Re: BBDB ELPA-style packaging
On Sun, 27 Feb 2011 15:48:38 -0600 Roland Winkler wink...@gnu.org wrote: RW On Wed Feb 23 2011 Ted Zlatanov wrote: On Sat, 22 Jan 2011 10:54:12 -0600 Roland Winkler wink...@gnu.org wrote: Could you consider moving to Git or Bazaar for development? CVS is very inconvenient. I can't use it from work, for instance (pserver is blocked, only http and https work). If you like Git, I can host the repository or you can use Github or your own server. I personally don't like to depend on Github but many do. For Bazaar, I think you can use a Savannah repository but I don't know what setup is needed. RW In principle, I am open here. I have used CVS for bbdb quite simply RW because I know how I can do the few things that I want/need to do. I RW haven't found the time to sit down and figure out how git and bzr RW are working, though this is on my todo list, too. Git is pretty simple to use on a basic level. Basically you edit the file, then git add, then git commit, then git push. You can play around with a repository before pushing your changes, so unless you completely screw things up, you can back out of most problems. magit is a nice package that abstracts most of the command-line stuff. And of course the Emacs VC package will work as you'd expect. If you want, I can convert the current CVS history of BBDB as you have it into a Git repository. It's pretty trivial; see http://www.kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/gitcvs-migration.html for a quick guide. Then you can simply clone that repository and use it on Savannah's Git servers or Github or whatever you like. You can keep serving CVS out of it but I would recommend cutting off CVS instead. I can probably do most of this if you add me to the admin list on Savannah so I can update the web pages as I go. The BBDB web page is outdated and should probably at least mention version 3. RW Which web page? The one on savannah? I started with a rather RW rudimentary web page. As things progress, it might be good to update RW it, too. (I cannot do anything about the old sourceforge page.) You can probably get the old sourceforge page transferred or redirected. But I'm sure this is a hassle for you. Ted -- Free Software Download: Index, Search Analyze Logs and other IT data in Real-Time with Splunk. Collect, index and harness all the fast moving IT data generated by your applications, servers and devices whether physical, virtual or in the cloud. Deliver compliance at lower cost and gain new business insights. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-dev2dev ___ bbdb-info@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bbdb-info BBDB Home Page: http://bbdb.sourceforge.net/
bbdb anniversaries [was: BBDB ELPA-style packaging]
On Sun Feb 27 2011 Roland Winkler wrote: On Wed Feb 23 2011 Ted Zlatanov wrote: RW I'll try to make some kind of table that shows how the functionality RW in the current code (functions and variables) relates to the old RW BBDB code. Then hopefully it will become more clear to what extent RW which parts of BBDB still contain old code. Then we can go from there. Any updates? Unfortunately, I need to say that my time for such things is limited. I am doing my best, but it's hard to make more specific predictions. All I can say is that right now my schedule is filled yet more with other stuff. I thought I could / should also mention here: Various changes and extensions that I added to BBDB took me further away from the original code. So I want to mention that I have one more somewhat larger idea in the back of my mind. Currently, it is required that the values of BBDB note fields are strings. It would be nice if these fields could be made more flexible by allowing them to have values that can be any lisp object suitable for a particular field. More specifically, I have in mind that one could define handlers which include a list of functions that allow one to create, edit, and format a particular note field, such as `foo'. If such a handler is defined, it will be used for handling a note field. Otherwise, it will be assumed that the field has the conventionel string format. One particular application I have in mind here are anniversaries associated with a record. There was an old extension `bbdb-anniv.el' for adding anniversaries to BBDB records written by Ivar Rummelhoff. Here the value of the anniversary field was a conventionel string that was parsed in a sophisticated way to extract a list of anniversaries that was then fed into the emacs diary. It seems to me that it would be much cleaner to store such anniversaries using a list of numbers similar to the argument list used by the diary-anniversary function. Such a feature would provide a proof of concept for the more general note handlers. Once this is working properly, maybe other people have more ideas for adding other note handlers. Comments and suggestions welcome! Once this last larger project on my bbdb todo list has been added, it might be more meaningful to check carefully to what extent the new and old bbdb share the same code. Roland -- Free Software Download: Index, Search Analyze Logs and other IT data in Real-Time with Splunk. Collect, index and harness all the fast moving IT data generated by your applications, servers and devices whether physical, virtual or in the cloud. Deliver compliance at lower cost and gain new business insights. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-dev2dev ___ bbdb-info@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bbdb-info BBDB Home Page: http://bbdb.sourceforge.net/
