Re: Why President Bush Invaded Iraq Re: More Propaganda Subject Lines from The Fool
John wrote: At any rate, the 2% doesn't count?The attempt to create the first Arab democracy doesn't count - just because the case is so simple? It was not a significant component of Bush's attempt to get the people of this country behind the invasion. Come again? What were thousands of our troops doing stationed in Saudi Arabia if Iraq did not threaten our security? Providing Saudi security and protecting our vested interests. At any rate, you are offering a lot of 20/20 hindsight here. I guess that you are right that Bush should *not* have believed our intelligence services, which were telling us that Saddam Hussein was hiding massive biological, chemical, and possibly nuclear weapons programs - if only becaue our intelligence services had already been proven disastrously wrong in pre-war Iraq, India, Pakistan, and the DPRK over the previous ten years. indeed, they are almost a contrarian indicator at this point. But the evidence is that the Bush administration stretched intelligence that supported their claim that Hussein was a threat and ignored evidence to the contrary in order to make a case for war. An example of this is the African Uranium claim which is again in the news as the administrations Foreign Intelligence Advisory Board has found that the White House was so anxious to grab onto something affirmative about Hussein's nuclear ambitions that it disregarded warnings from the intelligence community that the claim was questionable. (http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A25935-2003Dec23) These are his own guys making the report. We can only imagine what a neutral commission might find. Nevertheless, unless you are arguing that Bush should have used US intelligence as a contrarian indicator - No, I'm arguing that he cherry picked intelligence to mislead the public into supporting his administrations desire to invade Iraq. I think that, given time and a unbiased examination of the intelligence would have revealed Iraq's impotence. Secondly, I also think that you are not thinking sufficiently long-term. The Bush Administration did not hide their belief that they intended to use a liberated Iraq as a catalyst for a democratic reshaping of the Middle East. Did invading Iraq inspire some jihaids over the past two years? Quite possibly.But 20 years from now will the US benefit from no longer having troops in the Muslim Holy Land and from having Iraq liberated from Saddam Hussein's oppression?I certainly think so. At the very least, I would hope that you could see that reasonable people could disagree on this point, and that the Bush Administration reasonably believed that this would benefit Iraq - and that this justified a war. In another thread you mention that Bush doesn't have the foresight to realize that invading a nation requires rebuilding said nation afterwards, but here you have him projecting the effect of the war on complex middle east politics a generation from now? Give me a break, John. I also think that you are also assuming that the jihadis think like you do. The jihadis care little for the concept of sovereignty that you cited in your hundredfold reason.I do think, however, that 10 years from now when there are no US troops in Saudi Arabia and little US presence in Iraq, that the jihdi rage against us will certain fall below the levels that recruited the 9/11 terrorists. Well you can speculate all you want. So can I. I think that the invasion has solidified the movements of our ideological opponents, increased the ranks of those that would willingly take up arms against us, and has, by fracturing the international solidarity created by the 9/11 attacks, significantly weakened our ability to combat them. Plain and simple, the Bush Administation made it clear that they wanted to remove Saddam Hussein for two key reasons: 1) It would make the world a better place for numerous reasons and 2) They could not be sure of how he would dispose of his weapons and weapons knowledge, especially since it was obvious he was trying to hide something from UN inspectors. No. The Bush administration, playing on the fears that 9/11 generated, made it clear that there _would_ be NBC attacks very soon if we didn't take Hussein out. That is how they sold the war. -- Doug ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: EPA Works Out Secret Deal with Factory Farms
At 10:00 PM 1/13/2004, you wrote: kneem posted EPA Works Out Secret Deal with Factory Farms Perhaps taking its cue from the Cheney Energy Task Force, the EPA has been holding secret meetings with the agribusiness industry this year, putting together a sweetheart deal with lobbyists to exempt factory farms from Clean Air Act and Superfund regulations I don't know much about secret meetings, etc, but there has been a moratorium on hog farming in NC for several years due to some of this type of stuff. (Lots of hogs 'round here) There has been concerns about hog lagoons, etc. I know that NC State has been doing joint research with the hog farms to try and clean things up. There has been a 4-5 year goal on the project. I am not sure if it is related, but I heard there has been some promising research that Ash (IIRC) trees are a natural filter (for lack of a better word) when planted in proximity to lagoons, processing the nitrates in groves of trees. With all the different things they were trying I think there could be lots of options outside of just plain old deal making. Dee Wasn't the problem in NC highlighted when there were floods down there a few years ago? Lots of the lagoons were overflowed, some washed away completely, spreading waste down stream. I know a few cases locally where the feds gave plans, money and contracted the jobs to build holding pools and they failed within years from poor design and construction. Kevin T. - VRWC Everyone wants their babe and eat him too ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Double Standards on Regional Bigotry
Alberto Monteiro wrote: The Fool wrote: Bullshit. The Republican party is _built_ on confederate loving, racist, bigoted, bible thumping fundamentalists in the south. Republicans couldn't win without the bigot vote. Republicans like Rush, and Buchanan, routinely pander to bigoted southerners. How interesting. We learned here in Brazil that the Republican Party was Lincoln's Party, and that Lincoln made war against the South Separatists. Which one of these two statements is wrong? Alberto Monteiro It was originally built as the anti-slavery party, but over the last 40 years or so, they've replaced all of the support timbers in the building frame with new ones that make the whole structure lean towards such fundamentalist people. -- Matt ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Movie News
Miller, Jeffrey wrote: snip I see you've conveniently wiped your memory of such high points of SciFi originals. Allow me to remind you of Scare Tactics and Riverworld.. --- I don't know about scare tactics, but Riverworld, while not great, was better than I expected. George A ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Movie News
From: G. D. Akin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] I don't know about scare tactics, but Riverworld, while not great, was better than I expected. Wow. Your expectations must have been VERY low. It was so bad I couldn't watch more than 20 minutes of it. Then again, I am a big, big, BIG fan of the books and I couldn't see much resemblance... grin - jmh ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Shrub's Conspiracy to Invade Iraq Revealed by Ex-Admin Official
Tom Beck wrote: Saddam Hussein is a monster, and I'm glad he's gone, but there are monsters in China and Syria and North Korea and Cuba and Libya - why don't we go after them? First, these monsters have different hid dice: Saddam might be the worst of them _by far_. [some of them are quite new in the monster business, like Hafez Assad's heir, whose name I can't remember] Second, these monsters have friends, and if the USA wants to take them down, probably it would have to take the allies down too. Or maybe taking them down would _turn_ their allies into new monsters. Alberto Monteiro ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Shrub's Conspiracy to Invade Iraq Revealed by Ex-Admin Official
William T Goodall wrote: I thought Lucifer was part of the Christian pantheon anyway, so they all worship Lucifer. That and the blood-drinking and the human sacrifice... serious No, it's not. Lucifer means something like carrier of light, and it came from the Latin translation of the Septuaginta, that had Phosphoros, which was the (wrong) translation of Venus-qua-morning-star, which was part of a text that was _condemning_ astrology Religion is EVIL. Just say no :) You must recognize that it was not Evil in that case: Religion is better than Astrology. Believing that there is a God that wants you to behave properly is better than believing that the configuration of the planets justifies all your actions. /serious Alberto Monteiro ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: EPA Works Out Secret Deal with Factory Farms
Kevin wrote- Wasn't the problem in NC highlighted when there were floods down there a few years ago? Lots of the lagoons were overflowed, some washed away completely, spreading waste down stream. I know a few cases locally where the feds gave plans, money and contracted the jobs to build holding pools and they failed within years from poor design and construction. Most of the concerns were in the eastern part of the state and I recall flooding was part of it, along with some general lagoon seepage. The level of growth was pretty high and the lagoons were being overburdened by demand. The waste took/takes so long to process that they were having difficulty finding new sites that could be improved. It might have had something to do with the general lowness of the grounds as well, rarely do you find a basement in eastern NC. This isn't an area I recall well, but I think the lagoons had to be a certain distance from a water supply, but they did overflow. I don't remember a lot of talk of construction failure, but I there wasn't much on the news about how they were supposed to be built. One thing that amazes me about NC is that we don't have a lot of gentle rain in the summer, we have what they affectionately call gutter cleaners/gutter washers for how quick and fast the rain can come down (but I would have assumed this was taken into consideration with the planning). Dee ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Danger of US military overextension
On 13 Jan 2004, G. D. Akin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote Not sure who or where this guy is, but the Army War College is NOT as Maxwell Air Force Base, Alabama. The Air War College is. Absolutely right. The reporter is from the Sydney Morning Herald, Australia, and he was wrong. The BBC did better. Also, the BBC (or perhaps some other source) said the Jeffrey Record is a visiting professor at the US Army War College, not a permanent member of the faculty. Nonetheless, the story does dramatically raise the question of whether the US military is currently over-extending itself, whether it should have mobilized, whether that would have done any good, or whether some other strategy would have been better, and if so what strategy? -- Robert J. Chassell Rattlesnake Enterprises http://www.rattlesnake.com GnuPG Key ID: 004B4AC8 http://www.teak.cc [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Danger of US military overextension
