[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: The earliest d-minor tuning? (fwd)
Roland Hayes rha...@legalaidbuffalo.org schrieb: The list has 50 or so not 100, and it is not easy to find off of the LSA website. Also, there is a suite of tombeau for Lenclos in Rhetorique des Dieux in d minor, and if I recall correctly we only have viel ton pieces by Lenclos! r In his talk on French 17th century lute music (Lute News # 85, April 2008, p. 8 seqq), Anthony Bailes pointed out two features of Mesangeau's style that can be found in Michelangolo Galilei's music (print 1620, Munich) as well: the off-beat bass notes, and the arpeggiated style, both of which seem at odds with German and Italian music of the time (p. 10). That should be criteria, too, in distinguishing Jacques' from Ennemond's music, considering that Jacques left France and entered Brit ain in 1617. In case you stumble upon music ascribed to Gaultier that matches these characteristics, pls let us know. Mathias Roland Hayes rha...@legalaidbuffalo.org schrieb: The LSA list has more than 100 pieces if I recall, from many sources. Some are very likely Jaques Gaultier, but others not. It is a great big interesting swamp. Some of the pieces are really good and challenging in Viel ton like the mesangeau piece in Novus Partus - a really new way of approaching the instrument. These would be my candidates for pieces by Ennemonde.r To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: The earliest d-minor tuning?
Roland Hayes rha...@legalaidbuffalo.org schrieb: A) Except for the pieces by Gauthier in viel ton. See list in LSA website, Prague IV g 18(?) etc. r The Rettenwert ms, yes. Gaultier is named, indeed, but how do we know it's Ennemond? A number of pieces by Gaultier in vieil ton has survived in other mss, that have as yet been ascribed to Jacques Gaultier. What these pieces have in common are certain stylistic traits. That can be stated respectively about Ennemond's compositions as well. Would you say that the Gaultier pieces in Rettenwert share distinct stylistic features with Ennemond's pieces in D minor tunings? Mathias From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu on behalf of Mathias Rösel Sent: Mon 4/26/2010 5:00 PM To: baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: The earliest d-minor tuning? Benjamin Narvey luthi...@gmail.com schrieb: In fact, the d-minor tuning (what came to be known as the accord ordinaire) was around earlier. Thomas Mace writes in 1676 that the d-minor tuning, which although it be (to my knowledge) at least 40 years old; yet it goes under the name of the new tuning [accord nouveau] still. (Mace, Musick's Monument, p. 191; emphasis mine). If we take Mace at his word, this would place the development of the d-minor tuning at a date no later than 1636, but probably earlier. Yes, of course, no argument here. Let me put it this way: Ennemond Gaultier and his cousin are credited with asserting the D minor tuning. When and why did Ennemond swing? In 1631 appeared Pierre Ballard's earliest surviving print with accords nouveaux (another p rint was previously published in 1623, but it hasn't made it to us) which contains music by Robert Ballard, Jacques de Belleville, Nicolas Bouvier, François de Chancy, François Dufaut, Estienne Houselot aka Dubuisson, René Mesangeau, et al. Robert Ballard was lutenist to the queen mother as from 1612. Jacques de Belleville was lutenist to king Louis XIII. François de Chancy was musician / lutenist to the cardinals Richelieu and Mazarin, and later to the royal chamber. Dubuisson was lutenist to the duchess d'Angoulême, whose mother had previously employed Ennemond Gaultier as page. René Mesangeau was appointed lutenist to the king in 1621. Music by Bouvier and Mesangeau was published by Pierre Ballard in 1631 as well as in 1638. Of these two, Bouvier made use of the D minor tuning in 1638. Mesangeau did not use the D minor tuning at all (the sarabande in Barbe, p. 8 is by Ennemond Gaultier). The only other composer in the 1638 print to use the D minor tuning w as Pierre Dubut le père. Ennemond Gaultier was appointed lutenist to queen mother Maria de Medici in 1620, working on this post for eleven years until he retired in 1631. He definitely belonged to the inner circles where everybody would use those so called transitional tunings. Except E. Gaultier himself. Or so one might conclude from the fact that not even one piece by him in a transitional tuning has survived (Old Gaultier's Nightingale is in flat tuning, but IMHO for stylistic reasons not by Gaultier). Perhaps there are three possible explanations. A) Vieux Gaultier used the D minor tuning for all of his life, exclusively. That's why no pieces in other tunings than D minor have survived. One may safely argue that the D minor tuning was in Gaultier's use as early as 1595. B) Gaultier played transitional tunings first, and adopted the new D minor tunings later, when it was spread by Bouvier and Dubut le père during the 1630ies. After his conversion, Gau ltier was so embarrassed about his dark past that he burned all of his ealier pieces. C) Like Dufaut et al, Gaultier made use of transitional as well as D minor tunings side by side, depending on how well the respective tuning suited his purposes. Only later, he and his cousin Denis were mistakenly credited with asserting the D minor tuning. That's why many of Ennemond's earlier pieces in transitional tunings haven't been acknowledged as yet. Mathias To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: The earliest d-minor tuning?
