Prednisone vs. Imuran??
Does anyone have any experience with Imuran vs. Prednisone for the treatment of IMPA (Immune Mediated PolyArthritis)?? If so, what have your experiences been with the two drugs... ie, what side effects have you noticed, both good and bad, with either drug? How do these compare with NH? (Natural Hydrocortisone) that I know some of you are treating your dogs with? Thanks in advance for any advice or experiences you can provide, Jessi and Toga Anchorage, AK
Re: Vicky and Major/Boy Problems
In a message dated 11/16/2002 1:12:41 AM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: And, exactly what, pray tell, does one do if all's NOT tucked back in place??? Why, set things right...of course! -Sherri V. ;-}
Re: re; Bloemart's
In a message dated 11/16/2002 7:56:26 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: If this is what backyard breeders are producing, then bring them on. Are you volunteering to counsel the folks who buy their 'wonderful' dogs and rescue/rehome them when they're 18 months old, intact, and out of control? I believe Margaret et al would appreciate the help... -Sherri Venditti
AVID) .. for reasons already mentioned. .. if
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ---REMAINDER OF MESSAGE TRUNCATED---* * This post contains a forbidden message format * * (such as an attached file, a v-card, HTML formatting) * *Mail Lists at Prairienet only accept PLAIN TEXT* * If your postings display this message your mail program * * is not set to send PLAIN TEXT ONLY and needs adjusting * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
RE: Vicky and Major/Boy Problems
Just to add to this -- KY Jelly, let's say, facilitates the process a bit. I am sure that my pharmacist must think I am in business for myself with all the KY jelly I buy! Golly, I can't really tell him its for the dog or I would likely get thrown in jail. Nancy Melone -Original Message- From: Laurie Montoya [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Saturday, November 16, 2002 4:56 PM To: bernese Mountain Dog Mailing List Subject: Re: Vicky and Major/Boy Problems Um , this is hard to describe without sounding , uh, cough , never mind. I grew up on a horse farm and we bred racehorses , therefore had a stud horse. I handled the stud for breeding and subsequently had to clean him up afterward. Well , he got stuck one day , and couldn't get it all back where it belonged. Cough. I got my hands on both sides of the sheath and pulled GENTLY outward and back at the same time and everything slid into place by itself. Thank goodness !! I imagine you'd do the same for a dog ??? Vicky , you WOULD bring up this subject !!! Sheesh , blushingly yours , Laurie Montoya And, exactly what, pray tell, does one do if all's NOT tucked back in place??? Jen Cessi (rolling eyes) and Tucker (stop looking at me that way!) Don't be surprised if your boy has a pained expression on his face or even lets out a 'yip' when he retracts, it can be bit uncomfortable. A good brisk walk will help things return to normal more readily... then as Rose said, do check to be sure that all's tucked back in place.
Just Hello and Update
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ---REMAINDER OF MESSAGE TRUNCATED---* * This post contains a forbidden message format * * (such as an attached file, a v-card, HTML formatting) * *Mail Lists at Prairienet only accept PLAIN TEXT* * If your postings display this message your mail program * * is not set to send PLAIN TEXT ONLY and needs adjusting * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Birth announcement
Sennehhof Belline Sennenhof Dursli proudly announce the birth of 5 boys and 4 girls 16 November 2002 HOORAY Linda Seaver Eve Menegoz (posted by Betsy Rich for a presently computer-less Linda Seaver)
What does BISS mean?
Pardon my ignorance ... Bu, What does BISS mean? I'm guessing it relates to some sort of Champion-like title. Thanks, Tracey
Re: What does BISS mean?
Best in Specialty Show Mary-Ann
Stud Book and other options
I didn't get a digest yesterday and based on some of the replies in the one I just got (which is squentially numbered after the one I got on Friday) I would guess maybe some posts didn't get into the digest. In regard to Renee looking for the Annual Stud Book - the AKC publishes a list of first time sires and dams. It is text only and available at www.akc.org thru their online store. That may not be what you had in mind. The BMDCA publishes an annual Year Book - copies of the 2001 Year Book may still be available for sale at www.bmdca.org under Ways and Means. This is a soft-bound, black-and-white photo publication. Dogs owned by BMDCA members who have obtained a title during hte year, are eligible to have their photo and pedigree published in this book. So you get dogs and bitches, and you get spayed/neutered dogs as well as breeding dogs. It is a great book. It is first available at the National specialty, for the prior year. So 2002 will not be available until the National in Calif. Hoflin publishes a Bernese Mountain Dog Annual. It is hard-bound with both color and black-and-white photos and has some great articles in it. I have almost a complete set of these (still need the latest). It is available at www.hoflin.com Sharon Montville - Firstrax - Colorado __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site http://webhosting.yahoo.com
Re: Bloemart's
I recently saw one of their puppies at the International show last weekend, and was envious at the quality of this puppy. He was VERY nice, well bred, with good structure and outstanding temperment. If this is what backyard breeders are producing, then bring them on.it's a damned sight better than what I have seen coming from reputable kennels!! Judy, as with a dog, with a breeder you should look at the Whole Breeder before issuing an endorsement, especially on a public list like this where novices come looking for advice. Couldn't you have just said I saw one of their pups and he was very nice, rather than issuing a blanket invitation to BYBs to do their thing? Maybe you would like to share with us, other reasons that you think this is a kennel for us all to emulate - reasons other than just producing one nice puppy. Also, I am just curious - how active are you in breed rescue? Not being accusatory - but if you are not involved in this activity it would be easier to understand where you are coming from on this topic. If you are active, then I guess I would be looking for more explanation because your post would seem a bit contradictory to me. Sharon Montville - Firstrax - Colorado P.S. I missed the initial post that Judy replied to. __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site http://webhosting.yahoo.com
rescue in california
what groups are likely to know of berners needing rooming in california? is anyone active in rescue there? andrea, woofit and chi shavertown, pa http://www.brin.org/Woofit_and_Chi/
ACL surgery
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ---REMAINDER OF MESSAGE TRUNCATED---* * This post contains a forbidden message format * * (such as an attached file, a v-card, HTML formatting) * *Mail Lists at Prairienet only accept PLAIN TEXT* * If your postings display this message your mail program * * is not set to send PLAIN TEXT ONLY and needs adjusting * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: ACL surgery
Emma had the same symptoms and ACL surgery was recommended -- she was seven. I elected to try crate rest first and did that for about two weeks -- and I mean in the crate except for potty breaks. She did not have the surgery and is now back to her usual self with no recurring problem. Mary-Ann Bowman Utah
RE: KY Jelly -- Vickey her Boy
The packaging on my recently purchased tubes of KY Jelly say: This product is not a contraceptive and does not contain a spermacide. Nancy Melone ...KY Jelly now has bacteriacides in it which make it somewhat Spermicidal. DON'T use it in a breeding context! Sherri V.
