RE: For David Brin and the rest of you
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2013 08:24:00 -0300 Subject: Re: For David Brin and the rest of you From: albm...@centroin.com.br To: brin-l@mccmedia.com David Hobby wrote: Or are you worried about energy being beamed down inefficiently, producing much more heat than just the amount from people using energy directly? No, even if it was possible to beam energy with 100% efficiency... it's still energy. It comes down, it must get out. If not, Earth gets cooked. Hell on Earth, the nightmare of science fiction, brought to us by those that try to save the planet. Isn't this the scenario of some cheap sci-fi, where the Mad Scientist tries to destroy the Earth by placing an enormous mirror or lens in orbit, concentrating solar energy? Just we don't need mirror or lens, place a lot of death ray satellites. Sorry, power satellites. Alberto Monteiro And of course, anything that can be that easily weaponized, will be. Remember Heinlein's Loonies winning their independence by throwing rocks at the mother world? ___ http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
RE: For David Brin and the rest of you
Date: Wed, 4 Sep 2013 10:10:33 -0700 Subject: For David Brin and the rest of you From: hkeithhen...@gmail.com To: brin-l@mccmedia.com As of last April, there seems to be a solution to the energy/carbon/climate problems, even water. Relatively cheap, less than ten dollars a person. It's long been understood that solar power from space gets around the limitations on the Earth. The problem has always been the high cost of lifting solar power satellite parts to GEO. It looks like a combination of Skylon, a project being developed in the UK and big propulsion lasers will get the cost to under $100/kg to GEO. Due to a clever idea by Steve Nixon, investment cost could be around $60 B, the break even point from selling power satellite around 8 years, and the ten year return on investment 500%. The cost of electric power from space would rapidly fall to 2 cents per kWh or less. That's cheap enough to make synthetic gasoline from CO2 out of the air for a dollar a gallon. Energy this cheap will allow sea water to be turned into fresh at low cost and permit recycling just about everything. $60 B is smaller than a number of exiting energy project, and only twice what the Chinese spent to build Three Gorges dam. Eye candy: Laser powered Skylon near the end of acceleration to LEO on hydrogen heated by 3 GW of lasers located in GEO http://www.htyp.org/File:SkylonLaser.jpg How much does it cost in energy as well as in dollars? Cradle to grave? And is the initial investment within the capability of the United States right now? (I know. $60B is peanuts. Even so -) or any corporation? What are the economics - in the terms mentioned above - of beaming solar power down to earth? (Those of using it space are, of course, well understood by now.) Over the past 7 decades, I've come to see the wisdom of getting a good, solid cost accounting done before instituting any large scale project. Anyway, subject to that sort of analysis, it does sound good indeed. ___ http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
RE: Power and civilization
John Barnes' Directive 51 went it one better - ALL petroleum and petroleum products. It did devolve into the question of whether it was a centrally organized conspiracy, preferably from abroad, or a spontaneous movement; in fact, the entire US splits over that question, thanks to a disagreement in the administration on whose watch it happens. There is a sequel; not sure there is a third. Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2012 18:49:34 -0500 Subject: Re: Power and civilization From: john...@gmail.com To: brin-l@mccmedia.com I'm reading John Varley's Slow Apocalypse. The premise is that all un-processed petroleum is destroyed by an act of bio-terrorism. In the middle of it right now, but so far it's scaring the spit out of me. john On Thu, Nov 29, 2012 at 5:26 PM, medieva...@aol.com wrote: Twas in Last And First Men, by Olaf Stapledon, I think, where all future civilizations had their power based upon alcohol. Nothing stored from the past was left. In a message dated 11/29/2012 12:58:45 P.M. US Mountain Standard Tim, net_democr...@yahoo.com writes: The measure of a civilization could be said to be it's consumption of energy and how it uses resources. Conspicuous v. sustainable... ___ http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com ___ http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com ___ http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com ___ http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
RE: Degeneration? Re: Where to now?
Ok - my take on it is that old, degenerate refers to the institutions of the culture, not the biology of the race, and that those institutions strangle the energy and desire to innovate of most bright people in the cradle. First of all, there would be widespread corruption, and probably absolutist government if there was government at all. Second, the rulers would have been strip-mining the economy from time immemorial, and the tech level would show it. Why innovate when anything you have can be taken from you because somebody wants it? Far better to focus on your own safety. Finally, there would be wdespread fatalism, probably backed up by popular religion - and believe me, it would be popular because it would offer an explanation of the way things were. Priesthoods preaching and enforcing this fatalism would be a bonus. Cultures like this have been known throughout history, and they often appear brilliant as long as there is anything to steal, and fall back into the pattern above when the loot runs out, so add in a sense of a bygone golden age that they are living in the ruins of. Is this not the description of these old and degenerate races so beloved of the writers you mention? Picked apart here with an eye to political science? Certainly it describes a lot of the ones so described by Western explorers in our own 17th-19th centuries. Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2012 15:17:58 +0100 From: k...@stock-consulting.com To: brin-l@mccmedia.com Subject: Degeneration? Re: Where to now? Okay, back to my discussion with myself ;-) This, of course, a tendency only. But it's sufficient and it surely kills innovation. I wonder how much further this tendency will go. I always found it hard to swallow when SciFi authors wrote about old degenerate races. Not only Dr. Brin; it also appeared in the Perry Rhodan pulp. I always wondered why there was no single brilliant, energetic, innovative member of this degenerate species who would turn the tide. Yup, that's naive. Probably read too many stories and/or watched too many movies where the hero would save the world/universe/everything, either singlehandely or with (or despite) the help of his/her idiotic sidekick. But now I wonder if we haven't already reached the goal of becoming a degenerate race. Progress mainly happens in marketing, not in research and development. And while we have a lot of hero material in our population, none of them is apparently able to make a difference. - Klaus ___ http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com ___ http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
RE: Obama II
This plays into some recent conversations about efficiency vs resilience. Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 20:06:16 +0100 From: k...@stock-consulting.com To: brin-l@mccmedia.com Subject: Re: Obama II I know as a fact that the Defense Department said they would require that all programming for applications they used would have to be done in Ada (I think within 5 years) because Ada was a compiler that automatically eliminated bugs. AFAIK, the Ada compiler can detect many programmer mistakes at compile time. Of course, one might say that Ada that's mainly because Ada imposes so many restrictions on the programmer that the chance to make mistakes is greatly increased (compared to more relaxed languages, which do, for example, implicit type conversion). Ada also supports run-time-checks - which detects bugs when it's already too late (or may even cause bugs in extreme cases). Compared to other languages of the time, like Fortran, it's clearly superior in detecting some classes of bugs early. It also reduces the programmer's efficiency, resulting the number of bugs per time compare to more efficient languages. However, the best bugs are introduced during programming, but much earlier. Catching bugs at the earliest possible time is expensive, but the ROI is immense and outweighs the cost by several orders of magnitude. Of course, any manager who was reading this dropped out at the word expensive, so defective software will remain the standard. Okay, the word standard reminds to get back on-topic. I suspect that the reason for the choice of Ada was that Ada was the first standardized HL programming language. Oh, the military loves standards. No further explanation necessary. Best regards, Klaus ___ http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com ___ http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
RE: Existence
Just so long as they don't say Existence is Feudal - Brin would have a fit! Resistance, now ... From: medieva...@aol.com Date: Sun, 13 May 2012 21:00:47 -0400 Subject: Re: Existence To: brin-l@mccmedia.com As long as they don't say Existence is futile. In a message dated 5/13/2012 10:26:16 A.M. US Mountain Standard Time, char...@culturelist.org writes: On 14/05/2012, at 12:26 AM, William Goodall wrote: The new Brin novel Existence comes out in June. A topic! So, will they add a stupid apostrophe in the non-US versions? Ex'stence, maybe… Suppose I should get my amazon order sorted out! Charlie ___ http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com ___ http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com ___ http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
RE: Brin: Infinite Stupidity
Prone to fads defines every urbanized civilization I've ever heard of, and tribal societies are less given to innovation that he thinks, because the traditional lore is a store of highly specialized local knowledge about conditions whose changes are well understood. Even the odd once-in-a-lifetime events can usually be answered by consulting one of the elders or grandmothers. It's my guess that innovation is the hallmark of an expanding or frontier society where all bets are off and great benefits can be had from it. Or in borderlands where cultures interact. Because a lot of what he describes as docile copying and getting our information from the society at large can also be interpreted as it is not rational to reinvent the wheel! Unless it's not working for you. And there is the other condition for innovation - to be subject to a clumsy procedure or machine and grit your teeth and mutter Bad design. VERY bad design. I could do better. And be able to do it. In which case all that culturally accumulated knowledge is there to serve you. http://idiotgrrl.livejournal.com/ Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2011 06:54:29 -0600 From: evil.ke...@gmail.com To: brin-l@mccmedia.com Subject: Brin: Infinite Stupidity Edge never fails to disappoint. http://edge.org/conversation/infinite-stupidity-edge-conversation-with-mark-pagel --- It’s cheap to maintain Lies and expensive to maintain Trvth. --KZK's Maxim ___ http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com ___ http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
RE: Testing...
Let me join in the test. http://idiotgrrl.livejournal.com/ Subject: Testing... From: char...@culturelist.org Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2011 18:04:27 +1000 To: brin-l@mccmedia.com Testing… 1… 1… Charlie ___ http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com ___ http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
RE: Electronic interface options
Kit Kat is not a friend. It's a pseudonym for the unknown women who claim to
want to friend me - why, oh, why, isn't there an option to check out the people
poking you?
http://idiotgrrl.livejournal.com/
Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2011 19:13:52 -0700
From: net_democr...@yahoo.com
Subject: Electronic interface options
To: brin-l@mccmedia.com
The best thing about FB is I don't have to remember whether to top or bottom
post!~) I don't have that many friend who use the same name, AND are crass
enough to poke me!~) In any case, FB sends me to the right profile... I've
never been lucky enough to be poked by Kit Kat; MZ doesn't even allow
breastfeeding pics on FB!~{
I still get the failed messages, but now I know it's a glitch. Nick will fix
it when he can; the guy is a REAL networker!
I miss David in our small community, but we have to share. I continue to
have a blast on his FB Wall!
Jon
At 08:00 PM Sunday 9/18/2011, Pat Mathews wrote:
My problem is that I have quite a bit of trouble
recognizing people
in a different context. So if Kat wants to poke me,
is this
catmountain in Tijeras? Kat Roberts from the SCA? Or
Kit Kat from
the Porn Page?
The on-line version of the problem faced in the sci-fi
community in
Utah in the eighties*: we had at least seven folks
named Dave
(including Wolverton/Farland), and in any given formal or
informal
gathering there were usually at least two or three if not
more, so
things could get confusing when anyone called out for
Dave . . .
*Several of them AFAIK are still in the area, though I know
some have
moved elsewhere.
. . . ronn! :)
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RE: Br¡n: On Fracking and Earthquakes
Two problems with the Brin list. First, each message keeps coming up with the name of the individual sender as primary and warning me This may not be *trustworthy*! Do you want to mark it as safe? Each individual sender? Give me a break!!! , And I note that hitting Reply actually does send it back to the list. The Almacks list, out of the U.K., does the same thing. My Yahoo-groups lists don't. Second, the real discussion seems to be happening on his blog, in the comments. For what it's worth. I don't do social media, having [begin rant] been poked (hideous, intrusive act) too many times by people who call up a puzzled Do I know you and from where? without any way to check their profiles before (hideous word) friending them. Not to mention being bombarded with exhortations to play Farmville, and See how many people want to date you! (Yeah. Right.) And sales pitches, since every salescritter on the planet uses such media as their primary means of communication. [end rant]. http://idiotgrrl.livejournal.com/ Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2011 11:52:48 -0400 From: hob...@newpaltz.edu To: brin-l@mccmedia.com Subject: Re: Br¡n: On Fracking and Earthquakes From: Ticia ti...@xs4all.nl To: Killer Bs (David Brin et al) Discussion brin-l@mccmedia.com Sent: Sunday, September 18, 2011 11:35:37 AM Subject: Re: Br¡n: On Fracking and Earthquakes On 27 Aug 2011, at 02:46, Ronn! Blankenship wrote: At 06:57 AM Friday 8/26/2011, KZK wrote: http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2011/08/human-activity-can-cause-earthquakes/ I really like the instructions given for those who want to leave comments. . . . ronn! :) Yeah. Seems to work, too. :) Wonder how many people are left on this list? Such an oldfashioned mode of communication and info-gathering… ;) Not that I'm keeping up with the new ways much… I try, life is just way too busy right now with 3 kids full time job setting up the Dutch B-Society to spend much time figuring out how the frack FB works or posting every thought I have on Twitter… -- Ticia-- Hi. It's good to hear from you. I think a lot of us still lurk, but it's hard to keep a conversation going. ---David ___ http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com ___ http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
RE: ADMIN: Re: Delivery Status Notification (Failure), was Re: Night Owls Demand Equal Rights!
