Re: When are we going to get another list? (was: RE: [backstage] BBC iPlayer Protest tommorow, Tuesday 14th, 10:30AM, White City)
Andrew Bowden wrote: It's also got to be said that the majority of people on a mailing list don't post. I don't know the stats for this list, but I'm on a mailing list of 300 people, about 20 of which post regularly. There's a lot of readers, and occassionally some of them post, but mostly it's reading. Why do people join a list and not post? Well to get the signal. So if there's very little signal, you lose your incentive to remain a reader. Indeed, I've got about 400 unread messages lasting back ages because no-one talks about, you know, XML and APIs anymore. So I don't bother to read, so I'm missing the signal, and it just makes me feel this list isn't cared for. -- From the North, this is Kirk - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: When are we going to get another list? (was: RE: [backstage] BBC iPlayer Protest tommorow, Tuesday 14th, 10:30AM, White City)
Chris, Finally, remember that the noise *is *the signal. You can't post too much. Deploy filters. http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html On 15/08/07, Christopher Woods [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think that description of a shill is fairly accurate myself (but then, I don't think I always fall under the WP NPOV guidelines! ;) Now then, all this discussion regarding MS, DRM, fair use, more DRM, Apple, Windows, more DRM etc... I find hugely interesting, and I even take part in discussions myself - unless other people beat me to making the point I was going to make myself. That said, I am beginning to agree more and more with those who are pointing out that this list is *not* the best venue for all this DRM- and quite specifically-related debate, and I think many of us will agree it's not the kind of off-topic discussion that the Backstage list was primarily brought into being to be a host to. Is there a way the Beeb could make another list just for discussion of these kind of topics, which can run in parallel alongside the main Backstage mailing list (which I've always thought is more for discussion of mashups, new and novel ways of using the BBC's offerings via APIs and feeds and the like)? I'd like to see a 'decluttering' of all this lengthy, and sometimes roundabout, discussion of DRM, iPlayer, interoperability, platform neutrality, but at the same time I'd appreciate the input from people actually working on these kind of projects at the BBC and beyond, but without all of this vigorous (and sometimes heated) debate sullying and diluting the main Backstage list. I know this has been raised in the past, but given this current round of discussions which is taking the list off-topic again, I feel it's more suitable for discussion. I'd definitely subscribe to (and participate in) both! Cheers Christopher -Original Message- From: Gordon Joly [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 15 August 2007 21:17 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] BBC iPlayer Protest tommorow, Tuesday 14th, 10:30AM, White City At 19:44 +0100 15/8/07, Dave Crossland wrote: On 15/08/07, Paul Daniel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear Dave, Who is Dan Lyons? A journalist for Forbes who has constantly attacked the software freedom movement. What is a shill? A shill is an associate of a person selling goods or services or a political group, who pretends no association to the seller/group and assumes the air of an enthusiastic customer. The intention of the shill is, using crowd psychology, to encourage others unaware of the set-up to purchase said goods or services or support the political group's ideological claims. Shills are often employed by confidence artists and governments. - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shill And from that Wikipedia link... This article has been nominated to be checked for its neutrality. I like that Gordo -- Think Feynman/ http://pobox.com/~gordo/ [EMAIL PROTECTED]/// - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ -- Please email me back if you need any more help. Brian Butterworth www.ukfree.tv
Re: When are we going to get another list? (was: RE: [backstage] BBC iPlayer Protest tommorow, Tuesday 14th, 10:30AM, White City)
On 16/08/07, Brian Butterworth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Chris, Finally, remember that the noise is the signal. You can't post too much. Deploy filters. http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html ... which has been taken retrospectively to mean 'post what you like about any subject remotely or even not remotely connected to the BBC'. There are some here who joined to talk about what the list (and the Programme)'s main aims are, not to participate in general-purpose BBC-bashing. Hence I agree that we should separate it out. Peter - Peter Bowyer Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] BBC iPlayer Protest tommorow, Tuesday 14th, 10:30AM, White City
Does iPlayer contain Silverlight? I've not seen anything to suggest it does. What the hell does all this matter anyhow, there is no lock in. The tech is just being used to deliver the content as per spec, which it seems to be doing. Nothing is stopping the BBC ditching MS products for iPlayer at any time with a simple (automatically installed?) patch, right? Seems the anti-DRM protests are misdirected. Why is the yellow jump-suit brigade talking to the people who actually have the power to change it? The rights holders. We've seen rights-cleared videos being released without DRM on bbc.co.uk for years. I don't see anyone hassling Apple - but plenty of people are hassling record labels, and they have gone on to do something about it. iPlayer installation numbers will be tiny compared to Flash installations - you know YouTube gets many, many more visitors that bbc.co.uk? J On 15/8/07 20:15, Dave Crossland [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 14/08/07, Jason Cartwright [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The irony is that it probably doesn't matter now. They could now download it using their Windows XP machine in DRMed Windows Media Format. All thanks to our new overlord Bill, and his maniacal scheme to take over the BBC from the inside. Adobe currently has web video locked down; Apple, Real, Java, Xiph, and of course Microsoft are all in very niche use compared to Adobe Flash. Adobe Apollo is a direct competitor to Microsoft Silverlight, and with the inertia of Flash video and a large group of web designers already familiar with Flash, plus cheaper a licensing model than Microsoft, it looks like its in with a chance. The typical Microsoft response to fair competition is to compete unfairly. iPlayer, and a number of other high profile 2007 BBC projects, are based on Silverlight technology. Highfield's reponse on the Backstage blog points at the other proprietary technologies the BBC foists on the public, but these are based on previous technology decisions; the new stuff is all Silverlight based. 100,000 iPlayer sign-ups in a week, Martin? That's 100,000 more Silverlight installations. Given Microsoft's other major play to deploy Silverlight is Vista, and we all know how well that's working out for them this year, its outrageous to me that the BBC has paid Microsoft _anything_ for forcing license fee payers to install this key piece of strategic technology for them. Then UK is, afterall, one of the most broadband-saturated and media-consuming audiences, leading the way for other nations - Is the BBC likely to open up a non-zero-price iPlayer to international viewers at somepoint? So this is a big win for Microsoft's bid to control the next stage of web development with Silverlight. The BBC is committed to shipping a cross-platform iPlayer, and its a shame that this becomes the sole focus of the reporting on this issue. An iPlayer for 3 or 4 platforms is 3 or 4 times as worse as an XP-only iPlayer, because it is imposing DRM on even more people, and implying that DRM is acceptable. When it does ship a cross-platform iPlayer, I expect it will be based on Novell's Mono Moonlight for GNU/Linux, probably doing the media codec stuff with the GStreamer framework given that Fluendo, its sponsor, sells Windows Media Codecs already - https://shop.fluendo.com/product_info.php?products_id=45 - and the Mac OS X one might be Mono or Microsoft based. That's going to really help the widespread adoption of Silverlight as the Rich Internet Application platform of choice. In 2007, Google has maintained the dominant position for monetising search and advertising - of the text web. Their purchase of YouTube suggested they were serious about monetising the emerging video web, but the DRM aspects of Silverlight video delivery mean that their ability to provide search and advertising for web video is going to be undermined. So the BBC hasn't just helped Microsoft pull a Adobe-killer, it's also helping Microsoft pull a Google-killer. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: When are we going to get another list? (was: RE: [backstage] BBC iPlayer Protest tommorow, Tuesday 14th, 10:30AM, White City)
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brian Butterworth Sent: 16 August 2007 08:47 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: When are we going to get another list? (was: RE: [backstage] BBC iPlayer Protest tommorow, Tuesday 14th, 10:30AM, White City) Chris, Finally, remember that the noise is the signal. You can't post too much. Deploy filters. http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html For my sins, I've been involved with online communities since 1996. During my university years it sometimes felt like I did little else. There's one problem I've personally seen with the signal to noise argument, it's that in a situation where there's huge amounts of noise, ultimately people get fed up of filtering out the noise all the time, and can't be bothered adding the signal - because it feels like, what's the point? Then there's the second problem - people who newly join a list, just see the noise all the time, wonder where the signal is, then disappear off. I've even seen communities wither away and die because of it. Now sometimes signal to noise works - it helps a cohesive group of people together. I'm on a couple of mailing lists where the noise helps the community bond closer, so new people become new friends. (However of course, it can make lists look a bit insular - which can make it harder to join lists as a newbie) It's also got to be said that the majority of people on a mailing list don't post. I don't know the stats for this list, but I'm on a mailing list of 300 people, about 20 of which post regularly. There's a lot of readers, and occassionally some of them post, but mostly it's reading. Why do people join a list and not post? Well to get the signal. So if there's very little signal, you lose your incentive to remain a reader. Sorry, but my own experience says signal to noise is NOT a simplistic situation as some people like to think. When the noise works, it doth good. When the noise doesn't work, it doth big harm.
