Re: Vitality and fertility ofsoils
- Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2003 1:26 PM Subject: Re: Vitality and fertility ofsoils In the agriculture lectures Steiner refers several times to keeping the work on the farm Hi Steve, Alan This is what I like about Rheams method is that a farmer can learn to do all his own testing from weeds ,insects La Motte soil test, ERGS ORP, ph, brix tests to evaluate the health of his plants and take the appropriate measures to rectify by foliar sprays , BD sprays, Radionics, compost , organic fertilisers. Every time I do the above I learn more about my soils and plants. By combining all the above activities a farmer has sound programme for conversation to organics/ BD. Many times when I have mention BD to growers I get the comment that BD is too hard , I have not got enough time to stir, it is too confusing and the list goes on. I myself changed from conventionial growing to BD 10 years ago following traditional methods it was fine for the first few years and then nothing got any better it wasn't until I joined this list and started using potentised preps ,sequential spraying along with Rheams that I that things have really started to change I still have a lot of hard work to do before I am satisfied that I am producing the perfect crop that is pest, weed and disease free. It is about Working Smarter Not Harder that is my philosophy As far as I am concerned I do not care for any of these scientific evaluations until the preparations have been used for two years...sstorch I recall reading a conversation between Steiner and Pfeiffer where Steiner encourage Pfeiffer to study every thing that he could to make Biodynamic sustainable and profitable he says it wouldn't work unless it was profitable for the farmer . Pfeiffer spent his life time as a scientist studing ,writing and lecturing on this subject. it is so wonderful to have so much knowledge from this list to allow me as a grower to developed my own farm using my own skill, ability and resources that I have available my own individuality. Cheers Tony
Re: Vitality and fertility ofsoils
Hi Gil I dont like the idea of sodium bentonite for our soils and am unable to locate calcium bentonite in the time I have left - used in the wine industry but the type they use is a high grade and very expensive - no local suppliers have any - have decided to go with my favourite farm clay and YES it is a pain in the backside preparing -it would be much easier from a bag! Cheers Lloyd Charles
Re: Vitality and fertility ofsoils
Hi Hugh, Steve and BDNowers, After visiting your seminar Hugh, I had the good fortune to spend some time with Greg. As part of that experience we did some stiring in a small barrel. The only vessel that I could imagine being better than a barrel would be an egg shape. Greg pointed out to me that when one gets stiring a flame shaped vortex descends down the pole into the water. No doubt it goes the other way too. When I stir here when things are getting a bit dry I use a long bamboo pole tied to a branch in a tree. It seems that the 'as above so below' process works in forming a vortex in the atmosphere as well as in the barrel. The result is always some rain. The more people involved the sooner it comes. On the occasions that three of us sprayed and stired we were well drenched within the hour of finnishing stiring. Sure I use potentised preps, and a tree for broadcast as well, but an hour on the stiring pole every now and then gives the body a good workout although I never stir more than 180 liters at once. I had an iteresting experience this year with bottling peaches. With the stiring of horn manure that was made with clay bungs and a bit of chomomile prep for luck then the rain the peaches just about exploded on the tree. To shut them down and ripen them I put one of Glen's root development compounds on followed by his patent mix for ripening. I brix tested the peach juice after cooking without adding any sugar. The first lot picked straight after spraying, came out at 7, the next lot a couple of days later were 16 and a couple of days after that, 15. Each lot was picked at a similar stage of visual ripeness. The root development spray was used to take the sap preasure away from the fruit. This in turn seemed to reduce the tendency to rot. Cheers, Peter. Dear Steve, Okay, next time I stir 500 and 501 I'll make the stirred cards. I'm sure Wendy didn't stir before making the cards. Just incidentally, the most beautiful vortices I've ever seen in stirring were in barrels stirred by Greg Willis. His method was a meticulously prepared pole supported by a tripod and stirred in wine casks. Really beautiful vortices. I don't know how one could duplicate them with machine stirring. I wish you could have seen it, and if you ever get a chance to see someone stir by Greg's method, do so. Best, Hugh I do recommend your pipe. Phil Wheeler installed one at a consultation I did the day after I left. I endorsed it and will work within the parameters of these farmers wishes. They need to cover 2500 acres and they want good results. They have been 25 years no till and want to see more improvements. I have been asking you for some years to make a hand stirred reagent/malcom-rae card/fb reagent. Has that been done??? I even gave you some of my bc with 500-508, any report or use of it? I highly respect what you are doing and will take up radionics and field broadcasting in the near future when I feel I have my current ducks in a row. I ask you to make this stirred water reagent because you have the experience to see the difference, I would need to start from scratch, we don't have the luxury of that kind of time. And as for stirring time I think the hour number was tossed out there by Rudy. With the stirring machine you can observe the patterns in the water more readily than with hand stirring. I have prepared 500 and 501 in about 10-15 minutes. I have done this on properties that have never had an application with a one hour stir and have achieved obvious results. I have done this with water that has never been heated, cold out of the ground and you get results. There have been many impedences placed by dogmatic/armchair anthropop farmers to prevent folks from stirring the easy way. The making of the bd preps is an elevation of matter. The harvest of the sheathe material, the plant material, the marriage of the two, the human interaction, imagine a bd raised cow with proper feed and care and love and bd plants, then making them into these preparations, wow. Spirit and matter, that is what the man was talking about. Someone out there using radionics and field broadcasters please try making a stirred water preparation for these instruments, it would be ashame to wait for me to do it. Keep up the great work... SStorch Visit our website at: www.unionag.org
Re: Vitality and fertility ofsoils
In a message dated 4/1/03 6:15:49 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: OK Steve (and any others that would like to comment) - I'll try this - a couple of questions though - 1. will this stirred water hold the energy pattern long enough to use it in a vial in the broadcaster (weeks or months) - that doesn't work with stirred preps ? Otherwise I need to make your 'stirred water 'card. answer: It may hold the energy for a considerable time, you should experiment with it though, dowse it, and see how it goes, make a card anyway. 2. three of us are putting down some horns (of 500) this weekend and I'd like to include some clay, you have some different ideas on clay - any suggestions ? these are some options :: bentonite - its easy but I'd rather use local paddock reared clay :: I have a nice maroon clay from our subsoil layer - sticky and extremely dense, mostly magnesium it comes from about 6 to 18 inches deep in the profile. :: a yellowish sticky but highly dispersive, high sodium clay from our deep subsoil :: black pond muck - you talked about this stuff a while back - its a black silty clay that settles in the bottom of our farm water storage dams - powerful stuff - very nutrient rich - has some humic material included from organic wash in answer: I woud go with the maroon clay and the pond muck, stay away from high sodium. Do you have trouble with salts in this clime? I make a tree past type substance and put that through the horn process. 3. we will be doing this in a new pit - any suggestions to pre treat the pit for a better result - I'd thought to spray it out with stirred 500 before putting the horns in ? Line the bottom with good compost maybe? What else works? answer: Some bd compost finely screened is good but so is a bc bath to the pit and just good old soil. Thanks for any suggestions
Re: Vitality and fertility ofsoils
I do recommend your pipe. Phil Wheeler installed one at a consultation I did the day after I left. I endorsed it and will work within the parameters of these farmers wishes. They need to cover 2500 acres and they want good results. They have been 25 years no till and want to see more improvements. I have been asking you for some years to make a hand stirred reagent/malcom-rae card/fb reagent. Has that been done??? I even gave you some of my bc with 500-508, any report or use of it? I highly respect what you are doing and will take up radionics and field broadcasting in the near future when I feel I have my current ducks in a row. I ask you to make this stirred water reagent because you have the experience to see the difference, I would need to start from scratch, we don't have the luxury of that kind of time. And as for stirring time I think the hour number was tossed out there by Rudy. With the stirring machine you can observe the patterns in the water more readily than with hand stirring. I have prepared 500 and 501 in about 10-15 minutes. I have done this on properties that have never had an application with a one hour stir and have achieved obvious results. I have done this with water that has never been heated, cold out of the ground and you get results. There have been many impedences placed by dogmatic/armchair anthropop farmers to prevent folks from stirring the easy way. The making of the bd preps is an elevation of matter. The harvest of the sheathe material, the plant material, the marriage of the two, the human interaction, imagine a bd raised cow with proper feed and care and love and bd plants, then making them into these preparations, wow. Spirit and matter, that is what the man was talking about. Someone out there using radionics and field broadcasters please try making a stirred water preparation for these instruments, it would be ashame to wait for me to do it. Keep up the great work... SStorch
