Re: [Ayatana] reduce the font and ui size!
2011/10/17 Matthew Paul Thomas m...@canonical.com What would help here is for someone to make a screenshot comparison of the same windows, laid out in exactly the same positions, on Ubuntu, Windows, and OS X. We might find that the problem is partly font size, but partly also size and padding of interface controls. Here are two similar images showing the file browser and text editor in Windows 7 and Ubuntu Oneiric. - Ubuntu http://image-upload.de/image/KUAqjL/28a9103bae.png - Windows 7 http://image-upload.de/image/uyfCCE/e1bc89e7fa.png Padding (buttons) and font size are smaller and therefore the interface looks feels cleaner in Windows 7. Thats the reason why smaller windows seems to be more useful in Windows than in Ubuntu (compared same sized windows). Traditionally GNOME has a lot of padding (negative example → Totem controls) and wasts a lot of screen space (has been reduced a bit last cycles). So what to do? - Analise every default application UI if they need that big buttons and that much padding/margin - use the same padding/margin in every application if possible - Reduce padding and font size - just a bit → huge difference Kind regards Thibaut PS: If anybody uses Ubuntu, Win and Mac and could make more comparison screenshots it would be awesome. I use Windows only for gaming → my Wintendoo ;) ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] reduce the font and ui size!
I've created such a comparsion. First label shows default monospace font in Windows and in Ubuntu (gedit). Second label (Setup is loading...) shows Windows interface font (setup program) compared to Ubuntu interface font (made in Glade). See how much Windows fonts are clearer and take a lot less space than Ubuntu fonts. 90% of computer users in the world don't have any problem with size that Windows uses (I think they spent a lot more money on research what font size they should be using) - let's say 10% of them change the size of the font. It still leaves 80% of world computer users satisfied (maybe more, not counting Macs) with the font we see in Windows. Even with a lot less userbase MORE Ubuntu users are complaining about font size. Imagine when reading a source code file in gedit you have to scroll every few lines.. then you have to find where you've left reading. It hurts your eyes and makes using of computer a simple pain in the backside. Of coure - Ubuntu 11 looks fancy. But users will do more than looking at the screenshots. If they see that the system is useless except for listening to music, watching videos and browsing Facebook - they just stick to using Windows. With such big fonts and additional padding, windows in Ubuntu are a lot bigger than in other systems. If this is by design, then the design is simply completely wrong. You can't satisfy all users, but you should try satisfying most user's needs, instead of personal preferences of the designers. W dniu 2011-10-20 15:00, Thibaut Brandscheid pisze: 2011/10/17 Matthew Paul Thomas m...@canonical.com mailto:m...@canonical.com What would help here is for someone to make a screenshot comparison of the same windows, laid out in exactly the same positions, on Ubuntu, Windows, and OS X. We might find that the problem is partly font size, but partly also size and padding of interface controls. Here are two similar images showing the file browser and text editor in Windows 7 and Ubuntu Oneiric. * Ubuntu http://image-upload.de/image/KUAqjL/28a9103bae.png * Windows 7 http://image-upload.de/image/uyfCCE/e1bc89e7fa.png Padding (buttons) and font size are smaller and therefore the interface looks feels cleaner in Windows 7. Thats the reason why smaller windows seems to be more useful in Windows than in Ubuntu (compared same sized windows). Traditionally GNOME has a lot of padding (negative example → Totem controls) and wasts a lot of screen space (has been reduced a bit last cycles). So what to do? * Analise every default application UI if they need that big buttons and that much padding/margin o use the same padding/margin in every application if possible * Reduce padding and font size - just a bit → huge difference Kind regards Thibaut PS: If anybody uses Ubuntu, Win and Mac and could make more comparison screenshots it would be awesome. I use Windows only for gaming → my Wintendoo ;) ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Tomasz Sałaciński attachment: comparsion.png___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] reduce the font and ui size!
I feel I should point out that at least in my case, Windows 7 has, after a fresh install, always defaulted to the 125% bigger font preset. My monitor is a 4:3 20in HP, 1600x1200. DPI as I recall is just about 100. I always prefer to set the fonts to the default setting (100%), but it doesn't seem to be the default. YMMV For what it's worth- on my hardware I don't mind the default font and padding size in Ubuntu, but on anything smaller than my laptop's 1400x1050 I imagine it would become annoying pretty fast. TR 2011/10/20 Tomasz Sałaciński tsalacin...@gmail.com I've created such a comparsion. First label shows default monospace font in Windows and in Ubuntu (gedit). Second label (Setup is loading...) shows Windows interface font (setup program) compared to Ubuntu interface font (made in Glade). See how much Windows fonts are clearer and take a lot less space than Ubuntu fonts. 90% of computer users in the world don't have any problem with size that Windows uses (I think they spent a lot more money on research what font size they should be using) - let's say 10% of them change the size of the font. It still leaves 80% of world computer users satisfied (maybe more, not counting Macs) with the font we see in Windows. Even with a lot less userbase MORE Ubuntu users are complaining about font size. Imagine when reading a source code file in gedit you have to scroll every few lines.. then you have to find where you've left reading. It hurts your eyes and makes using of computer a simple pain in the backside. Of coure - Ubuntu 11 looks fancy. But users will do more than looking at the screenshots. If they see that the system is useless except for listening to music, watching videos and browsing Facebook - they just stick to using Windows. With such big fonts and additional padding, windows in Ubuntu are a lot bigger than in other systems. If this is by design, then the design is simply completely wrong. You can't satisfy all users, but you should try satisfying most user's needs, instead of personal preferences of the designers. W dniu 2011-10-20 15:00, Thibaut Brandscheid pisze: 2011/10/17 Matthew Paul Thomas m...@canonical.com mailto:m...@canonical.com What would help here is for someone to make a screenshot comparison of the same windows, laid out in exactly the same positions, on Ubuntu, Windows, and OS X. We might find that the problem is partly font size, but partly also size and padding of interface controls. Here are two similar images showing the file browser and text editor in Windows 7 and Ubuntu Oneiric. * Ubuntu http://image-upload.de/image/**KUAqjL/28a9103bae.pnghttp://image-upload.de/image/KUAqjL/28a9103bae.png * Windows 7 http://image-upload.de/image/**uyfCCE/e1bc89e7fa.pnghttp://image-upload.de/image/uyfCCE/e1bc89e7fa.png Padding (buttons) and font size are smaller and therefore the interface looks feels cleaner in Windows 7. Thats the reason why smaller windows seems to be more useful in Windows than in Ubuntu (compared same sized windows). Traditionally GNOME has a lot of padding (negative example → Totem controls) and wasts a lot of screen space (has been reduced a bit last cycles). So what to do? * Analise every default application UI if they need that big buttons and that much padding/margin o use the same padding/margin in every application if possible * Reduce padding and font size - just a bit → huge difference Kind regards Thibaut PS: If anybody uses Ubuntu, Win and Mac and could make more comparison screenshots it would be awesome. I use Windows only for gaming → my Wintendoo ;) __**_ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/**ListHelphttps://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Tomasz Sałaciński ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] reduce the font and ui size!