Re: [backstage] BBC iPlayer Protest tommorow, Tuesday 14th, 10:30AM, White City
On 16/08/07, Jason Cartwright [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Seems the anti-DRM protests are misdirected. Why is the yellow jump-suit brigade talking to the people who actually have the power to change it? The rights holders. The BBC is being very sneaky about responsibility for the DRM: It doesn't name the companies which it asks us to blame, so it is hiding behind them while protecting them too. -- Regards, Dave - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] BBC iPlayer Protest tommorow, Tuesday 14th, 10:30AM, White City
On 16/08/07, Jason Cartwright [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Seems the anti-DRM protests are misdirected. Why is the yellow jump-suit brigade talking to the people who actually have the power to change it? The rights holders. The BBC is being very sneaky about responsibility for the DRM: It doesn't name the companies which it asks us to blame, so it is hiding behind them while protecting them too. Well seeing as you ask, there's already a wealth of information on the internet for those who seek it (and know the correct acronyms) A good start would be the terms of trade agreed with an organisation called PACT who represent independent production companies - and whose members are very keen to exploit the commercial rights to the programmes they make for any broadcaster. One such company, RDF announced plans to put their programmes online commercially, about a year ago. Broadcast would be the best source on such stories, however it's subscription only, so here's a few links that are related to the BBC's discussions with the, http://www.bbc.co.uk/pressoffice/pressreleases/stories/2006/06_june/02/n ewmedia.shtml http://informitv.com/articles/2006/06/02/pactagreesnew/ PACT appear to have the full terms of trade on their website, but sadly you have to work for a member company to see them. www.pact.co.uk - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] BBC iPlayer Protest tommorow, Tuesday 14th, 10:30AM, White City
I can't imagine it would be difficult to get hold of a list of suppliers of BBC programming (in the annual report? FOI act request? Phone the commissioning dept?), then you could just ask the companies themselves (or their PR?) what their opinion on iPlayer and DRM is. FOI act won't help you here though, there is stuff in it to stop details of business relationships getting out. J On 16/8/07 09:36, Dave Crossland [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 16/08/07, Jason Cartwright [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Seems the anti-DRM protests are misdirected. Why is the yellow jump-suit brigade talking to the people who actually have the power to change it? The rights holders. The BBC is being very sneaky about responsibility for the DRM: It doesn't name the companies which it asks us to blame, so it is hiding behind them while protecting them too. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] BBC iPlayer Protest tommorow, Tuesday 14th, 10:30AM, White City
At 09:09 +0100 16/8/07, Jason Cartwright wrote: [...] iPlayer installation numbers will be tiny compared to Flash installations - you know YouTube gets many, many more visitors that bbc.co.uk? J And so it should. YouTube is commercial, part of Google, and hip. The BBC is a corporation, funded by a licence fee (BTW, not required for iPlayer use). The Internet arm of the BBC dates back to the early 1990s and is still a matter of some concern to those of us who believe in the BBC as a *broadcaster*. I believe that the web and other IP based BBC services are also a matter of constant concern to H M Government. -- 73 de Gordo G6DFY - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: When are we going to get another list? (was: RE: [backstage] BBC iPlayer Protest tommorow, Tuesday 14th, 10:30AM, White City)
Hey all was going to announce this when it was actually working but I¹ve set up a new list called backstage-developer; it¹s a list totally devoted to developers and technical issues around BBC feeds and APIs it will be policed to ensure this is the main aim of that list. You¹ll still be able to post these questions to the general list and I¹m sure people will still respond but I think there¹s real value in some of the conversations on the backstage list and I don¹t want them to stop. As soon as I can get MajorDomo to play with the list correctly I¹ll post details on how to join here. m On 16/8/07 09:25, Andrew Bowden [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brian Butterworth Sent: 16 August 2007 08:47 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: When are we going to get another list? (was: RE: [backstage] BBC iPlayer Protest tommorow, Tuesday 14th, 10:30AM, White City) Chris, Finally, remember that the noise is the signal. You can't post too much. Deploy filters. http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html For my sins, I've been involved with online communities since 1996. During my university years it sometimes felt like I did little else. There's one problem I've personally seen with the signal to noise argument, it's that in a situation where there's huge amounts of noise, ultimately people get fed up of filtering out the noise all the time, and can't be bothered adding the signal - because it feels like, what's the point? Then there's the second problem - people who newly join a list, just see the noise all the time, wonder where the signal is, then disappear off. I've even seen communities wither away and die because of it. Now sometimes signal to noise works - it helps a cohesive group of people together. I'm on a couple of mailing lists where the noise helps the community bond closer, so new people become new friends. (However of course, it can make lists look a bit insular - which can make it harder to join lists as a newbie) It's also got to be said that the majority of people on a mailing list don't post. I don't know the stats for this list, but I'm on a mailing list of 300 people, about 20 of which post regularly. There's a lot of readers, and occassionally some of them post, but mostly it's reading. Why do people join a list and not post? Well to get the signal. So if there's very little signal, you lose your incentive to remain a reader. Sorry, but my own experience says signal to noise is NOT a simplistic situation as some people like to think. When the noise works, it doth good. When the noise doesn't work, it doth big harm. ___ Matthew Cashmore Development Producer BBC Future Media Technology, Research and Innovation BC5C3, Broadcast Centre, Media Village, W12 7TP T:020 8008 3959(02 83959) M:07711 913241(072 83959)
Re: [backstage] BBC iPlayer Protest tommorow, Tuesday 14th, 10:30AM, White City
On 16/08/07, Jason Cartwright [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Does iPlayer contain Silverlight? I've not seen anything to suggest it does. It might not today, but its very clear what Microsoft's web-video strategy is. There was an article in The Register today about this: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/08/16/silverlight_iplayer_playready/ What the hell does all this matter anyhow, there is no lock in. The tech is just being used to deliver the content as per spec, which it seems to be doing. Nothing is stopping the BBC ditching MS products for iPlayer at any time with a simple (automatically installed?) patch, right? No lock in? Nothing stopping the BBC ditching MS products? Let's see an iPlayer that is free software then please. -- Regards, Dave - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] BBC iPlayer Protest tommorow, Tuesday 14th, 10:30AM, White City
On 16/08/07, Dave Crossland [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 16/08/07, Jason Cartwright [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Does iPlayer contain Silverlight? I've not seen anything to suggest it does. It might not today, but its very clear what Microsoft's web-video strategy is. There was an article in The Register today about this: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/08/16/silverlight_iplayer_playready/ What the hell does all this matter anyhow, there is no lock in. The tech is just being used to deliver the content as per spec, which it seems to be doing. Nothing is stopping the BBC ditching MS products for iPlayer at any time with a simple (automatically installed?) patch, right? No lock in? Nothing stopping the BBC ditching MS products? Let's see an iPlayer that is free software then please. I guess the idea is Microsoft use the BBC content (that created from licence fees) and use it to leverage their PlayReady system on multiple platforms, so the BBC can claim that the system is cross-platform, whereas people are actually asking for something that isn't owned by Bill Gates' company... -- Regards, Dave - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ -- Please email me back if you need any more help. Brian Butterworth www.ukfree.tv
Re: [backstage] BBC iPlayer Protest tommorow, Tuesday 14th, 10:30AM, White City