Re: BBDB ELPA-style packaging
On Wed Feb 23 2011 Ted Zlatanov wrote: On Sat, 22 Jan 2011 10:54:12 -0600 Roland Winkler wink...@gnu.org wrote: RW On Thu Jan 20 2011 Ted Zlatanov wrote: Let me know when you've figured out what portions and authors need to be tracked down. I'll work with Chong Yidong and you to do it. RW I'll try to make some kind of table that shows how the functionality RW in the current code (functions and variables) relates to the old RW BBDB code. Then hopefully it will become more clear to what extent RW which parts of BBDB still contain old code. Then we can go from there. Any updates? Unfortunately, I need to say that my time for such things is limited. I am doing my best, but it's hard to make more specific predictions. All I can say is that right now my schedule is filled yet more with other stuff. Could you consider moving to Git or Bazaar for development? CVS is very inconvenient. I can't use it from work, for instance (pserver is blocked, only http and https work). If you like Git, I can host the repository or you can use Github or your own server. I personally don't like to depend on Github but many do. For Bazaar, I think you can use a Savannah repository but I don't know what setup is needed. In principle, I am open here. I have used CVS for bbdb quite simply because I know how I can do the few things that I want/need to do. I haven't found the time to sit down and figure out how git and bzr are working, though this is on my todo list, too. The BBDB web page is outdated and should probably at least mention version 3. Which web page? The one on savannah? I started with a rather rudimentary web page. As things progress, it might be good to update it, too. (I cannot do anything about the old sourceforge page.) Roland -- Free Software Download: Index, Search Analyze Logs and other IT data in Real-Time with Splunk. Collect, index and harness all the fast moving IT data generated by your applications, servers and devices whether physical, virtual or in the cloud. Deliver compliance at lower cost and gain new business insights. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-dev2dev ___ bbdb-info@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bbdb-info BBDB Home Page: http://bbdb.sourceforge.net/
Re: BBDB ELPA-style packaging
On Sat, 22 Jan 2011 10:54:12 -0600 Roland Winkler wink...@gnu.org wrote: RW On Thu Jan 20 2011 Ted Zlatanov wrote: Let me know when you've figured out what portions and authors need to be tracked down. I'll work with Chong Yidong and you to do it. RW I'll try to make some kind of table that shows how the functionality RW in the current code (functions and variables) relates to the old RW BBDB code. Then hopefully it will become more clear to what extent RW which parts of BBDB still contain old code. Then we can go from there. Any updates? Could you consider moving to Git or Bazaar for development? CVS is very inconvenient. I can't use it from work, for instance (pserver is blocked, only http and https work). If you like Git, I can host the repository or you can use Github or your own server. I personally don't like to depend on Github but many do. For Bazaar, I think you can use a Savannah repository but I don't know what setup is needed. The BBDB web page is outdated and should probably at least mention version 3. Thanks Ted -- Free Software Download: Index, Search Analyze Logs and other IT data in Real-Time with Splunk. Collect, index and harness all the fast moving IT data generated by your applications, servers and devices whether physical, virtual or in the cloud. Deliver compliance at lower cost and gain new business insights. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-dev2dev ___ bbdb-info@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bbdb-info BBDB Home Page: http://bbdb.sourceforge.net/
Re: BBDB ELPA-style packaging
On Wed Jan 19 2011 Ted Zlatanov wrote: I'd be OK with providing BBDB3 in a beta form through elpa.gnu.org. As long as the version string states it clearly, which it will. You are likely to get plenty of feedback. Feedback is always appreciated! A rewrite is the worst case, where you can't find the original contributor or they are not willing to assign the copyright to the FSF. Some pieces of BBDB in their original form are rather old. So I exepct that tracking down the original contributor can be more difficult. (CC to Chong Yidong in case he wants to comment) My main question is the legal meaning of rewrite. (Almost all code has been rewritten in one or the other way.) If BBDB3 is written by you then you have the copyright AFAIK. We need to find the code that you did not write and track down the authors. Can you do the first part? I can try to make a list of things that I have changed less. By the way, I already passed on the copyright to FSF for my general