The letters in the Segoe example run together, and in My opinion are a bit harder to read than the Ubuntu example. In addition to this, they look clearer because of improper hinting settings, which detracts from the visual appearance of the characters and also makes them harder to read. 2011/10/20 Tomasz Sałaciński tsalacin...@gmail.com: I've created such a comparsion. First label shows default monospace font in Windows and in Ubuntu (gedit). Second label (Setup is loading...) shows Windows interface font (setup program) compared to Ubuntu interface font (made in Glade). See how much Windows fonts are clearer and take a lot less space than Ubuntu fonts. 90% of computer users in the world don't have any problem with size that Windows uses (I think they spent a lot more money on research what font size they should be using) - let's say 10% of them change the size of the font. It still leaves 80% of world computer users satisfied (maybe more, not counting Macs) with the font we see in Windows. Even with a lot less userbase MORE Ubuntu users are complaining about font size. Imagine when reading a source code file in gedit you have to scroll every few lines.. then you have to find where you've left reading. It hurts your eyes and makes using of computer a simple pain in the backside. Of coure - Ubuntu 11 looks fancy. But users will do more than looking at the screenshots. If they see that the system is useless except for listening to music, watching videos and browsing Facebook - they just stick to using Windows. With such big fonts and additional padding, windows in Ubuntu are a lot bigger than in other systems. If this is by design, then the design is simply completely wrong. You can't satisfy all users, but you should try satisfying most user's needs, instead of personal preferences of the designers. W dniu 2011-10-20 15:00, Thibaut Brandscheid pisze: 2011/10/17 Matthew Paul Thomas m...@canonical.com mailto:m...@canonical.com What would help here is for someone to make a screenshot comparison of the same windows, laid out in exactly the same positions, on Ubuntu, Windows, and OS X. We might find that the problem is partly font size, but partly also size and padding of interface controls. Here are two similar images showing the file browser and text editor in Windows 7 and Ubuntu Oneiric. * Ubuntu http://image-upload.de/image/KUAqjL/28a9103bae.png * Windows 7 http://image-upload.de/image/uyfCCE/e1bc89e7fa.png Padding (buttons) and font size are smaller and therefore the interface looks feels cleaner in Windows 7. Thats the reason why smaller windows seems to be more useful in Windows than in Ubuntu (compared same sized windows). Traditionally GNOME has a lot of padding (negative example → Totem controls) and wasts a lot of screen space (has been reduced a bit last cycles). So what to do? * Analise every default application UI if they need that big buttons and that much padding/margin o use the same padding/margin in every application if possible * Reduce padding and font size - just a bit → huge difference Kind regards Thibaut PS: If anybody uses Ubuntu, Win and Mac and could make more comparison screenshots it would be awesome. I use Windows only for gaming → my Wintendoo ;) ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Tomasz Sałaciński ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Ian Santopietro Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html Eala Earendel enlga beorohtast Ofer middangeard monnum sended Pa gur yv y porthaur? Public GPG key (RSA): http://keyserver.ubuntu.com:11371/pks/lookup?op=getsearch=0x412F52DB1BBF1234 ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] reduce the font and ui size!
