re: baka: no blockages but still having hind end problems
Hi Laura and Baka, I finally realized I had a similar (but not exactly the same) episode with my dog Tanzi in June. We had showed on Saturday and she was not quite as perky as usual, and had mild diarrhea. Got home, she ate as usual and spent most of the evening outside. At bedtime I called and she did not come. So I had to go out and find her (very large fenced backyard). She was unable to get up (she is 2 1/2). I helped her and she was very lame in her hind end (her GDC's are excllent, with normal elbows). So I called the emergency clinic and took her in. I had to basically carry her into the clinic. They gave her morphine for pain and told me it might make her vomit. Sure enough, it did - and up came a large pair of panties (not mine) rolled into a nice compact cylinder garnished with hair and grass, so it looked like a dead rat. Since I had paid about $3500 for her dam's treatment and surgery the prior year, related to swallowing an entire pair of pantyhose (not mine, again) in one piece, we had a few good yucks over all the money I had saved, and I took Tanzi home. She was a dead weight and I had to set her down in order to open the front door. I could carry her if she was elevated, but I could not really pick her up from the ground. So I somehow got her just inside the front door (up one step) and set up an x-pen around her. Checked her at 7 a.m. and she had not moved and was not much better. She ended up going back to the emergency clinic in the afternoon - but now she was lame in the front! X-rays revealed inflammation of the joints. So they put her on Rimadyl and sent me home. By that night, she was completely normal again. And has been normal ever since. However, I just heard about a friend's dog who had to be spayed due to pyometra that had also resulted in peritonitis. From what I understand, she had lameness and swollen joints as well. I had been worried Tanzi might have been bloating and had heard that hind end lameness can be related to abdominal distress. So maybe the panties had caused that?? But what about that front-end lameness? It was almost like the inflammation was moving from joint to joint??? Whatever it was, it was brief in duration but it really scared me. Within 24 hours, she was fine. But at times during those 24 hours, I was worried that she might die. To see a normally incredibly sound and very active young dog, unable to walk, is scary. I hope all is well with Baka, but if you ever get more explanation I would love to hear what it was. We don't have any answers on Tanzi. I was thinking maybe the hind-end was due to the panties, and the front-end was just caused by straining to make up for the rear but I am not at all convinced. I am almost wondering if she had some weird virus? Sharon Montville - Firstrax - Colorado __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com
Responsible websites... Also, Elbow Dysplasia
Just a reminder, especially for people looking on the internet to find a puppy... Websites of responsible breeders generally include registered names, and often the clearances, of their dogs. When the clearances are not included, the registered names can be used to check. These days, www.offa.org is the easiest site to check for orthopedic clearances (since the GDC data was merged with OFA data). Cute photos alone, do not indicate a good breeder. Cute photos are a sales gimmick. In many cases, cute photos sell puppies. But the careful, informed buyer knows to look for a breeder who has in-depth pedigree background on the sire and dam of the litter - one who can prove much of this screening has been done, via formal registries (NOT the vet looked at the x-rays and said they were fine). At the prices being charged for puppies, is it not reasonable to expect a breeder to send hip/elbow x-rays to OFA (or OVC in Canada) to be officially evaluated by specialists, for an additional $35 or so??? I recently visited a website (that I found via this list, somewhat indirectly) and a litter listed had a sire with only a hip number, and a dam who did not have a hip number or an elbow number. Now, maybe her hips were evaluated by PennHIP but what about her elbows? What about her sire's elbows? Did you know that a study was done in Rottweilers, that showed the highest incidence of elbow dysplasia occurred in litters where neither sire or dam had been screened? Did you know that elbow dysplasia is often more difficult to successfully treat than hip dysplasia, and it can be quite painful? Just because a breeder is referenced on this list, or belongs to a club, or wins in the show ring, does not necessarily mean this is a responsible breeder. When it comes to hip clearances, there are no excuses - the dog should have an OFA, OVC, or GDC (former orthopedic registry) evaluation, or PennHIP (no online verification available however). For elbows, only the first 3 apply. If the dog is an import, there is no reason it cannot be x-rayed and be evaluated by a recognized American registry. Since so many dogs do not pass elbows, sometimes careful breeders do use a dog with mild elbow dysplasia for breeding... to a dog with clear elbows and ideally from a litter of clear-elbowed dogs. In this case, it is especially important to see the evaluation certificate stating the actual diagnosis and whether one or both elbows are involved. Grade I is the mildest. Beware of the stories he hurt himself - this might be true, but more often than not is an excuse. At any rate, any dog that does not pass elbows, if used for breeding at all, should be bred to a dog with clear elbows and strong pedigree for elbows. Be very careful of new breeders who immediately start out breeding multiple litters per year. Breeding 10 litters in the first year, does not make this person an experienced breeder - it makes them an experienced whelper. I would personally be leery of someone new to the breed, breeding more than one litter their first year. I would ask them WHY are they doing this??? Especially if they are cutting corners on health clearances. The sad truth is, there are some people who use the clubs, and lists such as Berner-l, to gain the trust of buyers. Please be careful Responsible breeders welcome your questions, even the tough ones. So please do not be afraid to ask - if the breeder gets mad at you for asking, is this someone you want to be involved with for the life of your dog??? I have held numerous positions of responsibility in several dog clubs and that is rarely the first thing I tell people who ask about my dogs...I often do not even mention that I am a member but I do refer people to the websites of the BMDCR and BMDCA for the information available. You should ask just as many questions of a BMDCA breeder as you do of a non-member breeder. BUYER BEWARE. This is not just your money at risk, it is your heart. Sorry, there have been a few somewhat promotional posts to this list this summer, and I just wanted to emphasize the importance of researching before you buy. Sharon Montville - Firstrax Bernese - Colorado __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com
Treatment for carcinoma
