Re: [Ayatana] super+n+up/down/home to rearrange launcher icons.
2011/9/28 Jo-Erlend Schinstad joerlend.schins...@gmail.com Den 27. sep. 2011 16:39, skrev David: I like the idea, but wouldn't it mean coding a delay before Unity actually launches the program? Otherwise, how will it know whether you want to launch or just move the icon? No, it wouldn't, because you wouldn't actually initiate anything until the buttons were released. From a users point of view, this shouldn't change anything. If you press and hold super+2, then nothing happens, except that the launcher stays visible. When you release 2, then you switch to the second entry. I just tried and the Launcher currently activates on key press, not release. Super+2 activates without releasing the key. Change the key press to key release would indeed introduce an unacceptable delay. I have already filed bugs on Unity for things that are activated on release rather than press, like the BFB (now Dash button - it's not movable so there's absolutely no reason to activate on release). These things make Unity feel slow, even though it isn't. Gratuitously introduce more delays is not the way to go. Especially since you can add a different shortcut for reordering, such as Shift+Super, and keep *both* actions on key press. In fact, that's how the workspace switcher works: Control+Alt is activated on key down, as is Shift+Control+Alt. Simple, symmetrical and no additional delays. (Interesting anecdote: many reviewers commented that Office 2007 was much faster than Office 2003 because its right-click menu activates on mouse down and not mouse up. This was actually made a big deal back then! I'm bringing this up to highlight that this is not a non-issue - there is measurable speed difference that affects user satisfaction). ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] super+n+up/down/home to rearrange launcher icons.
Den 28. sep. 2011 11:24, skrev Stefanos A.: I just tried and the Launcher currently activates on key press, not release. Super+2 activates without releasing the key. Yes, and that would have to be changed. Change the key press to key release would indeed introduce an unacceptable delay. I have already filed bugs on Unity for things that are activated on release rather than press, like the BFB (now Dash button - it's not movable so there's absolutely no reason to activate on release). These things make Unity feel slow, even though it isn't. Gratuitously introduce more delays is not the way to go. Unacceptable delay? I estimate a delay of about 20ms. Perhaps you've misunderstood something? Especially since you can add a different shortcut for reordering, such as Shift+Super, and keep *both* actions on key press. In fact, that's how the workspace switcher works: Control+Alt is activated on key down, as is Shift+Control+Alt. Simple, symmetrical and no additional delays. It would never make sense to cancel those events. That's something that's been bugging me about Gnome for many years, that if you clicked the wrong menu entry, then it was not possible to cancel it. You would have to run that application, close it, open the menu and then start the right application. If the action was initiated on release, then you could've simply pressed esc to cancel. It's seriously annoying to be unable to cancel launching LibreOffice because I hit 5 instead of 4. I should be able to hit esc before I release and prevent it. (Interesting anecdote: many reviewers commented that Office 2007 was much faster than Office 2003 because its right-click menu activates on mouse down and not mouse up. This was actually made a big deal back then! I'm bringing this up to highlight that this is not a non-issue - there is measurable speed difference that affects user satisfaction). I am unable to verify that claim, but I've been told that many people gets kidnapped by aliens too. Those kinds of unsubstantiated claims carry very little weight with me. But you're talking about consistency? When you use the mouse, then the entries are not activated by press, but by release, and only if you don't press and hold for long periods of time, like more than one second. When you use the keyboard, it is opposite. Why is that a good idea? In any event, I realized that it would be better to hold shift in alt+f1 to move entries up and down. Jo-Erlend Schinstad ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] super+n+up/down/home to rearrange launcher icons.
