Re: Perl Beginners Portals
R. Joseph Newton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Todd Wade wrote: I'm willing to pester the site owners to let you do the site. But it will probably take more than just you and I. The lack of responses to your OP might indicate the amount of help the rest of the group is willing to contribute. I think you may be misinterpreting the silence. Although the OP makes a very positive offer of his efforts, he does not communicte it very well. Unfortunately, he starts off with a litany of what is wrong with... which tends to turn people away before they get to the proposal itself. I was. I got a couple emails referring me to the archive of the OP's thread in perl.advocacy. There were many suggestions made by him to fix things that were not broken. If I had read that thread, I wouldve ignored the post also. As I was replying to it, I was thinking of something simple like a faq of faqs. Now I understand he what is proposing is just too grandiose and unimplementable for the resources we have available. Im _glad_ nobody else responded so it didn't start over again. FWIW, the core group of helpers posting here is generally hroic in its patience and energy, with an emphasis on the former. While I cetainly agree that new members should read the FAQ and at least skim the archives before asking a repetitive question, that is somewhat to be expected on a list targeted toward beginners. On this mailing list, we expect a certain amount of repitition. Some of us may remind posters that they should read the archives and other traffic on the list, but that is usually not the top priority. Oh I agree. I dont mind the repetitive posting. As you say, this list is for perl curious people to ask anything they want ( about perl ) without being criticized for it. Although I have noticed a small few taking advantage of that fact. Just a small few, though. Not near enough to affect me. snip / So what exactly is learn.perl.org, anyway? I am subscribed to, and received this message through, the beginners-perl mailing list, [EMAIL PROTECTED]. I use http://www.perl.org/ for my perl portal, and it has many virtual hosts there. For instance, check out http://datetime.perl.org/ or http://use.perl.org/. Along with the mailing lists from that domain, there is also an nntp server there. I am replying to your mailing list submission using outlook newsgroups connected to perl.beginners on nntp.perl.org. There's software running that posts all your messages to the news server, and also emails all my posts to the list subscribers. Pretty slick, really. Its increased the amount of questions I respond to, because I hate mailing lists. Todd W. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Perl Beginners Portals
On Thu, 2 Oct 2003, Todd Wade wrote: R. Joseph Newton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Todd Wade wrote: I'm willing to pester the site owners to let you do the site. But it will probably take more than just you and I. The lack of responses to your OP might indicate the amount of help the rest of the group is willing to contribute. I think you may be misinterpreting the silence. Although the OP makes a very positive offer of his efforts, he does not communicte it very well. Unfortunately, he starts off with a litany of what is wrong with... which tends to turn people away before they get to the proposal itself. I was. I got a couple emails referring me to the archive of the OP's thread in perl.advocacy. There were many suggestions made by him to fix things that were not broken. If I had read that thread, I wouldve ignored the post also. As I was replying to it, I was thinking of something simple like a faq of faqs. Now I understand he what is proposing is just too grandiose and unimplementable for the resources we have available. Im _glad_ nobody else responded so it didn't start over again. What I'm suggesting is not too grandoise or unimplementable. In any case, what I suggested regarding the Perl world in general, has little to do with learn.perl.org vs. perl-begin.berlios.de. I find learn.perl.org inadequate as the main community portal for people who are trying to learn Perl. I have constructed perl-begin.berlios.de which is much better. I am willing to perform some work on learn.perl.org to make it better. However, I cannot because I don't have access to its source code, and its maintainers have not been responsive lately. The other suggestions in regard to the Perl world in general are not directly related to my recent post to this list. And if you think my suggestions are grandoise, you have to take into account that I prepared perl-begin all by myself, with some input by other people (which I still had to input into the site). And I am a university student and have many other endeavours as well. [1] FWIW, the core group of helpers posting here is generally hroic in its patience and energy, with an emphasis on the former. While I cetainly agree that new members should read the FAQ and at least skim the archives before asking a repetitive question, that is somewhat to be expected on a list targeted toward beginners. On this mailing list, we expect a certain amount of repitition. Some of us may remind posters that they should read the archives and other traffic on the list, but that is usually not the top priority. Oh I agree. I dont mind the repetitive posting. As you say, this list is for perl curious people to ask anything they want ( about perl ) without being criticized for it. Although I have noticed a small few taking advantage of that fact. Just a small few, though. Not near enough to affect me. I agree here too. One cannot expect beginners to read the FAQ or skim through the archives, or search Google. They may not be aware of netiquette as more experienced people are. I think having one global list for all newbie questions is not such a good idea, because the volume is quite overwhelming. However, in any such list, one should be prepared to answer as many of these questions as possible, times and again. That's also a reason in support of having several separate mailing lists: you get to hear the same old question less. Regards, Shlomi Fish [1] - and please - how hard it is to designate #perl as the channel for newbie discussions and to move the advanced discussions and talk to #perlcafe? Not hard at all. -- Shlomi Fish[EMAIL PROTECTED] Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/ An apple a day will keep a doctor away. Two apples a day will keep two doctors away. Falk Fish -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Perl Beginners Portals
