Re: [BackupPC-users] Why not use Backuppc to backup server systems?
On Thu, Aug 10, 2023 at 9:52 AM G.W. Haywood via BackupPC-users wrote: > >> > ... bootable image ... integrate that into backuppc ... > > My head hurts. :) > Saving headaches would be the point... If you've ever had to re-create a one-off custom filesystem layout and get enough stuff installed to start restoring from backuppc you'll know that it can be fairly complicated and time consuming. For older systems it may even be hard to find a matching install image with the right filestem tools. What ReaR does is use your current running distribution's installed tools to create a bootable image (as a file) containing the programs and script needed to reproduce that filesystem layout, chroot into it, and start a restore using one of several methods. It gives several opportunities to make layout changes or drop to a shell if you don't want an exact copy, but reproducing the original on new hardware (real or virtual) is mostly the point. I'm retired now and it has been a while since I used it, but I found it very handy for things like moving old/custom systems from real to virtual hardware or raid sets to normal drives, and in the process noticed that it did pretty much everything that backuppc does not do in the restore process, and that all it would take to make the perfect system would be for backuppc to manage those boot image files along with the rest of a backup and for Rear's restore script to be compatible with backuppc, either doing a tar restore from backuppc's archive output or starting sshd to wait for backuppc to initiate the restore.But, as you can imagine, there is a lot of variation in what ReaR has to do across Linux distributions and versions for the different filesystems, LVM, and raid approaches and to make the final result bootable so I've never considered touching it myself. ___ BackupPC-users mailing list BackupPC-users@lists.sourceforge.net List:https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/backuppc-users Wiki:https://github.com/backuppc/backuppc/wiki Project: https://backuppc.github.io/backuppc/
Re: [BackupPC-users] Why not use Backuppc to backup server systems?
Hi there, On Thu, 10 Aug 2023, Les Mikesell wrote: On Wed, Aug 9, 2023 at 8:42?AM W?chtler, Jan wrote: ... Is there any reason why this list does not include Server systems? I am using it for years now to backup (web/application/database)-server data and configuration, is there any reason why I should not do so? Databases can be a problem ... Most of our application of BackupPC is for what you could describe as "user data". Mainly things in home directories. But I tend to back up /etc/ on everything with BackupPC, sometimes also /usr/local/etc/ and occasionally the odd subdirectory in /var/. People sometimes do some pretty strange things in /opt/. The historical information for files available from BackupPC can prove useful for almost anything. For database *data* I don't let BackupPC get involved. The snapshot utility for the database creates a file, and that file is transferred by rsync, all from a crontab entry, to remote storage. The file won't benefit from BackupPC's deduplication, and nobody wants an old copy of a busy database so BackupPC's aged versions are no use either. For similar reasons, mail server data likely won't benefit much from the BackupPC approach. Web servers might - much will depend on the design and application. Name servers will range from our tiny setups with just a few domains to ISP setups with many millions, so each is going to need to be studied as a special case, as I guess will most other servers. We have a virus scanning server; we don't back it up, since everything on it is downloaded from somewhere else. Of all our servers it's probably the one most at risk. If it gets compromised (it never has been) it would just be wiped and reinstalled. ... bootable image ... integrate that into backuppc ... My head hurts. :) -- 73, Ged. ___ BackupPC-users mailing list BackupPC-users@lists.sourceforge.net List:https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/backuppc-users Wiki:https://github.com/backuppc/backuppc/wiki Project: https://backuppc.github.io/backuppc/
Re: [BackupPC-users] Why not use Backuppc to backup server systems?
On Wed, Aug 09, 2023 at 05:27:57PM -0700, Kenneth Porter wrote: > On 8/9/2023 9:41 AM, to...@tuxteam.de wrote: > > With the right DBMS and a little bit of setup, rsync is a perfectly fine > > way of backing up your databases [1]. Even with the wrong DBMS, all it > > takes is an SQL dump and backing up that (might be expensive with a > > couple o' 100M records, though). > > Subversion (a version control system) is really a DBMS and has its own dump > facility for backups. Each "record" is a version control generation. Now I'm > wondering what the equivalent is for git, which has largely supplanted > Subversion. In git, every repo is a bunch of files. Always consistent at rest (meaning: when the running operation finishes, things are in the file system). Besides, it is very rsync-friendly, since things in .git/objects never change name. Cheers -- t signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ BackupPC-users mailing list BackupPC-users@lists.sourceforge.net List:https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/backuppc-users Wiki:https://github.com/backuppc/backuppc/wiki Project: https://backuppc.github.io/backuppc/
Re: [BackupPC-users] Why not use Backuppc to backup server systems?