They are *slightly* harder to read because they're very small (9pt). Ubuntu should use Ubuntu 10, not 11. Remember, that such huge font makes working on smaller screens very annoying (no window will fit the screen, or will force user to scroll/move windows), working on bigger screen makes fonts very, very big. W dniu 2011-10-20 16:34, Ian Santopietro pisze: The letters in the Segoe example run together, and in My opinion are a bit harder to read than the Ubuntu example. In addition to this, they look clearer because of improper hinting settings, which detracts from the visual appearance of the characters and also makes them harder to read. 2011/10/20 Tomasz Sałacińskitsalacin...@gmail.com: I've created such a comparsion. First label shows default monospace font in Windows and in Ubuntu (gedit). Second label (Setup is loading...) shows Windows interface font (setup program) compared to Ubuntu interface font (made in Glade). See how much Windows fonts are clearer and take a lot less space than Ubuntu fonts. 90% of computer users in the world don't have any problem with size that Windows uses (I think they spent a lot more money on research what font size they should be using) - let's say 10% of them change the size of the font. It still leaves 80% of world computer users satisfied (maybe more, not counting Macs) with the font we see in Windows. Even with a lot less userbase MORE Ubuntu users are complaining about font size. Imagine when reading a source code file in gedit you have to scroll every few lines.. then you have to find where you've left reading. It hurts your eyes and makes using of computer a simple pain in the backside. Of coure - Ubuntu 11 looks fancy. But users will do more than looking at the screenshots. If they see that the system is useless except for listening to music, watching videos and browsing Facebook - they just stick to using Windows. With such big fonts and additional padding, windows in Ubuntu are a lot bigger than in other systems. If this is by design, then the design is simply completely wrong. You can't satisfy all users, but you should try satisfying most user's needs, instead of personal preferences of the designers. W dniu 2011-10-20 15:00, Thibaut Brandscheid pisze: 2011/10/17 Matthew Paul Thomasm...@canonical.com mailto:m...@canonical.com What would help here is for someone to make a screenshot comparison of the same windows, laid out in exactly the same positions, on Ubuntu, Windows, and OS X. We might find that the problem is partly font size, but partly also size and padding of interface controls. Here are two similar images showing the file browser and text editor in Windows 7 and Ubuntu Oneiric. * Ubuntuhttp://image-upload.de/image/KUAqjL/28a9103bae.png * Windows 7http://image-upload.de/image/uyfCCE/e1bc89e7fa.png Padding (buttons) and font size are smaller and therefore the interface looks feels cleaner in Windows 7. Thats the reason why smaller windows seems to be more useful in Windows than in Ubuntu (compared same sized windows). Traditionally GNOME has a lot of padding (negative example → Totem controls) and wasts a lot of screen space (has been reduced a bit last cycles). So what to do? * Analise every default application UI if they need that big buttons and that much padding/margin o use the same padding/margin in every application if possible * Reduce padding and font size - just a bit → huge difference Kind regards Thibaut PS: If anybody uses Ubuntu, Win and Mac and could make more comparison screenshots it would be awesome. I use Windows only for gaming → my Wintendoo ;) ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Tomasz Sałaciński ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Tomasz Sałaciński ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] reduce the font and ui size!
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 charlesa...@gmail.com wrote on 15/10/11 19:58: dear unity developer team, could you please reduce the default font and ui size of unity and ubuntu overall, they really taking much screen real estate, or at least give us option to reduce the dpi or ppi setting like the one in windows. after playing with unity and ubuntu 11.04 and 11.10, and changing back to windows, it feels that windows font and ui size are much better, perhaps because it's smaller. for people who love big size font and ui still could enlarge them from dpi or ppi setting. in windows there's a 96% ppi, 100% ppi, and 125% ppi. i also believe in mac osx, the font and ui size are almost identical small with windows. ... What would help here is for someone to make a screenshot comparison of the same windows, laid out in exactly the same positions, on Ubuntu, Windows, and OS X. For example, Thunderbird, Windows Live Mail, and Apple Mail showing the same message in the same Imap mailbox; the Adobe Reader Preferences window; and the Calculator window. We might find that the problem is partly font size, but partly also size and padding of interface controls. - -- mpt -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk6cPKcACgkQ6PUxNfU6ecrJDACgpHs935itz/LbFMlRVwn9Tnsk GhUAoMqGLvaxigrp5kEgSjAmX2854FfB =RDPG -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] reduce the font and ui size!
FYI: Changing the text-scaling-factor is easy with gsettings: $ gsettings set org.gnome.desktop.interface text-scaling-factor FACTOR FACTOR is a float value with high precision For example: $ gsettings set org.gnome.desktop.interface text-scaling-factor 0.9 Also, you can get the current factor with: $ gsettings get org.gnome.desktop.interface text-scaling-factor 1.0 PS: I see the shema for this trick from the recent Tomasz Sałaciński source app ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] reduce the font and ui size!
The text scaling factor setting is highly undesireable. Neighter Mozilla apps or QT apps are respecting it. So with this change you'll get smaller/bigger fonts on the desktop, but Skype, Guitar Pro and Firefox will remain intact. This will make user to search changing Firefox font size in Ubuntu and lead to zero results. I think I should remove text scaling factor from my app. W dniu 18.10.2011 12:47, Angel Guzman Maeso pisze: FYI: Changing the text-scaling-factor is easy with gsettings: $ gsettings set org.gnome.desktop.interface text-scaling-factor FACTOR FACTOR is a float value with high precision For example: $ gsettings set org.gnome.desktop.interface text-scaling-factor 0.9 Also, you can get the current factor with: $ gsettings get org.gnome.desktop.interface text-scaling-factor 1.0 PS: I see the shema for this trick from the recent Tomasz Sałaciński source app ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] reduce the font and ui size!
2011/10/18 Tomasz Sałaciński tsalacin...@gmail.com The text scaling factor setting is highly undesireable. Neighter Mozilla apps or QT apps are respecting it. So with this change you'll get smaller/bigger fonts on the desktop, but Skype, Guitar Pro and Firefox will remain intact. This will make user to search changing Firefox font size in Ubuntu and lead to zero results. I think I should remove text scaling factor from my app. I think that resolve the problem with the text-scaling-factor is not suitable like remove the setting for don't have any problem. If you allow me the expression, that's coward. If Firefox, Skype, Guitar Pro, whatever app don't respect the default font size for the system is the main error on that apps and Ubuntu would enforce to use the global setting or custom setting for the app. That's is a expected behaviour for the common user. Settings are needed, if you remove each setting when you find a design/programmer problem we find a spartan Ubuntu for the incoming years that it forget the main reason for the desktop that is customization. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] reduce the font and ui size!
Hello, Sorry, I am not a Ubuntu developer, I have no power over what is included and what patches are accepted. I'm in doubt that my application will get into Ubuntu, I just wanted to share it with people that like to have such an app. In order to get everything working with this setting Firefox, Thunderbird and QT library need to be patched. W dniu 2011-10-18 14:20, Angel Guzman Maeso pisze: 2011/10/18 Tomasz Sałaciński tsalacin...@gmail.com mailto:tsalacin...@gmail.com The text scaling factor setting is highly undesireable. Neighter Mozilla apps or QT apps are respecting it. So with this change you'll get smaller/bigger fonts on the desktop, but Skype, Guitar Pro and Firefox will remain intact. This will make user to search changing Firefox font size in Ubuntu and lead to zero results. I think I should remove text scaling factor from my app. I think that resolve the problem with the text-scaling-factor is not suitable like remove the setting for don't have any problem. If you allow me the expression, that's coward. If Firefox, Skype, Guitar Pro, whatever app don't respect the default font size for the system is the main error on that apps and Ubuntu would enforce to use the global setting or custom setting for the app. That's is a expected behaviour for the common user. Settings are needed, if you remove each setting when you find a design/programmer problem we find a spartan Ubuntu for the incoming years that it forget the main reason for the desktop that is customization. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] reduce the font and ui size!