Re: Looking for a Flint River distributor on the list.
Ray Burgett is a FRR distributor and he's on this list. Ray Pat Burgett Eaglecap Bernese [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.goodbernerfood.com Jenn Popp Healthy Paws Bones and Raw Food Diet http://www.healthy-paws.ca Toronto, Ontario (Canada) 416-264-1313 / email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Jennifer Delannoy [EMAIL PROTECTED] | | I thought I saw a few times an email for Flint River under someone's | signature. If anyone is on the list please contact me.
Re: re; Bloemart's
I'd like to think that was an attempt at humour. Jenn Popp Healthy Paws Bones and Raw Food Diet http://www.healthy-paws.ca Toronto, Ontario (Canada) 416-264-1313 / email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: mtndog [EMAIL PROTECTED] | | I recently saw one of their puppies at the International show last weekend, | and was envious at the quality of this puppy. He was VERY nice, well bred, | with good structure and outstanding temperment. | | If this is what backyard breeders are producing, then bring them | on.it's a damned sight better than what I have seen coming from | reputable kennels!!
Re: KY Jelly -- Vickey her Boy
In a message dated 11/17/2002 1:14:45 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The packaging on my recently purchased tubes of KY Jelly say: This product is not a contraceptive and does not contain a spermacide. My warning came from a Dr.Robt. Hutchison seminar I attended yesterday. His comment was that they've added a bacteriacide and that most things that kill bacteria also kill sperm. I think the packaging info is likely to prevent them from being sued by someone saying that it didn't prevent a pregnancy. Anyway, how many sperm have to be killed in what time frame to be classified spermicidal? I have no idea...but considering the fertility problems in Bernese, I'm not take'n any chances if it's in conjunction with a breeding. -Sherri V.
Re: BERNER-L digest 4125
Had to jump in on this one. This does not sound like the Laurie I came to know very well at the 2002 specialty!!! And...Vicky does not know what to do??? For goodness sake, she lives in the wildlife state of the union with all those wildcats, bears, and mountain lions..Montana!!! I agree with you Janice...hard to picture!!! :-)) Carol...who lives in a mild atmosphere of NC * From: Janice Parky [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Vicky and Major/Boy Problems Vicky , you WOULD bring up this subject !!! Sheesh , blushingly yours , Laurie Montoya Oh, come on. Laurie, BLUSHING?? Sorry, can't picture that one. Janice
Poopology
Well, I just had a funny thought... When I dreamed of having my own berner, I never imagined I would become a poopologist and watch the firmness of my puppy's poop with an eagle eye after a diarhhea scare. Marie (mom and poopologist) and Pistache
odd dog behavior help
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ---REMAINDER OF MESSAGE TRUNCATED---* * This post contains a forbidden message format * * (such as an attached file, a v-card, HTML formatting) * *Mail Lists at Prairienet only accept PLAIN TEXT* * If your postings display this message your mail program * * is not set to send PLAIN TEXT ONLY and needs adjusting * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
CAUTION: Internet ads
In checking out the recent internet advertisers, I have found a new crop of less knowledgeable breeders out there. You know they are bad, when you offer educational information in a non-judgemental manner, and they are simply resentful of the intrusion. Now, more than ever: do not pay one cent until you have the registered names of the litter parents. Then look the parents up on the Berner-Garde site. If no data is available, just say no - or, insist on paying a price more in line with the limited research and planning that was done. I would not pay anywhere close to $1000 to a clueless, ignorant breeder. I would pay more in line with the cost a rescue - about $300. BE CAREFUL! I have been encouraging good breeders to advertise on the internet, but only a few are game... there are a few good ones out there and you will know who they are, based on the depth of verififiable information that they provide. The sleazebags will provide evasive answers at best. Sharon Montville - Firstrax - Colorado Springs __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site http://webhosting.yahoo.com
Re: CAUTION: Internet ads
And it is not just internet breeders who might be less than scrupulous. Just because someone talks a good line on the berner-l, for example, does not mean that s/he is an informed/ethical breeder. Check clearances! Ask for copies of certificates and run fast in the opposite direction if you hear excuses for no clearances, including my orthopedic vet said the elbows are clear (so who cares what OFA says) kind of stuff. There are wonderful breeders who would breed a bitch with a grade one elbow, but they have done their homework and should be able to tell you exactly why it is worth the chance of breeding without an elbow clearance based on lots of information about siblings and other close relatives, as well as info about the selected male. Absence of information about the close relatives of a dog is a big red flag that should send PPO's running. Absence of clearances is another red flag, and so is a breeder who is disconnected from the rest of the berner community. Ask if the breeder is a member of the BMDCA -- and get a yes or no answer -- and think hard about whether you want a puppy from someone who isn't part of the national breed club. If the breeder talks about how she doesn't show because it is too political and does not get involved with other berner people because they are all snobby and political consider whether you want a dog from someone who might have a problem getting along with others, might make excuses for other aspects of their dogs (orthopedics), might not be informed about current health issues in the breed, and/or might have breeding practices that do not allow him/her to be accepted by the very diverse mainstream berner community. I know it can be very hard to get a berner puppy but please do not be in such a hurry that you wind up regretting your haste later -- and consider that buying from a backyard breeder or person with poor breeding practices is a vote for that person to continue. PPO's can help the breed tremendously by buying with thought, care, and integrity, and insisting on the same from breeders. Mary-Ann Bowman Utah