When backing up the backup server, either mount /etc/BackupPC from the backup media (and back that up to another place) or keep a tarball with the latest settings, so you can easily load the media on another server to recreate the backup server. ___ BackupPC-users mailing list BackupPC-users@lists.sourceforge.net List:https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/backuppc-users Wiki:https://github.com/backuppc/backuppc/wiki Project: https://backuppc.github.io/backuppc/
Re: [BackupPC-users] Why not use Backuppc to backup server systems?
On 8/9/2023 9:41 AM, to...@tuxteam.de wrote: With the right DBMS and a little bit of setup, rsync is a perfectly fine way of backing up your databases [1]. Even with the wrong DBMS, all it takes is an SQL dump and backing up that (might be expensive with a couple o' 100M records, though). Subversion (a version control system) is really a DBMS and has its own dump facility for backups. Each "record" is a version control generation. Now I'm wondering what the equivalent is for git, which has largely supplanted Subversion. ___ BackupPC-users mailing list BackupPC-users@lists.sourceforge.net List:https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/backuppc-users Wiki:https://github.com/backuppc/backuppc/wiki Project: https://backuppc.github.io/backuppc/
Re: [BackupPC-users] Why not use Backuppc to backup server systems?
On Wed, Aug 09, 2023 at 10:19:09AM -0500, Les Mikesell wrote: [...] > Databases can be a problem because they update all the time so you may not > get a consistent snapshot unless you use the tool specific to the database > to perform a consistent dump to a file, then let backuppc back that up. [...] With the right DBMS and a little bit of setup, rsync is a perfectly fine way of backing up your databases [1]. Even with the wrong DBMS, all it takes is an SQL dump and backing up that (might be expensive with a couple o' 100M records, though). Cheers [1] https://www.postgresql.org/docs/current/continuous-archiving.html -- t signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ BackupPC-users mailing list BackupPC-users@lists.sourceforge.net List:https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/backuppc-users Wiki:https://github.com/backuppc/backuppc/wiki Project: https://backuppc.github.io/backuppc/
Re: [BackupPC-users] Why not use Backuppc to backup server systems?
On Wed, Aug 9, 2023 at 10:41 AM Marki wrote: > > Those limitations exist with every other file-based backup solution. > Of course you should test a recovery from time to time ;) There is an interesting Linux program called ReaR (Relax and Recover) that generates a bootable image and script to reinstall to bare metal from a few different types of backups. I always thought that it would be relatively simple to integrate that into backuppc so the bootable image was a file included in the backup so you would only need to make the USB or iso after you knew you needed it, and the reinstall script would pull the backup from backuppc. But there is a little too much black magic dealing with differences in Linux versions for me to trust that it would work if I tried to change it. -- Les Mikesell lesmikes...@gmail.com ___ BackupPC-users mailing list BackupPC-users@lists.sourceforge.net List:https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/backuppc-users Wiki:https://github.com/backuppc/backuppc/wiki Project: https://backuppc.github.io/backuppc/
Re: [BackupPC-users] Why not use Backuppc to backup server systems?
Those limitations exist with every other file-based backup solution. Of course you should test a recovery from time to time ;) On August 9, 2023 5:19:09 PM GMT+02:00, Les Mikesell wrote: >On Wed, Aug 9, 2023 at 8:42 AM Wächtler, Jan >wrote: > >> The Overview description of backuppc states that it is a >> >> “ .. system for backing up Unix, Linux, WinXX, and MacOSX PCs, desktops >> and laptops …” >> >> >> >> Is there any reason why this list does not include Server systems? >> >> I am using it for years now to backup (web/application/database)-server >> data and configuration, is there any reason why I should not do so? >> >> >> >Databases can be a problem because they update all the time so you may not >get a consistent snapshot unless you use the tool specific to the database >to perform a consistent dump to a file, then let backuppc back that up. >Similarly with active windows machines you may need to use tricks to make a >shadow filesystem copy to get files that would be locked. Other than that, >the only issue is that it won't do a bare metal restore, so you have to be >prepared to do an OS and app install or use another approach to get to a >point where backuppc can put the files back. If instead, you just want to >grab an old copy of a file or directory lost or corrupted by mistake, >backuppc is better than most at that. Of course in a production system >you should really have a formal version control system and deployment >process to fix that sort of thing. > >-- > Les Mikesell >lesmikes...@gmail.com ___ BackupPC-users mailing list BackupPC-users@lists.sourceforge.net List:https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/backuppc-users Wiki:https://github.com/backuppc/backuppc/wiki Project: https://backuppc.github.io/backuppc/
Re: [BackupPC-users] Why not use Backuppc to backup server systems?
