Re: TiVo privacy
So are there any digital video recorders that don't require being hooked up to the phone and a subscription? Seems like someone would be making a killing on that kind of thing. Oh, and if you've got satelite TV, you're hooked up to the phone too. Doug ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Reviews for Mel Gibson's The Passion of the Christ
At 12:59 AM 2/4/04, Reggie Bautista wrote: Tom Beck wrote: I understand that most people cannot read either the Hebrew Tanakh or the Greek New Testament. I'm just saying that where I _do_ know that there is a mistranslation, I don't feel unjustified in pointing it out. Have you ever read any part of the New Jerusalem translation, the one that Tolkien was involved in? I have it on CD-ROM. I've always heard it's one of the most accurate translations out there, and I'm curious to see if that's true. That I hadn't heard. -- Ronn! :) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Reviews for Mel Gibson's The Passion of the Christ
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 2/3/2004 6:02:05 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: If a group of Jews make a movie about WWII in the year 3950 will there be Germans complaining that it sheds them in a bad light? What this in essence says is that the jews killed christ. Because of course the leaders of germany were in fact guilty of the Holocaust. No, it ays that it realy doen't make a difference one way or another. I have no opinion, but after the way He layed into the Jewih leaders, I wouldn't dout that they would copitulate to the deire of the Romans. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Reviews for Mel Gibson's The Passion of the Christ
At 01:54 AM 2/4/04, Jan Coffey wrote: --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 2/3/2004 6:02:05 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: If a group of Jews make a movie about WWII in the year 3950 will there be Germans complaining that it sheds them in a bad light? What this in essence says is that the jews killed christ. Because of course the leaders of germany were in fact guilty of the Holocaust. No, it ays that it realy doen't make a difference one way or another. I have no opinion, but after the way He layed into the Jewih leaders, I wouldn't dout that they would copitulate to the deire of the Romans. The question that is often posed, though, is why the Romans should capitulate to the desire of the Jews? It was those Jewish leaders who saw Jesus as a threat and wanted him put to death. However, they could not do so legally: only the Romans could dispense capital punishment. Blasphemy against the Jewish God, which they believed Jesus guilty of, while a capital offense in the Law of Moses, was not any sort of offense at all under Roman law. So those Jews (note that I am not saying all Jews were responsible, just as not all Arabs were responsible for 9/11) had to convince the Romans to find Jesus guilty of something which merited the death penalty under Roman law in order to have him executed. -- Ronn! :) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: TiVo privacy
At 02:19 AM 2/4/2004, you wrote: So are there any digital video recorders that don't require being hooked up to the phone and a subscription? Seems like someone would be making a killing on that kind of thing. Oh, and if you've got satelite TV, you're hooked up to the phone too. Doug Except, if you have satelite (sic) TV you don't have to be hooked up to the phone too. But I've only had it for four years so what do I know? Kevin T. - VRWC TRVTH ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Good and evil (was Re: Reviews for Mel Gibson's The Passion of the Christ)
Travis Edmunds wrote: Ah yes. You believe. I for one, believe that views like that, hold back any sort of honest discourse. I'm unclear on the antecedent of views like that. Theirs, or mine? Furthermore, to brand something evil, is to show either a narrow-minded approach to things, or a faithful belief in what you are spoon-fed. No room for it to be my point of view on what is good or evil? Prove to me however, that evil is a substantial thing and I may change my view of evil being a man-made concept. What would the nature of such a proof be? I believe that giving credibility to such views, by republishing them here, causes harm in the ways that you mention. They polarize the discussion, which pits two narrow-minded groups against each other, as they accept the spoon-fed simplifications offered by their side. Proof? I think it is self-evident that treating important issues as black and white is bad. Nick -- Nick Arnett Director, Business Intelligence Services LiveWorld Inc. Phone/fax: (408) 904-7198 [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Reviews for Mel Gibson's The Passion of the Christ
- Original Message - From: Ronn!Blankenship [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2004 2:58 AM Subject: Re: Reviews for Mel Gibson's The Passion of the Christ At 01:54 AM 2/4/04, Jan Coffey wrote: --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 2/3/2004 6:02:05 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: If a group of Jews make a movie about WWII in the year 3950 will there be Germans complaining that it sheds them in a bad light? What this in essence says is that the jews killed christ. Because of course the leaders of germany were in fact guilty of the Holocaust. No, it ays that it realy doen't make a difference one way or another. I have no opinion, but after the way He layed into the Jewih leaders, I wouldn't dout that they would copitulate to the deire of the Romans. The question that is often posed, though, is why the Romans should capitulate to the desire of the Jews? It was those Jewish leaders who saw Jesus as a threat and wanted him put to death. However, they could not do so legally: only the Romans could dispense capital punishment. Blasphemy against the Jewish God, which they believed Jesus guilty of, while a capital offense in the Law of Moses, was not any sort of offense at all under Roman law. So those Jews (note that I am not saying all Jews were responsible, just as not all Arabs were responsible for 9/11) had to convince the Romans to find Jesus guilty of something which merited the death penalty under Roman law in order to have him executed. Raymond Brown did an excellent historical analysis of this question in The Death of the Messiah. It turns out that there was a very good working relationship between Pilate and Caiaphas. There were a number of false prophets at the time, and the two of them had a variety of ways of dealing with them. Sometimes they were whipped and sent out of town, sometimes they were crucified, sometimes they were small enough to be ignored. So, the interaction between the leaders as depicted in scripture does have verisimilitude. Dan M. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Reviews for Mel Gibson's The Passion of the Christ
William T Goodall wrote: The fundamentalists don't think about it critically. To me, that's a bit of a tautology. Failing to think critically is the definition of fundamentalism, whether the subject is Christianity, capitalism or programming. And the Reformation was about allowing literalist asshats to make their own scriptural interpretations without the intervention of elitist scholars and their 'interpretations'. Literalist asshats? I think the Reformation was a rebellion against the kleptocrats of the Vatican, who had figured out how to take advantage of their authority. Human systems seems to often follow a pattern of growing large based on a worldview, concentrating power, being corrupted by those who have the power, then falling apart as a result of a relatively small innovation that obsoletes the original worldview. The worldview before the Reformation was the great chain of being, which concentrated power in the Church of Rome, who began took advantage of their power, and whose undoing was the discovery of feedback systems. And America is populated by the descendants of cultists who left the Old World because their asshat versions of Christianity weren't welcome. Asshat? Asshat? What is asshat? Nick -- Nick Arnett Director, Business Intelligence Services LiveWorld Inc. Phone/fax: (408) 904-7198 [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Reviews for Mel Gibson's The Passion of the Christ
