The BMW UUC Digest
Volume 4 : Issue 93 : "text" Format
Messages in this Issue:
<OT> Wonderful digest
Re: <M52> consequences of failing cat
Re: e46 DIY coolant change - hard to do right?
Re: e46 DIY coolant change - hard to do right?
Re: e46 DIY coolant change - hard to do right?
Re: e46 DIY coolant change - hard to do right?
<OT> 911 Fuel Pump
Re: troubleshoot
Re: troubleshoot
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 7 May 2008 19:58:34 -0700
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: bmwuucdigest@uucdigest.com
Subject: <OT> Wonderful digest
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
This last digest was great.....informative and dialogy (not a std OED word,
but what the hey).
All that was missing was input from Gary Derian.
thanks guys.
-Kevin
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 12:16:06 -0400 (EDT)
From: Chet Dawes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: KMS - Brett Anderson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
"Kevin Jay (Mr.Fabulous)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
UUC <bmwuucdigest@uucdigest.com>
Subject: Re: <M52> consequences of failing cat
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Brett,
"It has no effect on how the vehicle runs. The DME uses it purely to monitor
the cat condition."
Are you sure about that? :)
I'll certainly refer to your experience on BMW specific engine management, but
all other marques I'm familar with have been using the rear O2 sensor as a
long-term fuel trim feedback device since the onset of OBDII. Now, it has
pretty limited authority (usually only allows ~5% air/fuel trim before it is
maxed out and ultimately sets the diagnostic code) in those cases.
Also, it is worth noting that the CODE setting itself has 'no action taken' in
the engine management system, but the rear O2 sensor may very well have some
authority over air/fuel ratio.
The post-cat O2 sensor was made necessary due to OBDII requirements for
catalyst aging (condition monitoring) diagnostics, but it has been used for
other purposes too.
Again, I'm not 100% intimately familar with BMW's engine management systems and
I'll refer to Brett and others for that part. But it would surprise me if BMW
didn't read the post-cat O2 for other purposes.
Cheers,
Chet Dawes
('retired' engine calibration engineer, now I only play one on TV)
-----Original Message-----
>From: KMS - Brett Anderson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Sent: May 7, 2008 3:01 PM
>To: "Kevin Jay (Mr.Fabulous)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, UUC
><bmwuucdigest@uucdigest.com>
>Subject: Re: [UUC] <M52> consequences of failing cat
>
>On an E36, the post cat O2 sensor does nothing.
>
>It has no effect on how the vehicle runs. The DME uses it purely to
>monitor the cat condition.
>
>Later cars are a different story.
>
>Brett Anderson
>KMS
>
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 14:30:47 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Kevin Jay (Mr.Fabulous)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: bmwuucdigest@uucdigest.com
Subject: Re: e46 DIY coolant change - hard to do right?
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Agree, the job is not difficult.
But let's talk about that block drain. I did this myself a few times when my
E36 was newer to me, but I've not bothered with it the last five or six years.
Does doing this really seem necessary? OK, leave it in and you retain a
block's worth of stale coolant. But does that really matter if the rest is
changed out? Is it worth the trouble and mess? I don't know.....
- k
--- original message ---
From: Kazuto Okayasu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: e46 DIY coolant change - hard to do right?
aaron b wrote:
> I'm making my way through changing all the fluids on
> my e46, and the one which I'm most apprehensive of
> doing on this car is the coolant.
>
[...]
>
> I guess I'm just a bit concerned after hearing of so
> many people having bad results - anyone who's done
> this, mind giving your opinion please?
>
Well, I've bled the coolant 3 times now. Once from actually changing
it, once when I replaced the water pump (noisy but not quite dead), and
most recently when the expansion tank broke. I've heard some claim the
system is 'self bleeding,' which isn't quite true, but I've had zero
problems.
[...snip]
IMO the hardest part about the job is getting the damn block plug off.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 08 May 2008 16:13:17 -0400
From: Vic Maslanka <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Kevin Jay (Mr.Fabulous)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
bmwuucdigest@uucdigest.com
Subject: Re: e46 DIY coolant change - hard to do right?
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
If you're going to do the job, then you might as well do it
right. It's not that much more time or mess to open the block
drain. If you don't open the drain, it's like changing most of your
oil, or some of your spark plugs.
Someone (on this list?) suggested buying a cheap kiddie swimming pool
and placing it under the car. Sounds like a good way to avoid a
mess. I'd buy one, but I couldn't find a pool with a UUC logo. :-)
Vic
At 03:30 PM 5/8/2008, Mr. Fabulous wrote:
>Agree, the job is not difficult.
