The BMW UUC Digest Volume 2 : Issue 640 : "text" Format Messages in this Issue: Re: Eurethane suspension bushings) Re: Eurethane suspension bushings) Re: Eurothane Suspension bushings Re: Eurothane Suspension bushings Re: Eurothane Suspension bushings Re: Eurothane Suspension bushings Re: Eurothane Suspension bushings Re: Eurothane Suspension bushings You might be a road racer if...
---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 2 May 2005 00:06:44 -0700 From: "RussC" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <bmwuucdigest@uucdigest.com> Subject: Re: Eurethane suspension bushings) Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> While I mostly agree with Bretts commentary, the E28 crowd likes using the poly bushings for the upper control arms. The stock bushings fail in no time if the car is used sportingly, and the 750 replacements are only a longer fix of ~50% more time. The consensus is the noise is minimal to "can't tell" and seem to hold up pretty well. RussC > Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2005 21:22:49 -0400 > From: "KMS- Brett Anderson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "UUC Digest" <bmwuucdigest@uucdigest.com> > Subject: Re: Eurethane suspension bushings > Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > An issue with "U"rethane bushings that everyone fails to take into account > is the degradation in spring rate. > > Replace your control arm bushings with urethane and leave stock > springs and > shocks in the car and you've just done the equivalent of putting softer > springs in your car. Yeah, there's an upgrade for ya. > > Urethane inserts in a stock bushing are a different thing entirely and > shouldn't be compared with the general inability of urethane to do the job > for which it's sold. > > If you have a street car, use rubber. If you have a race car, use metal. > > Brett Anderson > KMS > > > > -----Original Message----- > > I do think that there is different manufacturer of urethane > > bushings for the > > E34... this one might be just a bad one. > > I have a set that is working great on a 535i turbo (300+ RWHP) > > that is going > > often on the track and they are not behaving in the way shown in > > the movie. > > > > This is just a poor designed set. I personnaly was running 750i bushings > > with delrin inserts that made them close to imposible to move. > > So let's not just fire on all urethane products. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 02 May 2005 03:28:42 -0400 From: Rob Levinson * UUC Motorwerks <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: bmwuucdigest@uucdigest.com Subject: Re: Eurethane suspension bushings) Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> What a crowd likes is often contradictory to the actual reality of the situation. That the E28 crowd persists in using E32 750 bushings when E34 M5 bushings are superior is a case in point. Replacing the bushings only and looking at their durability is an exercise in blindness; the bushings themselves are only part of their own longevity in the E28... the condition of the center link, lower arms, and brake rotors are all contributing factors. In all reality, these components must be looked upon as a group to service simultaneously. One bad component in the group adversely affects all the others. The E34 and E32 are not much different. In terms of "holding up", urethane apparently wears in different ways than rubber. The stiffness prevents the fore-aft movement aspect of the multi-axis function of this bushing, which can mask the bigger problem of enlargement of the center mounting hole. One missing symptom that masks the development or worsening of another is not what I would call "holding up pretty well." Lots of good information is often ignored or hidden by "the consensus" of internet bandwagoneers. Let's not make that mistake with this particular piece of information from Brett. - Rob On May 2, 2005, at 3:06 AM, RussC wrote: > While I mostly agree with Bretts commentary, the E28 crowd likes using > the > poly bushings for the upper control arms. The stock bushings fail in > no > time if the car is used sportingly, and the 750 replacements are only a > longer fix of ~50% more time. The consensus is the noise is minimal to > "can't tell" and seem to hold up pretty well. > > RussC ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 May 2005 09:55:39 -0700 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: bmwuucdigest@uucdigest.com Subject: Re: Eurothane Suspension bushings Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> It doesn't appear that the bushing in the video has a metal inner support bushing. Is that true? If so that would explain the abnormal wear. -Kevin ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 May 2005 13:27:15 -0400 From: "KMS- Brett Anderson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "UUC Digest" <bmwuucdigest@uucdigest.com> Subject: Re: Eurothane Suspension bushings Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> The bushing does have an inner tube of steel. Brett Anderson KMS > -----Original Message----- > It doesn't appear that the bushing in the video has a metal inner support > bushing. Is that true? If so that would explain the abnormal wear. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 May 2005 11:22:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Ted Crum <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: KMS- Brett Anderson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: UUC Digest <bmwuucdigest@uucdigest.com>, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Eurothane Suspension bushings Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> For an elastic bushing to be stable, that is to never break contact with the two surfaces that it connects, one of two things must be true. Either there must be enough compressive preload so that even at full load there is still compression in the area that is elongated, or the bushing must be bonded to the working surfaces strongly enough to support tension without separating. The Metalastik bushing used all over our cars meets one or both. The smaller, cased bushings are bonded and compressed, small un-cased ones are installed with a press fit, and the large, voided bushings are bonded. The bushing that Brett presented probably meets neither criterion. The resulting bushing separation under working conditions results in wear that affects Urethane worse than rubber and which reduces bushing stiffeness due to the reduced amount of material which is actually carrying load. -tc -- Ted Crum [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Mon, 2 May 2005, KMS- Brett Anderson wrote: > The bushing does have an inner tube of steel. > > > Brett Anderson > KMS > > > > -----Original Message----- > > It doesn't appear that the bushing in the video has a metal inner support > > bushing. Is that true? If so that would explain the abnormal wear. > > > Search the ARCHIVES:http://www.mail-archive.com/bmwuucdigest@uucdigest.com > > > __________________________________________________________________________ > In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, founder of the BMW CCA. > > UUC Motorwerks - BMW Performance Fine-tuning and home of the Ultimate > Short Shifter - accept no substitutes! > 908-874-9092 . http://www.uucmotorwerks.com > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 02 May 2005 17:43:07 +0000 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "KMS- Brett Anderson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "UUC Digest" <bmwuucdigest@uucdigest.com> Subject: Re: Eurothane Suspension bushings Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> This bushing thread seems as much about quality of design and workmanship as it it about the materials. For some models, there are stock legal factory bushings available that carry the same stock part numbers but are made from much firmer rubber. Used them on E30's with great success. For swaybar bushings, I experienced red urethane ones grind themselves away, but found the black urethane ones sold by Metric Mechanic and others held up with no degradation over time. For front lower control arm bushings, E3x style, Delrin 'hockey puck' solid bushings lubed with a copper grease gave great steering response and also did not degrade over many street miles. Barry > -----Original Message----- > From: KMS- Brett Anderson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Monday, May 2, 2005 05:27 PM > To: 'UUC Digest' > Subject: Re: [UUC] Eurothane Suspension bushings > The bushing does have an inner tube of steel. Brett Anderson KMS ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 02 May 2005 20:49:08 +0000 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "Rob Levinson * UUC Motorwerks" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, bmwuucdigest@uucdigest.com Subject: Re: Eurothane Suspension bushings Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Rob, agreed. Barry > -----Original Message----- > From: Rob Levinson * UUC Motorwerks [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Monday, May 2, 2005 08:12 PM > To: bmwuucdigest@uucdigest.com > Subject: Re: [UUC] Eurothane Suspension bushings > Color has nothing to do with durometer. UUC makes various urethane parts, > using the same durometer urethane, but with different colors just to make > sorting of the stock easier - it's obvious what a part is by the color, > despite the shape being similar to another part. > Some manufacturers do use color to differentiate durometer, but only for > their own internal use. There's no hard-and-fast rule about a relationship > between durometer and color is the point. > - Rob > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Re: [UUC] Eurothane Suspension bushings > > > > For swaybar bushings, I experienced red urethane ones grind > themselves away, but found the black urethane ones sold by Metric Mechanic > and others held up with no degradation over time. > > Barry > > Search the ARCHIVES:http://www.mail-archive.com/bmwuucdigest@uucdigest.com > > > __________________________________________________________________________ > In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, founder of the BMW CCA. > > UUC Motorwerks - BMW Performance Fine-tuning and home of the Ultimate > Short Shifter - accept no substitutes! > 908-874-9092 . http://www.uucmotorwerks.com > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 May 2005 16:12:13 -0400 From: "Rob Levinson * UUC Motorwerks" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <bmwuucdigest@uucdigest.com> Subject: Re: Eurothane Suspension bushings Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Color has nothing to do with durometer. UUC makes various urethane parts, using the same