Re: [Bitcoin-development] A critique of bitcoin open source community
On Sun, Oct 20, 2013 at 08:27:47PM -0400, Jeff Garzik wrote: On Sun, Oct 20, 2013 at 6:43 PM, Peter Todd p...@petertodd.org wrote: FWIW I think that BIP's should have been done as a github repository, allowing for dealing with this stuff transparently as a pull-request. It'd also be useful to handle BIP's that way to make it easy to archive them, update them, and keep a log of what and why they were updated. Just put them in markdown format, which is pretty much feature equivalent to the wiki now that markdown supports images. Agreed -- let's do it. I nominate you to do the conversion, and we'll put it up at github.com/bitcoin/bips.git. Done: https://github.com/petertodd/bips/ GitHub supports MediaWiki these days, so just directly copying from 'View Source' in the bitcoin.it wiki worked pretty well; I archived the exact text of BIP. Tables, images and math is all supported by github and look fine, although github doesn't seem to support coloration in tables. Users wishing to edit their pull-req's or create new ones can do so easily by forking the repository - they can see their changes as they go in GitHub. I've probably missed some stuff re: formatting, and I haven't changed any of the submission guideline text in bip 1 yet, but that's probably 90% of the work done. -- 'peter'[:-1]@petertodd.org 000245a735ccc14b98552e152f773c07efa2e89dd7f0463f61cf signature.asc Description: Digital signature -- October Webinars: Code for Performance Free Intel webinars can help you accelerate application performance. Explore tips for MPI, OpenMP, advanced profiling, and more. Get the most from the latest Intel processors and coprocessors. See abstracts and register http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=60135031iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk___ Bitcoin-development mailing list Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
Re: [Bitcoin-development] A critique of bitcoin open source community
I was wondering, would it be possible to create an area where proposals like your NODE_BLOOM and BIP 38 could live? On 2013-10-20, at 11:25 PM, Peter Todd p...@petertodd.org wrote: On Sun, Oct 20, 2013 at 08:27:47PM -0400, Jeff Garzik wrote: On Sun, Oct 20, 2013 at 6:43 PM, Peter Todd p...@petertodd.org wrote: FWIW I think that BIP's should have been done as a github repository, allowing for dealing with this stuff transparently as a pull-request. It'd also be useful to handle BIP's that way to make it easy to archive them, update them, and keep a log of what and why they were updated. Just put them in markdown format, which is pretty much feature equivalent to the wiki now that markdown supports images. Agreed -- let's do it. I nominate you to do the conversion, and we'll put it up at github.com/bitcoin/bips.git. Done: https://github.com/petertodd/bips/ GitHub supports MediaWiki these days, so just directly copying from 'View Source' in the bitcoin.it wiki worked pretty well; I archived the exact text of BIP. Tables, images and math is all supported by github and look fine, although github doesn't seem to support coloration in tables. Users wishing to edit their pull-req's or create new ones can do so easily by forking the repository - they can see their changes as they go in GitHub. I've probably missed some stuff re: formatting, and I haven't changed any of the submission guideline text in bip 1 yet, but that's probably 90% of the work done. -- 'peter'[:-1]@petertodd.org 000245a735ccc14b98552e152f773c07efa2e89dd7f0463f61cf signature.asc Description: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail -- October Webinars: Code for Performance Free Intel webinars can help you accelerate application performance. Explore tips for MPI, OpenMP, advanced profiling, and more. Get the most from the latest Intel processors and coprocessors. See abstracts and register http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=60135031iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk___ Bitcoin-development mailing list Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
Re: [Bitcoin-development] A critique of bitcoin open source community
On Sun, Oct 20, 2013 at 11:40:26PM -0700, Jean-Paul Kogelman wrote: I was wondering, would it be possible to create an area where proposals like your NODE_BLOOM and BIP 38 could live? Sure, I think Jeff mentioned the idea of a specific drafts/ directory within the repository. (could also do a rejected/) Less of an issue in some ways when it's all in git - just point people to your bips fork. -- 'peter'[:-1]@petertodd.org 00099eaa116fac83a2b0e097cae3391c794990e128c8e162d91a signature.asc Description: Digital signature -- October Webinars: Code for Performance Free Intel webinars can help you accelerate application performance. Explore tips for MPI, OpenMP, advanced profiling, and more. Get the most from the latest Intel processors and coprocessors. See abstracts and register http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=60135031iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk___ Bitcoin-development mailing list Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