I've only ever seen one person adjust the font size on any OS, Ubuntu or otherwise. This person needed the font larger so that he could see easier, and a basic font-size setting is present in Universal Access for people with such needs. Other users *shouldn't* need to adjust their font size, Here are the dependencies for gnome-tweak-tool: ian@Callum:~$ apt-cache depends gnome-tweak-tool gnome-tweak-tool |Depends: python2.7 Depends: python2.6 Depends: python Depends: python Depends: gnome-shell Depends: gsettings-desktop-schemas ian@Callum:~$ The only dependency that isn't installed by default is gnome-shell. Together with gnome-tweak-tool, installing it uses slightly more than 5.5 MB on disk. It will not change any settings nor will it cause gnome-shell to be used instead of Unity, and thus installation has a minimal effect on the system. On top of all of this, gnome-tweak-tool isn't any more third-party than the default control center, as both are developed by gnome upstream. It comes from a reputable source and has a minimal effect on a system. Given this, I would find it hard to route resources away from active development in needed areas to develop a suitable replacement, when such a replacement would only find a niche market anyway. Also, we use slight hinting by default because on most monitors, it is most accurate to the shapes of the font. Settings for changing the hinting style are also found in the Tweak tool. On Sun, Oct 16, 2011 at 08:26, Eylem Koca eylemk...@gmail.com wrote: Normally, I would agree with having to install a third-party app to fine tune a very deep and minor system setting, but font size is not such a setting and I completely disagree with your position here. We have all been criticizing Gnome-Shell for being non-customizable and were hoping Ubuntu could improve on that although they use the same Gnome backend. I understand not having the man-power to implement this but please don't give the sorry excuse of most people Eylem On 10/16/11 2:45 AM, Ian Santopietro wrote: No. It does appeal to some people, but the large majority have no preferences to what the font size is. If you want to change font settings to your liking, you can do this from the gnome-tweak-tool application. You can install it from the software center. On Oct 15, 2011 1:56 PM, Tomasz Sałaciński tsalacin...@gmail.com wrote: I agree with this in 100%. W dniu 15.10.2011 20:58, charlesa...@gmail.com pisze: dear unity developer team, could you please reduce the default font and ui size of unity and ubuntu overall, they really taking much screen real estate, or at least give us option to reduce the dpi or ppi setting like the one in windows. after playing with unity and ubuntu 11.04 and 11.10, and changing back to windows, it feels that windows font and ui size are much better, perhaps because it's smaller. for people who love big size font and ui still could enlarge them from dpi or ppi setting. in windows there's a 96% ppi, 100% ppi, and 125% ppi. i also believe in mac osx, the font and ui size are almost identical small with windows. with all due respect, we're still young, perhaps the bigger one for the old folks, i know my boss love the bigger font size since he is 50+ years old. at least make it more attractive with younger audience. i often to reduce font size in gnome classic to get the point as windows font and ui size, but somehow they still look big for monitors under 1920x1080 resolution. :( i've been quite a long ubuntu users since 7.04 up until now. our office use ubuntu as their primary os up to the end 2010 and changed back to windows due to back office program changing. though unity has great appearance, i find it hard to use when opening multi applications and change them back and forth. gotta love the old task bar on top or below. the side bar is really short due to all monitor tends to have shorter vertical pixel. anyway, keep up the good work, looking forward to 12.04 lts version! hope the UI experience will be much smoother and more polished. kind regards, /charles everytime i get ahead, i feel more dead. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to :
Re: [Ayatana] reduce the font and ui size!