Re: Vitality and fertility ofsoils
In a message dated 4/2/03 1:16:40 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I know soil conservation used to recommend bentonite for repairing leaky dams and I thought I had heard of a calcium bentonite is there such a thing ? Maybe my ears were ringing at the time. Calcium bentonite is what Greg Willis uses for horn clay. I use it for clay preps and tree paste... sstorch
Re: Vitality and fertility ofsoils
In a message dated 4/1/03 9:36:56 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Jeez, Storch! Why not put your clay in a horn? What's the problem? Afraid it will get some cosmic forces? I use clay/manure or clay silica, I use clay caps in 500 and 501, I am ot really sold on horn clay. Is the horn really the right sheathe??? The Herbe clay prep goes inthe bovine esophagus... sstorch
Re: Vitality and fertility ofsoils
Dear Steve, Okay, next time I stir 500 and 501 I'll make the stirred cards. I'm sure Wendy didn't stir before making the cards. Just incidentally, the most beautiful vortices I've ever seen in stirring were in barrels stirred by Greg Willis. His method was a meticulously prepared pole supported by a tripod and stirred in wine casks. Really beautiful vortices. I don't know how one could duplicate them with machine stirring. I wish you could have seen it, and if you ever get a chance to see someone stir by Greg's method, do so. Best, Hugh I do recommend your pipe. Phil Wheeler installed one at a consultation I did the day after I left. I endorsed it and will work within the parameters of these farmers wishes. They need to cover 2500 acres and they want good results. They have been 25 years no till and want to see more improvements. I have been asking you for some years to make a hand stirred reagent/malcom-rae card/fb reagent. Has that been done??? I even gave you some of my bc with 500-508, any report or use of it? I highly respect what you are doing and will take up radionics and field broadcasting in the near future when I feel I have my current ducks in a row. I ask you to make this stirred water reagent because you have the experience to see the difference, I would need to start from scratch, we don't have the luxury of that kind of time. And as for stirring time I think the hour number was tossed out there by Rudy. With the stirring machine you can observe the patterns in the water more readily than with hand stirring. I have prepared 500 and 501 in about 10-15 minutes. I have done this on properties that have never had an application with a one hour stir and have achieved obvious results. I have done this with water that has never been heated, cold out of the ground and you get results. There have been many impedences placed by dogmatic/armchair anthropop farmers to prevent folks from stirring the easy way. The making of the bd preps is an elevation of matter. The harvest of the sheathe material, the plant material, the marriage of the two, the human interaction, imagine a bd raised cow with proper feed and care and love and bd plants, then making them into these preparations, wow. Spirit and matter, that is what the man was talking about. Someone out there using radionics and field broadcasters please try making a stirred water preparation for these instruments, it would be ashame to wait for me to do it. Keep up the great work... SStorch Visit our website at: www.unionag.org
Re: Vitality and fertility ofsoils
Dear Steve, I don't know if I have missed something, but what would you perceive as the essential difference between broadcasting from an egg filled with compost teas and preps etc, compared to a Hugh Lovel field broadcaster or using a radionic instrument such as a Bruce Copen, Don Mattioda, Rae or Kelly? The great advantage of radionic instruments is in the realm of analysis. There is no comparable method for making comparisons between different strategies before you use them. Many times I have found that the use of a particular BD preparation would actually decrease soil vitality. How do you work out whether homoeopathically potentised sea water will be a better ionising agent to induce cleaning up of the ether than BD preps. It is obvious that you see merit in being able to broadcast without actually having to cover the ground. So at least we are all on common ground with that one. The next question is how to measure the effectiveness of the broadcast. the only reliable and cheap method is to use the most sensitive of all instruments, the human body. This sensitivity of the human body is the basis of Radionics and Dowsing. You are obviously using the sensitivity of your antennae system to be able to declare unequivocally that the range of your broadcast mechanism is exactly 12000 feet. Is this an arbitrary estimation or do you have an internal measurement system that is able to measure exactly 12000 ft? When I set out to define the edge of a broadcast field it is only possible for me to roughly guess what the distance is, or to use my pendulum to find the distance. The most common question which beginners will ask about BD is 'how do I know if it is working'. How do I know what preps to use and when without having to rely on a cook book solution from whoever is in as the Guru of the day. Radionics and Dowsing can tell you this. They are tools which can enable a person to find what is happening in the natural realm of subtle energies, and it is in the realm of subtle energies that we must delve to be able to judge radionics. Man does not make the energies that are used in radionics, as he does not make the energies that he detects or utilises with his antennae system. They are already there and mankind uses them or focuses them towards what he desires. You do not create the mechanism for electro magnetic wave propagation which is being used to broadcast the energies from your amphora, you are only using the phenomena to be able to focus energy and transmit it where needed. I perceive from previous posts a difficulty in reconciling your world view of substances as being either alive, or not alive. My world view is that everything is alive therefore I can't see such a dynamic system as homoeopathy as producing dead substance. The favoured method in Australia is to use Electronic Homeopathy to prepare reagents for radionic transmission. The only debate that I can see with the use of radionics is 'what are the force fields being created from our instruments and are they having the effect that we desire? That is the subject for another post. The use of homeopathic preparations has been discussed many times so I do not need to elaborate further except that RS obviously saw that there could be benefit in this method. Kolisko's research also confirmed this view. To compare research methods, results and observations of broadcast mechanisms without the angst which at times is passed off as discussion will open up a whole new line of discussion. Just for the record we are now into our fifth year of using BD preps, both hand stirred and radionically prepared and sprayed out. Radionic broadcast by various means has also been used. On the criteria of having put the preps out for more than 2 years I am able to discuss the subject from any angle because I have done it. Kind regards James Hedley - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2003 10:37 PM Subject: Re: Vitality and fertility ofsoils In a message dated 3/31/03 11:02:19 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Heck I'm not trying to convert you guys to radionics you have no need of it - just see our side of the story - and try to appreciate why we (or some of us) are so interested in these other ways of doing things. Cheers Lloyd Charles What about an egg shaped urn buried in the earth, the one I have has a 12,000 foot influence on the farm and surrounding area. I fill it with teas of 500, bc, 501 508, nettles, etc...sstorch
Re: Vitality and fertility ofsoils
- Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2003 10:34 PM Subject: Re: Vitality and fertility ofsoils In a message dated 4/2/03 1:16:40 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I know soil conservation used to recommend bentonite for repairing leaky dams and I thought I had heard of a calcium bentonite is there such a thing ? Maybe my ears were ringing at the time. Calcium bentonite is what Greg Willis uses for horn clay. I use it for clay preps and tree paste... sstorch Thanks Steve Instinct was taking me there but confirmation is nice. Cheers Lloyd Charles
Re: Vitality and fertility ofsoils
