Re: [Bitcoin-development] Concerns Regarding Threats by a Developer to Remove Commit Access from Other Developers

2015-06-19 Thread GC

When is the right time to allow space pressure to rise that ratio?
When the subsidy is at 1.5625, for example, it may be too late to

I don¹t believe we have to decide, the miners will do that and are doing
that already.

start a non-catastrophic transition from subsidies to fees.
I don't claim to know that, but it's something that worries me.
No matter how many people say that's too far away in the future to
worry about it, I still worry about it and I'm sure more people do.
What if when it's time to care about it we discover that we should
have started to do things about it long ago to minimize the risks of
this transition?

Hmmm. What should be the price of an email? How much should DARPA have
charged for using TCP/IP?

I see a lot of well-paid, first-world technologists arguing for commercial
returns on a nacent protocol which could could offer benefits to the
unbanked.
Is that really the vision: to (re)build a de-centralized Paypal with
slightly cheaper fees and cool hooks into off-chain commercial systems
providing profits for the already rich?

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Re: [Bitcoin-development] Concerns Regarding Threats by a Developer to Remove Commit Access from Other Developers

2015-06-19 Thread GC
Benjamin,

Timeframe for network congestion and users experiencing service
degradation = between now and middle of next year.

Timeframe for transaction fees topping block reward fees = many years in
the future, based on current ratio of block reward to fees.

What is the more pressing requirement now? A working ³fee market² or a
reliable, useful payment network that scales without falling over in the
next 2-3 years.

On 19/6/15 4:53 pm, Benjamin benjamin.l.cor...@gmail.com wrote:

Yeah, but increasing block-size is not a longterm solution. Necessary
higher fees are a logical consequence of lower subsidies. Bitcoin was
basically free to use at the beginning because miners got paid with
new coins at  the expense of those who already hold coins. Eventually
there needs to be a mechanism which matches supply and demand.

On Fri, Jun 19, 2015 at 11:37 AM, Mike Hearn m...@plan99.net wrote:
 Or alternatively, fix the reasons why users would have negative
 experiences with full blocks


 It's impossible, Mark. By definition if Bitcoin does not have sufficient
 capacity for everyone's transactions, some users who were using it will
be
 kicked out to make way for the others. Whether that happens in some
kind of
 stable organised way or (as with the current code) a fairly chaotic way
 doesn't change the fundamental truth: some users will find their bitcoin
 savings have become uneconomic to spend.

 Here's a recent user complaint that provides a preview of coming
 attractions:

 
https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/39r3bi/breadwallet_asking_me_to
_pay_over_10_network_fee/

 Hello, I'm just trying to send my small Sarutobi-tips stash (12,159
bits)
 onto a paper wallet. When I try to send it, a window pops up stating
 insufficient funds for bitcoin network fee, reduce payment amount by
1,389
 bits? This would be a fee of $0.32 to send my $2.82, leaving me with
$2.50.


 These sorts of complaints will get more frequent and more extreme in the
 coming months. I realise that nobody at Blockstream is  in the position
of
 running an end user facing service, but many of us are  and we will
be
 the ones that face the full anger of ordinary users as Bitcoin hits the
 wall.

 
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