Well, I got it, and since I didn't see my Reply message to the list pop up, I figured there was smeting wrong and it wouldn;t take my reply. http://idiotgrrl.livejournal.com/ Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2011 19:00:42 -0500 To: brin-l@mccmedia.com From: ronn_blankens...@bellsouth.net Subject: Re: ADMIN: Re: Delivery Status Notification (Failure), was Re: Night Owls Demand Equal Rights! At 06:37 PM Sunday 9/18/2011, Nick Arnett wrote: Ugh - I didn't realize everybody was getting this. Yep. I get it every time I send a message to the list, and it sounds like everybody else does, too . . . Shouldn't happen. I'll figure it out and stop it. Thanks! . . . ronn! :) ___ http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com ___ http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
RE: Electronic interface options
My problem is that I have quite a bit of trouble recognizing people in a different context. So if Kat wants to poke me, is this catmountain in Tijeras? Kat Roberts from the SCA? Or Kit Kat from the Porn Page? http://idiotgrrl.livejournal.com/ Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2011 17:11:01 -0700 From: net_democr...@yahoo.com Subject: Electronic interface options To: brin-l@mccmedia.com I signed up for Facebook some time ago after receiving the invite from David for the sort of reasons you mention below. I'm a bit overwhelmed by all the other options to network electronically. I looked into Twitter, Google+ and a bunch of other links but got FB seems to be winning the with all the various games, etc. It is mostly superficial and geared toward revenue for that guy who figured out how to become an instant billionaire, but so what? I take the best and disregard the rest and just participate in the very interesting and stimulating discussion, especially on David's page. I was put off by a couple trolls who used hit an run tactics, but since they blocked me I no longer see their posts. At first I didn't know how to do social media, but am learning how to ignore and block the invites to play Farmville, and sales pitches, etc. Different strokes for different folks and FB is certainly a diverse community. If I get a poke, it's from a friend, and I poke back; I never initiate a poke!~) I even friended Nick on FB (and other networks). He is everywhere and even was friends with Mark Zuckerberg. I thoroughly enjoy the conversation in forums, list servers, etc. I don't know if here is a way to revive Brin-L with links to social media. we seem to have lost David to that interface somewhat, but he is a futurist and predicted all this! Brin-L was in the vanguard of all this, but the WWW, Broadband, You Tube, E-Bay, etc. are the wave of the future; for or better or worse... The world has changed radically and revolutions are in motion around the word; who knows what will be next, but I listen to David and other authors to keep up... Yes we are still a kind of social network, with a history and connections dating back to a previous online era? A brilliant source for information should we need it? It'll be interesting to see how all the social networking develops in the next few years? Jon Mann ___ http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com ___ http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
RE: the Cold War
Uncle Joe wasn't going to fight with troops and tanks on the ground, no. They were in the same shape in 1945 as we'd have been if the Vietnam war had been to the death on our own soil 25 years after we'd just been through a nasty war to the death on our own soil - the Russian Revolution in their case. Yes, they were totally exhausted that way. But a war of spy -vs- spy, economic maneuverings, propaganda, and all the rest? Sure! And China, in somewhat better shape, was dabbling in proxy wars in Asia where it could. Of course, Russia and China didn't like each other any better than we liked either one of them, or they, us. Still, Kipling's Great Game went on along all three borders for quite some time. I don't think anyone thought that the fate of the nation - or the world - rested on the wars we chose to fight in Asia, but we sure didn't want the Dragon taking any bites out of Asia. In Europe? As in the Middle East up until quite recently: two aging regimes keeping the peace with each other by being armed to the teeth and looking fierce at the other side and slapping the hands of any that reached across the quite-well-established borders. It was, of course, an uneasy peace, but ce'st la vie. Pat, who was 6 when the entire thing started and 50 when it ended, so this is as close to an eyewitness report as you're going to get from a civilian non-expert. http://idiotgrrl.livejournal.com/ Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2010 01:05:12 +1300 From: e...@ritchie.net.nz Subject: Re: the Cold War To: brin-l@mccmedia.com The biggest fallacy regarding it was the Soviet threat which was always exaggerated. Neither militarily nor politically did the soviet Union (or China and other 'communist allied') ever pose an existential threat to the U.S. No, but it did to most of Europe... and that's what the Cold War really was. It was Europe-backed-by-America *not* being invaded by a LOT of tanks. Well, yeah, but that was pretty much decided during the Berlin airlift when Uncle Joe made the decision that the USSR didn't want to fight. All that followed after that showdown was just postering. ___ http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com ___ http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
RE: the Cold War
But I didn't say everybody hated America: just that Russia looked upon the US and China as its adversaries; China looked upon the US and Russia as its adversaries, and the US looked upon Russia and China as its adversaries. Perfect triangulation,which probably kept the peace for decades. As for Latin America - I think public opinion there was very closely related to whatever our deeds were in each specific country and period, so you'd get a lot of variation there. Same with other nations outside of Europe; Europe, in that period, was our friend. Does that clarify matters? http://idiotgrrl.livejournal.com/ From: albm...@centroin.com.br To: brin-l@mccmedia.com Subject: RE: the Cold War Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2010 13:34:35 -0200 Pat Mathews wrote: Of course, Russia and China didn't like each other any better than we liked either one of them, or they, us. Still, Kipling's Great Game went on along all three borders for quite some time. Are you sure about that everybody-hated-America meme? I don't think there was too many anti-USA feeling in Russia and China during the 1950s and 1960s. The USA might be seen as a good ally in the Soviet Union, for its participation and support during WW2, and China certainly saw the USA as a liberator from the japanese atrocities - even if the USA supported the corrupt dictator after the War. Here in Latin America, anti-USA feelings only became proeminent when the USA sided with murderous dictatorships during the 1960s and 1970s, in such a way that we all thought that Communism was nice and pretty. We've had 21 years of full democracy in Brazil, and even then presidential candidates still want to identify themselves with the left: in the last election (2010), the top-three were former Commies (Dilma was arrested and tortured in the 1970s for affiliation with communist guerilla, Serra was exiled, and Marina Silva claimed to be the extreme left). Alberto Monteiro ___ http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com ___ http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
RE: Underwater mortgages and the economy
I'm trying to imagine us as being in shape for any large enterprises in 1979, and I was there and 40 years old at the time. Everything we'd started either in the lush postwar years or in the wake of the Fourth Great Awakening had fizzled out, the young people were moving into middle age, the giants of yesteryear were beginning to die, the memory of the Vietnam fiasco colored our decisions as well as our budget, and we were way overdue for a course change. Naah -- never happen. Not on our part, anyway. http://idiotgrrl.livejournal.com/ Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2010 22:32:52 -0700 Subject: Re: Underwater mortgages and the economy From: brig...@zo.com To: brin-l@mccmedia.com Dan wrote: Me: First, let me assure anyone reading this that I in no way advocate war as a solution for anything, I'm just discussing the possible consequences of the State's current situation. Sure, if they invaded Europe in '79 and Carter wasn't willing to start Armageddon. But, the military was a drain on their GDP, rising to 45% of it at the end. Look at the war surrogate, the race to the moon. They weren't close. I think they grew faster than the US for about 5 years. Planned economies are OK for a while, but tend to get caught up in artificial goals. China has been the exception, but that's because we are in an era of no real disruptive innovationsand China doesn't have to adapt. Why Japan is in a funk now is interestingsocially they couldn't make the obvious decisions. The point is that after the war they had a large empire and access to abundant resources. Their subsequent mismanagement of those resources does not negate the fact that they had the potential to prosper as a result of the war. We'd probably repudiate it. But, there's a much easier way to handle it. Get the deficit (not national debt) down, and put inflation up at 15%/year. After a decade, we'd owe them zilch. That's one very unique thing about the US debt. We owe dollars. We can, by one statement of the Fed, get rid of the debt. It wouldn't matter if interest rates went up, fixed debt in inflationary times is good for the borrower, not the lender. Do you really think that China would just let that happen? But, if it got to the point of not paying the debt due to conflict, it would probably get to WWIII. China's nukes aren't that good, so we'd probably only lose LA, NY, Chicago, Houston, Washington, areas. I'd guess we'd get by with less than 50 million killed. I can imagine a scenario in which the likelihood that any of China's nukes hit us is very low, but it would involve a preemptive strike of some sort, defensive nukes, and a way of keeping other powers such as Russia out of it. Considering our power and ability to deliver it to their doorstep, China has much more to fear from a nuclear conflict than we do, but considering the rate at which they are catching up to us, this could change. There are other scenarios that lead to war as well. The people running the PRK are lunatics and they have nukes, though I wouldn't be surprised if they blow themselves up before they blow anyone else up. Then there is the Middle Eastern bag of worms especially when Iran joins the N club. But, I'd also guess that would set back the economy a good bit. At some point, it's set back so far already that it doesn't matter In general war is profitable to the victor if: 1) The homeland isn't hit. 2) They can make money off the conquered. Well, trillions of dollars of debt disappearing overnight might be one source of gain. The fact that we'd have to ramp up our manufacturing capability again would be another. Another thing is that the current atmosphere of internal divisiveness would be ameliorated. Again I make these arguments as devil's advocate; please don't infer that I favor war as any kind of solution for our problems. I do imagine that there _are_ people that would make these kinds of arguments seriously. Doug ___ http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com ___ http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
RE: Down with the government
Besides which, we greedy geezers will pass our ill-gotten wealth down to you hard-pressed Xers and your children in due time via the normal process of inheritance, if the medical bills needed to keep us functioning don't eat every last bit of it up. http://idiotgrrl.livejournal.com/ From: ju...@zurg.net To: brin-l@mccmedia.com Subject: RE: Down with the government Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2010 08:35:21 -0500 The old people don't equate to the old culture. There's a fairly large intersection of the two, but neither is a subset (proper or improper) of the other. Old people, or more to the point, their lobbies (think AARP) wield a fair amount of political power right now. That's where the Social Security/Medicare untouchability comes from. The old culture is losing cultural ground and trying to make up for it by seizing whatever political ground it can. Julia -Original Message- From: brin-l-boun...@mccmedia.com [mailto:brin-l-boun...@mccmedia.com] On Behalf Of John Williams Sent: Monday, October 18, 2010 11:42 PM To: Killer Bs (David Brin et al) Discussion Subject: Re: Down with the government I'm curious, if the old culture is in such decline, why are Social Security and Medicare still untouchable? There is no way, with the current system, that today's young and middle-aged are going to get as much out of the system as they put in. It is a giant Ponzi scheme. So if the old are so powerless, why doesn't the system get reformed to be more age-equitable? ___ http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com ___ http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
RE: Down with the government
There is NO WAY an ordinary wage-earner could have saved enough to cover the sort of insurance-inflated medical bills common today. Call around and ask what various procedures and prescription medications cost. I have insurance because I worked for a University. A lot of people were unable to get work with people who offer insurance at that level. Call around and ask what these procedures and meds cost for someone without insurance. Then make a budget that allows for rent, food, transportation, etc AND savings at that level. http://idiotgrrl.livejournal.com/ Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2010 09:14:56 -0700 Subject: Re: Down with the government From: jwilliams4...@gmail.com To: brin-l@mccmedia.com On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 8:41 AM, Pat Mathews mathew...@msn.com wrote: Besides which, we greedy geezers will pass our ill-gotten wealth down to you hard-pressed Xers and your children in due time via the normal process of inheritance, if the medical bills needed to keep us functioning don't eat every last bit of it up. Not greedy, in most cases, just poor financial planners / lack of understanding of future costs vs. savings. As demonstrated by the above comment. As a group, Americans nearing the age they expect to retire have saved far too little to support themselves and their care until they die (which is a lot longer now than it was 50 years ago). In the aggregate, there is not going to be wealth, ill-gotten or otherwise, to pass on. The reverse, actually. ___ http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com ___ http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
RE: Down with the government
Okay. Have it your way. We/they didn't save enough and consume health care with reckless abandon. May you never be in the workplace where the clerk, knowing that one must never, ever, consume health care one cannot afford, comes to work with the flu. http://idiotgrrl.livejournal.com/ Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2010 10:24:36 -0700 Subject: Re: Down with the government From: jwilliams4...@gmail.com To: brin-l@mccmedia.com On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 10:06 AM, Pat Mathews mathew...@msn.com wrote: There is NO WAY an ordinary wage-earner could have saved enough to cover the sort of insurance-inflated medical bills common today. If true, then by what magic of aggregation can a group of such people afford something that most individuals cannot afford? There are only two possibilities I can think of: (1) A fraction of the group members have saved a great deal, enough to support the rest of the group (2) A different group will pay to support the group that did not save enough The problem with (1) is that I think even if you confiscated all of the excess savings of those who have saved enough for themselves, you still would not have enough to take care of all those who did not save enough. The problem with (2) is how does the other group save enough to support themselves as well as support the first group? It is either a giant Ponzi scheme that will eventually collapse, or you are relying on some innovations that reduce care costs in the future, something which has not happened so far despite many advances -- people always want more and better life, and they have tended to choose that over freezing the status quo and reducing the costs. ___ http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com ___ http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
RE: Is anybody home?
I just downloaded Sword of the Lady and High King of Montival so I could have the entire Emberverse series at my fingertips. Also the Saga of the Volsungs, but beware of downloading anything with footnotes. Someone should do this as a miniseries, instead. Hmmm... a miniseries with a thundering great soundtrack. Nine one-hour episodes, allow for commercials, that's an entire season. Start with the treasure in the Rhine .. we could call it The Rhine Gold http://idiotgrrl.livejournal.com/ Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2010 21:07:44 -0800 Subject: Re: Is anybody home? From: brig...@zo.com To: brin-l@mccmedia.com Hello old friends, I'm still hangin' Anybody reading a good book? I'm struggling through Hamilton's book Pandora's Star and hoping that Bank's new one will be in Kindle form soon. Maybe I'll re-read Anathem Doug On Tue, Oct 5, 2010 at 5:16 PM, kananda...@aol.com wrote: Finishing up a 3 year stint as profess association president (if Zim is still doing this, he has a heart of gold) Healthcare changes, legislatures without money threatening cuts even to folks with catastrophic injuries such as brain injuries/strokes, and a bit of embezzlement. feed my brain with science... Counting down, just a few weeks til I get a bit more breathing room and hope to get a new list of good books to read. Start me a list please. Got 2 of the newer Bears to read, but need about a few good sundiver/uplift type things... might just have to reread them. Dee In a message dated 10/5/2010 8:55:06 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, char...@culturelist.org writes: On 05/10/2010, at 11:43 PM, Julia wrote: The list did NOT drop you. Not from enough altitude to hurt, anyway... I'm home, but will need to leave in less than 90 minutes to pick up a friend at the dentist. That's an odd place to pick up... Bars and art galleries more traditional, no? ;-) So how is everyone? I've just had an odd week of ups and downs - Sunday I got to ride 3 laps of the UCI world championship course on fully closed roads, which was fun. (And bloody steep - 22% hurts) But last night came down with migraine, so been hiding in a dark quiet place. Only just getting over it and still fuzzy. Bleugh. C. ___ http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com ___ http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com ___ http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com ___ http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
RE: Is Anybody Home?
Naah, nobody's home but us chickens. I'm not here, either. http://idiotgrrl.livejournal.com/ Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2010 05:26:44 -0700 From: malamute1...@yahoo.com Subject: Re: Is Anybody Home? To: brin-l@mccmedia.com I was thinking the list dropped me a well, but then again I haven't told anybody that I joined the list again... It's nice to see that everybody is still around! Matthew Bos ___ http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com ___ http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
RE: Lions, Colorado-style
Oh, wow. Aren't they lovely animals! We get them out here in Albuquerque from time to time, and there's TV footage, but I've never seen one live except in the Rio Grande Zoo. http://idiotgrrl.livejournal.com/ Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2010 19:49:07 -0700 From: harrellmed...@yahoo.com Subject: Lions, Colorado-style To: brin-l@mccmedia.com It's taken over 10 years and really was pure luck, but I've finally seen cougars in the wild, about 1/4 mile from where I live - whoohoo! We were driving out at dusk, and there they were: a pair (courting?) just ~ 30 ft (10 meters, A?) off the road. They looked in good shape, without any big scars, moving fluidly, glossy-coated. I think the big one was a male, as it was a little jowly (like a tomcat, not fat!), and the slighter one was both shyer and appeared svelte, not 'lollopy' like an adolescent. It was a good wildlife-sighting week: turkey chicks, a pair of golden eagles (I was told they're the local breeding pair at Ken Caryl), a hawk family with an eyas (that's the term for a now-flying chick, IIRC) and as the jewels in the crown, cougars. Debbi Can You Feel The Love Tonight? Maru :D ___ http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com ___ http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
RE: Any comments on this piece?