Female Incontenence
My 7 year old girl was spayed just over a year ago. She occassionally will piddle when I scold her or if I want to groom her or even when I give her a belly rub. I checked with my vet and she does not have a UTI or any other illness. We discussed age/spay related incontenence and she prescribed Proin. My understanding that this is the same product (formerly names DES I believe)that was given to pregnant women years ago and whose daughters developed cancer. I hesitate to give my girl anything that has been proven to cause cancer. I would love to hear from anyone with any information on this product. I would rather deal with piddles than the fear of giving a cancer causing drug to my sweet Batty. Shelley Gonzales Bigfork, MT
Unsubscribe request
Please unsubscribe me temporarily. Will be moving and changing ISPs. --- Kathy Boyce --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
New Stuffed Berner
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ---REMAINDER OF MESSAGE TRUNCATED---* * This post contains a forbidden message format * * (such as an attached file, a v-card, HTML formatting) * *Mail Lists at Prairienet only accept PLAIN TEXT* * If your postings display this message your mail program * * is not set to send PLAIN TEXT ONLY and needs adjusting * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
RE: Female Incontenence
Shelley, This what I found on DES when I looked into it. The information is from DES Action Canada (a lobby group for those exposed); the law firm Feldman Rifkin and the Canadian Government Health Site, all of which agreed on the % greater risk of cancer in those women who took DES prior to 1971: DES daughters (the term used for women whose mothers took DES during pregnancy) are at greatest risk for health problems, but DES mothers (the women who took the drug) and DES sons may have complications as well. Women who used DES may have a slightly increased risk of breast cancer. Current research indicates that the risk of breast cancer in DES-exposed mothers is approximately 30 percent higher than the risk for women who have not been exposed to this drug. This risk has been stable over time, and does not seem to increase as the mothers become older. Additional research is needed to clarify this issue and whether DES-exposed mothers are at higher risk for any other types of cancer. When I investigated synthetic estrogen for incontinence in a non-Berner girl some years ago, I looked at the incidence of mammary cancers in her line and siblings, her age and how long she was likely to be on the medication (that is, as she was elderly I knew she would not be taking the medication for years and years), her overall health status, etc. and made my decision based on the best risk/benefit analysis I could put together. Of course, I did not have the wonderful Berner-L from which to seek guidance. It will be interesting to hear from the doctors and vets on the list have to say. Patricia McIlveen (Yeoman, Reba Gus) Calgary Alberta
Annie's post mortem
The results of Annie's PM finally came back last week - took ages this time, but it was pretty thorough. She died of heart failure -she had myocardial oedema, which is water in the actual muscle tissue And because heart failure cells were found in the lungs, it is reckoned that she had been in heart failure for 2 to 3 weeks. Her other organs were also shutting down. The tennis ball tumour attached to her sternum was found to be (I quote) A very large, reactive but otherwise normal lymph node, with normal cortex and medullary structure, lymphoid follicles interstitial tissue. In other words, not the cancer I feared... But, the heart failure is a mystery... In the 4 weeks before she died, 4 different vets examined her thoroughly and none could find a problem with her heart. In fact, a week before she died, the vet examining her prior to her first acupuncture session, said That's what we like to hear, a good, strong heart! She must have been extraordinarily strong to last as long as she did... Beth(vet) and I have talked this over - she is beating herself over the fact she was concentrating on her growing hind leg weakness, and not listening enough to her thoracic region - and we think that the emergency at the beginning of September may be implicated in this. I rushed Annie down to the surgery late one evening as she had been getting more and more restless and hyper-ventilating more and more rapidly. The vet found she had a very high temperature which was treated with ice packs and IV antibiotics. In humans, a high fever and intense infection can spark heart failure and apparently this is so in dogs too. It is also entirely possible that she had a thrombosis that lodged in her leg or spinal area, producing the symptoms of DM that she was showing. We will never know for sure, but at least my strong willed, alpha puppy of nearly 12 years was not a victim of cancer (a miracle as far as I'm concerned!), but went out fighting, the way she would have wanted. And the Annie sized hole in our lives is vast... They broke the mold when she was born. Liz Bradbury in Scotland, with Roxie (nearly 2) the bouncing Berner; Newfs Toby 6 and Maggie 12 months; the 6 Feline Fiends.
