[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Galant definition
I believe the standard work to be: http://openlibrary.org/works/OL7827880W/German_galant_lute_music_in_the_18th_century haven't read it myself unfortunately... G. - Original Message - From: theoj89...@aol.com To: baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Friday, October 22, 2010 3:23 PM Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Galant definition Could anyone help me understand the definition of 'Galant' music? Does it refer only to lute music, or to the period/style. What are its characteristics - if they can be summed up? Which composers would be considered most typical of Galant style? Thanks for helping a enthusiastic beginner further appreciate such a great literature. trj -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.862 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3211 - Release Date: 10/21/10 20:34:00
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: music by Count Bergen
I have a feeling that there may be a general lack of knowledge about his oeuvre. Perhaps if you could strum a few bars for us, it may spark a recognition. Otherwise, It may be up to you to unearth these treasures. Bergen, (Pergen) Ferdinand Graf von, Three lute suites in French tablature are preserved in the Vienna National Library, Ms. Suppl. Mus. 1078, ca 1740. Some of these lute pieces are also found in Ebenthal, Grafen Go`ss'sche Primogenitur-Fideikommiss-Bibliothek, ca. 1730-40, and in G=9Attweig, Benediktinerstiftsbibliothek, Musikarchiv, ca. 1740. ( Eitner QL II, p. 72; Pohlmann 1982, p. 38; Zuth, op. cit., p. 42.) I stole this info from a note by Per Kjetil Farstad from three years ago. Lets get Alberto Crugnola to do it. He'll record anything! Dale - Original Message - From: Grzegorz Joachimiak gjoachim...@wp.pl To: baroque Lutelist baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Friday, October 22, 2010 8:48 AM Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] music by Count Bergen Dear friends, maybe I expressed not precisly. I would like to ask you about any audio recordings with music by Johann Ferdinand Wilhelm Graf von Bergen? Do you know any CD's with his music? Maybe somebody is going to record new CD with this music? Grzegorz To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.862 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3211 - Release Date: 10/21/10 14:34:00
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: music by Count Bergen
If you install Django demo, you can get and listen to them from here: http://jdf.luth.pagesperso-orange.fr/Musiques/Les_compositeurs/Autres_compositeurs/Comte_Bergen.htm G. - Original Message - From: Dale Young dyoung5...@wowway.com To: baroque Lutelist baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu; Grzegorz Joachimiak gjoachim...@wp.pl Sent: Friday, October 22, 2010 3:40 PM Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: music by Count Bergen I have a feeling that there may be a general lack of knowledge about his oeuvre. Perhaps if you could strum a few bars for us, it may spark a recognition. Otherwise, It may be up to you to unearth these treasures. Bergen, (Pergen) Ferdinand Graf von, Three lute suites in French tablature are preserved in the Vienna National Library, Ms. Suppl. Mus. 1078, ca 1740. Some of these lute pieces are also found in Ebenthal, Grafen Go`ss'sche Primogenitur-Fideikommiss-Bibliothek, ca. 1730-40, and in G=9Attweig, Benediktinerstiftsbibliothek, Musikarchiv, ca. 1740. ( Eitner QL II, p. 72; Pohlmann 1982, p. 38; Zuth, op. cit., p. 42.) I stole this info from a note by Per Kjetil Farstad from three years ago. Lets get Alberto Crugnola to do it. He'll record anything! Dale - Original Message - From: Grzegorz Joachimiak gjoachim...@wp.pl To: baroque Lutelist baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Friday, October 22, 2010 8:48 AM Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] music by Count Bergen Dear friends, maybe I expressed not precisly. I would like to ask you about any audio recordings with music by Johann Ferdinand Wilhelm Graf von Bergen? Do you know any CD's with his music? Maybe somebody is going to record new CD with this music? Grzegorz To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: music by Count Bergen
I know that the question is about recordings, but as far as tablature is concerned Bergen, (Pergen) Ferdinand Graf von, Three lute suites in French tablature are preserved in the Vienna National Library, Ms. Suppl. Mus. 1078, ca 1740. you'll find that one here http://jdf.luth.pagesperso-orange.fr/Musiques/Les_manuscrits/Vienne/Les_manuscrits_de_Vienne.htm#Volume_3 Some of these lute pieces are also found in Ebenthal, Grafen Go`ss'sche Primogenitur-Fideikommiss-Bibliothek, ca. 1730-40, and in G=9Attweig, Benediktinerstiftsbibliothek, Musikarchiv, ca. 1740. there is more: http://mss.slweiss.de/index.php?lang=deuid=2type=mssmss=nam=key=msnam=comp=Bergen best regards Bernd To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Galant definition