in next generation technologies. A3.27 The analysis above considers the potential costs that ISPs using IPStream may incur as a result of the iPlayer. Another short term impact is at the retail level where many consumers are purchasing broadband products which include a cap on monthly download. For example, BT's Option 1 broadband product retails at £17.99/month and is limited to 2GBytes of download each month. End users who currently use this product and subsequently become regularly users of the BBC catch up service will need to upgrade to BT Option 2 which has a 6 GByte download limit and costs an additional £5/month. Whilst other ISPs have different retail offerings, all ISPs using BT wholesale products will be subject to the same underlying costs and hence may need to adjust their retail offerings as service such as BBC catch up become more popular. http://www.ofcom.org.uk/research/tv/bbcmias/ondemand/bbc_ondemand/bbc_ondemand.pdf On 16/08/07, Christopher Woods [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Because of the nature of how the iPlayer CDN works though, it's going to have that disproportionately-big effect on bandwidth and network usage for the ISPs which has already been highlighted in stories on El Reg and ArsTechnica. ...Which leads me to ask: have any of the ISPs actually contacted the BBC and asked for cold, hard cash yet? I just had to laugh so much when I first read that the service providers were getting into a hissy fit about the potential uptake of iPlayer and all the extra bandwidth they'd need to find, but then I started to worry a little because you know what'll happen is that they'll just QoS prioritise anything BUT p2p iPlayer traffic, bunging it alongside bittorrent, and they'll cap our bandwidth usage to buggery (like they already do on VM). I know that when my connection gets capped on VM after using iPlayer on it, I'll be ringing Virgin and raising HELL about it! Maybe the BBC can finally effect some much-needed change in the ISPs' attitude towards bandwidth and service provisioning? Because most UK service providers have been stalling on that front for years, desperately trying to reallocate and apportion out an insufficient amount of available bandwidth whilst obtaining more and more customers... And they wonder why their churn rate is so high... -- *From:* Jason Cartwright [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *Sent:* 16 August 2007 11:05 *To:* backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk *Subject:* Re: [backstage] BBC iPlayer Protest tommorow, Tuesday 14th, 10:30AM, White City That will be the fact that less than 1% of the planet's population lives in the UK? YouTube has almost as much UK traffic as bbc.co.uk [1]. bbc.co.uk content is used/marketed/referred to overseas by BBC Worldwide and the World Service [2]. My point was that iPlayer's impact on media delivery system market shares is probably quite small when compared to the plethora on video sites out there (of which YouTube is the biggest). J [1] http://weblogs.hitwise.com/heather-hopkins/2007/06/youtube_to_overtake_bbc_in_uk_1.html [2] Example: http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/arabic/news/, or go to the homepage and click ' International version'. On 16/8/07 10:34, Brian Butterworth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 16/08/07, *Jason Cartwright* [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Does iPlayer contain Silverlight? I've not seen anything to suggest it does. What the hell does all this matter anyhow, there is no lock in. The tech is just being used to deliver the content as per spec, which it seems to be doing. Nothing is stopping the BBC ditching MS products for iPlayer at any time with a simple (automatically installed?) patch, right? Seems the anti-DRM protests are misdirected. Why is the yellow jump-suit brigade talking to the people who actually have the power to change it? The rights holders. We've seen rights-cleared videos being released without DRM on bbc.co.uk http://bbc.co.uk http://bbc.co.uk/ for years. I don't see anyone hassling Apple - but plenty of people are hassling record labels, and they have gone on to do something about it. Good point. They should talk to http://www.pact.co.uk/ but I guess it's the old everyone has to pay the licence fee issue and all the touchy-freely stuff from the BBC management and BBC Trust (in the vein of it's your BBC) which confuses people. There is clearly a problem now as the Trust supports the management, not the licence-fee payers! I guess people read things like this http://www.bbc.co.uk/pressoffice/pressreleases/stories/2006/09_september/28/microsoft.shtml http://www.bbc.co.uk/pressoffice/pressreleases/stories/2006/09_september/28/microsoft.shtmlhttp://www.bbc.co.uk/pressoffice/pressreleases/stories/2006/09_september/28/microsoft.shtml and put 10 and 10 together and get 101 (binary joke!). iPlayer installation numbers will be tiny compared to Flash installations - you know YouTube gets many, many more
Re: [backstage] BBC iPlayer Protest tommorow, Tuesday 14th, 10:30AM, White City
I guess the idea is Microsoft use the BBC content (that created from licence fees) and use it to leverage their PlayReady system on multiple platforms, so the BBC can claim that the system is cross-platform, whereas people are actually asking for something that isn't owned by Bill Gates' company... s/created/commissioned/; s/people/some people/; m On 16/08/07, Brian Butterworth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 16/08/07, Dave Crossland [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 16/08/07, Jason Cartwright [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Does iPlayer contain Silverlight? I've not seen anything to suggest it does. It might not today, but its very clear what Microsoft's web-video strategy is. There was an article in The Register today about this: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/08/16/silverlight_iplayer_playready/ What the hell does all this matter anyhow, there is no lock in. The tech is just being used to deliver the content as per spec, which it seems to be doing. Nothing is stopping the BBC ditching MS products for iPlayer at any time with a simple (automatically installed?) patch, right? No lock in? Nothing stopping the BBC ditching MS products? Let's see an iPlayer that is free software then please. I guess the idea is Microsoft use the BBC content (that created from licence fees) and use it to leverage their PlayReady system on multiple platforms, so the BBC can claim that the system is cross-platform, whereas people are actually asking for something that isn't owned by Bill Gates' company... -- Regards, Dave - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ -- Please email me back if you need any more help. Brian Butterworth www.ukfree.tv -- Martin Belam - http://www.currybet.net - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] BBC iPlayer Protest tommorow, Tuesday 14th, 10:30AM, White City
On 16/08/07, Martin Belam [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I guess the idea is Microsoft use the BBC content (that created from licence fees) and use it to leverage their PlayReady system on multiple platforms, so the BBC can claim that the system is cross-platform, whereas people are actually asking for something that isn't owned by Bill Gates' company... s/created/commissioned/; And that makes it OK then? Imagine if a bank worked like this, and exchanged your deposits for your gifts... *I* understand what is happening, but I'm sure there are many people in the UK who think that their Licence Fee is used to pay for programmes, largely because that's what the BBC told us it did with the cash for a long time... Actually, the current situation is a bit like a big BBC endowment mortgage where the BBC thinks it has been buying a metaphorical house only to find that the money it has paid isn't going to cover the costs of actual ownership... Can I say that I'm really, really sad about this? I suppose it was the only way the corporation could have survived, but it's a poor state of affairs when a cultural organisation doesn't own the cultural assets it has created for the nation, and can only embrace the future with a leaseback deal. s/people/some people/; I actually meant these people referring to the subject of the email, but some will do. Anyone fancy commissioning a survey of what the GBP Licence fee payers actually think happens to their cash? (I'm sorry, I had some photos printed in the Daily Mail the other day and it must be going to my head...) m On 16/08/07, Brian Butterworth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 16/08/07, Dave Crossland [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 16/08/07, Jason Cartwright [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Does iPlayer contain Silverlight? I've not seen anything to suggest it does. It might not today, but its very clear what Microsoft's web-video strategy is. There was an article in The Register today about this: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/08/16/silverlight_iplayer_playready/ What the hell does all this matter anyhow, there is no lock in. The tech is just being used to deliver the content as per spec, which it seems to be doing. Nothing is stopping the BBC ditching MS products for iPlayer at any time with a simple (automatically installed?) patch, right? No lock in? Nothing stopping the BBC ditching MS products? Let's see an iPlayer that is free software then please. I guess the idea is Microsoft use the BBC content (that created from licence fees) and use it to leverage their PlayReady system on multiple platforms, so the BBC can claim that the system is cross-platform, whereas people are actually asking for something that isn't owned by Bill Gates' company... -- Regards, Dave - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ -- Please email me back if you need any more help. Brian Butterworth www.ukfree.tv -- Martin Belam - http://www.currybet.net - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ -- Brian Butterworth www.ukfree.tv
Re: [backstage] BBC iPlayer Protest tommorow, Tuesday 14th, 10:30AM, White City