One of my pups (I do not own her but am her breeder; she will be 8 in September) has cancer. It is aggressive and initially I received word that she had histio - however, the lab report was not back yet. Then it turned out the sample was too bloody to evaluate. So poor Annie went to CSU and was aspirated again. This time the report came back not as histio, but as carcinoma. It is still bad news for Annie, but I am breathing a little easier for her relatives. However, it is still tearing me up. We had a little get-together with Annie and a few close-by littermates to celebrate her while she still feels good and looks good. Her owners' main concern is doing what is best for Annie. This is very hard on them and I think the best I can do for them, is gather some info on treatment experiences others have had - chemo, holistic, etc. They want to know how the treatments affect the dog's quality of life. There is a tumor that is impacting her bowel activity. She has to go on vigorous walks in order to be able to eliminate. One of the options was to get a biopsy sample surgically, but then she would have had to be kept quiet for a week - which could have left her very uncomfortable. If she doesn't have much time left, her family wants it to be as high quality as possible - so they opted to not do that. They are very open to treatment, money is not an issue, quality of life is. She has had several ultrasounds and aspirate samples done. Out here in Colorado, a chemo treatment costs about $350 per treatment, I think they are about 3 weeks apart. I know there have been several posts about chemo lately and I am going to go dig those out of the archives. If anyone has had specific experience treating carcinoma, I would appreciate hearing from you. However, any cancer treatment options, and how well your dog tolerated the treatment, and how much time it bought, would be very appreciated as well. Eight years is just not long enough - and I know it is still longer than many of our Berners get, but I do not think I will ever be able to get used to losing dogs in the prime of their lives. Please, share info in Berner-Garde and help us breeders be able to make informed breeding decisions. These are not problems to hide under the carpet. (At Jean's Longlease site, I am personally impressed by the photos that include the dog's registered name.) I am preparing to breed Annie's niece and was devastated to possibly have histio that close, knowingly... so if I had known upfront that Tanzi had an aunt with histio I was going to be a little more strict on what amount of known histio I could deal with in the stud's pedigree, and possibly breed her to an older stud who did not have any littermates with histio. I don't plan all breedings that way, because histio is just one piece of the breeding puzzle. It is all about compromise. I am now back to being able to take a chance on a younger dog again! When you breed to a 2-year-old dog you can't predict how many of his littermates will still be around at age 7 - but when you have a low incidence of histio on the bitch's side I personally will take that risk. Tanzi's granddam is over 12 and I recently submitted a sample for the control group (dogs over 10 not diagnosed with histio) of the Fred Hutchinson study. We were prepared to send her daughter Annie's sample for the affected group, but at this time that appears to be unnecessary. Histio is basically lurking somewhere in all of our pedigrees, so it is not that I would never breed a dog with a close relative who had histio... just that if my bitch has a close relative with histio, I would not want to breed her to a dog whose sire/dam (for example)died of histio... and to be more certain about that, it would be necessary to breed her to an older stud whose own sire/dam was at least 9 years old, so far histio free... Again, there are really no absolutes, just methods for reducing but not eliminating risk... You have to give in on something because if you are not willing to compromise, you would not be able to breed! I realize some people think not breeding is the answer to all this misery, but I don't see how shrinking the gene pool solves anything long term. I have had a big reality check in the past few weeks, but one thing I know is I still want to go forward with breeding in my own small-scale way. Thanks for any treatment info you can send my way - Sharon Montville - Firstrax Bernese - Colorado Hailey, Zyla (Annie's sister), Blaze, Tanzi __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com
Cabelas
I sent them a short e-mail, simply asking for a list of the sporting breeds sold, and a list of the required health clearances/certifications for each breed. That was all I asked. I didn't give them my opinion that this is an irresponsible way to sell pups. I just asked for more info. Well, I got the same reply from Ron that everyone else is getting. Pretty quickly after I sent the e-mail. I suspect that snail-mail letters may be more effective. Hopefully the sporting breed clubs have been notified. Sharon Montville - Firstrax Bernese - Colorado __ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com
Re: Rally Obedience 2004
From: Marjie [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hopefully, Rally will be a titling venue by the time of the 2004 Specialty. It was recommended by the AKC Obedience Advisory Committee. The best guesses so far is April of 2004 when it will officially happen. The current thinking is that it will be a whole separate venue from Obedience. Of course, all of this might change. It was the biggest obedience event for the 2003 Specialty and was financially quite successful. Hi Marjie, Were you not aware that there are too many of those annoying performance events at the National Specialty? Shame on those members who want to show their versatile dogs, or those members who want to compete and have fun with their dogs who are not as gifted in the conformation department - all you do, is create work and headaches for the specialty committee. Get a life, and make sure it is in the conformation ring. Tongue in cheek, Sharon Montville - Firstrax - Colorado P.S. I have heard it suggested that there should be 2 national specialties - one for conformation, and one for performance. What a lovely plan for encouraging the development of separate performance and conformation lines within our breed. NOT. __ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com
Re: Breeding
Have been on vacation, just getting caught up. Had to chime in on the breeding topic - pros/cons of linebreeding, inbreeding, outcrossing. There have already been some excellent responses on this topic. I just want to add - there is no safe formula for breeding! The more you know about the dogs whose names show up in the pedigree - as well as the aunts, uncles, siblings, half-siblings whose names do NOT show up in the pedigree - the better chance you have a making a good decision. But still it's no guarantee! The other side of the knowledge coin is you can end up knowing so much that you end up too scared to breed! Breeding is not for the faint of heart. A good breeder will learn from mistakes. A good breeder will look under the rocks for the bad news, instead of following the ignorance is bliss route. Sometimes a good breeder takes a chance with less pedigree info than she would normally prefer - she will be upfront with her puppy buyers and not deceive them that no news is good news and will track the strengths and weaknesses of the resulting litter to help fill in some of the information gaps. Strengths and weaknesses include health, but also temperament and appearance. Good breeders, being only human, sometimes make mistakes - it is how they handle mistakes that sets them apart from those who just breed these dogs for money. Good breeders do take risks - because any breeding is inherently risky. Good breeders can identify the risks they are taking - of course, there are often hidden risks they are as yet unaware of. Often, outcrossing is recommended as the safest approach for a beginning breeder. I disagree. That is twice as many dogs that you have to research!! The best bet for a beginning breeder is to be mentored by an experienced breeder who knows the bitch's pedigree well and can suggest possible studs. Outcrossing over and over, with no plan, is basically random breeding and this practice ruins breeds. Not so much due to the outcrossing itself, but due to the non-selective approach that generally accompanies it. Many novices think outcrossing is safe so they just do it. The ONLY selection pressure applied was that the dam and sire were not related - never mind that both have soft toplines, the sire has a