John D. Giorgis wrote: But Nick, you totally missed the real evil that The Fool was spouting here. The Fool was essentially tarring anyone who happens to be one of his chosen targets with the Anti-Semite brush. The Fool wasn't furthering the cause of a brood of vipers by repeating their claims. He recognizes that the vast bulk of humanity sees them for what they were. Rather, he was trying to cast his chosen enemies into that pit of vipers alongside them. That's the polarization that I reject. And I think that's their cause -- demagoguery, plain and clear. Nick -- Nick Arnett Director, Business Intelligence Services LiveWorld Inc. Phone/fax: (408) 904-7198 [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Reviews for Mel Gibson's The Passion of the Christ
Folks, The question that is often posed, though, is why the Romans should capitulate to the desire of the Jews? It was those Jewish leaders who saw Jesus as a threat and wanted him put to death. However, they could not do so legally: only the Romans could dispense capital punishment. Blasphemy against the Jewish God, which they believed Jesus guilty of, while a capital offense in the Law of Moses, was not any sort of offense at all under Roman law. So those Jews (note that I am not saying all Jews were responsible, just as not all Arabs were responsible for 9/11) had to convince the Romans to find Jesus guilty of something which merited the death penalty under Roman law in order to have him executed. To the Romans, Caesar was a god, so while blasphemy against the Jewish God was no crime, blasphemy against Caeser was. Rome also didn't take kindly to the appearance of new kings. By portraying Jesus to the local Roman authorities as the self-proclaimed King of the Jews and the son of God, he became a threat to Roman political and religious power and subject to their death penalty. All of which, to many Christians, is a little beside the point: neither the Romans nor the Jews are solely to blame for his death, which was part of God's plan to bridge the gap between God and man. If you're looking for what or who blame for Jesus' death, blame the gap. Of course, by putting the foregoing paragraph before this august company, I realize that I leave myself open to accusations of being a dupe. Oh well, call me a fool for Christ. If you disagree with my *beliefs,* that's your prerogative, but I don't really want to subject Brin-L to that particular debate at this time. If I have made factual errors (Caeser was /not/ a god, etc.), then I stand ready to be corrected. Have fun, Dave David M. Land[EMAIL PROTECTED] 408-551-0427 ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: TiVo privacy
From: CJ Kucera [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] They claim that actual customer data is separated out from the aggregate statistics they use for that kind of reporting. According to a buddy who has a Tivo, this explained clearly in the Tivo privacy policy. It has also been confirmed by independent hackers who have examined what was being sent back to Tivo. The infomation is only sent back with a zip code, nothing else. And you can opt out with a phone call. So probably not that big a deal. Just a little disconcerting at first, I guess... - jmh ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Good and evil (was Re: Reviews for Mel Gibson's The Passion of the Christ)
From: Nick Arnett [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Good and evil (was Re: Reviews for Mel Gibson's The Passion of the Christ) Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 07:51:21 -0800 Travis Edmunds wrote: Ah yes. You believe. I for one, believe that views like that, hold back any sort of honest discourse. I'm unclear on the antecedent of views like that. Theirs, or mine? Yours of course. After all you said you believe. Furthermore, to brand something evil, is to show either a narrow-minded approach to things, or a faithful belief in what you are spoon-fed. No room for it to be my point of view on what is good or evil? There's plenty of room for that Nick. But when your beliefs interfere with the open discourse of this forum, you become just as bad as those you despise. Furthermore, I hesitate to think that the cause of religiously fanatical hate mongering is being furthered by someone quoting so-called evil comments. Especially on this forum. For that matter, we probably shouldn't talk about anything other than good wholesome sci-fi, with no more than an action based plot which never deviates from space battles, and which certainly doesn't bring forth controversial ideas. It's safer that way right? Look, I'm not being argumentative just to be argumentative. It's just that I vehemently disagree with what you said, and I really do think that views like yours really do hold back, thinking, on any sort of acceptable level here on this forum. Prove to me however, that evil is a substantial thing and I may change my view of evil being a man-made concept. What would the nature of such a proof be? I believe that giving credibility to such views, by republishing them here, causes harm in the ways that you mention. They polarize the discussion, which pits two narrow-minded groups against each other, as they accept the spoon-fed simplifications offered by their side. How does one give credibility to such views in the way that you mention? Other than these people doing a google search for their own quotes and finding them here, there is no basis for what you say. And when that particular issue comes face to face with what we are allowed and not allowed to talk about here, I think it gets greatly overshadowed. How in Gods name (pun intended) can we put a lid on what we discuss? For surely, that is where your original comments lead. Proof? I think it is self-evident that treating important issues as black and white is bad. Nick It's been my experience that nothing in this world is black white. Combine that with the fact that you treated this issue as black white, and you have an augument on your hands. I'm sorry if I'm offending anyone; especially you Nick. But I honestly can't believe how closed-minded people can be at times. It's amazing. -Travis _ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/bcommpgmarket=en-caRU=http%3a%2f%2fjoin.msn.com%2f%3fpage%3dmisc%2fspecialoffers%26pgmarket%3den-ca ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Reviews for Mel Gibson's The Passion of the Christ
On 4 Feb 2004, at 4:00 pm, Nick Arnett wrote: Asshat? Asshat? What is asshat? http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=asshat One who has their head up their ass. Thus wearing their ass as a hat. Asshat -- William T Goodall Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/ I have always wished that my computer would be as easy to use as my telephone. My wish has come true. I no longer know how to use my telephone. - Bjarne Stroustrup ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Good and evil (was Re: Reviews for Mel Gibson's The Passion ofthe Christ)
From: Travis Edmunds [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Good and evil (was Re: Reviews for Mel Gibson's The Passion ofthe Christ) Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 12:58:34 -0330 white, and you have an *augument* on your hands. Before Ron gets ahold of me, let me correct that: ARGUMENT. -Travis oops Edmunds God is a comedian playing to an audience too afraid to laugh - Voltaire _ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/viruspgmarket=en-caRU=http%3a%2f%2fjoin.msn.com%2f%3fpage%3dmisc%2fspecialoffers%26pgmarket%3den-ca ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Best Superbowl Ever! wasRE: Janet Jackson s Right Breast Provoke s Outrage