contributions to GNU Emacs. Is this enough here? I'll be happy to do this once more. RW ...For the new code I have not yet found anybody who might want to RW help with it. In that sense, I can speak here without further RW consultation for all (current) BBDB developpers. That's wonderful. Yes and no :-) Anybodies help is greatly appreciated... Thank you for working on this functionality and I look foward to helping you test and document it. ...including yours. Roland -- Protect Your Site and Customers from Malware Attacks Learn about various malware tactics and how to avoid them. Understand malware threats, the impact they can have on your business, and how you can protect your company and customers by using code signing. http://p.sf.net/sfu/oracle-sfdevnl ___ bbdb-info@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bbdb-info BBDB Home Page: http://bbdb.sourceforge.net/
Re: BBDB ELPA-style packaging
On Thu, 20 Jan 2011 08:17:27 -0600 Roland Winkler wink...@gnu.org wrote: RW On Wed Jan 19 2011 Ted Zlatanov wrote: A rewrite is the worst case, where you can't find the original contributor or they are not willing to assign the copyright to the FSF. RW Some pieces of BBDB in their original form are rather old. So I RW exepct that tracking down the original contributor can be more RW difficult. Sure, I figured that might be the case. Fortunately it only has to be done once :) Let me know when you've figured out what portions and authors need to be tracked down. I'll work with Chong Yidong and you to do it. RW By the way, I already passed on the copyright to FSF for my RW general contributions to GNU Emacs. Is this enough here? RW I'll be happy to do this once more. I think it's enough, it's what I've done too. Ted -- Protect Your Site and Customers from Malware Attacks Learn about various malware tactics and how to avoid them. Understand malware threats, the impact they can have on your business, and how you can protect your company and customers by using code signing. http://p.sf.net/sfu/oracle-sfdevnl ___ bbdb-info@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bbdb-info BBDB Home Page: http://bbdb.sourceforge.net/
Re: BBDB ELPA-style packaging
I'd be OK with providing BBDB3 in a beta form through elpa.gnu.org. As long as the version string states it clearly, which it will. You are likely to get plenty of feedback. Feedback is always appreciated! Talking about feedback: is there some warning/discussion about the change of format somewhere? I'm very happy with your BBDB3 overall, but the change of format is rather inconvenient (I share my bbdb file among several machines and would prefer to not have to upgrade them all at the same time). A rewrite is the worst case, where you can't find the original contributor or they are not willing to assign the copyright to the FSF. Some pieces of BBDB in their original form are rather old. So I exepct that tracking down the original contributor can be more difficult. AFAICT the main problem will be that Jamie is known for refusing to sign any copyright assignment for the FSF, and he's the original author, so any code of his that survived will need a rewrite. My main question is the legal meaning of rewrite. (Almost all code has been rewritten in one or the other way.) If the similarity is due to the API (e.g. compatibility with user's custom settings will force you to share variable names), I think that such similarity is OK, but otherwise, the code should look sufficiently different that the original author can't say look they took my code. By the way, I already passed on the copyright to FSF for my general contributions to GNU Emacs. Is this enough here? I'll be happy to do this once more. For your own code, AFAIK your general assignment can be sufficient under the condition that you send an email to ass...@gnu.org telling them that you consider this code to be covered by your assignment (this is because bbdb is not part of Emacs). That's wonderful. Yes and no :-) Hopefully your BBDB revival (and inclusion in the FSF's ELPA) will bring new blood. E.g. I've bumped into a few issues in the past but, for lack of a place where to report them, I never bothered to send a patch. Stefan -- Protect Your Site and Customers from Malware Attacks Learn about various malware tactics and how to avoid them. Understand malware threats, the impact they can have on your business, and how you can protect your company and customers by using code signing. http://p.sf.net/sfu/oracle-sfdevnl ___ bbdb-info@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bbdb-info BBDB Home Page: http://bbdb.sourceforge.net/
Re: BBDB ELPA-style packaging