terrible front and the dam has a weak rear, and health history - well, they're both alive and kicking at 18 months, what more could you ask? The best breeders are selective. Whether they inbreed, linebreed, or outcross, they are selecting. If they claim to emphasize temperament and a nice typey bitch is a psycho as they come, she is spayed without having a litter. (Another breeder might not place temperament as a top priority, so this bitch might fit into their breeding program.) Maybe their bitch herself has a great temperament, but it is known that her sire's side has more than its share of nutcases - well, forget linebreeding on the sire's side, if temperament is top priority. Maybe it's not - maybe her sire's side has outstanding longevity and that is what a different breeder places as top priority. It has been shown, that the more traits a breeder is trying to select for, the less successful overall she will be in reaching the goal. It's really hard to have it all - so, prioritizing is a necessity. Priorities can shift as a breeding program progresses - but constantly shifting priorities just to make your current dog breedable is a shaky approach. Inbreeding, linebreeding, outcrossing - these are all methods to carry out the selection process... But without knowledge and selection, the method chosen is almost meaningless (and probably based on convenience as well - if the closest/cheapest stud available is an outcross, use him - if he happens to be dad to the dam, use him - no matter what, this type of approach is basically RANDOM breeding). Sharon Montville - Firstrax Bernese - Colorado Breeders are always learning. You start out not knowing much and if you are lucky, you know you don't know much. Over the years, you collect the good news and the bad news... then you know a little more. You never know it all - but you never let the fact that you will never know it all, keep you from trying! The benefit of being a member of the national and/or regional clubs, is you get to learn from others' experiences as well. __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop! http://platinum.yahoo.com
Fw: Imported Dogs
From: Jannel [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Fri Mar 14, 2003 9:34 pm Subject: Imported Dogs This was in The New York City Magazine on 3-10-2003. We are not the only breed having problems with imports. News From Russia With Trouble Frenchies may be Steve Martins new best friendsbut when these It dogs hail from Moscow, watch out! By Ethan Brown What Men in Black did for pugs and 101 Dalmatians did for the black-and-whites of the dog world, Steve Martin and Queen Latifah are about to do for French bulldogs, via the just-opened Bringing Down the House. But anyone who saw Martin mugging with a Frenchie on Page 6 last week and is inspired to rush out and buy one should know that many of the current It dogs sold in pet stores and on the Internet come from Russia. And that can mean trouble. I should know: My seemingly healthy, one-year-old Russian French bulldog suddenly collapsed and died while playing with our pug not long ago. I later found out that Im not alone: A growing number of New Yorkers who, like us, purchased a Frenchie shipped from Russia are experiencing dramatic health problems. The dogs are sold for up to $3,000, but that doesnt compare with the money owners are shelling out for veterinary bills. I spent $1,500 for surgery for a throat infection, says Audra Allen of her Russian Frenchie, Wilbur. And now Im saving up for a $5,000 hip-replacement surgery. Allen, who runs a doggy day-care service, bought Wilbur from a broker who put an ad in the Daily News. Russian Frenchies from disreputable dealers are a major problem, says Charlotte Creeley, founder of the French Bulldog Rescue Network, who knows of two other deaths and countless maladies. A good deal of the dogs from Russia have no veterinary records. Theyre often taken from their mother at four to five weeks, well before the eight to twelve weeks required for small dogs. This can lead to enormous health problems. Creeley adds that some Russian dogs exhibit unusually aggressive behavior. People expect a docile Frenchie, and they end up with a dog thats more like a bull terrier. That was certainly the case with our dog, whose run-ins with our pug reached the kind of violent denouements one would expect from a pit-bull fight. While there are U.S. laws regarding the health of imported animals, Creeley suspects that some Russian Frenchies are smuggled in. The reputable Russian breeders, she says, are as eager to stop this as we are. Teton BMD Jannel Ohio Saw this and noticed that it was ok to cross-post; see the next message on this topic. Sharon Montville - Firstrax - Colorado __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Web Hosting - establish your business online http://webhosting.yahoo.com
Fw: Article Follow Up (Imported Dogs)
From: Jannel [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Sun Mar 16, 2003 4:36 pm Subject: Article Follow up This is a follow up to the New York City Magazine article. Permission was granted to cross-post. The New York Magazine staff writer Ethan Brown who wrote the short piece on Russian Frenchies called. For those who don't already know the story, he had a Russian import Frenchie bitch that was the love of his life that died suddenly of heart failure at just a year and a half. He subsequently contacted FBRN for a rescue dog, and I had spoken to him on several occasions about our experience with imports. Within hours of the publication of the piece in this Monday's New York Magazine, Inside Edition got wind of the story - they contacted me for the names of French Bulldog knowledgeable vets on both coasts, which I gave them, and they contacted Ethan to set up interviews in NYC. They've done the interviews - these people move with unbelievable speed! - interviewing at least three Russian import owners in NYC: Ethan, the lady he mentioned in his article with the import Wilbur (whose hips are SO bad he wobbles when he walks), and a third person with both an import and a well bred American dog. They are zeroing in directly on the Russian imports. They are going to let Ethan know when the show airs, and he said he would let us know. Maybe it will even give prospective buyers pause before they rush out to buy import Frenchies - or any Frenchies for that matter. Ethan told me that he has received a flood of emails in response to his column from the unhappy owners of import dogs with a horrifying litany of health and temperament problems. It may only be a drop in the bucket in dealing with the import problem, but at least it's a drop! Charlotte Creeley Teton BMD Jannel Ohio = forwarded by: Sharon Montville - Firstrax - Colorado __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Web Hosting - establish your business online http://webhosting.yahoo.com
AKC/CHF Puppy Buyer's Guide to the Internet
Check it out! http://www.akcchf.org/news/press/releases/byrguide.htm A Puppy Buyers Guide to the Internet: Online Resources to Find and Raise a Healthy Purebred Dog Sharon Montville - Colorado __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more http://taxes.yahoo.com/
Topic that has raised a ruckus for Subaru
Check out: http://www.mypersonaldrive.com/ There is an article there - Pets: The Shadow Population. Sort of down on purebreds... but not completely. I thought people on this list would like to read it. Sharon Montville - Firstrax - Colorado __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more http://taxes.yahoo.com/
RE: Berner database