No one has seemed to comment about how this was the best super bowl ever. You got Premium Football, Superbowl commercials, MTV obnoxiousness, some hip-hoppsta' showing off their custom SUV's (their rides), and a bit of celebrity TA All in one show! I mean...Come on! What more could a guy want on TV! It was the best ever!!! (oh yeah.. The game was good too!) Nerd From Hell ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Reviews for Mel Gibson's The Passion of the Christ
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 2/3/2004 6:02:05 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: If a group of Jews make a movie about WWII in the year 3950 will there be Germans complaining that it sheds them in a bad light? What this in essence says is that the jews killed christ. Because of course the leaders of germany were in fact guilty of the Holocaust. If you are implying that I am a denier then you are so very wrong. My point was solely that just becouse a subgroup does something wrong it is not then justified to blame the whole group, and the group's decendents. However, I will say that I believe it is unhealthy for a society to remember and celebrate when somehting bad happens. If we were for instance to mark the day of 9-11 as a solum holiday, make movies about it for 70 years, and teach our children how we were wronged at that time, we might breed a nation of anti-Arab, anti-Islamics who were stuck in a cycle of their own victimization. Sometimes forgeting (and forgiving) IS the choice with wisdom. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Best Superbowl Ever! wasRE: Janet Jacksons Right Breast Provoke s Outrage
From: Julia Thompson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] and a bit of celebrity TA I not only missed the T, I missed A as well? Why didn't anyone mention *that*? Well, there was the streaker. Not that it was shown on screen for very long or anything. I'm sure that A could be seen, at least in person... grin - jmh ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Weekly Chat Reminder
This is just a quick reminder that the Wednesday Brin-L chat is scheduled for 3 PM Eastern/2 PM Central time in the US, or 7 PM Greenwich time, so it started about an hour ago. There will probably be somebody there to talk to for at least eight hours after the start time. See my instruction page for help getting there: http://www.brin-l.org/brinmud.html __ Steve Sloan . Huntsville, Alabama = [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brin-L list pages .. http://www.brin-l.org Science Fiction-themed online store . http://www.sloan3d.com/store Chmeee's 3D Objects http://www.sloan3d.com/chmeee 3D and Drawing Galleries .. http://www.sloansteady.com Software Science Fiction, Science, and Computer Links Science fiction scans . http://www.sloan3d.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Good and evil (was Re: Reviews for Mel Gibson's The Passionofthe Christ)
From: Julia Thompson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Good and evil (was Re: Reviews for Mel Gibson's The Passionofthe Christ) Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 14:19:44 -0600 Travis Edmunds wrote: From: Travis Edmunds [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Good and evil (was Re: Reviews for Mel Gibson's The Passion ofthe Christ) Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 12:58:34 -0330 white, and you have an *augument* on your hands. Before Ron gets ahold of me, let me correct that: ARGUMENT. Ah, so you didn't mean augment. I'm not sure what having an augment on my hands would be like anyway. Unless it's kind of like having 2 babies when you'd originally planned to just have 1 Julia I guess it could be like that.lol -Travis hindsight is always 20/20 Edmunds _ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/viruspgmarket=en-caRU=http%3a%2f%2fjoin.msn.com%2f%3fpage%3dmisc%2fspecialoffers%26pgmarket%3den-ca ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Reviews for Mel Gibson's The Passion of the Christ
Blasphemy against the Jewish God, which they believed Jesus guilty of, while a capital offense in the Law of Moses, was not any sort of offense at all under Roman law. So those Jews (note that I am not saying all Jews were responsible, just as not all Arabs were responsible for 9/11) had to convince the Romans to find Jesus guilty of something which merited the death penalty under Roman law in order to have him executed. Except no death penalty for this had ever been carried out. It was said that a Sanhedrin that ordered one execution in 70 years was a bloodthirsty court. What _could_ be done under Jewish law and what _was_ done were often quite different. In any case, this is irrelevant, since what is at stake in the whole issue of Gibson's movie is not what the truth was (hard to determine), but what too many people have taken the truth to be over the millennia: that ALL Jews are guilty of killing Jesus and that therefore ANY Jew can be attacked and even murdered in retribution. And, over the millennia, too many Jews to count HAVE been attacked and murdered. And Jews feel that we are STILL at risk of being attacked and murdered. This is not to say that Gibson should not have made his movie. But for him not to be aware of Jewish sensitivities in this matter, which I do not find at all an overreaction, is remarkably insensitive of him. Given his association with his father's extremely right-wing Catholic sect, I think the onus is on him to prove that he's not anti-Semitic. Tom Beck www.mercerjewishsingles.org I always knew I'd see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed I'd see the last. - Dr Jerry Pournelle ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Reviews for Mel Gibson's The Passion of the Christ
Sometimes forgeting (and forgiving) IS the choice with wisdom. A) Judaism teaches that only the wronged party may forgive. I can't forgive the Nazis for the Holocaust because I was not a victim. B) I believe very strongly that forgetting the Holocaust would be a further betrayal of its victims. I also don't think that remembering the Holocaust in any way is a negative. A remarkably high percentage of Holocaust survivors went on to lead fulfilling lives after World War II. They married, had families, built careers and lives. Did they have problems adjusting? Did they suffer some guilt, some trauma, nightmares? Of course. But they did not let the horror completely ruin their triumph at LIVING when Hitler tried to kill them. Tom Beck www.mercerjewishsingles.org I always knew I'd see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed I'd see the last. - Dr Jerry Pournelle ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Best Superbowl Ever! wasRE: Janet Jackson s Right Breast Provoke s Outrage
I don't think it was the best Super Bowl ever, although it was one of the best ever. I'd put Giants-Bills as the best (besides the exciting finish, and the buildup - during the beginning of what would later be Gulf War I, the game was extremely well played - neither team committed a turnover, the only time that has happened in a Super Bowl). Tom Beck www.mercerjewishsingles.org I always knew I'd see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed I'd see the last. - Dr Jerry Pournelle ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Reviews for Mel Gibson's The Passion of the Christ