Re: [Bitcoin-development] A critique of bitcoin open source community
How about putting them into sub directories that map onto the status of the BIP? Reading BIP 1, that would make: Accepted Active Draft Deferred Final Rejected Replaced Withdrawn Would that place NODE_BLOOM and BIP 38 in Deferred? On 2013-10-20, at 11:43 PM, Peter Todd p...@petertodd.org wrote: On Sun, Oct 20, 2013 at 11:40:26PM -0700, Jean-Paul Kogelman wrote: I was wondering, would it be possible to create an area where proposals like your NODE_BLOOM and BIP 38 could live? Sure, I think Jeff mentioned the idea of a specific drafts/ directory within the repository. (could also do a rejected/) Less of an issue in some ways when it's all in git - just point people to your bips fork. -- 'peter'[:-1]@petertodd.org 00099eaa116fac83a2b0e097cae3391c794990e128c8e162d91a signature.asc Description: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail -- October Webinars: Code for Performance Free Intel webinars can help you accelerate application performance. Explore tips for MPI, OpenMP, advanced profiling, and more. Get the most from the latest Intel processors and coprocessors. See abstracts and register http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=60135031iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk___ Bitcoin-development mailing list Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
Re: [Bitcoin-development] A critique of bitcoin open source community
The list comes from BIP 1. On 2013-10-21, at 12:03 AM, Martin Sustrik sust...@250bpm.com wrote: On 21/10/13 08:52, Jean-Paul Kogelman wrote: How about putting them into sub directories that map onto the status of the BIP? Reading BIP 1, that would make: Accepted Active Draft Deferred Final Rejected Replaced Withdrawn Have it been considered to do this via IETF? The process there is hardened by 40 years of experience and 7000+ RFCs. Probably better than anything you can devise yourself. Martin signature.asc Description: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail -- October Webinars: Code for Performance Free Intel webinars can help you accelerate application performance. Explore tips for MPI, OpenMP, advanced profiling, and more. Get the most from the latest Intel processors and coprocessors. See abstracts and register http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=60135031iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk___ Bitcoin-development mailing list Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
Re: [Bitcoin-development] A critique of bitcoin open source community
On 21/10/13 08:52, Jean-Paul Kogelman wrote: How about putting them into sub directories that map onto the status of the BIP? Reading BIP 1, that would make: Accepted Active Draft Deferred Final Rejected Replaced Withdrawn Have it been considered to do this via IETF? The process there is hardened by 40 years of experience and 7000+ RFCs. Probably better than anything you can devise yourself. Martin -- October Webinars: Code for Performance Free Intel webinars can help you accelerate application performance. Explore tips for MPI, OpenMP, advanced profiling, and more. Get the most from the latest Intel processors and coprocessors. See abstracts and register http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=60135031iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Bitcoin-development mailing list Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
Re: [Bitcoin-development] A critique of bitcoin open source community
On 21/10/13 09:07, Jean-Paul Kogelman wrote: The list comes from BIP 1. Sorry, I haven't meant you personally. It was just a generic question about using existing process instead of inventing a new one on the go. Have it been considered to do this via IETF? The process there is hardened by 40 years of experience and 7000+ RFCs. Probably better than anything you can devise yourself. Martin -- October Webinars: Code for Performance Free Intel webinars can help you accelerate application performance. Explore tips for MPI, OpenMP, advanced profiling, and more. Get the most from the latest Intel processors and coprocessors. See abstracts and register http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=60135031iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Bitcoin-development mailing list Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
Re: [Bitcoin-development] A critique of bitcoin open source community