RE: xrays etc.
hi... are you wanting xrays because you are interested in breeding? or are you just wanting to see what's going on with his hips? If you are interested in breeding, Penn-hip is the only hip evaluation system that would be appropriate for long-term prospects of hip disease, given his age. If you are just curious about why he is unsteady, you don't need to bother with ofa/gdc or penn-hip, because really, you just want to know what's going on, and those places don't help you with that anyway. So you should probably go with your vet or if you're really concerned, have a board certified orthopedist (ACVS) either take, or look at the films. And...for what it's worth, some dogs that are 'unstable' at his age may even grow out of it, given time, despite what the xrays look like. ...ben Subject: Where to go for preliminary X-rays? To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Fellow L'ers: I have an 8 month old boy who I would like to get X-rayed since his rear appears a bit unstable. I have an appointment on Tuesday with his regular Vet. Should I keep this appointment or do you think I should make an appointment with an Orthopedist? Should I get a recommendation for an orthopedist from OFA? I don't know how much experience my Vet has with X-raying hips/elbows, etc. and I would be disappointed if the X-rays indicate a problem due to improper positioning on her part. Thank you for your opinion. Sincerely, Julene Stelmak Manhattan Beach, CA Benjamin M. Brainard VMD Resident, Anesthesia/Emergency/Critical Care Veterinary Hospital of the University of Pennsylvania 3900 Delancy St. Phila, PA 19104 (215) 573-7779
Re: Poopology
I know how you feel! Even our friends are asking how Maggie's poop is!! Karen (fellow poopologist) Maggie (pooper) - Original Message - From: Marie-France St-Pierre [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'maria' [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 'Bernese Mountain Dog Mailing List' [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, November 17, 2002 3:41 PM Subject: Poopology Well, I just had a funny thought... When I dreamed of having my own berner, I never imagined I would become a poopologist and watch the firmness of my puppy's poop with an eagle eye after a diarhhea scare. Marie (mom and poopologist) and Pistache
Re: Female Incontenence--DES in humans
I dunno, but I sure would be just a little hesitant to accept unquestioned any medical advice quoted from a law firm especially one that admits it makes big bucks suing over DES cases (or McDonalds hot coffee or whatever the case of the week is.) Hconflict of interest, anyone? :-) Check out the websites for the AMA (American Medical Assoc) or ACOG (American College of OB/GYN) for straightforward medical/scientific info. Vilma Briggs, MD (OB/GYN) Mt. Gilead, OH U-UD Mocha Java Slurp, UDX, HIC, TT Ch. Brighteye Expresso Bean, UD, NDD, TT U-CDX Our Little Buddy, UD, NA, TT and rescue Berners: Charm (Thirdtym's A Charm CGC) and Willow and now Ted
Philly dog show results?
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ---REMAINDER OF MESSAGE TRUNCATED---* * This post contains a forbidden message format * * (such as an attached file, a v-card, HTML formatting) * *Mail Lists at Prairienet only accept PLAIN TEXT* * If your postings display this message your mail program * * is not set to send PLAIN TEXT ONLY and needs adjusting * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Sorry - dumb question
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ---REMAINDER OF MESSAGE TRUNCATED---* * This post contains a forbidden message format * * (such as an attached file, a v-card, HTML formatting) * *Mail Lists at Prairienet only accept PLAIN TEXT* * If your postings display this message your mail program * * is not set to send PLAIN TEXT ONLY and needs adjusting * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: Female Incontenence
I had a female Collie in my pre-Berner days who was spayed at 6 months and by the time she was a year old, was experiencing spay related incontinence. She was put on DES. I was able to wean the original dose, which I cannot remember, down to one dose per month. She lived to age 13 and had no cancer or other DES related problems. Janice Parky My 7 year old girl was spayed just over a year ago. She occassionally will piddle when I scold her or if I want to groom her or even when I give her a belly rub. I checked with my vet and she does not have a UTI or any other illness. We discussed age/spay related incontenence and she prescribed Proin. My understanding that this is the same product (formerly names DES I believe)that was given to pregnant women years ago and whose daughters developed cancer. I hesitate to give my girl anything that has been proven to cause cancer. I would love to hear from anyone with any information on this product. I would rather deal with piddles than the fear of giving a cancer causing drug to my sweet Batty.