Dear all, Roland Hayes rha...@legalaidbuffalo.org schrieb: A) Except for the pieces by Gauthier in viel ton. See list in LSA website, Prague IV g 18(?) etc. r I never received that mail by Roland. How come? best wishes Bernd To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: The earliest d-minor tuning?
On 04/26/2010 11:00 PM, Mathias Rösel wrote: Quite a nice overview you've given Mathias, thanks! Perhaps a few additional points. Your statement that One may safely argue that the D minor tuning was in Gaultier's use as early as 1595. is a bit bold. Normally one assumes that Francisque is the first appearance of a transitional tuning (Accorde avalee) which is a bit later (1600) and these are just exceptions which have very little to do with the tunings we're talking about. One problem is that the royal patents of Le Roy and Ballard for publishing in France has perhaps prevented publication of music which was already present. Books published during the first part of the 17th century outside of France, especially Vallet and Louys de Moy in 1615 resp. 1631 are perhaps interesting here. Matthew Spring writes in his 'the lute in britain (p291) on de Moy: ..the style of the solo music in Le petit boucquet is pure French and all the attributed pieces (excepting those of de Moy himself) are by French lutenist composers. De Moy's own lute compositions are typical of the Parisian style of the 1620s just prior to the exploration of altered tunings, a style exemplified by the music of Robert Ballard. Taco Perhaps there are three possible explanations. A) Vieux Gaultier used the D minor tuning for all of his life, exclusively. That's why no pieces in other tunings than D minor have survived. B) Gaultier played transitional tunings first, and adopted the new D minor tunings later, when it was spread by Bouvier and Dubut le père during the 1630ies. After his conversion, Gaultier was so embarrassed about his dark past that he burned all of his ealier pieces. C) Like Dufaut et al, Gaultier made use of transitional as well as D minor tunings side by side, depending on how well the respective tuning suited his purposes. Only later, he and his cousin Denis were mistakenly credited with asserting the D minor tuning. That's why many of Ennemond's earlier pieces in transitional tunings haven't been acknowledged as yet. Mathias To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: The earliest d-minor tuning?
Mathias, --- On Tue, 4/27/10, Mathias Rösel mathias.roe...@t-online.de wrote: Roland Hayes rha...@legalaidbuffalo.org schrieb: A) Except for the pieces by Gauthier in viel ton. See list in LSA website, Prague IV g 18(?) etc. r What these pieces have in common are certain stylistic traits. That can be stated respectively about Ennemond's compositions as well. Would you say that the Gaultier pieces in Rettenwert share distinct stylistic features with Ennemond's pieces in D minor tunings? Mathias I don't know these pieces, nor am I conversant enough with Ennemond's work to recognize his stylistic traits as distinct from his contemporaries. Just to play devil's advocate, however, assuming the possibility that the pieces in old tuning could be early works of Ennemond, wouldn't one expect that they would differ on stylistic grounds? Also, couldn't it be possible that these aspects of Ennemond's style developed precisely because of the latent possibilities of the new tuning? I'm not arguing for or against anything here. I'd be interested in hearing what Ennemond's traits are, though. Chris From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu on behalf of Mathias Rösel Sent: Mon 4/26/2010 5:00 PM To: baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: The earliest d-minor tuning? Benjamin Narvey luthi...@gmail.com schrieb: In fact, the d-minor tuning (what came to be known as the accord ordinaire) was around earlier. Thomas Mace writes in 1676 that the d-minor tuning, which although it be (to my knowledge) at least 40 years old; yet it goes under the name of the new tuning [accord nouveau] still. (Mace, Musick's Monument, p. 191; emphasis mine). If we take Mace at his word, this would place the development of the d-minor tuning at a date no later than 1636, but probably earlier. Yes, of course, no argument here. Let me put it this way: Ennemond Gaultier and his cousin are credited with asserting the D minor tuning. When and why did Ennemond swing? In 1631 appeared Pierre Ballard's earliest surviving print with accords nouveaux (another p rint was previously published in 1623, but it hasn't made it to us) which contains music by Robert Ballard, Jacques de Belleville, Nicolas Bouvier, François de Chancy, François Dufaut, Estienne Houselot aka Dubuisson, René Mesangeau, et al. Robert Ballard was lutenist to the queen mother as