And what do you all think polyester is? Hah. http://idiotgrrl.livejournal.com/ Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2010 14:10:37 -0500 To: brin-l@mccmedia.com From: ronn_blankens...@bellsouth.net Subject: RE: Any comments on this piece? At 07:15 AM Thursday 6/17/2010, Alberto Monteiro wrote: Petrobras was :-) Did they make women's undergarments out of petroleum? . . . ronn! :) ___ http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com ___ http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
RE: On Listmail
I think they had one, but it's not working, and they don't know why. http://idiotgrrl.livejournal.com/ Date: Mon, 3 May 2010 07:11:07 -0700 Subject: Re: On Listmail From: nick.arn...@gmail.com To: brin-l@mccmedia.com On Sun, May 2, 2010 at 10:49 PM, Doug Pensinger brig...@zo.com wrote: If anything good is to come out of this disaster, its that we'll be taking a closer look at offshore drilling, and that nobody will even be suggesting that we rape the California coast for a few buckets of oil. I've seen people seriously speculating that anti-drilling people, perhaps directed by the White House, sabotaged the platform, to cause the spill, so that drilling would slow down or stop. There is no end to the conspiracy. On a more rational note, DB commented that every well should have a deadman switch, so to speak - a device that shuts off the flow if it doesn't continuously receive a signal. Maybe I'm naive, but it seems to me that something like that would be in place if it were practical. Anybody know? Why not an automatic shut-off valve? Is it perhaps that some oil is under so much pressure that once it starts flowing, there's no stopping it as a practical matter? Nick ___ http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
FW: [stirling] SWITZERLAND Forests spread in size and diversity
Kudos to the Helvetian Confederation. bob From: marco_pert...@yahoo.it marco_pert...@yahoo.it To: worldhistor...@yahoogroups.com; stirl...@yahoogroups.com Cc: sciencefictiongroup yahoogroups sciencefictiongr...@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, March 27, 2010 11:38:44 AM Subject: [stirling] SWITZERLAND Forests spread in size and diversity Mar 16, 2010 - 16:55 Forests spread in size and diversity Swiss forests are larger and more diverse than in the 1990s, with protective woodlands now more stable against landslides and avalanches, a report has revealed. The Federal Environment Office and the Institute for Forests, Snow and Landscape Research said on Tuesday that woodlands now cover 1.28 million hectares of Switzerland, about 600 square kilometres more than 11 years ago. That new growth is about the same size as canton Glarus. The forestry inventory report, released ahead of World Forestry Day on March 21, showed that new forests are growing most rapidly in the country’s alpine regions, where half of all forests help guard against avalanches and landslides. Forests in mountainous areas now cover 31 per cent of the total surface area, up from 29.6 per cent from the last time an inventory was conducted in 1993-1995. Nearly one third of the country’s protective forests have benefited in the past 11 years from measures designed to promote forest health and development. About 16 per cent of Swiss forests now cover watersheds tapped for drinking water. At the same time, nearly three times as much deadwood can be found in Swiss forests compared with 1985, the report found. Storms, insect infestations and heat waves are largely to blame. Researchers added they would study the effects that climate change may have on wood stocks. Forests with just one type of tree are also becoming less common. Fifteen years ago 27 per cent of woodlands were monocultures. Today it is 23 per cent. swissinfo.ch http://www.swissinf o.ch/eng/ science_technolo gy/Forests_ spread_in_ size_and_ diversity. html?cid= 8494192 ___ http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
RE: ping
Pong! http://idiotgrrl.livejournal.com/ Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 19:12:17 -0700 From: tship...@deru.com To: brin-l@mccmedia.com Subject: ping Ping! ___ http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com ___ http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
RE: Brin: Lesley's copy of Kiln People
If this is consoling instead of making matters worse - I ran across the following poem online. It's Seamus Heaney on the death of a sibling. Just in case it makes matters worse for some people, I will Spoiler it. Get a hanky and look out for that last line - it's explosive. S P O I L E R S P A C E S P O I L E R S P A C E S P O I L Midterm Break Seamus Heaney I sat all morning in the college sick bay Counting bells knelling classes to a close, At two o'clock our neighbors drove me home. In the porch I met my father crying -- He had always taken funerals in his stride-- And Big Jim Evans saying it was a hard blow. The baby cooed and laughed and rocked the pram When I came in, and I was embarrassed By old men standing up to shake my hand And tell me they were sorry for my trouble, Whispers informed strangers I was the eldest, Away at school, as my mother held my hand In hers and coughed out angry tearless sighs. At ten o'clock the ambulance arrived With the corpse, stanched and bandaged by the nurses. Next morning I went up into the room. Snowdrops And candles soothed the bedside; I saw him For the first time in six weeks. Paler now, Wearing a poppy bruise on the left temple, He lay in the four foot box as in a cot. No gaudy scars, the bumper knocked him clear. A four foot box, a foot for every year. http://idiotgrrl.livejournal.com/ ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
RE: The worst
I am dreadfully sorry to hear this. Deepest sympathies, and may things go as well as they can for your niece as well. http://idiotgrrl.livejournal.com/ Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2010 13:47:41 -0800 Subject: The worst From: nick.arn...@gmail.com To: brin-l@mccmedia.com My friends I hate to write this. Been putting it off for a while. My younger sister, Lesley, the youngest of the four of us, mother of my five-year-old niece, Sarah, could not fight off the sepsis that attacked her body. Lesley died this morning. I have never hurt so much. Nick ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
RE: Another Conserpadia accidental joke: Fidel Castro is dead
Because being a dictator is the creme de la creme of vampiredom. I don't have to hunt them - I got me a ranch! http://idiotgrrl.livejournal.com/ Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2009 18:45:47 -0500 From: hob...@newpaltz.edu To: brin-l@mccmedia.com Subject: Re: Another Conserpadia accidental joke: Fidel Castro is dead Alberto Monteiro wrote: Trent Shipley wrote: No, this one may be right. Fidel got too sick to rule and was followed by his brother Raul(?). What is the _reliable_ source that Fidel is undead? Alberto Monteiro How about Van Helsing's _Who's Who of Vampires_? ---David ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
RE: Flags?
OH, they're at half-mast in New Mexico, all right. Or were yesterday. I didn't pass any today to notice. (Too busy with an ailing cat). http://idiotgrrl.livejournal.com/ From: ju...@zurg.net To: brin-l@mccmedia.com Subject: Flags? Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 18:17:32 -0600 I'm wondering how many people in the US are seeing flags at half-mast. We've been seeing an awful lot around here, in the wake of the Ft. Hood shootings, but Ft. Hood is practically in our back yard. I'm wondering how aware other folks are, and if they've been flying flags at half-mast in other states. Julia ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
RE: What's to read?
There are lots of Terry Pratchett books with Vetenari in them, including Going Postal - utterly delightful, that one! I tried downloading some PDF files on the university's eReserve list and they came out dreadfully tiny - and the print-size changer did not work, Not on PDF. So I read the fool thing on my desktop. Sigh. Hardly worth the effort. (Someone being sententious abotu the function of Art.) http://idiotgrrl.livejournal.com/ From: kananda...@aol.com Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 21:34:56 -0400 Subject: Re: What's to read? To: brin-l@mccmedia.com Pat wrote: I have a Sony 505. The books on my reader are on my reader and on my desktop, not on my account on someone else's server. If anyone wants to delete them [think 1984] or whatever, they have to physically steal my reader and then delete the book. I own them outright. Nobody else has any rights in the copies I own except, in this state, if I had a legally married spouse. (Community property state). No one gonna take my 505 away Doug wrote- That's nice, but if I was a best selling author I think I'd be pretty reluctant to sell my book that way for fear that someone would make copies and give them away a la mp3 file sharing. And unlike musicians, authors aren't likely to make a lot of money on tour so once their book is being distributed for free, they're SOL. Other than the ownership factor, how do you like your reader so far? * Hi all, Since this thread has been around the block twice, I figured I would finally get around to chiming in. My Sony 500 is 3+ years old and going strong. I still feel a bit like Chekov on the bridge reading it :-) Since I have been rather behind on scifi reading compared to many of you, I have had fun with some of the bundles (finally read Red/Blue/Green Mars) and have been pleased with the addition over the past year of having an option of selecting from a list of award winner options that have been broadening my author pool a bit. My pleasure reading time still isn't the best, but I do refuse to put my professional journals on it (.pdf) just on principle. It has held up well to a wide variety of stressors including quite a few long hot days at the beach, etc. I had concerns about the battery, but it is also holding up well and holding for days/thousand plus page sessions. Seeing the newer version with the light on the side was cool, and it looks like now there is an easy right hand page turning function which this one doesn't offer. I know some of you pointed me to free download sites, but it has proven a bit more challenging with the older model. Just saw the new large size Kindle in the airport security line today and it looks like the black on white print technology is getting crisper (or it could be that I am needing to start wearing glasses- true sign of approaching crone-ism) and am starting to use the medium size print option :-) I did find Bank's Matter on my recent set of downloads (saving it for a particularly blah time, since it is always a good read). Some of the older things like the day the earth stood still and flowers of Aulit Prison were good to find as they are re releasing some of those stories. One recent read question (blending threads)- finally tried my first Pratchett book- Night Watch. I found it to be lighter and a good brain break, but I am not sure if there is any particular order to things. Is there another book related to Vetinari? Jeez, I guess I missed you guys with all the blathering on. I am always around lurking, but guess it has been too long. Dee ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
RE: Wife's suggestion!
We started with a plea for civility and niceness. Because it invoked religion and the name of Jesus, the thread was promptly taken over by those who felt it their bounden duty to object to the Christian content - not on the grunds that they were not Christian, but because they consider it their bounden duty to attack Christianity whenever and wherever they see it, apparently, as evil, superstitious, and whatever else they object to. This is not civil - it is clean contrary to what was wanted - and in the name of the Maiden, Mother, and Crone, must a polite request that people be polite be taken over by the rabid culture warriors? Gaah. http://idiotgrrl.livejournal.com/ Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 08:46:21 -0700 Subject: Re: Wife's suggestion! From: nick.arn...@gmail.com To: brin-l@mccmedia.com On Tue, Sep 22, 2009 at 1:20 AM, Charlie Bell char...@culturelist.org wrote: That's the widely perceived view of them, yes. Doesn't totally hold water if you actually read the New Testament, but yes - if people tried to act a bit nicer to each other we'd be better off. I know what you mean, I think, but I've stopped using the word nice to describe it. I know churches that are perfectly nice to gays, for example, but in doing so pretty much fail to accept them. Sort of a welcome to our church, we're glad to have you here and we're certain that you're going to hell. Except that the last sentence is implied, not spoken aloud. I guess another way to say what I'm saying is that hypocrisy and self-righteousness can be extremely nice, and I find the combination to be not only irritating, but destructive to community. There's a passive-aggressiveness present. I'd rather call on people to be real, rather than nice, I suppose. Nick ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
RE: Wife's suggestion!
If I was uncivil, I apologize. I said what it appeared to me to be, but I may be wrong. At any rate, this was addressed, not to those who considered the plea ineffective, but those who began religious arguments. Pat http://idiotgrrl.livejournal.com/ Subject: Re: Wife's suggestion! From: char...@culturelist.org Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 08:24:50 +1000 To: brin-l@mccmedia.com On 23/09/2009, at 2:37 AM, Pat Mathews wrote: We started with a plea for civility and niceness. Because it invoked religion and the name of Jesus, the thread was promptly taken over by those who felt it their bounden duty to object to the Christian content - not on the grunds that they were not Christian, but because they consider it their bounden duty to attack Christianity whenever and wherever they see it, apparently, as evil, superstitious, and whatever else they object to. This is not civil Um. No, ascribing false motive to others and lumping all objecters together is not civil. Arguing whether something is effective because it invokes What would Jesus do? is not the same as attacking Christianity. Charlie. ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
RE: What's to read?
I have a Sony 505. The books on my reader are on my reader and on my desktop, not on my account on someone else's server. If anyone wants to delete them [think 1984] or whatever, they have to physically steal my reader and then delete the book. I own them outright. Nobody else has any rights in the copies I own except, in this state, if I had a legally married spouse. (Community property state). No one gonna take my 505 away http://idiotgrrl.livejournal.com/ Subject: Re: What's to read? From: lear...@mac.com Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 14:12:46 -0500 To: brin-l@mccmedia.com On Sep 21, 2009, at 1:48 AM, Doug Pensinger wrote: BTW, I can't recommend the Kindle enough. T I am using the Kindle app on the iphone and just finished a Baxter SciFi/Alternate history book. Best electronic book interface I have seen so far! learner ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
RE: Wife's suggestion!
