Re: Canberra wildfires
Katherine Griebel wrote: Hi Roger Robin, My sincerest wishes go out to you and yours that you will survive and come through this devastating time of physical, mental, emotional and spiritual hard times. I guess it is one day at a time, eh!! For the last two days, it seems that I have been wishing and visualizing rain on you and your fellow countrymen/women a lot--at least once an hour or more. I am just one small voice and/or thought, but I know that I am part of the whole. Thanks Kathy, I think if everyone who accepts the truth of these did the same it would help a lot. I know some are. Often it is the 'still' small voices which think they are puny and alone that move mountains, cheers roger
Re: Personal Security / Insecurity
because I do not contribute in the same amount as say Steve Storch or Lloyd Charles or whoever makes me a lurker and not as worthwhile a contributor as someone else?. Is Hugh Lovel regared as a lurker because he conducts a watching brief on what is going on through the list. Would you classify Greg Willis as a lurker? Hey James - dont know what others think but for me postings from yourself , Hugh, Greg Willis, Glen Atkinson, are some of the cream we get on the list - certainly dont think you guys are lurkers and I agree wholeheartedly eith your next sentence To categorise a list member on the basis of how much they contribute and what they say demeans the value of any contribution to the list. It seems that Lloyd keeps on with the same message on his weed control methods without very much comment or discussion of the pro's and con's of his methods. Do you mean here that I am on the wrong track with this or that it should be drawing more discussion from the list? Cheers Lloyd Charles
LURKING was Re: Personal Security / Insecurity
To categorise a list member on the basis of how much they contribute and what they say demeans the value of any contribution to the list. James, Lloyd, et al -- I realize this discussion morphed somewhat, but I'm sad to see that it has taken a turn that has disturbed some people. I'd like to get the discussion back on it's original focus. The original reason 'lurking' was brought up under the 'personal security' topic is because there are many people who lurk on bd now because they do not want their posts to be preserved forever in public arhives. It was suggested that we make the archives private so that people who currently lurk on bd now feel comfortable in sharing their experiences with members of the group. This topic has brought forth much discussion, but I have seen little compassion for the members of BD NOW!, many of them long time members, who feel that it is inappropriate for them to speak their hearts or their experiences into such a public forum. Or those who feel that archives lack context and nuance and therefore contribute misunderstanding if not spritzed with a fair amount of contemporary commentary. Secondary to this, it has been mentioned that public archives encourage what could be called 'extreme lurking,' which are people who approach this group in a very high handed way. They want what we have to share, but they do not want to join with us. While we can hope that they, too, are using biodynamics somewhere, they do little to further the community's knowledge by sharing their experiences or sharing their questions. I for one feel that bd now is like an Iroquois community soup: take all you want, but, please, while you are partaking, be thinking of what YOU can put back in the big pot for the rest of the community While by no means do I want to encourage sharing without content (questions are full of potential content!), it is important that this forum be designed to encourage participation. Unfortunately, those who cannot speak will not speak, so most of you on this list cannot appreciate the lost resources that I encounter in person. This reminds me of a class a government worker friend of mine took. This was a class in some sort of office psychology. They did a personality inventory and learned who were introverts and who were extroverts and then divided the class accordingly. With a little discussion, it was discovered that, as a group, the extroverts were very suspicious introverts and, on the whole, did not like any of them. The introverts, it appears, felt much the same about the extroverts, but probably more annoyed than suspicious. Then the instructor asked the extroverts to say all they wanted about the introverts, and discussion went on for about an hour, with the instructor saying It's ok, introverts, you'll get your chance next! When it came the introverts time to rag on the extorverts, however, noone said a word. In fact, the bulk of the introverts called in sick the rest of the week. Even when the introvert case is stated clearly, it's truest ramifications are overlooked by the typical extrovert. Used to be, say, around WWII, considered that extroversion was the height of health. Now I believe that psychology allows that introversion is a valid personality type, capable of being healthy within its own parameters and capable of accomplishing, within their own spheres of expertise, as much as extroverts. In extrovert dominated discussion, however, one would never realize that. ;-) So, I say again: members of this group are uncomfortable with the format of this group. Rather than appealing to the highest human principles, as this discussion seems to tended towards, can we consider putting Patrick Henry away and have more empathy for those among us who feel uncomfortable with public archives?
Re: Lungworm problem
Diana - It would help to know if the afflicted animal has had a fecal exam/diagnosis. Thanks -Allan
Re: LURKING was Re: Personal Security / Insecurity
Allan, The original reason 'lurking' was brought up under the 'personal security' topic is because there are many people who lurk on bd now because they do not want their posts to be preserved forever in public arhives. Just to chime in, that is an issue for me. I don't like that people (say prospective employers) can search the web for my name and find my posts to BDNOW. I hate to have to deny my interests, but I am a scientist right now so BD is not my professional public face. Chris __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com
RE: Monsanto submitted its petition for comm. of GE Wheat/ now Grass too
Monsanto submitted its petition for comm. of GE Wheat... Merla Hello all, I wasn't able to participate in the GE wheat thread. I got this from the Pesticide Action Network last week on GE Grass. A shame that we need to use and rely on the courts to bring awareness and halt introductionof GE plants. I think GE Grass will have an even bigger impact on the environment than wheat since there is so much more of it However... wheat will have huge long term impacts on wheat producers due to loss of markets from contamination. Perry === P A N U P S Pesticide Action Network Updates Service === USDA Sued to Stop GE Grasses January 15, 2003 Recently, the United States Department of Agriculture (USDA) was sued overits failure to recognize the dangers associated with grasses geneticallyengineered to be resistant to herbicides. On January 8, 2003, theInternational Center for Technology Assessment (CTA) and the Center for FoodSafety sued USDA arguing that creeping bentgrass and Kentucky bluegrass,both of which are being engineered to resist Roundup (glyphosate), arealready serious problems in some natural areas and would become "superweeds" if herbicide resistance was built in. Monsanto, maker of Roundup, andScotts Company, a home garden and pesticide products company, have asked forUSDA approval to commercialize a genetically engineered (GE) variety ofcreeping bentgrass popular for golf course greens and commercial andresidential lawns. Once released into the environment, the herbicide tolerant grasses couldproliferate at will. Because gasses are wind-pollinated species with pollenthat blows for hundreds of yards, they hybridize easily. Some species' seedscan remain viable for 10 to 15 years. Turfgrasses are ubiquitous in and nearalmost every type of habitat in which the U.S. populace lives, works andplays, including an estimated 40,000,000 residential lawns and parks, atleast 40,000 athletic facilities, more than 17,000 golf courses, andcountless other landscapes where they have been planted or invaded on theirown. CTA's complaint termed the GE grasses "a unique, man-made form ofbiological pollution" with the potential to both out-compete native grassesand genetically pollute native vegetation. Concerned about the risks ofbiotech super weeds, CTA petitioned USDA in July 2002 to list geneticallyengineered varieties of these grasses as "noxious weeds." Instead, sincelast July, the agency has continued to allow open-field testing of theRoundup resistant grasses on approximately 100 acres in 15 states. Turfgrass is the second largest seed market in the United States afterhybrid corn, with annual sales estimated between US$580 million and US$1.2billion. The U.S. turfgrass seed export market amounts to US$70 million peryear. Scotts Company executives are reported to believe the eventual marketfor GE lawn products will reach US$10 billion. Prominent organizations including the American Society of LandscapeArchitects (more than 14,000 members