On Mon, Oct 21, 2013 at 11:36 AM, Melvin Carvalho melvincarva...@gmail.com wrote: I've followed quite a few FLOSS projects over the years. Overall, I've been amazingly impressed with the BIP process (dont forget it's used in other systems too -- python?). It seems an agile process, that strikes an great balance between needed features, and documentation. I think that's exactly what will continue bitcoin's momentum in the short to medium term. Indeed. The BIP analogs that immediately come to mind would be the enhancement proposal processes for Python, XMPP, and BitTorrent: http://www.python.org/dev/peps/ http://xmpp.org/xmpp-protocols/xmpp-extensions/ http://www.bittorrent.org/beps/bep_.html -- Arto Bendiken | @bendiken | http://ar.to -- October Webinars: Code for Performance Free Intel webinars can help you accelerate application performance. Explore tips for MPI, OpenMP, advanced profiling, and more. Get the most from the latest Intel processors and coprocessors. See abstracts and register http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=60135031iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Bitcoin-development mailing list Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
Re: [Bitcoin-development] A critique of bitcoin open source community
On 2013-10-21, at 2:44 AM, Arto Bendiken a...@bendiken.net wrote: Indeed. The BIP analogs that immediately come to mind would be the enhancement proposal processes for Python, XMPP, and BitTorrent: Bitcoin's BIP process is directly based off of Python's PEP process. Quote from BIP 1, History: This document was derived heavily from Python's PEP-0001. In many places text was simply copied and modified. signature.asc Description: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail -- October Webinars: Code for Performance Free Intel webinars can help you accelerate application performance. Explore tips for MPI, OpenMP, advanced profiling, and more. Get the most from the latest Intel processors and coprocessors. See abstracts and register http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=60135031iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk___ Bitcoin-development mailing list Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
Re: [Bitcoin-development] A critique of bitcoin open source community
I think it's great to move BIPs to github. I also agree with the states - directories mapping. Git manages moved files well. On 10/21/13, Jean-Paul Kogelman jeanpaulkogel...@me.com wrote: On 2013-10-21, at 2:44 AM, Arto Bendiken a...@bendiken.net wrote: Indeed. The BIP analogs that immediately come to mind would be the enhancement proposal processes for Python, XMPP, and BitTorrent: Bitcoin's BIP process is directly based off of Python's PEP process. Quote from BIP 1, History: This document was derived heavily from Python's PEP-0001. In many places text was simply copied and modified. -- Jorge Timón http://freico.in/ -- October Webinars: Code for Performance Free Intel webinars can help you accelerate application performance. Explore tips for MPI, OpenMP, advanced profiling, and more. Get the most from the latest Intel processors and coprocessors. See abstracts and register http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=60135031iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Bitcoin-development mailing list Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
Re: [Bitcoin-development] A critique of bitcoin open source community
On Sun, Oct 20, 2013 at 1:20 AM, Gregory Maxwell gmaxw...@gmail.com wrote: Since much discussion didn't materialize I went and gave it a technical once over, posting to the forum. At least I now understand where he got the idea of bitcoin devs being a bunch of paranoid, anti-authoritarian nutjobs :-) I've been on a lot of forums in my life but never encountered one with such selfish, unhelpful, trolling, complaining sods (well maybe apart from 15-year old gamers). Nick couldn't have got that idea from discussion on this mailing list or #bitcoin-dev. Please don't send anyone to that jungle. People shouldn't get the idea that that the forum is our development community, or even endorsed by the devs. As for the real developer community, I haven't noticed so much unfriendliness or closedness. But the core devs are with very few people (certainly compared to the number of users) and reviewing and testing takes time so pull requests, proposals and such can linger for a while. Which can indeed be frustrating. Wladimir -- October Webinars: Code for Performance Free Intel webinars can help you accelerate application performance. Explore tips for MPI, OpenMP, advanced profiling, and more. Get the most from the latest Intel processors and coprocessors. See abstracts and register http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=60135031iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk___ Bitcoin-development mailing list Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
Re: [Bitcoin-development] A critique of bitcoin open source community