Some are arguing that currently the US is strategically over-extended. One action being debated is whether the US invasion of Iraq and the subsequent occupation was a good strategic move for the US or a bad move? My sense is that the Bush administration adopted the world view of US Liberals and Democrats, who said that past US policy has been wrong and has back-fired against the US, and chose strategy accordingly. Was this world view correct? Was the adopted strategy correct? Here is what I wrote nearly a year ago: [2003 Feb 17] ... consider the Bush administration. It entered power with a strong belief in the values of discipline and deterrence. The members of the administration figured that if you discipline wrong-doers by punishing them, for example, by executing them, then others will avoid wrong-doing so as to avoid the punishment. The attacks on the World Trade Center in New York and the Pentagon in Washington, DC, on September 11 presented the Bush administration with what Ian Banks, in his novel `Excession', calls an `out of context problem': the Bush administration had to realize that it could not deter future attacks by punishing the wrong-doers; it could not execute them because they were already dead. The Bush administration belief system failed. Hence, the Bush administration had to adopt a new belief system. Of course, the Bush administration [tried to] keep many of its old beliefs by claiming that the hijackers were in a special category: not ordinary wrong-doers, but `evil'. However, the members of the administration still had to explain the cause of evil. From the point of view of a day-to-day oriented administration, it does no good (except in speeches) to say that evil is caused by a `wrathful God'. God is not susceptible to political analysis. Instead, what I think happened is that the senior members of the Bush administration decided that their opponents, US Liberals and Democrats, had been right all along. * The Liberals and Democrats in the US say that the depth of despair and hatred against the US in the Moslem world is high. As a consequence, some people will fight the US and be willing to die in the process. Those willing to fight will be a small portion of the population, but large in absolute numbers. Moreover, Liberals and Democrats they say that to improve matters peacefully will take a generation or more of wise foreign aid, including changes in Moslem school systems, and tolerant statements by Moslem government and religious leaders. * Suppose the Liberals and Democrats are correct? The Bush administration must be concerned both with the distant future and with the immediate future. Since the Liberals and Democrats say that peaceful improvements will take time, the Bush administration will need to figure out alternative actions that are quicker. If it does not, it loses support from frightened donors and voters. Hence, as a beginning, the covert and overt military actions against any in the Moslem world who have or who might attack the US or US interests. Then I went on to say that the Bush Administration decided on a response that fits this Liberal/Democratic/Leftist world view: [2003 Feb 17] 4. Overthrow the government of and establish a major US presence in an Arab country so as to frighten the other Arab dictatorships into greater efforts into policing against enemies of US. I think this is the primary motivation of the US government. As side effects, a successful US invasion of Iraq will also: * Enable the US to find and destroy chemical, biological, and nuclear weapons that might be used to threaten the US or US allies or US interests -- in other words, satisfy argument three. * Reduce the power of Europe and the Russia by establishing a Middle Eastern hegemony. * Maintain oil supplies from Middle East until new central Asian and west African supplies become available. * Extend the economic dominance of the dollar over the euro for a few more years, by ensuring that oil is priced in dollars. I am sure the Bush administration favors all these side effects. [Note that the Bush Administration did not use this argument to persuade the American public to back the US invasion of Iraq, although I thought then and still think this is the primary motivation. Consequently, when arguing whether the Bush Administration was honest, employed good statecraft, or was politically correct in its methods, this must be seen as an argument not made. This is a separate issue from whether this argument provides an accurate description
Re: Shrub's Conspiracy to Invade Iraq Revealed by Ex-Admin Official
--- Alberto Monteiro [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Tom Beck wrote: Saddam Hussein is a monster, and I'm glad he's gone, but there are monsters in China and Syria and North Korea and Cuba and Libya - why don't we go after them? First, these monsters have different hid dice: Saddam might be the worst of them _by far_. [some of them are quite new in the monster business, like Hafez Assad's heir, whose name I can't remember] Second, these monsters have friends, and if the USA wants to take them down, probably it would have to take the allies down too. Or maybe taking them down would _turn_ their allies into new monsters. Alberto Monteiro Plus, the argument that we're not doing the right thing everywhere, therefore we must do the right thing _nowhere_ is not terribly persuasive... = Gautam Mukunda [EMAIL PROTECTED] Freedom is not free http://www.mukunda.blogspot.com __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the Signing Bonus Sweepstakes http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: The GOP Problem With Women
The Fool wrote: The GOP Problem With Women http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A5050-2004Jan9?language=printer By Richard Morin Sunday, January 11, 2004; Page B05 Men and women may have achieved equality in many areas of American life, but they sure aren't treated the same by Republican primary voters. At least that's the finding of political scientists David C. King of Harvard University and Richard E. Matland of the University of Houston, who found that female candidates don't seem to do as well as similarly qualified men in GOP primaries. On the other hand, the researchers found, political independents and Democrats seem to prefer Republican women running for office over GOP guys. Let me see if I understand. Conservatives, who by definition favor traditional ways of doing things, tend to vote along the lines of the status quo, preserving male domination of political power. And this is news? Who else is going to be conservative, if not the conservatives? Nick -- Nick Arnett Phone/fax: (408) 904-7198 [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: how CAPPS II works
The Fool wrote: Chart: http://www.dontspyonus.com/chart.html ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l I didn't realize that Cendant, of all companies, is operating the system that gathers, keeps and apparently has the right to (mis)use the information about who flies where. That company still owes me money from their massive rip-off of consumers and financial misrepresentations. In my case, I foolishly signed up for AutoVantage, which they operated, discovered it was worthless and cancelled my membership, but they kept billing my credit card for three or four years, even though each year I called to demand that they reverse the charges, which they never did, even though they promised to. They did that to many, many other people, too, stealing millions. And now our department of Homeland Security entrusts them to keep records about me! Sheesh. Nick -- Nick Arnett Phone/fax: (408) 904-7198 [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Double Standards on Regional Bigotry
- Original Message - From: John D. Giorgis [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2004 8:16 PM Subject: Re: Double Standards on Regional Bigotry The South of the United States no longer casts votes on racial issues, but does cast votes on religious/cultural conservatism issues. This has led to the once Democratic Solid South becoming the Republican Solid South. And this happened instantaneously in 1964? Outside of Arizona, the only states that Goldwater won were in the previously Democratic Solid South. It's race, John. Richard Nixon saw this and developed a Southern strategy that appealed to the racist voters who, after the passage of Civil Rights, were so mad at the Democrats that they were willing to vote for a Republican, party of Lincoln not withstanding. This really started with Dixiecrats like Thurman becoming Republicans, and was accelerated by Civil Rights. As Johnson said, he handed the South to the Republicans for 100 years with one stroke of his pen. Dan M. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Double Standards on Regional Bigotry
--- Dan Minette [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It's race, John. Richard Nixon saw this and developed a Southern strategy that appealed to the racist voters who, after the passage of Civil Rights, were so mad at the Democrats that they were willing to vote for a Republican, party of Lincoln not withstanding. This really started with Dixiecrats like Thurman becoming Republicans, and was accelerated by Civil Rights. As Johnson said, he handed the South to the Republicans for 100 years with one stroke of his pen. Dan M. I don't think you're right about this one, Dan. The South (according to the social science on the topic I've seen, as well as personal experience) is no more (or less) racist than the rest of the country. It is, though, more socially conservative. In 1964, was it about race? I have no doubt that it was. In 1994, was it about race? I honestly think that it was not. = Gautam Mukunda [EMAIL PROTECTED] Freedom is not free http://www.mukunda.blogspot.com __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the Signing Bonus Sweepstakes http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: The GOP Problem With Women