In a message dated 4/2/03 4:42:35 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Dear Steve, question: I don't know if I have missed something, but what would you perceive as the essential difference between broadcasting from an egg filled with compost teas and preps etc, compared to a Hugh Lovel field broadcaster or using a radionic instrument such as a Bruce Copen, Don Mattioda, Rae or Kelly? answer: James, according to Schauberger the egg shaped vessel exchanges energies with the earth and emits energies from what is within. The shape by itself promotes life, the womb is egg shaped, eggs are egg shaped, they contain life. During this soujourn in the egg in the earth the liquid in the vessel is imbued with the fructigenic energies of the earth and the egg shape further enhances. This is most likely similar to the energies that create the goodness in cow manure. If it is stirred for two to three consecutive evenings [by electric motor, emf's neutralized by the earth] and then sprayed out on the land this enhaces the soil energetically and therefore biologically. Possibly there is no difference between all of these contravances, it is simply my choice at this time. When I have things in order, I will take up radionics. Question The great advantage of radionic instruments is in the realm of analysis. There is no comparable method for making comparisons between different strategies before you use them. Many times I have found that the use of a particular BD preparation would actually decrease soil vitality. How do you work out whether homoeopathically potentised sea water will be a better ionising agent to induce cleaning up of the ether than BD preps.? answer When a problem or situation arises in the field I can make a judgement by asking myself a question as to how to solve it. At this point I can whip out the pendulum and consciously take a step back and remove myself from the decision making process and see what the pendulum says, or I may feel for the answer intuitively and instinctively and go with it. question: It is obvious that you see merit in being able to broadcast without actually having to cover the ground. So at least we are all on common ground with that one. The next question is how to measure the effectiveness of the broadcast. the only reliable and cheap method is to use the most sensitive of all instruments, the human body. This sensitivity of the human body is the basis of Radionics and Dowsing. You are obviously using the sensitivity of your antennae system to be able to declare unequivocally that the range of your broadcast mechanism is exactly 12000 feet. Is this an arbitrary estimation or do you have an internal measurement system that is able to measure exactly 12000 ft? When I set out to define the edge of a broadcast field it is only possible for me to roughly guess what the distance is, or to use my pendulum to find the distance. answer: I do not feel the necessity to measure and catalogue everything. I know it is important. I am looking at things like soil structure, earthworm activity, weeds. I have dowsed the broadcast distance as well as feeling the influence on the farm and seeig the way things respond when sprayed with preps with and without the egg filled. question: The most common question which beginners will ask about BD is 'how do I know if it is working'. How do I know what preps to use and when without having to rely on a cook book solution from whoever is in as the Guru of the day. Radionics and Dowsing can tell you this. They are tools which can enable a person to find what is happening in the natural realm of subtle energies, and it is in the realm of subtle energies that we must delve to be able to judge radionics. answer: Observation is the key to learning how these things are working, learninng to trust your eyes and instincts first, then I would see what the meter has to say. I would not start out in biodyn first with a meter. You will have your eyes all the time on the meter and not on Nature, the soil, the plant. Comprehend and copy Nature [Schauberger] Man does not make the energies that are used in radionics, as he does not make the energies that he detects or utilises with his antennae system. They are already there and mankind uses them or focuses them towards what he desires. You do not create the mechanism for electro magnetic wave propagation which is being used to broadcast the energies from your amphora, you are only using the phenomena to be able to focus energy and transmit it where needed. I perceive from previous posts a difficulty in reconciling your world view of substances as being either alive, or not alive. My world view is that everything is alive therefore I can't see such a dynamic system as homoeopathy as producing dead substance. answer: Yes everything is alive. There are positive and negative energies for each situation. You need to see what is right for
Re: Vitality and fertility ofsoils
Hugh Lovel said he likes human-powered BD prep stirring that is done with a tripod stirrer over a barrell, the kind made by Greg Willis, that they made a real nice vortex. These were in use at Topolos Vineyard in Sonoma County. Slide #3 and #4 in the RealSlideShow on my farm home web page shows the tripod stirring device and the vortex, from the Biodynamic Viticulture Field Day at Topolos Vineyard a few years back when Hugh was teaching with Peter Proctor over at Steiner College. It's a Beautiful Day A RealSlideShow sampler http://www.ipa.net/~steved/audio/ Steve Diver
Re: Vitality and fertility ofsoils
Charles and the list, I am interested in the possibility of trialing a number of clays. If I am using a clay, I would tend to go for either bentonite, or a commercially prepared pottery clay, simply because as a one time potter, I have prepared all the clay I want to do for the time and as a one time prospector I have located all the clay deposits I want to do for the time. It is so easy to buy it in a bag. But on my two hundred acres I am aware of many distinct clays with very different properties, that would have some part to play, if one was experimenting in this area and undoubtedly other properties would also have a number of distinct clays, each with unique qualities. How about doing the larger amount with your preferred clay and several of each type of lessor clay and then doing some dowsing on the end product and if possible some field trials Gil Lloyd Charles wrote: Steve Storch wrote I have to dis agree. If it is not done by the human hand where does the farm individuality arise from. Take ten minutes, stir the water and make the "reagent",, you owe it to yourself...sstorch OK Steve (and any others that would like to comment) - I'll try this - a couple of questions though - 1. will this stirred water hold the energy pattern long enough to use it in a vial in the broadcaster (weeks or months) - that doesn't work with stirred preps ? Otherwise I need to make your 'stirred water 'card. 2. three of us are putting down some horns (of 500) this weekend and I'd like to include some clay, you have some different ideas on clay - any suggestions ? these are some options :: bentonite - its easy but I'd rather use local paddock reared clay :: I have a nice maroon clay from our subsoil layer - sticky and extremely dense, mostly magnesium it comes from about 6 to 18 inches deep in the profile. :: a yellowish sticky but highly dispersive, high sodium clay from our deep subsoil :: black pond muck - you talked about this stuff a while back - its a black silty clay that settles in the bottom of our farm water storage dams - powerful stuff - very nutrient rich - has some humic material included from organic wash in 3. we will be doing this in a new pit - any suggestions to pre treat the pit for a better result - I'd thought to spray it out with stirred 500 before putting the horns in ? Line the bottom with good compost maybe? What else works? Thanks for any suggestions cheers Lloyd Charles
Re: Vitality and fertility ofsoils
Charles and the list, I am interested in the possibility of trialing a number of clays. If I am using a clay, I would tend to go for either bentonite, or a commercially prepared pottery clay, simply because as a one time potter, I have prepared all the clay I want to do for the time and as a one time prospector I have located all the clay deposits I want to do for the time. It is so easy to buy it in a bag. But on my two hundred acres I am aware of many distinct clays with very different properties, that would have some part to play, if one was experimenting in this area and undoubtedly other properties would also have a number of distinct clays, each with unique qualities. How about doing the larger amount with your preferred clay and several of each type of lessor clay and then doing some dowsing on the end product and if possible some field trials Gil Lloyd Charles wrote: Steve Storch wrote I have to dis agree. If it is not done by the human hand where does the farm individuality arise from. Take ten minutes, stir the water and make the "reagent",, you owe it to yourself...sstorch OK Steve (and any others that would like to comment) - I'll try this - a couple of questions though - 1. will this stirred water hold the energy pattern long enough to use it in a vial in the broadcaster (weeks or months) - that doesn't work with stirred preps ? Otherwise I need to make your 'stirred water 'card. 2. three of us are putting down some horns (of 500) this weekend and I'd like to include some clay, you have some different ideas on clay - any suggestions ? these are some options :: bentonite - its easy but I'd rather use local paddock reared clay :: I have a nice maroon clay from our subsoil layer - sticky and extremely dense, mostly magnesium it comes from about 6 to 18 inches deep in the profile. :: a yellowish sticky but highly dispersive, high sodium clay from our deep subsoil :: black pond muck - you talked about this stuff a while back - its a black silty clay that settles in the bottom of our farm water storage dams - powerful stuff - very nutrient rich - has some humic material included from organic wash in 3. we will be doing this in a new pit - any suggestions to pre treat the pit for a better result - I'd thought to spray it out with stirred 500 before putting the horns in ? Line the bottom with good compost maybe? What else works? Thanks for any suggestions cheers Lloyd Charles
Re: Vitality and fertility ofsoils
Hey, I am glad to here that you will get around to actually doing some realm of the living spraying. When you make your cards are the preps right out of the ground or are they stirred? How can you introduce the stirring process to radionics and field broadcasting? Is there a stirred water card??? Keep on... SStorch In a message dated 3/31/03 11:02:19 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: long term. Heck I'm not trying to convert you guys to radionics you have no need of it - just see our side of the story - and try to appreciate why we (or some of us) are so interested in these other ways of doing things.
