Re: [Caml-list] Re: Is OCaml fast?
Maybe you should read Tainted Truth: The Manipulation of Fact In America by Cynthia Crossen ? --Fabrice Isaac Gouy wrote, On 11/23/2010 03:20 AM: Dario Teixeira darioteixeira at yahoo.com writes: -snip- There's lies, damn lies, and shootout statistics. -snip- After all, facts are facts, and although we may quote one to another with a chuckle the words of the Wise Statesman, 'Lies--damned lies--and statistics,' still there are some easy figures the simplest must understand, and the astutest cannot wriggle out of. Leonard Henry Courtney, 1895 ___ Caml-list mailing list. Subscription management: http://yquem.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/caml-list Archives: http://caml.inria.fr Beginner's list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ocaml_beginners Bug reports: http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-bugs
Re: [Caml-list] [ANN] HTCaML / CaSS
Am Dienstag, den 23.11.2010, 15:01 +0100 schrieb Thomas Gazagnaire:
Have you seen that there is a preprocessor for PXP that allows you to
embed XML in ocaml?
http://projects.camlcity.org/projects/dl/pxp-1.2.1/doc/manual/html/ref/Intro_preprocessor.html
No, I didn't know about that. And there is also a syntax extension in
Eliom to do the same kind of things.
However, the two things I am really happy with HTCaML (and apparently it
is not possible to do the same thing in PXP nor Eliom) are :
i) you can easily mix auto-generated and hand-crafted code to create
XHTML fragments (no more tedious conversion functions); and
Don't know whether this is good or bad - having everything as XML means
you can also type-check the emitted XML (e.g. against the DTD). It's
only at runtime, but might still be helpful.
In PXP you would have to use a custom XML writer to merge in
hand-crafted HTML.
Btw, there are some subtle differences between real XHTML (with an
XML-ish content type) and HTML that looks like XML. For example, in
real XML SCRIPT or STYLE sections need to be quoted like other data
sections whereas HTML sees these as exceptions to the normal rules (e.g.
scriptif (a lt; b) { ... }/script in XML and scriptif (ab)
{...}/script in HTML). This is something that makes mixing in HTML
error-prone.
ii) you can write in the same part of your file (ie. in the same module)
the css and xhtml generator for a given type definition. That means that
you can do web-programming as you are used to : think about type
definitions first, and then write your code to reason by induction on
these defintions.
for example, you can have:
type foo = (* some random type *)
let html_of_foo : Html.t = (* some random code of type Html.t = (`a
Xml.frag as `a) Xmlm.frag list *)
let foo_css = (* some random, possibly nested, CSS *)
and :
type bar = { foo : foo; complex types } with html
let bar_css = :css .foo { $foo_css$; ... }
In the later case, you don't have to write manually the code for
html_of_bar as it will be done automatically by HTCaML, by looking at
the structure of bar; and it will pick your own definition of
html_of_foo. Also, nested declarations in bar_css will be automatically
unrolled to generate valid CSS fragments.
Interesting idea - data-centric HTML generation.
Gerd
I'm happily using this for dynamic web pages. The syntax is more
light-weight, though, e.g. you write
I don't really call this dynamic web pages, but yea, that's the same
idea :-)
--
Thomas
div [ ... ]
instead of div.../div, and there is a distinction in the syntax
between node and list of nodes, e.g.
div list
but
div [ node1 node2 ... ]
Gerd
Am Dienstag, den 23.11.2010, 14:05 +0100 schrieb Thomas Gazagnaire:
I am happy to announce the first official release of HTCaML[1] and
CaSS[2], two small libraries which make the writing of static web pages
easy in OCaml.
HTCaML enables the embedding of XHTML fragments in your OCaml program
(the EDSL translates directly to Xmlm) using quotations. It also allows
you to auto-generate boilerplate XHTML fragments from type definitions.
In the same way, CaSS enables the embedding of CSS fragments in your
OCaml program using quotations.
A quick example:
module Box = struct
type t = { title: string; date: string; contents: Html.t } with html
let css fg bg = :css
color: $fg$;
background-color: $bg$;
$Css.rounded$;
.title { color: $bg$; background-color: $fg$; }
end
let my_html boxes = Html.to_string :html
html
body
div class=boxes
$list:List.map Box.html_of_t boxes$
/div
/body
/html
let my_css = Css.to_string :css
.boxes { $Box.css :css blue :css white $ }
You can find a quick introduction to HTCaML (and maybe soon to CaSS) on
the mirage blog[3].
