Re: Political Compass
At 01:50 PM 5/21/2003 -0700 Chad Cooper wrote: http://www.digitalronin.f2s.com/politicalcompass/index.html Very Cool! Tells it like it is... My score: Economic Left/Right: 5.25 Authoritarian/Libertarian: -3.13 My scores were +3.75 and +0.15. It would be interesting to see someone graph all of the reporter Brin-L'er results on a single graph. Its interesting that I came out as much more of a moderate many Brin-L'ers. :) JDG ___ John D. Giorgis - [EMAIL PROTECTED] The liberty we prize is not America's gift to the world, it is God's gift to humanity. - George W. Bush 1/29/03 ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Political Compass
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Deborah Harrell wrote: Couple of years ago at a party, some guy actually asked me my sign...I managed not to laugh, but only just, and womanfully refrained from snapping Off Limits! ;-) I thought that was old enough that it was nostalgically quaint now. Seriously, did you reply negative? :) grin If he'd said it as a joke it *would* have been funny, and I'd have laughed; he was *serious* and while I told him, I also managed to see a friend 'I had to ask about her sick family member (her dog, actually!)' -- and absented myself. Debbi whose friend's dog recovered then, but is quite ill again and will need to be euthanized soon :( __ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Political Compass
--- Doug Pensinger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Deborah Harrell wrote: snip I'm still a Cancer, according to the correct[ed] astronomy dates, but under the 'traditional' system it's Cancer-cusp-Leo, which 'fits' my personality better than straight Cancer. Although perhaps a better fit would be Cancer-cusp-Lupus, if such a thing existed... evil grin So are birthday greetings in order here shortly? wry I keep trying to ignore it this year, but various friends won't let it go, so I've given in gracefully (mostly)...and over the next week we'll see Pirates Seabiscuit, drink chai and ride out... :} Whaddaya Mean My Life's Half Over? Maru __ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Political Compass
On Fri, Jul 18, 2003 at 10:54:50AM -0700, Deborah Harrell wrote: --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Deborah Harrell wrote: Couple of years ago at a party, some guy actually asked me my sign...I managed not to laugh, but only just, and womanfully refrained from snapping Off Limits! ;-) I thought that was old enough that it was nostalgically quaint now. Seriously, did you reply negative? :) grin If he'd said it as a joke it *would* have been funny, and I'd have laughed; he was *serious* and while I told him, I also managed to see a friend 'I had to ask about her sick family member (her dog, actually!)' -- and absented myself. So, numinous experiences are worthwhile and high quality knowledge, but astrology is poor quality knowledge? Have I understood you? -- Erik Reuter [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.erikreuter.net/ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Political Compass
--- Erik Reuter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Deborah Harrell wrote: --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Deborah Harrell wrote: Couple of years ago at a party, some guy actually asked me my sign...I managed not to laugh, but only just, and womanfully refrained from snapping Off Limits! ;-) I thought that was old enough that it was nostalgically quaint now. Seriously, did you reply negative? :) grin If he'd said it as a joke it *would* have been funny, and I'd have laughed; he was *serious* and while I told him, I also managed to see a friend 'I had to ask about her sick family member (her dog, actually!)' -- and absented myself. So, numinous experiences are worthwhile and high quality knowledge, but astrology is poor quality knowledge? Have I understood you? No. *Nowhere* have I said numinous experiences are high quality knowledge. I have in fact written over and over that, besides being unprovable, these are *my* experiences and *my* interpretations, and were important to *me* -- except where I was _obviously_ joking (multiple grins and smiley-faces etc.). Nice try, though! ;) Topsy-Turvey Maru __ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Political Compass
On Fri, Jul 18, 2003 at 07:17:16PM -0700, Deborah Harrell wrote: *Nowhere* have I said numinous experiences are high quality knowledge. I have in fact written over and over that, besides being unprovable, these are *my* experiences and *my* interpretations, and were important to *me* -- except where I was _obviously_ joking (multiple grins and smiley-faces etc.). Nice try, though! ;) Then I'll try again. You discuss your numinous experiences here on Brin-l, at least in generalities, and seem to consider it a worthwhile topic of conversation. But astrology is a waste of time? -- Erik Reuter [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.erikreuter.net/ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Political Compass
On Tue, 15 Jul 2003 12:02:11 -0700 (PDT), Deborah Harrell wrote: Couple of years ago at a party, some guy actually asked me my sign...I managed not to laugh, but only just, and womanfully refrained from snapping Off Limits! ;-) I thought that was old enough that it was nostalgically quaint now. Seriously, did you reply negative? :) Dean ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Political Compass
Deborah Harrell wrote: --- Ritu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ronn!Blankenship wrote: Here are a couple of links to pages giving an explanation (with pictures, which I can't post on this list): http://www.firstlightastro.com/skiesabove/archive/010915.shtml http://cse.ssl.berkeley.edu/lessons/indiv/beth/beth_precess.html Thank you. :) They were more than sufficient. Ritu, who now has something new to say when people offer to read her horoscope I'm still a Cancer, according to the correct astronomy dates, but under the 'traditional' system it's Cancer-cusp-Leo, which 'fits' my personality better than straight Cancer. Although perhaps a better fit would be Cancer-cusp-Lupus, if such a thing existed... evil grin So are birthday greetings in order here shortly? Doug ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Political Compass