Re: Vitality and fertility ofsoils
In a message dated 3/31/03 11:21:28 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Are you meaning cow pat pit or horn clay as the BCR? Due to some bs government eyebrow raising on interstate shipments we stopped all reference to barrel compost or cow pat manure and call it biodynamic compound preparation. I make mine with a special arrangement of 500-508 with clay, not orn clay just clay, I am not sold on horn clay, will make the Hugo Herbe clay prep this fall...SStorch
Re: Vitality and fertility ofsoils
In a message dated 3/31/03 11:02:19 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Heck I'm not trying to convert you guys to radionics you have no need of it - just see our side of the story - and try to appreciate why we (or some of us) are so interested in these other ways of doing things. Cheers Lloyd Charles What about an egg shaped urn buried in the earth, the one I have has a 12,000 foot influence on the farm and surrounding area. I fill it with teas of 500, bc, 501 508, nettles, etc...sstorch
Re: Vitality and fertility ofsoils
- Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2003 8:28 PM Subject: Re: Vitality and fertility ofsoils Hey, I am glad to here that you will get around to actually doing some realm of the living spraying. When you make your cards are the preps right out of the ground or are they stirred? How can you introduce the stirring process to radionics and field broadcasting? Is there a stirred water card??? Keep on... SStorch Steve I use cards made from Hugh Lovel's preps - I figure his are as good as any - better than most - I assume they are from the ground. I keep some special energised rainwater vials in the broadcaster well and I believe the cosmic energies travelling through the forward and reverse rotation of the broadcaster coils and blending with the patterns of the preps held in the well replicates the role of stirring. cosmic energies coming in through vortex and chaos to blend with the patterns of the preps. Cheers Lloyd Charles
Re: Vitality and fertility ofsoils
In a message dated 4/1/03 8:53:54 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: broadcaster coils and blending with the patterns of the preps held in the well replicates the role of stirring. cosmic energies coming in through vortex and chaos to blend with the patterns of the preps. I have to dis agree. If it is not done by the human hand where does the farm individuality arise from. Take ten minutes, stir the water and make the reagent,, you owe it to yourself...sstorch
Re: Vitality and fertility ofsoils
Steve Storch wrote I have to dis agree. If it is not done by the human hand where does the farm individuality arise from. Take ten minutes, stir the water and make the reagent,, you owe it to yourself...sstorch OK Steve (and any others that would like to comment) - I'll try this - a couple of questions though - 1. will this stirred water hold the energy pattern long enough to use it in a vial in the broadcaster (weeks or months) - that doesn't work with stirred preps ? Otherwise I need to make your 'stirred water 'card. 2. three of us are putting down some horns (of 500) this weekend and I'd like to include some clay, you have some different ideas on clay - any suggestions ? these are some options :: bentonite - its easy but I'd rather use local paddock reared clay :: I have a nice maroon clay from our subsoil layer - sticky and extremely dense, mostly magnesium it comes from about 6 to 18 inches deep in the profile. :: a yellowish sticky but highly dispersive, high sodium clay from our deep subsoil :: black pond muck - you talked about this stuff a while back - its a black silty clay that settles in the bottom of our farm water storage dams - powerful stuff - very nutrient rich - has some humic material included from organic wash in 3. we will be doing this in a new pit - any suggestions to pre treat the pit for a better result - I'd thought to spray it out with stirred 500 before putting the horns in ? Line the bottom with good compost maybe? What else works? Thanks for any suggestions cheers Lloyd Charles
Re: Vitality and fertility ofsoils
In a message dated 3/30/03 7:08:48 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: how it can be measured and how it can be changed using Albrecht/Rheams. How can we enhance the vitality using the biodynamic remedies??? By doing sequential sprays of 500, 501, and biodynamic compound remedy [bcr] with 502-508, and 508, 500/508, 501/508 and bcr that is how. Is this a radionics or a biodynamic discussion group??? In the agriculture lectures Steiner refers several times to keeping the work on the farm in the realm of the living. Ergo, sheathe material from domestic and wild animals, plants, and manures. As far as I am concerned I do not care for any of these scientific evaluations until the preparations have been used for two years...sstorch Steve, I think you are way out of line. What is so in the realm of the living about a stirring machine, a spray rig and a tractor? I don't get it. A radionic instrument is a whole lot MORE in the realm of the living as it is a bit mechanical--like a transit or a telescope--and a good bit more living operator who is using the radionic instrument to project his intention. And what is this notion you seem to have that radionics and biodynamics are, what? Mutually exclusive? Huh??? I haven't any doubt that were Rudolf Steiner around today he would be teaching farmers how to use radionic instruments and field broadcasters as well as getting kids to stir preparations for their Waldorf School gardens by hand. As you know I fully support you in your stirring and spraying. I think that you're doing good work there. Why send me scorn by return mail for radionics? Is this some only solution trip you're crusing on? Best, Hugh Visit our website at: www.unionag.org
Re: Vitality and fertility ofsoils
Lloyd, May I have a go as someone who knows precious little about all this. There seem to be two lines of thought: 1. Stimulating soil life, by making clay minerals available. Bentonite is a weathering product of volcanic tuffs, usually high Mg containing montmorillonites. The minerals are easily available to microorganisms and plants and especially recomended for light sandy soils in small quantities but frequently. 2. but I'd rather use local paddock reared clay sounds to me as you wanting to access energies or, in my interpretation, in the [clay] soils laid down learning by your environment (or is it of your environment?). I relate this to deep psychology - accessing the sub- or unconscious deep learnings and then connect this with what is happening now in an up-and-down process. Analogously, what about adding little bits of each soil layer to create an interchange of knowledge between the past and the present? Regards, Christiane [EMAIL PROTECTED]@envirolink.org on 02/04/2003 09:27:47 AM Please respond to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To:[EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:Re: Vitality and fertility ofsoils Steve Storch wrote I have to dis agree. If it is not done by the human hand where does the farm individuality arise from. Take ten minutes, stir the water and make the reagent,, you owe it to yourself...sstorch OK Steve (and any others that would like to comment) - I'll try this - a couple of questions though - 1. will this stirred water hold the energy pattern long enough to use it in a vial in the broadcaster (weeks or months) - that doesn't work with stirred preps ? Otherwise I need to make your 'stirred water 'card. 2. three of us are putting down some horns (of 500) this weekend and I'd like to include some clay, you have some different ideas on clay - any suggestions ? these are some options :: bentonite - its easy but I'd rather use local paddock reared clay :: I have a nice maroon clay from our subsoil layer - sticky and extremely dense, mostly magnesium it comes from about 6 to 18 inches deep in the profile. :: a yellowish sticky but highly dispersive, high sodium clay from our deep subsoil :: black pond muck - you talked about this stuff a while back - its a black silty clay that settles in the bottom of our farm water storage dams - powerful stuff - very nutrient rich - has some humic material included from organic wash in 3. we will be doing this in a new pit - any suggestions to pre treat the pit for a better result - I'd thought to spray it out with stirred 500 before putting the horns in ? Line the bottom with good compost maybe? What else works? Thanks for any suggestions cheers Lloyd Charles
Re: Vitality and fertility ofsoils