Pat Long wrote: And yes, it is very important, and we all appreciate your efforts to get all the data submitted, I'll just apologize for any delays - I think some of them are my fault for not picking it up quickly enough! But I am working on it!! Pat, Don't you DARE apologize!! I mean, you can if you want, don't let me stop you BUT I just want you to know there is absolutely no reason for you to. THANK YOU SO MUCH for taking this on. It is a huge job even it you are doing it for the interim. It can be a little confusing because of there being non-internet and internet versions of the database. The updates as I understand it, go into the non-internet database first. This is also the database that is used to generate hard copy reports and pedigrees (for a small fee). Eventually the internet version of the database gets updated - but as I understand it, this does require some effort and is not something that is done on a daily or even weekly basis. Berner-Garde is an amazing source of information and it is exciting to see more pet owners taking the initiative to enter their dogs in this database, even if their breeder doesn't help (I am a breeder who does help facilitate getting health data on pups I have bred, into this database). THANK YOU PAT! Sharon Montville - Firstrax Bernese - Colorado P.S. For those who have never visited Berner-Garde - Here are some names to use to browse in Berner-Garde at www.bernergarde.org (with titles omitted): Woodmoor's Evening Star Woodmoor's Black Diamond Nashems Solid Searcher Firstrax Tanzanight __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Send Flowers for Valentine's Day http://shopping.yahoo.com
Re: left over puppy
Mark, You know that I have been very impressed by how you have persevered and made the right contacts in the process of starting your BMD breeding program. I was appalled to hear that you had been referred to as a puppy mill but I knew you weren't... and am glad to hear it was all a mistake. I agree an apology would be nice. But PLEASE do not make the mistake of over-empathizing and/or over-sympathizing with careless breeders who breed simply because they want to and would like some extra cash (if things go just right which they often do not). You are simply not in that category. I can see how you would be sensitive about mis-understood intentions since you were a victim of that yourself. I know at least one member of this list politely contacted the poster about her pup, for more info - and last I heard, the poster had not responded. This was recent and maybe she doesn't live on e-mail, so she may get around to it later with a knowledgeable reply. I also get this list in digest form so am often behind the latest posts. Maybe I expect too much of people... but I'm sorry, I do not understand how anyone could read Berner-l and the info at berner.org and NOT realize that the regional clubs are their best resource in a situation like this. True, the regional clubs expect a certain standard of conduct in order to be generally accepted - such things as health screening, both litter parents on AKC full registration, etc. So if an individual has no intention of making any effort to follow generally accepted as responsible breeding practices, then contacting the club might not be worth the effort, since they have no intention of learning how to be a responsible breeder. But for someone who needs help but is well-intentioned, the regional club is the place to start. By advising the poster to contact the closest club, I was actually assuming that she was well-intentioned. By the way - I am pretty sure I saw an ad for this litter on the internet somewhere - maybe not, but the name rang a bell. Coulda been just from Berner-l. AND, I am NOT against internet ads, by the way. That is not a condemnation of any sort. This list is a wonderful source of info. However, the BEST source for a novice is the regional club. There is too much anonymity on the internet so it is hard to know if someone is good or bad - I have made assumptions both ways in the past, only to get more reliable info later showing my initial assumption was wrong. My main assumption about this particular poster was that she lacked some critical knowledge, whether that assumption was right or wrong I do not know. However, as to her intentions I tried to assume the best. When you deal with this type of thing week in and week out, and get involved with rescue of dogs from irresponsible breeders (including some national club members), it is hard not to get preachy. I know it is offensive to quite a few people. However, I am basically intolerant when it comes to careless breeding. I would like to find a way to encourage more breeders to be responsible and knowledgeable - but I suspect that many will not get the hang of health screening until they get sued by the owners of the unsound pups that they produced from unscreened parents. True, unsound pups can be produced from screened parents - but at least if the parents are screened and clear and from documented lines, there is evidence the breeder did take the available measures to reduce the risks. When unsound pups are produced from unscreened parents, there is no such evidence. Different people have different approaches. You can't please all of the people all of the time. And I happen to know that I did not displease all of the people this time, either. I know I can't turn every breeder into a responsible one - but if their intentions are good, I don't think my attitude is going to change that. For example, you do not like my approach but it's not going to make you breed a litter irresponsibly as a result, just to spite me! And some people, who just never thought of the concept of responsible breeding before, may be more enlightened as a result of this discussion. I really am not judgemental - last I checked, God hasn't asked me to perform that duty for Him yet. I just am NOT tolerant of careless breeding and any situation that raises red flags, will often prompt some comment from me, comparing/contrasting responsible vs irresponsible practices - whether or not the actual situation is in fact a case of carelessness. Thanks for sending the photo of the pups!!! Congrats on your litter and thank you for setting a good example for other novice BMD breeders. I know you had some hurdles to overcome, but you stayed the course and did not compromise - I respect that immensely. Sharon Montville - Firstrax - Colorado __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com
Regarding the left-over puppy
Help!!! We have 1 beautiful berner pup left a little girl she is a little over 3 months old and we need to sell her. I can not have a puppy left (if this keeps up I might have one from every littler). I need to sell her. Any ideas on how to get the word out without using the paper. Carole PLEASE visit www.bmdca.org, click on BMD Clubs and find the closest regional club, and contact it. This type of situation should not happen to a knowledgeable breeder who is well-connected in the breed. Connected breeders may still have a situation where a buyer backs out at the last minute but do not have to resort to advertising the pup on Berner-l. Join the club, learn and get connected as well. You might consider a donation to the regional club's Rescue group, as well. Perhaps the stud dog owner can help - or is this one of those breeding pair situations? I am sorry to be such a wet blanket about this, but those of us who have been involved with this breed for anywhere from 5-30+ years, cannot help being dismayed by this type of situation - which was rare 5 years ago and is rapidly becoming common. Maybe this is a sign to decrease production Using the paper is not necessarily a bad thing by the way, if you screen the inquirers carefully and educate them about the breed, especially the pros and cons, instead of just trying to make a sale. I am sure some people reading this message will wonder why all the fuss... but the breed we know and love exists as it is due to breeders CARING about the BREED - breeders who look beyond their own backyard... I realize this is a foreign mindset to many, who think a dog is just a dog. I admit to being a bit fanatic about this and I am sorry if it turns you off. It is just sad to see the hard work of dedicated breeders over the years, being quickly overshadowed by mass-production of pups by people who care nothing about the breed's future. I am not applying this label to the person who sent this e-mail, although I am hoping that she takes measures to avoid being in this situation again. Mistakes happen and if you use them as learning tools, the end result is positive. We all had to start somewhere. Sharon Montville - Firstrax - Colorado __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com