nationally), the Foundation on EconomicTrends and The Nature Conservancy (the largest holder of private landpreserves in the world) have also submitted comments to USDA urging amoratorium on release of GE turfgrasses. "Biotech grasses represent a very real environmental and economic threatto communities and natural areas throughout the country," said CTA ExecutiveDirector Andrew Kimbrell. "Going to court was the only way to ensure thatthese "'super weeds" are not released into our neighborhoods." According to CTA, beyond their impacts as weeds, other potential impactsof GE herbicide resistant grass include: ** increased glyphosate use, misuse, and resultant foreseeable chemicalpollution, damage and injuries; the very purpose of the product being toallow turfgrass managers and landowners of all types to spray more Roundupweed killer on a broadcast rather than a spot basis; ** increased glyphosate resistance in weeds such that they will be moreharmful in the future; as more and more glyphosate is sprayed the selectionpressure on weeds to develop resistance will increase (see PANUPS, 12/20/02http://www.panna.org/resources/panups/panup_20021220.dv.html ); ** economic harm due to genetic contamination of fields of non-GEturfgrasses intended for conventional markets, and the necessity for theimpacted turfgrass farmers to use more expensive, environmentally damaging,and even more dangerous herbicides instead of glyphosate to kill GEinfestations; and ** economic harm to organic farmers near any GE grass plantings because ofthe increased presence of adventitious GE materials in their crops and thepotential for increased herbicide contamination, both of which are rejectedby premium markets for organic products. Sources: Press Release, International Center for Technology Assessment the Center for food Safety, Lawsuit Filed Against USDA to
FW: [globalnews] Spiritual Insight: Use It or Lose It
Title: FW: [globalnews] Spiritual Insight: Use It or Lose It NOETIC ENERGY Man is not meant to propitiate elementals or mechanically perform rituals, but rather to elevate self-consciousness and establish a proper relation with divine ideas. As with the development of any faculty, the greater the exercise, the easier it will become. If one is truly serious about maturing spiritually and gaining the cool confidence to constitute oneself a chela, then one must concentrate and incarnate sacred teachings without idle and futile speculation about one's abilities and prospects. Ability inevitably grows with application, and with it the will to further application. In time, as psychospiritual centres gradually awaken in their natural and proportional order, one will be prepared to deal with higher levels of noetic energy. In order to hold, preserve and extend them, one will have to withdraw the mind repeatedly from the proclivities and delusions of the persona. In this way noetic insight will emerge, even if imperfectly mirrored on the plane of the phrenic and the psychic. One cannot leap immediately to the pure apprehension of Nous, but one may assuredly move in that direction in waking life. As one sincerely tries, unexpected and unsought help will come in a variety of ways, enabling one to see profounder and more numinous meanings as veil upon veil is lifted. The more one uses what one knows, the more meaning will come to one's aid, with a greater continuity of ardent aspiration. RAGHAVAN IYER .. Inner speed, outer caution; inner caution, outer speed --Words of Wisdom From the Great Caduceator
FW: The Importance of Twilight, Related to the Pisces-Virgo Axisand Liminal Consciousness
Title: FW: The Importance of Twilight, Related to the Pisces-Virgo Axis and Liminal Consciousness This post below from Curtis speaks to some of what Mary Stewart Adams wrote in War, Mars the Divine Feminine (forwarded by the other Jane on this list [via Storch] posted on Nov. 21 subject: Mars in its current cycle). Heres an excerpt from that post: With Mars movement through the heavens during the next two years we are afforded an opportunity to find a new way of responding to these events by aligning ourselves to the Pisces-Virgo axis of the zodiac, the abode of the Divine Sophia, the realm of the threshold. We are challenged, we could say, to guide the Mars forces of war and conflict along the way of healing and compassion. This transformation of the Mars impulse requires the effort of the human being, for this transformation of planetary impulses must happen within the human being. We are helped to understanding our role in this by the following words of Rudolf Steiner: Stars once spoke to humanity It is world destiny they are silent now. To be aware of this silence Can be pain for earthly humanity But in this silence There grows and ripens What humanity speaks to the stars To be aware of this speaking Can be strength for Spirit Man.[iii] mhtml:mid://0023/#_edn3 It is appropriate to consider Mars specifically in this context, for we know that Mars, in addition to being the planet of war and aggression, is also the planet of speech. As war and talk of war rages around us, we might ask: what is it we would speak to the stars at this time, how do we do this, and how is this individual activity transformative for society at large? When we try to answer these questions, we actually engage with the Sophia, the divine feminine, for it is the activity of the Sophia that allows us to see through world events and find the solution to begin with, not in outer activity, but by inner vision. Sophia is the wisdom that sees through the world and enables man to comprehend the world.[iv] mhtml:mid://0023/#_edn4 In this we must bear in mind that the first phase of Earth evolution was marked by greater consciousness in the physical world and was guided by Mars. The task of our time, however, entails the conquest of the spiritual world and is guided by the impulses of the planet Mercury, ruler of Virgo, constellation of the divine feminine. Thus, our efforts to speak back to the stars entail our working together with the being of Sophia, in order to transform the Mars impulses of physical conquest into an inner activity of spiritual discovery, conscience and transformation. -- Forwarded Message From: Curtis Lang [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 10:40:11 -0500 To: Jane Sherry [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: The Importance of Twilight, Related to the Pisces-Virgo Axis and Liminal Consciousness THE HOUR OF TWILIGHT For the future we intend that at this hour the Mystic shall be at home, less metaphysical and scientific than is his wont, but more really himself. It is customary at this hour, before the lamps are brought in, to give way a little and dream, letting all the tender fancies day suppresses rise up in our minds. Wherever it is spent, whether in the dusky room or walking home through the blue evening, all things grow strangely softened and united; the magic of the old world reappears. The commonplace streets take on something of the grandeur and solemnity of starlit avenues of Egyptian temples; the public squares in the mingled glow and gloom grow beautiful as the Indian grove where Sakuntala wandered with her maidens; the children chase each other through the dusky shrubberies; as they flee past they look at us with long remembered glances: lulled by the silence, we forget a little while the hard edges of the material and remember that we are spirits. Now is the hour for memory, the time to call in and make more securely our own all stray and beautiful ideas that visited us during the day, and which might otherwise be forgotten. We should draw them in from the region of things felt to the region of things understood; in a focus burning with beauty and pure with truth we should bind them, for from the thoughts thus gathered in something accrues to the consciousness; on the morrow a change impalpable but real has taken place in our being, we see beauty and truth through everything. It is in like manner in Devachan, between the darkness of earth and the light of spiritual self-consciousness, that the Master in each of us draws in and absorbs the rarest and best of experiences, love, self-forgetfulness, aspiration, and out of these distils the subtle essence of wisdom, so that he who struggles in pain for his fellows, when he wakens again on earth is endowed with the tradition of that which we call self sacrifice, but which is in reality the proclamation of our own universal nature. There are yet vaster correspondences, for so also we are told,
Re: LURKING was Re: Personal Security / Insecurity
Is it possible that if potential employers would hold your personal beliefs and interests/hobbies against you that perhaps you wouldn't want to work for such people? And if they would use such measures as checking you out in a search engine and then judging you on such information instead of your merits as a scientist, then perhaps they would not be a good employer? Just my two cents, Jane S. From: Chris Shade [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 09:16:13 -0800 (PST) To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: LURKING was Re: Personal Security / Insecurity Allan, The original reason 'lurking' was brought up under the 'personal security' topic is because there are many people who lurk on bd now because they do not want their posts to be preserved forever in public arhives. Just to chime in, that is an issue for me. I don't like that people (say prospective employers) can search the web for my name and find my posts to BDNOW. I hate to have to deny my interests, but I am a scientist right now so BD is not my professional public face. Chris