Deborah Harrell wrote: Couple of years ago at a party, some guy actually asked me my sign...I managed not to laugh, but only just, and womanfully refrained from snapping Off Limits! ;-) Astrology is so abhorrent to me, that the first time that I thought of Natalia's sign was when she was about 1.5 years old. Someone asked her sign, and I had to think about it: she was born on the same date as me, so I knew her sign. I once challenged a professional astrologer to compute my sign based on my personality: I would answer truthfully any questionaire [that did not require giving bank account passwords, of course] and he had to reconstruct my birthdate based on it. He bailed out evil grin WFC Maru Alberto Monteiro ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Mules, Donkeys and Horses (was Re: Political Compass)
http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/science/AP-Cloned- Mule.html?ex=1369627200en=1b24b49879d0b0fdei=5007partner=USERLAND Why is a mule like a banana? -- William T Goodall Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/ Those who study history are doomed to repeat it. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Mules, Donkeys and Horses (was Re: Political Compass)
At 01:17 AM 5/30/03 +0100, William T Goodall wrote: http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/science/AP-Cloned- Mule.html?ex=1369627200en=1b24b49879d0b0fdei=5007partner=USERLAND I couldn't get that link to work, but this one seems to: http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/science/AP-Cloned-Mule.html and some other reports: http://www.nytimes.com/2003/05/29/science/29WIRE-MULE.html http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/news/news-science-mule.html Why is a mule like a banana? You can break something falling down off either one. -- Ronn! :) God bless America, Land that I love! Stand beside her, and guide her Thru the night with a light from above. From the mountains, to the prairies, To the oceans, white with foamÂ… God bless America! My home, sweet home. -- Irving Berlin (1888-1989) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Mules, Donkeys and Horses (was Re: Political Compass)
On Friday, May 30, 2003, at 01:53 am, Ronn!Blankenship wrote: At 01:17 AM 5/30/03 +0100, William T Goodall wrote: Why is a mule like a banana? You can break something falling down off either one. Actually it was the very dull answer that you have to clone them. (bananas are all clones (in the biological sense) because they are grown from cuttings. No seeds...) -- William T Goodall Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/ One of the main causes of the fall of the Roman Empire was that, lacking zero, they had no way to indicate successful termination of their C programs. -- Robert Firth ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Mules, Donkeys and Horses (was Re: Political Compass)
Ronn!Blankenship wrote: At 02:03 AM 5/30/03 +0100, William T Goodall wrote: (bananas are all clones (in the biological sense) because they are grown from cuttings. No seeds...) I suspect that a mule might _really_ hurt you if you tried to take some cuttings from him/her/it . . . Yeah, if you're stupid enough to try it without anesthesia Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Political Compass
In a message dated 5/28/2003 10:52:29 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: That is because they are really stories about us not our ancestors. No, they are the history of our decendents. They just used time reversal to send the stories back to us. The issues raised in sf are our issues not theirs. Would a 19th century reader understand or even be interested in the issues that facinate us (e.g the effect of internet on our lives). This is our issue not an issue for our ancestors who will have new things to worry about). The stories we tell are our stories displaced into another place and time ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Mules, Donkeys and Horses (was Re: Political Compass)
--- Ronn!Blankenship [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip ...and some other reports: http://www.nytimes.com/2003/05/29/science/29WIRE-MULE.html http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/news/news-science-mule.html The pic of the mule foal is cute. But I see that they didn't clone the actual racing mule of interest, rather they re-mated its sire and dam, then aborted the fetus and used those cells to clone. And even using these younger, less-likely-to-have-accumulated-genetic-damage cells, it took ~300 tries to get any live foals. Given the shorter (and often less-healthy) lives of most animals cloned from adult cells so far, I think this is a stupid commercial venture (although as basic research, considering the differences they cited WRT horses and cancer, it is interesting and potentially useful). Cloning vast arrays of chickens, pigs and cows for the table, besides seeming quite labor-intensive, reminds me of a short story I read decades ago, in which a demented man stranded on a space station clones billions of human cells (?zygotes), blesses them, then - having saved the souls - he destroys them, 'keeping them forever innocent and pure.' Or something like that. As much as I love my cats and horses, I would not attempt to clone them, even if the process were perfect. The individual with whom I have/had a relationship, when dead, is *gone.* I may mourn them for years, but to attempt to re-create them seems to me both overweeningly arrogant and disrespectful. As for the endangered taki (Mongolian wild horse), it has been reintroduced to its native land, and the herds, watched by dedicated horsemen-and-women, slowly grow. Without cloning. http://www.imh.org/imh/bw/prz.html#wild Debbi One-of-A-Kind Maru __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). http://calendar.yahoo.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Political Compass
In a message dated 5/25/2003 7:30:16 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I don't think so. I've watched Star Trek many times, as well as a bunch of other future documentaries. They show that races exist in the same way in the future as they do now. :-) That is because they are really stories about us not our ancestors. Understand that what we think of as dramatic differences are less than skin deep. Slight variations in some gene frequencies. Let me give you an example. Jews have been somewhat isolated as a breeding population for about 2 milenia. For the most part jews have bread with jews because a) there has been a very strong prohibition against marrying outside of the religion. Christians on the other hand faced dire consequences if they became involved with jews. So the amount of interbreeding was small and yet it was large enough so that there are no racial genetic differences between jews and other europeans (a little shtupping apparently goes a long way). Sure there are genetic diseases that are more common amoung jews but is simply an effect of a recent mutation in a family that just happened to be jewish. Given the amount of inter-racial mating that is going on races are doomed. We are really one population after all. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Political Compass