2011/9/28 Jo-Erlend Schinstad joerlend.schins...@gmail.com Den 28. sep. 2011 11:24, skrev Stefanos A.: Change the key press to key release would indeed introduce an unacceptable delay. I have already filed bugs on Unity for things that are activated on release rather than press, like the BFB (now Dash button - it's not movable so there's absolutely no reason to activate on release). These things make Unity feel slow, even though it isn't. Gratuitously introduce more delays is not the way to go. Unacceptable delay? I estimate a delay of about 20ms. Perhaps you've misunderstood something? Where did you pull this 20ms estimation from? Any references? As you said, those kinds of unsubstantiated claims carry very little weight with me . (Your number is wrong by an order of magnitude, but I'd really love to hear how you arrived at 20ms.) Especially since you can add a different shortcut for reordering, such as Shift+Super, and keep *both* actions on key press. In fact, that's how the workspace switcher works: Control+Alt is activated on key down, as is Shift+Control+Alt. Simple, symmetrical and no additional delays. It would never make sense to cancel those events. That's something that's been bugging me about Gnome for many years, that if you clicked the wrong menu entry, then it was not possible to cancel it. You would have to run that application, close it, open the menu and then start the right application. If the action was initiated on release, then you could've simply pressed esc to cancel. It's seriously annoying to be unable to cancel launching LibreOffice because I hit 5 instead of 4. I should be able to hit esc before I release and prevent it. Off-hand, this looks difficult to implement, because the Launcher does not have keyboard focus and will not (cannot) receive the Esc key without bad side-effects. It's an interesting idea but doesn't really belong to this thread. (Interesting anecdote: many reviewers commented that Office 2007 was much faster than Office 2003 because its right-click menu activates on mouse down and not mouse up. This was actually made a big deal back then! I'm bringing this up to highlight that this is not a non-issue - there is measurable speed difference that affects user satisfaction). I am unable to verify that claim, but I've been told that many people gets kidnapped by aliens too. Those kinds of unsubstantiated claims carry very little weight with me. But you're talking about consistency? When you use the mouse, then the entries are not activated by press, but by release, and only if you don't press and hold for long periods of time, like more than one second. When you use the keyboard, it is opposite. Why is that a good idea? My anecdote came from a reputable dead-tree IT magazine back from 2006, in a language you are unlikely to be proficient in. Google results in too much noise, so just take it or leave it. (However, you can verify the claim very easily if you have access to Office 2007 and 2003 or LibreOffice). In any case mouse is completely different than the keyboard. All Gnome keyboard shortcuts act upon key press (Alt+F4, Ctrl+W, ...) and applications are should not mess with that. There is no clear guideline for mouse press vs release, so Unity is in gray waters there (most Gnome mouse navigation acts in mouse press but I can see where the Unity developers are coming from. I'd certainly prefer Shift+Click for moving Launcher items, instead of dragdrop). ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] super+n+up/down/home to rearrange launcher icons.
seems like it'd be easier to have a few arrangements that you could use hot keys to swap to. that way instead of having to rearrange your launcher each time you could just the key command once and you're finished. or for that matter why not make it so the user could add or remove the number of launcher arrangements to their liking. would it be too difficult to have it set up similarly to how you manually add launcher quicklists to the launcher items themselves? you know something having a config file like Arrangements=Art1;Media2;Whut3 [Art1 Arrangement] shortcut=ALT+SUPER+1 launchers= /home/USER/myShortcuts/blender.desktop, /home/USER/myShortcuts/mypaint2.desktop, gimp.desktop [Media2 Arrangement] shortcut=ALT+SUPER+2 launchers= /home/USER/myShortcuts/Exaile.desktop, vlc.desktop, mplayer.desktop [Whut3 Arrangement] shortcut=ALT+SUPER+3 launchers= /home/USER/myShortcuts/home.desktop, /home/USER/myShortcuts/chromium.desktop the user wouldn't really have to type each .desktop into the list they wanted. after creating the arrangement they could simply swap to it and add/remove things like normal. On Tue, Sep 27, 2011 at 8:06 AM, Jo-Erlend Schinstad joerlend.schins...@gmail.com wrote: I rearrange launcher entries fairly often as I change contexts. For instance, when I'm programming, the terminal is 3, geany is 4, bazaar-explorer is 5, etc. When I'm playing the guitar, then Audacity is 3, Tuxguitar is 4, etc. This makes it very easy for me to switch between apps using one hand and I really love it. However, it just dawned on me that I always use the mouse to rearrange those entries. That should not be necessary. I should be able to press super+3downdowndown to move the third entry down to the sixth place, super+5upup to move 5 to 3, and so forth. I should also be able to press super+7+del to remove the seventh entry from the launcher. Similar, I should be able to press super+5+home to keep the fifth entry on the launcher. It would also be nice if I could use super+4rightarrow to expose its quicklist and then use up and down to navigate that menu. What do you think? Jo-Erlend Schinstad __**_ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/**ListHelphttps://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Josh Strawbridge ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] super+n+up/down/home to rearrange launcher icons.