>
>But let's talk about that block drain. I did this myself a few times when my
>E36 was newer to me, but I've not bothered with it the last five or
>six years.
>Does doing this really seem necessary? OK, leave it in and you retain a
>block's worth of stale coolant. But does that really matter if the rest is
>changed out? Is it worth the trouble and mess? I don't know.....
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 21:11:54 -0400
From: "marshall lytle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "'Vic Maslanka'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <bmwuucdigest@uucdigest.com>
Subject: Re: e46 DIY coolant change - hard to do right?
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
That would have been me...;-)
I can't believe none of the speed shops have come out with a logo kiddie
pool made of carbon fiber yet!
'tis the summer season...toy stores and homer depot have their summer pools
in stock....
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Vic Maslanka
Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2008 4:13 PM
To: Kevin Jay (Mr.Fabulous); bmwuucdigest@uucdigest.com
Subject: Re: [UUC] e46 DIY coolant change - hard to do right?
If you're going to do the job, then you might as well do it right. It's not
that much more time or mess to open the block drain. If you don't open the
drain, it's like changing most of your oil, or some of your spark plugs.
Someone (on this list?) suggested buying a cheap kiddie swimming pool and
placing it under the car. Sounds like a good way to avoid a mess. I'd buy
one, but I couldn't find a pool with a UUC logo. :-)
Vic
At 03:30 PM 5/8/2008, Mr. Fabulous wrote:
>Agree, the job is not difficult.
>
>But let's talk about that block drain. I did this myself a few times
>when my
>E36 was newer to me, but I've not bothered with it the last five or six
>years.
>Does doing this really seem necessary? OK, leave it in and you retain
>a block's worth of stale coolant. But does that really matter if the
>rest is changed out? Is it worth the trouble and mess? I don't know.....
Search the ARCHIVES:http://www.mail-archive.com/bmwuucdigest@uucdigest.com
__________________________________________________________________________
In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, founder of the BMW CCA.
UUC Motorwerks - BMW Performance Fine-tuning and home of the Ultimate Short
Shifter - accept no substitutes!
908-874-9092 . http://www.uucmotorwerks.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 08 May 2008 15:21:15 -0700
From: Kazuto Okayasu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: bmwuucdigest@uucdigest.com
Subject: Re: e46 DIY coolant change - hard to do right?
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Both my M54 and S38 drain far more volume out of the block than the
radiator (the S38's radiator doesn't even have a drain plug) so only
draining the expansion tank/radiator doesn't fully count as a coolant
change.
Kevin Jay (Mr.Fabulous) wrote:
> Agree, the job is not difficult.
>
> But let's talk about that block drain. I did this myself a few times when my
> E36 was newer to me, but I've not bothered with it the last five or six
> years.
> Does doing this really seem necessary? OK, leave it in and you retain a
> block's worth of stale coolant. But does that really matter if the rest is
> changed out? Is it worth the trouble and mess? I don't know.....
>
> - k
>
> --- original message ---
>
> From: Kazuto Okayasu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: e46 DIY coolant change - hard to do right?
>
> aaron b wrote:
>
>> I'm making my way through changing all the fluids on
>> my e46, and the one which I'm most apprehensive of
>> doing on this car is the coolant.
>>
>>
> [...]
>
>> I guess I'm just a bit concerned after hearing of so
>> many people having bad results - anyone who's done
>> this, mind giving your opinion please?
>>
>>
> Well, I've bled the coolant 3 times now. Once from actually changing
> it, once when I replaced the water pump (noisy but not quite dead), and
> most recently when the expansion tank broke. I've heard some claim the
> system is 'self bleeding,' which isn't quite true, but I've had zero
> problems.
>
> [...snip]
>
> IMO the hardest part about the job is getting the damn block plug off.
> Search the ARCHIVES:http://www.mail-archive.com/bmwuucdigest@uucdigest.com
>
>
> __________________________________________________________________________
> In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, founder of the BMW CCA.
>
> UUC Motorwerks - BMW Performance Fine-tuning and home of the Ultimate
> Short Shifter - accept no substitutes!
> 908-874-9092 . http://www.uucmotorwerks.com
>
--
Kazuto Okayasu Manager, Desktop Support Services
Administrative Computing Services, University of California, Irvine
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 15:46:00 -0700
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: bmwuucdigest@uucdigest.com
Subject: <OT> 911 Fuel Pump
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
The old girl just won't start and I think it's the fuel pump or integrated
check valve on the pump. Carter offers a new pump for half the price of the
Bosch. Anyone know if Carter has a good reputation for reliability and
quality?
The old girl is my '78 911SC that I'm trying to get ready for sale.
