OT:Learning from the enemy (was Organic food)
...I worked at a petro-chem plant. (So, sue me, I learned a lot there)... Martha - I'll support you: even more than a billion years ago, I worked in a lab that used animals. I didn't do anything that I specifically regret, although I now believe that it was an unnecessary waste of life. However, in arguing against animal experimentation, I am able to be a lot more accurate than many anti-vivisectionists.Tony N-S. _ Express yourself with cool emoticons http://messenger.msn.co.uk
organic food
I think, more than any scientific data on the breakdown of particles of food, if the grower concentrates on becoming the healthiest person he can be, brimming with vitality himself. His farm or orchard or garden (ideally) shimmering with energy and good health, then his customers, his visitors, everyone who comes in contact with him is bound to notice the vast difference between themselves and him. It's like those Bowflex (exercise machine) commercials, by showing viewers how it works for 'them', they can envision what benefits to themselves might be. They could be saying buy my sweaty gym shoes, and you, too will feel the difference. and people will do it just to emulate the people they see (that they want to look and feel like.) If you constantly tell everyone what horrible things chemicals do to our land, our waterways, our foodstuffs, they'll eventually turn it all off. What can I do, after all, what difference does ONE person make? But, if you show them what a difference it makes TO one person, they'll come in for a taste, and probably come back for more. Martha Wells~Flylo Farms~ Texas Zone 8
Re: organic food
Allan - Why not use a refractometer? Have a chart available explaining what Brix is. Challenge your customers to find produce with a higher Brix reading than yours. Ron Ron - As far as I know, objectively speaking, there is no proof that brix represents anything other than a higher sugar content. It tastes good, fer sure. And I personally believe that brix is n indicator of plant health. However, I cannot expect the man on the street to believe that nor, can I, in good conscience, tell him that BRIX readings are meaningful, in the sense we are looking at. -Allan
Re: organic food
From Arden Andersen's Science in Agriculture: It has repeatedly been shown that insect pests are correlated to the nutritional imbalance in the crop and are readily curtailed or eliminated by raising the nutritional density and refractometer reading of the cropSome people contend that the refractometer is not a valid indicator of plant and soil health. In every case I have encountered in which a consultant, farmer or fertilizer dealer has made such a statement, I have found that he has been unable to get the refractometer reading of the crop to increase and therefore contends that the concept of using a refractometer to assess plant and soil health was invalid.(191). Within a given species of plant, the crop with the higher refractive index will have a higher sugar content, higher mineral content, higher protein content and a higher specific gravity or density. This adds up to a sweeter tasting, more minerally nutritious food with a lower nitrate and water content and better storage. (362). But maybe Andersen's too much of a fringe 'expert'!? -Original Message- From: Allan Balliett [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wednesday, March 12, 2003 12:48 PM Subject: Re: organic food Allan - Why not use a refractometer? Have a chart available explaining what Brix is. Challenge your customers to find produce with a higher Brix reading than yours. Ron Ron - As far as I know, objectively speaking, there is no proof that brix represents anything other than a higher sugar content. It tastes good, fer sure. And I personally believe that brix is n indicator of plant health. However, I cannot expect the man on the street to believe that nor, can I, in good conscience, tell him that BRIX readings are meaningful, in the sense we are looking at. -Allan
Organic food with higher Brix
Dear Allan Sorry for my intromission , Brix , mesures all solids that are soluble on the plant not only the sugars , including minerals, protein , these with the higher sugar give a sweeter tasting if soil is in god conditions , crops with higher Brix produce more alcool for the micobiology , tastes better , are more insects resistant, and better shelf life. But in grass witch I work is hard to extract the liquid sample, normaly you use the intermidiate leaf of the pant. Reams realy worked with this indicater , it?s e excelent help on the field.For my experience here in Brazil normal frech milk reads +/- 12 , animals that are in a Organic managment can read +/- 14 and have a clear line witch is related to stabilaty on the liquid .I know it?s hard but the man that is in the field begains to convince himself and than he goes to tell the outhers.In The book Farming for the 21 century there is a lot of information. Sorry again , and also for my spelling , Alberto Machado Allan - Why not use a refractometer? Have a chart available explaining what Brix is. Challenge your customers to find produce with a higher Brix reading than yours. Ron Ron - As far as I know, objectively speaking, there is no proof that brix represents anything other than a higher sugar content. It tastes good, fer sure. And I personally believe that brix is n indicator of plant health. However, I cannot expect the man on the street to believe that nor, can I, in good conscience, tell him that BRIX readings are meaningful, in the sense we are looking at. -Allan