Yes, but normal newbie user don't know that tool such as GNOME Tweak Tool exist. When they are said to download and use it, they may be horrified that such small tool installs packages such as mutter, mesa, alacarte, gnome-panel, gnome-shell and so on and takes about 80 megabytes after installation. And speaking about size - Ubuntu 10 is just more readable (spacing is a lot better). Windows are smaller, so they take a lot less space (which is needed on for example netbooks). Some Windows doesn't even fit the screen and if a newbie user don't know about alt-drag, he won't be able to set up mail account in Evolution. Ubutnu 10 looks a lot clearer sharper with default hinting, too. This isn't exactly a font size issue, but font readability. This could be fixed by better rendering of Ubuntu 11. W dniu 2011-10-17 18:11, Ian Santopietro pisze: I've only ever seen one person adjust the font size on any OS, Ubuntu or otherwise. This person needed the font larger so that he could see easier, and a basic font-size setting is present in Universal Access for people with such needs. Other users *shouldn't* need to adjust their font size, Here are the dependencies for gnome-tweak-tool: ian@Callum:~$ apt-cache depends gnome-tweak-tool gnome-tweak-tool |Depends: python2.7 Depends: python2.6 Depends: python Depends: python Depends: gnome-shell Depends: gsettings-desktop-schemas ian@Callum:~$ The only dependency that isn't installed by default is gnome-shell. Together with gnome-tweak-tool, installing it uses slightly more than 5.5 MB on disk. It will not change any settings nor will it cause gnome-shell to be used instead of Unity, and thus installation has a minimal effect on the system. On top of all of this, gnome-tweak-tool isn't any more third-party than the default control center, as both are developed by gnome upstream. It comes from a reputable source and has a minimal effect on a system. Given this, I would find it hard to route resources away from active development in needed areas to develop a suitable replacement, when such a replacement would only find a niche market anyway. Also, we use slight hinting by default because on most monitors, it is most accurate to the shapes of the font. Settings for changing the hinting style are also found in the Tweak tool. On Sun, Oct 16, 2011 at 08:26, Eylem Kocaeylemk...@gmail.com wrote: Normally, I would agree with having to install a third-party app to fine tune a very deep and minor system setting, but font size is not such a setting and I completely disagree with your position here. We have all been criticizing Gnome-Shell for being non-customizable and were hoping Ubuntu could improve on that although they use the same Gnome backend. I understand not having the man-power to implement this but please don't give the sorry excuse of most people Eylem On 10/16/11 2:45 AM, Ian Santopietro wrote: No. It does appeal to some people, but the large majority have no preferences to what the font size is. If you want to change font settings to your liking, you can do this from the gnome-tweak-tool application. You can install it from the software center. On Oct 15, 2011 1:56 PM, Tomasz Sałacińskitsalacin...@gmail.com wrote: I agree with this in 100%. W dniu 15.10.2011 20:58, charlesa...@gmail.com pisze: dear unity developer team, could you please reduce the default font and ui size of unity and ubuntu overall, they really taking much screen real estate, or at least give us option to reduce the dpi or ppi setting like the one in windows. after playing with unity and ubuntu 11.04 and 11.10, and changing back to windows, it feels that windows font and ui size are much better, perhaps because it's smaller. for people who love big size font and ui still could enlarge them from dpi or ppi setting. in windows there's a 96% ppi, 100% ppi, and 125% ppi. i also believe in mac osx, the font and ui size are almost identical small with windows. with all due respect, we're still young, perhaps the bigger one for the old folks, i know my boss love the bigger font size since he is 50+ years old. at least make it more attractive with younger audience. i often to reduce font size in gnome classic to get the point as windows font and ui size, but somehow they still look big for monitors under 1920x1080 resolution. :( i've been quite a long ubuntu users since 7.04 up until now. our office use ubuntu as their primary os up to the end 2010 and changed back to windows due to back office program changing. though unity has great appearance, i find it hard to use when opening multi applications and change them back and forth. gotta love the old task bar on top or below. the side bar is really short due to all monitor tends to have shorter vertical pixel. anyway, keep up the good work, looking forward to 12.04 lts version! hope the UI experience will be much smoother and more polished. kind regards, /charles everytime i get ahead, i feel more
Re: [Ayatana] reduce the font and ui size!
2011/10/17 Tomasz Sałaciński tsalacin...@gmail.com: Yes, but normal newbie user don't know that tool such as GNOME Tweak Tool exist. When they are said to download and use it, they may be horrified that such small tool installs packages such as mutter, mesa, alacarte, gnome-panel, gnome-shell and so on and takes about 80 megabytes after installation. I seriously doubt that normal newbies users get horrified because gnome-tweak-tool depends on gnome-shell which depends on gnome-panel. Are these the same users that are horrified that Ubuntu doesn't include GNOME Fallback by default now? And since gnome-tweak-tool is listed in most what to do after installing Ubuntu 11.10/GNOME 3 guides, I don't think there is an awareness problem. Yes, a fresh Ubuntu install will not tell you to install gnome-tweak-tool but it's easily found via your favorite search engine if you look for how to change your font size. Jeremy Bicha ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] reduce the font and ui size!
In my opinion the current font size is beatuiful on an HD monitor, much nicer than how windows or mac looks on such high resolution. But on a traditional screen it really is a bit disturbing. For example, on my 1024x600 netbook screen I always have to scale down the fonts to 10-9px for the desktop to remain usable. I think it would be the best if we detected whether its an HD screen or not and set the font-size based on that data. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] reduce the font and ui size!
On Mon, Oct 17, 2011 at 3:40 PM, balint...@gmail.com balint...@gmail.com wrote: In my opinion the current font size is beatuiful on an HD monitor, much nicer than how windows or mac looks on such high resolution. But on a traditional screen it really is a bit disturbing. For example, on my 1024x600 netbook screen I always have to scale down the fonts to 10-9px for the desktop to remain usable. I think it would be the best if we detected whether its an HD screen or not and set the font-size based on that data. I believe we already do that based on what the screen reports as its pixel density [1]. If the two screens look significantly different, one (or both) of them are lying. There's very little we can do in that case. Evan [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pixel_density ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] reduce the font and ui size!
I've never had a problem with the font size with Ubuntu, or with Windows to be honest. I've assisted a lot of users with their desktops over the years and the only reason I've ever heard for adjusting the font is due to eyesight issues, which as has been mentioned previously is available via Universal Access. Even in windows you don't change the fonts manually. I should note that I use Ubuntu on a 13 macbook and on a 30 monitor for a pc, i've never used it on a netbook so I cannot comment on how it appears on a 10 screen. Btw, the issue raised about using a web browser and the font it uses compared to the system font, well to me that would be more a defect with the web browser if it doesn't try and match font size with the OS. In my experience people who don't like the font size in a web browser use the size option for the web browser. That said I'd never noticed the difference in font size between the OS and Firefox until it was mentioned in this thread. It doesn't bother me, in fact if the font of the OS was smaller it would irritate me. Maybe a sign of my age, but to me ease of seeing OS related text is far more important than the size of the text in an article or in a document. I don't think it's reasonable to state they should all be the same size. Just my 2c worth. James. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] reduce the font and ui size!