Amen. I second, third, or thousandth the motion. Pat http://idiotgrrl.livejournal.com/ From: lear...@mac.com Subject: Wife's suggestion! Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 14:09:36 -0500 To: brin-l@mccmedia.com My wife suggested this. I always go along with her ideas:-) learner Begin forwarded message:Hey! Let’s circulate a request for common courtesy and civility between individuals and groups with opposing ideas. I don’t know about you, but I have become increasingly concerned about the verbiage and rage Americans are expressing to and about one another. Verbal abuse and physical attacks send a damaging message of hostility to our youth and demolish our image to the rest of the world. We can and will disagree, which makes us stronger if we remember that we are all Americans. It’s acceptable to disagree—to not even like one another (including our president). Let’s not confuse freedom of speech with human decency. Just because an action is legal does not make it ethical. Bottom line—We profess to be a Christian nation. It is appropriate to ask, “What would Jesus say and do?” I imagine he disagreed with the actions of those cheating tax collectors and adulterous women he befriended. Yet, we have no record of him calling them names, swearing at them, or making degrading comments. Amazingly, we even have evidence that Jesus loved his enemies. The challenge is to disagree with dignity, intelligence and respect. If you think this is a worthwhile message, please forward it to others.Barbara Frandsen219 fleckba...@stedwards.edu Life is short, Break the rules, Forgive quickly, Kiss slowly, Love truly, Laugh uncontrollably, And never regret anything that made you smile. Life may not be the party we hoped for, but while we're here we should dance. unknown author ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
RE: Krugman endorses behavioral economics
Actually, the best economic prediction I ever heard was in a song: What goes up, must come down. Spinning wheel ,spiinnig around. Talk about your troubles by the riverside. Ride a painted pony let the spinning wheel And for the current decade, The party's over. It's time to call it a day. They've burst your pretty balloon and taken the moon away. It's time to wind up this masquerade, take off your makeup, the party's over, it's all over, my friend http://idiotgrrl.livejournal.com/ Date: Sun, 6 Sep 2009 11:46:55 -0700 Subject: Krugman endorses behavioral economics From: jwilliams4...@gmail.com To: brin-l@mccmedia.com Summary: Krugman implies that most economists either believe in the simplistic Keynesian theory, or the absurd efficient market theory. Neither viewpoint was helpful in predicting the 2008 downturn. But Krugman suggests that another theory, behavioral economics, may have useful predictive ability. [end summary] Perhaps behavioral economics may have more predictive ability than Keynes or EMT. If so, I would like to know why so few economists have been making useful predictions with BE. Behavioral economics is not brand new -- elements of it have been published for decades, and it has certainly received plenty of attention in the past 10 years. If politicians are so concerned with helping the economy, why did they not warn us long ago about impending trouble based on the predictions of people like Shiller and Roubini? Instead of Bernanke reassuring everyone that things were fine just before the 2008 downturn, shouldn't the politicians have been warning us for years that trouble was coming unless we reduced leverage and eliminated all the incentives to sell mortgages to people who could not afford them? Politicians figure that voters do not like Cassandras. They may be right. Perhaps what is needed more than a theory of behavioral economics is a theory of behavioral politics. ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
RE: The Role of Government in a Libertarian Free Market
I've noticed on this and every other list and forum I've ever been on - any thread with the word Libertarian in the title has degenerated into a flame war within a few days. I don't know why. But it's like a massive ad hominem generator. http://idiotgrrl.livejournal.com/ From: lear...@mac.com To: brin-l@mccmedia.com Subject: Re: The Role of Government in a Libertarian Free Market Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 07:25:51 -0500 I am just a lurker here. I seldom post. I follow for information and to watch debates unfold. To help me make up my mind on some of the issues discussed. I personally am not getting much out of the John Williams threads at this moment. Discussing the history, legitimacy and quality of discourse on the list is great for historians and perhaps once and awhile this type of discussion is instructive to new list members. However it does not meet my needs at the moment. I am now invoking my personal filters to reduce the wasted review time. Poud lurker, learner On Aug 17, 2009, at 10:24 PM, David Hobby wrote: I don't have current figures, but I'd guess the list has around 200 subscribers, but only 50 regular posters. (Welcome back, Jo Anne!) We call the other 150 lurkers. ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
RE: The Poop on the Kindle
I love the title of this thread. From what I've been hearing about the Kindle, it perfectly expresses the appropriate consumer reaction to it. http://idiotgrrl.livejournal.com/ Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2009 22:06:43 -0700 Subject: Re: The Poop on the Kindle From: jwilliams4...@gmail.com To: brin-l@mccmedia.com On Sat, Jul 25, 2009 at 9:16 PM, Doug Pensingerbrig...@zo.com wrote: They talked about the whispernet in the instructions I've read so far, but I didn't realize exactly what it was. Before I got the thing I assumed that downloading was via the computer/net. Silly me. I just downloaded a book and it seemed to load pretty quickly. The default is to download over the cell network (I don't like to call it by the saccharine whispernet), but you can choose to download book files to your computer and then transfer to the kindle via USB. Is there any free content? There are free books available on amazon.com. http://www.amazon.com/s/qid=1248584530/ref=sr_st?rs=154606011page=1rh=n%3A133140011%2Cn%3A!133141011%2Cn%3A154606011bbn=154606011sort=price There are other sources as well, just google free kindle books The instructions said there was some sort of pdf translation software but implied that it wasn't free and that it didn't always work right. It also said something about being able to load your own documents. The Kindle DX can display PDF files -- just hook the USB cable to a computer, and the Kindle DX shows up as a MSC device. You can drag book files, PDF files, etc. I believe the Kindle 2 allows you to transfer PDF files from the computer vias USB after filtering through a translation program. Or you can pay a fee for Amazon to translate the PDF file and download it to the Kindle 2 over the cell network. But I'm not positive about any of that (one reason I got the DX was so I did not have to bother with that) ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
RE: Brin-l Digest, Vol 5, Issue 4
But only for the Kindle? Or is there a way to get Kindle books if all you have is a Sony 505? Pat, hopeful http://idiotgrrl.livejournal.com/ From: aking...@kornet.net To: brin-l@mccmedia.com Subject: RE: Brin-l Digest, Vol 5, Issue 4 Date: Sat, 13 Jun 2009 06:40:03 +0900 David Brin answered: John, I have the contracts in-hand, as we speak! With cordial regards, David Brin http://www.davidbrin.com This is really good news! George A ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
RE: Uplift Universe question....
And for that matter, why not bonobos instead of common chimps? They'd be a faster, easier Uplift, wouldn't they? Hmmm... why not dogs for fear they'd out-compete us? Or become such devoted servants they'd pull a Humanoids on us? Or worse yet, for fear they'd be just what the rest of the Uplift universe wanted in its clients, a race that never would be independent because they'd been bred to service too long. http://idiotgrrl.livejournal.com/ Date: Fri, 8 May 2009 07:22:09 -0700 From: nanotreasu...@yahoo.com Subject: Uplift Universe question To: brin-l@mccmedia.com I'm sure that this has been asked many times on this list... so real quickly... Why were no Dogs included in the book Uplift Wars? -Leonard (dog breeder :-D ) ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
RE: Uplift Universe question....
What if they should get the flu? http://idiotgrrl.livejournal.com/ From: rceeber...@comcast.net Seems like a lot of work to me. Dogs are just not that bright to begin with, at least compared to other species that did get uplifted. I would think Swines would be easier. xponent When Swines Flew Maru rob ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Not that it takes a meterologist to know which way the wind was blowing, but -
For the predictions registry from the Beltway: I think we will look back in 10 years' time and say we should not have done this but we did because we forgot the lessons of the past, and that that which is true in the 1930's is true in 2010. --Democratic Senator Byron Dorgan, February 5, 1999 upon repeal of the Glass-Stegall Act. http://idiotgrrl.livejournal.com/ ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
RE: Quiet
I believe five-leaved might be a better idea if he desires to be stoned. http://idiotgrrl.livejournal.com/ From: dml...@gmail.com To: brin-l@mccmedia.com Subject: Re: Quiet Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 23:17:06 -0700 On Mar 17, 2009, at 7:07 PM, William T Goodall wrote: since the Taliban imposed censorship on the list. Stone me Maru Dang. Turn my attention to work for a couple of days, and I miss all the hostilities. As for the stoning, did you have a preference? Igneous, sedimentary or metamorphic? Dave Faith and Begorrah Maru ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Watch the news out of Switzerland -
UBS is starting to look very, very bad. I remember reading Earth and taking the Helvetian War for granted as the major early-21st Century Crisis without bothering to wonder what triggered the public mood of anger at their secrecy and covering up for dictators etc. Now, several months into the current recession, it becomes painfully clear - People will tolerate a lot of this sort of thing while they're making money or have hopes of making money. It's when the economy crashes and takes Main Street down with it that they get out the tar and feathers - and later the nukes. I've been watching it unfold with my own eyes. So - back to Earth - a worldwide economic crash in which the Swiss Bankers appeared to be the primary culprits, and the witch hunt is on until Helvetia glows in the dark. Yes. This makes SUCH good sense. Different timeline, of course, since it's the American financiers who are now in danger of being tarred and feathered and ridden out of town on a rail. But - google for UBS in trouble. http://idiotgrrl.livejournal.com/ ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
The trouble with conspiracy theories
http://counterknowledge.com/2009/02/the-trouble-with-conspiracy-theories/ Basic thesis: little conspiracies exist all over the place. Global conspiracies are un-doable given the inability to herd all those cats. http://idiotgrrl.livejournal.com/ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Score one for transparency!
(THAT'LL teach them to hit the mayor instead of some Joe Sixpack, won't it, folks?) Maryland Bill Would Bring Transparency to Use of SWAT Teams Posted on February 6, 2009, 9:01am | Radley Balko Berwyn Heights, Maryland Mayor Cheye Calvo, who last summer was subjected to a particularly violent mistaken drug raid in which police shot and killed his two black labs, is helping push a new bill in the Maryland legislature that would require every SWAT team in the state to provide to the public a monthly public report on its activities, including where and when it was deployed and whether an operation resulted in arrests, evidence seizures or injuries.This is a terrific first step, and the Maryland legislature needs to pass it. Part of the problem I've encountered reporting on this issue is that police departments tend to to be stingy with this sort of information. Even when it's available, it's often collected in ways that aren't usable. Over the last few years, I've tried to file open records request for copies search warrants, evidence return sheets, and any other documentation of SWAT-related drug raids in several major cities. In addition to being quoted prohibitive copying and labor fees, I've also learned that search warrants and evidence return sheets are usually kept in separate places, making it arduous to match them up once a case has been resolved. In cases where a raid resulted in no charges, the warrants are actually often thrown out. Of course, those are the very cases we want to know about.The bill Calvo's pushing would begin to make data about SWAT teams available, so we can assess how often they're used, in what situations they're used, and, when they're used in drug raids, how often they actually find not only illicit drugs, but the high-power weapons proponents say make these sorts of tactics necessary. In the few places this sort of analysis has been done, the results have been less than convincing.Calvo's bill would also show how many often Maryland's SWAT teams hit the wrong home. It'll be interesting to see how the state's police organizations react. Commenters to the Washington Post article who appear to be police officers seem to be miffed at even this small bit of transparency. Permalink | 7 Comments http://idiotgrrl.livejournal.com/ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Br!n: Congratulations! Today you get rid of... of... what's hisname?
Sure will as soon as I get back to my home computer. It's stored elsewhere. http://idiotgrrl.livejournal.com/ Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 09:56:49 -0600 From: deg...@chiba.3jane.net To: brin-l@mccmedia.com Subject: RE: Br!n: Congratulations! Today you get rid of... of... what's hisname? On Wed, 21 Jan 2009, Pat Mathews wrote: I wrote a filk song entitled The Eagles picked up the ring about the real end of LOTR. They flew it back to the Pentagon will publish here on request. Consider this to be a request. :) Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Br!n: Congratulations! Today you get rid of... of... what's hisname?
I wrote a filk song entitled The Eagles picked up the ring about the real end of LOTR. They flew it back to the Pentagon will publish here on request. http://idiotgrrl.livejournal.com/ Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 22:25:13 -0800 Subject: Re: Br!n: Congratulations! Today you get rid of... of... what's hisname? From: brig...@zo.com To: brin-l@mccmedia.com On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 1:08 PM, Gary Nunn garyn...@newpacifica.net wrote: D Brin wrote: Thanks Alberto. Hoping the world will soon be proud of us! d Bumper sticker sighted yesterday: 1-20-09, The End of an Error Did yo ever see the one: Frodo Failed! Bush has the ring!? Doug ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Financial institution fallout
Yeah. I've been watching this unroll. Though to my shock and horror, I've actually been seeing some of Rand's villains showing up in Washington whining for their bailouts ... I had dismissed her as over-the-top and preachy and impractical for decades! http://idiotgrrl.livejournal.com/ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: brin-l@mccmedia.com Subject: Financial institution fallout Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2008 23:51:20 -0600 I saw an interesting article from the bastion of free enterprise publication, the WSJ, at http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122852289752684407.html It has some interesting analysisand it doesn't seem good. What I find interesting is that it seems to be a balanced analysis, not a polemic for letting the markets decide everything. My feeling is that everyone but those who believe than Atlas Shrugged is the greatest work of philosophy, literature, and economics ever, have been badly shaken by how the market failed. It's not that government was blameless, but they didn't force the 5 investment banking institutions and the biggest insurance company in the world to make the decisions they did. The implications of this article are quite sobering. I don't have time, alas, for an analysis for the list, based on what I read and discussed, but I'll mention one factor here. Fund managers who played things properly, who bet that real estate would not go up forever, quickly found themselves having to explain to their clients year after year after year why they didn't invest in AAA assets. It's like refusing a betting scheme based on there never ever being a straight flush in poker. It usually works, and the person who refuses to get in looks like their losing moneyin this case it would be for decades. Thus, the funds managers who were prudent ether were converted or lost their jobs. I don't think Adam Smith envisioned the GDP of the world being issued as credit default swaps. Dan M. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: One more bit for Veterans Day
At least according to the local TV news tonight, they now have a first-rate veterinary facility to treat their wounds. There were probably times when they would have just been shot. http://idiotgrrl.livejournal.com/ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: brin-l@mccmedia.com Subject: Re: One more bit for Veterans Day Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 17:50:15 -0800 Only, they won't be allowed to marry in certain states. One commentator on NPR noted the irony of several states rejecting Gay marriage in the same election where Barack Obama became president. When Obama was born, quite a few states wouldn't have allowed his white mother and African father to be legally married. And the arguments against it would have been pretty much what we hear from anti-gay groups today. Olin - Original Message - From: Dave Landmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs (David Brin et al) Discussionmailto:brin-l@mccmedia.com Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 4:08 PM Subject: Re: One more bit for Veterans Day On Nov 12, 2008, at 9:22 AM, Olin Elliott wrote: As one of the comments says, Not all heroes have two legs Thanks for this, Ronn. I have worked for a group in the past trying to get a national war dog memorial and the DOD has steadfastly opposed it. A very different look at the dogs of war. Its funny when you think about it, dogs serve in our military, our police forces, they care for the sick and disabled, they work on farms, they are our companions and members of our family -- in fact, they've been a part of our civilization for about 15,000 years by the most convervative estimate. They helped build our civilization, and in every way that counts, they are true citizens. Maybe one day, that will be recognized legally. Only, they won't be allowed to marry in certain states. Dave ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-lhttp://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Monotonous posting