Re: Organic food with higher Brix
From: Alberto Machado Sorry for my intromission , Brix , mesures all solids that are soluble on the plant not only the sugars , including minerals, protein , these with the higher sugar give a sweeter tasting if soil is in god conditions , crops with higher Brix produce more alcool for the micobiology , tastes better , are more insects resistant, and better shelf life. But in grass witch I work is hard to extract the liquid sample, normaly you use the intermidiate leaf of the pant. Hi Alberto Thanks for your contribution on brix - do not worry about your spelling you bring us good information - keep up the good work. We use the refractometer a lot and if you are having trouble getting a sap sample from grass plants I use a pair of modified vice grip pliers that work really well. If you like to send me a fax number offlist then I can fax you the drawing of these pliers and you could make a pair. (or have some made) They dont cost much to make and really do work. Cheers Lloyd Charles
Re: organic food
I should have thought of this earlier - the best argument for biologically grown foods that I've heard in a while was a presentation given by Jerry Brunetti at Acres this past year titled go to the Farm, not the Pharmacy. Tape of the talk available from Acres. The May 2002 issue of Acres had an interview with Jerry and a copy can be found on the Acres web site in the 'tool box' section. -Original Message- From: Allan Balliett [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tuesday, March 11, 2003 10:31 PM Subject: Re: organic food But don't look for more studies as the magic elixir that will make a difference; go get all the studies and concepts that already exist and you will have a powerful statement, as is. Steve - Without the studies, everything you mention can be brushed off as advertising. My request doesn't come out of thin air, it is the request of someone who is actively marketing locally and has been doing it for some time. It is also the request of a person who is standing separate from federal organic certification who feels that he should have at least a few studies to show the superiority of food that's grown WITH nature rather than wrested out of Nature. I don't want to make 'promises' to people, I want to show them that what I 'believe' can actually be demonstrated, either through trials or through lab work. Where are these studies that you speak of? I hope you have a list of them because I have yet to find any that show a substantial enough difference between BD food and conventional food for me to be anything but embarassed because I talk about our food being superior. I also work with pastured livestock. I have to tell you that the documentation posted at EatWild.com does an incredible job of clinching sales. People can related to concepts like CLAs readily. Pretty soon, they know exacty what is missing in chainstore foods. That's what I want: something I can point at that substantially differentiates 'our food' from 'theirs.' Here I'm talking about talking to people who cannot see, touch, smell or taste our wonderful, delicate produce. -Allan
Re: organic food
About a billion years ago (1972 to be exact) I worked in Houston at a petro-chem plant. (So, sue me, I learned a lot there.) One of the scientists developed his own strain of 'bugs', those enzymes that devoured the chemicals in the outflow water ponds. (bug ponds, I found I had a real gift in keeping these 'bugs' alive and healthy.) Anyhow, during his experiments, he was not allowed to describe anything according to smell, taste, texture. Everything HAD to be according to preordained formulations that anyone could read and understand. At the time I really griped about the unnecessary regulations but now, I think I see how it would benefit even the biodynamic producers. SEE the depth of color, not allowed. SMELL the aroma of healthy herbs and produce, kicked out. Because it's not a universal test. I don't know the universal tests for the standards, but I'm just playing devil's advocate in anyone's findings (before the naysayers can do it.) If they can't prove it in a test tube or petrie dish, it's probably not going to hold up unless the 'real world' recognises the value of intangible things. Martha Wells~Flylo Farms~ Texas Zone 8
Fwd: Organic food has more healthy compounds