from 1612. Jacques de Belleville was lutenist to king Louis XIII. François de Chancy was musician / lutenist to the cardinals Richelieu and Mazarin, and later to the royal chamber. Dubuisson was lutenist to the duchess d'Angoulême, whose mother had previously employed Ennemond Gaultier as page. René Mesangeau was appointed lutenist to the king in 1621. Music by Bouvier and Mesangeau was published by Pierre Ballard in 1631 as well as in 1638. Of these two, Bouvier made use of the D minor tuning in 1638. Mesangeau did not use the D minor tuning at all (the sarabande in Barbe, p. 8 is by Ennemond Gaultier). The only other composer in the 1638 print to use the D minor tuning w as Pierre Dubut le père. Ennemond Gaultier was appointed lutenist to queen mother Maria de Medici in 1620, working on this post for eleven years until he retired in 1631. He definitely belonged to the inner circles where everybody would use those so called transitional tunings. Except E. Gaultier himself. Or so one might conclude from the fact that not even one piece by him in a transitional tuning has survived (Old Gaultier's Nightingale is in flat tuning, but IMHO for stylistic reasons not by Gaultier). Perhaps there are three possible explanations. A) Vieux Gaultier used the D minor tuning for all of his life, exclusively. That's why no pieces in other tunings than D minor have survived. One may safely argue that the D minor tuning was in Gaultier's use as early as 1595. B) Gaultier played transitional tunings first, and adopted the new D minor tunings later, when it was spread by Bouvier and Dubut le père during the 1630ies. After his conversion, Gau ltier was so embarrassed about his dark past that he burned all of his ealier pieces. C) Like Dufaut et al, Gaultier made use of transitional as well as D minor tunings side by side, depending on how well the respective tuning suited his purposes. Only later, he and his cousin Denis were mistakenly credited with asserting the D minor tuning. That's why many of Ennemond's earlier pieces in transitional tunings haven't been acknowledged as yet. Mathias To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: The earliest d-minor tuning?
Taco Walstra wals...@science.uva.nl schrieb: One may safely argue that the D minor tuning was in Gaultier's use as early as 1595. is a bit bold. Yes, of course. I wasn't entirely serious with it as you can easily see if you take a step back and consider the whole picture. Ennemond didn't have his music printed himself. So nobody can by any means know his ways in 1595. I for one do not think that he clung to the D minor tuning from the beginning of his career. In fact I consider it most likely that he did what everybody else did in the 1620ies through 1630ies, viz. abandon vieil ton step by step, try sharp and flat tunings, finally reaching his destination at D minor tuning possibly in the mid-1630ies. One problem is that the royal patents of Le Roy and Ballard for publishing in France has perhaps prevented publication of music which was already present. A point I was wondering at. Gaultier belonged to the court staff. Why are all the royal lewdenists present in Ballard's 1631 and 1638 prints except for the lutenist of the queen mother, Ennemond Gaultier? If ever cardinal Richelieu took lessons with Gaultier, it must have taken place before Nov 10th 1630, because on that day Richelieu and the queen mother officially broke off negotiations. The king joined Richelieu, and Maria de Medici was sentenced to exile for lifetime on Feb 23rd 1631. That year, Gaultier retired. Does that explain why his music wasn't printed during his lifetime? Books published during the first part of the 17th century outside of France, especially Vallet and Louys de Moy in 1615 resp. 1631 are perhaps interesting here. Not aware of accords avalées in their prints. Excellent music, nevertheless. Mathias Perhaps there are three possible explanations. A) Vieux Gaultier used the D minor tuning for all of his life, exclusively. That's why no pieces in other tunings than D minor have survived. B) Gaultier played transitional tunings first, and adopted the new D minor tunings later, when it was spread by Bouvier and Dubut le père during the 1630ies. After his conversion, Gaultier was so embarrassed about his dark past that he burned all of his ealier pieces. C) Like Dufaut et al, Gaultier made use of transitional as well as D minor tunings side by side, depending on how well the respective tuning suited his purposes. Only later, he and his cousin Denis were mistakenly credited with asserting the D minor tuning. That's why many of Ennemond's earlier pieces in transitional tunings haven't been acknowledged as yet. Mathias To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: The earliest d-minor tuning?
