Re: [Ankur-core] [Proposal] Changing the assignment of ZWNJ in Probhat
On 4/30/07, das [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sun, 2007-04-29 at 15:18 +0600, Jamil Ahmed wrote: [ `] = ZWNJ [~] = ZWJ +1 Anyone else? DS/SDG/RunaB/Golam/Others?? (Can't remember a single instance when needed it while writing any Bangla text) :) - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Bengalinux-core mailing list Bengalinux-core@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bengalinux-core
Re: [Ankur-core] [Proposal] Changing the assignment of ZWNJ in Probhat
Jamil Ahmed wrote: On 4/30/07, das [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sun, 2007-04-29 at 15:18 +0600, Jamil Ahmed wrote: [ `] = ZWNJ [~] = ZWJ +1 Anyone else? DS/SDG/RunaB/Golam/Others?? I guess I had proposed this..mostly for the ra-japhala issue as mentioned by sayam. [~] = ZWNJ [ `] = ZWJ I'd still go with this. The ZWJ is currently on shift+= (or +) and it'll be easier to write, if it doesn't need a shift key. regards Runa - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Bengalinux-core mailing list Bengalinux-core@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bengalinux-core
Re: [Ankur-core] [Proposal] Changing the assignment of ZWNJ in Probhat
On 08/05/07, das [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: '~' for ZWNJ FYI, the tilde (four of it) is used for signing ones user name in wikipedia. Note: Couldn't follow the thread, missed the entire conversation. -- ভাল থাকেন mak --- First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win. - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Bengalinux-core mailing list Bengalinux-core@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bengalinux-core
Re: [Ankur-core] [Proposal] Changing the assignment of ZWNJ in Probhat
On 5/8/07, Runa B [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jamil Ahmed wrote: On 4/30/07, das [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sun, 2007-04-29 at 15:18 +0600, Jamil Ahmed wrote: [ `] = ZWNJ [~] = ZWJ +1 Anyone else? DS/SDG/RunaB/Golam/Others?? I guess I had proposed this..mostly for the ra-japhala issue as mentioned by sayam. [~] = ZWNJ [ `] = ZWJ I'd still go with this. The ZWJ is currently on shift+= (or +) and it'll be easier to write, if it doesn't need a shift key. I'm not sure I understand. Are you proposing that we have the rarely used (only for ra-japhala) ZWJ bound to a non-shift key and the fairly common ZWNJ bound to a shift key? Why? Why are we not trying to use [\]? It seems pointless to have it free. -Deepayan - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Bengalinux-core mailing list Bengalinux-core@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bengalinux-core
Re: [Ankur-core] [Proposal] Changing the assignment of ZWNJ in Probhat
On 4/25/07, Deepayan Sarkar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: BTW, why is hasanta / and not \ ? Since, usability is the main issue, I also agree with Deepayan on relocation of 'hasant'. [ \ ] intuitaviely resembles more like actual hasanta than current [ / ]. Moreover, It seems that people want both ZWJ and ZWNJ in non-shift charracters. so I suggest [ ` ] = ZWJ( like roof... both under the same roof ... JOINER) [ / ] = ZWNJ ( like wall...a wall between them ... NON-JOINER) [ \ ] = HASANTA( Closely resembles actual hasanta...) :-) As it could be a major upgrade for Probhat layout, it would be nice if people post their other concerns/comments/usability issues that they might have!! Cheers, Golam - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Bengalinux-core mailing list Bengalinux-core@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bengalinux-core
Re: [Ankur-core] [Proposal] Changing the assignment of ZWNJ in Probhat
On 09/05/07, Golam Mortuza Hossain [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As it could be a major upgrade for Probhat layout, it would be nice if people post their other concerns/comments/usability issues that they might have!! If possible think about the dot / fullstop / period symbol; to get this either go to numeric keypad, or change the layout into English again. -- ভাল থাকেন mak --- First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win. - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Bengalinux-core mailing list Bengalinux-core@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bengalinux-core
Re: [Ankur-core] [Proposal] Changing the assignment of ZWNJ in Probhat
On 5/8/07, mak [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 09/05/07, Golam Mortuza Hossain [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As it could be a major upgrade for Probhat layout, it would be nice if people post their other concerns/comments/usability issues that they might have!! If possible think about the dot / fullstop / period symbol; to get this either go to numeric keypad, or change the layout into English again. I would say | (vertical bar) is the more intuitive daanri symbol, but then we'll have to find something for double-daanri. Here's another idea that may or may not be worth pursuing: X has (or at least had) this concept of groups -- in fact what used to happen when you switched a layout was you moved to a new group. (I'm speaking in the past tense because there has been some restructuring with the Xorg move and I'm not sure if this has changed). The interesting thing was that even though a single keystroke could only emit one character, it could also change the group. I used this feature to fake a finite state machine and created a modified probhat layout that had the same key bound to different code points depending on context. So, for example, vowel keys like u would be bound to উ in state 1 and ু in state 2. Pressing any consonant key would change the state to 2. Pressing any vowel key would change to state 1, etc. The advantage of this is that (1) it's more intuitive and (2) frees up more keys. I gave up on using this after moving to Xorg because my old layout changing commands didn't work any more and I couldn't figure out how to fix it. I'm not sure if it's at all possible now, but if it is and if others are interested, this could be the basis of an alternative layout. -Deepayan - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Bengalinux-core mailing list Bengalinux-core@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bengalinux-core