Cheers,
Thomas
[1] https://github.com/samoht/htcaml
[2] https://github.com/samoht/cass
[3] http://www.openmirage.org/blog/introduction-to-htcaml
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Phone:
RE: [Caml-list] Re: Is OCaml fast?
And almost all of the Haskell solutions (reverse-complement, spectral-norm, Mandelbrot, n-body, fannkuch-redux, k-nucleotide, regex-dna) abuse GHC's FFI in order to work around Haskell. The k-nucleotide benchmark in Haskell even uses malloc! Ketil Malde crafted a much better solution but noted: This is considered cheating, since it is the easy and natural way to do it. - http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/Shootout/Knucleotide Cheers, Jon. -Original Message- From: caml-list-boun...@yquem.inria.fr [mailto:caml-list- boun...@yquem.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Christophe TROESTLER Sent: 23 November 2010 10:38 To: igo...@yahoo.com Cc: caml-l...@inria.fr Subject: Re: [Caml-list] Re: Is OCaml fast? On Tue, 23 Nov 2010 02:03:48 +, Isaac Gouy wrote: C version : 12.11 secs OCaml version : 47.22 secs OCaml version with GC parameters tuned (interesting alternative section) : 12.67 secs And of course you know because that GC tuned OCaml program is shown on the benchmarks game website ;-) http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/u32/program.php?test=binarytrees; lang=ocamlid=1 Since you are here, please explain why C can use memory pools and vec tor instructions but tuning the GC of OCaml ― although it is part of the standard library ― is considered an alternative. Best, C. ___ Caml-list mailing list. Subscription management: http://yquem.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/caml-list Archives: http://caml.inria.fr Beginner's list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ocaml_beginners Bug reports: http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-bugs ___ Caml-list mailing list. Subscription management: http://yquem.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/caml-list Archives: http://caml.inria.fr Beginner's list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ocaml_beginners Bug reports: http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-bugs
RE: [Caml-list] Re: Optimizing garbage collection
I would increase the default minor heap size to something closer to today's common L2 cache sizes. But I see that Damien already did this for us: http://caml.inria.fr/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/ocaml/version/3.12/byterun/config.h ?rev=10787 http://caml.inria.fr/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/ocaml/version/3.12/byterun/config. h?rev=10787r1=10496r2=10787 r1=10496r2=10787 Cheers, Jon. From: Eray Ozkural [mailto:examach...@gmail.com] Sent: 22 November 2010 23:14 To: Jon Harrop Cc: Sylvain Le Gall; caml-l...@inria.fr Subject: Re: [Caml-list] Re: Optimizing garbage collection On Mon, Nov 22, 2010 at 11:14 PM, Jon Harrop jonathandeanhar...@googlemail.com wrote: What happens if you just increase the default size? Well we don't want to be a memory hog like Java do we? It's something that kind of depends on the app, what would you set it to? Cheers, -- Eray Ozkural, PhD candidate. Comp. Sci. Dept., Bilkent University, Ankara http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ai-philosophy http://myspace.com/arizanesil http://myspace.com/malfunct ___ Caml-list mailing list. Subscription management: http://yquem.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/caml-list Archives: http://caml.inria.fr Beginner's list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ocaml_beginners Bug reports: http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-bugs
RE: [Caml-list] Re: Is OCaml fast?