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Reviews for Mel Gibson's The Passion of the Christ Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 19:12:20 EST Are you honestly saying that the unquestionably anti-Semitic statements issued by these unquestionably anti-Semitic organizations in response to Gibson's movie AREN'T evil? No. I'm saying that in relation to Nicks comments, the concept of evil appeared to be the typical ideological one. And I reject that. I reject it like I would water in my lungs. It isn't based upon concrete fact. It's a purely unfounded, abstract concept. I tend towards the concept of a man-made evil. A term we use to define something that goes against our own morality. Of course one must understand that individual or perhaps more accurately regional morality, differs from person to person, and from place to place. We are after all the products of our own environments; at least to a fairly large extent anyway. Are you honestly claiming that labeling these statements evil is somehow more evil than the statements themselves? Now that's an interesting question. First of all, is it even possible for something to be more evil than something else? I can't appropriately answer your question however, until I know where you stand on the concept of evil. (Your last sentance doesn't quite fit the bill) How can you have an honest discourse with Nazis? Are they not human? All you can do is label them for the filth they are and try to keep others from being infected by their evil. And yes, it's clearly evil. And of course it's man-made. People do evil things. That's precisely what evil is. Tom Beck What's that saying? An eye for an eye makes you blind. And when you're groping around in the dark, it's easy to tumble into the abyss. Something like that anyway. Look. I accept the fact that what the Nazi's done during the second World War was WRONG. The Holocaust was WRONG. But I know that the only reason I think it was wrong, is due to my own morality. Also I have this inherent belief that life is precious, and needless loss of life, as in the case of the Holocaust, is macabre to say the least. But I sincerely doubt that I would have a problem with it if I were born and raised a Nazi. Do you understand where I am coming from? I'm looking at things as objectively as I can, to find some fundamental truths in this thing we call life. Why? Because I have this.integrity if you will, to seek truth, no matter harsh that truth may be. I absolutely reject any and all assumption sets, and replace them with these truths that hold as much truth as I can find. It's how I remain sane. So I ask you to understand my viewpoint, and to not quote God or any concepts of that nature to me. Unless of course you can prove the existence of these things. -Travis _ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/featurespgmarket=en-caRU=http%3a%2f%2fjoin.msn.com%2f%3fpage%3dmisc%2fspecialoffers%26pgmarket%3den-ca ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Good and evil (was Re: Reviews for Mel Gibson's The Passion of the Christ)
At 03:49 PM 2/4/04, Travis Edmunds wrote: -Travis hindsight is always 20/20 Edmunds Only if you wear size 40 pants. -- Ronn! :) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Reviews for Mel Gibson's The Passion of the Christ
At 03:51 PM 2/4/04, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Blasphemy against the Jewish God, which they believed Jesus guilty of, while a capital offense in the Law of Moses, was not any sort of offense at all under Roman law. So those Jews (note that I am not saying all Jews were responsible, just as not all Arabs were responsible for 9/11) had to convince the Romans to find Jesus guilty of something which merited the death penalty under Roman law in order to have him executed. Except no death penalty for this had ever been carried out. It was said that a Sanhedrin that ordered one execution in 70 years was a bloodthirsty court. What _could_ be done under Jewish law and what _was_ done were often quite different. In any case, this is irrelevant, since what is at stake in the whole issue of Gibson's movie is not what the truth was (hard to determine), but what too many people have taken the truth to be over the millennia: that ALL Jews are guilty of killing Jesus and that therefore ANY Jew can be attacked and even murdered in retribution. And, over the millennia, too many Jews to count HAVE been attacked and murdered. And Jews feel that we are STILL at risk of being attacked and murdered. This is not to say that Gibson should not have made his movie. But for him not to be aware of Jewish sensitivities in this matter, which I do not find at all an overreaction, is remarkably insensitive of him. Given his association with his father's extremely right-wing Catholic sect, I think the onus is on him to prove that he's not anti-Semitic. Does the movie make that claim? (That ALL Jews are guilty, etc.) Or is that judgement in the mind of the viewer? -- Ronn! :) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Reviews for Mel Gibson's The Passion of the Christ
From: Robert Seeberger [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Reviews for Mel Gibson's The Passion of the Christ Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 18:52:09 -0600 Geez Travis, of course Evil is a man made concept. Are we not men? xponent It Lives Maru rob I didn't think it was that clear-cut for most people Robert. What, with some of the comments tossed about. -Travis _ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Fwd: Exploding toilets!
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/staffordshire/3457965.stm ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
SCOUTED: The entertainment industry and your civil rights
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,110344,00.html The Girl Scouts were sued for singing Happy Birthday without paying license fees. Disney got Congress to extend the standard term of copyright by 20 years. (Mickey Mouse was about to enter the public domain). Book publishers demanded that public libraries begin charging borrowers. A television executive said fast-forwarding through taped commercials was stealing the programming. As judges and politicians try to understand the confusing world of the Internet, the organizations that protect the interests of the entertainment industry are making a legal land grab. -- Ronn! :) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Reviews for Mel Gibson's The Passion of the Christ
At 05:40 PM 2/4/04, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Does the movie make that claim? (That ALL Jews are guilty, etc.) Or is that judgement in the mind of the viewer? Again, you're completely missing the point. Whether or not the movie blames all the Jews for the death of Jesus, over two millennia millions of Christians HAVE blamed all Jews and exacted horrible retribution on uncountable tens of thousands of innocent Jews. For Gibson to make a movie based on the same Gospels that have inflamed these vile and vicious murders and not to explicitly renounce the idea of blaming all the Jews is extremely irresponsible. Because I guarantee you, there will be anti-Semites who will see this movie and trumpet its content as justification for their Jew-hatred. So IYO no one can ever make a movie about the life of Jesus -- where for Christians the main point of the life of Jesus is His death and resurrection and its meaning for us today -- because some people use the fact that some Jews who lived at the time were involved in his death to justify hatred of and violence against all Jews today? If that is not what you are saying, what do you think would be an acceptable way of portraying the account given in the Gospels while staying true to that account? -- Ronn! :) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Reviews for Mel Gibson's The Passion of the Christ
- Original Message - From: Travis Edmunds [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2004 4:59 PM Subject: Re: Reviews for Mel Gibson's The Passion of the Christ Now that's an interesting question. First of all, is it even possible for something to be more evil than something else? Now that is a ridiculous question! I think it is easily acceptable to state as a fact that Hitler, Pol Pot, or Saddam Hussein were all much more evil than the B#tch who dumped me 10 days before our wedding and stole 4 grand from me. Its not just a question of scale. AFAIK the B#tch never killed a single soul. The kid who tried to beat me up when I was 12 in order to in order to improve his bad ass cred just doesn't rate. There *are* greater and lesser evils. Stealing a cookie out of the cookie jar cannot compare to rape. xponent For The Record Maru rob ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Exploding toilets!