Roland Hayes rha...@legalaidbuffalo.org schrieb: The LSA list has more than 100 pieces if I recall, from many sources. Some are very likely Jaques Gaultier, but others not. It is a great big interesting swamp. Some of the pieces are really good and challenging in Viel ton like the mesangeau piece in Novus Partus - a really new way of approaching the instrument. These would be my candidates for pieces by Ennemonde.r In his talk on French 17th century lute music (Lute News # 85, April 2008, p. 8 seqq), Anthony Bailes pointed out two features of Mesangeau's style that can be found in Michelangolo Galilei's music (print 1620, Munich) as well: the off-beat bass notes, and the arpeggiated style, both of which seem at odds with German and Italian music of the time (p. 10). That should be criteria, too, in distinguishing Jacques' from Ennemond's music, considering that Jacques left France and entered Britain in 1617. In case you stumble upon music ascribed to Gaultier that matches these characteristics, pls let us know. Mathias -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Mathias Rösel Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2010 5:46 AM To: baroque Lutelist Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: The earliest d-minor tuning? Roland Hayes rha...@legalaidbuffalo.org schrieb: A) Except for the pieces by Gauthier in viel ton. See list in LSA website, Prague IV g 18(?) etc. r The Rettenwert ms, yes. Gaultier is named, indeed, but how do we know it's Ennemond? A number of pieces by Gaultier in vieil ton has survived in other mss, that have as yet been ascribed to Jacques Gaultier. What these pieces have in common are certain stylistic traits. That can be stated respectively about Ennemond's compositions as well. Would you say that the Gaultier pieces in Rettenwert share distinct stylistic features with Ennemond's pieces in D minor tunings? Mathias From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu on behalf of Mathias Rösel Sent: Mon 4/26/2010 5:00 PM To: baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: The earliest d-minor tuning? Benjamin Narvey luthi...@gmail.com schrieb: In fact, the d-minor tuning (what came to be known as the accord ordinaire) was around earlier. Thomas Mace writes in 1676 that the d-minor tuning, which although it be (to my knowledge) at least 40 years old; yet it goes under the name of the new tuning [accord nouveau] still. (Mace, Musick's Monument, p. 191; emphasis mine). If we take Mace at his word, this would place the development of the d-minor tuning at a date no later than 1636, but probably earlier. Yes, of course, no argument here. Let me put it this way: Ennemond Gaultier and his cousin are credited with asserting the D minor tuning. When and why did Ennemond swing? In 1631 appeared Pierre Ballard's earliest surviving print with accords nouveaux (another p rint was previously published in 1623, but it hasn't made it to us) which contains music by Robert Ballard, Jacques de Belleville, Nicolas Bouvier, François de Chancy, François Dufaut, Estienne Houselot aka Dubuisson, René Mesangeau, et al. Robert Ballard was lutenist to the queen mother as from 1612. Jacques de Belleville was lutenist to king Louis XIII. François de Chancy was musician / lutenist to the cardinals Richelieu and Mazarin, and later to the royal chamber. Dubuisson was lutenist to the duchess d'Angoulême, whose mother had previously employed Ennemond Gaultier as page. René Mesangeau was appointed lutenist to the king in 1621. Music by Bouvier and Mesangeau was published by Pierre Ballard in 1631 as well as in 1638. Of these two, Bouvier made use of the D minor tuning in 1638. Mesangeau did not use the D minor tuning at all (the sarabande in Barbe, p. 8 is by Ennemond Gaultier). The only other composer in the 1638 print to use the D minor tuning w as Pierre Dubut le père. Ennemond Gaultier was appointed lutenist to queen mother Maria de Medici in 1620, working on this post for eleven years until he retired in 1631. He definitely belonged to the inner circles where everybody would use those so called transitional tunings. Except E. Gaultier himself. Or so one might conclude from the fact that not even one piece by him in a transitional tuning has survived (Old Gaultier's Nightingale is in flat tuning, but IMHO for stylistic reasons not by Gaultier). Perhaps there are three possible explanations. A) Vieux Gaultier used the D minor tuning for all of his life, exclusively. That's why no pieces in other tunings than D minor have survived. One may safely argue that the D minor tuning was in Gaultier's use as early as 1595. B) Gaultier played transitional tunings first, and adopted the new D minor tunings later, when it was spread by Bouvier and Dubut le père during the 1630ies. After his conversion, Gau ltier was so embarrassed
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: The earliest d-minor tuning?