Since this is a hot issue, I've created a Control Center applet that allows user to change fonts. You can download it here: http://luxperpetua.net/gnome/gnome-font-settings-0.1.tar.bz2 You will have to install dconf: sudo apt-get install libdconf-dev Then, unpack the file, go to directory and type: ./configure --prefix=/usr make make install [as root] Application is translatable (already translated to Polish). If you have any suggestions please mail me. I think I can make a deb out of it and place it on gtk-apps.org. This small app will allow you to change fonts easily (it's where it belongs - control center) and user don't have to download gnome-tweak-tool and all of its dependencies. Regards, Tomasz Sałaciński W dniu 17.10.2011 23:49, James Jenner pisze: I've never had a problem with the font size with Ubuntu, or with Windows to be honest. I've assisted a lot of users with their desktops over the years and the only reason I've ever heard for adjusting the font is due to eyesight issues, which as has been mentioned previously is available via Universal Access. Even in windows you don't change the fonts manually. I should note that I use Ubuntu on a 13 macbook and on a 30 monitor for a pc, i've never used it on a netbook so I cannot comment on how it appears on a 10 screen. Btw, the issue raised about using a web browser and the font it uses compared to the system font, well to me that would be more a defect with the web browser if it doesn't try and match font size with the OS. In my experience people who don't like the font size in a web browser use the size option for the web browser. That said I'd never noticed the difference in font size between the OS and Firefox until it was mentioned in this thread. It doesn't bother me, in fact if the font of the OS was smaller it would irritate me. Maybe a sign of my age, but to me ease of seeing OS related text is far more important than the size of the text in an article or in a document. I don't think it's reasonable to state they should all be the same size. Just my 2c worth. James. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] reduce the font and ui size!
No. It does appeal to some people, but the large majority have no preferences to what the font size is. If you want to change font settings to your liking, you can do this from the gnome-tweak-tool application. You can install it from the software center. On Oct 15, 2011 1:56 PM, Tomasz Sałaciński tsalacin...@gmail.com wrote: I agree with this in 100%. W dniu 15.10.2011 20:58, charlesa...@gmail.com pisze: dear unity developer team, could you please reduce the default font and ui size of unity and ubuntu overall, they really taking much screen real estate, or at least give us option to reduce the dpi or ppi setting like the one in windows. after playing with unity and ubuntu 11.04 and 11.10, and changing back to windows, it feels that windows font and ui size are much better, perhaps because it's smaller. for people who love big size font and ui still could enlarge them from dpi or ppi setting. in windows there's a 96% ppi, 100% ppi, and 125% ppi. i also believe in mac osx, the font and ui size are almost identical small with windows. with all due respect, we're still young, perhaps the bigger one for the old folks, i know my boss love the bigger font size since he is 50+ years old. at least make it more attractive with younger audience. i often to reduce font size in gnome classic to get the point as windows font and ui size, but somehow they still look big for monitors under 1920x1080 resolution. :( i've been quite a long ubuntu users since 7.04 up until now. our office use ubuntu as their primary os up to the end 2010 and changed back to windows due to back office program changing. though unity has great appearance, i find it hard to use when opening multi applications and change them back and forth. gotta love the old task bar on top or below. the side bar is really short due to all monitor tends to have shorter vertical pixel. anyway, keep up the good work, looking forward to 12.04 lts version! hope the UI experience will be much smoother and more polished. kind regards, /charles everytime i get ahead, i feel more dead. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] reduce the font and ui size!
How do you know that most people don't have any preference about the font size? Every people I know (I tested it on almost 100 people in my company) doesn't want to use Ubuntu because of too big, ugly fonts (interface/deskto fonts are much bigger than website fonts for example). My friend that removed Ubuntu from his computer went to me and said that fonts on my machine look a lot better than they looked on his. I think that it's not font size that matter, but Ubuntu 10 font look a lot sharper than Ubuntu 11 and it's A LOT easier to read - spacing is better, there is no gray outline around the fonts. In previous versions of Ubuntu user was able to make fonts sharper by selecting Full hinting from the font menu, but I see that there is no such key in dconf anymore. Also, gnome-tweak-tool installs a lot of dependencies and it makes the Ubuntu experience a lot worse for users without eagle sight that want to make fonts more readable. W dniu 16.10.2011 08:45, Ian Santopietro pisze: No. It does appeal to some people, but the large majority have no preferences to what the font size is. If you want to change font settings to your liking, you can do this from the gnome-tweak-tool application. You can install it from the software center. On Oct 15, 2011 1:56 PM, Tomasz Sałaciński tsalacin...@gmail.com mailto:tsalacin...@gmail.com wrote: I agree with this in 100%. W dniu 15.10.2011 20:58, charlesa...@gmail.com mailto:charlesa...@gmail.com pisze: dear unity developer team, could you please reduce the default font and ui size of unity and ubuntu overall, they really taking much screen real estate, or at least give us option to reduce the dpi or ppi setting like the one in windows. after playing with unity and ubuntu 11.04 and 11.10, and changing back to windows, it feels that windows font and ui size are much better, perhaps because it's smaller. for people who love big size font and ui still could enlarge them from dpi or ppi setting. in windows there's a 96% ppi, 100% ppi, and 125% ppi. i also believe in mac osx, the font and ui size are almost identical small with windows. with all due respect, we're still young, perhaps the bigger one for the old folks, i know my boss love the bigger font size since he is 50+ years old. at least make it more attractive with younger audience. i often to reduce font size in gnome classic to get the point as windows font and ui size, but somehow they still look big for monitors under 1920x1080 resolution. :( i've been quite a long ubuntu users since 7.04 up until now. our office use ubuntu as their primary os up to the end 2010 and changed back to windows due to back office program changing. though unity has great appearance, i find it hard to use when opening multi applications and change them back and forth. gotta love the old task bar on top or below. the side bar is really short due to all monitor tends to have shorter vertical pixel. anyway, keep up the good work, looking forward to 12.04 lts version! hope the UI experience will be much smoother and more polished. kind regards, /charles everytime i get ahead, i feel more dead. ___ Mailing list:https://launchpad.net/~ayatana https://launchpad.net/%7Eayatana Post to :ayatana@lists.launchpad.net mailto:ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe :https://launchpad.net/~ayatana https://launchpad.net/%7Eayatana More help :https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana https://launchpad.net/%7Eayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net mailto:ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana https://launchpad.net/%7Eayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] reduce the font and ui size