Folks - I'd appreciate it if you'd pass any information like this to BD Now! or to me personally. As you are probably aware, there is not a strong body of information supporting the health promoting superiority of organically grown food. We all know it in our hearts and through our personal experiences. It's nice to have other information to point at for the skeptical (or to back up the undocumented claims on my webpage! ;-) Thanks _Allan Status: RO X-Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 23:19:23 -0500 To: Northeast Food System Partnership [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: George Mokray [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Organic food has more healthy compounds Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED] X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=10.0 tests=none version=2.43 X-Spam-Level: from http://www.planetark.org/dailynewsstory.cfm/newsid/20112/story.htm Organic food has more healthy compounds - US report USA: March 11, 2003 WASHINGTON - Organically grown crops contain more healthy compounds than conventional crops, perhaps because they are not exposed to pesticides, U.S. researchers reported. Tests on organically and sustainably grown berries and corn showed they contain up to 58 percent more polyphenolics, compounds that act as antioxidants and may protect cells against damage that can lead to heart disease and cancer. Organic food is grown without chemical pesticides or fertilizers. Sustainably grown food is grown without artificial pesticides. This really opens the door to more research in this area, said Alyson Mitchell, an assistant professor of food science at the University of California, Davis, who led the study. Her team compared levels of total polyphenolics and ascorbic acid content in blackberries, strawberries and corn grown organically, sustainably or conventionally. The team found that blackberries grown sustainably or organically and then frozen contained 50 percent to 58 percent more polyphenolics than conventionally grown crops from neighboring plots. Sustainably grown frozen strawberries contained 19 percent more polyphenolics than conventional fruit. Sustainably grown and organic produce also had more ascorbic acid, which the body converts to vitamin C, Mitchell's team reported in the Journal of Agricultural and Food Chemistry. The polyphenolics in the organic crops were at levels seen in wild plants, Mitchell said, suggesting that plants treated with pesticides need to make less of the chemicals. Plants make vitamins, polyphenolics and other antioxidants to protect themselves from dangers such as pests and drought. Many studies show that eating plenty of fruits and vegetables can reduce the risk of heart disease, cancer and other disease. Polyphenolics are believed to be one reason. We know they're beneficial, but we don't know what types of polyphenolics are beneficial, or in what quantities, Mitchell said. REUTERS NEWS SERVICE
organic food
Anyone that believes that organic food is not healthier than conventional food is inherently stupid and a victim of multi-national disinformationbut as you said Allan this is a personal expression with no hard evidence behind it. So people pool your resources of information and lets give them a reason for their small minds to believe. Peace Eric
Re: organic food
- Original Message - From: Eric Myren [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2003 3:31 AM Subject: organic food Anyone that believes that organic food is not healthier than conventional food is inherently stupid and a victim of multi-national disinformation Eric - they are only as dumb as those that think that ALL organic food is better than ALL non organic food - we need to make the distinction between food grown to minimum organic certification standards and properly grown organic food with trace mineral integrity and high energy. BIG difference!! Lloyd Charles
Re: organic food
Eric - they are only as dumb as those that think that ALL organic food is better than ALL non organic food - we need to make the distinction between food grown to minimum organic certification standards and properly grown organic food with trace mineral integrity and high energy. BIG difference!! Lloyd Charles Thanks, Lloyd. Until we can establish that the food we produce biodynamically is substantially superior nutritionally to conventional agriculture products, we will be tied the artificially low prices of supermarket foods. We will also be sharing the same market with them. We all know we do have a different product. I, for one, do not believe that we have proven this to the satisfaction of enough people to make the difference in the minds of the buying public that we need to make so that farming small holdings biodynamically is economically viable. We simply are not selling the same thing that agribusiness is growing. Without 'studies' documenting, though, the man on the street feels like a 'sucker' if they pay more for our produce, or even go out of their way to do so. I know. I see it all the time. -Allan
Re: organic food