Whereas, looking at the photos indicates that 20 is an exaggeration of about 100%. Cheers, R. On 8/15/07, Richard Lockwood [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: More likely, Organisers put the turnout at 800... R. On 8/15/07, Martin Belam [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Presumably on the news we'll get the traditional 10+% rule of Organisers put the turnout at 20 people, whilst The Metropolitan Police said 2-and-a-half-people turned up? cheers, martin On 14/08/07, Dave Crossland [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 14/08/07, David Greaves [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ian Forrester wrote: Yep we were there along with about another 20 people. So were they making a point or trying to make a difference? I believe the additional media coverage of the unconscionable restrictions in the iPlayer will make a difference. -- Regards, Dave - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ -- Martin Belam - http://www.currybet.net - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ -- SilverDisc Ltd is registered in England no. 2798073 Registered address: 4 Swallow Court, Kettering, Northamptonshire, NN15 6XX -- SilverDisc Ltd is registered in England no. 2798073 Registered address: 4 Swallow Court, Kettering, Northamptonshire, NN15 6XX - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] BBC iPlayer Protest tommorow, Tuesday 14th, 10:30AM, White City
A view from America. http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/TheSecretDiaryOfSteveJobs/~3/144065882/freeta rds-attack-bbc-but-get-beaten-off.html Paul Daniel -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Richard Lockwood Sent: 15 August 2007 16:37 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] BBC iPlayer Protest tommorow, Tuesday 14th, 10:30AM, White City More likely, Organisers put the turnout at 800... R. On 8/15/07, Martin Belam [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Presumably on the news we'll get the traditional 10+% rule of Organisers put the turnout at 20 people, whilst The Metropolitan Police said 2-and-a-half-people turned up? cheers, martin On 14/08/07, Dave Crossland [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 14/08/07, David Greaves [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ian Forrester wrote: Yep we were there along with about another 20 people. So were they making a point or trying to make a difference? I believe the additional media coverage of the unconscionable restrictions in the iPlayer will make a difference. -- Regards, Dave - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ -- Martin Belam - http://www.currybet.net - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ -- SilverDisc Ltd is registered in England no. 2798073 Registered address: 4 Swallow Court, Kettering, Northamptonshire, NN15 6XX - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.11.19/953 - Release Date: 14/08/2007 17:19 No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.11.19/953 - Release Date: 14/08/2007 17:19 - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] BBC iPlayer Protest tommorow, Tuesday 14th, 10:30AM, White City
Well. When I was interviewing at about 10:45 there were 12 people there (that's when I took the photos) Ian then came down when I left and he came back and said there were about 20 people there after others joined. m On 15/8/07 16:54, Richard Lockwood [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Whereas, looking at the photos indicates that 20 is an exaggeration of about 100%. Cheers, R. On 8/15/07, Richard Lockwood [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: More likely, Organisers put the turnout at 800... R. On 8/15/07, Martin Belam [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Presumably on the news we'll get the traditional 10+% rule of Organisers put the turnout at 20 people, whilst The Metropolitan Police said 2-and-a-half-people turned up? cheers, martin On 14/08/07, Dave Crossland [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 14/08/07, David Greaves [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ian Forrester wrote: Yep we were there along with about another 20 people. So were they making a point or trying to make a difference? I believe the additional media coverage of the unconscionable restrictions in the iPlayer will make a difference. -- Regards, Dave - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ -- Martin Belam - http://www.currybet.net - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ -- SilverDisc Ltd is registered in England no. 2798073 Registered address: 4 Swallow Court, Kettering, Northamptonshire, NN15 6XX ___ Matthew Cashmore Development Producer BBC Future Media Technology, Research and Innovation BC5C3, Broadcast Centre, Media Village, W12 7TP T:020 8008 3959(02 83959) M:07711 913241(072 83959) - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] BBC iPlayer Protest tommorow, Tuesday 14th, 10:30AM, White City
It seems you made it to the slashdot frontpage! http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/08/15/1721229 Vijay On 15/08/07, Matthew Cashmore [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well. When I was interviewing at about 10:45 there were 12 people there (that's when I took the photos) Ian then came down when I left and he came back and said there were about 20 people there after others joined. m On 15/8/07 16:54, Richard Lockwood [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Whereas, looking at the photos indicates that 20 is an exaggeration of about 100%. Cheers, R. On 8/15/07, Richard Lockwood [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: More likely, Organisers put the turnout at 800... R. On 8/15/07, Martin Belam [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Presumably on the news we'll get the traditional 10+% rule of Organisers put the turnout at 20 people, whilst The Metropolitan Police said 2-and-a-half-people turned up? cheers, martin On 14/08/07, Dave Crossland [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 14/08/07, David Greaves [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ian Forrester wrote: Yep we were there along with about another 20 people. So were they making a point or trying to make a difference? I believe the additional media coverage of the unconscionable restrictions in the iPlayer will make a difference. -- Regards, Dave - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ -- Martin Belam - http://www.currybet.net - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ -- SilverDisc Ltd is registered in England no. 2798073 Registered address: 4 Swallow Court, Kettering, Northamptonshire, NN15 6XX ___ Matthew Cashmore Development Producer BBC Future Media Technology, Research and Innovation BC5C3, Broadcast Centre, Media Village, W12 7TP T:020 8008 3959(02 83959) M:07711 913241(072 83959) - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] BBC iPlayer Protest tommorow, Tuesday 14th, 10:30AM, White City
Dear Dave, Who is Dan Lyons? What is a shill? Who is M...? Namaste Paul Daniel -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Dave Crossland Sent: 15 August 2007 18:33 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] BBC iPlayer Protest tommorow, Tuesday 14th, 10:30AM, White City On 15/08/07, Paul Daniel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A view from America. http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/TheSecretDiaryOfSteveJobs/~3/144065882/freeta rds-attack-bbc-but-get-beaten-off.html Dan Lyons is a well known Microsoft shill. -- Regards, Dave - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.11.19/953 - Release Date: 14/08/2007 17:19 No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.11.19/953 - Release Date: 14/08/2007 17:19 - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] BBC iPlayer Protest tommorow, Tuesday 14th, 10:30AM, White City
Dan Lyons is a well known Microsoft shill. Who said outing him would spoil the Fake Steve Jobs fun? Although I do still like the fact that people put serious comments in reply to the posts, kind of like writing to one of the characters in Monkey Dust to set them straight about something :-) On 15/08/07, Dave Crossland [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 15/08/07, Paul Daniel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A view from America. http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/TheSecretDiaryOfSteveJobs/~3/144065882/freeta rds-attack-bbc-but-get-beaten-off.html Dan Lyons is a well known Microsoft shill. -- Regards, Dave - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ -- Martin Belam - http://www.currybet.net - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] BBC iPlayer Protest tommorow, Tuesday 14th, 10:30AM, White City
From /. An anonymous reader writes The future of iPlayer, the BBC's new online on-demand system for delivering content, is continuing to look bleaker. With ISPs threatening to throttle the content delivered through the iPlayer, consumers petitioning the UK government and the BBC to drop the DRM and Microsoft-only technology, and threatened legal action from the OSC, the last thing the BBC wanted to see today was street protests at their office and at the BBC Media Complex accompanied by a report issued by DefectiveByDesign about their association with Microsoft. Elsewhere in the news, more than 100,000 iPlayer sign-ups in a week ;-) /. is surely the Fox News of the tech world, no? m On 15/08/07, vijay chopra [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It seems you made it to the slashdot frontpage! http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/08/15/1721229 Vijay On 15/08/07, Matthew Cashmore [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well. When I was interviewing at about 10:45 there were 12 people there (that's when I took the photos) Ian then came down when I left and he came back and said there were about 20 people there after others joined. m On 15/8/07 16:54, Richard Lockwood [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Whereas, looking at the photos indicates that 20 is an exaggeration of about 100%. Cheers, R. On 8/15/07, Richard Lockwood [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: More likely, Organisers put the turnout at 800... R. On 8/15/07, Martin Belam [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Presumably on the news we'll get the traditional 10+% rule of Organisers put the turnout at 20 people, whilst The Metropolitan Police said 2-and-a-half-people turned up? cheers, martin On 14/08/07, Dave Crossland [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 14/08/07, David Greaves [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ian Forrester wrote: Yep we were there along with about another 20 people. So were they making a point or trying to make a difference? I believe the additional media coverage of the unconscionable restrictions in the iPlayer will make a difference. -- Regards, Dave - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ -- Martin Belam - http://www.currybet.net - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ -- SilverDisc Ltd is registered in England no. 2798073 Registered address: 4 Swallow Court, Kettering, Northamptonshire, NN15 6XX ___ Matthew Cashmore Development Producer BBC Future Media Technology, Research and Innovation BC5C3, Broadcast Centre, Media Village, W12 7TP T:020 8008 3959(02 83959) M:07711 913241(072 83959) - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ -- Martin Belam - http://www.currybet.net - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] BBC iPlayer Protest tommorow, Tuesday 14th, 10:30AM, White City