On Sat, Oct 19, 2013 at 05:52:49PM -0700, Jean-Paul Kogelman wrote: Interesting. The main reason I wrote my proposal was because the only proposal that came close to covering the same area was BIP 39, which at that time had 2 paragraphs of text (although admittedly did link to a text file off site where the draft was being developed). And currently there are 2 proposals that have numbers allocated but are empty (BIP 40 and 41) with no references to the development or discussion. I appreciate the fact that acceptance of proposals on the BIP page are more strict, but it may be desirable to have the enforcement be more uniform. Also, BIP 38 is gaining more acceptance out in the community (many sites support the import of these keys and a growing number of paper wallet sites / coin / card vendors are offering it as an option), yet it's still missing from the BIP list, which seems to me a bit counter to the arguments given about community acceptance. No, that just means the authors of BIP 38 know community acceptance is the most important thing; BIP numbers are secondary. FWIW I think that BIP's should have been done as a github repository, allowing for dealing with this stuff transparently as a pull-request. It'd also be useful to handle BIP's that way to make it easy to archive them, update them, and keep a log of what and why they were updated. Just put them in markdown format, which is pretty much feature equivalent to the wiki now that markdown supports images. FWIW I myself haven't pushed hard for getting an official BIP number for my draft NODE_BLOOM BIP, even though I've got support from most of the dev team on the pull-request: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/2900 I'm probably at the point where I could get one assigned - Litecoin for instance has made that change - but really I just see that as a formality; that it's still a controversial idea is much more relevant. In any case I don't see any working code in your email, I'd suggest writing some. You're BIP would be much more likely to be accepted if you were more involved in wallet development. Good point. I'm developing my own client (which has the code up and running, with unit tests), but I'm not ready to release it just yet until I've got all the client's alpha features working. Would putting contact information there so people can ask for the relevant code be sufficient until I have my client up on github? No, just put the client up on github. If you think actually using it is dangerous, just delibrately make it hard to use for people who shouldn't be using it. Leave out compilation documentation for instance, or make it check that it's on testnet first and refuse to run if it isn't. Pond for instance doesn't make binaries available: https://pond.imperialviolet.org/ IIRC only recently have they provided a makefile. -- 'peter'[:-1]@petertodd.org 000b647feda1820ad95b2ea9efb742e9087b022bd3d37530dc06 signature.asc Description: Digital signature -- October Webinars: Code for Performance Free Intel webinars can help you accelerate application performance. Explore tips for MPI, OpenMP, advanced profiling, and more. Get the most from the latest Intel processors and coprocessors. See abstracts and register http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=60135031iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk___ Bitcoin-development mailing list Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
Re: [Bitcoin-development] A critique of bitcoin open source community
On Sun, Oct 20, 2013 at 06:43:16PM -0400, Peter Todd wrote: FWIW I think that BIP's should have been done as a github repository, allowing for dealing with this stuff transparently as a pull-request. It'd also be useful to handle BIP's that way to make it easy to archive them, update them, and keep a log of what and why they were updated. Just put them in markdown format, which is pretty much feature equivalent to the wiki now that markdown supports images. Figures, I'm told that's exactly how they were first done - https://github.com/genjix/bips - only people found it inconvenient and used the wiki instead. Pathetic IMO for standards, but it wouldn't exactly be the first time I've seen strong resistance to using revision control. (I quite literally work with rocket scientists/satellite engineers who can't be convinced to use it) I dunno, maybe something using git submodules or subtrees - letting the individual BIP owners make changes frequently until they're happy - might have more social acceptance. -- 'peter'[:-1]@petertodd.org 000aff52788645172e4acca1d9fc9387ebe4074d9ce275273b44 signature.asc Description: Digital signature -- October Webinars: Code for Performance Free Intel webinars can help you accelerate application performance. Explore tips for MPI, OpenMP, advanced profiling, and more. Get the most from the latest Intel processors and coprocessors. See abstracts and register http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=60135031iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk___ Bitcoin-development mailing list Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
[Bitcoin-development] A critique of bitcoin open source community