It seems to me there are plenty of papers summarizing concepts and research results in the BD literature. BD has even developed a series of qualitative bioassay methods to understand the quality of soils, composts, and foods. It seems to me people either value BD foods as it stands right now, or they don't. More data is not going to make a lot of difference. Connecting farms to local consumers will make an economic difference. Institutional food buying is a prominent new market, from the foodshed perspective. Appeal to young women about their beauty and their physical appearance. We are growing fatter as a population. Connect BD food with radiant health. Link BD food with yoga and excerise. Appeal to young men about their sexual reproductive capacity. Sperm counts are dropping. Young men today are half the man their grand-daddy was. Appeal to young mothers about pesticide-free vegetables and fruits for their young children. Studies now prove that pesticide residues bring significant risk to the health of infants and children to age 12. Appeal to cancer patients, for the healing quality of BD foods. Appeal to holistic health practitioners, to emphasize BD foods to their patients. But don't look for more studies as the magic elixir that will make a difference; go get all the studies and concepts that already exist and you will have a powerful statement, as is. Steve Diver
Re: organic food
But don't look for more studies as the magic elixir that will make a difference; go get all the studies and concepts that already exist and you will have a powerful statement, as is. Steve - Without the studies, everything you mention can be brushed off as advertising. My request doesn't come out of thin air, it is the request of someone who is actively marketing locally and has been doing it for some time. It is also the request of a person who is standing separate from federal organic certification who feels that he should have at least a few studies to show the superiority of food that's grown WITH nature rather than wrested out of Nature. I don't want to make 'promises' to people, I want to show them that what I 'believe' can actually be demonstrated, either through trials or through lab work. Where are these studies that you speak of? I hope you have a list of them because I have yet to find any that show a substantial enough difference between BD food and conventional food for me to be anything but embarassed because I talk about our food being superior. I also work with pastured livestock. I have to tell you that the documentation posted at EatWild.com does an incredible job of clinching sales. People can related to concepts like CLAs readily. Pretty soon, they know exacty what is missing in chainstore foods. That's what I want: something I can point at that substantially differentiates 'our food' from 'theirs.' Here I'm talking about talking to people who cannot see, touch, smell or taste our wonderful, delicate produce. -Allan
Re: organic food
Hi guys! At the risk of being off-topic, this article just came my way about a UC Davis study. Organic veggies produced more antioxidents, and absorbic acid. Now those are things mainstream people are hearing about and know they need more of. I know its not BD but it seems to be what you mention, Allan. Christy Organic food has more healthy compounds - US report WASHINGTON - Organically grown crops contain more healthy compounds than conventional crops, perhaps because they are not exposed to pesticides, U.S. researchers reported. Tests on organically and sustainably grown berries and corn showed they contain up to 58 percent more polyphenolics, compounds that act as antioxidants and may protect cells against damage that can lead to heart disease and cancer. Organic food is grown without chemical pesticides or fertilizers. Sustainably grown food is grown without artificial pesticides. This really opens the door to more research in this area, said Alyson Mitchell, an assistant professor of food science at the University of California, Davis, who led the study. Her team compared levels of total polyphenolics and ascorbic acid content in blackberries, strawberries and corn grown organically, sustainably or conventionally. The team found that blackberries grown sustainably or organically and then frozen contained 50 percent to 58 percent more polyphenolics than conventionally grown crops from neighboring plots. Sustainably grown frozen strawberries contained 19 percent more polyphenolics than conventional fruit. Sustainably grown and organic produce also had more ascorbic acid, which the body converts to vitamin C, Mitchell's team reported in the Journal of Agricultural and Food Chemistry. The polyphenolics in the organic crops were at levels seen in wild plants, Mitchell said, suggesting that plants treated with pesticides need to make less of the chemicals. Plants make vitamins, polyphenolics and other antioxidants to protect themselves from dangers such as pests and drought. Many studies show that eating plenty of fruits and vegetables can reduce the risk of heart disease, cancer and other disease. Polyphenolics are believed to be one reason. We know they're beneficial, but we don't know what types of polyphenolics are beneficial, or in what quantities, Mitchell said. Story Date: 11/3/2003 Back to Top Back to Headlines See yesterday's headlines 29ad0d.jpg All Contents © Reuters News Service 2002