On 15/08/07, Paul Daniel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear Dave, Who is Dan Lyons? A journalist for Forbes who has constantly attacked the software freedom movement. What is a shill? A shill is an associate of a person selling goods or services or a political group, who pretends no association to the seller/group and assumes the air of an enthusiastic customer. The intention of the shill is, using crowd psychology, to encourage others unaware of the set-up to purchase said goods or services or support the political group's ideological claims. Shills are often employed by confidence artists and governments. - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shill Who is M...? Namaste But you already knew that. -- Regards, Dave - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] BBC iPlayer Protest tommorow, Tuesday 14th, 10:30AM, White City
On 14/08/07, Jason Cartwright [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The irony is that it probably doesn't matter now. They could now download it using their Windows XP machine in DRMed Windows Media Format. All thanks to our new overlord Bill, and his maniacal scheme to take over the BBC from the inside. Adobe currently has web video locked down; Apple, Real, Java, Xiph, and of course Microsoft are all in very niche use compared to Adobe Flash. Adobe Apollo is a direct competitor to Microsoft Silverlight, and with the inertia of Flash video and a large group of web designers already familiar with Flash, plus cheaper a licensing model than Microsoft, it looks like its in with a chance. The typical Microsoft response to fair competition is to compete unfairly. iPlayer, and a number of other high profile 2007 BBC projects, are based on Silverlight technology. Highfield's reponse on the Backstage blog points at the other proprietary technologies the BBC foists on the public, but these are based on previous technology decisions; the new stuff is all Silverlight based. 100,000 iPlayer sign-ups in a week, Martin? That's 100,000 more Silverlight installations. Given Microsoft's other major play to deploy Silverlight is Vista, and we all know how well that's working out for them this year, its outrageous to me that the BBC has paid Microsoft _anything_ for forcing license fee payers to install this key piece of strategic technology for them. Then UK is, afterall, one of the most broadband-saturated and media-consuming audiences, leading the way for other nations - Is the BBC likely to open up a non-zero-price iPlayer to international viewers at somepoint? So this is a big win for Microsoft's bid to control the next stage of web development with Silverlight. The BBC is committed to shipping a cross-platform iPlayer, and its a shame that this becomes the sole focus of the reporting on this issue. An iPlayer for 3 or 4 platforms is 3 or 4 times as worse as an XP-only iPlayer, because it is imposing DRM on even more people, and implying that DRM is acceptable. When it does ship a cross-platform iPlayer, I expect it will be based on Novell's Mono Moonlight for GNU/Linux, probably doing the media codec stuff with the GStreamer framework given that Fluendo, its sponsor, sells Windows Media Codecs already - https://shop.fluendo.com/product_info.php?products_id=45 - and the Mac OS X one might be Mono or Microsoft based. That's going to really help the widespread adoption of Silverlight as the Rich Internet Application platform of choice. In 2007, Google has maintained the dominant position for monetising search and advertising - of the text web. Their purchase of YouTube suggested they were serious about monetising the emerging video web, but the DRM aspects of Silverlight video delivery mean that their ability to provide search and advertising for web video is going to be undermined. So the BBC hasn't just helped Microsoft pull a Adobe-killer, it's also helping Microsoft pull a Google-killer. -- Regards, Dave - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] BBC iPlayer Protest tommorow, Tuesday 14th, 10:30AM, White City
At 19:44 +0100 15/8/07, Dave Crossland wrote: On 15/08/07, Paul Daniel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear Dave, Who is Dan Lyons? A journalist for Forbes who has constantly attacked the software freedom movement. What is a shill? A shill is an associate of a person selling goods or services or a political group, who pretends no association to the seller/group and assumes the air of an enthusiastic customer. The intention of the shill is, using crowd psychology, to encourage others unaware of the set-up to purchase said goods or services or support the political group's ideological claims. Shills are often employed by confidence artists and governments. - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shill And from that Wikipedia link... This article has been nominated to be checked for its neutrality. I like that Gordo -- Think Feynman/ http://pobox.com/~gordo/ [EMAIL PROTECTED]/// - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
When are we going to get another list? (was: RE: [backstage] BBC iPlayer Protest tommorow, Tuesday 14th, 10:30AM, White City)
I think that description of a shill is fairly accurate myself (but then, I don't think I always fall under the WP NPOV guidelines! ;) Now then, all this discussion regarding MS, DRM, fair use, more DRM, Apple, Windows, more DRM etc... I find hugely interesting, and I even take part in discussions myself - unless other people beat me to making the point I was going to make myself. That said, I am beginning to agree more and more with those who are pointing out that this list is *not* the best venue for all this DRM- and quite specifically-related debate, and I think many of us will agree it's not the kind of off-topic discussion that the Backstage list was primarily brought into being to be a host to. Is there a way the Beeb could make another list just for discussion of these kind of topics, which can run in parallel alongside the main Backstage mailing list (which I've always thought is more for discussion of mashups, new and novel ways of using the BBC's offerings via APIs and feeds and the like)? I'd like to see a 'decluttering' of all this lengthy, and sometimes roundabout, discussion of DRM, iPlayer, interoperability, platform neutrality, but at the same time I'd appreciate the input from people actually working on these kind of projects at the BBC and beyond, but without all of this vigorous (and sometimes heated) debate sullying and diluting the main Backstage list. I know this has been raised in the past, but given this current round of discussions which is taking the list off-topic again, I feel it's more suitable for discussion. I'd definitely subscribe to (and participate in) both! Cheers Christopher -Original Message- From: Gordon Joly [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 15 August 2007 21:17 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] BBC iPlayer Protest tommorow, Tuesday 14th, 10:30AM, White City At 19:44 +0100 15/8/07, Dave Crossland wrote: On 15/08/07, Paul Daniel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear Dave, Who is Dan Lyons? A journalist for Forbes who has constantly attacked the software freedom movement. What is a shill? A shill is an associate of a person selling goods or services or a political group, who pretends no association to the seller/group and assumes the air of an enthusiastic customer. The intention of the shill is, using crowd psychology, to encourage others unaware of the set-up to purchase said goods or services or support the political group's ideological claims. Shills are often employed by confidence artists and governments. - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shill And from that Wikipedia link... This article has been nominated to be checked for its neutrality. I like that Gordo -- Think Feynman/ http://pobox.com/~gordo/ [EMAIL PROTECTED]/// - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] BBC iPlayer Protest tommorow, Tuesday 14th, 10:30AM, White City