Hugh wrote I haven't any doubt that were Rudolf Steiner around today he would be teaching farmers how to use radionic instruments and field broadcasters as well as getting kids to stir preparations for their Waldorf School gardens by hand. Nor have I any doubt about that All those 'anti' to radionics should read Steiner's reply to Pfeiffer more often the benefits of the biodynamic preparations should be made available as quickly as possible to the largest possible areas of the entire Earth, for the Earth's healing does'nt say anything about restricting the manner of application of those benefits to a pre ordained method. There are vast areas of the earth that cannot possibly be treated by conventional spraying of the preps - application costs will just not allow it to happen - field broadcasters can be set up for 50cents an acre and maintained in active service for a small fraction of that. Cheers all Lloyd Charles
Re: Vitality and fertility ofsoils
In a message dated 3/31/03 11:21:28 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Are you meaning cow pat pit or horn clay as the BCR? Due to some bs government eyebrow raising on interstate shipments we stopped all reference to barrel compost or cow pat manure and call it biodynamic compound preparation. I make mine with a special arrangement of 500-508 with clay, not orn clay just clay, I am not sold on horn clay, will make the Hugo Herbe clay prep this fall...SStorch Steve, Jeez, Storch! Why not put your clay in a horn? What's the problem? Afraid it will get some cosmic forces? Hugh Visit our website at: www.unionag.org
Re: Vitality and fertility ofsoils
In a message dated 3/31/03 11:02:19 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Heck I'm not trying to convert you guys to radionics you have no need of it - just see our side of the story - and try to appreciate why we (or some of us) are so interested in these other ways of doing things. Cheers Lloyd Charles What about an egg shaped urn buried in the earth, the one I have has a 12,000 foot influence on the farm and surrounding area. I fill it with teas of 500, bc, 501 508, nettles, etc...sstorch Steve, There you are. You do good work. Keep it up. Hugh Visit our website at: www.unionag.org
Re: Vitality and fertility ofsoils
- Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2003 8:28 PM Subject: Re: Vitality and fertility ofsoils Hey, I am glad to here that you will get around to actually doing some realm of the living spraying. When you make your cards are the preps right out of the ground or are they stirred? How can you introduce the stirring process to radionics and field broadcasting? Is there a stirred water card??? Keep on... SStorch Steve I use cards made from Hugh Lovel's preps - I figure his are as good as any - better than most - I assume they are from the ground. I keep some special energised rainwater vials in the broadcaster well and I believe the cosmic energies travelling through the forward and reverse rotation of the broadcaster coils and blending with the patterns of the preps held in the well replicates the role of stirring. cosmic energies coming in through vortex and chaos to blend with the patterns of the preps. Cheers Lloyd Charles Dears, I have to laugh. Yes. my preps are from the ground. In fact, they are Courtney's preps, and as Lloyd says they probably are as good as any and better than most. I sent these samples off to England and had the cards made by Wendy. But we could as well make our own cards, really. Each has their own perspective in making a card, but I think I might trust the perspective of an older person with a lot of experience than most younger persons--though not all. Some are born with a better connection than I can ever hope to have. And so it goes. We each have our focus, and our distortions. It is useful to ask what your own focus and distortions are, and to pursue this, as one can learn a lot. I don't exactly want to say that I have done this, even though I have, because I cannot tell how much I have to work through to attain what others may be born with. I don't know that I have done this to the finish. In fact, I'm sure I have not done this to the finish. I've worked on my consciousness, sure, and know that we could all afford to--would greatly benefit from it. It's humbling, as what comes out is all one's foolishness, pettyness, stupidity, blindness, wishful thinking, etc. And when is that reservoir dry? When we wish? Or when we cannot find any more? And even when we can't, are we good at finding more in the depths of our spirit? When dowsing, are we not taking on the most direct of spiritual challenges? One sets an intent and then explores what might be the answer. And one must take the indication, clear, either yes or no, or either a degree or percent, a gradient, a scale or a selection. One must go from there with confidence. Here's one of the hitches. Reality conforms to our mental images. So when we think things must be one way or another, they generally conform, though there are a lot of factors involved, particularly when many other people are involved. But Heisenberg, back in the thirties, proposed that the very presence of the observer and his measuring instruments was a determining factor in the field of investigation. And so it seems to be. We tend to create the realities we inhabit. So where will we experience the ultimate truths? When we mould them? Or when we seek the creative authority of the whole, entire universe to show us the mould? I'll leave us with that question. Best, Hugh Visit our website at: www.unionag.org
Re: Vitality and fertility ofsoils
In a message dated 4/1/03 8:53:54 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: broadcaster coils and blending with the patterns of the preps held in the well replicates the role of stirring. cosmic energies coming in through vortex and chaos to blend with the patterns of the preps. I have to dis agree. If it is not done by the human hand where does the farm individuality arise from. Take ten minutes, stir the water and make the reagent,, you owe it to yourself...sstorch Dear Steve, By human hand or by human thought? What is the deciding factor? If by the human hand without the human thought, what then? And if by the human thought without the human hand, what then? Consider this. You DO own it to your self. Take ten minutes--or an hour--and stir. It's a good activity. And cover an acre or several. Take two minutes and even ten and cover a thousand or even four thousand. What's the difference? The human thought goes with both, even if the human hand does not so much. Where's your valuation of things? Where does it lie? With certain personalitles and their persuasions, or with your own knowing? What do each say? What do you say? While I like you and what you are doing, are you under the persuasion of others, and have you the choice of getting into radionics or not? Are you that free? I'll like you either way, and acknowledge y ou either way, can you do the same for me? Can you grant me the validity of my path? I grant I don't think I have ever sold one of your stirring machines, though I've recommended them. I would always recommend them since they keep the EMF as far as possible from the solution to be sprayed. I must wonder when you have ever recommended one of my broadcasters for a client who had too rough a terrain or too much acerage for stirring and sprayin to be an option. Aren't we trying to get the benefits of our preparations out over the largest possible areas of the earth for the earth's healing for the benefit of all? Aren't you interested in how this works? Granted you may be coming from a belief that this does not work. But surely that doesn't serve true, and you have to acknowledge that what I and Lorraine, and Lloyd, Arden Anderson, Phil Wheeler, etc. are doing works. .Aren't you interested? You can expeeriment around and see what you think. Anyone amongst us will help you, ask anyone you trust. We'd all like to see you experiment, and no telling you might teach us things we didn't know and didn't understand. That's ordinarily the way of the way of things. Anyway, here's a critical brother. I appreciate all the good you do, which is plenty. I'm being critical. I wish it wasn't so. When I see you at conferences or gatherings, let me always be your friend and supporter. But, please be a little more open-minded. Okay? Best, Hugh Visit our website at: www.unionag.org
Re: Vitality and fertility ofsoils