I like the idea, but wouldn't it mean coding a delay before Unity actually launches the program? Otherwise, how will it know whether you want to launch or just move the icon? I've been thinking of something similar for a while; my idea was to have launchers that opened more than one program at a time, in effect a kind of session launcher, but the way they worked became more complicated the more I thought about it. Your post made me think of something (slightly) less complicated: Somewhere in the code, Unity stores what's on the launcher bar, right? Well, how about it stores multiple config files, so there are you can have multiple arrangements of launchers that you can switch between? That way, you could have terminal, geany, bazaar-explorer etc., in the different orders you want, and instead of moving them about, you just switch to the launcher bar that has them in the order you want at the point you need them. The way I imagine it, it would be as if the launcher bar has pages. The advantages are clear to me: you have all the GTD goodness of focus (you could have only the tools you need for a particular task, without the temptations of a firefox launcher) plus each bar wouldn't be over-laden with every launcher the user thinks they'll ever need. The main problem I can see is that it'll take more than just multiple config files to make it work; each bar has to display each program that is open, for example, and how do you switch between the different bars? A keyboard shortcut is the obvious answer, but what about the mouse? Page dots (under the Dash button?) is the first thing that comes to mind, but they'll be small targets for the mouse to hit, and Unity isn't about small targets. On 27/09/11 14:06, Jo-Erlend Schinstad wrote: I rearrange launcher entries fairly often as I change contexts. For instance, when I'm programming, the terminal is 3, geany is 4, bazaar-explorer is 5, etc. When I'm playing the guitar, then Audacity is 3, Tuxguitar is 4, etc. This makes it very easy for me to switch between apps using one hand and I really love it. However, it just dawned on me that I always use the mouse to rearrange those entries. That should not be necessary. I should be able to press super+3downdowndown to move the third entry down to the sixth place, super+5upup to move 5 to 3, and so forth. I should also be able to press super+7+del to remove the seventh entry from the launcher. Similar, I should be able to press super+5+home to keep the fifth entry on the launcher. It would also be nice if I could use super+4rightarrow to expose its quicklist and then use up and down to navigate that menu. What do you think? Jo-Erlend Schinstad ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] super+n+up/down/home to rearrange launcher icons.
Cool, but if it was a bug on launchpad, it would be Triaged. Rearranging the launchers should not be a frequent task, thus it would not deserve so many shortcuts. Things should be simple, such as dragging (however, a context menu would be nice too). For people like Jo-Erlend Schinstad, it'd be nice to do what mmorpgs like Lineage II, WoW and Runes of Magic do: Different rows of launchers that you can switch to. Take a look at this: http://boards.lineage2.com/showthread.php?t=206161 There, the player arranges his skills (launcher icons) in any order and then he can click on the arrows next to the numbers to switch from one to another. So, row 1 would be for everyday use, row 2 for guitar recording, row 3 for programming or something else. As a feature request, this maybe nice for an addon, plugin or extension. 2011/9/27 Josh Strawbridge holyknightjos...@gmail.com: seems like it'd be easier to have a few arrangements that you could use hot keys to swap to. that way instead of having to rearrange your launcher each time you could just the key command once and you're finished. or for that matter why not make it so the user could add or remove the number of launcher arrangements to their liking. would it be too difficult to have it set up similarly to how you manually add launcher quicklists to the launcher items themselves? you know something having a config file like Arrangements=Art1;Media2;Whut3 [Art1 Arrangement] shortcut=ALT+SUPER+1 launchers= /home/USER/myShortcuts/blender.desktop, /home/USER/myShortcuts/mypaint2.desktop, gimp.desktop [Media2 Arrangement] shortcut=ALT+SUPER+2 launchers= /home/USER/myShortcuts/Exaile.desktop, vlc.desktop, mplayer.desktop [Whut3 Arrangement] shortcut=ALT+SUPER+3 launchers= /home/USER/myShortcuts/home.desktop, /home/USER/myShortcuts/chromium.desktop the user wouldn't really have to type each .desktop into the list they wanted. after creating the arrangement they could simply swap to it and add/remove things like normal. On Tue, Sep 27, 2011 at 8:06 AM, Jo-Erlend Schinstad joerlend.schins...