Re: organic food
As a very quick reply meaning, no documentation just how to do it. Get Benbrooks paper from EcoFarm. It has all the data on pesticide residues and children. It is an essential document. Get Virginia Worthington's paper. See the summary on mineral depletion in foods. Make a connect between these minerals and the five major disease killers, and notice that some of these same lacking minerals are important biochemical regulators. See the new information on phytochemicals, nutraceuticals, and functional foods. Gain understanding of holism in whole foods vs food broken apart by processing or by making active ingredient extracts for pharmaceutical sales. The UC-Davis paper was about polyphenolics; i.e., phytochemicals. A lot is emerging on this. Again, holism is the key. See Alan Kapuler's researh on amino acids and genetics. See all the other research from Soil Association, Et al gather a bunch of different pieces together. Now get into BD qualitative assessment methods: circular chromatography, sensitive crystallization or better known these days as biocrystallization, and capillary dynamolysis. Now get into water quality assessment methods and tie together water as a carrier of information and energetic quality to the vital quality of foods. Talk about organic foods and what they offer: *pesticide free *sewage-sludge free *GMO free *toxic-laden commercial fertilizer free *etc Now you got it. It is all woven together. Now you got a Powerful picture. Steve Diver Allan Balliett wrote: But don't look for more studies as the magic elixir that will make a difference; go get all the studies and concepts that already exist and you will have a powerful statement, as is. Steve - Without the studies, everything you mention can be brushed off as advertising. My request doesn't come out of thin air, it is the request of someone who is actively marketing locally and has been doing it for some time. It is also the request of a person who is standing separate from federal organic certification who feels that he should have at least a few studies to show the superiority of food that's grown WITH nature rather than wrested out of Nature. I don't want to make 'promises' to people, I want to show them that what I 'believe' can actually be demonstrated, either through trials or through lab work. Where are these studies that you speak of? I hope you have a list of them because I have yet to find any that show a substantial enough difference between BD food and conventional food for me to be anything but embarassed because I talk about our food being superior. I also work with pastured livestock. I have to tell you that the documentation posted at EatWild.com does an incredible job of clinching sales. People can related to concepts like CLAs readily. Pretty soon, they know exacty what is missing in chainstore foods. That's what I want: something I can point at that substantially differentiates 'our food' from 'theirs.' Here I'm talking about talking to people who cannot see, touch, smell or taste our wonderful, delicate produce. -Allan
Re: organic food
I know its not BD but it seems to be what you mention, Allan. Christy Thanks for your efforts, Christy, however redundant.'-} I'm not just looking for BD documentation. Studies like this, in which unexpected benefits are demonstrated, are exactly what I'm looking for. There are so many ways that plants can be better for humans when they are raised in environments that allow them to 'revert to Nature.' (Still reading that Podolinsky!) Keep 'em coming! -Allan
Re: organic food
Now you got a Powerful picture. Now you're talking! Anything new from Worthington? Sorry, but I found her studies from a few years back to be rather insignificant. She once advised me to do animal studies if I wanted to prove the superiority of organic food. And then she recommended that the animals be insects. Surely, insects will grow larger faster on organic food, will they not? (She asked.) What about Al Kapuler? Has the new Journal come out? To be frank, even Sally Fallon questions the validity of his amino acid studies, so, they are hard to pass on. Point well taken, however? Thanks for these pointers, Steve! A great ATTRA project, to pull all this together, no? Should I send in a request?? Thanks -Allan
Re: organic food
Nobody mentioned taste yet! Allan - if you had some samples of supermarket produce alongside yours, and the taste was chalk and cheese (in favour of yours of course) how many of your customers would then complain about the price? Just a thought Lloyd Charles
Re: organic food