durometer urethane, but with different colors just to make sorting of the stock easier - it's obvious what a part is by the color, despite the shape being similar to another part. Some manufacturers do use color to differentiate durometer, but only for their own internal use. There's no hard-and-fast rule about a relationship between durometer and color is the point. - Rob ----- Original Message ----- From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [UUC] Eurothane Suspension bushings > For swaybar bushings, I experienced red urethane ones grind themselves away, but found the black urethane ones sold by Metric Mechanic and others held up with no degradation over time. > Barry ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 May 2005 13:20:16 -0400 From: "Dennis Liu" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: You might be a road racer if... Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Howdy, all. Reminder: TracQuest has two days at the newly re-done WGI on May 16 and 17 (www.tracquest.com), if you're not already at WGI today and tomorrow with SCDA (www.scda1.com). Speaking of SCDA, Ian just let me know that he's added two ***unmuffled***, ***experienced drivers only***, days at Lime Rock on May 31 and June 28. North Country Region of the PCA is at NHIS for their great, traditional Memorial Day fest at NHIS. FCA has a lot of track time available at WGI on May 4-5, and Pocono on 5-29-31. Tremblant WEEK starting May 23rd with Rennsport region of PCA, followed immediately by PCA/NER. That's it for now. Enjoy the following! I can't believe how many I fall victim too, even though I'm not (yet) a *real* racer. Maybe I should print this up in a nice font and frame it.... vty, --Dennis You might be a road racer if... ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- You Know You Are A Road Racer When -You think the primary purpose of wings is to PREVENT flight. -You take your helmet along when you go to buy new eyeglasses or check out cars (seats). -You feel compelled on a road trip to beat your previous best time. -You are happiest when your street car's tires are worn to "racing depth". -When something falls off of your car, you wonder how much weight you just saved. -When you hear 'overcooked it', instead of food you think 'off the track'. -You change engine oil every other week. -You sometimes hear little noises from your passengers when you get on the throttle right after turning in. -You thoroughly enjoy showing the tailgater behind how to drive around a highway off-ramp. -Your racing budget is one of the big three - mortgage, car payments/maintenance, dating. -Your email address refers to your race car rather than to you. -You walk "proper lines" through the grocery store. -You've paid $4.00 a gallon for gas without complaining. -You buy new parts because you don't know where you put the spares. -You bought a race car before buying a house. -You bought a race car before buying furniture for the new house. -You're looking for a tow vehicle and still haven't bought furniture! -You find that you need a new house because you've outgrown your garage and the neighbors are threatening violence if you park one more vehicle on the street or in the front yard. -The requirements you give your real estate agent are (in order of importance): 1) 8-car climate controlled garage with an attached shop. 2) Outside parking for 6 cars, a motorhome, a crew cab dualie, a 28' enclosed trailer and a 34' 5th wheel. 3) 3 phase 220V outlets in the garage for your welder. 4) A grease pit. 5) Conveniently close to a hazardous waste disposal site. 6) Deaf neighbors. 7) Across the street from a paint and body shop. Cool Some sort of house with a working toilet and shower on the property somewhere or hookups for the motorhome. -You measure all family acquisitions in terms of the number of race tires that could have been purchased. -You know well that orthodontic work is the equivalent of three sets of tires. -You sit in your race car in a dark garage and make car noises and shift and practice your heel and toe, while waiting for your motor to get back from the machine shop. -You look at the purchase of tools as a long term investment. -Your wife says, "If you buy another set of tires, I'm getting a new mink." -Your garage holds more cars than your house has bedrooms. -You have enough spare parts to build another car. -More than one racer supply house recognizes your voice and greets you by name when you call. -You have car parts in your cubicle at work. -You think the last line of the Star Spangled Banner is: "Racers, start your engines!" -If you can't remember when you last worked on weekdays and rested on weekends. -You're registered for wedding gifts at Pegasus and Racer Wholesale. -Your Christmas list begins with "another set of Toyo RA1's" and aluminum rods (and your 'significant other' knows what these are). -After your answer to "What did you do this weekend?" the next question is always: "And you do this for fun? Right?" -You have a separate drawer for 'garage clothes'. -Your reading material in your bathroom consists of auto parts and racing supply catalogs, several books written by famous drivers, every book Carroll Smith has ever written and 400 car magazines, none of which have centerfolds. -People know you by your class letter, car number, and car color. -People know you by your "off"s". "Oh, you're the one