On Sat, 18 Dec 2010 07:24:18 -0600 Roland Winkler wink...@gnu.org wrote: RW On Fri Dec 17 2010 Ted Zlatanov wrote: You should decide: - do you want to take patches from Emacs or keep them separate? RW I'll be happy to take patches from anybody, if they help to fix bugs RW in the code or to improve the code in any other way. If it turns out RW that a patch collides with anything else in BBDB (not all ideas that RW I put into the new code or that I have in the back of my mind have RW been spelled out yet) I might take the liberty to try to improve it. Sure. I doubt this will be a problem; the major issues will probably be with code style and the manuals. - do you want to make BBDB provided with Emacs 24 by default through package.el? (I want to be clear about this, people will be able to install it very easily.) RW Again: this is certainly fine with me. The only issue might be: I RW hope that upon the release of Emacs 24 the new BBDB will have RW reached at least a more stable beta phase. (A rewrite of the info RW pages stands out as a larger task where I cannot make predictions RW how long this might take. Apart from that, right now I have only RW some smaller todo items I want to get done in the near future.) RW The major issue will be to accumulate some feedback from users of RW the new code. I'd be OK with providing BBDB3 in a beta form through elpa.gnu.org. As long as the version string states it clearly, which it will. You are likely to get plenty of feedback. - can you work with me and the Emacs maintainers to assign the BBDB source code to the FSF? We'll need to track down a lot of contributors and possibly rewrite code. RW Again: fine with me! -- I don't know what rewrite means from the RW legal perspective that matters here. If you simply compared the new RW and old code line by line, I doubt that you might find more than a RW few percent that have not been changed / rewritten more or less RW substantially. On the other hand, I tried to preserve major concepts RW of BBDB that appeared quite reasonable to me. A rewrite is the worst case, where you can't find the original contributor or they are not willing to assign the copyright to the FSF. (CC to Chong Yidong in case he wants to comment) If BBDB3 is written by you then you have the copyright AFAIK. We need to find the code that you did not write and track down the authors. Can you do the first part? If the last one is too much work or not OK with the BBDB developers, RW ...For the new code I have not yet found anybody who might want to RW help with it. In that sense, I can speak here without further RW consultation for all (current) BBDB developpers. That's wonderful. Thank you for working on this functionality and I look foward to helping you test and document it. Ted -- Protect Your Site and Customers from Malware Attacks Learn about various malware tactics and how to avoid them. Understand malware threats, the impact they can have on your business, and how you can protect your company and customers by using code signing. http://p.sf.net/sfu/oracle-sfdevnl ___ bbdb-info@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bbdb-info BBDB Home Page: http://bbdb.sourceforge.net/
BBDB ELPA-style packaging (was: ChangeLog 2010-12-15)
On Thu, 16 Dec 2010 22:08:02 -0600 Roland Winkler wink...@gnu.org wrote: RW On Thu Dec 16 2010 Ted Zlatanov wrote: Roland, thank you for your work. I'd like to package your version of BBDB as `bbdb3' and put it in the Emacs GNU ELPA package repository. I'd like to call it `bbdb3' because your version is pretty different from BBDB 2.x and thus users will expect those changes when they install it. Would all of that be OK with you? RW I've seen ELPA but have not yet found the time to look at it in more RW detail. But I am confident that putting the new BBDB there will be RW fine. I assume that when you call the new BBDB on ELPA bbdb3, this RW does not require to rename the code itself. (If necessary, I could RW do that, too. But then I'd prefer a name that does not have a RW version number built-in.) No, it's just a tarball. I don't think BBDB will require anything more as far as packaging. I'll use the http://savannah.nongnu.org/projects/bbdb CVS repository and synchronize from it daily; the GNU ELPA repo lives at bzr://bzr.savannah.gnu.org/emacs/elpa/ RW That would be perfect. At present, I consider the new BBDB in an RW alpha phase. It works pretty well for me and I believe that others RW have started to use it, too. But there are still some rough edges RW that I want to remove. So synchronizing bbdb3 on ELPA with the CVS RW repository of BBDB on savannah would be a good solution. You should decide: - do you want to take patches from Emacs or keep them separate? - do you want to make BBDB provided with Emacs 24 by default through package.el? (I want to be clear about this, people will be able to install it very easily.) - can you work with me and the Emacs maintainers to assign the BBDB source code to the FSF? We'll need to track down a lot of contributors and possibly rewrite code. If the last one is too much work or not OK with the BBDB developers, we can still package BBDB 3.x as bbdb3 but it will have to go in Tom Tromey's ELPA instead or you can set up your own ELPA-style archive (it's really easy). So it won't be as easy to obtain bbdb3 with a new Emacs install and you won't get as many patches back from the Emacs developers due to the lower visibility. Ted -- Lotusphere 2011 Register now for Lotusphere 2011 and learn how to connect the dots, take your collaborative environment to the next level, and enter the era of Social Business. http://p.sf.net/sfu/lotusphere-d2d ___ bbdb-info@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bbdb-info BBDB Home Page: http://bbdb.sourceforge.net/