Hi Andy - that's really informative - thanks very much :-) m On 13/8/07 21:27, Andy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 13/08/07, Matthew Cashmore [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Cool Perhaps someone would like to post to the list why this protest is happening, what it's aims are (if any) and what are the points that the group would like to get across are? You could try the groups website(s). Defective By Designs website is: http://defectivebydesign.org/ A quick bit of background to provide you with some context (provide corrections anyone if this is incorrect): DBD is a project run by the Free Software Foundation (FSF). DBD's main purpose is the abolition of DRM (Digital Rights Management, or Digital Restriction Management, depending on your view). The FSF is the main sponsor of the Gnu Project, I project that aims to provide a completely free Operating System. Not just free in that you don't have to pay for it but free in that you can do much more with it than other software. For instance you could read the source code (technical term meaning the stuff the software developers/programmers actually type, instead of the code that the machine executes which is normally transformed by a special program, not always though). Currently they provide many tools that are then bundled with the Linux kernel (the kernel is the core of an OS, it does much of the low level stuff that you don't really see but you are glad is there). Needless to say they are likely unhappy at the BBC's actions which could cripple UK Linux adoption. It could also pose significant harm to other OS vendors, such as Apple (of MacOS fame), and the people behind the different versions of BSD. You might find: http://defectivebydesign.org/iPlayerProtest and http://defectivebydesign.org/blog/BBCcorrupted useful to understand why there are protests. FreeTheBBC ( http://www.freethebbc.info/ ) is a project from Binary Freedom Boston, please don't ask why someone from Boston is behind FreeTheBBC, I don't know (and I did ask once). Of course a quick reading of the BBC's charter states clearly that one should not take the term UK license fee payer literally. As I don't know much about Binary Freedoms background I will quote part of their site: 1. Rid BBC content and programming of harmful DRM 2. Make BBC content and programming available in free formats from: http://www.freethebbc.info/node/7 I think the main aims are: - Opening up access to _all_ Operating Systems, not the select few (currently one). As far as I can tell their appears to be no plans for an all OS solution, only a select few, but more than one solution*. - Use of openly specified protocols and formats (of which there are way too may to list, but the BBC knows this already, it's a member of the consortium that writes some of them!!! (BBC is listed as a member of W3C, source: http://www.w3.org/Consortium/Member/List )). - Removal of DRM. Of course you would need to ask the individuals involved what their personal reasoning is. I shall not be there tomorrow, it clashes with a more important event work. I may check news sites during my lunch though, now where does one find an impartial reporter on this matter? _Andy * this is only as far as I can tell, official sources regarding all OS would be welcomed. And in the spirit of the BBC: I am not responsible for the content of external sites, Other websites are available. ___ Matthew Cashmore Development Producer BBC Future Media Technology, Research and Innovation BC5C3, Broadcast Centre, Media Village, W12 7TP T:020 8008 3959(02 83959) M:07711 913241(072 83959) - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] BBC iPlayer Protest tommorow, Tuesday 14th, 10:30AM, White City
So - is there anyone there? (And if so, are they getting wet?) Cheers, Rich. On 8/14/07, Matthew Cashmore [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Andy - that's really informative - thanks very much :-) m On 13/8/07 21:27, Andy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 13/08/07, Matthew Cashmore [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Cool Perhaps someone would like to post to the list why this protest is happening, what it's aims are (if any) and what are the points that the group would like to get across are? You could try the groups website(s). Defective By Designs website is: http://defectivebydesign.org/ A quick bit of background to provide you with some context (provide corrections anyone if this is incorrect): DBD is a project run by the Free Software Foundation (FSF). DBD's main purpose is the abolition of DRM (Digital Rights Management, or Digital Restriction Management, depending on your view). The FSF is the main sponsor of the Gnu Project, I project that aims to provide a completely free Operating System. Not just free in that you don't have to pay for it but free in that you can do much more with it than other software. For instance you could read the source code (technical term meaning the stuff the software developers/programmers actually type, instead of the code that the machine executes which is normally transformed by a special program, not always though). Currently they provide many tools that are then bundled with the Linux kernel (the kernel is the core of an OS, it does much of the low level stuff that you don't really see but you are glad is there). Needless to say they are likely unhappy at the BBC's actions which could cripple UK Linux adoption. It could also pose significant harm to other OS vendors, such as Apple (of MacOS fame), and the people behind the different versions of BSD. You might find: http://defectivebydesign.org/iPlayerProtest and http://defectivebydesign.org/blog/BBCcorrupted useful to understand why there are protests. FreeTheBBC ( http://www.freethebbc.info/ ) is a project from Binary Freedom Boston, please don't ask why someone from Boston is behind FreeTheBBC, I don't know (and I did ask once). Of course a quick reading of the BBC's charter states clearly that one should not take the term UK license fee payer literally. As I don't know much about Binary Freedoms background I will quote part of their site: 1. Rid BBC content and programming of harmful DRM 2. Make BBC content and programming available in free formats from: http://www.freethebbc.info/node/7 I think the main aims are: - Opening up access to _all_ Operating Systems, not the select few (currently one). As far as I can tell their appears to be no plans for an all OS solution, only a select few, but more than one solution*. - Use of openly specified protocols and formats (of which there are way too may to list, but the BBC knows this already, it's a member of the consortium that writes some of them!!! (BBC is listed as a member of W3C, source: http://www.w3.org/Consortium/Member/List )). - Removal of DRM. Of course you would need to ask the individuals involved what their personal reasoning is. I shall not be there tomorrow, it clashes with a more important event work. I may check news sites during my lunch though, now where does one find an impartial reporter on this matter? _Andy * this is only as far as I can tell, official sources regarding all OS would be welcomed. And in the spirit of the BBC: I am not responsible for the content of external sites, Other websites are available. ___ Matthew Cashmore Development Producer BBC Future Media Technology, Research and Innovation BC5C3, Broadcast Centre, Media Village, W12 7TP T:020 8008 3959(02 83959) M:07711 913241(072 83959) - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ -- SilverDisc Ltd is registered in England no. 2798073 Registered address: 4 Swallow Court, Kettering, Northamptonshire, NN15 6XX - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] BBC iPlayer Protest tommorow, Tuesday 14th, 10:30AM, White City
So - is there anyone there? (And if so, are they getting wet?) What do we want? Umberellas! When do we want them? Now! (Actually right now in glorious W12, the rain seems to have ceased.) - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] BBC iPlayer Protest tommorow, Tuesday 14th, 10:30AM, White City
Yep we were there along with about another 20 people. Ian Forrester This e-mail is: [ x ] private; [ ] ask first; [ ] bloggable Senior Producer, BBC Backstage BC5 C3, Media Village, 201 Wood Lane, London W12 7TP e: [EMAIL PROTECTED] p: +44 (0)2080083965 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Andrew Bowden Sent: 14 August 2007 11:25 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: RE: [backstage] BBC iPlayer Protest tommorow, Tuesday 14th, 10:30AM, White City So - is there anyone there? (And if so, are they getting wet?) What do we want? Umberellas! When do we want them? Now! (Actually right now in glorious W12, the rain seems to have ceased.) - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] BBC iPlayer Protest tommorow, Tuesday 14th, 10:30AM, White City
On Tue, 2007-08-14 at 12:32 +0100, Ian Forrester wrote: Yep we were there along with about another 20 people. Ian Forrester And you were talking about 500, scaring the life out of Erik :) - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] BBC iPlayer Protest tommorow, Tuesday 14th, 10:30AM, White City
Ian Forrester wrote: Yep we were there along with about another 20 people. So were they making a point or trying to make a difference? David - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] BBC iPlayer Protest tommorow, Tuesday 14th, 10:30AM, White City
Photos already up on flickr over here http://www.flickr.com/photos/mattcashmore/sets/72157601436583881/ And here http://www.flickr.com/photos/cubicgarden/sets/72157601430492360/ m On 14/8/07 13:07, David Greaves [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ian Forrester wrote: Yep we were there along with about another 20 people. So were they making a point or trying to make a difference? David - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ ___ Matthew Cashmore Development Producer BBC Future Media Technology, Research and Innovation BC5C3, Broadcast Centre, Media Village, W12 7TP T:020 8008 3959(02 83959) M:07711 913241(072 83959) - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] BBC iPlayer Protest tommorow, Tuesday 14th, 10:30AM, White City