OT: feline osteosarcoma
Do any list members have experience with feline osteosarcoma? My 12-year-old red tabby American Shorthair, Flounder, was tentatively diagnosed with osteosarcoma in his rear knee today. We will be doing more tests and if it has not spread, I guess he will live out his days 3-legged. Apparently this cancer is very uncommon in cats (my vet has only seen one other case, in the jaw). He is also borderline hyperthyroid. To make this Berner-related: Tanzi took very good care of him at the vet's today. She went along to get a vaccination and a microchip. She nuzzled and licked him alot, much more gently than usual, and laid down by his crate when he was in it, like she was guarding him. Sharon Montville - Firstrax - Colorado __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com
Re: A Brag for the Budman
Congratulations! But, enquiring minds want to know: what does Daisy think about this?? Sharon Montville - Firstrax - Colorado __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com
State of the Breed (dog on the mt, whatever)
It is very important to remember this fact about the Bernese in the USA: This is no longer a rare breed. I will say it again for emphasis - this is NOT a rare breed. So, I just don't understand why people are paying top dollar for a puppy just because it is a BMD. I don't understand why people are spending more than 1000 of their hard-earned dollars, for the privilege of spending thousands more in vet bills, just because the puppy is a Bernese Mountain Dog. Yes, they ARE cute - but so are most puppies. I could *sort of* understand it when this breed WAS rare, and truly in short supply... I could sort of understand how people would pay the big bucks. But today - NO WAY. This breed is everywhere, owned by everyone. This is no longer a special breed in the sense that when you are on the other end of the lead, you get alot of attention because people are so surprised to see a BMD, or don't know what breed it is, whatever. (not to say this breed is not precious and special to ME and the many other owners who love their dogs...just like boxers are dear to their owners, and yorkies, cocker spaniels, labs, etc. - of course all dogs are special). The point I am making is this - Berners are now well on their way to being out and out common. How many people pay $1500 for a Golden Retriever pup out of non-champion, untitled parents? How many people pay $1500 for a BMD out of non-champion parents - sadly, far too many. That said - WELL-BRED Bernese Mountain Dogs are still rare and always will be. In fact, WELL-BRED dogs of almost every breed, are rare in this country. My sister has a lovely Golden - a spayed pet - and she gets noticed quite a bit when she takes her out, because she is clearly a WELL-BRED dog. My sister paid $900 fo her with a s/n contract - a bit more than the typical BYB price of $300-$600 depending on their brazeness. Her breeder, like other responsible breeders, KNOWS the standard and plans breedings with that in mind. As a result, Tusker looks nothing like your garden variety golden retriever. She might as well be a different breed. I think we will be seeing a huge increase in garden variety Berners - soon. For the most part, I agree with Susan that the breed will save itself - although it remains to be seen whether Berners become the next Golden (which did NOT save itself - the litters are too large) or the next Saint (a breed which basically DID save itself). Saints overall are not in favor at the puppy mills anymore - not profitable. I pray every day that Berners in the puppy mills will not be fertile. This breed is, generally, not the most fertile - lots of cystic ovaries, short-cycling bitches, dogs with sperm abnormalities or low drive. In addition, many bitches require c-sections and many pups are slow starters to the point that some die shortly after birth (very common with inexperienced breeders who don't have someone more knowledgeable assisting). If people weren't so willing to pay $1500+ then this breed would be a money loser for the commercial producers. The sooner the public GETS A CLUE and stops forking over the money to the numerous shysters selling BMDs on the internet (like many of the current crop at sites such as Yahoo), the better the future will look for this breed. There are some good breeders who advertise on the internet - and they often provide alot of info in their ads to set them apart - registered names, clearances, titles on the actual litter parents (none of this from championship lines baloney - yeah, 3 or 4 generations back). Avoid the ads that emphasize in time for Christmas - that is a major red flag and very common on the internet at this time of year. Sometimes pups do end up being ready for the new homes at Christmas but a good breeder will try to counteract the negatives associated with this timing, rather than capitalize on it as a selling point. Finding a Berner pup from a really good, careful, conscientious breeder is still a challenge. And of course, bringing a Berner pup - or ANY pup - into your family always brings the risk of high vet bills. Stuff happens - even when the breeder was careful to plan a breeding with health as a major factor. The state of the breed has changed dramatically in just two short, sad years. Not sure what the next two will bring. I am not opposed to more being bred... quantity is not the evil, low quality is... We need MORE breeders who are truly up to the challenge of breeding responsibly. Sharon Montville - Firstrax - Colorado __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com
Re: reading pedigrees
All evaluations - OFA, CERF, GDC - except PennHIP are verifiable online. GDC does not indicate whether or not the dog was affected or unaffected - just that it was evaluated BUT unaffected evaluations are found in Berner-Garde. Also, my first concern is that the dog WAS evaluated - not whether it was affected/unaffected (my second concern, right behind the first, is of course the result). By the way - CERF will be adding the categories to the online verifications, as of Dec. 2, 2002. These are conditions that do not preclude a CERF number, like entropion, certain cataracts, etc. If you are considering adding a BMD to your family, do your yourself a huge favor and become familiar with these sites. You can see for yourself that breeders DO exist who actually DO all these screenings. So when you contact an internet breeder who hems and haws when you ask about certifications, you know it is a good idea to pass on that litter. My favorite tool is Berner-Garde. As a breeder I use this site all the time. I also use it when checking up on the flood of new internet advertisers, to get a feel for their breeding methods (sadly, most appear to be below the average club breeder). Of course, Berner-Garde provides preliminary info but in the end, it is important to actually talk to the breeder. Some of the good breeders can still be a little put off when being interrogated by a PPO about pedigrees, clearances, Berner-Garde, etc. Simply put, we aren't used to it. WE are used to telling YOU all this stuff but we are not used to YOU demanding this info. So please be understanding and tell them you are trying to make sure you are not dealing with a mass producer or a BYB because you care about the breed and you are new to all this... if they truly care about the breed, that should soften 'em up. Not all good