Re: LURKING was Re: Personal Security / Insecurity
Is it possible that if potential employers would hold your personal beliefs and interests/hobbies against you that perhaps you wouldn't want to work for such people? And if they would use such measures as checking you out in a search engine and then judging you on such information instead of your merits as a scientist, then perhaps they would not be a good employer? Just my two cents, Jane S. No offense, Jane, but such considerations hold little water in many ares of the country where jobs are at a premium. One accepts that one must make compromises and work with people who one would not, for example, live with. The secret to survival, of course, is to keep your ideas to yourself. (Or, as I found out at one good paying job a dozen years back, keep you lunch to yourself! At that time seaweed filled miso soup was enough to cause problems among the middle Americans.)) Me thinks, Jane, per chance you have no idea what the rest of us go through. For you non-US folks, you probably have no idea of the level of total conformity that's expected here in the states. -Allan
Re: Lungworm problem
Dear Bruno: I wonder if you or other members of the BD Forum have had other experiences with dustings with diatomaceous earth. Thanks a lot, Luis R. Calzadilla [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, January 18, 2003 11:07 AM Subject: Re: Lungworm problem Try a generous dusting with diatomaceous earth, also add to feed...sstorch
New: The Soil Foodweb Multi-Media CD
Here is a resource that is now available. The Soil Foodweb Multi-Media CD Featuring slides and video from Dr. Elaine Ingham. $44.95 *Multi-media presentation on Soil Foodweb *Slide collection in medium resolution jpg images *Slide legend *Movie clips *Interactive self-learning slide presentation for PC users Elaine Ingham worked with Sam Ettaro with Unisun communications for a couple of years, and one of the products that resulted was this multi-media CD on the soil foodweb. This is the CD that features the slides from a study that demonstrated botrytis disease suppression on grape leaves when compost teas had 100% and 70% leaf surface, at the same time botrytis was applied at 70% leaf coverage. The grape leaves remained healthy. In contrast, when compost teas covered 50% and 10% of the leaf surface, botrytis infection was obvious. Sam is now in Pennsylvania with a multi-media business called Harmony Central. Harmony Central 806 Daisy St. Clearfield, PA 16830 814-768-9489 Local 866-470-0740 Toll-Free 814-768-7202 Fax [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.harmonycentral.org In addition, Harmony Central is the distributor for Elaine Ingham's audio CD's. Audio CD's in Soil Foodweb Series Volume 1: An Introduction to the Soil Foodweb - 2 CD Set - $9.00 Volume 2: A Plant Production Overview - 2 CD Set - $9.00 Volume 3: Turf Systems - 2 CD Set (EcoPak) - $7.00 Volume 4: The Compost Foodweb - 2 CD Set - $13.95 As a bonus, the The Soil Foodweb Multi-Media CD at $44.95 is now being shipped with Volume 2 in the Audio CD series, Plant Production Overview. This is a resource pointer, add this item to your Soil Foodweb + Humus Management Toolbox. Regards, Steve Diver
Noted CSA Advocate, Steven McFadden to Speak Thursday evening,Jan. 30 at Longevity Cafe, in Santa Fe, NM, USA
Santa Fe's Land, Farms and Families: Steps Toward Environmental and Economic Renewal Santa Fe could readily establish environmental oases on open land, use water wisely, and provide both good jobs and fresh, clean food for its families and households, says local writer Steven McFadden. The co-author of the book Farms of Tomorrow Revisited which has helped spark nearly 1,000 community farms across America, McFadden will explore these themes on Thursday evening, Jan. 30 at Longevity Cafe, 112 W. San Francisco St., Santa Fe. The talk is free. The Santa Fe journalist - author of six other non-fiction books - says the foundation of America's future is being laid right now, and Santa Fe has a golden opportunity. He wants to share the concept of community supported agriculture (CSA) with the citizens of Santa Fe, so they can begin to actively consider how community farms could bring multiple benefits to the land and the people. No matter what kind of civilization lies ahead of us, McFadden says, it will be built upon farms. No culture, no technology, no larger spiritual advancement of humanity can occur without healthy, thriving farms as a sound base. Yet via industrialization, chemical fertilizers and pesticides, genetic experimentation, and economic pressures our foundation is rapidly mutating into something ugly and unsustainable. Government will not face these problems, McFadden said. It's up to the citizens. With economic uncertainty and war looming, now is the time to reflect carefully on the kind of agricultural foundation we are establishing for ourselves, our children and our children's children. With co-author Trauger Groh, McFadden explored the possibilities for agricultural and social renewal in a 1990 book entitled Farms of Tomorrow. At that time there were about 60 community-supported farms (CSAs) in America. While the US lost more than 300,000 general farms through the 1990s, CSAs grew. There are now over 1,000 CSA farms in America, involving over 100,000 households. Noting the steady growth of CSA farms, McFadden and Groh returned to the subject eight years later to write Farms of Tomorrow Revisited (1998). The free talk at Longevity Cafe will start at 7 PM., on Wednesday, February 6, 2003. For information see the schedule page at http://www.chiron-communications.com, or at http://www.LongevityCafe. - 30 - Farms of Tomorrow Revisited is published by the Biodynamic Farming and Gardening Assoc. (1-888-516-7797), and distributed by Chelsea Green, Inc. (1-800-639-4099). Steven McFadden Chiron Communications 7 Avenida Vista Grande #195, Santa Fe, NM 87508 505-248-8444 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.chiron-communications.com
Re: LURKING was Re: Personal Security / Insecurity
Allan - Silence is complicity, as the saying goes. You present your views as though they are views that everyone should share and that, if someone doesn't share them, they either just don't understand (as in what you said below to Jane), or they are just plain unenlightened. It is fine that you hold your views, Allan. Listen, also, however, to those who have made the choice to speak out, or to step forward, and respect them for their choices. In my profession, the party line is to support people/clients/patients taking psychotropic medications. I absolutely disagree with that, 99% of the time. It is not politically correct to disagree with the party line, but I do, and everyone knows it, I suffer a bit in lowered popularity with traditional colleagues, but I've always had a thriving practice. I'm also an insurance provider, and the utilization review clinicians know how I feel about psychotropic meds. I don't talk about the issue in radical ways with those folk, but I don't conceal my views at all. I do believe that now, more than ever, it is essential to stand up for one's beliefs, to talk respectfully with others about those beliefs, and to try to change the avalanche of unconsciousness. Otherwise, one's life is this secret, hidden, fear-ridden event. Best to you, Essie At 02:45 PM 01/20/2003 -0500, you wrote: Is it possible that if potential employers would hold your personal beliefs and interests/hobbies against you that perhaps you wouldn't want to work for such people? And if they would use such measures as checking you out in a search engine and then judging you on such information instead of your merits as a scientist, then perhaps they would not be a good employer? Just my two cents, Jane S. No offense, Jane, but such considerations hold little water in many ares of the country where jobs are at a premium. One accepts that one must make compromises and work with people who one would not, for example, live with. The secret to survival, of course, is to keep your ideas to yourself. (Or, as I found out at one good paying job a dozen years back, keep you lunch to yourself! At that time seaweed filled miso soup was enough to cause problems among the middle Americans.)) Me thinks, Jane, per chance you have no idea what the rest of us go through. For you non-US folks, you probably have no idea of the level of total conformity that's expected here in the states. -Allan
Re: New: The Soil Foodweb Multi-Media CD
Steve - Do you have dates on these presentations? Are these the 'old' CDs or are they a new series. It was interesting. Last year at ACRES Elaine was hawking CDs. This year she wasn't doing that at either my confernece or ACRES. New stuff or old stuff? Thanks -Allan
Re: New: The Soil Foodweb Multi-Media CD