I've had the opposite experience with Windows. I find the Windows font painfully small and scanty. It's always refreshing to get to use Ubuntu with ubuntu-font because I feel like the font size and everything is sized just right. One of the things I like about Ubuntu over Windows is how, in my opinion, ubuntu sizes everything just right. I guess we have the opposite impressions/experiences. Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2011 01:54:30 +0700 From: charlesa...@gmail.com To: ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Subject: [Ayatana] reduce the font and ui size dear unity developer team, could you please reduce the default font and ui size of unity and ubuntu overall, they really taking much screen real estate, or at least give us option to reduce the dpi or ppi setting like the one in windows. after playing with unity and ubuntu 11.04 and 11.10, and changing back to windows, it feels that windows font and ui size are much better, perhaps because it's smaller. for people who love big size font and ui still could enlarge them from dpi or ppi setting. in windows there's a 96% ppi, 100% ppi, and 125% ppi. i also believe in mac osx, the font and ui size are almost identical small with windows. with all due respect, we're still young, perhaps the bigger one for the old folks, i know my boss love the bigger font size since he is 50+ years old. at least make it more attractive with younger audience. i often to reduce font size in gnome classic to get the point as windows font and ui size, but somehow they still look big for monitors under 1920x1080 resolution. :( i've been quite a long ubuntu users since 7.04 up until now. our office use ubuntu as their primary os up to the end 2010 and changed back to windows due to back office program changing. though unity has great appearance, i find it hard to use when opening multi applications and change them back and forth. gotta love the old task bar on top or below. the side bar is really short due to all monitor tends to have shorter vertical pixel. anyway, keep up the good work, looking forward to 12.04 lts version! hope the UI experience will be much smoother and more polished. kind regards, /charleseverytime i get ahead, i feel more dead. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] reduce the font and ui size!
Normally, I would agree with having to install a third-party app to fine tune a very deep and minor system setting, but font size is not such a setting and I completely disagree with your position here. We have all been criticizing Gnome-Shell for being non-customizable and were hoping Ubuntu could improve on that although they use the same Gnome backend. I understand not having the man-power to implement this but please don't give the sorry excuse of most people Eylem On 10/16/11 2:45 AM, Ian Santopietro wrote: No. It does appeal to some people, but the large majority have no preferences to what the font size is. If you want to change font settings to your liking, you can do this from the gnome-tweak-tool application. You can install it from the software center. On Oct 15, 2011 1:56 PM, Tomasz Sa?acin'ski tsalacin...@gmail.com mailto:tsalacin...@gmail.com wrote: I agree with this in 100%. W dniu 15.10.2011 20:58, charlesa...@gmail.com mailto:charlesa...@gmail.com pisze: dear unity developer team, could you please reduce the default font and ui size of unity and ubuntu overall, they really taking much screen real estate, or at least give us option to reduce the dpi or ppi setting like the one in windows. after playing with unity and ubuntu 11.04 and 11.10, and changing back to windows, it feels that windows font and ui size are much better, perhaps because it's smaller. for people who love big size font and ui still could enlarge them from dpi or ppi setting. in windows there's a 96% ppi, 100% ppi, and 125% ppi. i also believe in mac osx, the font and ui size are almost identical small with windows. with all due respect, we're still young, perhaps the bigger one for the old folks, i know my boss love the bigger font size since he is 50+ years old. at least make it more attractive with younger audience. i often to reduce font size in gnome classic to get the point as windows font and ui size, but somehow they still look big for monitors under 1920x1080 resolution. :( i've been quite a long ubuntu users since 7.04 up until now. our office use ubuntu as their primary os up to the end 2010 and changed back to windows due to back office program changing. though unity has great appearance, i find it hard to use when opening multi applications and change them back and forth. gotta love the old task bar on top or below. the side bar is really short due to all monitor tends to have shorter vertical pixel. anyway, keep up the good work, looking forward to 12.04 lts version! hope the UI experience will be much smoother and more polished. kind regards, /charles everytime i get ahead, i feel more dead. ___ Mailing list:https://launchpad.net/~ayatana https://launchpad.net/%7Eayatana Post to :ayatana@lists.launchpad.net mailto:ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe :https://launchpad.net/~ayatana https://launchpad.net/%7Eayatana More help :https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana https://launchpad.net/%7Eayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net mailto:ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana https://launchpad.net/%7Eayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] reduce the font and ui size
Exactly. It's not about what size is right. It's about being able to customize it to your own liking. Eylem On 10/16/11 9:56 AM, nick rundy wrote: I've had the opposite experience with Windows. I find the Windows font painfully small and scanty. It's always refreshing to get to use Ubuntu with ubuntu-font because I feel like the font size and everything is sized just right. One of the things I like about Ubuntu over Windows is how, in my opinion, ubuntu sizes everything just right. I guess we have the opposite impressions/experiences. Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2011 01:54:30 +0700 From: charlesa...@gmail.com To: ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Subject: [Ayatana] reduce the font and ui size dear unity developer team, could you please reduce the default font and ui size of unity and ubuntu overall, they really taking much screen real estate, or at least give us option to reduce the dpi or ppi setting like the one in windows. after playing with unity and ubuntu 11.04 and 11.10, and changing back to windows, it feels that windows font and ui size are much better, perhaps because it's smaller. for people who love big size font and ui still could enlarge them from dpi or ppi setting. in windows there's a 96% ppi, 100% ppi, and 125% ppi. i also believe in mac osx, the font and ui size are almost identical small with windows. with all due respect, we're still young, perhaps the bigger one for the old folks, i know my boss love the bigger font size since he is 50+ years old. at least make it more attractive with younger audience. i often to reduce font size in gnome classic to get the point as windows font and ui size, but somehow they still look big for monitors under 1920x1080 resolution. :( i've been quite a long ubuntu users since 7.04 up until now. our office use ubuntu as their primary os up to the end 2010 and changed back to windows due to back office program changing. though unity has great appearance, i find it hard to use when opening multi applications and change them back and forth. gotta love the old task bar on top or below. the side bar is really short due to all monitor tends to have shorter vertical pixel. anyway, keep up the good work, looking forward to 12.04 lts version! hope the UI experience will be much smoother and more polished. kind regards, /charles everytime i get ahead, i feel more dead. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] reduce the font and ui size