Pls. correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Gallant also imply mood related to keys, i.e. direct influence on the listeners mood with the music, like f. ex. indian music claims to do? (The correct term eludes me, I really should read Farstads book! :) G. - Original Message - From: Christopher Wilke chriswi...@yahoo.com To: baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu; G. Crona kalei...@gmail.com Sent: Friday, October 22, 2010 4:16 PM Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Galant definition Farstad's book is the best source for this music in reference to the lute. It includes exhaustive lists of composers, pieces and sources. More generally, there is Gjerdingen's book: http://www.amazon.com/Music-Galant-Style-Robert-Gjerdingen/dp/0195313712 I've read this book, but it is not particularly clarifying in terms of defining what gallant actually is. He describes a lot of processes, but there is little feeling that they add up in the end to a style. This is still a grey area. I don't particularly like gallant as a musical term because it is so general. In contemporary usage, it clearly had more to do with one's general habits and lifestyle than musical characteristics. Thus, Baron calls Weiss the best, most gallant composer. I think most of us would agree that Hagen is also a gallant composer. Would we really say Weiss and Hagen are writing in the same style? Would we even say that Straube's two lute sonatas and his English guittar pieces are in the same style? There is a real mixture of approaches going on from around c.1740's (and earlier) up to the classical period: high, contrapuntal baroque a la Papa Bach, a sort of easy baroque a la Scarlatti, a more overtly operatic form a la Hasse, and empfindsamer stil a la C.P.E Bach. All of these things were claimed to be gallant and one finds all of these styles happening simultaneously. I suspect that when people say gallant nowadays, they really mean the Hasse incarnation, with a florid, vocal-like line over an accompaniment that is of secondary importance, usually comprised of slow-moving harmonies and stock figurations. Lot's of triplets and Lombard rhythms! This is a tough nut to crack which has gotten too little scholarly attention. I think more people are becoming interesting in the era, but there is still a lot to be done. Chris Christopher Wilke Lutenist, Guitarist and Composer www.christopherwilke.com --- On Fri, 10/22/10, G. Crona kalei...@gmail.com wrote: From: G. Crona kalei...@gmail.com Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Galant definition To: baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Date: Friday, October 22, 2010, 9:31 AM I believe the standard work to be: http://openlibrary.org/works/OL7827880W/German_galant_lute_music_in_the_18th_century haven't read it myself unfortunately... G. - Original Message - From: theoj89...@aol.com To: baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Friday, October 22, 2010 3:23 PM Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Galant definition Could anyone help me understand the definition of 'Galant' music? Does it refer only to lute music, or to the period/style. What are its characteristics - if they can be summed up? Which composers would be considered most typical of Galant style? Thanks for helping a enthusiastic beginner further appreciate such a great literature. trj To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Odp: Re: music by Count Bergen
Thanks for reply and many informations. So we don't have yet audio recordings with music by Bergen (Pergen). Did someone see Austrian lute manuscripts? Are there autograps of Bergen in Vienna, Ebenthal and Goettweig manuscripts or copies? G. Dnia 22-10-2010 o godz. 16:04 Bernd Haegemann napisał(a): I know that the question is about recordings, but as far as tablature is concerned Bergen, (Pergen) Ferdinand Graf von, Three lute suites in French tablature are preserved in the Vienna National Library, Ms. Suppl. Mus. 1078, ca 1740. you'll find that one here http://jdf.luth.pagesperso-orange.fr/Musiques/Les_manuscrits/Vienne/Les_manuscrits_de_Vienne.htm#Volume_3 Some of these lute pieces are also found in Ebenthal, Grafen Go`ss'sche Primogenitur-Fideikommiss-Bibliothek, ca. 1730-40, and in G=9Attweig, Benediktinerstiftsbibliothek, Musikarchiv, ca. 1740. there is more: http://mss.slweiss.de/index.php?lang=deuid=2type=mssmss=nam=key=msnam=comp=Bergen best regards Bernd To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Galant definition
Here, Let me try. Galant is the term people who lived in the period from roughly 1720 on to 1790 ( Telemann through Mozart) used to describe certain traits, attitudes, and manners, associated with the cultured nobility, according to Robert O. Gjerdingen in his book, Music in the Galant Style. They did not call their music Pre-classical,or post baroque, or modern. But they did refer to a galant style that was, in short, attempting to please the cultured, knowledgeable listener with wit, charm, and inventiveness within a somewhat mannered framework that was merely an accepted list of chord progressions passed down to composition students through their teachers,etc. Now remember, this is the period when the courts were losing their stranglehold on society with the rise of a merchant class and thus their influence on musical tastes and tennants. So there are varying modes of this style. And it crosses a couple generations and incorporates many geographical influences. And...the five kinds of music...Church, Court, Theater, Peasant (folk), and French (that's a whole different story) Music. Mix 'em all up, a little from this, a little from that, and you get galant. (except french, it's pre-mixed) Lute composers who were writing in the galant style were Falckenhagen, Hagen, Kropffganss, Durant, Martino, Daube, Straube, Baron, old Weiss wrote some pieces that would fall into that categogy too. More later Dale - Original Message - From: theoj89...@aol.com To: baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Friday, October 22, 2010 9:23 AM Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Galant definition Could anyone help me understand the definition of 'Galant' music? Does it refer only to lute music, or to the period/style. What are its characteristics - if they can be summed up? Which composers would be considered most typical of Galant style? Thanks for helping a enthusiastic beginner further appreciate such a great literature. trj -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.862 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3212 - Release Date: 10/22/10 02:34:00
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Losy is great...