-Kevin
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TSMC PROPERTY
This email communication (and any attachments) is proprietary information
for the sole use of its
intended recipient. Any unauthorized review, use or distribution by anyone
other than the intended
recipient is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient,
please notify the sender by
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 18:46:43 -0400
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: bmwuucdigest@uucdigest.com
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: troubleshoot
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Hello, All --
Wanted --keen insights from major domo, brilliant troubleshooting superstars!
Whew -- that should have gotten everyoneâs attention. If so, let me continue.
2001 325i 5 speed sedan, 118,000 miles - never garaged (Iâll change that last
if I ever post that Iâm selling it) JUST KIDDING -- New England climate --
perhaps two or three times a year for the past several years, I have
encountered the following when attempting to start in the MORNING -- (seems it
might tend to be after car has sat idle for a few days, but canât swear to
that) -- could be winter, might be spring or fall (perhaps when weather is
âdampâ but again, canât be sure that is always the case).
I attempt to start the car and I get rapid turn-over -- probably quicker than
usual --but no HINT of ignition -- not a sputter -- I am not pumping
accelerator pedal during this -- havenât even touched it. I will crank
(furiously) probably total of more than a minute -- but absolutely no sounds of
encouragement -- I wait -- perhaps 10 or so minutes, return to try it again --
NOW I get an attempt at ignition - - the occasional sputter -- then more
frequent -- finally, kind of continuous sputter (but not ignition). I would
describe it as akin to dieseling at this point -- then, finally -- patience
rewarded - I have ignition. Car is immediately fine -- no misfire, typical
cold engine performance -- I have NO repeat of this incident -- until, months
later, when I am similarly rewarded -- identical scenario --
I offer the following not because I think it is probably relevant trouble
shooting, but because it might help to characterize the symptoms more
completely.
The complete absence of initial firing along with faster than normal turnover
might almost make me think (knowing nothing) that initially, no juice is
getting to the coil -- hence more current is available to to turn engine over
(faster). Or, ignoring those symptoms for a moment, it might seem like a
vacuum leak or some other complete failure to deliver fuel until, after
cranking it for a couple of minutes, finally the fuel IS delivered.
Probably completely unrelated, but my mechanical experiences go back to
2002âs and Bavarias -- all before computer assisted or controlled engine
modules, so itâs all a mystery to me now once I am done checking my tire
pressure -- looking under the hood nowdays does not invite the same kind of
tap-tap here, listen there, play with the carb linkage a bit -- shazaam -- we
have ignition of the âdays of yore.â But I digress -- Probably completely
unrelated, I have xenon headlights, and once in a while (months apart) my
display will tell me the LEFT Xenon is out -- until, either a few minutes or up
to an hour later, it comes back on and is fine for months. Also, at times
different from the Xenon incidents, dash display will report no tail lights --
but theyâre not out-- some minutes later, the tail light problem display goes
back out, and everything is fine. I mention the xenon & tailight incidents
here only because they are of a similar nature --seldom, random -- o!
ccurrence as the ignition problem.
Perhaps, poltergeists?? Call Ghost Busters??
Thanks for any replies, insightful or otherwise. Aside from this (exceedingly
small, occasional) aggravation it is a car I find difficult to drive without
exhibiting a huge, constant smile of glee -- what a gas --(oops -- word
choice). Regards, Michael Austin, North Granby, CT
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 08 May 2008 22:24:07 -0400
From: KMS - Brett Anderson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], UUC <bmwuucdigest@uucdigest.com>
Subject: Re: troubleshoot
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
What is the scenario when the car is parked, prior to this happening?
Could it be "car wash syndrome". The most obvious way to explain this,
and the reason it has this name, is; you back the car out of the garage
to wash it. Shut it off, wash it, pull it right back into the garage.
Next morning, try to go to work, car won't start. It's flooded out.
It would fit your symptom of fast cranking, which would require lowered
compression. If the cylinder is flooded, it washes the oil from the
cylinder wall, causing the rings to lose their seal and the cylinder to
lose compression.
Brett Anderson
KMS
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Hello, All -- Wanted --keen insights from major domo, brilliant
> troubleshooting superstars! Whew -- that should have gotten
> everyoneâs attention. If so, let me continue. 2001 325i 5 speed
> sedan, 118,000 miles - never garaged (Iâll change that last if I
> ever post that Iâm selling it) JUST KIDDING -- New England
> climate -- perhaps two or three times a year for the past several
> years, I have encountered the following wheen attempting to start in
> the MORNING -- (seems it might tend to be after car has sat idle for
> a few days, but canât swear to that)
------------------------------
End of [bmwuucdigest] digest(9 messages)
**********