From: Nick Arnett [EMAIL PROTECTED] The Fool wrote: The GOP Problem With Women http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A5050-2004Jan9?language=printer By Richard Morin Sunday, January 11, 2004; Page B05 Men and women may have achieved equality in many areas of American life, but they sure aren't treated the same by Republican primary voters. At least that's the finding of political scientists David C. King of Harvard University and Richard E. Matland of the University of Houston, who found that female candidates don't seem to do as well as similarly qualified men in GOP primaries. On the other hand, the researchers found, political independents and Democrats seem to prefer Republican women running for office over GOP guys. Let me see if I understand. Conservatives, who by definition favor traditional ways of doing things, tend to vote along the lines of the status quo, preserving male domination of political power. And this is news? Who else is going to be conservative, if not the conservatives? Conservatives have this see no evil / hear no evil mentality where they pathologically tend to ignore issues they don't want to acknowledge as true. For example recent posters saying Rush's remarks were not racist but 'anti-racist'. Or when creationists have to twist science to contort to their distorted views. Or when Right-Wing conspiracy nuts think their is a world-wide Illuminati/freemason/templars conspiracy to subvert 'christianity' in worshipping Satan. Conservative christian spew their hate but to them their hate is 'love'. If I might disagree somewhat, moderate conservatives tend more towards the status quo, but conservative conservatives are regressives. They want to halt all progress and return to some magical golden age when women and minorities knew their place and biblical law is absolute. Consider - all the republican congressional leaders are christian reconstructionists: hatch, santorum, frist, delay, etc. all want to overturn the constitution and create a biblical theocracy. As grover norquist said, they want to shrink the government to where they can drown it in the bathtub (codewords for overthrowing the constitution, etc.). The republican leadership wants to return to the power of popes and the divine right of kings. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Double Standards on Regional Bigotry
- Original Message - From: Gautam Mukunda [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 2:12 PM Subject: Re: Double Standards on Regional Bigotry --- Dan Minette [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It's race, John. Richard Nixon saw this and developed a Southern strategy that appealed to the racist voters who, after the passage of Civil Rights, were so mad at the Democrats that they were willing to vote for a Republican, party of Lincoln not withstanding. This really started with Dixiecrats like Thurman becoming Republicans, and was accelerated by Civil Rights. As Johnson said, he handed the South to the Republicans for 100 years with one stroke of his pen. Dan M. I don't think you're right about this one, Dan. The South (according to the social science on the topic I've seen, as well as personal experience) is no more (or less) racist than the rest of the country. It is, though, more socially conservative. In 1964, was it about race? I have no doubt that it was. In 1994, was it about race? I honestly think that it was not. Its certainly not as simple as saying that the South is racist and the North is not. There is a lot of racism in the North. But, the Southern strategy of the Republican party does include ensuring that the racist Southern vote in the South is squarely in their camp. There is an obvious potential problem for the Republicans in that poor whites would tend to stray from the Republican party to the Democratic party because the Republican party traditionally favors the acceleration of the concentration of national income in the top 1%-2% or so (5% is the smallest slice I can get numbers on, but I think they favor a tighter concentration than that.) For example, while I know of racists in Minnesota, I cannot fathom a former Grand Wizard of the KKK getting the clear majority of white votes in a race for governor. I can't fathom it in New York either. One hypothesis is that the racism in the South has long been a foundation of the politics there, but the racism in the North is harder to tap. Its still there, but not as easy to exploit with a few key words spoken at Bob Jones University or a visit that reminds people which Jesse one's party supports. My understanding is that, after the Democrats got the black vote solidly lined up after sacrificing their party for civil rights in '64, the Republicans rightly concluded that getting the racist vote should would compensate for this, as long as they didn't offend too many whites by how they did this. Dan M. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Double Standards on Regional Bigotry
- Original Message - From: Dan Minette [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 3:18 PM Subject: Re: Double Standards on Regional Bigotry Its certainly not as simple as saying that the South is racist and the North is not. There is a lot of racism in the North. But, the Southern strategy of the Republican party does include ensuring that the racist Southern vote in the South is squarely in their camp. The redundancy here was not intended. Also, I think that there is an attempt to get the racist Northern vote with the Southern strategy. Dan M. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: how CAPPS II works
This is the scariest thing ever. Get ready to be extorted! You want to fly, you have to pay $250 for your Cendant security records so that you can find out why your rating comes up yellow or red. Then once you find out you will have to pay thousands and thousands of dollars to clear the false record. Then once you have the yearly cross check from another data provider will plop that false record right back in your file. - even though the false record was oringinaly introduced by the company you cleared it from - You think not? Have you ever had erronious data on your credit report? --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Nick Arnett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The Fool wrote: Chart: http://www.dontspyonus.com/chart.html ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l I didn't realize that Cendant, of all companies, is operating the system that gathers, keeps and apparently has the right to (mis)use the information about who flies where. That company still owes me money from their massive rip-off of consumers and financial misrepresentations. In my case, I foolishly signed up for AutoVantage, which they operated, discovered it was worthless and cancelled my membership, but they kept billing my credit card for three or four years, even though each year I called to demand that they reverse the charges, which they never did, even though they promised to. They did that to many, many other people, too, stealing millions. And now our department of Homeland Security entrusts them to keep records about me! Sheesh. Nick -- Nick Arnett Phone/fax: (408) 904-7198 [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Weekly Chat Reminder
This is just a quick reminder that the Wednesday Brin-L chat is scheduled for 3 PM Eastern/2 PM Central time in the US, or 7 PM Greenwich time, so it started about an hour-and-a-half ago. There will probably be somebody there to talk to for at least eight hours after the start time. See my instruction page for help getting there: http://www.brin-l.org/brinmud.html __ Steve Sloan . Huntsville, Alabama = [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brin-L list pages .. http://www.brin-l.org Science Fiction-themed online store . http://www.sloan3d.com/store Chmeee's 3D Objects http://www.sloan3d.com/chmeee 3D and Drawing Galleries .. http://www.sloansteady.com Software Science Fiction, Science, and Computer Links Science fiction scans . http://www.sloan3d.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Shrub Imposes Islamic Laws in Iraq - Mass Demonstrations against Islamization
http://www.juancole.com/2004_01_01_juancole_archive.html#107406596161821 766 Mass demonstrations by Women, Others, against Sudden Islamization of Law The Baghdad/London daily az-Zaman reports that there were widespread demonstrations on Tuesday by women against the order decreeing abolition of Iraq's uniform civil codes in favor of religious law, which they say repeals women's rights in Iraq. This story appears to have been completely missed so far by the Western news media, which is a great shame. Women are important, too, guys. Women activists representing 80 women's organizations (including the female Interim Minister of Public Works!) gathered at Firdaws Square in downtown Baghdad to protest the IGC decree, issued three days ago. Minister of Public Works Nasreen Barwari complained to az-Zaman about the lack of transparency and of democratic consultation in the promulgation of the decree by the IGC. Protesters carried placards with phrases like No to discrimination, No to differentiating women and men in our New Iraq. and We reject Decree 137, which sanctifies religious communalism. Activist Zakiyah Khalifah complained that the law would weaken Iraqi families. US observers, including US Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, have continually worried in public about Iraq becoming a theocracy, and have rejected that option. But the American-appointed Interim Governing Council has suddenly taken Iraq in a theocratic direction that has important implications for women's rights. As reported here earlier, the IGC took a decision recently to abolish Iraq's civil personal status law, which was uniform for all Iraqis under the Baath. In its place, the IGC called for religious law to govern personal status, to be administered by the clerics of each of Iraq's major religious communities for members of their religion. Thus, Shiites would be under Shiite law and Chaldeans under Catholic canon law for these purposes. The IGC has ceded to the religious codes jurisdiction over marriage, engagement, suitability to marry, the marriage contract, proof of marriage, dowry, financial support, divorce, the 3-month severance payments owed to divorced wives in lieu of alimony, inheritance, and all other personal status matters. For the vast majority of women who are Muslim, the implementation of `iddah or the obligation of a man to support a woman for 3 months after he divorces her (a term long enough to see whether she is pregnant with his child) has the effect of abolishing the divorced woman's right to alimony. This abrogation of alimony was effected for Muslims in India in the mid-1980s with the Shah Banou case, as the Congress Party's sop to Indian Muslim fundamentalists. The particular form of Islamic law that the IGC seems to envisage operating would also give men the right of unilateral divorce over their wives, gives men the right to take second, third and fourth wives, and gives girls half as much inheritance from the father's estate as boys. Since the Interim Governing Council was appointed directly by the United States, it is in effect an organ of the Occupation Authority. As such, it is a contravention of the 1907 Hague Regulations for it to change civil law in an occupied territory. The US appointed a number of clerics and leaders of religious parties to the IGC, almost ensuring that this sort of thing would happen. The US is now in the position of imposing on the Iraqi public, including the 50% who are women, a theocratic code of personal status. The question is whether this step is just the first in the road to an Iraqi theocracy. -- I can't imagine that I'm going to be attacked for telling the truth. Why would I be attacked for telling the truth? Paul O'Neill, 60 Minutes ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Announcing brin-l-books