- Original Message - From: Ronn!Blankenship [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Brin-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2004 5:07 PM Subject: Fwd: Exploding toilets! http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/staffordshire/3457965.stm So..that would be British Standard? xponent Loo Cifer Maru rob ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Reviews for Mel Gibson's The Passion of the Christ
From: Julia Thompson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Are we not men? No, we're Devo. Dang! Beat me to it! Obligatory second line. - jmh ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: TiVo privacy
Besides, if that happened, I've just build my own PVR (heck, TiVo is running a Linux distro, so its all open source at the root anyways..) But of course in that case you'd be a criminal, ..; Perhaps someone on this list who lives in Australia can confirm or deny the claim of my nephew, who lives in Sydney: that already it is illegal in Australia to use a TiVo or home built PVR to skip commercials. Rather than think of a commercial as an invitation that you may accept or reject as you choose, a commercial is legally considered a product such that if you skip it, you are a thief. -- Robert J. Chassell Rattlesnake Enterprises http://www.rattlesnake.com GnuPG Key ID: 004B4AC8 http://www.teak.cc [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Br!n: LotR and Conservatives
In a message dated 2/3/2004 11:22:50 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: provided the above list of policies, all of which violate that so-called fundamental principle. Say what you will about whether or not you agree with them, but these policies certainly do not fit David Brin's partisan mockery of Republican Party that I quoted above. OK point taken. The president and his party have proposed some things. I do not think Republicans are unfeeling monsters. Bush's education initiatives are in my opinion wrong headed but that is the nature of political debate. Republicans clearly have compassion and concern but that their policies do not reflect these. I actually think Bush is sincere about these things but they do not receive appropriate financial priorities to be enacted. They become cynical excuses when not backed by action (money). ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Reviews for Mel Gibson's The Passion of the Christ
In a message dated 2/4/2004 7:22:59 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: So IYO no one can ever make a movie about the life of Jesus -- where for Christians the main point of the life of Jesus is His death and resurrection and its meaning for us today -- because some people use the fact that some Jews who lived at the time were involved in his death to justify hatred of and violence against all Jews today? If that is not what you are saying, what do you think would be an acceptable way of portraying the account given in the Gospels while staying true to that account? So without seeing the movie it is really impossible to tell how this will play out. It will depend how the jews are portrayed (evil or indifferent, hard or cruel). it will depend on how they are dressed. The thing that first raised concerns was the choice of the basic text Gibbson said he was using as the basis of the movie ( I believe a 17th century work that was particularly virulent in its anti-semitism). Remember that most of the passion plays in europe used horrific steriotypes of jews (long noses big pointy hats). Gibbson went on the attack as soon as there was any questioning of his intent (much of which came from within catholocism). He would not allow jews to see the movie when he first screened and has portrayed himself as the victim of persecution (it will be interesting to see what he does on 20/20 tomorrow with Diane Sawyer). I think this will be another puff job. So it is possible to do a story where jews are seen as favoring or even instigating his death wihtout implicating all jews (show that the romans wanted to happen as well, show that there were jews who were against his death, show the jews as real people not stereotypes). ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Reviews for Mel Gibson's The Passion of the Christ
At 08:38 PM 2/4/2004 EST [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The holocaust is another matter. The germans who did this (and there can be no doubt that the germans did this) You anti-Germanic bigot. :-) JDG ___ John D. Giorgis - [EMAIL PROTECTED] The liberty we prize is not America's gift to the world, it is God's gift to humanity. - George W. Bush 1/29/03 ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Reviews for Mel Gibson's The Passion of the Christ
At 08:51 PM 2/4/2004 EST [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So it is possible to do a story where jews are seen as favoring or even instigating his death wihtout implicating all jews (show that the romans wanted to happen as well, show that there were jews who were against his death, show the jews as real people not stereotypes). Anyone care to make a wager on whether or not Mel Gibson will portray some Jews as being against Jesus' death in the movie? I can guarantee that he has done so. JDG ___ John D. Giorgis - [EMAIL PROTECTED] The liberty we prize is not America's gift to the world, it is God's gift to humanity. - George W. Bush 1/29/03 ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: TiVo privacy
I saw the following article in one of the tech newsletters I get, and while I have no other knowledge of the product they are discussing, the abstract makes it sound like it might be of relevance to this thread: http://www.newsforge.com/article.pl?sid=04/02/03/1542253 -- Ronn! :) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Reviews for Mel Gibson's The Passion of the Christ
[FYI, your messages are still arriving here all run together . . . ] At 07:51 PM 2/4/04, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 2/4/2004 7:22:59 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: So IYO no one can ever make a movie about the life of Jesus -- where for Christians the main point of the life of Jesus is His death and resurrection and its meaning for us today -- because some people use the fact that some Jews who lived at the time were involved in his death to justify hatred of and violence against all Jews today? If that is not what you are saying, what do you think would be an acceptable way of portraying the account given in the Gospels while staying true to that account? So without seeing the movie it is really impossible to tell how this will play out. I agree. It will depend how the jews are portrayed (evil or indifferent, hard or cruel). it will depend on how they are dressed. The thing that first raised concerns was the choice of the basic text Gibbson said he was using as the basis of the movie ( I believe a 17th century work that was particularly virulent in its anti-semitism). Remember that most of the passion plays in europe used horrific steriotypes of jews (long noses big pointy hats). Actually, I don't remember those personally. Gibbson went on the attack as soon as there was any questioning of his intent (much of which came from within catholocism). He would not allow jews to see the movie when he first screened and has portrayed himself as the victim of persecution (it will be interesting to see what he does on 20/20 tomorrow with Diane Sawyer). I think this will be another puff job. So it is possible to do a story where jews are seen as favoring or even instigating his death wihtout implicating all jews (show that the romans wanted to happen as well, show that there were jews who were against his death, show the jews as real people not stereotypes). Not surprisingly, I agree, since I think that is accurate. -- Ronn! :) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