breeders are on the internet and not all are as up-to-date on the current sad state of affairs for this breed. I know we cannot stop the commercial breeders and the Backyard Breeders from mating a male BMD to a female BMD. That is what they do - they mate dogs. They do not BREED dogs. They are not breeders whose main goal is improving the breed. They are mating dogs for profit or in the case of many BYBs, purely out of ignorance. We used to not have many BYBs in this breed, because most pet owners got their pup from a responsible Breeder who in turn educated them about why their pet had to be spayed or neutered. The commercial expert maters don't bother with this - they say you bought the pup, it's yours, go ahead and breed if you want, it's a free country, God bless you, thanks for your check. We may not be able to stop them, but by making it clear that you will not pay prices of $1000 and up for pups from unknown backgrounds, maybe we can get them to do more of the things that real Breeders do... Happy Thanksgiving to all. I am thankful for many things, one of which is for all the people who are fighting to save this breed, in so many ways. It does all add up, so hang in there! Sharon Montville - Firstrax - Colorado __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com
RE: reading pedigrees
Hi Pat, You are correct. I did not make my statement clearly enough. But the fact is, MOST GDC unaffected evaluations end up in Berner-Garde without any action by the owner of the dog. Affecteds are another story. The KinReports that I have ordered in the past, show the dog's GDC number, name, titles if any, birthdate, and then list evaluations for hips, elbows, shoulder, tarsus, eyes, and tumor. Under hips you will see Unaff meaning no evidence of HD (you do not get the E, G, or A rating). Or, you see Uni-Dy for unilateral dyplasia, or Bil-Dy for bilateral dysplasia. Same for elbows. Don't know much about shoulders and tarsus (most are - on my reports which means not evaluated). Eyes show Unaff or Affect - and there is no way of knowing if it is cataracts or PRA or ?. I wrote to them a few years ago about that and got a reply that did not make alot of sense to me, as a programmer...if you want the data bad enough there is ALWAYS a way... but it can get expensive and I figured that was the real reason and that did make sense to me. Under Tumor you see Mast for mast cell, Hist for histiocytosis - there may be other diagnoses you can see in that column but those were the only ones I saw on my reports. (BTW - for the eyes they do not even show uni-aff or bil-aff... but they do for hips. They do not show PRA or cat... yet under tumor they show mast or hist. So it was very difficult for me to understand the lack of better eye info. There are SO MANY eye problems...) Online you can see if dogs were evaluated by GDC, and how many relatives were evaluated by GDC - which helps you know if you will get much data back when you order a KinReport. I sometimes do KinReports on the sire/dam of the dog I am interested in, rather than the dog itself - unless the dog itself has already produced alot of pups. You CAN get most unaffected ratings for hips and elbows, in Berner-Garde - maybe not all. But as I said, you should always TALK to the breeder/owner of the dog. If the stories don't match, then I think it's time to bring in a third party - like GDC. The reason I harp on this so much is I KNOW what the less responsible approach to clearances is... and the most drastic is to simply LIE and hope you don't get caught. It is my goal to help puppy buyers know how to get independent verification. Even if Berner-Garde can not claim - and in fact, does not claim and makes that very clear - to be the final authority on clearances and pedigrees, it is a great place to start! And I know that all the info on my dogs is accurate (although I have some updating to do...). Sharon Montville - Firstrax - Colorado --- Pat Long Paul Dangel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: No GDC evaluations are verifiable on line, and not all of the unaffected GDC certifications are going to be in Berner-Garde. Most of them are, but not all. But with enough motivation, you can contact GDC and hound them for the actual certifications. You don't get the actual certifications on the Kin Report, so don't expect them there. It's a special request, but they can be requested. Pat Long, a babysat Echo, (Luther, and a babysat Sam) Berwyn PA __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com
California Puppy Lemon Law
This is just a small part of the law. The full information can be read at www.hua.org under the Puppy Lemon Laws. One thing to note, this applies to breeders but not to pet dealers. A breeder is defined as someone who sells all or part of 3 or more litters or 20 or more dogs, within a year. The sale of dogs is subject to consumer protection regulation. In the event that a California licensed veterinarian states in writing that your dog is unfit for purchase because it became ill due to an illness or disease that existed within 15 days following delivery to you, or within one year in the case of congenital or hereditary condition, you may choose one of the following: (1) Return your dog and receive a refund of the purchase price, plus sales tax, and receive reimbursement for reasonable veterinarian fees up to the cost of the dog, plus sales tax. (2) Return your dog and receive a dog of your choice of equivalent value, providing a replacement dog is available, and receive reimbursement for reasonable veterinarian fees up to the cost of the dog, plus sales tax. (3) Keep the dog and receive reimbursement for reasonable veterinarian fees up to 150 percent of the original purchase price of the dog plus sales tax on the original purchase price of the dog. In the event your dog dies, you may receive a refund for the purchase price of the dog, plus sales tax, or a replacement dog of your choice, of equivalent value, and reimbursement for reasonable veterinary fees for the diagnosis and treatment of the dog, if a veterinarian, licensed in this state, states in writing that the dog has died due to an illness or disease that existed within 15 days after the purchaser obtained physical possession of the dog after the sale by a dog breeder, or states that the dog has died due to a congenital or hereditary condition that was diagnosed by the veterinarian within one year after the purchaser obtained physical possession of the dog after the sale by a dog breeder. These fees may not exceed the purchase price of the dog, plus sales tax. Sharon Montville - Firstrax - Colorado __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com
Sick puppies sold in Northglenn, CO pet store
Here is a link to an article on allegedly sick pups sold from a pet store in Northglenn, Colorado. It has other interesting links at the end. This is not Berner-specific but it is important information for anyone looking for any breed of puppy, including BMD. http://news4colorado.com/topstories/local_story_325202512.html Sharon Montville - Firstrax - Colorado __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com
Re: celebtrating seniors
Mi-ja's Solo Singer NDD, BNDD, CGC aka Cricket 9/4/91 (11 yrs., 2 mos.) Sajan's Vivacious Vicka aka Vicka 2-16-92 (10 yrs, 8 mos) Talley 9-30-90 (11 yrs, 1 mo.) Ch. Rainbow La Fraisiere CGC aka Bogen - 2-21-92 (10 yrs, 8mos) CH Degrasso's Harleigh V Legacy-2-18-92 (10yrs, 8mos) Maine's Nordic Tatoo - 2/23/92 (10yrs,8mos) U-CDX Brighteye Chalet's Haley UD NA OAJ Can CD 7-9-01 (11 yrs. 5 months) Ch. Friichnicht Big Deal, CD - Born 9/12/91 -- 11 years, 2 months -- AND GOING STRONG Ch Woodmoor's Evening Star CD - 5/26/91 - (11yrs, 6 mos) - Hailey, my first Berner Sharon Montville - Firstrax Bernese - Colorado __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site http://webhosting.yahoo.com
Stud Book and other options