Following several months of development by me and lots of testing by the members of the Wednesday chat brin-l-books is probably ready for you all to try :) http://books.scattersoft.com An interactive web site where you can view and vote on books. The initial lists are compiled from lists of award winning books, books mentioned on list, and recommendations from the testers on the Wednesday chat. The site allows searching by author and category, and has a 'new books' feature for returning visitors that shows titles added since their last visit. To initially register on the site you need to provide a working email address which is used to email you a URL for activation. To use the site you need to have cookies enabled on your browser (but you can clear them when you leave). You can vote, or rate, the books from Useless to Essential and change (or remove entirely) your votes as often as you like. The number of voters and the average rating is given for each book so you can see which books are most popular among brin-l-ers. Each book also has a purchase link that takes you directly to the Amazon.com page for that book. This is an affiliate link which means that I get a small commission if anyone buys through that link. -- William T Goodall Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/ If you listen to a UNIX shell, can you hear the C? ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Shrub Imposes Islamic Laws in Iraq - Mass Demonstrations against Islamization
No mention of this on Al-jazeera. If anyone would report on it they would (they're very good at upplaying stories of dissent and de-emphasizing other less negative stories...)... Damon. = Damon Agretto [EMAIL PROTECTED] Qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum. http://www.geocities.com/garrand.geo/index.html Now Building: __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the Signing Bonus Sweepstakes http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Shrub Imposes Islamic Laws in Iraq - Mass Demonstrationsagainst Islamization
From: Damon Agretto [EMAIL PROTECTED] No mention of this on Al-jazeera. If anyone would report on it they would (they're very good at upplaying stories of dissent and de-emphasizing other less negative stories...)... Would they? Women dissenting against Islamic Laws? I have my doubts. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Double Standards on Regional Bigotry
- Original Message - From: Dan Minette [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 5:50 PM Subject: Re: Double Standards on Regional Bigotry Let me retry to line up the #s. black whiteHispanic 80-92 +5.9% +6.4% +5.9% 92-00 +31.5%+13.9% +22.0% 00-02 -6.3%-1.6%-4.4% Dan M. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Double Standards on Regional Bigotry
- Original Message - From: John D. Giorgis [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2004 7:44 PM Subject: Re: Double Standards on Regional Bigotry At 06:34 PM 1/11/2004 -0500 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 1/10/2004 4:25:31 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Personally, if you want to talk about pandering, I'll talk abotu a party that collects 90% of the vote of people of a certain race. That's only *possible* via pandering Alternately, it may be the result of the policies of the republican party with regard to the welfare of that race (by the way which race are we talkng about). And of course the fact that the republican party gets over 90% of the vote of a religous groups with certain philosophies or certain aspects of the economic sector is not pandering? Of course the Republican Party is terrible for African Americans. That is why 30 years of unquestioning, nearly unanmious, support for the Democratic Party has produced such a substantial improvement in the welfare of African Americans. I'll freely admit that the results of the '70s were mixedbut the results since then are as clear as can be. Lets look at how different races/ethnic groups fared under Republican and Democratic administrations. blackNon-Hispanic white Hispanic 80-92 +5.9% +6.4% +5.9% 92-00 +31.5%+13.9% +22.0% 00-02 -6.3%-1.6% -4.4% So, in 14 years under Republican rule, blacks lost about half a percent. In 8 years under Democratic rule, they gained over 30%. It seems to me that deciding that the Democrats are better for them than Republicans is straightforward. Dan M. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Physics Quiz
Ronn!Blankenship wrote: ... And the grading is off--I answered false to this one, and got it wrong, because the correct answer is false: 7) To produce heat, the Sun burns hydrogen in a combustion reaction. Your Answer: false View Explanation So what was their explanation for claiming that the correct answer should be true? -- Ronn! :) Read carefully. They claimed the correct answer was false. ---David It depends what you mean by combustion. : ) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Double Standards on Regional Bigotry
- Original Message - From: Dan Minette [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 3:31 PM Subject: Re: Double Standards on Regional Bigotry - Original Message - From: Dan Minette [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 3:18 PM Subject: Re: Double Standards on Regional Bigotry Its certainly not as simple as saying that the South is racist and the North is not. There is a lot of racism in the North. But, the Southern strategy of the Republican party does include ensuring that the racist Southern vote in the South is squarely in their camp. The redundancy here was not intended. Also, I think that there is an attempt to get the racist Northern vote with the Southern strategy. There is probably some truth to what you are describing. But I think a greater effect relates to multigenerational voting along party lines. Daddy was a republican so I am too After 64, southern people became habituated to voting republican even after race became something of a minor issue. ( As in not the top issue) If one were to converse with working class people in the south, I think one would find that voting habits are not something that a lot of thought is given to, and that justifications for ones voting record are mostly fatuous rationalizations, even though they are sincerely believed. AFAIK, this is probably true everywhere (though the situational premises would be different). xponent Addiction Maru rob ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Double Standards on Regional Bigotry
At 03:31 PM 1/14/2004 -0600 Dan Minette wrote: Its certainly not as simple as saying that the South is racist and the North is not. There is a lot of racism in the North. But, the Southern strategy of the Republican party does include ensuring that the racist Southern vote in the South is squarely in their camp. The redundancy here was not intended. Also, I think that there is an attempt to get the racist Northern vote with the Southern strategy. Please tell me that you meant the past tense in this. Was not is. JDG ___ John D. Giorgis - [EMAIL PROTECTED] The liberty we prize is not America's gift to the world, it is God's gift to humanity. - George W. Bush 1/29/03 ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Double Standards on Regional Bigotry
--- Dan Minette [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: For example, while I know of racists in Minnesota, I cannot fathom a former Grand Wizard of the KKK getting the clear majority of white votes in a race for governor. I can't fathom it in New York either. Dan M. West Virginia? After which he would become President Pro Tem of the Senate and one of the most respected members of the Democratic Party? And it's not as if the West Virginians have the excuse that he was running agaist Edwards, either. = Gautam Mukunda [EMAIL PROTECTED] Freedom is not free http://www.mukunda.blogspot.com __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the Signing Bonus Sweepstakes http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Double Standards on Regional Bigotry
At 05:50 PM 1/14/2004 -0600 Dan Minette wrote: So, in 14 years under Republican rule, blacks lost about half a percent. In 8 years under Democratic rule, they gained over 30%. It seems to me that deciding that the Democrats are better for them than Republicans is straightforward. And these numbers are relevant, how? I guess that they are relevant if you really truly believe that Al Gore invented the Internet, and if you believe that the recessions of '82, '91, and '01 were all the Republicans' fault. If only we had Democratic Presidents, then I am sure that we would never have had recessions and the 1990's asset bubble would have last forever, eh? And of course, I would also point out that it takes some pretty interesting temporal dynamics to use economic results from the Clinton years to explain voting patterns that have held for the past 30 years. JDG ___ John D. Giorgis - [EMAIL PROTECTED] The liberty we prize is not America's gift to the world, it is God's gift to humanity. - George W. Bush 1/29/03 ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Double Standards on Regional Bigotry
At 06:50 PM 1/14/2004 -0600 Robert Seeberger wrote: If one were to converse with working class people in the south, I think one would find that voting habits are not something that a lot of thought is given to, and that justifications for ones voting record are mostly fatuous rationalizations, even though they are sincerely believed. AFAIK, this is probably true everywhere (though the situational premises would be different). Come on, why need to bring ignorance into the equation? 1) Voting tendencies among adults tend to be sticky over time.Hence the old phrase you can't teach an old dog new tricks.Most people don't change their political views later in life. 2) Voting tendencies are correlated with the voting tendencies of your parents.Children learn values from their parents, and these values often translate into voting preferences. 3) People in the South are much more likely to be Evangelical Protestants than people in the North.Republicans agree with Evangelical Protestants on a number of key issues, including Abortion, Legal Recognition of Homosexuality,and the importance of promoting abstinence and marriage. But of course, this being Brin-L, Republicans are guilty of race-mongering that Democrats are very much above and beyond. JDG - Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton, Maru ___ John D. Giorgis - [EMAIL PROTECTED] The liberty we prize is not America's gift to the world, it is God's gift to humanity. - George W. Bush 1/29/03 ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: The GOP Problem With Women
At 10:58 AM 1/14/2004 -0800 Nick Arnett wrote: Let me see if I understand. Conservatives, who by definition favor traditional ways of doing things, tend to vote along the lines of the status quo, preserving male domination of political power. And this is news? Who else is going to be conservative, if not the conservatives? Nick, I am not sure that you realize what you are saying, but as perhaps the most vocal conservative on this List, let me ask the obvious question anyways: Do you believe that I, as a conservative, quote, by definition... favor preserving the male domination of political power? I personally suspect that abortion views are playing some kind of role in here, and that due to the lack of prominent pro-life women politicians, many Republicans may tend to reflexively assume that a woman politician is pro-choice. At any rate, though, I am very interested in your answer to my question. JDG - Who in the last hour alone has been accused of vigorously supporting people who by definition support the subjugation of women, the return of seggregation, increases in income inequality as quickly as possible, and the impoverhing of people of color.. ___ John D. Giorgis - [EMAIL PROTECTED] The liberty we prize is not America's gift to the world, it is God's gift to humanity. - George W. Bush 1/29/03 ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Double Standards on Regional Bigotry