Ditto. Grrr... is a Billy Goat Gruff walking on MY bridge? http://idiotgrrl.livejournal.com/ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: brin-l@mccmedia.com Subject: Re: Monotonous posting Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 15:43:02 -0700 What will cause people to leave this list is trolls who have nothing better to do than exhibit their asperger's syndrome... jon Just for the record, I have Asperger's, and I don't act like a Troll (usually). Bad choice of aspersions there. Olin - Original Message - From: Jon Louis Mannmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs (David Brin et al) Discussionmailto:brin-l@mccmedia.com Sent: 10/20/2008 3:28 PM Subject: Monotonous posting It's been very quiet here since the thought police manifesto. Obvious Maru what manifesto? oblivious maru... I don't think we've ever moderated anybody for frequent off-topic posting, but I'm growing increasingly concerned that many of your postings are a distraction and offensive to some who might otherwise participate. Others,including me, are just plain bored with it, since you haven't written anything new on the topic for a long, long time. I'm growing increasingly concerned that you are trying to use your position on the list to intimidate and silence those with whom you do not agree and that this behaviour could be offensive to some who might otherwise participate. I don't agree that Nick is threating of censorship, or that it would discourage posting if he did. What will cause people to leave this list is trolls who have nothing better to do than exhibit their asperger's syndrome... jon __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.comhttp://mail.yahoo.com/ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-lhttp://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: ZPG
We used to have fifty such testing environments, until the feds decided they had to micromanage us under the Interstate commerce clause - their excuse being that any fungible items could end up in interstate commerce. http://idiotgrrl.livejournal.com/ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: brin-l@mccmedia.com Subject: Re: ZPG Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 03:38:07 +0100 On 18 Sep 2008, at 02:45, Charlie Bell wrote: On 18/09/2008, at 11:32 AM, Bruce Bostwick wrote: I for one would particularly like there to be a simulation environment that could be used to catch unintended consequences like these, as well as alpha and beta test environments with some degree of user acceptance testing and feedback, before social-policy bills are signed out of Congress. Never happen, and I'm probably too much of an engineering-type geek for even thinking about it, but it's an appealing thought nonetheless. The UK has such a test environment. It's called Scotland. Which is one reason why the SNP gained control of the Scottish Parliament. Poll Tax Maru -- William T Goodall Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/ “Babies are born every day without an iPod. We will get there.” - Adam Sohn, the head of public relations for Microsoft's Zune division. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Free Market
Who cares if the mice nibble the crust, as long as the bread is still there? Mercedes Lackey, Storm Breaking http://idiotgrrl.livejournal.com/ Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 13:22:30 -0400 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: brin-l@mccmedia.com Subject: Re: Free Market On Fri, Sep 12, 2008 at 1:06 PM, Dave Land [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sep 12, 2008, at 4:09 AM, Alberto Monteiro wrote: Charlie Bell wrote: Oh, I thought it was just what tax is - it's giving up some of your wealth to pay for roads, schools, infrastructure, basic health needs and basic support for society. In theory. In practice, tax is used to finance the tax-collecting nomenklatura and the parasites that infest the congress. Adjusting for the natural greed and malfeasance of human beings (which must always be taken into account, because they've always been a factor), taxes are the dues we pay for being part of a society. They're the bit that each of us chips in to provide the things that none of us could possibly afford in private. Dave ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l Taxes are the price we pay for civilization. -- Oliver Wendell Holmes Jr. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Sore losers
Nationalism is just another step in the ladder of Me and Not-Me, Family and Not-Family, Tribe and Not-Tribe.And what is the next step after nationalism? Judging from history and what I see around me, something very similar to Citizen and Not-Citizen. A Citizen being defined as anyone of any national or racial origin or original condition who is willing to learn the language, obey the laws, and behave according to the values of the - let's be truthful here - Empire.http://idiotgrrl.livejournal.com/ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: brin-l@mccmedia.com Subject: Re: Sore losers Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 23:28:15 -0700 On Aug 27, 2008, at 1:25 PM, Jon Louis Mann wrote: nationalism is an aberration that is found in many countries, and tobe abhorred. it is especially repugnant in nations where theircitizens actually believe they are better than other nations (likesome french, saudi, israeli, japanese citizens, etc.). I think that nationalism is not an aberration at all. I would be willing to guess that it is a larger form of xenophobia, which I would be further willing to guess conferred evolutionary advantages: kill off the other guys and your genes live on. The other guys can be other guys in the tribe (to hell with you guys, I am going to be the one whose genes live on in this tribe), other tribes (to hell with those guys, we are going to be the ones...) and so forth. We even had a racist dog when I was a kid. He was raised by my family of white people in a neighborhood of mostly white people, so when black kids from the projects walked by, who were different, he went nuts. Then again, dogs are remarkable at picking up subtle clues in the behavior of their human companions, and my dad was quite a racist. The dog may have known that black people were bad because he saw his master tense up when they were around. Different is Dangerous Maru Dave ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Sore losers
The age of the gymnasts is not an arbitrary rule that should be eliminated. My daughter was in gymnastics for a while. Training at Olympic level is very hard on growing bones and muscles, and it is easy for a youngster still growing to do permanent damage to his or her body. My other daughter was in age-group track and field and they were very careful about that, including having well-defined age levels and rules and standards for each. This has been a problem in the past in other school sports where the kids may have the power for the sport but have not yet reached their full growth. http://idiotgrrl.livejournal.com/ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Sore losers
Training is fine; competition at the Olympic level and the training necessary for *that* is too much for growing bodies. Vault and beam are fine - kids do that sort of thing for fun, in fact,and always have. But still, the Games should be for adults. http://idiotgrrl.livejournal.com/ Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 12:31:11 -0700 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Sore losers To: brin-l@mccmedia.com The age of the gymnasts is not an arbitrary rule that should be eliminated. My daughter was in gymnastics for a while. Training at Olympic level is very hard on growing bones and muscles, and it is easy for a youngster still growing to do permanent damage to his or her body. My other daughter was in age-group track and field and they were very careful about that, including having well-defined age levels and rules and standards for each. This has been a problem in the past in other school sports where the kids may have the power for the sport but have not yet reached their full growth. http://idiotgrrl.livejournal.com/ if that is the reason for creating the rule, perhaps it should be extended so young children are not allowed to start training until their bodies have matured, and the vault and beam competitions should be eliminated altogether, for obvious reasons... jon ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Sore losers
Ah. Gotcha. Yeah - we played sports, but today? Play? What's that? Something you make a playdate for. Don't get me started; I think my grandbabies are hideously overprotected. http://idiotgrrl.livejournal.com/ Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 13:07:30 -0700 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Sore losers To: brin-l@mccmedia.com ---Pat Mathews [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Training is fine; competition at the Olympic level and the training necessary for *that* is too much for growing bodies. Vault and beam are fine - kids do that sort of thing for fun, in fact,and always have. But still, the Games should be for adults. doing flips on a four inch beam are not fine for kids, even if they do it all the time. neither are boxing, football and a host of other dangerous sports. when i grew up we played sports, and it was fun... jon ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Sore losers
Bummer! Where were you living? Because my daughters escaped that, and this town is a lot quieter now than it was then. http://idiotgrrl.livejournal.com/ Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 20:16:40 -0500 To: brin-l@mccmedia.com From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Sore losers At 03:13 PM Wednesday 8/27/2008, Pat Mathews wrote: Ah. Gotcha. Yeah - we played sports, but today? Play? What's that? Something you make a playdate for. Don't get me started; I think my grandbabies are hideously overprotected. What do you do when several times each year in your town kids get shot dead in the park, walking down the street, standing on the balcony outside their apartment door, or when a bullet comes through the window or wall (all of them being collateral damage rather than the target of whatever gang or gangs are doing the shooting)? Unprintable Opinion Maru . . . ronn! :) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Apology (was Re: Off-topic., monotonous posting (was Child-killing religion))
I can't speak for other members of the list's silent majority. I, for one, see another news article on some cult or its members run amok,yawn, and hit Delete. Just thought you'd want to know. http://idiotgrrl.livejournal.com/ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: brin-l@mccmedia.com Subject: Re: Apology (was Re: Off-topic., monotonous posting (was Child-killing religion)) Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 11:55:55 +0100 On 21 Aug 2008, at 11:04, Charlie Bell wrote: On 21/08/2008, at 7:48 PM, William T Goodall wrote: Newness is a rather high standard to set. Most of the arguments are quite old but still not settled. But you're not arguing, you're just posting third party articles that reinforce your worldview. What's wrong with that? The silent majority on the list love reading my posts about the pernicious evil of religion. I don't think a couple of whiners should get to dictate to everybody else what gets posted here. I mostly agree with your worldview, but I'm still tired of seeing articles I've mostly read elsewhere reprinted in full here by you. But people who don't agree may not have seen them. One of the primary community values of this list is diversity of opinion. Yes, but we all know yours already. Well maybe we can just all post our geek codes and then shut the list :-) Expression Maru -- William T Goodall Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/ Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Greg Bear
I got the first line, anyway. A dozen, a gross, and a score and am far too lazy to do the calculations and figure out the rest. http://idiotgrrl.livejournal.com/ Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 16:56:26 -0500 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: brin-l@mccmedia.com Subject: Re: Greg Bear On Thu, 21 Aug 2008, Dave Land wrote: On Aug 21, 2008, at 1:06 PM, Julia Thompson wrote: On Thu, 21 Aug 2008, David Hobby wrote: Mauro Diotallevi wrote: On 8/21/08, Julia Thompson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Great, now I feel old -- I checked it out of the library in college after a friend of mine had recommended it, and it was fairly new at the time. (As in, not out in paperback yet.) How about a limerick to cheer you up? ((12 + 144 + 20 + (3 * 4^(1/2))) / 7) + (5 * 11) = 9^2 + 0 (limerick by John Saxon) Mauro-- Thanks, but I had to google for the answer. Without having seen previous examples of the form, I got about as far as Twelve plus one-forty-four. I was having a hard time rhyming twenty with square root of four until I realized that 12, 144, and 20 have special names... I can't forget that they have special names. I mean, any time we have 144 of something, either my husband or myself says to the other, That's gross. Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Governments...
And better practiced in his day than in ours! Despite his flirtation with an Act that's becoming our governmental standard. http://idiotgrrl.livejournal.com/ Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2008 12:49:22 -0700 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Governments... To: brin-l@mccmedia.com www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/08152008/profile.html www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/blog/2008/08/michael_winship_andrew_bacevic.html Chris Frandsen “While all other sciences have advanced, government is at a stand; little better practiced now than three or four thousand years ago.” John Adams http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20071010221130AAnrFCf This is why I keep trying: http://www.smartvoter.org/2006/11/07/ca/la/vote/mann_j/ I could use some help setting up my greensm.org site. Jon ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Genesis
BTW - when you talk about people working longer, don't assume we are all leaving the work force early because we want to. While firing people because of their age is illegal in the United States, giving them poor performance reviews, making their lives miserable, etc can be done and often is. Older workers are expensive, too independent, represent roadblocks in the path of the younger generation - and BTW, if the organization can get them out before they're fully vested, it can save itself a ton of money. Bin there dun that, made it to being vested just barely, with the help of a staff advocate - who was later transferred to a position where she could do less harm or good. http://idiotgrrl.livejournal.com/ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: brin-l@mccmedia.com Subject: RE: Genesis Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2008 18:16:03 -0500 People will have to work longer. As life expectancies continue to increase, retirement age will have to increase too. I understand that, and that's reasonable. The retirement age for Social Security in the US has been moved up from 65 to 67 for folks my age and will be 68 for folks a few years younger. Germany will absolutely have to get rid of retirement at 55. But, I've seen international studies on aging, and only 3 developed countries (as of 6 years ago) seemed to be marginally OK with handling the aging of their population. The rest were in various degrees of trouble from big to very big. Part of it is that, even with advances, we tend to slow down in our 70s, at least on average. We cannot expect the same hours of work of a 75 year old as a 30 year old. I had been interested in this, so I did three different scenarios. I have results in a number of different forms, but let me just give a couple. First, assume Europe's population distribution and a constant life expectancy of about 78 years, and the EU fertility rate of 1.5. We'd get the following age distribution: Now 50 years 20 21.7% 15.8% 20-40 26.8% 19.9% 40-60 28.4% 24.3% 60-80 18.4% 25.9% 80+ 4.8%14.0% Then I added a 1 year per decade increase in life expectancy. I got: 20 21.7% 14.4% 20-40 26.8% 18.2% 40-60 28.4% 22.2% 60-80 18.4% 25.0% 80+ 4.8%20.2% Finally, I took a long term ZPG society, with the life expectancy increase of 1 year per decade. I got: 20 30.4% 24.0% 20-40 28.1% 23.4% 40-60 23.0% 21.9% 60-80 14.0% 19.5% 80+ 4.6%11.3% You see the biggest contributor is the near 30% drop in population per generation due to the fertility rate, not the aging of the population because people live longer. Dan M. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Poetic justice
I have been trying to live within my means. In May my car needed $2,000 worth of repairs. June my vet bill ran over $600. This month the plumber is at my house roto-rooting the main line and the line between the sink and the washing machine. I could, of course, cut down the tree whose roots are in the line (MORE expense) and give away the cats. Except that they're not property; they are living beings in my care. Sigh. 'Taint always easy. http://idiotgrrl.livejournal.com/ Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2008 15:03:13 -0700 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Poetic justice To: brin-l@mccmedia.com Those two idiots, with able assistance from Republicans in Congress, have managed to screw up the American economy so badly that demand is falling. That does have the effect of putting downward pressure on gas prices, which should be received with great joy by all the Americans who lost their jobs, their homes, ... Regards, -- Kevin B. O'Brien i am one of those americans who lost my job, but fortunately my mortgage is paid up. i was not foolish enough to take on a mortgage with balloon payments, and was fortunate to be able to buy before the bubble. even though i lost my job, i will be able to survive starting over at the bottom of the pay scale because i don't live beyond my means. what is happening to many americans is just deserts for living high off the hog for so long. it is time to respect the planet, and pay the piper for materialistic excess. i don't miss driving my car, and riding my bicycle is far better for my health, anyway. jon ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: memes, or genes...