Hi! Interesting read: http://courses.ischool.berkeley.edu/i290m-ocpp/site/article/nmerrill-assign3.html Mitar -- http://mitar.tnode.com/ https://twitter.com/mitar_m -- October Webinars: Code for Performance Free Intel webinars can help you accelerate application performance. Explore tips for MPI, OpenMP, advanced profiling, and more. Get the most from the latest Intel processors and coprocessors. See abstracts and register http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=60135031iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Bitcoin-development mailing list Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
Re: [Bitcoin-development] A critique of bitcoin open source community
On 2013-10-19, at 1:40 PM, Gregory Maxwell gmaxw...@gmail.com wrote: I wasn't even allowed to edit the wiki I'm confused about this, if he's referring to en.bitcoin.it. Editing it is open to anyone who is willing to pay the 0.01 (https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/BitcoinPayment) anti-spam fee. This isn't a policy set by the bitcoin development community, though I'm not sure that its a terrible one. I've both paid it on behalf of other users and made edits on behalf of people who didn't want to go to it. At least relative to some policy which requires actual approval the payment antispam is at least open to anyone with Bitcoin. I have a question regarding this part. I wrote a BIP for base 58 encoding / encryption of BIP 32 root keys. The BIP page states that we shouldn't add to this list ourselves, but should contact you for a BIP number. I have contacted you a couple times on bitcointalk for a BIP number, but haven't received a response (or do those requests explicitly have to go to your email address)? Proposal in question: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=258678.0 Cheers, jp signature.asc Description: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail -- October Webinars: Code for Performance Free Intel webinars can help you accelerate application performance. Explore tips for MPI, OpenMP, advanced profiling, and more. Get the most from the latest Intel processors and coprocessors. See abstracts and register http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=60135031iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk___ Bitcoin-development mailing list Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
Re: [Bitcoin-development] A critique of bitcoin open source community
I was hoping to see something interesting and useful, but all I saw was absurd ranting. Example quote: It is not known where bitcoin contributors are based. Gavin Andersson, a major contributor, is a well-known South African anarchist/crypto-libertarian. Most contributors hide their identities. I don't know who this guy is or why anyone should care what he thinks, but I doubt any of us have time for someone who can't even be bothered spelling Gavin's name correctly, thinks he is South African or would describe him as an anarchist. Open source development can be intimidating and brutal at times, it's probably one factor that causes the massive gender skew. But many pages have been written on that topic, here is probably not the right place to thrash it out for the umpteenth time. -- October Webinars: Code for Performance Free Intel webinars can help you accelerate application performance. Explore tips for MPI, OpenMP, advanced profiling, and more. Get the most from the latest Intel processors and coprocessors. See abstracts and register http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=60135031iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk___ Bitcoin-development mailing list Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
Re: [Bitcoin-development] A critique of bitcoin open source community
On Saturday, October 19, 2013 9:16:24 PM Jean-Paul Kogelman wrote: I have a question regarding this part. I wrote a BIP for base 58 encoding / encryption of BIP 32 root keys. The BIP page states that we shouldn't add to this list ourselves, but should contact you for a BIP number. I have contacted you a couple times on bitcointalk for a BIP number, but haven't received a response (or do those requests explicitly have to go to your email address)? See BIP 1 for the process.. proposals go to this mailing list first. Luke -- October Webinars: Code for Performance Free Intel webinars can help you accelerate application performance. Explore tips for MPI, OpenMP, advanced profiling, and more. Get the most from the latest Intel processors and coprocessors. See abstracts and register http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=60135031iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Bitcoin-development mailing list Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
Re: [Bitcoin-development] A critique of bitcoin open source community
