tomasz, That would be great. But they are still required to have valid account on launchpad or something official from ubuntu though, otherwise naughty user will poll and poll again just to abuse ubuntu developement progress. I'm not a programmer but I'm sure I'll glad to help with any kind of help I can give to make sure Ubuntu be the easier and efficient operating system. I do still believe there's something has to change regarding the up to date software installation, just like in windows xp, though it's old from year 2001, but we still able to install most of the latest software on it. Unlike on Ubuntu, to get latest software, we have to upgrade the to the current update release, or using an unofficial ppa or backport repository, and sometimes the latest one is not supported anymore on previous ubuntu release. It's okay to upgrade ubuntu one or two machine, but to imagine upgrading 60-75 machines, that's a very time consuming process, assumed one pc takes 45 minutes to 1 hour long. Just my two cents. Kind regards, /charles everytime i get ahead, i feel more dead. 2011/10/16 Tomasz Sałaciński tsalacin...@gmail.com Hello, My question is about the attitude of making changes to Ubuntu. Most replies start with Users don't want to, Most users won't do that, This will make users confused. How do you have such information? My proposal is to make a Ubuntu poll application that will gather opinion from users (NOT requiring a Launchpad account). What do you think about it? I am a python programmer, I can make such an app. Best regards, Tomasz Sałaciński __**_ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/**ListHelphttps://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Ayatana dev list - attitude
Hello, What users want you can find on the Ubuntu Brainstorm website: http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/ There are many ideas from what people like to see in Ubuntu. I think you have to make a poll (NOT requiring a Launchpad account) part of the Ubuntu Brainstorm website. Best regards, Kostas Op 16-10-11 11:33, Tomasz Sałaciński schreef: Hello, My question is about the attitude of making changes to Ubuntu. Most replies start with Users don't want to, Most users won't do that, This will make users confused. How do you have such information? My proposal is to make a Ubuntu poll application that will gather opinion from users (NOT requiring a Launchpad account). What do you think about it? I am a python programmer, I can make such an app. Best regards, Tomasz Sałaciński ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Ayatana dev list - attitude
I don't think we need to have a login process. I think it's better to allow every computer to submit one result. I'm not a programmer, so I've no idea how to realize that. You normally don't have over 3 up to 5 PCs to update and a company should use a LTS and the most used software is still supported for 10.04 (Firefox, Thunderbird, Chrome, Skype, http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2011/08/lucid-lives-10-apps-updated-ubuntu-10-04/ ). The software which is developed especially for the company will support the OS they want to use. Am 16.10.2011 11:50, schrieb charlesa...@gmail.com: Dear Tomasz, That would be great. But they are still required to have valid account on launchpad or something official from ubuntu though, otherwise naughty user will poll and poll again just to abuse ubuntu developement progress. I'm not a programmer but I'm sure I'll glad to help with any kind of help I can give to make sure Ubuntu be the easier and efficient operating system. I do still believe there's something has to change regarding the up to date software installation, just like in windows xp, though it's old from year 2001, but we still able to install most of the latest software on it. Unlike on Ubuntu, to get latest software, we have to upgrade the to the current update release, or using an unofficial ppa or backport repository, and sometimes the latest one is not supported anymore on previous ubuntu release. It's okay to upgrade ubuntu one or two machine, but to imagine upgrading 60-75 machines, that's a very time consuming process, assumed one pc takes 45 minutes to 1 hour long. Just my two cents. Kind regards, /charles everytime i get ahead, i feel more dead. 2011/10/16 Tomasz Sa?acin'ski tsalacin...@gmail.com mailto:tsalacin...@gmail.com Hello, My question is about the attitude of making changes to Ubuntu. Most replies start with Users don't want to, Most users won't do that, This will make users confused. How do you have such information? My proposal is to make a Ubuntu poll application that will gather opinion from users (NOT requiring a Launchpad account). What do you think about it? I am a python programmer, I can make such an app. Best regards, Tomasz Sa?acin'ski ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana https://launchpad.net/%7Eayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net mailto:ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana https://launchpad.net/%7Eayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Ayatana dev list - attitude
Den 16. okt. 2011 11:33, skrev Tomasz Sałaciński: Hello, My question is about the attitude of making changes to Ubuntu. Most replies start with Users don't want to, Most users won't do that, This will make users confused. How do you have such information? My proposal is to make a Ubuntu poll application that will gather opinion from users (NOT requiring a Launchpad account). What do you think about it? I am a python programmer, I can make such an app. You get such data by collecting a number of different users and testing the software on them in a controlled manner. A web poll is not useful because people will be driven by preconceptions and emotion instead of actually analysing what they're doing. For example, I got really upset when the window buttons were moved. I mean, I got enraged. It was completely irrational, and when the rage settled, I just started using the software and it was no problem at all. I would've voted against the best solution out of fear of change. That's a _very_ bad thing to base decisions on. Science is the best tool. Ever. Jo-Erlend Schinstad ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Ayatana dev list - attitude
It could be easier to do a normal GTK application that will start when the system is started for the first time and show a dialog box asking if user wants to participate in polls. Then, it could identify users by their external IP (taken from the poll server when application connects to download polls) and internal IP (taken from NetworkManager). Then it could ask for email address where to send confirmation link - without any registration. When user clicks on this link the survey is complete. Based on that we could determine that this particular PC email address participated already in the poll. Results could be submitted via https. W dniu 16.10.2011 12:36, Kostas Sytske pisze: There are many ideas from what people like to see in Ubuntu. I think you have to make a poll (NOT requiring a Launchpad account) part of the Ubuntu Brainstorm website. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Ayatana dev list - attitude
On 16 October 2011 21:01, Jo-Erlend Schinstad joerlend.schins...@gmail.comwrote: You get such data by collecting a number of different users and testing the software on them in a controlled manner. A web poll is not useful because people will be driven by preconceptions and emotion instead of actually analysing what they're doing. For example, I got really upset when the window buttons were moved. I mean, I got enraged. It was completely irrational, and when the rage settled, I just started using the software and it was no problem at all. I would've voted against the best solution out of fear of change. That's a _very_ bad thing to base decisions on. Science is the best tool. Ever. Jo-Erlend Schinstad __**_ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/**ListHelphttps://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp I gotta agree with Jo-Erlend on this, polls are not a very reliable way to determine the best UI design. I actually had the same reaction as Jo in relation to the window buttons switching side. Now it doesn't bother me, once the emotion and cognitive dissonance was gone I could understand the reasoning around their design choices. Polls have their places but I don't believe it is useful for UI design. Cheers, James. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Ayatana dev list - attitude
On 10/16/2011 12:36 PM, Kostas Sytske wrote: What users want you can find on the Ubuntu Brainstorm website: http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/ Not 'users', but the segment of users who are sufficiently enthusiastic and interested enough about Ubuntu, who know about the Brainstorm site, think it's worth their time and have no problem to use the site. -- Thorsten Wilms thorwil's design for free software: http://thorwil.wordpress.com/ ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