Actually, that is standard Roman Catholic teaching as well. Except that a lot of American Catholics don't do it. http://idiotgrrl.livejournal.com/ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: brin-l@mccmedia.com Subject: Re: memes, or genes... Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2008 10:55:02 -0500 On Jul 26, 2008, at 6:56 AM, William T Goodall wrote: On 26 Jul 2008, at 03:25, Bruce Bostwick wrote: There's one particular domestic religious movement here in this country that is presently doing exactly that. It's probably not the first one most people might think. Google quiverfull for more info, the first half dozen hits will tell you a lot. Is there no limit to the depraved wickedness of the religionists? Not so far, or at least if there is a limit, they don't seem to have found it yet. Thank you all for coming around to the self-evident point I made five minutes ago. -- Toby Ziegler ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Indigo and Umami
Actually the colors are or, argent, gules, vert, azul, purpure, and sable. http://idiotgrrl.livejournal.com/ Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2008 03:07:18 -0500 To: brin-l@mccmedia.com From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Indigo and Umami At 03:14 PM Tuesday 7/22/2008, Julia Thompson wrote: On Tue, 22 Jul 2008, Mauro Diotallevi wrote: On Sat, Jul 19, 2008 at 10:04 PM, William T Goodall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There used to be seven colours in a rainbow and four basic flavours (sweet, sour, bitter, salt) and then indigo became a shade of violet and umami became the fifth basic flavour. I thought that there were still 7 colors of the rainbow *including* indigo. I learned the colors as ROY G BIV -- Red Orange Yellow Green Blue Indigo Violet. Or did you learn a different system? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indigo Color scientists do not usually recognize indigo as a significant color category, and generally classify wavelengths shorter than about 450 nm as violet. Also, there's a source text from the 19th century at Wikipedia on this very question; the tinyurl for it is http://tinyurl.com/5f8afl My resident color expert says it's just a word game. :) Then again, he knows more about color *science* than color *words*. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rainbow#The_place_of_indigo All the Roy G. Biv mnemonics follow the tradition of including the colour indigo between blue and violet. Newton originally (1672) named only five primary colours: red, yellow, green, blue and violet. Only later did he introduce orange and indigo, giving seven colours by analogy to the number of notes in a musical scale. Some sources now omit indigo, because it is a tertiary color and partly due to the poor ability of humans to distinguish colours in the blue portion of the visual spectrum. My kids' crayon boxes have red, orange, yellow, green, blue and violet; if you buy a box of 8 crayons, you get all those but not indigo. I personally conform to the crayon box school of rainbow colors. (Oh, and Resident Color Expert warns that magenta, pink and brown are *not* rainbow colors, just in case anyone thought any of them might be, or ought to be.) Magenta, however, is a secondary additive color, or a primary subtractive color, along with cyan and yellow. . . . ronn! :) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Dollar a gallon gasoline
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2008 03:04:02 -0500 To: brin-l@mccmedia.com From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Showing again that the underlying problem is that people must renounce greed and selfishness and replace them with cooperation and altruism. . . . ronn! :) Great idea. Wrong species. E.O. Wilson http://idiotgrrl.livejournal.com/ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: USA presidential race(ism)
Cue Bruce Springsteenhttp://idiotgrrl.livejournal.com/ Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2008 15:48:18 -0400 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: brin-l@mccmedia.com Subject: Re: USA presidential race(ism) On Thu, Jun 19, 2008 at 3:34 PM, Alberto Monteiro [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Both McCain and Obama were born outside of the continental USA (Panama and Hawaii, respectively). I don't know too much about USA history, but was there any POTUS that was not born in the continental USA? Maybe the next one will be born even outsider (like Austria...) Alberto Monteiro ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l technically, the first seven Presidents were born in what was at the time, colonies of the British Empire. the first President to be born after the US became an independent country was Martin Van Buren. John McCain was born in the Panama Canal Zone to a serving US Navy officer and is considered a natural born citizen. Barack Obama was born in Hawaii after it became a state. until the Constitution is changed to permit naturalized citizens to become President, no one born in Austria will be elected President. john ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Restricting, not: culling the species
Deborah Harrell says: I think we ought to have adaptation classes for those unfamiliar with our ideal values. I totally agree. Enrollees will include a good many people who think that granting habeas corpus to accesed enemies of the State means we will all be murdered in our beds; those who think torture is an excellent and moral means of getting information out of suspects; and those who think that judges holding us to the Bill of Rights (which their oath binds them to do) are activist and therefore out of line; and those who think the law and the Constitution are not binding on the nation's chief executive. http://idiotgrrl.livejournal.com/ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Restricting, not: culling the species
One more answer to Debbi - this time about GreenTechnology - as I sit here in my midcentury box in the desert with the swamp cooler running - people used to build for the climate. There once was a huge body of knowledge about how to do so. No high tech required; just the good services of an historian and an architect working in tandem. And wouldn't I dearly love to have a house built to such standards today without tearnign mine down and redoing it totally! Alas; a midcentury box (though rather charming in many ways) was what I could afford. And those were designed around the presence - the ubiquity - of the a/c. http://idiotgrrl.livejournal.com/ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: CITOKATE
Some of the criticism I get on a forum supposedly dedicated to intellectual analysis of a theoretical book has so often degenerated into name calling that they set up a special Flame Wars thread just for that. Did it work? No. So be prepared to filter out a lot of Fascist! Well, you're a Liberal, so of COURSE you hate America!!, not to mention sexual innuendo etc. I think most criticism needs an On Topic moderator. http://idiotgrrl.livejournal.com/ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: culling the species
Actually, you can get much the same result with vast numbers of jobs for women and high-paying jobs that call for more education. That are actually accessible to low-income or third world women by following a few straightforward steps, results guaranteed if she works at it. That will result in girls postponing marriage and/or childbirth and having fewer children, since it will interfere with her profesionnal development and all that lovely money. This is not only not racist nor anti-human, it is precisely the opposite. There are many routes to the same goal. Some are better than others. http://idiotgrrl.livejournal.com/ Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 04:50:48 -0500 To: brin-l@mccmedia.com From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: culling the species At 10:23 PM Monday 4/28/2008, jon louis mann wrote: i care more about the extinction of plant and animal species than humanity. jon h... i really don't think taking my own life will help matters... jon But in either case the result for you is the same. I'm simply trying to get across in this discussion how offensive I find it when anyone suggests that the death of every human on Earth or a substantial fraction of them is A Good Thing, especially when the people making the suggestion are clearly talking about Someone Else doing the dying, and one way to get across how offensive it is is to ask the people who are convinced that it would be such A Good Thing why they don't lead by example instead of (implicitly or explicitly) expecting Someone Else who does not necessarily agree that it would be A Good Thing if most or all humans died off to do the dying . . . . . . ronn! :) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Adressing Global Warming
Great idea! I'm looking forward to meeting your extended family in your new tenement apartment. Especially the little kids. http://idiotgrrl.livejournal.com/ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: brin-l@mccmedia.com Subject: Re: Adressing Global Warming Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2008 14:36:53 + Charlie Bell wrote: Yeah. The point of solar hot water is it's so cheap, and pays for itself very quickly (3 - 5 years) if it's installed in a new house. So while it'll never amount to a huge percentage, it's still an inexpensive way of saving a significant amount of energy. So, like mandating loft and wall insulation and double-glazing (and rainwater tanks) these are small but significant contributions that everyone can do. Reducing the total energy consumption of a house by 15 - 20% is a lot of energy that you don't need to generate! sarcasm Yeah, place every single family of the 6 Giga humans in houses with solar power... This would be very friendly to the environment! /sarcasm Seriously, if we want to save the planet, domestic solar power should be banned! People should live and work in the smallest possible area, and it means packing families in huge buildings. Alberto Monteiro ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Food Wars
If you go to the Powell's website, you'll find a blurb for a book which described in detail how the author's family lived on potatoes and bland, processed (or packaged) products scavenged... during one spell of poverty. Enjoy them, mashed, fried, and mixed with onions. http://idiotgrrl.livejournal.com/ Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2008 09:32:14 -0500 To: brin-l@mccmedia.com From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Food Wars At 08:23 PM Wednesday 4/23/2008, jon louis mann wrote: Doesn't take much disruption in the supply chain to cause havoc. Petrol in Melbourne is now $1.51 a litre (USD1.43 a litre, or about $5.70 a gallon). Charlie. here in the usa, people will manage; poverty in america is wealth in africa. it will be good for americans to learn to be thrifty. they did it during the depression, and can do it again. we have always had cheap gas, so it is time for us to tighten our belts and lose some of that fat... jon Of course, there have been many, particularly in SF but others also, who not long ago talked about their vision of the future of the real world where technology made everybody rich (or at least the equivalent of middle-class or better by then contemporary US standards) . . . . . . ronn! :) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Courage in facing death
Blessings on her and your dad and you. My sister died the same way, so I know how it hurts. http://idiotgrrl.livejournal.com/ Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2008 14:19:08 -0700 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Courage in facing death To: brin-l@mccmedia.com Years ago, someone asked me who my real-life heroes were (as opposed to frex Captain Picard), and thought it odd when I replied, after some thought, that my parents were. That answer remains true today, having watched them confront my mom's pancreatic cancer, diagnosed just over three years ago; not in-your-face bravery, but the tight-lipped determination to fight such a terminal diagnosis with everything (surgery, radiation, chemotherapy), and then the long, long journey toward accepting that some wars cannot be won. Not graceful acquiescence, not pretty surrender - while Mom portrayed the gracious officer's wife flawlessly, she grew up in the projects of Philidelphia, and never lost that inner tough core - but begrudging retreat when the cancer returned last year. Dad's steadfast faithfulness never ceased, though I am sure it must have wobbled at times. She died at home, as she wished. Debbi Bless Hospice Maru Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
The Postman
http://pbfcomics.com/?cid=PBF202-Post_Apocalyptic.jpg http://idiotgrrl.livejournal.com/ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Interesting Day
And Thursday was one of the 8 pagan holidays, the Spring Equinoxhttp://idiotgrrl.livejournal.com/ Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2008 20:39:00 -0500 To: brin-l@mccmedia.com From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Fwd: Interesting Day Good Friday! Happy Purim, Eid, etc... Wednesday, Mar. 19, 2008 By DAVID VAN BIEMA WITH SIMON ROBINSON/NEW DELHI On Friday more than a billion Christians around the world will mark the gravest observance on their Calendar, Good Friday, the day Jesus died on the cross. (To be followed in two days by Easter Sunday, to mark his Resurrection). But unlike some holy days, say, Christmas, which some non-Christians in the U.S. observe informally by going to a movie and ordering Chinese food, on this particular Friday, March 21, it seems almost no believer of any sort will be left without his or her own holiday. In what is statistically, at least, a once-in-a-millennium combination, the following will all occur on the 21st: Good Friday Purim, a Jewish festival celebrating the biblical book of Esther Narouz, the Persia n New Year, which is observed with Islamic elaboration in Iran and all the stan countries, as well as by Zoroastrians and Baha'is. Eid Milad an Nabi, the Birth of the Prophet, which is celebrated by some but not all Sunni Muslims and, though officially beginning on Thursday, is often marked on Friday. Small Holi, Hindu, an Indian festival of bonfires, to be followed on Saturday by Holi, a kind of Mardi Gras. Magha Puja, a celebration of the Buddha's first group of followers, marked primarily in Thailand. Half the world's population is going to be celebrating something, says Raymond Clothey, Professor Emeritus of Religious studies at the University of Pittsburgh. My goodness, says Delton Krueger, owner of www.interfaithcalendar.org, who follows 14 major religions and six others. He counts 20 holidays altogether (including some religious double-dips, like Maundy Thursday and Good Friday) between the 20th (which is also quite crowded) and t he 21st. He marvels: There is no other time in 2008 when there is this kind of concentration. And in fact for quite a bit longer than that. Ed Reingold and Nachum Dershowitz, co-authors of the books Calendrical Calculations and Calendrical Tabulations, determined how often in the period between 1600 and 2400 A.D. Good Friday, Purim, Narouz and the Eid would occur in the same week. The answer is nine times in 800 years. Then they tackled the odds that they would converge on a two-day period. And the total is ... only once: tomorrow. And that's not even counting Magha Puja and Small Holi. Unless you are mathematically inclined, however, you may not see the logic in all this. If it's the 21st of March, you may ask, shouldn't all the religions of the world celebrate the same holiday on that date each year? No. There are a sprinkling of major holidays (Western Christmas is one) that fall each year on the same day of the Gregorian calendar, a f airly standard non-religious system and the one Americans are most familiar with. But almost none of tomorrow's holidays actually follows that calendar. All Muslim holy days, for instance, are calculated on a lunar system. Keyed to the phases of the moon, Islam's 12 months are each 29 and a half days long, for a total of 354 days a year, or 11 days fewer than on ours. That means the holidays rotate backward around the Gregorian calendar, occurring 11 days earlier each year. That is why you can have an easy Ramadan in the spring, when going without water all day is relatively easy, or a hard one in the summer. And why the Prophet's birthday will be on March 9 next year. Then there is the Jewish calendar, which determines the placement of Purim. It is lunisolar, which means that holidays wander with the moon until they reach the end of what might be thought of as a month-long tether, which has the effect of maintaining them in the same seaso n every year. Good Friday, meanwhile, like many of the other most important Christian holidays, is a set number of days before Easter. The only problem is that the date of Easter is probably the most complicated celebratory calculation this side of Hinduism, which has a number of competing religious calendars. The standard rule is the Sunday after the first full moon on or after the day of the vernal equinox. But in fact, the actual divination of the date is so involved that it has its own offical name: computus. And so challenging that Carl Friedrich Gauss, one of history's greatest mathematicians, devoted the time to create an algorithm for it. It goes on for many lines. And, of course, it doesn't work for Eastern Orthodox Easter (about one month later than the Western Christian one this year, on April 27). So, should we celebrate all these celebrations? Yes, says William Paden, the author of Religious Worlds: The Comparative Study
RE: Moses was high on drugs: Israeli researcher
Suppose you are a brain in a jar, a prisoner in Plato's cave, or in the Matrix. Then you have two choices. You can play the game as if it were serious, as all god game players do, and treat real life as real; or you can do as Plato;s escaped prisoner and Neo did, work your way free, and try to get to --- ---to the real world? Or simply to the next level of the game? Aye, there's the rub. And most of us have a lot of trouble deciding whether we're pawns or queens. Many of us who have decided are quite visibly mistaken as far as our fellow players are concerned. http://idiotgrrl.livejournal.com/ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: brin-l@mccmedia.com Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2008 16:56:37 + Subject: Re: Moses was high on drugs: Israeli researcher On 5 Mar 2008 at 16:28, William T Goodall wrote: On 5 Mar 2008, at 16:07, Andrew Crystall wrote: On 5 Mar 2008 at 12:23, William T Goodall wrote: Others might argue that the doors of perception were cleansed, letting one see another level of reality that was always there. Hallucinations are just the brain running wonky, not 'another level of reality'. Prove you're not hallucinating your life, and you're not just a brain in a jar :) (The number of contradictions in this world? Jar is a shitload simpler) So either you really believe you are a brain in a jar or you don't believe your own argument. So why make it Maru? Ah, but the point is you don't believe in the first place, hence you do accept the contradictions. Stick, poke! Bad Andrew :/ AndrewC ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Ape Genius on NOVA last night
The story you're loking for is Robert Heinlein's Jerry Was a Man Never judge a book by its movie. http://idiotgrrl.livejournal.com/ Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 14:26:35 -0800 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Ape Genius on NOVA last night To: brin-l@mccmedia.com I wrote: snip More on those spear-makers: http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/ngm/2008-04/chimps-with-spears/roach-text.html [from a reporter's visit with researcher Jill Pruetz] Shades of a short story, title and author not recalled, of granting legal status to a cigarette-smoking chimp (who had learned to delay gratification, IIRC): ...New Zealand, the Netherlands, Sweden, and the United Kingdom have all passed legislation limiting experimentation on great apes, and the Balearic Islands in Spain passed a resolution in 2007 granting them basic legal rights. In 2006 an Austrian animal rights organization submitted an application to a district court in Mödling to appoint a legal guardian for a chimp named Hiasl. The strategy was to establish legal person status for the hairy defendant... Chimp behavior snippets: ...I had not known that chimpanzee yawns are contagious—both among each other and to humans. I had known that chimps laugh, but I did not know that they get upset if someone laughs at them.* I knew that captive chimps spit, but I hadn't known that they, like us, seem to consider spitting the most extreme expression of disgust—one reserved, interestingly, for humans. I knew that a captive ape might care for a kitten if you gave one to it, but had not heard of a wild chimpanzee taking one in, as Tia did with a genet kitten. The list goes on. Chimps get up to get snacks in the middle of the night. They lie on their backs and do the airplane with their children. They kiss. Shake hands. Pick their scabs before they're ready...As a colleague of Pruetz's once said to her, A chimp takes a crap in the forest, and someone publishes a paper about it. (No exaggeration. One paper has a section on chimpanzees' use of leaf napkins: This hygienic technology is directed to their bodily fluids (blood, semen, feces, urine, snot). ... Their use ranges from delicate dabbing to vigorous wiping... *Cats also recognize the difference between laughing with (as when they're playing with you and being silly) and being made fun of (as when they completely muff a usually-gracefully-executed move), and when your laughter has nothing whatsoever to do with them (as at the TV or a book). Debbi More Fodder For The Humorists Maru ;) Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: One for Pat
Where can you get a 200 pound cat? Go into the woods in any mountain range in the Southwest and Rockey Mountain West with a chunk of raw meat and call Here, gato, gato, gato. Never judge a book by its movie. http://idiotgrrl.livejournal.com/ Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 18:44:14 -0500 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: brin-l@mccmedia.com Subject: Re: One for Pat Deborah Harrell wrote: ... C. Familiaris, which ranges in size from a 2-pound Mexican version to 200 pounds, is this animal, and one of the three responded What is a cat? blink Maybe if Garfield's belly expands intradimensionally...? IMO, any dog that weighs less than a cat is bound to have serious emotional problems. :P Debbi Constant Quivering Maru Debbi-- Yes, I saw that too. In fairness, it was Teen Jeopardy. My first thought was, Where can I get a 200 pound cat? : ) ---David Catus Familiaris, Maru ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Polygamy
Two reasons besides patrilocality that males might be more valuable: Heavy labor it takes a lot of muscle mass - especially upper body muscle mass - to do. Nonmechanized warfare, ditto. So you want sons to push the ox-plow and sons to wield a sword. Never judge a book by its movie. http://idiotgrrl.livejournal.com/ Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2008 21:48:11 -0500 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: brin-l@mccmedia.com Subject: Re: Polygamy hkhenson wrote: At 01:00 PM 2/4/2008, Alberto wrote: Keith Henson wrote: Considering that polygamy is the norm for the vast majority of the cultures in the world, it's an interesting question how the western countries, and a few others, became monogamous. It seems to be associated with settled agriculture but I don't know if there is a connection or why. I would guess that it's peace that doomed polygamy. There can't be polygamy unless there's more women than men, otherwise the men without women will revolt. This does not square with field anthropology. Polygamy is well known in cultures where female infanticide and distorted sex ratios are prevalent. Polygamy greatly exacerbated women's scarcity and direct and indirect male competition and conflict over them. Indeed, a cross-cultural study (Otterbein 1994: 103) has found polygamy to be ... Sorry to shoot down your thoughts. Please try again because I would really like to understand it and am clean out of ideas. Keith Keith-- Hi. This is interesting. First, just for clarification, do the studies have direct evidence of female infanticide, or do they deduce it from the skewed sex ratio? (There is some evidence that the ratio can be made to vary from the norm without infanticide. Just checking...) The part I have trouble with is why it would be in the parent's interest to have male children rather than females. In terms of number of descendants, it seems that females would actually be a better choice if the sex ratio was skewed. (Pretending that each female has 3 children, wouldn't it be better on the average to have a female child which gave 3 grandchildren, rather than a male child with a 1 in 10 chance of surviving to have a harem of 5 women, say? Since the male produces 0.1 * 5 * 3 = 1.5 grandchildren, on average.) So the argument would be that the parents are responding to social forces. For instance, that a female child costs them for its upbringing, but provides little return on investment, since she's going to go live with her husband's family anyway? (i.e. patrilocality) And the parents may even need to provide a dowry. Whereas grown male children will at least attempt to pay back their parents, and may even get rich? (I guess I have classical China in mind, or something.) Claiming social forces produce this effect doesn't really address the basic question, though. WHY is this way of organizing a society stable? In economic terms, a scarcity of women should make them more valuable. This would put them (or their parents) in a better bargaining position. So that instead of paying a dowry, parents gradually wind up being paid a bride price... ---David It takes a certain mindset to do this kind of analysis, doesn't it? : ) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: David Brin on History Channel 1/21/08
Great! I had a meeting that ran past 8pm Monday Never judge a book by its movie. http://idiotgrrl.livejournal.com/ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: David Brin on History Channel 1/21/08 Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 16:11:29 -0800 To: brin-l@mccmedia.com On Jan 20, 2008, at 1:49 PM, d.brin wrote: Catch me on the History Channel's Life After People - January 21 at 9pm. A pretty cool show about how all our works may crumble, if we humans ever... well... vanish. The show will be rebroadcast Wednesday 1/23/08 at 8pm/7Central. Dave ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: On the American Standard front.....