I understand it like this. The Audio CD's mentioned are the original ones, and therefore same as anything you've seen before, and therefore old. Yet, The Soil Foodweb Multi-Media CD is new as far as being available for sale. It was in production and on-hold while business dealings between SFI and Unisun smoothed out. Now it is available. I waited a long time for this CD and I cherish my copy. Harmony Central is handling these, they are available, that's the main point. Steve Diver Steve - Do you have dates on these presentations? Are these the 'old' CDs or are they a new series. It was interesting. Last year at ACRES Elaine was hawking CDs. This year she wasn't doing that at either my confernece or ACRES. New stuff or old stuff?
Re: LURKING was Re: Personal Security / Insecurity
Listen, also, however, to those who have made the choice to speak out, or to step forward, and respect them for their choices. Essie - How do you suggest BD NOW! could provide for the above while respecting the wishes of those who would like to do their good works outside of the public eye? Would like to hear your plan. thanks -Allan
Re: LURKING was Re: Personal Security / Insecurity
I realize this discussion morphed somewhat, but I'm sad to see that it has taken a turn that has disturbed some people. I'd like to get the discussion back on it's original focus. The original reason 'lurking' was brought up under the 'personal security' topic is because there are many people who lurk on bd now because they do not want their posts to be preserved forever in public arhives. It was suggested that we make the archives private so that people who currently lurk on bd now feel comfortable in sharing their experiences with members of the group. Allan I agreed with you when you raised this originally - still do - also believe that it can easily be done in a manner that causes very little (if any) inconvenience to any of us (including most of the lurkers) Cheers Lloyd Charles
Re: LURKING was Re: Personal Security / Insecurity
Whatever that means. From: Allan Balliett [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 14:45:42 -0500 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: LURKING was Re: Personal Security / Insecurity Me thinks, Jane, per chance you have no idea what the rest of us go through.
Re: LURKING was Re: Personal Security / Insecurity
Thank you for writing more eloquently what I felt about this thread, Essie! Blessings, Jane From: Essie Hull [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 16:02:51 -0500 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: LURKING was Re: Personal Security / Insecurity I do believe that now, more than ever, it is essential to stand up for one's beliefs, to talk respectfully with others about those beliefs, and to try to change the avalanche of unconsciousness. Otherwise, one's life is this secret, hidden, fear-ridden event.
Re: LURKING was Re: Personal Security / Insecurity
- Original Message Jane Sherry Re: LURKING was Re: Personal Security / Insecurity Is it possible that if potential employers would hold your personal beliefs and interests/hobbies against you that perhaps you wouldn't want to work for such people? And if they would use such measures as checking you out in a search engine and then judging you on such information instead of your merits as a scientist, then perhaps they would not be a good employer? Just my two cents, Jane S. Hi Jane I've defended you solidly a couple of times - maybe you'll forgive me for saying I think you're out of touch with reality on this! Most of us dont have the luxury of these choices. ' walk a mile in my shoes' Cheers Lloyd Charles
so true, so true
Allan (and Chris) are right. This very thing happened a few weeks ago. Someone forwarded me a lengthy message about how we all should boycott McDonald's restaurant chain because they're importing beef, not using our own US cattle, etc. The post was, by all appearances, signed by Dr. David Forester of our own Texas AM University. I was very surprised he'd lend his name to something this flammatory, so I wrote in private, asking about his findings. He said definitely NOT! That he received the email and checked into it, finding that McDonalds, like all other fast food chains DO use imported beef, but the USDA regulates how many cattle can be imported, it's not up to the individual company. And went on to cite all the vast amounts of product McDonald's does consume annually, produced here in the US. The Vice President of McDonald's himself had sent Dr. David a counter claim stating those facts. (I was sent both letters also.) NOW, I don't utilize this food chain, and do not condone the factory farms that supply the beef, milk, eggs, chicken, nor the stupendous amounts of gene altered crops that go into the wheat, corn, other cereal grains that McDonald's depends on to 'feed the nation'. SO DON'T GET YOUR KNICKERS IN A KNOT OVER THE CONTENT HERE.. But this poor doctor will go down in history saying something he didn't say, against possibly the very university that is partly supported by funding from transgenic research and development groups. So, in effect, by asking for further proof, or wanting more information, he very wellmay have cut his own career throat. martha
Re: LURKING was Re: Personal Security / Insecurity
Oh, if only. Peace, Chris --- Jane Sherry [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is it possible that if potential employers would hold your personal beliefs and interests/hobbies against you that perhaps you wouldn't want to work for such people? And if they would use such measures as checking you out in a search engine and then judging you on such information instead of your merits as a scientist, then perhaps they would not be a good employer? Just my two cents, Jane S. From: Chris Shade [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 09:16:13 -0800 (PST) To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: LURKING was Re: Personal Security / Insecurity Allan, The original reason 'lurking' was brought up under the 'personal security' topic is because there are many people who lurk on bd now because they do not want their posts to be preserved forever in public arhives. Just to chime in, that is an issue for me. I don't like that people (say prospective employers) can search the web for my name and find my posts to BDNOW. I hate to have to deny my interests, but I am a scientist right now so BD is not my professional public face. Chris __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com
Re: LURKING was Re: Personal Security / Insecurity
Seems to me that the issue could only be resolved by a vote and I do not know how that could be implemented. I think that the preference for either protecting the archives or leaving them in the public domain comes down to one's personal value system. There are many idealists among bd-people, for whom the awareness of the wider social implications of following a bd-worldview and its political aspects and potential consequences in terms of political change is as natural as the practical art and craft of growing bio-dynamically. And these idealistically minded people value abstract notions of freedom of speech and standing up for one's beliefs very highly; it is part of their self-esteem to give that value priority. Other bd-minded people are more interested in the arts and crafts of bio-dynamics, and while they also value the abstract idealistic aspects, they don't give them as high a priority in the value system. The stance we take, what is important to us has a lot to do with our personalities. There is no right or wrong. Because of our different ways of thinking we contribute differently and that's good. So, I think, to repeat, because we are so different and this is a fundamental attitude/value issue, it can only be solved by a democratic vote for yes or no to protect the archives. I agree with the reasoning of the idealistic camp for lots of reasons, most of them have been already put forward. I understand also the concerns that lead to the desire to protect the archives and agree with some of them.Whatever the arguments, however, in the end it comes down for me to a value judgment of what is most important to me. And that is: don't conform and be silenced out of fear of being labeled as a certain person or for losing my job. I have contributed very, very little to the list, because I am still learning. So, far I have said nothing in regards to any political issues, although I appreciate them a lot. The reason for this that I am conscious as a newcomer and learner about not to usurp a bd subject list for political issues. But I am happy to write comments on these matters in the future, when they arise, if it is acceptable to this list, to support the politically minded people, because I am profoundly unhappy with the current social and political systems and I think that the philosophies behind organic and bd agriculture are a fantastic guide for changing the world to a more humane system or way of being, if you like. Christiane
Re: LURKING was Re: Personal Security / Insecurity
Whatever that means. From: Allan Balliett [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 14:45:42 -0500 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: LURKING was Re: Personal Security / Insecurity Me thinks, Jane, per chance you have no idea what the rest of us go through. Excellent response!! -Allan
Re: What do we have to LOSE/GAIN Re: LURKING was Re: Personal Security / Ins...