I didn't get a digest yesterday and based on some of the replies in the one I just got (which is squentially numbered after the one I got on Friday) I would guess maybe some posts didn't get into the digest. In regard to Renee looking for the Annual Stud Book - the AKC publishes a list of first time sires and dams. It is text only and available at www.akc.org thru their online store. That may not be what you had in mind. The BMDCA publishes an annual Year Book - copies of the 2001 Year Book may still be available for sale at www.bmdca.org under Ways and Means. This is a soft-bound, black-and-white photo publication. Dogs owned by BMDCA members who have obtained a title during hte year, are eligible to have their photo and pedigree published in this book. So you get dogs and bitches, and you get spayed/neutered dogs as well as breeding dogs. It is a great book. It is first available at the National specialty, for the prior year. So 2002 will not be available until the National in Calif. Hoflin publishes a Bernese Mountain Dog Annual. It is hard-bound with both color and black-and-white photos and has some great articles in it. I have almost a complete set of these (still need the latest). It is available at www.hoflin.com Sharon Montville - Firstrax - Colorado __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site http://webhosting.yahoo.com
Re: Bloemart's
I recently saw one of their puppies at the International show last weekend, and was envious at the quality of this puppy. He was VERY nice, well bred, with good structure and outstanding temperment. If this is what backyard breeders are producing, then bring them on.it's a damned sight better than what I have seen coming from reputable kennels!! Judy, as with a dog, with a breeder you should look at the Whole Breeder before issuing an endorsement, especially on a public list like this where novices come looking for advice. Couldn't you have just said I saw one of their pups and he was very nice, rather than issuing a blanket invitation to BYBs to do their thing? Maybe you would like to share with us, other reasons that you think this is a kennel for us all to emulate - reasons other than just producing one nice puppy. Also, I am just curious - how active are you in breed rescue? Not being accusatory - but if you are not involved in this activity it would be easier to understand where you are coming from on this topic. If you are active, then I guess I would be looking for more explanation because your post would seem a bit contradictory to me. Sharon Montville - Firstrax - Colorado P.S. I missed the initial post that Judy replied to. __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site http://webhosting.yahoo.com
CAUTION: Internet ads
In checking out the recent internet advertisers, I have found a new crop of less knowledgeable breeders out there. You know they are bad, when you offer educational information in a non-judgemental manner, and they are simply resentful of the intrusion. Now, more than ever: do not pay one cent until you have the registered names of the litter parents. Then look the parents up on the Berner-Garde site. If no data is available, just say no - or, insist on paying a price more in line with the limited research and planning that was done. I would not pay anywhere close to $1000 to a clueless, ignorant breeder. I would pay more in line with the cost a rescue - about $300. BE CAREFUL! I have been encouraging good breeders to advertise on the internet, but only a few are game... there are a few good ones out there and you will know who they are, based on the depth of verififiable information that they provide. The sleazebags will provide evasive answers at best. Sharon Montville - Firstrax - Colorado Springs __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site http://webhosting.yahoo.com
Re: KY Jelly -- Vickey her Boy
...KY Jelly now has bacteriacides in it which make it somewhat spermicidal. DON'T use it in a breeding context! Furthermore, I have even heard that AI equipment should be rinsed with distilled water - NOT chlorinated tap water. Fertility can be a fragile thing. Unless we're talking about teens in the backseat or intact dogs of opposite sex and different breeds in the backyard. Sharon Montville - Firstrax - Colorado __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site http://webhosting.yahoo.com
Re: ongoing discussion
The way I interpreted Pat's comment about breeders who force an owner to finish the CH on a show quality pup was like this... not sure if this was what she meant or not: Oftentimes, the breeder has a pup or two left s/he thinks are nice and wants to see these pups in a show home. In the not-so-distant past, Bernese were hard to find. So a person who really wanted just-a-pet might get roped into a show pup just to get a puppy from decent lines, soon... This person has NO intention of breeding, just wants a nice dog. They don't really know what is involved, so they agree to show the dog... then regret it. About 7 years ago, I was having a hard time deciding which girl pup to keep - both were nice. I kept both a while - until about 14 weeks - and then knew who I was keeping... the other girl was also nice. A wonderful couple, new to Bernese, wanted the one I was letting go. I talked to them about co-ownership, showing, etc. - clearly they just wanted a pet and so she was sold as a pet on spay/neuter contract. She is a beautiful dog. After she was spayed, her owners expressed regret about her lost show career and it was very simple - I assured them their dog wasn't losing any sleep over it!! She ended up with a unilateral grade 1 elbow so I was so glad that she was not placed as a breeding prospect (but to answer Darcy's topic, I do not think it is a crime to carefully and cautiously breed - and then *follow-up* on this breeding - a bitch with Grade 1 ED). Now, Sandy's example seemed to focus on ensuring that a show prospect is finished BEFORE BEING BRED and yes, I agree with Sandy on that. If someone wants to buy a breeding dog from Sandy, and she wants it to be finished before it is bred, I totally support her view on this. Does this make sense? I am not sure I really am getting the point across but I tried! I agree with both of these ladies which may be confusing. Sharon Montville - Firstrax - Colorado __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site http://webhosting.yahoo.com
re: OKay, now what
My personal ethics do not allow me to profit off of a puppy with genetic problems that result in expensive treatment, or death of the puppy, before age 2. Now, the way I breed, I am so far in the hole that it's not funny so I am not having to deal with the profit problem. I have had so many $1000+ missed breedings - where you have $1000 in DIRECT breeding costs invested before the litter is born - that it will take me a long time to catch up. I have not had to do it yet, and I am careful about what I put in writing especially with people I have only recently met, but my basic policy is that the thing that will help a buyer most if their pup has to have surgery for HD, is help with the vet bills and offering knowledgeable support and advice (although I have not had a dog who had to undergo HD surgery so my direct experience would be limited). This is not a black-and-white situation and one of the things I find most difficult, is advising PPOs about guarantees. The commercial breeders love to proudly proclaim their guarantees and all I can see, PLEASE read the fine print! Many of these so-called guarantees are meaningless and only serve to direct more profuit their way. There are some extremely responsible breeders who are not deep pockets and cannot assume full financial responsibility for a litter of 10 that all needed HD surgery... despite from excellent family background for orthopedics. So where do you draw the line? Does it help the breed to tell these breeders, don't breed if you can't pay for a boatload of surgeries on the puppies you produce? I don't think so. This is a complex topic and I think one that requires the heart as well as the head. Sharon Montville - Firstrax - Colorado __ Do you Yahoo!? U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive greatest hits videos http://launch.yahoo.com/u2