That's odd. It was #3 that I found unfunny. http://idiotgrrl.livejournal.com/ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: brin-l@mccmedia.com Subject: Re: On the American Standard front. Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 18:45:00 -0700 On Jan 9, 2008, at 6:41 PM, Robert Seeberger wrote: Some funny toilets and environs... http://madhattannights.com/the-worlds-funniest-bathrooms/ That first one is not funny at all. -- Warren Ockrassa Blog | http://indigestible.nightwares.com/ Books | http://books.nightwares.com/ Web | http://www.nightwares.com/ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: US Doomed
The President of the United States should not have the power to declare what science teachers should teach. That it's even a remote possibility is a sign of federal mission creep - and presidential mission creep on top of it - so severe I'd be sorely tempted to vote for Ron Paul if I weren't a Democrat! http://idiotgrrl.livejournal.com/ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: brin-l@mccmedia.com Subject: US Doomed Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2008 14:41:39 + if creationist president elected: scientists WASHINGTON (AFP) — A day after ordained Baptist minister Mike Huckabee finished first in the opening round to choose a Republican candidate for the White House, scientists warned Americans against electing a leader who doubts evolution. The logic that convinces us that evolution is a fact is the same logic we use to say smoking is hazardous to your health or we have serious energy policy issues because of global warming, University of Michigan professor Gilbert Omenn told reporters at the launch of a book on evolution by the National Academy of Sciences (NAS). I would worry that a president who didn't believe in the evolution arguments wouldn't believe in those other arguments either. This is a way of leading our country to ruin, added Omenn, who was part of a panel of experts at the launch of Science, Evolution and Creationism. Former Arkansas governor Huckabee said in a debate in May that he did not believe in evolution. A poll conducted last year showed that 53 percent of Americans do believe that humans developed over millions of years from less advanced forms of life -- the theory of evolution -- while 47 percent do not. Some of those polled said they believed in both evolution and the opposing theory of creationism -- the belief that God created mankind at a single point in time. The evolution versus creationism debate has crept into American schools and politics, where it is mainly conservative Republicans who espouse the non-scientific belief. In 2004, a Pennsylvania school district found itself at the center of a national storm after its education board voted to require that a statement on creationism be read to students when they began learning about evolution in science class. The school board was ousted the following year. Science, Evolution and Creationism targets the general public and teachers, and presents in simple terms the current scientific understanding of evolution and the importance of teaching it in the science classroom. Doomed Maru -- William T Goodall Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/ Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Recent human selection
But in a caste system such as India has, you also had downward mobility. A person could lose caste in various ways and sink downwards, especially as conditions were so crowded and harsh the very lowest of castes would probably not have reproduced themselves. http://idiotgrrl.livejournal.com/ Now is the winter of our discontent Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 10:52:33 -0700 To: brin-l@mccmedia.com From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Recent human selection Being much influenced by the concepts of evolutionary psychology, I have tended to discount the idea of humans being much shaped by recent evolution. Exceptions have been accumulating, the taming of wild foxes in as few as 8 generations, and the acquisition of genes (a number of them!) for adult lactose tolerance in peoples with a dairy culture. Yes, you can get serious population average shifts if the selection pressure is high enough. Now Dr. Gregory Clark, in one of those huge efforts that lead to breakthroughs, has produced a study that makes a strong case for recent (last few hundred years) and massive changes in population average psychological traits. It leaves in place that a huge part of our psychological traits did indeed come out of the stone age, but adds to that recent and very strong selection pressures on the population of settled agriculture societies in the Malthusian trap. I came a bit late to this party, Dr. Clark's book _A Farewell to Alms_ peaked at 17 on Amazon's sales months ago. My copy has not come yet so I read this paper off his academic web site. http://www.econ.ucdavis.edu/faculty/gclark/papers/Capitalism%20Genes.pdf Genetically Capitalist? The Malthusian Era, Institutions and the Formation of Modern Preferences. There is lots of other material here: http://www.econ.ucdavis.edu/faculty/gclark/research.html but this paper is just stunning because of how much light it shines on a long list of mysteries. Such as: Why did the modern world grow out of a small part of Europe and why did it take so long? Why are the Chinese doing so well compared to say Africa? The upshot of his research was that in the Mathusian era in England people with the personality characteristics to become well off economically had at least twice as many surviving children as those in the lower economic classes--who were not replacing themselves. This, of course, led to downward social mobility, where the numerous sons and daughters of the rich tended to be less well off (on average) than their parents. But over 20 generations (1200-1800) it did spread the genes for the personality characteristics for accumulating wealth through the entire population. In the institutional and technological context of these societies, a new set of human attributes mattered for the only currency that mattered in the Malthusian era, which was reproductive success. In this world literacy and numeracy, which were irrelevant before, were both helpful for economic success in agrarian pre-industrial economies. Thus since economic success was linked to reproductive success, facility with numbers and wordswas pulled along in its wake. Since patience and hard work found a new reward in a society with large amounts of capital, patience and hard work were also favored. Fascinating work, memes that slot right in to the rest of my understanding of the world and the people in it. I very strongly recommend reading this paper at least. Keith Henson ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: A Family Tragedy
With deepest sympathies. I'm sorry to hear that. Blessings, Pat http://idiotgrrl.livejournal.com/ Now is the winter of our discontent From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: brin-l@mccmedia.com Subject: Re: A Family Tragedy Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 16:54:53 -0600 - Original Message - From: Nick Arnett [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion brin-l@mccmedia.com Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2007 7:18 PM Subject: Re: A Family Tragedy On Dec 19, 2007 7:52 AM, Nick Arnett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Let me offer a sentence that has helped many people get through the holidays when in grief: Not this year. It means that it's okay to tell others -- and yourself -- that you're choosing not to skip something this year. If it will take more energy than it gives you, don't do it. Choosing not to skip... sheesh. I meant choosing to skip, which probably was apparent. Robert, thanks for telling us more. Tears in my eyes. Nothing makes these things better, we just learn to live with them. I think it is good to choose to believe in things that seem impossible. The obit appeared in the paper today, but they got his date of death wrong placing it a day later for some reason. http://www.legacy.com/houstonchronicle/DeathNotices.asp?Page=LifestoryPersonId=99882966 http://tinyurl.com/2pq73e xponent Honoring Memory Maru rob ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Pratchett has Alzheimer's
Oh, no! http://idiotgrrl.livejournal.com/ Now is the winter of our discontent To: brin-l@mccmedia.com Subject: Pratchett has Alzheimer's From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 10:46:10 -0500 http://www.paulkidby.com/news/index.html I'll warrant we've got a fan or two on board here, so I thought I'd share the sad news. Alzheimer's has to be one of the truly awful scourges of our ability to live longer. Yet, as a fan of the man's work, I can't help but want to make jokes, even though I know it's not really funny. He just doesn't strike me as someone who'd want his fans to get maudlin about it. jim ___ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web! ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Correlation v. causality
Does Satan have retractable claws at the end of his paws? http://idiotgrrl.livejournal.com/ Now is the winter of our discontent Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 20:24:41 -0600 To: brin-l@mccmedia.com From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Correlation v. causality At 07:06 PM Thursday 12/6/2007, Julia Thompson wrote: On Fri, 7 Dec 2007, Alberto Vieira Ferreira Monteiro wrote: The datum can't be refutted: YEC would consider non-YEC as evil, stupid or satan's paws. I don't know how to connect this to the argument, namely, the measure of how many people are stupid. Do you mean satan's *pawns*, or have I just been exposed to something new? Julia I thought it was a reference to satan's prawns: seafood prepared with an extra-hot spicy coating . . . Hot As You-Know-What Maru -- Ronn! :) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: dogmatism v. pragmatism
Lakoff makes more sense if you add the concept of freely chosen obligations versus enforced obligations - I forget the precise terminology. The latter means that you do what you do because you must - it's your duty as whatever your role is. Dharma, in the Hindu usage. The former is, you freely choose your obligations and choose to remain faithful to them. People who believe in the chosen obligations ask How can you ever trust someone forced into staying with you/taking care of Mom/whatever? Being enslaved, won't the resent it and do as little as possible or get petty revenge? People who believe in forced obligations can't imagine being able to ever trust any of the chosen-obligation people. After all, didn't they get into their marriage, role, or whatever, on a *whim*? And won't they walk out of it just as freely? The mapping onto Lakoff is fairly obvious. And let me add that the forced-obligation people tend to be hard-right and the chosen-obligation people to be moderate-to-hard left. The reason is that if the government takes over the obligations, doesn't that get people off the hook and allow them to skip out on doing their bounden duty? There was a long discussion of this on Ozarque's Journal (lj) some time ago. http://idiotgrrl.livejournal.com/ Now is the winter of our discontent From: Nick Arnett [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion brin-l@mccmedia.com To: Killer Bs Discussion brin-l@mccmedia.com Subject: Re: dogmatism v. pragmatism Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 11:55:40 -0800 On Dec 5, 2007 11:45 AM, jon louis mann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: jerry pournelle, is also catholic, and used to be a much more progressive, but now is way over to the opposite end of the political spectrum. I haven't seen Jerry in a long time, but I never would have guessed that he was ever progressive. The more times I ran into him, the less I could stand reading anything he wrote... Aside from his grandiosity and misbehavior (don't ask, I won't gossip) I'd hear it all in his voice, which could ruin anything. i can understand why many wealthy individuals are drawn to the religious right, but i can not understand why so many lower class christians support bush when they are victims of his economic policies... George Lakoff has an explanation and although I'm not sure it is politically useful, it makes a lot of sense to me. Moral Politics is his book that explains it in depth. The short version is that the right, especially the fundamentalist right-wingers, appeal to a stern father concept that all of us have and use to one extent or another. The alternative is to invoke our concept of nurturing parents, Lakoff argues. But it's sort of like Freud; the model works but doesn't seem to be practical. i have a friend who is a cal tech graduate and is still orthodox. that i don't understand, but we are still friends. if you are raised in a faith, you either reject it completely, as i did, or find some way to rationalize your faith... perhaps there is a middle ground? In my faith, being lukewarm is cause for criticism... ;-) Nick -- Nick Arnett [EMAIL PROTECTED] Messages: 408-904-7198 ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Brin: Fire info
Not with the Santa Ana blowing so fiercely, you don't. Note: our huge fire in Los Alamos was caused by a controlled burn (a tactic the firefighters are very well aware of, upsides and downsides both) that got out of control due to a strong shifting wind. http://idiotgrrl.livejournal.com/ You never know who is swimming naked until the tide goes out. Warren Buffett From: Alberto Monteiro [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion brin-l@mccmedia.com To: Killer Bs Discussion brin-l@mccmedia.com Subject: Re: Brin: Fire info Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 14:39:26 -0200 Charlie Bell wrote: Maybe once this dies down and people have a chance to take stock, people in bushfire zones in the US will take a look at the strategies used Down Under. With it being the start of the fire season here, the Make a Plan - Leave Early or Stay And Fight stuff is all over the TV and the volunteer fire crews in every country town are preparing intensively. Years ago, I watched a Botsuana movie The Gods Must Be Crazy, where the bushman hero used an interesting technique to fight an out-of-control fire: he used fire to start a controlled fire, creating a barrier of ashes, so that the uncontrolled fire would not get close to where he was. I don't know if this is possible in California, but maybe that would be the best solution to save what can be saved. Alberto Monteiro PS: and now in Rio we have a (minor) flood... ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Calling Vernor Vinge! Sandia National Labs -
Sandia National Labs announced it is cutting off all access to it's collection of hard-copy content to save money and re-engineer library services for the electronic age. Eventually (note the disjuncture!) the people will have access to a fully electronic library. Jean, I'll send you the entire story clipped from the newspaper. The Albuquerque Journal. http://idiotgrrl.livejournal.com/ You never know who is swimming naked until the tide goes out. Warren Buffett ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
The Sandia Labs library
Sandia couldn't keep the hard-copy library open until they had the electronic one in place? Usually when you replace one thing with another, you allow for some interim coverage. I'm taking your old coat; eventually you'll get a new one. Meanwhile, you can freeze. Gaah. Patricia Mathews http://idiotgrrl.livejournal.com/ You never know who is swimming naked until the tide goes out. Warren Buffett ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Brin: Fires in California
Oh, you're out there! Ouch... After the Cerro Grande fire up in Los Alamos some years ago, I bought soft-sided cat carriers for my fellows and made them as attractive as possible in hopes they'd sleep in them. I keep them on waist-high bookcases one near each dor. That way in case we have to evacuate, packing them up will be a lot easier. Best of luck and may you and yours escape the fire. Pat http://idiotgrrl.livejournal.com/ You never know who is swimming naked until the tide goes out. Warren Buffett From: David Brin [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion brin-l@mccmedia.com To: Killer Bs Discussion brin-l@mccmedia.com Subject: Re: Brin: Fires in California Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 13:37:19 -0700 (PDT) Thanks, it is almost exactly the anniversary of the 2003 Cedar Fire. We've taken the younger two plus pets to grandma. Watching closely. Avoiding falling ash. Horrible air quality. But wind directions seem to favor us. A very bad santa ana is being opposed by an offshore push right over us. What drama! Forced to prepare, though. Small but real chance of total evacuation. Jim Burns paintings Hugos and kid mementos and photos... what a lot of stuff you notice when you have to... --- Alberto Vieira Ferreira Monteiro [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I heard about the fires. I hope nobody here is in any danger. Alberto Monteiro ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Turkey, Genocide Congress.