The West Wing
If anyone is watching tonight's episode, you might be interested to know that Toby's second meeting with Sen. Heinz was filmed ou the steps of the Bureau of Labor Statistics Building just last week. JDG ___ John D. Giorgis - [EMAIL PROTECTED] The liberty we prize is not America's gift to the world, it is God's gift to humanity. - George W. Bush 1/29/03 ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Reviews for Mel Gibson's The Passion of the Christ
Anyone care to make a wager on whether or not Mel Gibson will portray some Jews as being against Jesus' death in the movie? I can guarantee that he has done so. I would take that wager. How many of the Apostles were Jewish? I know of at least two... Damon. = Damon Agretto [EMAIL PROTECTED] Qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum. http://www.geocities.com/garrand.geo/index.html Now Building: __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Reviews for Mel Gibson's The Passion of the Christ
So IYO no one can ever make a movie about the life of Jesus -- where for Christians the main point of the life of Jesus is His death and resurrection and its meaning for us today -- because some people use the fact that some Jews who lived at the time were involved in his death to justify hatred of and violence against all Jews today? I never said no one can; people can do anything they want. BUT, if you are going to make a movie about the death of Jesus, you need to take care NOT to give any ammunition to anti-Semites. Because Jews HAVE been murdered over the past two millennia because they were blamed for rejecting and killing Jesus. To ignore that is to take on some complicity for the hatred and violence. I think Christians need to face up to this and not try to argue it away or pretend it didn't happen or deny their responsibility for two millennia of violence. Because, whatever Christians may think of their religion as being a religion of love and peace, to Jews it's a religion of hatred and murder. And yes, I know, it's as wrong for Jews to blame all Christians for the violence as it is for Christians to blame all Jews for the death of Jesus. But when you're a tiny helpless minority being persecuted and hunted down and burned alive in synagogues and forced to convert, it's not easy to be fair. To be honest, if a Jew distrusts Christians, I'm not sure there's much of a consequence, as there simply aren't enough of us to do anything about it. When Christians preach hatred of Jews (and I realize that these days most no longer do this, but the damage has been done), the consequences are and have been horrific. Christians should feel shame and do true penitence about this; is that really so much to ask? If that is not what you are saying, what do you think would be an acceptable way of portraying the account given in the Gospels while staying true to that account? Why not make a movie about two millennia of Christians murdering Jews? If a Jew did that, wouldn't Christians be stirred up and angry? Tom Beck www.mercerjewishsingles.org I always knew I'd see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed I'd see the last. - Dr Jerry Pournelle ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Mice produce sperm from monkeys
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/3458533.stm Mice have been used to produce viable monkey sperm using tissue transplanted from the testes of macaques. The US scientists involved say their work might one day help to conserve animals that are facing extinction. It might also be possible to grow human sperm in mice, although the team agree this would be a controversial move. The researchers, from the universities of Pennsylvania and California, report their studies in the latest issue of the journal Biology of Reproduction. In 2002, the same team produced goat and pig sperm from mice. It was the first time that sperm had been produced outside the original animal. Testis transplant The latest procedure involves transplanting a tiny amount of testicular tissue from an immature rhesus macaque monkey under the skin of a lab mouse. Ina Dobrinski, of the University of Pennsylvania, and colleagues transplanted the tissue into mice that had deficient immune systems, so that it would not be rejected. We started this work with primate testis after we had success with domestic animals, Professor Dobrinski told BBC News Online. After seven months, the testes grafts on the backs of the mice were seen to produce viable sperm. Grafting immature testis tissue appears to work because the host mouse had been castrated, Dobrinski says. This boosts levels of the brain hormones that switch on sperm production, so the young tissue grows rapidly. The technique is expected to work on adult testis grafts, too. The Pennsylvania group will now try the procedure on testis tissue from domestic cats, as a trial for endangered big cats that rarely survive to reproductive age in captivity. The technique could also produce offspring from other endangered species or valuable livestock, even if only immature males exist. The latest work with primates will help reduce the number of such animals used in laboratories. Of mice and men The main benefits we see are that this approach provides a system to study and manipulate primate spermatogenesis, thereby minimising the need for experimentation in primates, Professor Dobrinski says. In theory, human testis tissue grafted on to mice could produce sperm. The technique may also provide a way of testing toxins or male contraceptive drugs on sperm development. Prepubescent boys undergoing treatment for cancer that will render them sterile could benefit, Professor Dobrinski suggest. Their immature testis tissue could be removed prior to treatment and transplanted on to mice for sperm production. Theoretically, it could enable a boy to become a father before he reached puberty. xponent Chimera Creampies Maru rob ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Br!n: LotR and Conservatives
John D. Giorgis wrote: ... No Child Left Behind ... Faith-Based Initiatives ... AIDS Fund Oh yeah we heard about that last year. Where is the money? Partial-Birth Abortion Ban ... Promotion of Abstinence-Based Education ... Bob: I was not providing a list of policies that you would agree with. Rather, David Brin made the following pretty baseless assertion: That the current GOP is dominated by kleptocratic frat boys with NO other agenda but stealing 4 TRILLION DOLLARS from our grandchildren. You will find NO policy of theirs that violates this fundamental principle. Not one. I provided the above list of policies, all of which violate that so-called fundamental principle. Say what you will about whether or not you agree with them, but these policies certainly do not fit David Brin's partisan mockery of Republican Party that I quoted above. JDG You are right, these are not the policies of kleptocratic frat boys. These appear to be the policies of the social and religious conservatives who are periodically thrown a bone by the frat boys. (Except for the AIDS fund, which liberals would also support.) Since Brin specifically said dominated by ... frat boys, this is not a very powerful refutation. : ) ---David ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Reviews for Mel Gibson's The Passion of the Christ
- Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2004 7:38 PM Subject: Re: Reviews for Mel Gibson's The Passion of the Christ In a message dated 2/4/2004 1:10:55 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: If you are implying that I am a denier then you are so very wrong. My point was solely that just becouse a subgroup does something wrong it is not then justified to blame the whole group, and the group's decendents. I hope you are correct but if so your statement wa poorly phrase. I would point out that there is a different scale of action here as well. If in fact some Jews killed Jesus or conspired with the Romans to do it or did not try to stop it that is different. I do not want to offend anyone but to the Jews of the time Jesus was one man. If some jews did have culpability in his death they did not think they were killing god. Indeed, Raymond Brown, the Catholic priest and scripture scholar that I've been quoting stated in the Death of the Messiah that it was perfectly reasonable for a devout Jew of the time to consider some of the actions of Jesus as blasphamous. There were a few other relavant things that he recalled. First, the criticisms should be viewed as an internal conflict. Jesus and his disciples were all devout Jews. It was after the fall of the Temple that the split became permanant...the Jerusalem church still strongly identified with their Jewish roots until then. Given that, one can view the criticism as consistant with that of other prophets. Scriptures are full of strong criticism of the people of Israel by the prophets. Jerusalem, you killer of prophets is in that context. Second, the polemics in scripture are really quite mild, considering the time. Much worse has been written in internal disputes. Take for example, the visciousness of the arguement between the Essenes and the Jewish leaders; or the deadly violence between various Jewish factions before Rome took over. The real nasty stuff wasn't a part of Christianity untill the mid-second century. (That means one can reject the anti-Semitism as inconsistent with the foundation documents instead of inherent in those documents.) Third, the phrase, let his blood be on us and our children is a ritualistic declaration of a death sentence from the time. There is absolutely no precident for it to apply to the nth generationexcept perhaps for Adam and Eve, and that's on all of humanity. Fourth, (this isn't from him but from a prof. of mine) there is the double meaning of the word used for Jew in Greek; it is also the word used for Judean. It made little sense for Jesus to complain about the Jews to his followers, who were also Jews. But, it did make sense for him to contrast them with the Judeans, since they were Galaleans. Almost all Christian churches have publically proclaimed that the historical anti-Semitism was both wrong and against the spirit of the gospels. The gospel's complaints about the people of Jerusalem should be seen as part of a long tradition of God's people being called to task for their behavior. The murderous anti-Semitism of many Christians over the years should be seen as an example of Christians turning their back on God. Dan M. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Mice produce sperm from monkeys
At 09:11 PM 2/4/04, Robert Seeberger wrote: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/3458533.stm Mice have been used to produce viable monkey sperm So? Sheep have been used to produce sperm from lonely humans for centuries . . . Dunno If They Were Viable Or Not, And Frankly I'm Not Going To Investigate Maru -- Ronn! :) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Mice produce sperm from monkeys
In a message dated 2/4/2004 8:53:12 PM US Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: So? Sheep have been used to produce sperm from lonely humans for centuries . . . Dunno If They Were Viable Or Not, And Frankly I'm Not Going To Investigate Maru Viabull? If it was a man and a sheep, I don't know viabull would be the result. Vilyehm Teighlore -- Do the mice smoke afterwards? ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Mice produce sperm from monkeys
At 10:05 PM 2/4/04, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 2/4/2004 8:53:12 PM US Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: So? Sheep have been used to produce sperm from lonely humans for centuries . . . Dunno If They Were Viable Or Not, And Frankly I'm Not Going To Investigate Maru Viabull? If it was a man and a sheep, I don't know viabull would be the result. Vilyehm Teighlore -- Do the mice smoke afterwards? I dunno, but we sure took this discussion to a low level quickly . . . -- Ronn! :) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Mice produce sperm from monkeys
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -- Do the mice smoke afterwards? Only if they were doing it too fast. Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Oil reserves revision: another one!
- Original Message - From: Dan M. [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2004 10:24 PM Subject: Re: Oil reserves revision: another one! - Original Message - From: Erik Reuter [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2004 12:10 PM Subject: Oil reserves revision: another one! Dan, I'm curious if you have any thoughts on the oil reserves revisions that have recently occurred. First Shell, and now El Paso, both lowering reserve estimates significantly. Is oil getting harder to find or extract? Well, it always gets harder to extract and find, but we continuously get better at both. Over the last 20 years, the cost to find and extract oil has fallen, so our the improvement in our abilities to find and extract have been outpacing the added difficulties. Were the engineers too optimistic in their estimates? Very possibly. There is an obvious bias towards optimism. Also, techniques may have been refined, resulting in recalculations. One thing worth noting; proven reserves have only been a 30 year supply for over 25 years now. We keep on finding more oil, but it comes from unproven instead of proven reserves. Or was management misinterpreting or misreporting the data they were getting fed? Its actually their job to guard against too much optimism; they may not have done it well enough or techniques of estimation may have just improved. Calculating the reserve in a field has not been exact from the start. As fields develop, the calculation of the remaining reserve improves. Finally, reserves are tied to costs. There may be 1 billion barrels of oil extractable at $20/barrel and another half billion that would take another $5/barrel to extract. Dan M. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Mice produce sperm from monkeys
- Original Message - From: Ronn!Blankenship [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2004 10:11 PM Subject: Re: Mice produce sperm from monkeys At 10:05 PM 2/4/04, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 2/4/2004 8:53:12 PM US Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: So? Sheep have been used to produce sperm from lonely humans for centuries . . . Dunno If They Were Viable Or Not, And Frankly I'm Not Going To Investigate Maru Viabull? If it was a man and a sheep, I don't know viabull would be the result. Vilyehm Teighlore -- Do the mice smoke afterwards? I dunno, but we sure took this discussion to a low level quickly . . . Wellif they are up high they don't produce sperm do they? xponent Love Comes In Spurts Maru rob ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Heebi ab-Lesh