From: John D. Giorgis [EMAIL PROTECTED] 3) People in the South are much more likely to be Evangelical Protestants than people in the North.Republicans agree with Evangelical Protestants on a number of key issues, including Abortion, Legal Recognition of Homosexuality,and the importance of promoting abstinence and marriage. Evangelical Protestants also tend to be the most bigoted, racist, extremist religious block. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Double Standards on Regional Bigotry
- Original Message - From: John D. Giorgis [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 7:24 PM Subject: Re: Double Standards on Regional Bigotry At 03:31 PM 1/14/2004 -0600 Dan Minette wrote: Its certainly not as simple as saying that the South is racist and the North is not. There is a lot of racism in the North. But, the Southern strategy of the Republican party does include ensuring that the racist Southern vote in the South is squarely in their camp. The redundancy here was not intended. Also, I think that there is an attempt to get the racist Northern vote with the Southern strategy. Please tell me that you meant the past tense in this. Was not is. There are still clear signs that the Republican party knows that keeping the racist vote is critical. Thus, you get senators adressing racist groups and visiting racist institutions full of praise. If you want to argue that the Democrats are not harsh enough on irresponsible black leaders, I won't argue. But, I'm not giving the Republicans a free pass on courting racists. I'm not saying that Bush is a racist. He probably isn't. I'd put money on a straight up bet against him being an old fashioned Texas racist. But, Trent saying that things would have been better if Strom had won instead of Harry wasn't an accident. The only problem is that he got caught with the wrong people hearing it. Dan M. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: The GOP Problem With Women
From: John D. Giorgis [EMAIL PROTECTED] JDG - Who in the last hour alone has been accused of vigorously supporting people who by definition support the subjugation of women, the return of seggregation, increases in income inequality as quickly as possible, and the impoverhing of people of color.. That sums up the republican platform pretty well. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: The GOP Problem With Women
At 08:11 PM 1/14/2004 -0600 The Fool wrote: From: John D. Giorgis [EMAIL PROTECTED] JDG - Who in the last hour alone has been accused of vigorously supporting people who by definition support the subjugation of women, the return of seggregation, increases in income inequality as quickly as possible, and the impoverhing of people of color.. That sums up the republican platform pretty well. Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that all of that didn't even include the usual rants from The Fool that are a little more obviously over-the-top than the comments from the other left-wing posters on this List who usually attempt to be reasonable-minded about things. JDG - And did I mention that apparently I support lying to and deceiving the American public too? ___ John D. Giorgis - [EMAIL PROTECTED] The liberty we prize is not America's gift to the world, it is God's gift to humanity. - George W. Bush 1/29/03 ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Double Standards on Regional Bigotry
- Original Message - From: John D. Giorgis [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 7:48 PM Subject: Re: Double Standards on Regional Bigotry At 06:50 PM 1/14/2004 -0600 Robert Seeberger wrote: If one were to converse with working class people in the south, I think one would find that voting habits are not something that a lot of thought is given to, and that justifications for ones voting record are mostly fatuous rationalizations, even though they are sincerely believed. AFAIK, this is probably true everywhere (though the situational premises would be different). Come on, why need to bring ignorance into the equation? If I were making a claim for ignorance, I certainly would have said so. There may be some element of obtuseness, intentional or otherwise. And it doesn't apply only to republicans. I would think that was clear, even though I was pointing my premise toward a particular series of historical events where the republicans profited at the expense of democrats. My statements should not be taken as a slam of the republicans, but as an additional influence that caused their preeiminence in the south. 1) Voting tendencies among adults tend to be sticky over time. Hence the old phrase you can't teach an old dog new tricks.Most people don't change their political views later in life. 2) Voting tendencies are correlated with the voting tendencies of your parents.Children learn values from their parents, and these values often translate into voting preferences. 3) People in the South are much more likely to be Evangelical Protestants than people in the North.Republicans agree with Evangelical Protestants on a number of key issues, including Abortion, Legal Recognition of Homosexuality,and the importance of promoting abstinence and marriage. 1 and 2 say pretty much what I was saying. 3, I might word differently, changing its meaning a bit, but I would agree that it is essentially true with either wording. But of course, this being Brin-L, Republicans are guilty of race-mongering that Democrats are very much above and beyond. Now John, don't let the extremes typify your opinion of the average. We know there is enough guilt to go around and be shared by everyone. Unless anyone here considers themselves or their side to be lily white. JDG - Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton, Maru xponent Don't You have Any White People To Criticise Honky? Maru rob G ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: how CAPPS II works
At 04:19 PM 1/14/2004, you wrote: This is the scariest thing ever. Get ready to be extorted! You want to fly, you have to pay $250 for your Cendant security records so that you can find out why your rating comes up yellow or red. Then once you find out you will have to pay thousands and thousands of dollars to clear the false record. Then once you have the yearly cross check from another data provider will plop that false record right back in your file. - even though the false record was oringinaly introduced by the company you cleared it from - You think not? Have you ever had erronious data on your credit report? Yes I did. It took one phone call to clear it. I still have nightmares over that burden. Kevin T. - VRWC Through being cool ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Double Standards on Regional Bigotry
The Fool wrote: From: John D. Giorgis [EMAIL PROTECTED] 3) People in the South are much more likely to be Evangelical Protestants than people in the North.Republicans agree with Evangelical Protestants on a number of key issues, including Abortion, Legal Recognition of Homosexuality,and the importance of promoting abstinence and marriage. Evangelical Protestants also tend to be the most bigoted, racist, extremist religious block. As a block, maybe. As individuals, certainly some are not. The person I know the best whom I'd characterize as being an evangelical protestant is *not* bigoted or racist or extremist. Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Announcing brin-l-books
On 14 Jan 2004, at 10:40 pm, William T Goodall wrote: Following several months of development by me and lots of testing by the members of the Wednesday chat brin-l-books is probably ready for you all to try :) http://books.scattersoft.com An interactive web site where you can view and vote on books. The initial lists are compiled from lists of award winning books, books mentioned on list, and recommendations from the testers on the Wednesday chat. The site allows searching by author and category, and has a 'new books' feature for returning visitors that shows titles added since their last visit. To initially register on the site you need to provide a working email address which is used to email you a URL for activation. To use the site you need to have cookies enabled on your browser (but you can clear them when you leave). It seems to be off to quite a good start :) Several of you have registered and between you cast hundreds of votes. Of Dr Brin's books we can see that _Startide Rising_ and _Kiln People_ are the most popular. Surprisingly, neither of these has a '10' rating although several books by diverse other authors have managed that... -- William T Goodall Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/ The fact that an opinion has been widely held is no evidence whatever that it is not utterly absurd; indeed in view of the silliness of the majority of mankind, a widespread belief is more likely to be foolish than sensible. - Bertrand Russell ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Double Standards on Regional Bigotry
At 05:35 PM 1/14/2004 -0800 Gautam Mukunda wrote: --- Dan Minette [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: For example, while I know of racists in Minnesota, I cannot fathom a former Grand Wizard of the KKK getting the clear majority of white votes in a race for governor. I can't fathom it in New York either. Dan M. West Virginia? After which he would become President Pro Tem of the Senate and one of the most respected members of the Democratic Party? Or how about someone with a history of association with several white's rights groups and opposition to busing and minority-housing developments becoming the leader of his party in the House of Represenatives, a two-time Presidential Candidate, and the favorite to win the Iowa caucuses. JDG ___ John D. Giorgis - [EMAIL PROTECTED] The liberty we prize is not America's gift to the world, it is God's gift to humanity. - George W. Bush 1/29/03 ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Announcing brin-l-books
At 05:40 PM 1/14/2004, you wrote: Following several months of development by me and lots of testing by the members of the Wednesday chat brin-l-books is probably ready for you all to try :) http://books.scattersoft.com An interactive web site where you can view and vote on books. The initial lists are compiled from lists of award winning books, books mentioned on list, and recommendations from the testers on the Wednesday chat. The site allows searching by author and category, and has a 'new books' feature for returning visitors that shows titles added since their last visit. To initially register on the site you need to provide a working email address which is used to email you a URL for activation. To use the site you need to have cookies enabled on your browser (but you can clear them when you leave). You can vote, or rate, the books from Useless to Essential and change (or remove entirely) your votes as often as you like. The number of voters and the average rating is given for each book so you can see which books are most popular among brin-l-ers. Each book also has a purchase link that takes you directly to the Amazon.com page for that book. This is an affiliate link which means that I get a small commission if anyone buys through that link. -- William T Goodall Didn't someone send out a list of 4000 books a few years ago? John Horn? That doesn't seems to be the right person. But I've ben begging for something like this on our subservient list, they throw around titles and likes and dislikes so fast it's hard to keep up. So thank you William, I'll buy you a pint if I'm ever allowed back in England. Kevin T. - VRWC Made a bobby cry joking ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Double Standards on Regional Bigotry