In a message dated 1/20/2003 4:54:56 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: For goodness sakes (another cliché, maybe more useful than 2 cents) why bother having any beliefs at all if you are going to cower in silence every time you are tested? Money is not the only issue here. It's what can you live with? I don¹t' think I want to compromise my ideals or silence myself out of fear. Out of respect, openness, curiosity, these would make more sense, but silence out of fear, seems to go against all the other spiritual principles espoused on this list. Respectfully, Jane Hello Jane. you are obviously a thoughtful and opinionated soul who sees the urgencey for the healing change and paradigm shifting needed now before we make this planet spiritually un-inhabitable. So I say speak your mind and be an activist for that change that you strive for. And post your thoughts in public forums across this and other lands. And keep posting here as a contributor to a gathering conversation that involves the business of creating that change through a gardening and farming that is healing to the earth and human beings. Other people have different opinions than you about speaking within this forum while it is so easily accessible. Some, as I, have posted reasons other than fear of public retribution for making it more private. It is my opinion that fear should not determine closing this group in the way described. I also see this as a kind of working group that has profound and generous considerations outside the technical aspects of farming. This gives a spiritual charge and a sense of purpose to the noble activity we strive for. If others will feel more comfortable contributing to this developing intimacy we will all benifit. Our work beyond all talk will also be better informed. Talk is not cheap but it doesn't have the same value for change as the farming we seek to do. This forum Isn't in the end to me a soap box but a conversation. I don't know about you but my conversations held with some level of privacy whether in a group or with a friend are far more significant when some parameters are reached with an un-involved public space. jeff
lurking...security
Hi all Understanding whole-heartedly what the Americans face, I'm in agreeance with Frank, James, Barbara and Jane. When reading the posts on this topic, duality is what keeps springing up. This to me emphasis the times we are in and how the 2 sides are needing to be brought together. Unsure if this duality stems from when DesCartes arrived on the scene, which removed us from what was being observed, rather than being a part of. To me the times we live in are about bringing the whole individual together. If a prospective employer rejects you, due to something written on this link, what you eat, or cosmic or spiritual beliefs so be it. Hopefully something you said or did will stop and make them think, feel or look at things differently, if only for a moment. The fears and insecurities of others will not stop me from voicing or being myself,(not necessarily in an extroverted manner) be it here on this link, in the lecture hall or to possible employers. My beliefs and values are far more important to living my truth than any dollar will ever be. Whether I'm judged a witch by some or a lurker by others makes no difference to me. If this link went underground we would be stifling the link that 2000+ / wk tap into. Research in this area is indicating that the minority (us) is now growing at a rapid rate, should we not nurture and feed rather than be silenced? LL Liz
was Canberra wildfires / Orgone-like squiggles
Am visualizing orgone-like squiggles as best as I can recall SteveStorch's description of them some time back. Thanks for bringing this up Lily, I've been wanting to ask sstorch about these. For months I have been witnessing squiggles, only in the early morning. They have not been visible the last few weeks, and I am interested to learn more about them. The squiggles usually stream in from the North on approx. a 45 degree angle. They are most visible at dawn and continue after the sun comes up, but begin to fade in brightness as the sun rises. There is a tiny tip of white/bluish light which lengthens into a thread like squiggle which range in size from an inch to approx. 4. They are numerous and move at a rapid rate. The intensity of light and numbers are greater in times before and after moisture, this including cloud cover. The last few weeks here have been beyond parched, and try as I might, I am not seeing any squiggles. We've had dust storms and smoke haze, but the squiggles were not noticeable for about a week before these were in the atmosphere. Are these what you were referring to sstorch and is it orgone that I would search? LL Liz
Re: so true, so true
Where is the beef being imported FROM? That is important to some. Michael - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, January 20, 2003 2:36 PM Subject: so true, so true Allan (and Chris) are right. This very thing happened a few weeks ago. Someone forwarded me a lengthy message about how we all should boycott McDonald's restaurant chain because they're importing beef, not using our own US cattle, etc. The post was, by all appearances, signed by Dr. David Forester of our own Texas AM University. I was very surprised he'd lend his name to something this flammatory, so I wrote in private, asking about his findings. He said definitely NOT! That he received the email and checked into it, finding that McDonalds, like all other fast food chains DO use imported beef, but the USDA regulates how many cattle can be imported, it's not up to the individual company. And went on to cite all the vast amounts of product McDonald's does consume annually, produced here in the US. The Vice President of McDonald's himself had sent Dr. David a counter claim stating those facts. (I was sent both letters also.) NOW, I don't utilize this food chain, and do not condone the factory farms that supply the beef, milk, eggs, chicken, nor the stupendous amounts of gene altered crops that go into the wheat, corn, other cereal grains that McDonald's depends on to 'feed the nation'. SO DON'T GET YOUR KNICKERS IN A KNOT OVER THE CONTENT HERE.. But this poor doctor will go down in history saying something he didn't say, against possibly the very university that is partly supported by funding from transgenic research and development groups. So, in effect, by asking for further proof, or wanting more information, he very wellmay have cut his own career throat. martha
Swallowing a cat if you have a mouse inside