What about an egg shaped urn buried in the earth, the one I have has a 12,000 foot influence on the farm and surrounding area. I fill it with teas of 500, bc, 501 508, nettles, etc...sstorch Steve, I missed this first time around . this is not radionics ? but as my old dad would say its as near as dammit is to swearing from it Lloyd Charles
Re: Vitality and fertility ofsoils
Hi Christiane Thanks for your input - bentonite sounds like good stuff to me - is there just one bentonite - animal feeders round here use sodium bentonite and I can get some of that - I know soil conservation used to recommend bentonite for repairing leaky dams and I thought I had heard of a calcium bentonite is there such a thing ? Maybe my ears were ringing at the time. There seem to be two lines of thought: 1. Stimulating soil life, by making clay minerals available. Bentonite is a weathering product of volcanic tuffs, usually high Mg containing montmorillonites. The minerals are easily available to microorganisms and plants and especially recomended for light sandy soils in small quantities but frequently. 2. but I'd rather use local paddock reared clay sounds to me as you wanting to access energies or, in my interpretation, in the [clay] soils laid down learning by your environment (or is it of your environment?). I relate this to deep psychology - accessing the sub- or unconscious deep learnings and then connect this with what is happening now in an up-and-down process. Analogously, what about adding little bits of each soil layer to create an interchange of knowledge between the past and the present? Nothing so deep, just figuring we have some nice clay here thats a strong part of what this farm is and what the soils will do, why bring in clay from hundreds of miles away ? However for a nutritional kick along, supplying readily available trace minerals - thats a different and interesting subject. What rate of bentonite would you suggest to use on a sandy loam soil? - is it affordable on a broadacre scale? Cheers Lloyd Charles
Re: Vitality and fertility ofsoils
Hi Lloyd Do a [google] search on bentonite for Australia. there is a fair bit on the web. Yes, there is a calcium bentonite, which would probably be much better than the sodium bentonite. See the page 'Mineral Information Leaflet 1'. Quoting from Sattler-Wistinghausen, 1985, Der landwirtschaftliche Betrieb biologisch-dynamisch (The agricultural enterprise bio-dynamic), Ulmer, Stuttgart, my bd bible: Addition of bentonite: compost: 1-2 kg/m³ spreading in the garden - not field (sic!) - 0.2-0.4 t/ha (Don't know, why it is okay in the garden, but not in the agricultural field (Acker). Perhaps adding it to the manure is the better way.) liquid manure 200 g/m³ 200 g/100 l spray as additive to the trunk coat and additive as resistance inducing preventative fungicidal sprays in orchards and vineyards. The Al-ions are the effective components. [Hofmann, Köpfer und Werner, 1995, Oekologischer Weinbau (Ecological Viticulture), Ulmer, Stuttgart]. Sorry, I am not biased towards German vs Australian books. These are just the ones I have got, because I had easy access to them. Christiane [EMAIL PROTECTED]@envirolink.org on 02/04/2003 04:01:34 PM Please respond to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To:[EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:Re: Vitality and fertility ofsoils Hi Christiane Thanks for your input - bentonite sounds like good stuff to me - is there just one bentonite - animal feeders round here use sodium bentonite and I can get some of that - I know soil conservation used to recommend bentonite for repairing leaky dams and I thought I had heard of a calcium bentonite is there such a thing ? Maybe my ears were ringing at the time. There seem to be two lines of thought: 1. Stimulating soil life, by making clay minerals available. Bentonite is a weathering product of volcanic tuffs, usually high Mg containing montmorillonites. The minerals are easily available to microorganisms and plants and especially recomended for light sandy soils in small quantities but frequently. 2. but I'd rather use local paddock reared clay sounds to me as you wanting to access energies or, in my interpretation, in the [clay] soils laid down learning by your environment (or is it of your environment?). I relate this to deep psychology - accessing the sub- or unconscious deep learnings and then connect this with what is happening now in an up-and-down process. Analogously, what about adding little bits of each soil layer to create an interchange of knowledge between the past and the present? Nothing so deep, just figuring we have some nice clay here thats a strong part of what this farm is and what the soils will do, why bring in clay from hundreds of miles away ? However for a nutritional kick along, supplying readily available trace minerals - thats a different and interesting subject. What rate of bentonite would you suggest to use on a sandy loam soil? - is it affordable on a broadacre scale? Cheers Lloyd Charles
Re: Vitality and fertility ofsoils
In a message dated 3/30/03 7:08:48 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: how it can be measured and how it can be changed using Albrecht/Rheams. How can we enhance the vitality using the biodynamic remedies??? By doing sequential sprays of 500, 501, and biodynamic compound remedy [bcr] with 502-508, and 508, 500/508, 501/508 and bcr that is how. Is this a radionics or a biodynamic discussion group??? In the agriculture lectures Steiner refers several times to keeping the work on the farm in the realm of the living. Ergo, sheathe material from domestic and wild animals, plants, and manures. As far as I am concerned I do not care for any of these scientific evaluations until the preparations have been used for two years...sstorch
Re: Vitality and fertility ofsoils
In the agriculture lectures Steiner refers several times to keeping the work on the farm in the realm of the living. Ergo, sheathe material from domestic and wild animals, plants, and manures. Bravo, Steve. It's the absolute truth. Working in the realm of the living at all times. _Allan
Re: Vitality and fertility ofsoils
Is this a radionics or a biodynamic discussion group??? Hi Steve (and Allan) Last saturday I travelled an hour and a half west of here to install a field broadcaster on a sheep farm, its 13 inch rainfall country and somewhere over 60,000acres, We set up on some rolling sandhill country that has been part cleared of timber, but still has lots of stumps and fallen trees plus a lot of rough patches where rabbitt warrens have been ripped over the years, very hazardous country to drive around any time there is some grass cover, and the only practical way you could spray it is by plane. We found a nice energy intersection on a rise in the middle of the area, put up our broadcaster, loaded up with all the BD preps in their little vials, added a couple of potentised reagents for calcium and phosphorus, and a weed pepper, now the only catch is we are probably hoping for a miracle to happen. The people are trying to figure something that will give them some respite from infestations of puncture vine that have rendered some of this country off limits to sheep and only usable part time for cattle, its a huge problem, and probably has taken 60 years or more to slowly progress to the stage its at now, rotational grazing management has not been able to make any gains weed wise. This is low rainfall, low carrying capacity land, probably would sell less than a hundred Au dollars per acre. As time progresses we will probably get some conventional preps sprayed around fire breaks and fencelines to reinforce the program but that pipe went up nice and was a far more pleasant and spiritual experience than trying to bash around that same patch of land with a sprayrig. We are broadcasting around 2500 to 3000 acres with it, no diesel fumes, no broken gear, minimal expense, and I know that it will do more for that piece of land than a poorly executed prep spraying program would. Getting the proper preps out good enough on these extended areas of low value country is always going to be a problem because of cost if for no other reason. To get a better result than the field broadcaster you'd need to treat at least twice the first year with 500/501- thats most of twenty bucks an acre up front - even half of that would be unsustainable long term. Heck I'm not trying to convert you guys to radionics you have no need of it - just see our side of the story - and try to appreciate why we (or some of us) are so interested in these other ways of doing things. Cheers Lloyd Charles As far as I am concerned I do not care for any of these scientific evaluations until the preparations have been used for two years...sstorch ps steve I agree with this, we can too easily jump to conclusions or make outlandish claims - a trap we all fall into from time to time