On Sat, Oct 19, 2013 at 3:29 PM, Luke-Jr l...@dashjr.org wrote: See BIP 1 for the process.. proposals go to this mailing list first. FWIW, he did post to the mailing list and he got an underwhelming response: http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?thread_name=20ec1e35-3051-45d6-b449-e4a4d5c06dc8%40me.comforum_name=bitcoin-development When I responded to him on BCT I said I was about to suggest you hit the mailing list for some initial comments first— but I see you've done that. I'll issue a number in a couple days once there has been a little chance for some discussion.. Since much discussion didn't materialize I went and gave it a technical once over, posting to the forum. In hindsight, I probably should have also posted my review to the mailing list, which might have served to restart some additional discussion. -- October Webinars: Code for Performance Free Intel webinars can help you accelerate application performance. Explore tips for MPI, OpenMP, advanced profiling, and more. Get the most from the latest Intel processors and coprocessors. See abstracts and register http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=60135031iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Bitcoin-development mailing list Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
Re: [Bitcoin-development] A critique of bitcoin open source community
I submitted the proposal to the mailing list on July 19, 2003. On 2013-10-19, at 3:29 PM, Luke-Jr l...@dashjr.org wrote: On Saturday, October 19, 2013 9:16:24 PM Jean-Paul Kogelman wrote: I have a question regarding this part. I wrote a BIP for base 58 encoding / encryption of BIP 32 root keys. The BIP page states that we shouldn't add to this list ourselves, but should contact you for a BIP number. I have contacted you a couple times on bitcointalk for a BIP number, but haven't received a response (or do those requests explicitly have to go to your email address)? See BIP 1 for the process.. proposals go to this mailing list first. Luke signature.asc Description: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail -- October Webinars: Code for Performance Free Intel webinars can help you accelerate application performance. Explore tips for MPI, OpenMP, advanced profiling, and more. Get the most from the latest Intel processors and coprocessors. See abstracts and register http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=60135031iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk___ Bitcoin-development mailing list Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
Re: [Bitcoin-development] A critique of bitcoin open source community
On 2013-10-19, at 4:21 PM, Jean-Paul Kogelman jeanpaulkogel...@me.com wrote: I submitted the proposal to the mailing list on July 19, 2003. That would be 2013. sorry. signature.asc Description: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail -- October Webinars: Code for Performance Free Intel webinars can help you accelerate application performance. Explore tips for MPI, OpenMP, advanced profiling, and more. Get the most from the latest Intel processors and coprocessors. See abstracts and register http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=60135031iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk___ Bitcoin-development mailing list Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
Re: [Bitcoin-development] A critique of bitcoin open source community
On 2013-10-19, at 4:20 PM, Gregory Maxwell gmaxw...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Oct 19, 2013 at 3:29 PM, Luke-Jr l...@dashjr.org wrote: See BIP 1 for the process.. proposals go to this mailing list first. FWIW, he did post to the mailing list and he got an underwhelming response: http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?thread_name=20ec1e35-3051-45d6-b449-e4a4d5c06dc8%40me.comforum_name=bitcoin-development Although I agree that the number of responses on the mailing list was minimal, they were overall positive. Mike voiced concerns about not having a date field to limit the rescan when importing, but other than that, most of the discussion was on bitcointalk. I've made a number of revisions, trying to incorporate the suggestions that were given. Obviously this doesn't mean that the draft is final (specifically the KDF's that can be used is still up for debate and having 29 undefined ID's means it's reasonably future proof). Having it on the BIP page doesn't make it any more official, I agree, but it does increase its exposure and will hopefully spark some more discussion. jp signature.asc Description: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail -- October Webinars: Code for Performance Free Intel webinars can help you accelerate application performance. Explore tips for MPI, OpenMP, advanced profiling, and more. Get the most from the latest Intel processors and coprocessors. See abstracts and register http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=60135031iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk___ Bitcoin-development mailing list Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
Re: [Bitcoin-development] A critique of bitcoin open source community