I wonder if you or other members of the BD Forum have had other experiences with dustings with diatomaceous earth. Try a generous dusting with diatomaceous earth, also add to feed.. Dusting or feeding DE to animals is a great way to give yourself (and other innocent victims) in the barn or stable LUNG CANCER. It is just like inhaling tiny slivers of glass, e.g. SILICOSIS. Clouds of it fly up whenever you walk through or move livestock. A coughing animal dusted with or fed DE is going to cough even more. I never treat coughing animals for lungworms unless they have lungworms. The only way to diagnose them is with repeated fecal exam. The eggs are most prolific on a waxing moon as close to full as possible. The CBC will often show an elevated eosinophil count if there is any sort of parasite (also with allergies) but it is yet another way to help confirm the diagnosis. Alternative practictioners can use the pendulum or other techniques of dousing for parasite detection. Since farmers can now purchase most over-the-counter wormers they are worse than vets in general. The farmer motto where I live: If some is good, more is better. Fear is what sells pesticides and wormers. It's the blame the germ syndrome. if parasites truly exist the holistic cure is correcting the diet and mineral balance. Providing biodiversity in the browse allows animals to medicate themselves. Depriving them of their natural pharmacy is cruel. Herbal medicine has a raft of good paraciticidals. Will Winter
Re: Swallowing a cat if you have a mouse inside
DE is one of those things that are often recommended, but seldom endorsed through experience. I've dusted a lot of crops with DE back in the early days, mostly for slugs. I don't think I EVER felt that it actually worked, if dusted, or even if put into (very expensive!) dykes around at-risk vegetables. I've heard realiable sources say that a few pounds of DE in a grainery will cure a meal worm problem. But reliable sources still recommend it for slugs, also. I've never felt comfortable feeding it to livestock for exactly the reasons that it is supposed to work. Gosh, what are the upper and lower portions of the digestive system than enlargement of the basic worm? Thanks, Will -Allan
Imported Beef was Re: so true, so true
Michael Roboz asked: Where is the beef being imported FROM? That is important to some. Michael - Original Message -
Re: lurking...security
- Original Message - From: Liz Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 11:13 AM Subject: lurking...security Hi Liz, James, Jane et al. I think we've gotten many miles away from what this discussion should be about. I thought Allan's original intent was to do something with the archives that would encourage a deeper and more meaningful debate on the list, to make some of the posters of more serious and controversial material a little more comfortable saying what they really meant! Putting password protection on the archives will have absolutely zero effect on any of our access to it, nor should it deter ANY person that has any kind of genuine interest in obtaining information from the BD now list . Its a simple matter to get connected to BDNOW then go troll the archive. The only people who would be affected are the busybody cruisers that are there either by accident or to cause mischief. Using a password wont send the list underground! and was'nt the purpose of the original idea to improve and enliven the participation and debate. Certainly not a case of silencing anybody! Lastly how many of those 2000 plus hits are accidental hits coming from google searches for purposes other than interest in the list?? Cheers all Lloyd Charles
Re: LURKING was Re: Personal Security / Insecurity
Allan, Why do you persist in your fear mongering with this thread? What makes you think that your one experience of losing a job offering based upon one experience of someone looking up your track record on the internet is a common one to be experienced by folks contributing to this list? How many people are really out there scanning these records for inflammatory remarks made on a bd ag list? There is so much information overload, the government can't even find real terrorists, let alone the threat of someone putting some shit in a cow horn and spraying it homeopathically on a field somewhere. Get real will you? All your inuendo about me being out of touch with reality is really too typical Allan. You are your own worst enemy, not the government or some stupid bureaucrat denying you a job. I have quit jobs before because of my so called ideals. Does this make me an idealist? I think it is your attitude which probably is what loses jobs for you and not some nonsense found in a search engine. Besides, as you yourself pointed out, it doesn't matter what you really say online, someone can find you associated with views that are the opposite of what yours truly are. So what is the point of password protected archives? I suspect that if you were to put this whole group into a room together, the voices most often 'heard' on this list would be the same ones to speak most often in that room in person. Jane PS: Put your name into google, Allan, it's not very interesting. How far down do you think they'll dig into the archives to 'get' something on you? I think your attitude is far more dangerous than anything I've ever heard you say or write. From: Allan Balliett [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 19:05:21 -0500 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: LURKING was Re: Personal Security / Insecurity Whatever that means. From: Allan Balliett [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 14:45:42 -0500 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: LURKING was Re: Personal Security / Insecurity Me thinks, Jane, per chance you have no idea what the rest of us go through. Excellent response!! -Allan
Re: lurking...security
I endorse Liz's post in its entirety. The reason for this about-face is very simple. I was so frightened last Saturday you would hardly believe it, and that was without facing the horror experienced by people who live in (and in some cases behind) the 'bushland' suburbs. It has been very difficult to grasp the enormity of the destruction in Duffy and suburbs next to and behind it, most of it caused by fireballs believed to have been generated when a softwood plantation in the path of a firestorm driven by galeforce winds exploded. Fireballs which vaulted up to 5 kilometres at a time in unpredictable directions, destroying several homes at each impact. Cars too. I have not been right to the edge of the abyss this time but I've been close enough to re-evaulate my position on a lot of things and make a few changes . Liz is right, it is our beliefs and values that are important - indeed, I would say vitally important - to us and so is their communication to anyone and everyone who might be interested, and for whatever reason. So I say keep this link out in the open for all to see regardless of any consequences. Also please let us drop the terms 'lurk' and 'lurking' which have such sinister connotations. Roger Liz Davis wrote: The fears and insecurities of others will not stop me from voicing or being myself, . . . My beliefs and values are far more important to living my truth than any dollar will ever be. Whether I'm judged a witch by some or a lurker by others makes no difference to me. If this link went underground we would be stifling the link that 2000+ / wk tap into. Research in this area is indicating that the minority (us) is now growing at a rapid rate, should we not nurture and feed rather than be silenced?