From: Ray Ludenia [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion brin-l@mccmedia.com To: Killer Bs Discussion brin-l@mccmedia.com Subject: Re: Turkey, Genocide Congress. Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 22:43:33 +1000 On 16/10/2007, at 5:01 AM, Gary Nunn wrote: Even if it WAS genocide, the question still remains: what good comes from making that declaration 90 years after the fact? How does that improve the world today? Facile answer: Those Who Forget History Are Doomed to Repeat It. Regards, Ray. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l You mean it didn't get repeated only two generations later? People who remember history may also be given some thoroughly nasty ideas from it. Pat, muttering NOBODY expects Homeland Security. http://idiotgrrl.livejournal.com/ You never know who is swimming naked until the tide goes out. Warren Buffett ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Hybrid Cars: An unexpected complaint
Adding a nice little purr to the hybrid motors might prove to catch the public's fancy, so maybe we're not just accomodating 0.5% of the population. http://idiotgrrl.livejournal.com/ __ God does not play dice with the Universe -Albert Einstein Albert, quit telling God what to do with His dice. -Niels Bohr From: Ronn! Blankenship [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion brin-l@mccmedia.com To: Killer Bs Discussion brin-l@mccmedia.com Subject: Re: Hybrid Cars: An unexpected complaint Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2007 19:53:53 -0500 At 07:23 AM Wednesday 10/3/2007, Jim Sharkey wrote: Apparently, they're too quiet: http://money.excite.com/jsp/nw/nwdt_rt_top.jsp?news_id=ap-d8s1n79o0; The National Federation for the Blind is complaining that when the cars are running on solely electricity, blind people cannot hear them and it could be dangerous as they cross the street. I'm not sure what they want to do about this. Equip them with a version of those noisemakers that you attach to your bumper that supposedly warn deer I just can't see manufacturers going back to the drawing board to make their cars louder to satisfy less than 0.5% of the population. Jim NBF has a big sign on their building you can see from I-95. Who's it for? Maru Is it in Braille? -- Ronn! :) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Netiquette
While we're on other languages, Eres tarde, Frodo. Los Estados Unidos tiene el Uno Anillo y está usándolo http://idiotgrrl.livejournal.com/ __ God does not play dice with the Universe -Albert Einstein Albert, quit telling God what to do with His dice. -Niels Bohr From: Nick Arnett [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion brin-l@mccmedia.com To: Killer Bs Discussion brin-l@mccmedia.com Subject: Re: Netiquette Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 15:48:33 -0700 On 9/20/07, Richard Baker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Nick said: And, ipso facto, the sina qua non for this group. Semper fidelus, As we're all being so exact, that should be sine I knew that. and fidelis. And that. My fingers don't listen to me any more. It's astonishing what they type sometimes. Nick -- Nick Arnett [EMAIL PROTECTED] Messages: 408-904-7198 ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Car free London?
I want to add my two cents about car-free anything, since the University of New Mexico is working very hard to become a car-free campus - at the age of 68 and in hot weather, walking any distance is exhausting. There have been days I've tried to do so for my health and have come home and been wiped out all afternoon. I tried to re-acquire a bicycle and ride it and found I was no longer secure in my balance. Grocery shopping cannot be done without some way to haul the stuff home. Likewise any other acquisition of supplies. You bet I'm going to take the car when I need to. Yes, people unable to walk as a primary means of transportation can still drive. Yes, there are people whose health problems don't reach the level of needing a gimp sticker on their car but who still can't make the next three blocks without finding a coffee shop to rest and get something to drink. I have no idea what it;s like in London or Chicago. I know that San Francisco is a great town for public transportation and is totally unaffordable to live in, necessitating a long commute for many people. I know that my own city of Albuquerque is very, very hard on the impoverished disabled as far as transportation goes despite the much-touted Albuquerque Ride vans. Details at great length can probably be had from the Weekly Alibi, daily Journal, or daily Trib archives. Just my $0.02 plus a day's use of my bus pass --- Pat from Albuquerque http://idiotgrrl.livejournal.com/ __ God does not play dice with the Universe -Albert Einstein Albert, quit telling God what to do with His dice. -Niels Bohr ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Political affiliation could be all in the brain
Wait a minute - I'm a liberal and I took an executive function test a lot like that only more complex and got a lousy 108 on it. And how is being more responsive to a new signal a brain DEFECT? Pat, needs to study to become an idiot savant. http://idiotgrrl.livejournal.com/ __ Car title loans get you back on your feet again. From: William T Goodall [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion brin-l@mccmedia.com To: Brin-L brin-l@mccmedia.com Subject: Political affiliation could be all in the brain Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2007 00:54:40 +0100 My hunch that political faith is due to a brain defect similar to that which causes religious faith seems to have got evidence backing it. http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn12614feedId=online- news_rss20 A brain scan might one day predict your voting patterns. That is the implication of a study that found different brain activity among liberals and conservatives asked to carry out a simple button-pushing test. The study implies that our political diversity may be the result of neurological differences. Researchers have long known that conservatives and liberals score differently in psychological profiling tests. Now they are beginning to gather evidence about why this might be. David Amodio of New York University, US, and his colleagues recruited 43 subjects for their test. They asked the participants to rate their political persuasion on a scale of -5 to 5, with the lowest number representing the most liberal extreme and the highest number representing the most conservative score. The participants then had to sit before a computer screen and press one of two buttons depending on whether they saw an M or a W. They had half a second to make each response, so there was a great deal of pressure to react quickly. Surprising stimulus Out of the 500 trials that each subject completed, he or she was presented with the same letter 80% of the time. This meant that the participants felt compelled to press the same button repeatedly. You keep seeing the same stimulus over and over, so when the opposite stimulus comes on it's always a surprise, says Amodio. When the less common letter did appear on the screen, the people who identified themselves as more conservative (rating themselves somewhere between 1 and 5 on the initial questionnaire) pressed the usual button 47% of the time instead of switching to the correct button. By comparison, the liberals who placed themselves between -5 and -1 on the questionnaire responded more readily to the new signal and achieved the slightly lower error rate of 37%. Brain recordings taken using electroencephalogram (EEG) technology showed that liberals had twice as much activity in a deep region called the anterior cingulate cortex. This area of the brain is thought to act as a mental brake by helping the mind recognize no- go situations where it must refrain from the usual course of action. Voting prediction The new findings are interesting and provocative because they could perhaps help enable researchers to predict a person's voting behaviour based on brain scans, says Jordan Grafman, chief of the cognitive neuroscience section at National Institute of Neurological Disorders and Stroke in Bethesda, Maryland, US. Amodio explains that the fact that liberals achieved higher accuracy on the button-pressing task does not make them better than conservatives. There might be other tasks or situations where a less sensitive or more persistent response might be more adaptive, such as when new stimuli are distracting, he says. He also speculates that differences in brain responses might contribute to differences in political views or vice versa. Conservatives tend to say that liberals spend too much time thinking and not enough time acting, comments Matt Newman at Arizona State University in Phoenix, Arizona, US. But it would be a leap if researchers claim that there is an underlying biological difference that leads you to a particular political orientation. He adds, however, that the new finding that conservatives stick with habit is still interesting given that previous studies have found they are more likely to resist change than their liberal counterparts (Psychological Bulletin, DOI: 10.1037/0033-2909.129.3.339). Journal reference: Nature Neuroscience (DOI: 10.1038/nn1979) -- William T Goodall Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/ I think a case can be made that faith is one of the world's great evils, comparable to the smallpox virus but harder to eradicate. - Richard Dawkins ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Monster, dog or chupacabra?
The shape looks canine to me. Pat http://idiotgrrl.livejournal.com/ __ Car title loans get you back on your feet again. From: Deborah Harrell [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion brin-l@mccmedia.com To: Killer Bs Discussion brin-l@mccmedia.com Subject: Re: Monster, dog or chupacabra? Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2007 14:17:13 -0700 (PDT) Gary Nunn [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: CUERO, Texas - Phylis Canion lived in Africa for four years. She's been a hunter all her life and has the mounted heads of a zebra and other exotic animals in her house to prove it. [Aside: what makes folks think that's cool?] But the roadkill she found last month outside her ranch was a new one even for her, worth putting in a freezer hidden from curious onlookers: Canion believes she may have the head of the mythical, bloodsucking chupacabra. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20539085/wid/11915829?GT1=10357 That is one *ugly* mug - I wouldn't want to run into a pack of those while out riding or hiking! But Mulder might have been fascinated... Debbi Not Just Any Egg-sucking Dawg Maru Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with Yahoo! FareChase. http://farechase.yahoo.com/ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: After Midnight
Your kitty died? I'm sorry to hear that. http://idiotgrrl.livejournal.com/ __ The totem animals of Wall Street are the bull, the bear, the hog, and the ostrich. From: Ronn! Blankenship [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion brin-l@mccmedia.com To: Killer Bs Discussion brin-l@mccmedia.com Subject: After Midnight Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2007 13:08:02 -0500 That era started about 11:15 last night. I came in to eat some soup for lunch, then I have to return to trying to dig a hole in the drought-hardened soil in the back yard, which I started doing as soon as it became light enough to work this morning. Tears Maru --Ronn! :) Tom =^.^= , Spot (199296), Andy (198999), D.J. (1994±1?2003), and Midnight (19992007) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Brineller quoted in New York Times
She has a hedge fund job? Better get her resumes out - they are crashing like cheap pinatas at a birthday party. http://idiotgrrl.livejournal.com/ __ The totem animals of Wall Street are the bull, the bear, the hog, and the ostrich. From: John Garcia [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion brin-l@mccmedia.com To: Killer Bs Discussion brin-l@mccmedia.com Subject: Brineller quoted in New York Times Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2007 21:39:30 -0400 Gautam Mukunda is quoted in the July 31 NY Times piece on Chelsea Clinton. He comments about Chelsea's stint at McKinsey: Because clients often prefer McKinsey to remain invisible, the work was quiet, allowing Ms. Clinton and her peers to pretend that she was just another freshly hatched graduate. When she was at parties with us, she was one of the group, said Gautam Mukunda, whose office was a few doors down from hers. From what I know of her father, he has never been in any room in which he was not the center of attention, starting from before he became president. Chelsea has a deeply admirable ability to yield focus. The entire article is at http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/31/us/politics/31chelsea.html. amf john ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Religion is Valuable: Why it Must Be Encouraged
I am deleting, unread, all posts with this title because nobody is saying anything new. Everybody has their minds made up and all the force of their deepest values behind it. http://idiotgrrl.livejournal.com/ __ The community stagnates without the impulse of the individual.The impulse dies away without the sympathy of the community.--William James From: William T Goodall [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion brin-l@mccmedia.com To: Killer Bs Discussion brin-l@mccmedia.com Subject: Re: Religion is Valuable: Why it Must Be Encouraged Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2007 14:32:57 +0100 On 29 Jul 2007, at 13:55, Richard Baker wrote: William said: It has a supernatural God that makes the world, a supernatural Jesus, it has Jesus coming back from death, it has heaven and it has resurrection and blah blah blah. If you don't believe all of this tosh you are not a Christian. I think it's possible to disbelieve some aspects of it while believing other things of a similar character and still be a Christian. For example, the Nicene Creed was a formal rejection of Arianism(*) - that's what the eternally begotten of the Father... begotten, not made part is about - but I don't think anyone could sensibly argue that Arians aren't Christians, and the First Council of Nicaea certainly didn't stamp out what was afterwards the Arian heresy. Which cults are or are not really Christian is one of those religious questions... The Latter Day Saints and Jehovah's Witnesses represent themselves as Christian but reject the Nicene Creed. Some Protestant churches claim Catholics aren't really Christians and the Pope has recently reaffirmed that the Catholic church is the One True Christian church. Zealots Maru -- William T Goodall Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/ 'The true sausage buff will sooner or later want his own meat grinder.' -- Jack Schmidling ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