On Wed, Aug 9, 2023 at 8:42 AM Wächtler, Jan wrote: > The Overview description of backuppc states that it is a > > “ .. system for backing up Unix, Linux, WinXX, and MacOSX PCs, desktops > and laptops …” > > > > Is there any reason why this list does not include Server systems? > > I am using it for years now to backup (web/application/database)-server > data and configuration, is there any reason why I should not do so? > > > Databases can be a problem because they update all the time so you may not get a consistent snapshot unless you use the tool specific to the database to perform a consistent dump to a file, then let backuppc back that up. Similarly with active windows machines you may need to use tricks to make a shadow filesystem copy to get files that would be locked. Other than that, the only issue is that it won't do a bare metal restore, so you have to be prepared to do an OS and app install or use another approach to get to a point where backuppc can put the files back. If instead, you just want to grab an old copy of a file or directory lost or corrupted by mistake, backuppc is better than most at that. Of course in a production system you should really have a formal version control system and deployment process to fix that sort of thing. -- Les Mikesell lesmikes...@gmail.com ___ BackupPC-users mailing list BackupPC-users@lists.sourceforge.net List:https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/backuppc-users Wiki:https://github.com/backuppc/backuppc/wiki Project: https://backuppc.github.io/backuppc/
Re: [BackupPC-users] Why not use Backuppc to backup server systems?
Yep and we're even using the archiving feature to put it onto tape On 8/9/2023 3:48 PM, Niels Kristian Jensen via BackupPC-users wrote: I've been using it for servers as well for many years. rsync via ssh Seems good for the purpose. BR. Niels Kristian On 2023-08-09 15:24, Wächtler wrote: The Overview description of backuppc states that it is a “ .. system for backing up Unix, Linux, WinXX, and MacOSX PCs, desktops and laptops …” Is there any reason why this list does not include Server systems? I am using it for years now to backup (web/application/database)-server data and configuration, is there any reason why I should not do so? ___ BackupPC-users mailing list BackupPC-users@lists.sourceforge.net List:https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/backuppc-users Wiki:https://github.com/backuppc/backuppc/wiki Project: https://backuppc.github.io/backuppc/
Re: [BackupPC-users] Why not use Backuppc to backup server systems?
I've been using it for servers as well for many years. rsync via ssh Seems good for the purpose. BR. Niels Kristian On 2023-08-09 15:24, Wächtler wrote: > The Overview description of backuppc states that it is a > > " .. system for backing up Unix, Linux, WinXX, and MacOSX PCs, desktops and > laptops …" > > Is there any reason why this list does not include Server systems? > > I am using it for years now to backup (web/application/database)-server data > and configuration, is there any reason why I should not do so? > > Jan Wächtler * Senior Consultant > O +49 (89) 1894743-32 > > amasol GmbH > Claudius-Keller-Straße 3 B * 81669 * München * Deutschland > Geschäftsführung: Stefan Deml, Thomas Dirsch, Frank Jahn > Amtsgericht München HRB 282168, Sitz der Gesellschaft München > > ___ > BackupPC-users mailing list > BackupPC-users@lists.sourceforge.net > List:https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/backuppc-users > Wiki:https://github.com/backuppc/backuppc/wiki > Project: https://backuppc.github.io/backuppc/ -- Spejd er sejt! Det Danske Spejderkorps --___ BackupPC-users mailing list BackupPC-users@lists.sourceforge.net List:https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/backuppc-users Wiki:https://github.com/backuppc/backuppc/wiki Project: https://backuppc.github.io/backuppc/
[BackupPC-users] Why not use Backuppc to backup server systems?
The Overview description of backuppc states that it is a " .. system for backing up Unix, Linux, WinXX, and MacOSX PCs, desktops and laptops ..." Is there any reason why this list does not include Server systems? I am using it for years now to backup (web/application/database)-server data and configuration, is there any reason why I should not do so? [cid:image001.png@01D9CABA.C3B3F960] [cid:image002.png@01D9CABA.C3B3F960] [cid:image003.png@01D9CABA.C3B3F960] [cid:image004.png@01D9CABA.C3B3F960] -- Jan Wächtler • Senior Consultant O +49 (89) 1894743-32 amasol GmbH Claudius-Keller-Straße 3 B • 81669 • München • Deutschland Geschäftsführung: Stefan Deml, Thomas Dirsch, Frank Jahn Amtsgericht München HRB 282168, Sitz der Gesellschaft München ___ BackupPC-users mailing list BackupPC-users@lists.sourceforge.net List:https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/backuppc-users Wiki:https://github.com/backuppc/backuppc/wiki Project: https://backuppc.github.io/backuppc/