Re: was Canberra wildfires / Orgone-like squiggles
Liz: 4? ...at what relative distance? Next time you feel a sneeze coming on, be looking up into the sky,sneeze, and tell what you seemanfred - Original Message - From: Liz Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, January 20, 2003 7:13 PM Subject: was Canberra wildfires / Orgone-like squiggles
Re: lurking...security
Charles wrote: The only people who would be affected are the busybody cruisers that are there either by accident or to cause mischief. How do you stop pepole who want to cause mischief from obtaining a password? What will be the criteria for being eligible for obtaining the password? Christiane
apology Lloyd not Charles
Sorry, Lloyd, to address you by your last name. Didn't mean to, got mixed up. Regards, Christiane
Re: LURKING was Re: Personal Security / Insecurity
Allan and others - It seems to me that as a public we are inundated, force fed with bad works. People who only have the media-driven force feeding for a diet don't know that they have choices, but it is my experience that many people are remarkable when supported, respected and given real information and experiences.. I'm more interested in giving the public some real choices than I am in going underground. I'm more interested in participating in every child and every adult having the choice of eating food that will truly nourish them than I am in keeping the secret of what constitutes good food. I am more interested in assisting my neighbors create gardens in their backyards, gardens built on the foundation of living soil and microbes and energy than I am in just getting healthy myself, or in selling truly good food only to the wealthy. I am more interested in getting people to talk with each other about what is real and true and good than I am in pretending that the drivel that is passed off as truth even comes close to being true. I am more interested in rising up than I am in skulking. We all need to consider that we are teetering on the edge of bigtimeawful, and decide what our place is in that sort of time. Fear seems to drive everyone, and it is my observation that fear distorts our spirit and makes us distinctly unhappy. I don't know how to balance it all, actually. I don't have any issue with those who want to be more private, I guess - but I don't think that going underground keeps anyone safe, and I do think that going underground inhibits the effort and keeps the numbers of the faithful small. I also think that people critical of us doubtlessly think we're deranged, not dangerous. Actually, I did a Google search on Allan Balliett and didn't find anything inflammatory or even remotely negative (possibly I missed something). Best to you, Essie At 04:17 PM 01/20/03 -0500, you wrote: Listen, also, however, to those who have made the choice to speak out, or to step forward, and respect them for their choices. Essie - How do you suggest BD NOW! could provide for the above while respecting the wishes of those who would like to do their good works outside of the public eye? Would like to hear your plan. thanks -Allan
Re: Swallowing a cat if you have a mouse inside
Will Winter wrote: Dusting or feeding DE to animals is a great way to give yourself (and other innocent victims) in the barn or stable LUNG CANCER. It is just like inhaling tiny slivers of glass, e.g. SILICOSIS. Good call, Will! Gil
Re: lurking...security
Liz said: If this link went underground we would be stifling the link that 2000+ / wk tap into. Research in this area is indicating that the minority (us) is now growing at a rapid rate, should we not nurture and feed rather than be silenced? You know, one thing that is evident to most anyone who spends any time on this list: lots of people believe everything they read or believe that something that is in print must be true. I guess that's why there's so much acceptance of information without community. I find information without community to be a dangerous thing. I feel that one major aspect of tradtional agriculture is the re-recognition of the importance of community. This list will never be closed to anyone who is willing to pay as little as giving up their anonymity to register. In this way, information with community is available to anyone who is truly interested. On the other hand, 2000+ hits a week on the archives could be nothing more than continual blind poundings by SPAM crawlers... As far as standing up for my believes at every opportunity or choosing silence over mundane struggle, I feel that words are a lot less important than examples, that the walk is more important than the talk. That's what a lot of us who would prefer to pick our battles are using our energy for: the sort of demonstrations of the validity of these ideas that cause people to be curious about how we do what we do and to ask to learn more. To each his own, but I think, in the long run, practical demonstration over flying the freak flag is the way to gain converts and a valid way of being true to one's own ideals. Lloyd Charles wrote: Lastly how many of those 2000 plus hits are accidental hits coming from google searches for purposes other than interest in the list?? Brilliant insight, Lloyd! -Allan
Re: LURKING was Re: Personal Security / Insecurity
Jane - I really do not understand why my discomfort and the discomfort of others with the way the archives are set up currently is not enough for you. I've chosen to be responsible for the welfare of many. There are 5 other mouths at my table, Jane. Compassion, please. Let me know, ok? Thanks
Re: LURKING was Re: Personal Security / Insecurity
Essie said: I don't know how to balance it all, actually. I don't have any issue with those who want to be more private, I guess - but I don't think that going underground keeps anyone safe, and I do think that going underground inhibits the effort and keeps the numbers of the faithful small. I also think that people critical of us doubtlessly think we're deranged, not dangerous. Actually, I did a Google search on Allan Balliett and didn't find anything inflammatory or even remotely negative (possibly I missed something). The charge, Essie, was 'different world view.' You cannot expect people outside of BD circles to put posts to a BD list into any accurate context. It's not possible, especially for Flatlanders. Again: we are not 'going underground' BD Now! is advertised in several pubications now and, I believe is listed as a resource in a couple of books. If anything, we are working towards more discourse, for more voices. All we are interested in doing is making a practical effort to create an environment in which more people are comfortable in sharing in. I see no reason why this should inhibit anyone who wants to talk to a wider audience cannot x-post to SANET, if that appeals to their Jack Hornerism. In fact, I'm so fed up with this whole discussion that I could offer posters an option of posting individual messages to a public archive or a private archive.
Re: Personal Security / Insecurity
Dear Lloyd, This mail was not personally aimed at you. It derived from a sense of frustration that sometimes the most trite of subjects can keep the list going for weeks, yet when you mail on your techniques, which I think are part of the cutting edge of farming you are scratching to get an answer. somewhere along the line the farming of the future will take the best of all the technologies and synthesise them into a sustainable system. It is interesting that MacDonald's has quite a large war chest to find a sustainable system that is able to gain public confidence in their products, yet still allow for the supply of consistent quality and quantity. How do we as sustainable farmers develop systems that are able to supply enough quantity for even McDonalds, without supplying enough quality food for the general consumer. I suppose it depends where you sit when you view what is going on in farming. My aim is to develop systems that are able to produce quality food with the minimum of input. I personally have gone down the path of putting a lot of faith in development of technology based on agricultural radionics, as you have. A quick back of the hand check on the statistics of compostable materials world wide will show that if we were to rely on conventional organic methods, the world would starve, if it was the only method used. Biodynamics is one of many tools for soil fertility, not the only answer. Steiner supported the work of Eugen and Lili Kolisko on the use of homeopathy in Agriculture, yet when it comes to a discussion ofthe merits or otherwise of this research wer got bogged down in the protocol of how we were to discuss this. End result was that we did not get anywhere. It is not necessary for Agriculture of Tomorrow to be republished when there are many people on this list who have taken the work out of the realm of research and into a practical system that could revolutionise the way that we look at inputs into farming. Where was the replies to the posts about our work with 501 to reinforce the action of peppers? Where are the replies to Greg Willis's comments on the use of homeopathic doses in the Agri-Synthesis system. What about discussion of the implications of the claims by Steve Storch of the different bacteria which develop in compost teas in different moon signs. what are the implications, and what dos it indicate. Let us look at the bigger picture of what we can do together with the knowledge that we have as a group. As long as we consider ourselves weird that is how people will see us. Maybe we can gain some lessons from George Bush, he does not apologise for what he does, he just does it. We don't need to apologise for what we do neither. Regards James - Original Message - From: Lloyd Charles [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, January 20, 2003 11:23 PM Subject: Re: Personal Security / Insecurity because I do not contribute in the same amount as say Steve Storch or Lloyd Charles or whoever makes me a lurker and not as worthwhile a contributor as someone else?. Is Hugh Lovel regared as a lurker because he conducts a watching brief on what is going on through the list. Would you classify Greg Willis as a lurker? Hey James - dont know what others think but for me postings from yourself , Hugh, Greg Willis, Glen Atkinson, are some of the cream we get on the list - certainly dont think you guys are lurkers and I agree wholeheartedly eith your next sentence To categorise a list member on the basis of how much they contribute and what they say demeans the value of any contribution to the list. It seems that Lloyd keeps on with the same message on his weed control methods without very much comment or discussion of the pro's and con's of his methods. Do you mean here that I am on the wrong track with this or that it should be drawing more discussion from the list? Cheers Lloyd Charles