Note that the regex-dna solution for Haskell tweaks its GC parameters via the -H command-line parameter: http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/u64q/program.php?test=regexdnalang=ghcid =2 -Original Message- From: caml-list-boun...@yquem.inria.fr [mailto:caml-list- boun...@yquem.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Christophe TROESTLER Sent: 23 November 2010 10:38 To: igo...@yahoo.com Cc: caml-l...@inria.fr Subject: Re: [Caml-list] Re: Is OCaml fast? On Tue, 23 Nov 2010 02:03:48 +, Isaac Gouy wrote: C version : 12.11 secs OCaml version : 47.22 secs OCaml version with GC parameters tuned (interesting alternative section) : 12.67 secs And of course you know because that GC tuned OCaml program is shown on the benchmarks game website ;-) http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/u32/program.php?test=binarytrees; lang=ocamlid=1 Since you are here, please explain why C can use memory pools and vec tor instructions but tuning the GC of OCaml ― although it is part of the standard library ― is considered an alternative. Best, C. ___ Caml-list mailing list. Subscription management: http://yquem.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/caml-list Archives: http://caml.inria.fr Beginner's list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ocaml_beginners Bug reports: http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-bugs ___ Caml-list mailing list. Subscription management: http://yquem.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/caml-list Archives: http://caml.inria.fr Beginner's list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ocaml_beginners Bug reports: http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-bugs
Re: [Caml-list] OCaml + mingw-w64
On Monday, November 22, 2010 04:33:08 pm Damien Doligez wrote: On 2010-11-22, at 13:04, Christoph Cullmann wrote: In ocaml 3.12, in byterun/major_gc.h, there is: intnat caml_major_collection_slice (long howmuch) whereas in the .c file that is: intnat caml_major_collection_slice (intnat howmuch) As intnat is with mingw-w64 long long, this doesn't match. Should not the header use intnat, too? You're right. This will be fixed in 3.12.1. Thanks. We just started here to port ocaml to mingw-w64, question arises: Which files need adoption? I have seen that in asmrun the amd64.S needs patches and in asmcomp the emit and proc mls. Do I miss files? Greetings Christoph -- -- Christoph Cullmann - AbsInt Angewandte Informatik GmbH Email: cullm...@absint.com Science Park 1 Tel: +49-681-38360-22 66123 Saarbrücken Fax: +49-681-38360-20 GERMANYWWW: http://www.AbsInt.com Geschäftsführung: Dr.-Ing. Christian Ferdinand Eingetragen im Handelsregister des Amtsgerichts Saarbrücken, HRB 11234 ___ Caml-list mailing list. Subscription management: http://yquem.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/caml-list Archives: http://caml.inria.fr Beginner's list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ocaml_beginners Bug reports: http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-bugs
Re: [Caml-list] Optimizing garbage collection
Le 23/11/2010 14:40, Christophe Raffalli a écrit :
Hello,
May be running a minimisation algorithm to minimize (promoted_words per
minor collection / minor_heap_size) Could be good ?
This was stupid has it converges toward zero when we increase minor_heap_size.
However, the following piece of code worked well for PML benchmark (4'30
became 3'02) :
(remark that HALVING the minor_heap_size does occur too)
I really do not know if such strategy is reasonnable as a default ?
If the 0.10 and 0.005 in the code are any reasonnable ?
---8-
open Gc
let param = get ()
let old_promoted_words = ref 0.0
let old_minor_collections = ref 0
let minor_heap_size = ref param.minor_heap_size
let _ = create_alarm (fun () -
let s = quick_stat () in
let promoted_words = s.promoted_words in
let minor_collections = s.minor_collections in
let delta_promoted_words = promoted_words -. !old_promoted_words in
let delta_minor_collections = minor_collections - !old_minor_collections in
old_promoted_words := promoted_words;
old_minor_collections := minor_collections;
let ratio = delta_promoted_words /. (float) delta_minor_collections
/. (float) !minor_heap_size
in
if ratio 0.10 then begin
minor_heap_size := !minor_heap_size * 2;
(* Printf.fprintf stderr MHS DOUBLED - %d (ratio %f)\n !minor_heap_size
ratio;
flush stderr; *)
set { get () with minor_heap_size = !minor_heap_size }
end else if ratio 0.005 then begin
minor_heap_size := max 32768 (!minor_heap_size / 2);
(* Printf.fprintf stderr MHS HALFED - %d (ratio %f)\n !minor_heap_size
ratio;
flush stderr; *)
set { get () with minor_heap_size = !minor_heap_size }
end)
---8-
--
Christophe Raffalli
Universite de Savoie
Batiment Le Chablais, bureau 21
73376 Le Bourget-du-Lac Cedex
tel: (33) 4 79 75 81 03
fax: (33) 4 79 75 87 42
mail: christophe.raffa...@univ-savoie.fr
www: http://www.lama.univ-savoie.fr/~RAFFALLI
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[Caml-list] Re: Is OCaml fast?
Christophe TROESTLER Christophe.Troestler+ocaml at umh.ac.be writes: On Tue, 23 Nov 2010 02:03:48 +, Isaac Gouy wrote: C version : 12.11 secs OCaml version : 47.22 secs OCaml version with GC parameters tuned (interesting alternative section) : 12.67 secs And of course you know because that GC tuned OCaml program is shown on the benchmarks game website http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/u32/program.php?test=binarytrees; lang=ocamlid=1 Since you are here, please explain why C can use memory pools and vec tor instructions but tuning the GC of OCaml ― although it is part of the standard library ― is considered an “alternative”. You seem to be suggesting that tuning the GC is considered alternative only for OCaml programs. You seem to be suggesting that tuning the GC is considered alternative for every task. Neither is true. You seem to be suggesting some kind of equivalence between vector instructions and tuning the GC. You haven't said why they should be considered equivalent. Nor have you said why you think C should not be allowed to use memory pools. ___ Caml-list mailing list. Subscription management: http://yquem.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/caml-list Archives: http://caml.inria.fr Beginner's list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ocaml_beginners Bug reports: http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-bugs
[Caml-list] Re: Is OCaml fast?