Hi all, Interesting thread! In fact, the d-minor tuning (what came to be known as the accord ordinaire) was around earlier. Thomas Mace writes in 1676 that the d-minor tuning, which although it be (to my knowledge) at least 40 years old; yet it goes under the name of the new tuning [accord nouveau] still. (Mace, Musick's Monument, p. 191; emphasis mine). If we take Mace at his word, this would place the development of the d-minor tuning at a date no later than 1636, but probably earlier. Although we like to preface conclusions drawn from Mace with caveats, his comment in this instance really does make sense: we must remember that the commonly cited date of 1638 is in fact only the first *publication* we have with music in this tuning: Pierre Ballard's Tablature de Luth de different autheurs (Paris: Ballard, 1638). Of course, the d-minor tuning (what came to be known as the accord ordinaire) had to have been around earlier: obviously the discovery of this tuning, the mastery of playing in it, the composition of pieces in it, and the publication process all took some time, I should think at the very least 5 years or so, but probably something more like ten years. (With regards to this last point, it is worth noting that even in our own digital age publication usually takes - at least! - a year or two, and that this process was a substantially longer one in the 17th century.) Finally, the absence of evidence is not evidence of absence: the first print to use the accords nouveaux, Pierre Ballards Tablature de luth de differents autheurs sur laccord ordinaire et extraordinaire (Paris, 1623) is now lost, and it is entirely possible that the d-minor tuning made its first appearance here; IFF this were the case, we could even back date the d-minor tuning to as early as the 16-teens I admit that this is pure speculation, however. With everything taken together, if I were to hazard a guess, I would probably date the inception of the d-minor tuning as occurring at some time in the 1620's. Best wishes, Benjamin On 25 April 2010 10:11, Mathias Roesel [1]mathias.roe...@t-online.de wrote: All textbooks that I'm aware of mention 1638 as the first use of D minor tuning in print. Mathias wikla [2]wi...@cs.helsinki.fi schrieb: Hey gang, what could be the earliest written or printed use of d-minor tuning? I know the Ballard and P. Gaultier books of 1638, both having some pieces (minority) in that tuning. First time? The Ballard 1631 doesn't seem to have any? Anyone knows any earlier than 1638 use of that tuning? Arto To get on or off this list see list information at [3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- Dr Benjamin A. Narvey Institute of Musical Research School of Advanced Study University of London t +33 (0) 1 44 27 03 44 p/m +33 (0) 6 71 79 98 98 Site web/Website: [4]www.luthiste.com -- References 1. mailto:mathias.roe...@t-online.de 2. mailto:wi...@cs.helsinki.fi 3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 4. http://www.luthiste.com/
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: The earliest d-minor tuning?