Re: Vitality and fertility ofsoils
Kia ora Steve Are you meaning cow pat pit or horn clay as the BCR? Many thanks Diana
Re: Vitality and fertility ofsoils
Hi James I was just looking up some notes in Phil Wheeler book when I came across 3-4 sections on crop vitality and how it can be measured and how it can be changed using Albrecht/Rheams. he also mentioned Dr Arden Andersens other book ' The Anatomy of life and Energy in Agriculture. Philip Wheeler's book The Non-Toxic Farming Handbook . Regards Tony Robinson
Re: Vitality and fertility ofsoils
Dear Tony, thank you very much for your information. I downloaded Rex Harrill's page and David von Pein. Now all that I have to do now is to make time to plow through it. If you have any further information will be most grateful to receive it. Kindest regards James - Original Message - From: Rambler Flowers LTD [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 10:21 AM Subject: Re: Vitality and fertility ofsoils - Original Message - From: James Hedley [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Vitality of the soil seems to not get coverage on BDnow. Maybe one of the reasons is that until I started to research this concept I had never heard of vitality as being measurable parameter of soil. I write this in the hope that some of you who have experience of Reams techniques may be able to enlighten me, or head me in the direction of further areas of study of his methods. I James I have enjoyed studding and putting into practice the Reams method of testing soils,composts, liquid sprays, weeds and plant on a weekly basis to be able to grow plants with out weed ,pests and disease. Reams talks about energy within the above and how to get it in balance that will enhance optimum plant growth. I feel with in myself that there is a link between energy and vitality. As I am not a particularly good at writing about these things I have posted below information that I have collected about this subject .This coming winter I hope to study some of Carey Reams books. A friend is going to lend them to me as they are out of print Philip Wheeler's book The Non-Toxic Farming Handbook is the best book I have read . Other books are Science In Agriculture, Dr Arden BE Andersen Mainline Farming for the 21st Century, Dr Dan Skow All found at the Acres USA site http://www.acresusa.com Each of these author have a different slant on the subject. A VISIT to this web site will give you a very good edited background to working with the Albrecht Model. http://www.healthyag.com/index2.html I will soon be purchasing Mr Jones books his work as been recommended to me by Cheryl .His work is very user friendly. 99 The Brix man Rex Harrill www.brixpage.com www.crossroads.ws/brixbook/BBook.htm (Rex Harrill's booklet) Pike Labs Good background material here http://www.pikeagri.com/tissuetest.html The Meter Man - David von Pein http://www.themeterman.com.au This guy can talk for hours on the subject . He recons soil can be turned around in about 3years I found him very helpful. James I do have a number of emails from this list on the subject if you are interested I could send them offline I hope this is of assistance Best Regards Tony Robinson New Zealand Down Under
Re: Vitality and fertility ofsoils
- Original Message - From: James Hedley [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Vitality of the soil seems to not get coverage on BDnow. Maybe one of the reasons is that until I started to research this concept I had never heard of vitality as being measurable parameter of soil. I write this in the hope that some of you who have experience of Reams techniques may be able to enlighten me, or head me in the direction of further areas of study of his methods. I James I have enjoyed studding and putting into practice the Reams method of testing soils,composts, liquid sprays, weeds and plant on a weekly basis to be able to grow plants with out weed ,pests and disease. Reams talks about energy within the above and how to get it in balance that will enhance optimum plant growth. I feel with in myself that there is a link between energy and vitality. As I am not a particularly good at writing about these things I have posted below information that I have collected about this subject .This coming winter I hope to study some of Carey Reams books. A friend is going to lend them to me as they are out of print Philip Wheeler's book The Non-Toxic Farming Handbook is the best book I have read . Other books are Science In Agriculture, Dr Arden BE Andersen Mainline Farming for the 21st Century, Dr Dan Skow All found at the Acres USA site http://www.acresusa.com Each of these author have a different slant on the subject. A VISIT to this web site will give you a very good edited background to working with the Albrecht Model. http://www.healthyag.com/index2.html I will soon be purchasing Mr Jones books his work as been recommended to me by Cheryl .His work is very user friendly. 99 The Brix man Rex Harrill www.brixpage.com www.crossroads.ws/brixbook/BBook.htm (Rex Harrill's booklet) Pike Labs Good background material here http://www.pikeagri.com/tissuetest.html The Meter Man - David von Pein http://www.themeterman.com.au This guy can talk for hours on the subject . He recons soil can be turned around in about 3years I found him very helpful. James I do have a number of emails from this list on the subject if you are interested I could send them offline I hope this is of assistance Best Regards Tony Robinson New Zealand Down Under
Re: Vitality and fertility ofsoils
- Original Message - From: James Hedley [EMAIL PROTECTED] claim that food is better if grown biodynamically. I love my plants and take great delight in growing plants that have a look of vitality about them. Although they may appear to be very vital plants, each year the seed loses some of it's vitality. My problem then became how do I increase vitality, James Some time ago when Peter Bacchus and I were working together in the fields we had a great discussion on plant breeding and the use of BD preps to effect this . What comes to mind ,as no notes were taken we were grubbing weeds, was that we talked about the use of different preps to aid in cross breeding to improve colour, quality, vigour etc. Maybe Peter may be able to help you in this area. Just a thought that came to mind as I grubbed another lot of weeds. Regards Tony.
Re: Vitality and fertility ofsoils
Hi James and Tony James wrote (a while back) I love my plants and take great delight in growing plants that have a look of vitality about them. Although they may appear to be very vital plants, each year the seed loses some of it's vitality. Then Tony James Some time ago when Peter Bacchus and I were working together in the fields we had a great discussion on plant breeding and the use of BD preps to effect this . What comes to mind ,as no notes were taken we were grubbing weeds, was that we talked about the use of different preps to aid in cross breeding to improve colour, quality, vigour etc. We started out about eight years ago using a compounded (hot mix) trace element seed dressing - immediate visible increase in seedling vigour and for pennies an acre we got eight to sixteen % measured grain yield increase from that one small input, we have since moved on from that material (we hope) to using a remineralising fertility program and seed dressings and foliars based on natural materials like fish, kelp etc. The vitality of our seed wheat increases steadily with each generation and I believe the key to it is availability and uptake of trace minerals. What method we use to achieve this is of minor importance. For the conventional farmer down the road a cutback in toxic inputs and use of the seed dressing product we used initially is probably best bet, a BD farmer has a philosophic need to look to some other method, so catalysing rock dust input with the preps becomes the way for some. Whatever it takes to get those trace minerals into the plant and concentrated in the fruit or seed is whats needed. I believe thats a major factor in what we are calling 'vitality' Cheers Lloyd Charles ps for all I think on our farm we are starting out from a much lower base of vitality than what James would have so its easier to make progress .
Re: Vitality and fertility ofsoils
In a message dated 3/14/03 12:51:04 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Sorry but I left stirring machines out in discussing manual and radionic
methods and the enthusiasm of practitioners.