Re: Female Incontenence--DES in humans
Hey Vilma, Don't make fun of the Mc Donalds coffee lawsuit attorney!: ) He lives in San Francisco. He contacted me for a puppy then later I called him about trouble I was having with my son's school and to my surprise instead of just giving me advice he took care of it for us free of charge! First time anyone had challenged the school district and won! He's actually a nice guy, and a great attorney to have available! Most big name lawyers would have been too busy, or not into such non-headline cases. Bernerly, Mary Jeff Mary Chapdelaine SnoBear Berners [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://snobear.freeyellow.com
Re: KY Jelly -- Vickey her Boy
...KY Jelly now has bacteriacides in it which make it somewhat spermicidal. DON'T use it in a breeding context! Furthermore, I have even heard that AI equipment should be rinsed with distilled water - NOT chlorinated tap water. Fertility can be a fragile thing. Unless we're talking about teens in the backseat or intact dogs of opposite sex and different breeds in the backyard. Sharon Montville - Firstrax - Colorado __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site http://webhosting.yahoo.com
Re: breeders and scam (was guarantees/contracts)
Sorry to get back to you so late - have been out of state at a 3 day show circuit. Possibly this is where the PPO's must take it on their own to educate Themselves before jumping in a sinkhole. I personally NEVER take a deposit until I have a puppy available for you. I do not feel it is ethical to take someone's money without having the pup already on the ground. However, as a breeder, I will say this - I have returned a deposit on two occasions, having the pup available and realizing that the ownership would not work in my mind. One was - I was placing a male companion pup - the male owner to be of a married couple, just before he was to pick up the pup, informed me he would not agree to it's being neutered as he thought all males should have the right to be male. He did not get the pup. In another case, the family visited after I had numerous phone and letter contacts and while there, one of their three children - she was 7 - kicked one of the puppies that was crawling on her foot. She also refused to touch the puppies, and screamed when her father tried to get her to hold one. I felt badly because the parents wanted a puppy so much, but would not release one of my babies in this situation. Opps, just thought of a third return I had a litter of 8 - all were spoken for, checks received on 7 of them right away. Weeks went by, I contacted the people, asking if they had changed their minds, was told the check was in the mail..another week went by, no deposit, so I contacted the next person waiting and they sent me a deposit in overnight mail. Next day after that, I received the first family's check - which I then returned to them immediately, stating the pup was spoken for. They were very angry at me, but I felt 1) if they did not have the funds for the deposit, where would be the funds for the pup at pick up which was getting closer and closer and 2) would they put off taking the pup to a vet days/weeks after noticing it was ill since it was not of that much importance to them...and although they bad-mouthed me for not selling them the pup, my conscience was clear that the pup was in the right home. Sometimes there is Breeders Rights Sometimes the PPO's are so aware of what they are supposed to say when talking on the phone or e-mails, etc, that the breeder isn't able to have a feel about the person. My husband sez that he can tell in my conversations whether I am turned off or turned on to the person who is inquiring about a puppy. After 40 years of inquiring over the phone, you get a feel about most of the people. Maybe it is just as well - no - it is, Just as well you did not get a puppy from this breeder. HOWEVER this breeder should have had the deposit on the mail back to you the next day. The PPO's need to research and educate themselves and there should never be a request in that amount for a deposit. I do ask for a deposit to hold the puppy WHEN I have one for you. Usually at that time I am quite comfortable that we are a match, breeder/owner. Hopefully you receive same back, and I would guess that this is not the orm - and of my breeder acquaintances, I do not feel this would/should have happened at all. I am learning thru this list that I am rather naive at times, that times have changed and life is no longer simple. Sandy Ongemach www.sanduskyberners.com - Original Message - From: Gulnara Ajupova [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2002 4:27 PM Subject: breeders and scam (was guarantees/contracts) Hello fellow Lers! I was not able to read Sandy's original post. I guess it was in html and did not show in the digest. However, I saw the following statement in one of the replies: In a message dated 11/12/2002 5:51:12 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Breeders don't PLAN on scamming their buyers, they don't PLAN on pups becoming ill or dysplasic, they don't PLAN on taking the money and running as some of these message seem to say. and I have to disagree with it. Maybe some breeders do scam anybody or intend to scam, but some of them do. Here is my story: The breeder I was hoping to get a puppy from took my deposit money (about 60% of the price), and then canceled my reservation because I asked about her on the L. (I had my hotel, airline ticket and rental car resevations by then.) She said she would refund the money. It has been almost 6 months since she canceled, and I have not seen the money. Neither have I heard back from her by email or phone, nor she did accept registered letter I sent her (politely asking for the money but she didn't see it since she didn't accept the letter). I call this a scam. Gulnara P.S. And I think one could call her a famous breeder. BMDCA member, too. -- Gulnara Ajupova The Woodlands, TX _ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.