Todd Wade wrote: I'm willing to pester the site owners to let you do the site. But it will probably take more than just you and I. The lack of responses to your OP might indicate the amount of help the rest of the group is willing to contribute. I think you may be misinterpreting the silence. Although the OP makes a very positive offer of his efforts, he does not communicte it very well. Unfortunately, he starts off with a litany of what is wrong with... which tends to turn people away before they get to the proposal itself. FWIW, the core group of helpers posting here is generally hroic in its patience and energy, with an emphasis on the former. While I cetainly agree that new members should read the FAQ and at least skim the archives before asking a repetitive question, that is somewhat to be expected on a list targeted toward beginners. On this mailing list, we expect a certain amount of repitition. Some of us may remind posters that they should read the archives and other traffic on the list, but that is usually not the top priority. The most consistent advice we provide is: use strict; use warnings; and this approach, at least for those who have real potential for success as programmers, bears good fruit. Once a student learns to accept the guidance of that harsh but fair taskmaster, the compiler, he or she hits upon a treasury of assistance immediately in front of his or herself. So what exactly is learn.perl.org, anyway? I am subscribed to, and received this message through, the beginners-perl mailing list, [EMAIL PROTECTED]. Joseph -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Perl Beginners Portals
Shlomi Fish [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi all! I believe learn.perl.org is very lacking: 1. Its design is ugly. agreed 2. No links to many important online resources such as tutorials, books, article collections, mailing lists, web forums, etc. Well, there are alot there, but they dont seem to be organized in any coherent way. 3. Concentration on commercial books. When content is not added regularly this is what happens to a free site. 4. No source code for the site is available and [EMAIL PROTECTED] are not responsive. This is very bad 5. Pretty much unmaintained for a long time. Seems that way. Still, it has a pretty good Google popularity. I did my best to resolve the problems inherent in it by setting up http://perl-begin.berlios.de/. The site could still use some work, but it's still better than learn.perl.org. Nevertheless, I would want to see learn.perl.org becoming better. When I started the perl-begin effort the beginners-workers decided I will do a re-design of the learn.perl.org. After I was more or less finished, I did not receive any reply when I tried to contact them. So I had no choice but to set up my own site. I'm willing to pester the site owners to let you do the site. But it will probably take more than just you and I. The lack of responses to your OP might indicate the amount of help the rest of the group is willing to contribute. I want to see full blown articles to FAQs on this list. For instance, there seems to be a growing trend where every other question is how to put subroutines in thier own file so they can be reused. A thorough but simple article to refer our beginners to will get them reusing code in a consistent manner. Then, when they have questions about the articles we refer them to, at least we'll know where they are coming from. Im glad our beginners are starting to think about code reuse, but I'm disappointed that they have not learned how to review previous discussions on their subject before posting. If they were doing this, the questions would get more complicated and progressive, instead of the same question over and over. I'm willing to donate 4 or 5 hrs a month for articles. Ive been thinking about it lately anyway. Since you have a beautiful site put together, they would go well together. Perhaps your site can become the perl.beginners.* home page? Casey, any thoughts? Todd W. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Perl Beginners Portals
Hi all! I believe learn.perl.org is very lacking: 1. Its design is ugly. 2. No links to many important online resources such as tutorials, books, article collections, mailing lists, web forums, etc. 3. Concentration on commercial books. 4. No source code for the site is available and [EMAIL PROTECTED] are not responsive. 5. Pretty much unmaintained for a long time. Still, it has a pretty good Google popularity. I did my best to resolve the problems inherent in it by setting up http://perl-begin.berlios.de/. The site could still use some work, but it's still better than learn.perl.org. Nevertheless, I would want to see learn.perl.org becoming better. When I started the perl-begin effort the beginners-workers decided I will do a re-design of the learn.perl.org. After I was more or less finished, I did not receive any reply when I tried to contact them. So I had no choice but to set up my own site. What are your opinions about the two sites? How can we make learn.perl.org better? Regards, Shlomi Fish -- Shlomi Fish[EMAIL PROTECTED] Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/ An apple a day will keep a doctor away. Two apples a day will keep two doctors away. Falk Fish -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