In 1623, (lost Ballard), Vieux Gaultier is said to have been 48 yrs. old. As one of the foremost exponents of d-minor tuning, its plausible that _he_ might have made use of it (much?) earlier than that and perhaps even had a role in its discovery. G. - Original Message - From: Benjamin Narvey luthi...@gmail.com To: Taco Walstra wals...@science.uva.nl Cc: baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu; wikla wi...@cs.helsinki.fi Sent: Monday, April 26, 2010 2:11 PM Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: The earliest d-minor tuning? Yes, this manuscript may well be the earliest source of music in d-minor tuning - it is probably amongst the earliest sources at any rate. That said, we're not exactly certain about when it was compiled, and it's datation has been cast wide, circa 1625-1655. On 26 April 2010 13:00, Taco Walstra [1]wals...@science.uva.nl wrote: On 04/25/2010 10:11 AM, Mathias Roesel wrote: An earlier source is Manuscrit Werl which contains a few pieces by michelangelo galilei for 10 course lute in renaissance tuning, but also about 250 pieces in various transitional tunings of which d-minor is just one. The date is ca1625. Taco All textbooks that I'm aware of mention 1638 as the first use of D minor tuning in print. Mathias wikla[2]wi...@cs.helsinki.fi schrieb: Hey gang, what could be the earliest written or printed use of d-minor tuning? I know the Ballard and P. Gaultier books of 1638, both having some pieces (minority) in that tuning. First time? The Ballard 1631 doesn't seem to have any? Anyone knows any earlier than 1638 use of that tuning? Arto To get on or off this list see list information at [3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- Dr Benjamin A. Narvey Institute of Musical Research School of Advanced Study University of London t +33 (0) 1 44 27 03 44 p/m +33 (0) 6 71 79 98 98 Site web/Website: [4]www.luthiste.com -- References 1. mailto:wals...@science.uva.nl 2. mailto:wi...@cs.helsinki.fi 3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html 4. http://www.luthiste.com/ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.814 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2835 - Release Date: 04/25/10 20:31:00
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: The earliest d-minor tuning?
Thanks to everyone for interesting info! The timing of mss. really seems to be a problem. By the way, today I tubed a couple of early d-minor stuff from Ballard 1638: Prelude and Allemande by Nicolas Bouvier: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKMpNMMXgQ0 http://www.vimeo.com/11235568 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQqakCkP0nU http://www.vimeo.com/11235914 Actually very well composed music. My playing just normal... But don't listen too loud. And this time I also put the original music to my page http://www.cs.helsinki.fi/u/wikla/mus/11_courseLute/ Perhaps especially the written Prelude is interesting. Also the Allemende suits to player's hands nicely. All the best, Arto On Mon, 26 Apr 2010 14:11:00 +0200, Benjamin Narvey luthi...@gmail.com wrote: Yes, this manuscript may well be the earliest source of music in d-minor tuning - it is probably amongst the earliest sources at any rate. That said, we're not exactly certain about when it was compiled, and it's datation has been cast wide, circa 1625-1655. On 26 April 2010 13:00, Taco Walstra [1]wals...@science.uva.nl wrote: On 04/25/2010 10:11 AM, Mathias Roesel wrote: An earlier source is Manuscrit Werl which contains a few pieces by michelangelo galilei for 10 course lute in renaissance tuning, but also about 250 pieces in various transitional tunings of which d-minor is just one. The date is ca1625. Taco All textbooks that I'm aware of mention 1638 as the first use of D minor tuning in print. Mathias wikla[2]wi...@cs.helsinki.fi schrieb: Hey gang, what could be the earliest written or printed use of d-minor tuning? I know the Ballard and P. Gaultier books of 1638, both having some pieces (minority) in that tuning. First time? The Ballard 1631 doesn't seem to have any? Anyone knows any earlier than 1638 use of that tuning? Arto To get on or off this list see list information at [3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- Dr Benjamin A. Narvey Institute of Musical Research School of Advanced Study University of London t +33 (0) 1 44 27 03 44 p/m +33 (0) 6 71 79 98 98 Site web/Website: [4]www.luthiste.com -- References 1. mailto:wals...@science.uva.nl 2. mailto:wi...@cs.helsinki.fi 3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html 4. http://www.luthiste.com/
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: The earliest d-minor tuning?