stuck in the mud at ButtonBog last weekend!" -Your first date involves asking her to crew for you. -Your criteria for selecting a significant other include auto repair skills. Air tools optional. -Your friends don't recognize you without a helmet and driver's suit. -Your family remembers your hair color as "grease". -You plan your wedding around the race schedule. -You astound the clerk at Sears by bringing in a snapped breaker bar every other week or so. -You remember the dates and details of every race you've ever been in, but can't remember your phone number. -Your family brings the couch into the garage so they can spend some time with you. -You complain when cars in front of you on highway off-ramps don't stay on the line, causing your exit speed to drop. -A neighbor asks if you have any oil, to which you query, "Synthetic or organic?" and they reply, "Vegetable or corn." -You give out Automotive Engineering's number when a friend asks for the best hardware store. -You refer to the corner down the street from your house as "Turn One." -You look at the fire hydrant at that corner and see an apex marker. -You enjoy driving in the rain on the way to work or school. -You always late apex the intersection and try to pass a few cars coming out. -Everywhere you go, you try to find the fastest line through the turn. -You always do a toe & heel downshift while your passenger gives you a real funny look. -You can't stand anyone telling others how to drive. Of course, you are the best. -You can't stand understeer. -You always want to change something in your street car to make it handle better. -You will gladly pay up to $8 for a quart of engine oil. -You hate long distance drives to visit relatives of to go on vacation, but you will gladly drive 800 miles to the race track. -You think that traction control and ABS are for those who can't drive. -You've ever tried to convince your wife you needed that flow bench to fix the air filter on her van. -You save broken car parts as "mementos". -Your last several freeway forays included just brushing the curbs as you apexed the on-ramps perfectly. -You've found your lawn mower runs pretty good on 108 octane gas (but doesn't care for alcohol). -The local tire shop won't honor the tread life warranty on any car you have been within 50 yards of. -The shop manager at your local car dealer mutters "dear Lord" under his breath after he sees the size of your exhaust system. -The local police and state Highway Patrol have a picture of your car taped to their dashboard. -You spend more time polishing your exhaust tips every day than you do bathing. -Instead of pictures in your wallet, you have qualifying times. -You would choose a roll bar over air conditioning if it were an option. -You enjoy driving through wet, empty parking lots and using the emergency brake to kick the back end out. -White smoke coming out from under your tires is a common sight. -You consider the redline a "conservative suggestion" and the rev limiter "a fun limiter." -You spend more on insurance premiums than on food. -Your idea of a good time is sitting around figuring out gear ratios and the ideal final drive ratio for given situations. -When someone refers to "The Good Book", you think of "Prepared to Win." -When someone asks where you went to school, you reply, "Skip Barber". -You have racing shops programmed on your speed dialer. -You own five cars and only one of them is street legal. -You know the 1/4 mile times and skid pad numbers of your riding mower and want to improve them. -You've embarrassed your significant other at least once by insisting on wearing your full face helmet while driving. -You know the "racing line" of every turn in your daily commute, including your alternate routes, and practice hitting them every day. -You quote your street tire wear life in weeks rather than miles. -You regularly live test your rev limiter on that straight that's a little too long for 2nd but not worth going into 3rd for. -You've started looking for sponsors for your daily commute. -You've slalomed in a construction zone, and counted your penalty time in the rearview afterwards. -After you tell your wife where you'd like to go on your vacation she answers: "Why... is there a race there?" -A cop pulls you over and ask for your license and registration so you give him you SCCA license, SM logbook, and the tech card from your last race. -The only reason you clean out your street car is so that you dont have weight transfering around the car when you make a hard corner. -You are about to buy a new street car and the salesman asks if you want in automatic or manual, to which you respond "they still make automatic transmissions? I thought those were illegal" -You only wash your car is to lessen the aerodynamic drag that dirt causes. -when you compare the cost of something to the number of tires you could have bought, you know the exact decimals of each dollar amount. i.e. a $215 mattress is equal to 1.3023... tires ($140 tires) -You wrote a complain letter to Sears when you found out that they no longer offer wedding registery -You know your wife's a racer when she's called you on her cell phone from her car, and interrupts the conversation to tell you that a really clean "donor" just pulled up to the light beside her, she think it's a '91. ------------------------------ End of [bmwuucdigest] digest(9 messages) **********