Re: [Ankur-core] [Proposal] Changing the assignment of ZWNJ in Probhat
On 5/8/07, Omi Azad [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jamil Ahmed wrote: Yes, we can use [`] and [\], both without pressing shift key. :-)) If you are thinking for [\] then I suggest \ = ZWNJ :) Agreed. -Deepayan - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Bengalinux-core mailing list Bengalinux-core@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bengalinux-core
Re: [Ankur-core] [Proposal] Changing the assignment of ZWNJ in Probhat
On Tue, 2007-05-08 at 11:14 -0700, Deepayan Sarkar wrote: Hope that helps. Yeah, it helped. Thank you for this. Why don't you write a good Bangla primer on these things and related matters? Can you suggest me a bit more documentation on Unicode and Bangla, not very technical though, I am no developer. Not those on the unicode-org site. Is there any? Good but simple and short? Why don't you write one in Bangla? - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Bengalinux-core mailing list Bengalinux-core@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bengalinux-core
Re: [Ankur-core] [Proposal] Changing the assignment of ZWNJ in Probhat
On Tue, 2007-05-08 at 14:43 -0400, Golam Mortuza Hossain wrote: Since, usability is the main issue, I also agree with Deepayan on relocation of 'hasant'. [ \ ] intuitaviely resembles more like actual hasanta than current [ / ]. This point has occurred to me too, time and again. If [\] does anything, that should be 'hasanta'. But there is a problem. While typing, all the more used things should always be within the three main rows. Use of 'hasanta' is not at all that common in modern Bangla, but the other job that is done by [/] now is conjoining, and that is pretty common, almost once every word in average, or even more than that. And moving just the little finger of the right hand helps in keeping up the speed, that will not be true for [\], every time for a conjoined letter right palm will get physically moved, when the bases of both the palms are fixed on the table, that is the natural position of the palms, and the healthy one for typing for long periods of time (ergonomic too). By just stretching the right little finger you cannot get [\]. You have to move it. This is true for both the keyboards I use, the TVS-Gold (it is a quite reputed one) and even the cramped keyboard of the Acer Aspire 3002 laptop. So, I think it will be true for any keyboard. This speed thing is so very important for the heavy bulk Bangla writers. So, I think, in no way it will be prudent at all to give the conjoining function to the [\] key. -1 - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Bengalinux-core mailing list Bengalinux-core@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bengalinux-core
Re: [Ankur-core] [Proposal] Changing the assignment of ZWNJ in Probhat
das wrote: On Tue, 2007-05-08 at 14:43 -0400, Golam Mortuza Hossain wrote: Since, usability is the main issue, I also agree with Deepayan on relocation of 'hasant'. [ \ ] intuitaviely resembles more like actual hasanta than current [ / ]. This point has occurred to me too, time and again. If [\] does anything, that should be 'hasanta'. But there is a problem. While typing, all the more used things should always be within the three main rows. Use of 'hasanta' is not at all that common in modern Bangla, but the other job that is done by [/] now is conjoining, and that is pretty common, almost once every word in average, or even more than that. And moving just the little finger of the right hand helps in keeping up the speed, that will not be true for [\], every time for a conjoined letter right palm will get physically moved, when the bases of both the palms are fixed on the table, that is the natural position of the palms, and the healthy one for typing for long periods of time (ergonomic too). By just stretching the right little finger you cannot get [\]. You have to move it. This is true for both the keyboards I use, the TVS-Gold (it is a quite reputed one) and even the cramped keyboard of the Acer Aspire 3002 laptop. So, I think it will be true for any keyboard. This speed thing is so very important for the heavy bulk Bangla writers. So, I think, in no way it will be prudent at all to give the conjoining function to the [\] key. I absolutely support Dipankarda's views here about the hasanta. Moving it to \ is an inconvenient way of writing conjuncts. Secondly, about DS' query regarding (in)frequent usage of ZWJ: Sayam's blog entry regarding the matter is pretty much conclusive http://sayamindu.randomink.org/ramblings/2007/04/09/ra-japhala-in-bengali-bn-and-unicode-50/ Unicode rules prescribe the usage of ZWJ (and not ZWNJ) for writing ra-japhala. quote-from-blog/book ” …Unicode Standard adopts the convention of placing the character U+200D ZWJ immediately after the ra to obtain the ra-yaphaala…” /quote-from-blog/book Since ZWNJ is also used by Uniscribe's older versions perhaps the following scheme can be adopted to keep both on non-shift keys: [`] ZWJ [\] ZWNJ regards Runa - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Bengalinux-core mailing list Bengalinux-core@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bengalinux-core