Re: Female Incontenence
In a message dated 11/17/2002 5:24:48 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: We discussed age/spay related incontenence and she prescribed Proin. My understanding that this is the same product (formerly names DES I believe)that was given to pregnant women years ago and whose daughters developed cancer. Proin is Phenylpropanolamine or PPA. It is the drug that was in over the counter cold medicines and diet pills. I believe Dexitrim was one of the popular diet ones. PPA was pulled by the FDA a year or so ago for human consumption, as I recall because of some stroke consequences. It has not been a problem in animals. I remember we had difficulty obtaining it at the vets at the time because the market dried up quickly. My spayed Irish Setter took it for years for incontinence under the name Propagest, and so did one of my Berner males who is plagued with post nasal drip. It is an anti-histamine. My vet told me I could use the Dexitrim pills if I ran out of the prescription. Both of these dogs now do without any drugs. The Irish turned 13 last Thursday and I'd rather not give her any more meds than necessary. The boy isn't much different on the drug than off, so he's off. There is a hormone-type drug that can be given to spayed females for incontinence. Perhaps it is the one with DES. You can read more about Phenylpropanolamine at http://www.fda.gov/cder/drug/infopage/ppa/default.htm. Carol Lingley Ijamsville, MD
RE: Philly Show Results
Maria, That's exactly how my book is marked, thank you for posting the results. And thank you for spending time at the show talking to people and helping to educate. I can't thank all of the exhibitors enough, it's a very long weekend, and everyone who is there deserves a round of applause - thank you all!! Saturday I think there were approximately 1,437,892 people that we all talked to, and quite a few less than that today. I had fun meeting everyone as always, some old friends from this List finally have faces!! Pat Long ( Luther) Berwyn PA
Re: Sorry - dumb question -Dog show definitions
http://www.apocalypse.org/pub/u/karyn/dogshowterms.html This site looks pretty good to explain dog show definitions. Gail Miller Cynosure Bernese in Arkansas [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: david and sandra ongemach [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, November 17, 2002 6:57 PM Subject: Sorry - dumb question I should have this somewhere in a file, but can't locate it. Would someone send out the website address where I can send people to find what all the definitions mean such as Ch. WB,WD,BW,BOB Special (Champion) CGC CD, CDX, UD, etc OFA,CERF and on and on is there a simple address I can pass on to the novices trying to learn how to read a pedigree, etc. Thanks. Sandy Ongemach www.sanduskyberners.com
RE: Female Incontenence--DES in humans
I agree Vilma, which is why I specifically stated that all my sources (which I cited) agreed on the 30% increase in risk of mammary cancers for users of DES. I could only use a survey of sources I had access to at the time to educate myself; the more agreements I find between sources the more I believe that particular bit of information. Patricia -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] s I dunno, but I sure would be just a little hesitant to accept unquestioned any medical advice quoted from a law firm especially one that admits it makes big bucks suing over DES cases (or McDonalds hot coffee or whatever the case of the week is.) Hconflict of interest, anyone? :-)
RE: Sorry - dumb question
-Original Message- From: sandra ongemach Would someone send out the website address where I can send people to find what all the definitions mean ... is there a simple address I can pass on to the novices trying to learn how to read a pedigree, etc. -- Sandy, The AKC website has these: Titles: http://www.akc.org/dic/events/titles.cfm Pedigrees: http://www.akc.org/registration/AKCpedigree.cfm Pat Long ( Luther) Berwyn PA
RE: Philly Show Results
how do we find out their owners? andrea, woofit and chi shavertown, pa http://www.brin.org/Woofit_and_Chi/
Re: Philly Show Results
Decade's Shore Thing: Joseph and Christine glazer Gina Nini Trevi's Prime contender: Barbara Ann Bych Lewa's Zero Gravity - Debbie and Bill Hamilton Trevi's Call of the Wild - Barbara Ann Bych October The Drake V Tullysky - Jennifer Hoffnagle Keilissa's Feature Presentation - LeeAnn Ashley Brownstein Wyncall's Tribute to Keilissa - Melissa and John Ruchak Von Engel's Icing on the Cake - Sherry and Kasey Von Engel Decade's Moving Violation - Gina Nini Trevi's Black Magic woman - Barbara Ann Bych Von Engel's Image Maker - Sherry Kasey von Engel Lewa's Fast and Furious - Debbie and Bill Hamilton Decade's Summer Nights - Gina Nini and Andrew Nini Keilissa's Ground Zero - LeeAnn Brownstein Keilissa Spicy Blend V Erlise - Melissa John Ruchak Lee Ann Brownstein Keilissa's High Meadow - Jessie Brenda Jones LeeAnn Brownstein Decade's Alpine Star - Gina tony Anthony Nini Greenway's Grand Illusion - Sarah Bardsley Dede Laveran Ch. Keilissa's Lenox Rain - Lisa Gallizzo Renee Gallizzo LeeAnn Brownstein Ch. L-Sin's Dream's and Desire's - Sindi Leo Ch. De-Li's Theory of Relativity - Lilian Ostermiller Maria, Daisy and The Budman (who is not responsible for errors) - Original Message - From: Andrea Brin [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Berner-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, November 17, 2002 8:55 PM Subject: RE: Philly Show Results how do we find out their owners? andrea, woofit and chi shavertown, pa http://www.brin.org/Woofit_and_Chi/
Re: Female Incontinence
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ---REMAINDER OF MESSAGE TRUNCATED---* * This post contains a forbidden message format * * (such as an attached file, a v-card, HTML formatting) * *Mail Lists at Prairienet only accept PLAIN TEXT* * If your postings display this message your mail program * * is not set to send PLAIN TEXT ONLY and needs adjusting * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: Female Incontenence--DES in humans
Mary, How can I possibly NOT make fun of the Mc Donalds hot coffee lawsuit!? It is a parody of itself! The lawyer may or may not be a nice guy, but if you are stupid enough to put hot coffee in between your legs and drive off, too badif you wanted it cold you should have ordered a Diet Coke. Coffee is hot, news flash. It is really sad someone got burned, but we all do stupid things -- doesnt mean you get to blame someone else. Sad state our society is in, total lack of ability to take responsibility for your own actions...or when simple bad luck has to have someone at faultto the tune of a few million dollars. A huge portion of the the real reason health care costs are skyrocketing is medical malpractice abuse and the lack of desperately needed tort reform legislation. Anyway, dont get me going, obviously! Hee-hee! :-) But I guess the bottom line is dont trust the word of any group w/ such an obvious agendaget the real scoop on the DES data (or any medical info) from a source knowledgable, neutral and scientific. Vilma Briggs, MD Mt. Gilead, OH U-UD Mocha Java Slurp, UDX, HIC, TT Ch. Brighteye Expresso Bean, UD, NDD, TT U-CDX Our Little Buddy, UD, NA, TT and rescue Berners: Charm (Thirdtym's A Charm CGC) and Willow and now Ted
BMDCC Specialty Results from my catalog???