Nobody mentioned taste yet! Allan - if you had some samples of supermarket produce alongside yours, and the taste was chalk and cheese (in favour of yours of course) how many of your customers would then complain about the price? Right you are, of course, but, actually, Lloyd, the tongue that is accustomed to over sweetened processed foods cannot necessarily appreciate the value of real food. My challenge is to communicate with customers that I have yet to meet and who have yet to meet fresh, authentic produce. Thanks again -Allan
Re: organic food
If one looks at the health factor of herds of dairy cows even in N.Z. it is remarkable the difference in vet costs and how quickly that change can take place, one can be in no doubt that consuming organic foods are conciderably more beneficial to the health of the consumer. With dairy cows one is dealing with a shorter life span than for humans. Cows can not hop on their bikes and go down town for their favourite fast food meal!! like humans can so that makes a study much easier to monitor. They haven't got access to the supermarket and all the tempting bargains either. I don't know of anyone who has done such a study at university level, do you? Perhaps someone can persuade a student to look at this question for a Master Of Science degree. My partner Gill is looking at the nutritional aspects of organic v/s conventional with lettuces as the study plant and reports amoung other things that protein is significantly ellevated where the biodynamic remedies have been used. She should be finnished her degree at the end of June. We are having autumn in N.Z. and in our part good heavy autumn rain has arrived right on shedule for golden queen peach harvest. Like many soft and stone fruit that get good rain just before harvest time splitting and rotting procede apace. This year I got busy with one of the sprays we make in the lab. (Glen Atkinson's sprays are now being marketed as B.D.Max by a new sales company of that name). Root max in the afternoon and Ripemax in the morning. The splitting slowed right down then stopped.I picked most of the fruit for bottleing. The first run had a brix of seven, the last two 16 and fifteen. No sugar or honey was used and all the fruit looked green before peeling and many after peeling too. A few leaves of stevia were added to each brew. When chopped up less than a level teaspoon. Without the use of these homoeopathic remedies I would have expected to loose more than half the fruit to brown rot. Only a few missed the bottle altogether and I had to cut bits off a few. Regards, Peter. - Original Message - From: Eric Myren [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2003 5:31 AM Subject: organic food Anyone that believes that organic food is not healthier than conventional food is inherently stupid and a victim of multi-national disinformationbut as you said Allan this is a personal expression with no hard evidence behind it. So people pool your resources of information and lets give them a reason for their small minds to believe. Peace Eric
City Passes Ordinance to Ban Non-Organic Food
Non-Organically Produced Food could not be sold in the town of Vedic City, Iowa, if a draft ordinance is adopted by City Officials, according to a December 4 Associated Press Report, carried on December 4 by the Des Moines TV Station, WHOTV, which states: " ... Officials in a southeast Iowa community have passed the first reading of an ordinance that outlaws the sale of non-organic food in the city limits. The Vedic City Council ordinance outlaws genetically modified food and anything not grown organically. The founders of the city are followers of Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, leader of the Transcendental Meditation movement and founder of the Maharishi University of Management in nearby Fairfield. The ordinance was suggested after several city residents reported allergic reactions after recent crop dusting on nearby farms. Non-organic food purchased outside of the city could still be legally eaten under the ordinance. The ordinance must pass two more readings before it becomes law ..." - The report is posted at http://www.whotv.com/global/story.asp?s=1036677ClientType=Printable Des Monies, Iowa WHOTV Station Report posted at http://www.whotv.com/global/story.asp?s=1036677ClientType=Printable City Passes Ordinance to Ban Non-Organic Food Vedic City, December 4, 2002 - Officials in a southeast Iowa community have passed the first reading of an ordinance that outlaws the sale of non-organic food in the city limits. The Vedic City Council ordinance outlaws genetically modified food and anything not grown organically. The founders of the city are followers of Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, leader of the Transcendental Meditation movement and founder of the Maharishi University of Management in nearby Fairfield. The ordinance was suggested after several city residents reported allergic reactions after recent crop dusting on nearby farms. Non-organic food purchased outside of the city could still be legally eaten under the ordinance. The ordinance must pass two more readings before it becomes law.Copyright 2002 Associated Press