On Sat, Oct 19, 2013 at 04:35:13PM -0700, Jean-Paul Kogelman wrote: On Sat, Oct 19, 2013 at 3:29 PM, Luke-Jr l...@dashjr.org wrote: See BIP 1 for the process.. proposals go to this mailing list first. FWIW, he did post to the mailing list and he got an underwhelming response: http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?thread_name=20ec1e35-3051-45d6-b449-e4a4d5c06dc8%40me.comforum_name=bitcoin-development Although I agree that the number of responses on the mailing list was minimal, they were overall positive. Mike voiced concerns about not having a date field to limit the rescan when importing, but other than that, most of the discussion was on bitcointalk. I've made a number of revisions, trying to incorporate the suggestions that were given. Obviously this doesn't mean that the draft is final (specifically the KDF's that can be used is still up for debate and having 29 undefined ID's means it's reasonably future proof). Having it on the BIP page doesn't make it any more official, I agree, but it does increase its exposure and will hopefully spark some more discussion. Having it on the BIP page *does* make it more official, at least the way we've been using the BIP page, which is to filter out the proposals that haven't gotten much support at all. (or maybe are just controversial) FWIW I myself haven't pushed hard for getting an official BIP number for my draft NODE_BLOOM BIP, even though I've got support from most of the dev team on the pull-request: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/2900 I'm probably at the point where I could get one assigned - Litecoin for instance has made that change - but really I just see that as a formality; that it's still a controversial idea is much more relevant. In any case I don't see any working code in your email, I'd suggest writing some. You're BIP would be much more likely to be accepted if you were more involved in wallet development. -- 'peter'[:-1]@petertodd.org 000ad5e0cbc9438203b9cf2dcae776774f59575e38fcefa802ed signature.asc Description: Digital signature -- October Webinars: Code for Performance Free Intel webinars can help you accelerate application performance. Explore tips for MPI, OpenMP, advanced profiling, and more. Get the most from the latest Intel processors and coprocessors. See abstracts and register http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=60135031iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk___ Bitcoin-development mailing list Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
Re: [Bitcoin-development] A critique of bitcoin open source community
Having it on the BIP page doesn't make it any more official, I agree, but it does increase its exposure and will hopefully spark some more discussion. Having it on the BIP page *does* make it more official, at least the way we've been using the BIP page, which is to filter out the proposals that haven't gotten much support at all. (or maybe are just controversial) Interesting. The main reason I wrote my proposal was because the only proposal that came close to covering the same area was BIP 39, which at that time had 2 paragraphs of text (although admittedly did link to a text file off site where the draft was being developed). And currently there are 2 proposals that have numbers allocated but are empty (BIP 40 and 41) with no references to the development or discussion. I appreciate the fact that acceptance of proposals on the BIP page are more strict, but it may be desirable to have the enforcement be more uniform. Also, BIP 38 is gaining more acceptance out in the community (many sites support the import of these keys and a growing number of paper wallet sites / coin / card vendors are offering it as an option), yet it's still missing from the BIP list, which seems to me a bit counter to the arguments given about community acceptance. FWIW I myself haven't pushed hard for getting an official BIP number for my draft NODE_BLOOM BIP, even though I've got support from most of the dev team on the pull-request: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/2900 I'm probably at the point where I could get one assigned - Litecoin for instance has made that change - but really I just see that as a formality; that it's still a controversial idea is much more relevant. In any case I don't see any working code in your email, I'd suggest writing some. You're BIP would be much more likely to be accepted if you were more involved in wallet development. Good point. I'm developing my own client (which has the code up and running, with unit tests), but I'm not ready to release it just yet until I've got all the client's alpha features working. Would putting contact information there so people can ask for the relevant code be sufficient until I have my client up on github? jp signature.asc Description: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail -- October Webinars: Code for Performance Free Intel webinars can help you accelerate application performance. Explore tips for MPI, OpenMP, advanced profiling, and more. Get the most from the latest Intel processors and coprocessors. See abstracts and register http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=60135031iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk___ Bitcoin-development mailing list Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