Nothin' to be sorry about. My caution / hesitation / criticism about these
type of methods is the absence of the real vitality created by actually
physically stirring and spraying these remedies. Any and all use of a field
broadcaster or radionic device would be greatly enhanced by the physical
application. I have put out there to actually stir water with the preps in
it and make a card or reagent for the broadcast. Have you all doe your
homework??? ... sstorch :-{
Re: Vitality and fertility ofsoils
Dear lloyd, Thank you for your very well thought out reply. It is getting late tonight so will try to reply within the next few days. Kind regards, James - Original Message - From: Lloyd Charles [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2003 12:24 AM Subject: Re: Vitality and fertility ofsoils - Original Message - From: James Hedley [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2003 9:37 PM Subject: Vitality and fertility ofsoils Dear Lloyd, Steve and fellow list members, In Bruce Copen's Agricultural rates there are the rates for soil testing with Carey Reams techniques. Amongst these rates is one for testing the vitality of the soil. Vitality of the soil seems to not get coverage on BDnow. Maybe one of the reasons is that until I started to research this concept I had never heard of vitality as being measurable parameter of soil. I write this in the hope that some of you who have experience of Reams techniques may be able to enlighten me, or head me in the direction of further areas of study of his methods. Lloyd knows our property, red basalt soil, 3200 cgs on average, averages 6% organic matter, high mineralisation and a dream soil for anyone to start with. There is only one problem, when you test the soils in our cultivation paddocks radionically it gives a reading of about 10% vitality, and the same for fertility. My definition for fertility is the ability of plants grown to reproduce true to type with maximum viability, which is a true reflection of the fertility of the soil. In other words they need to have inbuilt vitality and an inbuilt toughness. Hi James Some of the followers of Carey Reams ideas would tell you that those really good soils like yours are often very difficult to manage when they get out of shape, they are strongly fertile and highly buffered and they resist our efforts to change them in whatever direction we are meaning to move. They can be exploitatively farmed for a long period but then restoration takes equally long, trace element imbalances that dont appear that serious can take a lot of effort to correct etc. When we look at the bush in your area there is a marked lack of diversity compared to poorer soil types nearby, this is something we see all over Australia, in the most fertile soil areas the natural vegetation appears as almost a mono culture (the mitchell grass plains or the riverina floodplain covered with redgum) whereas in the poorest soil types there is an unbeleivable diversity of species (west australias sand plain country or the pilliga for example) maybe this lack of diversity in the original vegetation also supports a restricted microbial species range that makes it difficult to grow some introduced crop plants even with the high mineral fertility that is there? My question is what is vitality and what enlivens it in the soil. James when we get that figured out we will be able to retire on the proceeds. Seriously though I have a couple more questions to add When we test radionically for GV just what are we measuring? And (this one has been rattling around my head for quite a while) Is it really the best thing to treat a crop or seed or whatever so that we wind the GV reading up to the absolute maximum we can get? I guess I am thinking about balance - can we have too much vitality and not enough substance? See I have this picture of a fine bred arab horse that will run until it dies in mid stride - the vitality of spirit is far in excess of its physical ability. Cheers Lloyd Charles
Re: Vitality and fertility ofsoils
I forwarded some of your posts on this thread to JP who is not on the list, but this was his reply to me: A lot of work has been done on the issue of vitality at The Louis Bolk institute, and they developed parameters through the use of chromatograms and crystalizations. It seems like a new frontier to be developed. JS
Re: Vitality and fertility ofsoils
- Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, March 14, 2003 12:28 AM Subject: Re: Vitality and fertility ofsoils In a message dated 3/13/03 7:56:16 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: My question is what is vitality and what enlivens it in the soil. James when we get that figured out we will be able to retire on the proceeds. Are you'all kiddin'??? Put away the radionics instruments, pick up your buckets and stirring sticks insert 500, bc, and equisetum; stir and apply. This will break the needle off of your vitality meter. When you are ready I have several stirring machines available. This has been my hesitation with radionics, field broadcasters, saw-tees, etc. as oposed to conventional bd stirring and spraying and praying. My soils and my clients have an unmistakable vitality that whispers in your ear from across the street, beckoning the observer to come and see, one application does the trick, subsequent apps serve to increase not to break your chops.sstorch I guess that does look kinda dumb when you put it up on its own! Ah well! late nights and junk food will do that. But hey - why does it have to be as opposed to why not 'in concert with' . I dont see this as a competition between different ways of doing things! And as for conventional, I reckon anybody that called Steve Storch conventional would be delivering a huge insult. Cheers Lloyd Charles
Re: Vitality and fertility ofsoils
In a message dated 3/13/03 7:56:16 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: My question is what is vitality and what enlivens it in the soil. James when we get that figured out we will be able to retire on the proceeds. Are you'all kiddin'??? Put away the radionics instruments, pick up your buckets and stirring sticks insert 500, bc, and equisetum; stir and apply. This will break the needle off of your vitality meter. When you are ready I have several stirring machines available. This has been my hesitation with radionics, field broadcasters, saw-tees, etc. as oposed to conventional bd stirring and spraying and praying. My soils and my clients have an unmistakable vitality that whispers in your ear from across the street, beckoning the observer to come and see, one application does the trick, subsequent apps serve to increase not to break your chops.sstorch Dear Steve, Sorry but I left stirring machines out in discussing manual and radionic methods and the enthusiasm of practitioners. Hugh Visit our website at: www.unionag.org
Re: Vitality and fertility ofsoils
- Original Message - From: James Hedley [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2003 9:37 PM Subject: Vitality and fertility ofsoils Dear Lloyd, Steve and fellow list members, In Bruce Copen's Agricultural rates there are the rates for soil testing with Carey Reams techniques. Amongst these rates is one for testing the vitality of the soil. Vitality of the soil seems to not get coverage on BDnow. Maybe one of the reasons is that until I started to research this concept I had never heard of vitality as being measurable parameter of soil. I write this in the hope that some of you who have experience of Reams techniques may be able to enlighten me, or head me in the direction of further areas of study of his methods. Lloyd knows our property, red basalt soil, 3200 cgs on average, averages 6% organic matter, high mineralisation and a dream soil for anyone to start with. There is only one problem, when you test the soils in our cultivation paddocks radionically it gives a reading of about 10% vitality, and the same for fertility. My definition for fertility is the ability of plants grown to reproduce true to type with maximum viability, which is a true reflection of the fertility of the soil. In other words they need to have inbuilt vitality and an inbuilt toughness. Hi James Some of the followers of Carey Reams ideas would tell you that those really good soils like yours are often very difficult to manage when they get out of shape, they are strongly fertile and highly buffered and they resist our efforts to change them in whatever direction we are meaning to move. They can be exploitatively farmed for a long period but then restoration takes equally long, trace element imbalances that dont appear that serious can take a lot of effort to correct etc. When we look at the bush in your area there is a marked lack of diversity compared to poorer soil types nearby, this is something we see all over Australia, in the most fertile soil areas the natural vegetation appears as almost a mono culture (the mitchell grass plains or the riverina floodplain covered with redgum) whereas in the poorest soil types there is an unbeleivable diversity of species (west australias sand plain country or the pilliga for example) maybe this lack of diversity in the original vegetation also supports a restricted microbial species range that makes it difficult to grow some introduced crop plants even with the high mineral fertility that is there? My question is what is vitality and what enlivens it in the soil. James when we get that figured out we will be able to retire on the proceeds. Seriously though I have a couple more questions to add When we test radionically for GV just what are we measuring? And (this one has been rattling around my head for quite a while) Is it really the best thing to treat a crop or seed or whatever so that we wind the GV reading up to the absolute maximum we can get? I guess I am thinking about balance - can we have too much vitality and not enough substance? See I have this picture of a fine bred arab horse that will run until it dies in mid stride - the vitality of spirit is far in excess of its physical ability. Cheers Lloyd Charles