A handful here at Manchester NBH, and yes, they're getting pretty soaked. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Richard Lockwood Sent: 14 August 2007 11:14 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] BBC iPlayer Protest tommorow, Tuesday 14th, 10:30AM, White City So - is there anyone there? (And if so, are they getting wet?) Cheers, Rich. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] BBC iPlayer Protest tommorow, Tuesday 14th, 10:30AM, White City
An aside My favourite BBC protest ever: Archers fans complaining about changing the time of the show. Marched up Regent Street with placards, stopped traffic, whilst chanting What do we want? the Archers! When do we want it? Now! What do we say? Please!' What do we want? Umberellas! When do we want them? Now! - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] BBC iPlayer Protest tommorow, Tuesday 14th, 10:30AM, White City
An aside My favourite BBC protest ever: Archers fans complaining about changing the time of the show. Marched up Regent Street with placards, stopped traffic, whilst chanting What do we want? the Archers! When do we want it? Now! What do we say? Please!' :) Were they marching at the exact time the show normally went out and that they wanted it restored to? I really hope so. What do we want? Umberellas! When do we want them? Now! - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] BBC iPlayer Protest tommorow, Tuesday 14th, 10:30AM, White City
The irony is that it probably doesn't matter now. They could now download it using their Windows XP machine in DRMed Windows Media Format. All thanks to our new overlord Bill, and his maniacal scheme to take over the BBC from the inside. J On 14/8/07 14:21, Deirdre Harvey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: An aside My favourite BBC protest ever: Archers fans complaining about changing the time of the show. Marched up Regent Street with placards, stopped traffic, whilst chanting What do we want? the Archers! When do we want it? Now! What do we say? Please!' :) Were they marching at the exact time the show normally went out and that they wanted it restored to? I really hope so. What do we want? Umberellas! When do we want them? Now! - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] BBC iPlayer Protest tommorow, Tuesday 14th, 10:30AM, White City
Can I use one of these photos on my site? Are the CC licenced? On 14/08/07, Matthew Cashmore [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Photos already up on flickr over here http://www.flickr.com/photos/mattcashmore/sets/72157601436583881/ And here http://www.flickr.com/photos/cubicgarden/sets/72157601430492360/ m On 14/8/07 13:07, David Greaves [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ian Forrester wrote: Yep we were there along with about another 20 people. So were they making a point or trying to make a difference? David - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ ___ Matthew Cashmore Development Producer BBC Future Media Technology, Research and Innovation BC5C3, Broadcast Centre, Media Village, W12 7TP T:020 8008 3959(02 83959) M:07711 913241(072 83959) - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ -- Please email me back if you need any more help. Brian Butterworth www.ukfree.tv
Re: [backstage] BBC iPlayer Protest tommorow, Tuesday 14th, 10:30AM, White City
Mr Butterworth :-) As you¹ll see from the flickr streams themselves.. All our photos are released under Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike 2.0 Knock yourself out within that licence. m On 14/8/07 14:50, Brian Butterworth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Can I use one of these photos on my site? Are the CC licenced? On 14/08/07, Matthew Cashmore [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Photos already up on flickr over here http://www.flickr.com/photos/mattcashmore/sets/72157601436583881/ And here http://www.flickr.com/photos/cubicgarden/sets/72157601430492360/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/cubicgarden/sets/72157601430492360/ m On 14/8/07 13:07, David Greaves [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ian Forrester wrote: Yep we were there along with about another 20 people. So were they making a point or trying to make a difference? David - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk http://backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ ___ Matthew Cashmore Development Producer BBC Future Media Technology, Research and Innovation BC5C3, Broadcast Centre, Media Village, W12 7TP T:020 8008 3959(02 83959) M:07711 913241(072 83959) - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk http://backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ ___ Matthew Cashmore Development Producer BBC Future Media Technology, Research and Innovation BC5C3, Broadcast Centre, Media Village, W12 7TP T:020 8008 3959(02 83959) M:07711 913241(072 83959)
Re: [backstage] BBC iPlayer Protest tommorow, Tuesday 14th, 10:30AM, White City
Brian Butterworth wrote: Can I use one of these photos on my site? Are the CC licenced? If you look at any of the photos, you'll see the CC licence they are under (by-nc-sa) on the right hand side of the page. ATB, Matthew On 14/08/07, *Matthew Cashmore* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Photos already up on flickr over here http://www.flickr.com/photos/mattcashmore/sets/72157601436583881/ And here http://www.flickr.com/photos/cubicgarden/sets/72157601430492360/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/cubicgarden/sets/72157601430492360/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] BBC iPlayer Protest tommorow, Tuesday 14th, 10:30AM, White City
They're not mine, but both are listed as CC Att-NonComm-ShareAlike on the site. shorttermmemoryloss.com Brian Butterworth wrote: Can I use one of these photos on my site? Are the CC licenced? On 14/08/07, *Matthew Cashmore* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Photos already up on flickr over here http://www.flickr.com/photos/mattcashmore/sets/72157601436583881/ And here http://www.flickr.com/photos/cubicgarden/sets/72157601430492360/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/cubicgarden/sets/72157601430492360/ m On 14/8/07 13:07, David Greaves [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ian Forrester wrote: Yep we were there along with about another 20 people. So were they making a point or trying to make a difference? David - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk http://backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ ___ Matthew Cashmore Development Producer BBC Future Media Technology, Research and Innovation BC5C3, Broadcast Centre, Media Village, W12 7TP T:020 8008 3959(02 83959) M:07711 913241(072 83959) - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk http://backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ -- Please email me back if you need any more help. Brian Butterworth www.ukfree.tv http://www.ukfree.tv
Re: [backstage] BBC iPlayer Protest tommorow, Tuesday 14th, 10:30AM, White City
Thanks. I thought I was being humorous - it would be deeply ironic if pictures of a protest outside Auntie's TV HQ about DRM were copyrighted... On 14/08/07, Matthew Cashmore [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mr Butterworth :-) As you'll see from the flickr streams themselves.. All our photos are released under Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike 2.0 Knock yourself out within that licence. m On 14/8/07 14:50, Brian Butterworth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Can I use one of these photos on my site? Are the CC licenced? On 14/08/07, *Matthew Cashmore* [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Photos already up on flickr over here http://www.flickr.com/photos/mattcashmore/sets/72157601436583881/ And here http://www.flickr.com/photos/cubicgarden/sets/72157601430492360/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/cubicgarden/sets/72157601430492360/http://www.flickr.com/photos/cubicgarden/sets/72157601430492360/ m On 14/8/07 13:07, David Greaves [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ian Forrester wrote: Yep we were there along with about another 20 people. So were they making a point or trying to make a difference? David - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk http://backstage.bbc.co.ukhttp://backstage.bbc.co.uk/ discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ ___ Matthew Cashmore Development Producer BBC Future Media Technology, Research and Innovation BC5C3, Broadcast Centre, Media Village, W12 7TP T:020 8008 3959(02 83959) M:07711 913241(072 83959) - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk http://backstage.bbc.co.ukhttp://backstage.bbc.co.uk/ discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ ___ *Matthew Cashmore *Development Producer * **BBC Future Media Technology, Research and Innovation *BC5C3, Broadcast Centre, Media Village, W12 7TP *T:*020 8008 3959(02 83959) *M:*07711 913241(072 83959) -- Please email me back if you need any more help. Brian Butterworth www.ukfree.tv
Re: [backstage] BBC iPlayer Protest tommorow, Tuesday 14th, 10:30AM, White City
Brian Butterworth wrote: Thanks. I thought I was being humorous - it would be deeply ironic if pictures of a protest outside Auntie's TV HQ about DRM were copyrighted... They are copyrighted. They are also licensed. Anti-DRM isn't anti-copyright. Most anti-DRM sentiment opposes the: You may only watch this film/production: * once (if you fell asleep - tough! Powercut - tough!) * if you don't skip the commercials * using the original non-1-7yr-old proof disc * on a hi-res screen *if* it's made by Acme * with people who are immediate members of your family (but no more than 3 at once) * at a time we the licensees decide * on the original PC you had 4 years ago when you bought the disc * for as long as we're in business (Google Video anyone? http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/6944292.stm) Sigh. David - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] BBC iPlayer Protest tommorow, Tuesday 14th, 10:30AM, White City