Here are the results from my catalog if you want to use them...only missing a few. Tentative? Jr Sweeps Jr Puppy males 26 Ebnet's Yaro 113 CH Susa's Fifty Two Pick-up 25 Allsgold's Smoking Gun 22 Demitra's Deshka v Southwind Sr Puppy male 28 Classique's Wishbone 12 to 18 males 31 Ebnet's Washte Chante Tatanka 33 Wagontale's Henry's Happy Hour 106 CH Oberland's Don't Think Twice Jr Puppy female 63 Ebnet's Yokeko 58 Ebnet's Yum Yum Yasmine 64 Werlwind's Zusa Rayne 59 Silvertip's Trinity v Bev's Sr Puppy Female 67 Ebnet's X-Caliente 68 Northwest Light the Fire Within 66 Valleverde's Odyssey Sheena 65 Yella v Ruschbode 12 to 18 females 72 Oberland's Darby 74 Kielerstar Versery Rhyme Best in Sweeps 67 Ebnet's X-caliente Best Opposite 31 Ebnet's Washte Chante Tatanka Veteran's Sweeps 7-9 female 98 Am CH Bluemoon's Betenoire Wagontale 99 Am CH Cando's Glacier Express NDD 96 Can CH Alpenblicks Hjera v Oberland 97 Littlebear's Last Time Ashley 9-over females 93 Can/Am CH Allsgolds Harley v Vonberner 91 Alpenblick's Great Lady 95 October's Resal Classic Best in Vet Sweeps 93 Can/Am CH Allsgolds Harley v Vonberner Runner-up in Sweeps 98 Am CH Bluemoon's Betenoire Wagontale Regular Classes 6-9 dogs Ebnet's Yaro ? ? ? 9-12 dogs Bernecho's Buntzen Berner Classique's Wishbone Valleverde's Okanagan Ice 12-18 dogs Ebnet's Washte Chante Tatanka Wagontale's Henry's Happy Hour Sascha's Ursa Major Best Bred By Exhibitor males Am CH Demitra's God Chaser v MCT Am CH Ebnet's Magic Blunote's Begin'g To See The Lite Schurlike Extravagant Eli Open males Zack van't Stokerybos Swisskiss Best Bet's EL Fudge Am CH Doremis Globetrotter von Ask Rush Hill's Notorious WD Zack van't Stokerybos RWD Swisskiss Best Bet's EL Fudge Veteran Males Can/Am/Int'l CH Demitra's Chatterbox Kodi Can/Am CH Schneehund Max von Mazama CDX/DD Alpenrose Charles Dickens Jr puppy female Silvertip's Trinity v Bev's Ebnet's Yum Yum Yasmine Ebnet's Yokeko Werlwind's Zusa Rayne Sr Puppy female Ebnet's X-Caliente Northwest Light the Fire Within Valleverde's Odyssey Sheena Yella v Ruschbode 12-18 female Oberland's Darby Bernecho's Gingerbread Baby CD Bred By Exhibitor Hidden Valley's Wilo N the Wind Wagontale's Good Morning Glory Kielerstar Versery Rhyme Open Female Swisskiss Half Baked Dough'na Northwest Nirvana v Kikahula Ebnet's Premier Attraction Allsgold's Maid to Order WB Swisskiss Half Baked Dough'na RWB Northwest Nirvana v Kikahula Veteran Female Can CH Meadow Wood's Supreme Contessa Can CH Alpenblick's Hjera v Oberland Can/Am CH Allsgolds Harley v Vonberner Alpenblick's Great Lady Best of Breed and Best of Winners Zack van't Stokerybos Best of Opposite in Specialty C/A/Int's CH Ebnet's Joy NDD, DD, CGC Award of Merit Can CH Swisskiss Fabulous Baker Boy Award of Merit Riccarron Enzo Vincenzo ? Best Veteran Can/Am/Int'l CH Demitra's Chatterbox Kodi Best Opposite Veteran in Specialty Can CH Meadow Wood's Supreme Contessa Best Puppy Bernecho's Buntzen Berner Best Brace Demitra's Chatterbox Kodi and Demitra's Oberland Dreamer Best Stud dog Am CH Sepp v Ruschbode Best Brood Bitch Can CH Swisskiss You Were Meant For Me Novice A High in Class Floretta vom Granzweg Novice B High in Class Am CH Blue Moon's Betenoire Wagontale Open B High in Class ? Utility ? High in Trial Am CH Blue Moon's Betenoire Wagontale High in Trial Veteran OTCH Pebbles Two DD/VAADC -Original Message- From: Robin Camken [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Sunday, November 17, 2002 4:55 AM To: Lisa Ebnet Subject: Re: Specialty Thanks Lisa, I'm still waiting for the rest of the winner's information to post on the website. I've sent a message to the bernese list letting people know where the information is/will be posted. I've asked for a soft copy of the marked catalogue to be sent to me from the Show Secretary, but nothing received yet. I didn't have a catalogue from the show so I don't have a record of the winners myself. thanks again for the photos and congratulation on your wins. Robin ~ Robin Camken Ottawa, Ontario, Canada [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://members.rogers.com/rcamken - Original Message - From: Lisa Ebnet [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Robin Camken [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, November 17, 2002 2:24 AM Hi Robin, Here is Zack van't Stokerybos BOB, BW, WD from the open class A/C/UCI CH Ebnet's Joy NDD, DD, CGC BOS and Ebnet's Washte Chante Tatanka best of opposite in sweeps and 1st 12-18 Are the results posted somewhere? No one seems to have posted anything and I felt a bit uncomfortable boasting! :-) Will send Best in Sweeps as well Sincerely, Lisa Ebnet and the Furry Berner Crew in Ferndale
RE: AKC Titles Website
The following website will allow people to look up prefix or suffix titles. These are presented as alphabetical lists. It does not include OFA or GDC or CERF. www.akc.org/dic/events/titles.cfm Nancy Melone
Thanks -