@gmail.com wrote: I rearrange launcher entries fairly often as I change contexts. For instance, when I'm programming, the terminal is 3, geany is 4, bazaar-explorer is 5, etc. When I'm playing the guitar, then Audacity is 3, Tuxguitar is 4, etc. This makes it very easy for me to switch between apps using one hand and I really love it. However, it just dawned on me that I always use the mouse to rearrange those entries. That should not be necessary. I should be able to press super+3downdowndown to move the third entry down to the sixth place, super+5upup to move 5 to 3, and so forth. I should also be able to press super+7+del to remove the seventh entry from the launcher. Similar, I should be able to press super+5+home to keep the fifth entry on the launcher. It would also be nice if I could use super+4rightarrow to expose its quicklist and then use up and down to navigate that menu. What do you think? Jo-Erlend Schinstad ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Josh Strawbridge ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] super+n+up/down/home to rearrange launcher icons.
2011/9/27 David tenniswithshov...@gmail.com I like the idea, but wouldn't it mean coding a delay before Unity actually launches the program? Otherwise, how will it know whether you want to launch or just move the icon? That is a very good question. Would the reuse Super+# indeed add a delay? If yes, that would be, in my opinion, completely unacceptable. In that case, a different key combination could be used. Shift+Super+# would be a suitable combination, in accordance with the workspace switcher shortcuts (Shift+Ctrl+Alt for moving an item vs Ctrl+Alt for regular use). I've been thinking of something similar for a while; my idea was to have launchers that opened more than one program at a time, in effect a kind of session launcher, but the way they worked became more complicated the more I thought about it. Your post made me think of something (slightly) less complicated: Somewhere in the code, Unity stores what's on the launcher bar, right? Well, how about it stores multiple config files, so there are you can have multiple arrangements of launchers that you can switch between? That way, you could have terminal, geany, bazaar-explorer etc., in the different orders you want, and instead of moving them about, you just switch to the launcher bar that has them in the order you want at the point you need them. The way I imagine it, it would be as if the launcher bar has pages. This is already available: just use multiple user profiles, one for each launcher configuration. Need to switch to a different task? Switch a profile. It's fast, stable and already available. Another reasonable approach: write scripts that launch the necessary applications for each 'task' you wish to support, e.g. 'programming' and 'guitar'. Invoke these scripts through the Dash - problem solved. Third solution: use a different workspace for each task and keep all applications running. Need to switch to another task? Just switch the workspace. (The Launcher should be able to hide application icons that belong to a different desktop). Indeed, I do not consider this use case all that useful or interesting (different Launcher layouts per task). Now, I don't disagree with adding keyboard shortcuts to relocated launcher icons - keyboard navigation is somewhat lacking in Unity currently - but overloading the Launcher to support multiple layouts? That's not really what it was meant to do, plus we already have better solutions. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] super+n+up/down/home to rearrange launcher icons.
Den 27. sep. 2011 16:39, skrev David: I like the idea, but wouldn't it mean coding a delay before Unity actually launches the program? Otherwise, how will it know whether you want to launch or just move the icon? No, it wouldn't, because you wouldn't actually initiate anything until the buttons were released. From a users point of view, this shouldn't change anything. If you press and hold super+2, then nothing happens, except that the launcher stays visible. When you release 2, then you switch to the second entry. Jo-Erlend Schinstad ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