Heebi ab-Lesh ab-Erbl ab-Kosh ab-Rosh ab-Tothtoon wol:ab-J'8lek ab-Khilp ab-Brawch When the very successful and respected Lesh began the Lith uplift project they expected that they were uplifting their last client. The Lesh, through little effort of their own became the foster patrons to their Heebi god-clients in the wake of the Stoort rebellion against their J'8lek patrons. The J'8lek ab-Khilp ab-Brawch ul-Kaschan ul-Stoort ul-Heebi ul-B'8koo were uplifted by the Khilp as a servitor race. When mature the J'8lek proved avaricious, ambitious, and ruthlessly efficient capitalists. The J'8lek rose rapidly in Galactic society and soon had scores of planetary leases and four clients. Unfortunately, their ruthless greed drove the Stoort, their military arm, to team with the Khilp diplomats in a rebellion. The Stage Two Heebi also actively supported the rebellion. After a mere 623 hab-years of war the J'8lek lost all but two planets and the B'8koo. (The GUI ruled that the J'8lek were harsh, but not _per se_ abusive patrons. Indeed, the fact the Stoort rebelled successfully impressed the GUI with the quality of J'8lek uplift projects.) As the leaders of the rebellion the Stoort opted to end their uplift, the Kaschan were fostered to their Pargi god-patrons and the Heebi to the Lesh. J'8lek planetary leases were re-assigned to the rebels and their new patrons in the negotiated peace settlement. The J'8lek planned to uplift the Heebi as a specialized servitor race. The Heebi were well suited to the role with only a couple of deficits. Proto-Heebi were centipedal with two limbs per segment. All proto-Heebi had a comensual relationship with one or two species of large herbivores, or in a couple of instances with large pack-hunting carnivores. The main population of proto-Heebi followed herds of very large herbivores. They grubbed for roots and insects in soil and tree trunks disturbed by their associated species. They also groomed the comensual species, cleaning off parasites. The presence of the huge herbivores also offered the smaller Heebi some protection from predators. Proto-Heebi were in many ways a very promising species--they even used primitive tools and cooperated. Proto-Heebi had low levels of sexual stratification, mating jealousy and territoriality. Young resembled adults with fewer segments, but had distinct, prolonged childhoods. Heebi are born with an anterior segment, five limbed segments, and a posterior segment. All proto-Heebi were dormant for about a quarter of their homeworld year. During this time they would excrete a chrysalis, absorb their exo-skeleton, grow a new segment, then a new exo-skeleton. Heebi have been modified so that they only need a growth hibernation period every four or five hab-years. A growth hibernation period lasts a little over one-third of a hab-year. Proto-Heebi all went dormant in one season. There is no strong seasonality in Heebi growth hibernation so at any given time a fraction of the population are dormant. With the exception of its anterior and posterior segments, every Heebi segment has two limbs. All limbs end in four digits. Heebi use all their limb-ends indiscriminantly as both feet and hands. When they were fostered to the Lesh the J'8lek were considering advancing the Heebi to Stage Three. However, the Lesh wanted to revisit Stage Two for the Heebi, so advancement to Stage Three has been postponed. There is much to admire in the Heebi. They work well together, are amiable and get on well with aliens and strangers. Heebi are sensitive to others moods and enjoy pleasing others. Conflict is rare in Heebi society. They tend to form devoted attachments to powerful individuals and patrons. A tendency that is not out of place in a servitor race. The Heebi are even moderately ambitious and should make adequate Galactic citizens. The primary drawback with the Heebi project, as the Lesh see it, is that the J'8lek left allowed the typical Heebi without guile. They are honest to a fault and trusting to the point of gullibility. It is the rare Heebi who has the discretion due a servant. They can understand secrets and secrecy, but getting a Heebi to give up secrets is trivially easy. Lesh, Zhuup, and to a much lesser extent Vijilus currently use Heebi as personal servants. Personal servants are seldom allowed to interact with outsiders. Since the Lith and Heebi are nominal equals, the Lesh do not allow Lith to have Heebi servants. Nevertheless, when Lith encounter Heebi it is evident that the Lith take measured advantage of the situation. Heebi are also found in service roles where personal discretion is not at a premium. Erbl Clan Tradition dictates that all members must be self-sufficient, at least theoretically. Lesh have indicated that Heebi guilelessness will be *the* priority for Stage Two in the Heebi project. The goal is for Heebi to have
Re: Reviews for Mel Gibson's The Passion of the Christ
Tom, I think Christians need to face up to this and not try to argue it away or pretend it didn't happen or deny their responsibility for two millennia of violence. I am a Christian and I am definitely not responsible for two millennia of violence. Because, whatever Christians may think of their religion as being a religion of love and peace, to Jews it's a religion of hatred and murder. Are you saying that Jews (All Jews? Perhaps not.) conflate Christianity (the system of beliefs based on the life, death and resurrection of Jesus) with the people who profess that faith. Christians come with the same variety as Jews. Some of us are really fine people who seek to live as Jesus taught and demonstrated. Some of us are really rotten people who think that our faith is an excuse to condemn others. Please use whatever influence you may have among your Jewish friends to debunk the myth that all Christians are Jew-haters. We are not. I really hate stereotypes. I spend more time than I'd like explaining that I am a Christian, but not the vile stereotype of a condemning God Said It, I Believe It, That Settles It cardboard cut-out. And yes, I know, it's as wrong for Jews to blame all Christians for the violence as it is for Christians to blame all Jews for the death of Jesus. Agreed. Much mistrust and violence begins with the need to assign blame. But when you're a tiny helpless minority being persecuted and hunted down and burned alive in synagogues and forced to convert, it's not easy to be fair. Which makes the words of one famous Jew all the more impressive: Father forgive them, for they know not what they do. Dave David M. Land[EMAIL PROTECTED] 408-551-0427 ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Heebi ab-Lesh
In a message dated 2/4/2004 9:28:22 PM US Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Heebi ab-Lesh ab-Erbl ab-Kosh ab-Rosh ab-Tothtoon wol:ab-J'8lek ab-Khilp ab-Brawch When the very successful and respected Lesh began the Lith uplift project they expected that they were uplifting their last client. The Lesh, through little effort of their own became the foster patrons to their Heebi god-clients in the wake of the Stoort rebellion against their J'8lek patrons. The J'8lek ab-Khilp ab-Brawch ul-Kaschan ul-Stoort ul-Heebi ul-B'8koo were uplifted by the Khilp as a servitor race. and on to: Lesh, Zhuup, and to a much lesser extent Vijilus currently use Heebi as personal servants Note to all Terragen Agents: Even if a hebbi is encountered in a situation in which it is in a servile position, one should NEVER use the derogatory phrase: Heebi Jeevei. William Taylor ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Heebi ab-Lesh
In a message dated 2/4/2004 9:28:22 PM US Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: . The J'8lek rose rapidly in Galactic society and soon had scores of planetary leases and four clients. Unfortunately, their ruthless greed drove the Stoort, their military arm, to team with the Khilp diplomats in a rebellion. A religious person would think that the Stoort had sold their souls in the bargain, and so would ask if it was really worth it. But here clearly it was an example of Stoort Faust, ask questions later. William Taylor - If a Stoort died in line of battle, they'd just grab the weapon and put in another Khilp. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