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ---REMAINDER OF MESSAGE TRUNCATED---* * This post contains a forbidden message format * * (such as an attached file, a v-card, HTML formatting) * *Mail Lists at Prairienet only accept PLAIN TEXT* * If your postings display this message your mail program * * is not set to send PLAIN TEXT ONLY and needs adjusting * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Puppy Pics
Pictures of the Eaglecap puppies at 5 weeks of age are now on the WebPages. All right already! , I never professed to being a photographer but practice makes perfect. Ray Pat Burgett Eaglecap Bernese Talee,Lexi,Boomer,Bell Max www.goodbernerfood.com http://users.eoni.com/~eaglecap/ Draminski Ovulation Detector Rep
RE: BMDCA question; staying in touch
Hi, Mary-Ann, I am a long time reader but this is my first time contributor to the L. It is through my own negligence that I am not a member of BMDCA, Two local clubs keep me busy, but you're right, no responsible breeder should be without the guidance of the Mother Club. I do have several highly qualified Berner breeder friends and perhaps that's why I've not gone the extra step. I just placed my last litter of 6 boys. Every one went to homes that were scrutinized contracted. As I'm sure you're aware, I was often asked, how can you let these beautiful babies go? It was not that difficult! I can sleep at night knowing that I have complete confidence in my instinct and the accountability that is expected from my puppy owners. Every one is connected via email and me. It's been such a joy and a kick to listen in on the conversations and to be included. Nobody is embarrassed to ask the newby questions the good 'ole Berner owners are interested enough to jump in with their experience. The key, I believe, is that these owners not only connect with us, the breeder, but also with the sibling owners. We would not have a fraction of this interest or interaction if it were just an internet address for new puppy owners. As to seeing each other at various sites, that's a great idea. Some of my puppies have gone out of state but at least we're connected. We do arrange annual birthday parties, and have a photo exchange. I am very excited about your annual report idea. What sort of how many questions are in your report? How do you compile the information. I love it!! Staying connected is the key to a better Berner, a healthier Berner and a more educated Berner public. Tina Gaines, Ch. Black star Hennessy CGC,NDD, CHOMP Therapy Swiss Star Willow surla Seine, super Mom(almost there needing 4 pts). -Original Message- From: Mary-Ann Bowman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Saturday, November 16, 2002 7:03 AM To: Bernese Mountain Dog Mailing List Subject: BMDCA question; staying in touch I have a question. Why don't people, especially breeders, join the BMDCA? It seems to me that if one is involved in a breed, s/he should belong to the national breed club. Although by no means a measure of quality, I think it is certainly one of those minimum standards that PPO's ought to inquire about when looking for a puppy. And for a PPO, it is a wonderful entry into the world of berners. Staying in touch with puppy owners -- the first step is being very explicit about the expectations before placing a puppy. I spell things out to the potential owners -- what the contact looks like, how often I want to hear from them, what they can expect from me, and my rationale for maintaining contact. I let them know that not everyone wants that kind of relationship with a breeder, and while that is perfectly acceptable it is not how I do things. Any good relationship starts with clearly articulated expectations. After the puppies go home, I maintain e-mail contact with the owners. I do not rely on them to write to me, but will initiate contact by asking about the puppy. I send out group e-mails with news and photos so that all owners from a litter have a sense of what is happening with the other puppies from the litter. I also make it a point to plan show trips to locations where I have puppies placed so that I can see them. In addition to all this, I mail a questionnaire each year and from those returned questionnaires, prepare an annual report that I send to each owner and the owners of the male who sired the litter. I am working on my second annual report now. I try hard to be helpful and supportive to my puppy owners, without being intrusive. Finally, I do not have so many puppies that I cannot track them and care about each one -- and I never will because it is very important to me to maintain those connections. In addition, it is very important to me that I am able to maintain accurate information about what we are producing -- and that is not possible unless one collects data from the owners. I am aware of what it takes for me to breed in a way that supports my sense of purpose and integrity, and producing so many puppies that I cannot track them properly would not be congruent with what I want to accomplish or my personal ethics. Those are just some thoughts on how I maintain contact. Mary-Ann Bowman Utah Emma, Abra, Maize and the ten-pack