At 09:19 PM 1/14/2004, you wrote: - Original Message - From: John D. Giorgis [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 7:24 PM Subject: Re: Double Standards on Regional Bigotry At 03:31 PM 1/14/2004 -0600 Dan Minette wrote: Its certainly not as simple as saying that the South is racist and the North is not. There is a lot of racism in the North. But, the Southern strategy of the Republican party does include ensuring that the racist Southern vote in the South is squarely in their camp. The redundancy here was not intended. Also, I think that there is an attempt to get the racist Northern vote with the Southern strategy. Please tell me that you meant the past tense in this. Was not is. There are still clear signs that the Republican party knows that keeping the racist vote is critical. Thus, you get senators adressing racist groups and visiting racist institutions full of praise. If you want to argue that the Democrats are not harsh enough on irresponsible black leaders, I won't argue. But, I'm not giving the Republicans a free pass on courting racists. I'm not saying that Bush is a racist. He probably isn't. I'd put money on a straight up bet against him being an old fashioned Texas racist. But, Trent saying that things would have been better if Strom had won instead of Harry wasn't an accident. The only problem is that he got caught with the wrong people hearing it. Dan M. He probably isn't racist. How nice of you to say that. And the next time you are at a function honoring someone 40 years older than you, make sure his past is clean so your general remark can't be turned into a proof that you are a racist or bigot or homophobe. Kevin T. - VRWC Time for bed, snow day tomorrow? ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: The GOP Problem With Women
John D. Giorgis wrote: At 10:58 AM 1/14/2004 -0800 Nick Arnett wrote: Let me see if I understand. Conservatives, who by definition favor traditional ways of doing things, tend to vote along the lines of the status quo, preserving male domination of political power. And this is news? Who else is going to be conservative, if not the conservatives? Nick, I am not sure that you realize what you are saying, but as perhaps the most vocal conservative on this List, let me ask the obvious question anyways: Do you believe that I, as a conservative, quote, by definition... favor preserving the male domination of political power? No -- really, no. But you'd be more likely to than those who aren't conservative, of course. This item struck me as practically a tautology. But I'm not going to make the mistake of assuming that each member of a somewhat vaguely defined segment of the population -- conservatives -- has all of the characteristics of the average. Hardly anybody is average. I personally suspect that abortion views are playing some kind of role in here, and that due to the lack of prominent pro-life women politicians, many Republicans may tend to reflexively assume that a woman politician is pro-choice. That makes sense. To what extent do you regard conservatives, as a generalization, as male-dominated? Nick -- Nick Arnett Phone/fax: (408) 904-7198 [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: The GOP Problem With Women
At 06:54 PM 1/14/2004 -0800 Nick Arnett wrote: That makes sense. To what extent do you regard conservatives, as a generalization, as male-dominated? In all honesty none. I can say with a clear conscience that I have never ever made that connection in my mind before. JDG ___ John D. Giorgis - [EMAIL PROTECTED] The liberty we prize is not America's gift to the world, it is God's gift to humanity. - George W. Bush 1/29/03 ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Announcing brin-l-books
On 15 Jan 2004, at 2:45 am, Kevin Tarr wrote: Didn't someone send out a list of 4000 books a few years ago? John Horn? That doesn't seems to be the right person. But I've ben begging for something like this on our subservient list, they throw around titles and likes and dislikes so fast it's hard to keep up. So thank you William, I'll buy you a pint if I'm ever allowed back in England. It seemed like a useful sort of thing to do, so I hope people use it and enjoy it :) -- William T Goodall Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/ It is our belief, however, that serious professional users will run out of things they can do with UNIX. - Ken Olsen, President of DEC, 1984. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Double Standards on Regional Bigotry
- Original Message - From: Kevin Tarr [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 8:53 PM Subject: Re: Double Standards on Regional Bigotry At 09:19 PM 1/14/2004, you wrote: - Original Message - From: John D. Giorgis [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 7:24 PM Subject: Re: Double Standards on Regional Bigotry At 03:31 PM 1/14/2004 -0600 Dan Minette wrote: Its certainly not as simple as saying that the South is racist and the North is not. There is a lot of racism in the North. But, the Southern strategy of the Republican party does include ensuring that the racist Southern vote in the South is squarely in their camp. The redundancy here was not intended. Also, I think that there is an attempt to get the racist Northern vote with the Southern strategy. Please tell me that you meant the past tense in this. Was not is. There are still clear signs that the Republican party knows that keeping the racist vote is critical. Thus, you get senators adressing racist groups and visiting racist institutions full of praise. If you want to argue that the Democrats are not harsh enough on irresponsible black leaders, I won't argue. But, I'm not giving the Republicans a free pass on courting racists. I'm not saying that Bush is a racist. He probably isn't. I'd put money on a straight up bet against him being an old fashioned Texas racist. But, Trent saying that things would have been better if Strom had won instead of Harry wasn't an accident. The only problem is that he got caught with the wrong people hearing it. Dan M. He probably isn't racist. How nice of you to say that. And the next time you are at a function honoring someone 40 years older than you, make sure his past is clean so your general remark can't be turned into a proof that you are a racist or bigot or homophobe. Aw c'mon Kevin. You have to recognize that there is absolutely no way Lott did not know of Thurmonds past. (Maybe with the exception of his fathering a child by his black maid). Its a matter of public record, and that little bit of history is extremely well known. xponent History Maru rob ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Danger of US military overextension
At 09:45 AM 1/12/2004 -0800, you wrote: I don't think a draft is a good way of putting more men into uniform to fight wars, at least with the type of war that we're engaged in now. However, I absolutely do agree (and I've been saying tis publically on the list for as long as I've been a member) that Clinton's military cuts went too deep. I am partially reminded of the situation during the Interwar period (1919-1941), where the Army was drawn down to an almost token force, a cadre to manage rapid expansion when war did come. However, if it wasn't for the far-sightedness of people like Roosevelt, the US would have been in serious trouble when war did come, totally lacking in any medium tanks (FREX) and planning a war against an army that was one of the most advanced on the world at that time. I think the situation in Iraq, plus the ongoing War against Terror, combined with the fact that national Guard units are being federalized in order to cover our commitments elsewhere (the 28th Infantry Division of the Pennsylvania National Guard is due to rotate out to the Balkans to serve with SFOR, and other units are going to Europe to man the bases there) I think indicates the overextension of the Army. Finally, if we keep asking our current Active units to stay deployed for extended periods of time, not only will this hurt morale, but the increased operational tempo will break down equipment and hurt training in other military operations, so that as a whole the Army will be less capable of transitioning from one operation to another. Thankfully nothing happened in any other part of the world (like say Korea); with current deployments we would be incapable of meeting that challenge with the forces in theater (2nd ID, plus supporting elements), which is what the Clinton administration intended the smaller army of today to do. Damon, we could use around 3 more divisions. = - At least 3 more. Retirements and discharges are reported to be frozen (not a very good sign), and the scuttlebutt I hear is that re-enlistments will be down. We're stretched mighty thin and Deus Volent, Rumsfeld et al will realize this and reactivate some of those divisions that had been disbanded after the end of the Cold War. john ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: how CAPPS II works
The Fool wrote: Chart: http://www.dontspyonus.com/chart.html Cheers. They get to sell the info to other people. :P Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Transcript of President Bush's Speech at NASA