Hi b-gang, Losy was an intelligent composer - less is more seems to have been his case? A very simple Menuet in ms. Wittgenstein f.11r is - at least to me - a clear proof of his wits. 50 years later some wannabe-Beethoven could have made his 20-30 minutes symphony out of Losy's less than 2 minutes Menuet's musical material! My try of Losy's version is in http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VxzaoGin76U and also http://vimeo.com/16095994 Arto To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Losy is great...
Arto! In support of your sublime offering of a Menuet by Losy, I offer one by Adam Falckenhagen to emphasise that less can be more. When I play this well, not quite this time, it is just the most sentimental, button-pushing piece of music, brings a tear to the eye. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yk34FVUpIJI Thanks Dale - Original Message - From: wikla wi...@cs.helsinki.fi To: baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Friday, October 22, 2010 5:09 PM Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Losy is great... Hi b-gang, Losy was an intelligent composer - less is more seems to have been his case? A very simple Menuet in ms. Wittgenstein f.11r is - at least to me - a clear proof of his wits. 50 years later some wannabe-Beethoven could have made his 20-30 minutes symphony out of Losy's less than 2 minutes Menuet's musical material! My try of Losy's version is in http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VxzaoGin76U and also http://vimeo.com/16095994 Arto To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.862 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3212 - Release Date: 10/22/10 02:34:00
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Galant definition
Are you speaking of Affekt? Mattheson goes into great detail about the moods associated with each key, but I don't believe that this is really more a part of the baroque aesthetic and not typical of the gallant style. There is the famous story about how Baron was made to look foolish for believing in the then somewhat unfashionable (and un-gallant) idea of music's power to excite the passions directly. Chris Christopher Wilke Lutenist, Guitarist and Composer www.christopherwilke.com --- On Fri, 10/22/10, G. Crona kalei...@gmail.com wrote: From: G. Crona kalei...@gmail.com Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Galant definition To: baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Date: Friday, October 22, 2010, 10:27 AM Pls. correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Gallant also imply mood related to keys, i.e. direct influence on the listeners mood with the music, like f. ex. indian music claims to do? (The correct term eludes me, I really should read Farstads book! :) G. - Original Message - From: Christopher Wilke chriswi...@yahoo.com To: baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu; G. Crona kalei...@gmail.com Sent: Friday, October 22, 2010 4:16 PM Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Galant definition Farstad's book is the best source for this music in reference to the lute. It includes exhaustive lists of composers, pieces and sources. More generally, there is Gjerdingen's book: http://www.amazon.com/Music-Galant-Style-Robert-Gjerdingen/dp/0195313712 I've read this book, but it is not particularly clarifying in terms of defining what gallant actually is. He describes a lot of processes, but there is little feeling that they add up in the end to a style. This is still a grey area. I don't particularly like gallant as a musical term because it is so general. In contemporary usage, it clearly had more to do with one's general habits and lifestyle than musical characteristics. Thus, Baron calls Weiss the best, most gallant composer. I think most of us would agree that Hagen is also a gallant composer. Would we really say Weiss and Hagen are writing in the same style? Would we even say that Straube's two lute sonatas and his English guittar pieces are in the same style? There is a real mixture of approaches going on from around c.1740's (and earlier) up to the classical period: high, contrapuntal baroque a la Papa Bach, a sort of easy baroque a la Scarlatti, a more overtly operatic form a la Hasse, and empfindsamer stil a la C.P.E Bach. All of these things were claimed to be gallant and one finds all of these styles happening simultaneously. I suspect that when people say gallant nowadays, they really mean the Hasse incarnation, with a florid, vocal-like line over an accompaniment that is of secondary importance, usually comprised of slow-moving harmonies and stock figurations. Lot's of triplets and Lombard rhythms! This is a tough nut to crack which has gotten too little scholarly attention. I think more people are becoming interesting in the era, but there is still a lot to be done. Chris Christopher Wilke Lutenist, Guitarist and Composer www.christopherwilke.com --- On Fri, 10/22/10, G. Crona kalei...@gmail.com wrote: From: G. Crona kalei...@gmail.com Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Galant definition To: baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Date: Friday, October 22, 2010, 9:31 AM I believe the standard work to be: http://openlibrary.org/works/OL7827880W/German_galant_lute_music_in_the_18th_century haven't read it myself unfortunately... G. - Original Message - From: theoj89...@aol.com To: baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Friday, October 22, 2010 3:23 PM Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Galant definition Could anyone help me understand the definition of 'Galant' music? Does it refer only to lute music, or to the period/style. What are its characteristics - if they can be summed up? Which composers would be considered most typical of Galant style? Thanks for helping a enthusiastic beginner further appreciate such a great literature. trj To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