Talks with Devas (2)
In a message 2 days ago I wrote: The speed of advance cancelled out all warnings, sentient and spiritual. Not even devas can predict everything. But - at 3pm yesterday afternoon my wife Robin was on our tile roof cleaning out the gutters (which I couldn't do because I can't handle heights any more) and blocking the downpipes with rags so we could fill the gutters with water. The wind was at gusty gale force and I was up a ladder panic-stricken, my heart in my mouth, thinking of the danger she was in. Then the devas came in to me and quietened me down - we have four here - and between us we fashioned a globe of protective energy around her. Which worked. Up the ladder almost level with the gutter on the east (back) wall of our house which is single-storey, brick and tile so that was about three metres. Wind tearing along from west to northwest driving billowing clouds of flame-coloured smoke before it, and I was crying. If I continued to be terrified I would be a complete liability - and a physical wreck - before very long. I said Great Spirit, please send help for me and for Robin, my family, our friends and our city. Help came, instantly, initially in the presence of the four devas who live here. Between us, we began to fashion the globe of energy I wanted to put round Robin. My fear was diminishing a little when I became aware of the presence of another deva, one which 'tugged' at my mind and asked May we help? We? 'We' indeed. Not one but many, more than I could count. Help? He/she was very patient with me. With the dome, the energy dome over the city. Dome? I was questioning myself when I felt the familiar beginning of an energy download and my mind went 'up' a notch or two. Construction wasn't instant, first a specification was needed. The weather, I said. The wind, we have to get rid of the wind or keep its speed down. Lower temperatures too. Rain would be great, or moist air if that can't be managed. Time - for firefighters and emergency services to get over the shock and get on with the job. I didn't know that even as I was 'speaking' homes and lifetime dreams were being destroyed by the hundreds. Later I would discover that devas also have emotions and that the situation developing in Duffy and kindred suburbs was too much for them without having warnings to enable them to prepare. There had been no warnings, the fires had moved so incredibly swiftly that the forest spirits had been unable to get them out soon enough. The download went on and slowly the dome expanded. Evidence of this began to pile up. By 10 pm although it was still very warm, the winds (easterly since seven) had dropped and a blanket of thick smoke was forming over the capital. The full moon, a deep red ball, was just visible as it moved across the sky. Early Sunday morning was unbelievably cool here, and though the sun was visible (as red as the moon) it was hidden as the day progressed. The horror of the bushland suburbs was being revealed and the devas were weeping bitterly as the reports came over the radio. But the dome still grew, did so until 3am Tuesday morning, shortly after my energy download had ceased. At seven am I got up to let the dogs out. There was smoke everywhere, not a breath of wind. The sun was red. It was cool with dew on grass. The only change at 10am was the temperature had risen maybe 5C and the dew had evaporated. The 65 kph gusty winds forecast for 2pm did not happen, by 3pm the forecast had been downgraded to 35kph. It is 4pm and I doubt the wind has been above 15 kph here in Scullin. The sun broke through two hours ago but the temp is still down. The official version is that since Sunday morning there has been an inversion or cap over the capital which allowed smoke to build into a thick blanket which in turn kept temperatures down and stopped the winds from developing lowdown. That the forecast wind exists is not in doubt; it was 'measured' coming over Thredbo in the Snowy Mountains and has been blowing all day - over the top of us at 600 metres above ground level. Rain is not an option for us for some reason, I don't know why, but everything else I asked for has happened. We are safe. My first wife (or as she prefers, the mother of my children) lives in Fraser in northwest Canberra which has been on high alert all today against fires just north of the NSW border. She suffers very badly from asthma and arthritis; this morning she evacuated to our youngest son's home out of the affected area, he and my middle son (Richard) took her place with her partner at their home. Richard lives in Curtin on the south side; three houses were lost there, but not his. We're not through this yet, high winds and temperatures are forecast for the weekend but I am told the protection will hold until human resources are equal to the task. Most of the devas have returned whence they came but there is still a 'duty maintenance crew' here
Re: our community/list
This is as interesting to me as it gets: the dynamics of discernment re our perceived status of unique community...presumably dedicated to blessing the larger whole.. with many levels of food. Of course, the elements of potential concern re the larger whole are also present in this group. A democratic vote would, i think, be a weak compromise to true consensus. As we see, the process of arriving at a subliminally preferred consensual result has evoked unusual dialogue in a short time, and we sense that it could go on for a while. That would likely go beyond the comfort level of many who would rather not attend a further barrage of beliefs/perspectives, nor want to take up too much space for the sake of those mainly hungering for on-the-ground clues. I personally prefer as much dialogue as possible in order to know others, and to qualify any statements (This is typical winterwork)...but without encumbering our basic service or our obligation to reach beyond our current practical understanding. I also like to condition my comments from my aggregate impression of participants to date...while reserving the right to question anyones' initiating outright disrespect for any other participants on or off the list. Though i rarely argue such black holes, just addressing them also takes up space. I've really come to like this community's confluential values, and would naturally, somewhat cautiously, want to engage more deeply...as with friends considering full-spectrum implications of our common interest. It seems that some are satisfied enough with their current worldview and their progressive,diligent practical work but are reluctant to entertain much outside of that in this forum. The limited time and space are used at each one's discretion, given this current format. It is obvious that at some point of sufficient sensitivity to consensual denominators, you Allan, as responsible list facilitator, would focalize/vocalize that sensing with any or no changes to the forum. And, we would work it as we will and comment again when moved to. Do we not all-the-while register elements of likemindedness in any personae, and wish to build on that? It can't be stopped, one way or another .manfred.
Re: Ordo Templi Orientis and RS
The following references should corroborate Peter-R. Koenig's finding that Steiner had no involvement with OTO(http://www.cyberlink.ch/~koenig/steiner.htm) and shouldclarify Steiner's attitude even toward less controversial "Orders": Chapter XXXVI of Steiner's autobiography, and letters of that time to Marie Steiner-von Sivers dated 25th Nov. 1905 and 30th Nov 1905 (pp. 68 and 75 of Correspondence and Documents 1901-1925: Rudolf Steiner and Marie Steiner-von Sivers). ___Barry Lia \ [EMAIL PROTECTED] \ Seattle WA
Re: Personal Security / Insecurity
- Original Message - From: James Hedley [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 3:49 PM Subject: Re: Personal Security / Insecurity Dear Lloyd, This mail was not personally aimed at you. It derived from a sense of frustration that sometimes the most trite of subjects can keep the list going for weeks, yet when you mail on your techniques, which I think are part of the cutting edge of farming you are scratching to get an answer. Thanks James I was pretty sure I had your meaning right but I have grabbed the poopy end of the stick a couple of times on the list of late so thought I better check . I've had the same thoughts as yours above myself a couple of times. Cheers Lloyd Charles