Thanks for the warm welcome. I'm honored to be with the men and women of NASA. I thank those of you who have come in person. I welcome those who are listening by video. This agency, and the dedicated professionals who serve it, have always reflected the finest values of our country -- daring, discipline, ingenuity, and unity in the pursuit of great goals. America is proud of our space program. The risk takers and visionaries of this agency have expanded human knowledge, have revolutionized our understanding of the universe, and produced technological advances that have benefited all of humanity. Inspired by all that has come before, and guided by clear objectives, today we set a new course for America's space program. We will give NASA a new focus and vision for future exploration. We will build new ships to carry man forward into the universe, to gain a new foothold on the moon, and to prepare for new journeys to worlds beyond our own. I am comfortable in delegating these new goals to NASA, under the leadership of Sean O'Keefe. He's doing an excellent job. (Applause.) I appreciate Commander Mike Foale's introduction -- I'm sorry I couldn't shake his hand. (Laughter.) Perhaps, Commissioner, you'll bring him by -- Administrator, you'll bring him by the Oval Office when he returns, so I can thank him in person. I also know he is in space with his colleague, Alexander Kaleri, who happens to be a Russian cosmonaut. I appreciate the joint efforts of the Russians with our country to explore. I want to thank the astronauts who are with us, the courageous spacial entrepreneurs who set such a wonderful example for the young of our country. (Applause.) And we've got some veterans with us today. I appreciate the astronauts of yesterday who are with us, as well, who inspired the astronauts of today to serve our country. I appreciate so very much the members of Congress being here. Tom DeLay is here, leading a House delegation. Senator Nelson is here from the Senate. I am honored that you all have come. I appreciate you're interested in the subject -- (laughter) -- it is a subject that's important to this administration, it's a subject that's mighty important to the country and to the world. Two centuries ago, Meriwether Lewis and William Clark left St. Louis to explore the new lands acquired in the Louisiana Purchase. They made that journey in the spirit of discovery, to learn the potential of vast new territory, and to chart a way for others to follow. America has ventured forth into space for the same reasons. We have undertaken space travel because the desire to explore and understand is part of our character. And that quest has brought tangible benefits that improve our lives in countless ways. The exploration of space has led to advances in weather forecasting, in communications, in computing, search and rescue technology, robotics, and electronics. Our investment in space exploration helped to create our satellite telecommunications network and the Global Positioning System. Medical technologies that help prolong life -- such as the imaging processing used in CAT scanners and MRI machines -- trace their origins to technology engineered for the use in space. Our current programs and vehicles for exploring space have brought us far and they have served us well. The Space Shuttle has flown more than a hundred missions. It has been used to conduct important research and to increase the sum of human knowledge. Shuttle crews, and the scientists and engineers who support them, have helped to build the International Space Station. Telescopes -- including those in space -- have revealed more than 100 planets in the last decade alone. Probes have shown us stunning images of the rings of Saturn and the outer planets of our solar system. Robotic explorers have found evidence of water -- a key ingredient for life -- on Mars and on the moons of Jupiter. At this very hour, the Mars Exploration Rover Spirit is searching for evidence of life beyond the Earth. Yet for all these successes, much remains for us to explore and to learn. In the past 30 years, no human being has set foot on another world, or ventured farther upward into space than 386 miles -- roughly the distance from Washington, D.C. to Boston, Massachusetts. America has not developed a new vehicle to advance human exploration in space in nearly a quarter century. It is time for America to take the next steps. Today I announce a new plan to explore space and extend a human presence across our solar system. We will begin the effort quickly, using existing programs and personnel. We'll make steady progress -- one mission, one voyage, one landing at a time. Our first goal is to complete the International Space Station by 2010. We will finish what we have started, we will meet our obligations to our 15 international partners on this project. We will focus our future research aboard the station on the long-term effects of space travel on human biology. The
Re: Double Standards on Regional Bigotry
- Original Message - From: Kevin Tarr [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 8:53 PM Subject: Re: Double Standards on Regional Bigotry He probably isn't racist. How nice of you to say that. And the next time you are at a function honoring someone 40 years older than you, make sure his past is clean so your general remark can't be turned into a proof that you are a racist or bigot or homophobe. He made _specific_ remarks about the nation being better if Strom had won the '48 election when he ran for president as the states rights party candidate. He ran because the Democrats had planks in their platform that called for civil rights for blacks. He ran because of his strong belief in segregation. Are you actually suggesting that Trent didn't know about this when he specifically remarked on this? General remarks about him being a wonderful fellow, a good father, etc., I could take. Talks about his leadership on this bill or that, I wouldn't have taken as indicating anything. But direct praise for his running on a segregation platform? No. It strains credibility to think that Trent, who has been active in Mississippi politics for over 30 years. knew nothing about the Dixiecrat party. Dan M. Dan M. Dan M. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: The GOP Problem With Women
- Original Message - From: John D. Giorgis [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 9:00 PM Subject: Re: The GOP Problem With Women At 06:54 PM 1/14/2004 -0800 Nick Arnett wrote: That makes sense. To what extent do you regard conservatives, as a generalization, as male-dominated? In all honesty none. I can say with a clear conscience that I have never ever made that connection in my mind before. You really aren't familiar with Evangelicals, then. I don't know how many of them told me that women need to obey their husbands. Dan M. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Transcript of President Bush's Speech at NASA
Tonight ABC News said that they were only budgeting $12G for the entire program. Only $1G was new money for NASA, the other $11G would come from reshuffling NASA's budget. See: http://www.nasa.gov/about/budget/ My immediate impressions was that this is a zero sum game. The unmanned mission consituencies (roboteers and planetologists) are going getting screwed for the manned mission consituencies. --- Personally, I do not think its true that manned space flights have a low research value. They have a relatively low return in terms of pure planetology and allied sciences. Afterall, like the commenator said the primary goal for any manned space mission is bringing the crew back alive. That doesn't mean that manned space missions have a low technology return. It does mean that the technology return from manned space exploration gets concentrated in furthering the science and technology of human space travel and habitation -- which must really suck if you happen to be a planetary science person. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Tg Territories
Alberto: I come up with 10 major Terragen colonies. The problem is that Galactics wouldn't count Mars or Venus as proper leaseholds, so I get 8 leases. In fact, my exepectation is that if you asked a Galactic how many leaseholds their race had they would only report their Homeworld, B, and C class leases, and some wouldn't even include the Class B leases. (Arabs sometimes do something similar, you ask them how many kids they have and they say three boys -- most will say three boys and two girls, very few will say five kids boys and girls together. [This is partly because the Arabic word for children is ambiguous and in the strict sense means boys.]) So, Alberto, the question is should we accept that there are 8 leases and 10 colonies or do we need to invent two more leased planets? --- Various Terragen Confederation Territories by GIM Leasehold Type Terragens have 9 colonies and their homeworld lease on Earth. By Galactic standards Mars and Venus do not count as proper leaseholds so Humans have only 8 B or C grade leases, and of these three are only temporary leases. --- Class A-: Mars: Venus: Galactics regard the Human efforts to terraform Mars and Venus as folly. Few Galactics would put more than a military outpost on a desert planet like Mars or a greenhouse planet like Venus. --- Class A (terraforming candidate with some life present): Humans have no Class A leases. --- Class B (ecological remediation): Deemi: Before Contact Humans had established a few small outposts on Deemi and an orbital way-station. Early Human explorers thought Deemi was too far gone to make a good colony. Nevertheless, the GIM issued Humanity a Class T lease on Deemi. This has since been converted to a Class B lease along with the obligation to provide a refuge for Uplift transportees. Dezni: A planet where mulc spiders are found. The presence of mulc spiders is testimony to how recently Dezni was returned to fallow. That it is already candidate for ecological remediation indicates how badly its former tenants treated the world. Otherwise, Dezni is in many ways a typical B grade planet. It is the Terragen's second most recently awarded leasehold. The small, young colony has been raided since the start the Streaker War, but the neither the colony nor the planet are worth much as either hostage or prizes in their own right. Horst: Horst was badly damaged in the Fututhoon aggression 50 million years ago and has not recovered on its own. It is currently in an ice age, but is otherwise pretty typical for a B grade planet. [NB this conforms to GURPS Uplift 2nd ed, and not current A4P narrative for Horst.] Omnivarium: Planet of song-birds, that will mimic any sound the settlers make. Omnivarium is ecologically robust for a B grade world. It has a strong agricultural sector and active exploitation of a local asteroid belt. After Calafia, it is the largest extra-Solar Human colony. This Human colony can probably defend itself in the present crisis. --- Class C: Calafia: Calafia is Earth's only C Class leasehold. It is unofficially regarded as a garden world, but with less than an ideal amount of dry land. The lack of dry land was no obstacle for the Terragens. It was expected that the Terragens would eventually petition to make Calafia the Neo-Dolphin homeworld. However, Calafia was invaded by Brothers of the Night, and subsequently by Soro forces resulting in a nasty three-way war. The future of Calafia is in doubt. --- Homeworld: Earth: Earth is the Human homeworld. It is a garden world extraordinare and the genetic treasure trove of the Galaxies. --- Class T: Class T leases are interim leases granted as an extension when tenants run late vacating a planet. By the time of Contact Humans had established colonies on Atlast and NuDawn and an outpost on Deemi. Shortly after the Library Institute granted Humanity a sealed Research Patent for Stellar Exploration, the Galactic Institute of Migration granted considerably leniency to Humanity and Clan Terragen by dropping all proceedings against Humans for Fallow Violations and granted Class T leases on Atlast, NuDawn, and Deemi. The lease on Deemi has since been upgraded to a Class B lease. Atlast: A rustic Human colony world. Atlast was discovered by Earth during its Bureaucracy. Its first colonists were political transportees. It is no accident that Atlast's capital city is named Gorky. Many colonists on Atlast are members of anti-modernist or anti-technology groups such as the Amish. Atlast has a reputation for liberalism bordering on xenophilia. It also boasts one of the premiere universities in Terragen space. Atlast is only leased for only 6,000 hab-years, in a compromise reached with the G.I.M. (See also, Lease of Atlast.) Atlast is in located in the Ash. It would not qualify for lease on Class C terms and the GIM is
Re: Double Standards on Regional Bigotry