David, Yeah, I know. Which is also ironic... On 14/08/07, David Greaves [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Brian Butterworth wrote: Thanks. I thought I was being humorous - it would be deeply ironic if pictures of a protest outside Auntie's TV HQ about DRM were copyrighted... They are copyrighted. They are also licensed. Anti-DRM isn't anti-copyright. Most anti-DRM sentiment opposes the: You may only watch this film/production: * once (if you fell asleep - tough! Powercut - tough!) * if you don't skip the commercials * using the original non-1-7yr-old proof disc * on a hi-res screen *if* it's made by Acme * with people who are immediate members of your family (but no more than 3 at once) * at a time we the licensees decide * on the original PC you had 4 years ago when you bought the disc * for as long as we're in business (Google Video anyone? http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/6944292.stm) Sigh. David - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ -- Please email me back if you need any more help. Brian Butterworth www.ukfree.tv
Re: [backstage] BBC iPlayer Protest tommorow, Tuesday 14th, 10:30AM, White City
On 14/08/07, David Greaves [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ian Forrester wrote: Yep we were there along with about another 20 people. So were they making a point or trying to make a difference? I believe the additional media coverage of the unconscionable restrictions in the iPlayer will make a difference. -- Regards, Dave - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] BBC iPlayer Protest tommorow, Tuesday 14th, 10:30AM, White City
On 13/08/07, Matthew Cashmore [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And we'll be out there - backstage tshirts on hand, and doing some interviews. Cool! :-) But why is it happening outside TVC? I'm sure it's already been said elsewhere but... FMT are in the Broadcast Centre, 1/2 mile up the road? I guess its not as chic a venue ;-) Watch out for 411 scammers by the way, I hear they are calling people up and stuff -- Regards, Dave - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] BBC iPlayer Protest tommorow, Tuesday 14th, 10:30AM, White City
Because it is only intended to make a point, not make a difference. On 13/08/07, Matthew Cashmore [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And we'll be out there - backstage tshirts on hand, and doing some interviews. But why is it happening outside TVC? I'm sure it's already been said elsewhere but... FMT are in the Broadcast Centre, 1/2 mile up the road? m On 13/8/07 14:33, Dave Crossland [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Folks, Not seen mention of it in her yet, so those those interested in the on-going iPlayer controversy, the Free Software Foundation's Defective By Design campaign is holding a protest outside the BBC Television Center in White City tomorrow at 10:30AM. Read all about it at http://www.defectivebydesign.org/iPlayerProtest And there's also Ian Forrester's http://geekdinner.co.uk/ in the evening with Eric Meyer, with a dinner event instead of just hanging out at the bar. ___ Matthew Cashmore Development Producer BBC Future Media Technology, Research and Innovation BC5C3, Broadcast Centre, Media Village, W12 7TP T:020 8008 3959(02 83959) M:07711 913241(072 83959) - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ -- Peter Bowyer Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] BBC iPlayer Protest tommorow, Tuesday 14th, 10:30AM, White City
On 13/8/07 14:55, Peter Bowyer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Because it is only intended to make a point, not make a difference. Cool Perhaps someone would like to post to the list why this protest is happening, what it's aims are (if any) and what are the points that the group would like to get across are? We'll be out there with the protesters interviewing and making sure that your point of view is heard. m - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] BBC iPlayer Protest tommorow, Tuesday 14th, 10:30AM, White City
I'm wondering if the police will be able to continue protecting us from terrorwrists if they have to police an iPlayer DRM demo? On 13/08/07, Richard Lockwood [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: To my cynical mind, this translates as there isn't going to be a noticeable number of people there. Cheers, Rich. On 8/13/07, Peter Bowyer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Because it is only intended to make a point, not make a difference. On 13/08/07, Matthew Cashmore [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And we'll be out there - backstage tshirts on hand, and doing some interviews. But why is it happening outside TVC? I'm sure it's already been said elsewhere but... FMT are in the Broadcast Centre, 1/2 mile up the road? m On 13/8/07 14:33, Dave Crossland [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Folks, Not seen mention of it in her yet, so those those interested in the on-going iPlayer controversy, the Free Software Foundation's Defective By Design campaign is holding a protest outside the BBC Television Center in White City tomorrow at 10:30AM. Read all about it at http://www.defectivebydesign.org/iPlayerProtest And there's also Ian Forrester's http://geekdinner.co.uk/ in the evening with Eric Meyer, with a dinner event instead of just hanging out at the bar. ___ Matthew Cashmore Development Producer BBC Future Media Technology, Research and Innovation BC5C3, Broadcast Centre, Media Village, W12 7TP T:020 8008 3959(02 83959) M:07711 913241(072 83959) - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ -- Peter Bowyer Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ -- SilverDisc Ltd is registered in England no. 2798073 Registered address: 4 Swallow Court, Kettering, Northamptonshire, NN15 6XX - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ -- Please email me back if you need any more help. Brian Butterworth www.ukfree.tv
Re: [backstage] BBC iPlayer Protest tommorow, Tuesday 14th, 10:30AM, White City
On 13/08/07, Brian Butterworth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm wondering if the police will be able to continue protecting us from terrorwrists if they have to police an iPlayer DRM demo? Yeah dude, its going to turn violent, for sure. lol -- Regards, Dave - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] BBC iPlayer Protest tommorow, Tuesday 14th, 10:30AM, White City
On 13/08/07, Matthew Cashmore [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Cool Perhaps someone would like to post to the list why this protest is happening, what it's aims are (if any) and what are the points that the group would like to get across are? You could try the groups website(s). Defective By Designs website is: http://defectivebydesign.org/ A quick bit of background to provide you with some context (provide corrections anyone if this is incorrect): DBD is a project run by the Free Software Foundation (FSF). DBD's main purpose is the abolition of DRM (Digital Rights Management, or Digital Restriction Management, depending on your view). The FSF is the main sponsor of the Gnu Project, I project that aims to provide a completely free Operating System. Not just free in that you don't have to pay for it but free in that you can do much more with it than other software. For instance you could read the source code (technical term meaning the stuff the software developers/programmers actually type, instead of the code that the machine executes which is normally transformed by a special program, not always though). Currently they provide many tools that are then bundled with the Linux kernel (the kernel is the core of an OS, it does much of the low level stuff that you don't really see but you are glad is there). Needless to say they are likely unhappy at the BBC's actions which could cripple UK Linux adoption. It could also pose significant harm to other OS vendors, such as Apple (of MacOS fame), and the people behind the different versions of BSD. You might find: http://defectivebydesign.org/iPlayerProtest and http://defectivebydesign.org/blog/BBCcorrupted useful to understand why there are protests. FreeTheBBC ( http://www.freethebbc.info/ ) is a project from Binary Freedom Boston, please don't ask why someone from Boston is behind FreeTheBBC, I don't know (and I did ask once). Of course a quick reading of the BBC's charter states clearly that one should not take the term UK license fee payer literally. As I don't know much about Binary Freedoms background I will quote part of their site: 1. Rid BBC content and programming of harmful DRM 2. Make BBC content and programming available in free formats from: http://www.freethebbc.info/node/7 I think the main aims are: - Opening up access to _all_ Operating Systems, not the select few (currently one). As far as I can tell their appears to be no plans for an all OS solution, only a select few, but more than one solution*. - Use of openly specified protocols and formats (of which there are way too may to list, but the BBC knows this already, it's a member of the consortium that writes some of them!!! (BBC is listed as a member of W3C, source: http://www.w3.org/Consortium/Member/List )). - Removal of DRM. Of course you would need to ask the individuals involved what their personal reasoning is. I shall not be there tomorrow, it clashes with a more important event work. I may check news sites during my lunch though, now where does one find an impartial reporter on this matter? _Andy * this is only as far as I can tell, official sources regarding all OS would be welcomed. And in the spirit of the BBC: I am not responsible for the content of external sites, Other websites are available. -- Computers are like air conditioners. Both stop working, if you open windows. -- Adam Heath - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