In a message dated 5/25/2003 10:29:37 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Correction: Mules are the sterile offspring of horses and donkeys. (ass == donkey). Bob Z: Yeah you are right I always confuse donkeys asses and mules. Specifically, breeding a male donkey and a female horse results in a mule, while the opposite apparently results in a more horse-like hinny. At least according to this site: http://www.imh.org/imh/bw/mule.html To me, that last point is pretty interesting. I wonder what would cause those differences between a mule and a hinny, when I would expect that they would have pretty much equivalent DNA? Could the pregnancy environment account for the difference? Bob Z; It is, if I remember correctly, a consequence of imprinting. In mammals the parental source of genes can have a consequences. Typically one of the two allelles from each parents is inactive in the child. So there is a difference depending on which parent is a donkey and which is horse ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Political Compass
I'm curious: Do those specific genetic differences cover 100% of the population of a given race and exclude other races? Could you do a blind DNA test on a person and with 100% certainty decide what race that person is? What if that person was multiracial? No you cannot determine race based on a specific genetic profile. To the extent that race is real it is a population phenomena. The frequency of different genes in a group of individuals. I don't think he was denying there were differences. His point was that there are so many different human traits (IOW, genetic differences) that vary within races and span across to other races, it's not helpful to package an arbitrary set of these characteristics (which just happen to correlate some/most of the time) as a race in the common sense (with all the social/economic/political division that it entails). In other words, he wasn't denying genetics, just rejecting the term race in its common sense, which has greater connotations and divisions than just meaning the small genetic differences. The point is that in the abscence of politics, race would be an uncontroversial scientific notion with some value. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Mules, Donkeys and Horses (was Re: Political Compass)
At 09:26 PM 5/28/03 -0400, Han Tacoma wrote: Bryon Daly (Sun, 25 May 2003 23:29:37 -0400) wrote: From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Donkeys are the sterile offspring of horses and asses. They are hybrids. Correction: Mules are the sterile offspring of horses and donkeys. (ass == donkey). Specifically, breeding a male donkey and a female horse results in a mule, while the opposite apparently results in a more horse-like hinny. At least according to this site: http://www.imh.org/imh/bw/mule.html [...snip...] When I was about 12/13 years old, I used to spend my summer vacations at the coffee plantation that my father managed in the Peruvian jungle. We only used mules (other than the Land Rover and the Auto Union amphibian) to get around the plantation (about 3,000,000 acres). I still remember the explanation my father gave me Horses will walk at night but they don't watch where they're going; donkeys are very safe in navigating jungle terrain but will refuse to walk at night, whereas the mule will walk at night and _feel_ it's steps before committing itself -- very smart animal. Yes, but they are quite literally a pain in the butt to ride bareback. -- Ronn! :) God bless America, Land that I love! Stand beside her, and guide her Thru the night with a light from above. From the mountains, to the prairies, To the oceans, white with foamÂ… God bless America! My home, sweet home. -- Irving Berlin (1888-1989) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Political Compass
- Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2003 7:41 PM Subject: Re: Political Compass In a message dated 5/25/2003 7:30:16 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I don't think so. I've watched Star Trek many times, as well as a bunch of other future documentaries. They show that races exist in the same way in the future as they do now. :-) That is because they are really stories about us not our ancestors. No, they are the history of our decendents. They just used time reversal to send the stories back to us. :-) Dan M. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Political Compass
--- Bryon Daly [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Donkeys are the sterile offspring of horses and asses. They are hybrids. Correction: Mules are the sterile offspring of horses and donkeys. (ass == donkey). Specifically, breeding a male donkey and a female horse results in a mule, while the opposite apparently results in a more horse-like hinny. At least according to this site: http://www.imh.org/imh/bw/mule.html To me, that last point is pretty interesting. I wonder what would cause those differences between a mule and a hinny, when I would expect that they would have pretty much equivalent DNA? Could the pregnancy environment account for the difference? While I'm guessing here, I think the cellular engines might account for some differences, as mitochondria essentially all come from the mother (AFAIK the contribution of mitochondria from sperm are so rare as to be basically nil). Another difference might be from the behavior of the mother - foals clearly are influenced by the temperament of their dam (or surrogate dam, in the case of orphaned foals), and horses do tend to interact differently than donkeys. The site you posted notes unusual color patterns in spotted mules -- one of the cutest little molly mules I ever saw had a nearly calico coat (brown, white, roan), and was super-friendly to boot. Fiddling With Tradition Maru ;) __ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