- Original Message - From: John D. Giorgis [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 7:37 PM Subject: Re: Double Standards on Regional Bigotry At 05:50 PM 1/14/2004 -0600 Dan Minette wrote: So, in 14 years under Republican rule, blacks lost about half a percent. In 8 years under Democratic rule, they gained over 30%. It seems to me that deciding that the Democrats are better for them than Republicans is straightforward. And these numbers are relevant, how? I guess that they are relevant if you really truly believe that Al Gore invented the Internet, and if you believe that the recessions of '82, '91, and '01 were all the Republicans' fault. If only we had Democratic Presidents, then I am sure that we would never have had recessions and the 1990's asset bubble would have last forever, eh? No, but the recovery would be much more broad based. I realize that in ecconomics one can always argue coincidence, but its happening again. Its been happening for over 80 years John. I'd be happy to calculate how probable that is from pure chance, but I don't think any numbers could change your mind. And of course, I would also point out that it takes some pretty interesting temporal dynamics to use economic results from the Clinton years to explain voting patterns that have held for the past 30 years. The _only_ exception to this was that Ford and Carter were close, with Carter just being slightly better. But, Johnson was way better than Nixon for blacks. Its going to continue, too. I predict that, during the present recovery, blacks will not outpace whites in economic gains the way they did with Clinton (i.e. catching up). So far, they are losing ground faster than whites, which is not a good sign. In fact, I'll be willing to wager with you, John, that during the remainder of Bush's term, the mean income of blacks does not get back up to the 65% of white mean income that they achieved under Clinton. Dan M. Dan M. Dan M. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Double Standards on Regional Bigotry
- Original Message - From: John D. Giorgis [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 7:37 PM Subject: Re: Double Standards on Regional Bigotry At 05:50 PM 1/14/2004 -0600 Dan Minette wrote: So, in 14 years under Republican rule, blacks lost about half a percent. In 8 years under Democratic rule, they gained over 30%. It seems to me that deciding that the Democrats are better for them than Republicans is straightforward. And these numbers are relevant, how? Because Republicans favor tax and spending policies that favor focusing wealth in the entrepreneur class because they are the ones that give jobs to the rest of us. I guess that they are relevant if you really truly believe that Al Gore invented the Internet, Actually, do you really believe he claimed that? I do believe that he was part of the inspiration for Love Story and if you believe that the recessions of '82, '91, and '01 were all the Republicans' fault. No, their policies just exaperated the recessions and weakened the recoveries. But, I don't believe that a muli-sigma signal is just coincidence. If only we had Democratic Presidents, then I am sure that we would never have had recessions and the 1990's asset bubble would have last forever, eh? No, its just that Gore wouldn't have handled it by running deficits up to record levels in order to concentrate wealth in the upper income bracket because he felt they are the only ones who make the ecconomy go. And of course, I would also point out that it takes some pretty interesting temporal dynamics to use economic results from the Clinton years to explain voting patterns that have held for the past 30 years. Historically, blacks have done much better under Democrats. I can trace it with certainty as far back as the number go...to the '60s. And, that far back, there was some gratitude for the willingness of the Democratic leadership to give up the South in presidential elections for civil rights. Dan M. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Double Standards on Regional Bigotry
- Original Message - From: Gautam Mukunda [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 7:35 PM Subject: Re: Double Standards on Regional Bigotry --- Dan Minette [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: For example, while I know of racists in Minnesota, I cannot fathom a former Grand Wizard of the KKK getting the clear majority of white votes in a race for governor. I can't fathom it in New York either. Dan M. West Virginia? After which he would become President Pro Tem of the Senate and one of the most respected members of the Democratic Party? Byrd was Grand Wizzard? If Duke had just joined as a young man and repudiated the Klan, then I wouldn't have brought it up. And it's not as if the West Virginians have the excuse that he was running agaist Edwards, either. Can you give examples from, say the 80s on, of Byrd giving a wink and a nod to racist practices to keep the racist vote? If you can, then he's no better than the Republicans like Trent Lott that do that. Indeed, I wouldn't be surprised if, in West Virginia, that he had to pander to racists to at least some extent. The person I know best from West Virginia use to boast how his dad use to offer uppity blacks 20 dollars to leave town for the North. The same goes with Gephart's history. I'd be curious to see if Gephart still maintains his old ties. If he does, I'm shocked that his opponents don't point it out. But, I'll be happy to accept Byrd and Gephart as historical examples of the importance of pandering to racists in American politics. If you give me current data, I'll accept it as evidence of present examples too. BTW, West Virginia is not the North...even though it broke off from the Confederacy. Dan M. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Double Standards on Regional Bigotry
--- Dan Minette [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm not saying that Bush is a racist. He probably isn't. I'd put money on a straight up bet against him being an old fashioned Texas racist. But, Trent saying that things would have been better if Strom had won instead of Harry wasn't an accident. The only problem is that he got caught with the wrong people hearing it. Dan M. Sure - but the Republican Party removed him from power, very much to its credit. Jesse Himeytown Jackson is doing okay, by contrast. Al Tawana Brawley Sharpton is kowtowed to by Democrats every day. And, as I've already mentioned, Robert White N- Byrd is one of the leaders of the Democratic Party. The modern record of the Democratic Party is every bit as bad, despite the disgraceful heritage of Nixon's southern strategy. = Gautam Mukunda [EMAIL PROTECTED] Freedom is not free http://www.mukunda.blogspot.com __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the Signing Bonus Sweepstakes http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Double Standards on Regional Bigotry
--- Julia Thompson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Evangelical Protestants also tend to be the most bigoted, racist, extremist religious block. As a block, maybe. As individuals, certainly some are not. The person I know the best whom I'd characterize as being an evangelical protestant is *not* bigoted or racist or extremist. Julia Not as a block either. The empirical evidence is quite overwhelming that evangelicals are no more racist than any other religious group. From the evidence presented on this list, surely the most bigoted groups are the ones that The Fool is a member of... = Gautam Mukunda [EMAIL PROTECTED] Freedom is not free http://www.mukunda.blogspot.com __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the Signing Bonus Sweepstakes http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Double Standards on Regional Bigotry
--- Robert Seeberger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Aw c'mon Kevin. You have to recognize that there is absolutely no way Lott did not know of Thurmonds past. (Maybe with the exception of his fathering a child by his black maid). Its a matter of public record, and that little bit of history is extremely well known. xponent No, he definitely knew about the fathering, too. I mean, _I_ knew about the fathering - I've known for several years - long enough back that I don't remember when I learned about it. I'm not exactly an insider, so I'm sure Lott knew. Quite a few Republicans (myself included, but least important among them) were trying to get rid of Lott for years, because they knew that he was a racist and that he would eventually screw up and make it unmistakeable in public. = Gautam Mukunda [EMAIL PROTECTED] Freedom is not free http://www.mukunda.blogspot.com __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the Signing Bonus Sweepstakes http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Announcing brin-l-books
On Wed, 14 Jan 2004 22:40:22 +, William T Goodall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Following several months of development by me and lots of testing by the members of the Wednesday chat brin-l-books is probably ready for you all to try :) http://books.scattersoft.com An interactive web site where you can view and vote on books. The initial lists are compiled from lists of award winning books, books mentioned on list, and recommendations from the testers on the Wednesday chat. Good stuff, William, thanks for putting that together. How do we make suggestions? -- Doug ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
More Republican Poll Rigging from the Senate
http://atrios.blogspot.com/2004_01_11_atrios_archive.html#10741456573075 0569 This Poll (SideBar): http://www.senate.gov/~src/home/index.cfm Poll Rigging? Seraphiel writes in: I noticed something interesting about that poll... I was refreshing the page a few times and noticed that the second response, the one they wanted, was inreasing abnormally. So I checked the source code and saw this (html tags fixed with () to make it clearer) (input type=Radio name=pollanswer value=149 class=radio) The world is actually in worse condition, and Saddam should still be in power because the U.S. acted rashly.(br) (input type=Radio name=pollanswer value=148 class=radio) Better off now that the U.S. is upholding U.N. resolutions and holding Saddam accountable for his actions.(br) (input type=Radio name=pollanswer value=150 class=radio) The condition of the world is the same now as it was before the war in Iraq.(br) --- Notice here that the first and second answers have their pollanswer value in reverse order, 149 and then 148. So I checked Google's cache (praise be to Google) and found this: (input type=Radio name=pollanswer value=148 class=radio) The world is actually in worse condition, and Saddam should still be in power because the U.S. acted rashly.(br) (input type=Radio name=pollanswer value=149 class=radio) Better off now that the U.S. is upholding U.N. resolutions and holding Saddam accountable for his actions.(br) (input type=Radio name=pollanswer value=150 class=radio) The condition of the world is the same now as it was before the war in Iraq.(br) --- They simply switched which item each button votes for, so all the votes for the wrong answer end up being for the one they want. How, er, responsible of our elected representatives. -- If voting could really change things, it would be illegal. - Diebold Internal Memos ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