2011/10/16 nick rundy nru...@hotmail.com I've had the opposite experience with Windows. I find the Windows font painfully small and scanty. It's always refreshing to get to use Ubuntu with ubuntu-font because I feel like the font size and everything is sized just right. One of the things I like about Ubuntu over Windows is how, in my opinion, ubuntu sizes everything just right. I guess we have the opposite impressions/experiences. Then again I'm somewhere in the middle ground. If find default Windows fonts too small (Tahoma 8.75pt and Segoe UI 9.25pt) and default Ubuntu fonts too large (Ubuntu 11pt). To my eyes, the middle ground of Ubuntu 10pt is somewhere close to perfect. Funnily enough, every single Ubuntu user I know immediately reduces font sizes to 10pt after install. My most common support request for 11.10 is how do I change fonts, followed by how do I change themes (fortunately, the answer is identical: gnome-tweak-tool). This is irregardless of the monitor size and PPI. I prefer Ubuntu 10pt on my 23'' 96ppi panel, my 11.6'' 135ppi netbook and my old-school 19'' 100ppi CRT. As someone commented above, the character spacing just feels more natural. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] reduce the font and ui size
I also have no problem with the size. I think that they are perfect, but I know many persons who say the font is too big... Just found out that you can change it in the accessibility menu, but small is too small, and normal is ideal. Found it out cause I thought they may be older persons who wants big fonts Am 16.10.2011 16:27, schrieb Eylem Koca: Exactly. It's not about what size is right. It's about being able to customize it to your own liking. Eylem On 10/16/11 9:56 AM, nick rundy wrote: I've had the opposite experience with Windows. I find the Windows font painfully small and scanty. It's always refreshing to get to use Ubuntu with ubuntu-font because I feel like the font size and everything is sized just right. One of the things I like about Ubuntu over Windows is how, in my opinion, ubuntu sizes everything just right. I guess we have the opposite impressions/experiences. Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2011 01:54:30 +0700 From: charlesa...@gmail.com To: ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Subject: [Ayatana] reduce the font and ui size dear unity developer team, could you please reduce the default font and ui size of unity and ubuntu overall, they really taking much screen real estate, or at least give us option to reduce the dpi or ppi setting like the one in windows. after playing with unity and ubuntu 11.04 and 11.10, and changing back to windows, it feels that windows font and ui size are much better, perhaps because it's smaller. for people who love big size font and ui still could enlarge them from dpi or ppi setting. in windows there's a 96% ppi, 100% ppi, and 125% ppi. i also believe in mac osx, the font and ui size are almost identical small with windows. with all due respect, we're still young, perhaps the bigger one for the old folks, i know my boss love the bigger font size since he is 50+ years old. at least make it more attractive with younger audience. i often to reduce font size in gnome classic to get the point as windows font and ui size, but somehow they still look big for monitors under 1920x1080 resolution. :( i've been quite a long ubuntu users since 7.04 up until now. our office use ubuntu as their primary os up to the end 2010 and changed back to windows due to back office program changing. though unity has great appearance, i find it hard to use when opening multi applications and change them back and forth. gotta love the old task bar on top or below. the side bar is really short due to all monitor tends to have shorter vertical pixel. anyway, keep up the good work, looking forward to 12.04 lts version! hope the UI experience will be much smoother and more polished. kind regards, /charles everytime i get ahead, i feel more dead. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list:https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to :ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe :https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help :https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] reduce the font and ui size
Sorry I forgot to say, that this is a strange place and on some screens the small options seems to be good. But it*s the first time ever I opened the accessibility menu^^ /I also have no problem with the size. I think that they are perfect, but I know many persons who say the font is too big.../ // / Just found out that you can change it in the accessibility menu, but small is too small, and normal is ideal./ // / Found it out cause I thought they may be older persons who wants big fonts/ ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] reduce the font and ui size!
I agree with this in 100%. W dniu 15.10.2011 20:58, charlesa...@gmail.com pisze: dear unity developer team, could you please reduce the default font and ui size of unity and ubuntu overall, they really taking much screen real estate, or at least give us option to reduce the dpi or ppi setting like the one in windows. after playing with unity and ubuntu 11.04 and 11.10, and changing back to windows, it feels that windows font and ui size are much better, perhaps because it's smaller. for people who love big size font and ui still could enlarge them from dpi or ppi setting. in windows there's a 96% ppi, 100% ppi, and 125% ppi. i also believe in mac osx, the font and ui size are almost identical small with windows. with all due respect, we're still young, perhaps the bigger one for the old folks, i know my boss love the bigger font size since he is 50+ years old. at least make it more attractive with younger audience. i often to reduce font size in gnome classic to get the point as windows font and ui size, but somehow they still look big for monitors under 1920x1080 resolution. :( i've been quite a long ubuntu users since 7.04 up until now. our office use ubuntu as their primary os up to the end 2010 and changed back to windows due to back office program changing. though unity has great appearance, i find it hard to use when opening multi applications and change them back and forth. gotta love the old task bar on top or below. the side bar is really short due to all monitor tends to have shorter vertical pixel. anyway, keep up the good work, looking forward to 12.04 lts version! hope the UI experience will be much smoother and more polished. kind regards, /charles everytime i get ahead, i feel more dead. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