re: the nature/nurture HD discussion
Melissa, Thank you for sharing your experience with HD. You do have a point regarding the breeding dogs. I'm not sure that I could personally try to stress to the max to make sure the dog is unaffected, but I can appreciate the value in doing that. As a breeder, I usually have more dogs than the typical pet owner. I have had as many as 5 at once and that is really my maximum. Currently I have 4. I think when you have a group of dogs who are not kept in individual kennels, they get more free exercise than an only dog. I have had really good luck with my 5 and I sometimes wonder if it isn't due to the free exercise they get. I feed Canidae and I keep my dogs on the lean side. Since they are show dogs, they cannot be too lean however. I do subscribe to the leanness for a longer life theory. As I also have horses, I am familiar with the concept of killing with kindness - you can have too much of a good thing and horses do not need to be fat either. As you mentioned, HD is caused by multiple genes and I have heard stories from older breeders about how some of their most disappointing breedings from an orthopedic standpoint, have been outcrosses. I think this is due to the situation that you described. One line is missing one gene, the other line is missing another gene - so as a result, you have great orthopedics in both lines. But pair these two lines together and you have the opportunity to produce pups with a full set of HD genes. Sharon Montville - Firstrax - Colorado __ Do you Yahoo!? U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive greatest hits videos http://launch.yahoo.com/u2
re: the nature/nurture HD discussion
I think the point Mary-Ann is making is this: If a dog is fed too much, but does NOT have the genes for HD, it will NOT develop HD. If a dog is fed too much, and DOES have the genes for HD, it WILL develop HD. If a dog is kept lean and exercised an optimal amount(that is, enough to build muscle but not so much as to cause overuse injury), even if it has the genes for HD, these genes may not be expressed - the x-rays will pass (probably fair) and the dog will not be lame. If a dog is kept lean and exercised at the optimal level, but was dealt a really bad deck of HD genes, this dog will show severe HD on x-ray and may or may not have severe lameness as well. As someone who loves this breed, I want to see a low incidence of HD. So I prefer that dogs be kept lean and are exercised appropriately. It may mask some of the HD genes in my lines - this is one case where I can live with the loss of data. I cannot imagine telling my puppy buyers, get 'em nice and fat and run 'em til they drop, so I will really know whether they got the HD genes or not. I don't think Mary-Ann is being close-minded about the impact of nutrition on development of HD. Nutrition can and does have an impact - but it is NOT the root cause of HD - GENETICS is the cause. Mary-Ann is absolutely right that breeders need to take responsibility instead of wagging their finger at the poor pup owner, who by the way is the one who will be the most impacted. It is fine to mention that nutrition is important. But when the statement HD is a genetic disease is omitted, this just gives breeders license to make dicey breeding decisions and keep raking in the big bucks for carelessly bred puppies. Sharon Montville - Firstrax - Colorado __ Do you Yahoo!? U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive greatest hits videos http://launch.yahoo.com/u2
RE: Spaying...Opinions, Please, Regarding Timing
One of the mammary tumor cases mentioned by Pat was my dog Hailey. She is still alive at almost 11.5 years of age. (She was the case mentioned as had been bred, and was spayed at age 5.5.) If I remember correctly she was diagnosed with the mammary tumor about 6 months after she was spayed. Her daughter Zyla has also been bred and was spayed at age 6.5. She just turned 7. No mammary tumors yet. I do keep an eye out for them. If you find them early enough, before they metastasize, surgical removal is often a total cure. We did no other supportive therapy - just removed it. Hailey's was the size of a small-ish marble, and was very firm. Not so much of a worry for owners of girls who were spayed young... but belly rubs are a great opportunity to check your retired brood bitches. Hailey is slowing down... cannot get upstairs without help. But once she's up and moving, she still has a nice trot. I enjoy having my 3 generations of girls - Hailey, Zyla and 2-yr-old Tanzi. Hailey is very bonded with Tanzi - the 2-yr-old terror with the grand old lady. Many memories that I will treasure always! Sharon Montville - Firstrax - Colorado __ Do you Yahoo!? U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive greatest hits videos http://launch.yahoo.com/u2
Rambling about hips
-Garde, the data is available to be used; if YOU refuse to buy pups from Pet stores, Pet stores will not profit off of selling puppies). Another method involves including the cost of x-rays in the puppy price, so that when the dog turns two the breeder pays for the x-rays at no additional cost to the owner (who did pay for the x-rays as part of the initial purchase price). I realize that there are new readers on the berner-l and this may be a new concept for you - please find out more at www.bmdca.org under the Info Series... lots of great topics there. There are lots of so-called breeders out there these days who just want to make a fast buck off of this breed's popularity - please do NOT encourage them to stick with this breed. Please learn as much as you can before you add a Bernese pup to your family and please don't be in a hurry. Sharon Montville - Firstrax - Colorado __ Do you Yahoo!? U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive greatest hits videos http://launch.yahoo.com/u2
Re: Backyard Breeders
This may be a burnt out subject, but I have only been in contact with the Berner list for a few weeks. I am wondering what exactly is meant by a back yard breeder?. I assume it is someone who breeds their female dog for the reasons of it being a nice thing for the family to experience or something along those lines. snip I don't know what would be wrong with someone trying out breeding if they feel called to do so. snip Here in Switzerland, breeding is very serious time-consuming work intensive undertaking with endless requirements. We don't even have pet stores that sell dogs. It would seem to me that if an individual would be willing to go through all the requirements for breeding, then they would also be rather serious in their efforts. You'll probably get lots of responses on this. Yes, Backyard Breeder (BYB) is a negative term in the USA. It does not refer to where the dogs live. I remember one message years ago where the writer claimed not to be a BYB because his dogs bred on the rug in the dining room! I am not a backyard breeder - but I do not have a kennel for my dogs. They have a fenced yard, my house, and my bed... You mentioned endless requirements - well, in the USA there are no endless requirements! Get a dog, get a bitch, put 'em together and see what happens - advertise the litter in the newspaper and sell to the first takers. Backyard could be a synonym for casual or uncommitted - would that make more sense to you? The more committed breeders make their own requirements and follow them because they believe that breeding is a serious responsibility - not because they must. Hope this makes sense! Sharon Montville - Firstrax - Colorado __ Do you Yahoo!? Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos More http://faith.yahoo.com