Benjamin Narvey luthi...@gmail.com schrieb: In fact, the d-minor tuning (what came to be known as the accord ordinaire) was around earlier. Thomas Mace writes in 1676 that the d-minor tuning, which although it be (to my knowledge) at least 40 years old; yet it goes under the name of the new tuning [accord nouveau] still. (Mace, Musick's Monument, p. 191; emphasis mine). If we take Mace at his word, this would place the development of the d-minor tuning at a date no later than 1636, but probably earlier. Yes, of course, no argument here. Let me put it this way: Ennemond Gaultier and his cousin are credited with asserting the D minor tuning. When and why did Ennemond swing? In 1631 appeared Pierre Ballard's earliest surviving print with accords nouveaux (another print was previously published in 1623, but it hasn't made it to us) which contains music by Robert Ballard, Jacques de Belleville, Nicolas Bouvier, François de Chancy, François Dufaut, Estienne Houselot aka Dubuisson, René Mesangeau, et al. Robert Ballard was lutenist to the queen mother as from 1612. Jacques de Belleville was lutenist to king Louis XIII. François de Chancy was musician / lutenist to the cardinals Richelieu and Mazarin, and later to the royal chamber. Dubuisson was lutenist to the duchess d'Angoulême, whose mother had previously employed Ennemond Gaultier as page. René Mesangeau was appointed lutenist to the king in 1621. Music by Bouvier and Mesangeau was published by Pierre Ballard in 1631 as well as in 1638. Of these two, Bouvier made use of the D minor tuning in 1638. Mesangeau did not use the D minor tuning at all (the sarabande in Barbe, p. 8 is by Ennemond Gaultier). The only other composer in the 1638 print to use the D minor tuning was Pierre Dubut le père. Ennemond Gaultier was appointed lutenist to queen mother Maria de Medici in 1620, working on this post for eleven years until he retired in 1631. He definitely belonged to the inner circles where everybody would use those so called transitional tunings. Except E. Gaultier himself. Or so one might conclude from the fact that not even one piece by him in a transitional tuning has survived (Old Gaultier's Nightingale is in flat tuning, but IMHO for stylistic reasons not by Gaultier). Perhaps there are three possible explanations. A) Vieux Gaultier used the D minor tuning for all of his life, exclusively. That's why no pieces in other tunings than D minor have survived. One may safely argue that the D minor tuning was in Gaultier's use as early as 1595. B) Gaultier played transitional tunings first, and adopted the new D minor tunings later, when it was spread by Bouvier and Dubut le père during the 1630ies. After his conversion, Gaultier was so embarrassed about his dark past that he burned all of his ealier pieces. C) Like Dufaut et al, Gaultier made use of transitional as well as D minor tunings side by side, depending on how well the respective tuning suited his purposes. Only later, he and his cousin Denis were mistakenly credited with asserting the D minor tuning. That's why many of Ennemond's earlier pieces in transitional tunings haven't been acknowledged as yet. Mathias To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: The earliest d-minor tuning?
Benjamin Narvey luthi...@gmail.com schrieb: Yes, this manuscript may well be the earliest source of music in d-minor tuning - it is probably amongst the earliest sources at any rate. That said, we're not exactly certain about when it was compiled, and it's datation has been cast wide, circa 1625-1655. Spencer was pretty specific about it. Pieces in vieil ton as from 1625, pieces in transitional tunings between 1630 and 1635, and pieces in D major and minor toward the end of the 1630ies (preface, p. 23). Mathias On 26 April 2010 13:00, Taco Walstra [1]wals...@science.uva.nl wrote: On 04/25/2010 10:11 AM, Mathias Roesel wrote: An earlier source is Manuscrit Werl which contains a few pieces by michelangelo galilei for 10 course lute in renaissance tuning, but also about 250 pieces in various transitional tunings of which d-minor is just one. The date is ca1625. Taco All textbooks that I'm aware of mention 1638 as the first use of D minor tuning in print. Mathias wikla[2]wi...@cs.helsinki.fi schrieb: Hey gang, what could be the earliest written or printed use of d-minor tuning? I know the Ballard and P. Gaultier books of 1638, both having some pieces (minority) in that tuning. First time? The Ballard 1631 doesn't seem to have any? Anyone knows any earlier than 1638 use of that tuning? Arto To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: The earliest d-minor tuning?
All textbooks that I'm aware of mention 1638 as the first use of D minor tuning in print. Mathias wikla wi...@cs.helsinki.fi schrieb: Hey gang, what could be the earliest written or printed use of d-minor tuning? I know the Ballard and P. Gaultier books of 1638, both having some pieces (minority) in that tuning. First time? The Ballard 1631 doesn't seem to have any? Anyone knows any earlier than 1638 use of that tuning? Arto To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