Is that book the source for the quotation 'Lies--damned lies--and statistics'? Fabrice Le Fessant fabrice.le_fessant at inria.fr writes: Maybe you should read Tainted Truth: The Manipulation of Fact In America by Cynthia Crossen ? ___ Caml-list mailing list. Subscription management: http://yquem.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/caml-list Archives: http://caml.inria.fr Beginner's list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ocaml_beginners Bug reports: http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-bugs
[Caml-list] Re: Is OCaml fast?
Jon Harrop jonathandeanharrop at googlemail.com writes: Note that the regex-dna solution for Haskell tweaks its GC parameters via the -H command-line parameter: Note that there is no restriction on tuning the GC for regex-dna. Note that there is no restriction on tuning the GC for any task except binary-trees. ___ Caml-list mailing list. Subscription management: http://yquem.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/caml-list Archives: http://caml.inria.fr Beginner's list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ocaml_beginners Bug reports: http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-bugs
[Caml-list] Re: Is OCaml fast?
Jon Harrop jonathandeanharrop at googlemail.com writes: Ketil Malde crafted a much better solution but noted: This is considered cheating, since it is the easy and natural way to do it. - http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/Shootout/Knucleotide Not even cheating - just an answer to a different question. ___ Caml-list mailing list. Subscription management: http://yquem.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/caml-list Archives: http://caml.inria.fr Beginner's list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ocaml_beginners Bug reports: http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-bugs
Re: [Caml-list] Re: Is OCaml fast?
On Tue, 23 Nov 2010 18:03:10 + (UTC) Isaac Gouy igo...@yahoo.com wrote: Jon Harrop jonathandeanharrop at googlemail.com writes: Note that the regex-dna solution for Haskell tweaks its GC parameters via the -H command-line parameter: Note that there is no restriction on tuning the GC for regex-dna. Note that there is no restriction on tuning the GC for any task except binary-trees. Sounds good. Then Ocaml could still win if it performs well on the other benchmarks. Best regards, --Edwin ___ Caml-list mailing list. Subscription management: http://yquem.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/caml-list Archives: http://caml.inria.fr Beginner's list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ocaml_beginners Bug reports: http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-bugs
Re: [Caml-list] Re: Is OCaml fast?
Am Dienstag, den 23.11.2010, 17:53 + schrieb Isaac Gouy: Christophe TROESTLER Christophe.Troestler+ocaml at umh.ac.be writes: On Tue, 23 Nov 2010 02:03:48 +, Isaac Gouy wrote: C version : 12.11 secs OCaml version : 47.22 secs OCaml version with GC parameters tuned (interesting alternative section) : 12.67 secs And of course you know because that GC tuned OCaml program is shown on the benchmarks game website http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/u32/program.php?test=binarytrees; lang=ocamlid=1 Since you are here, please explain why C can use memory pools and vec tor instructions but tuning the GC of OCaml ― although it is part of the standard library ― is considered an “alternative”. You seem to be suggesting that tuning the GC is considered alternative only for OCaml programs. You seem to be suggesting that tuning the GC is considered alternative for every task. Neither is true. You seem to be suggesting some kind of equivalence between vector instructions and tuning the GC. You haven't said why they should be considered equivalent. Nor have you said why you think C should not be allowed to use memory pools. Quite easy: because you are comparing results that cannot be compared. The reader of this benchmark (binary trees) might have the impression that C is generally that fast - however, this would be no longer true if these binary trees were used as library in a bigger program where using memory pools is inappropriate, e.g. because the data managed by the binary trees has an unpredictable lifetime. I do not say that it is complete nonsense to do this comparison, but only that it is more specific than a reader would assume. The innocent reader expects a comparison of binary tree performance, not of methods of managing memory (and this is it finally). The true name of this test should be manage_many_small_memory_cells_where_pools_are_allowed. (It would be actually interesting to compare various versions of this test with different memory management methods.) Gerd ___ Caml-list mailing list. Subscription management: http://yquem.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/caml-list Archives: http://caml.inria.fr Beginner's list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ocaml_beginners Bug reports: http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-bugs -- Gerd Stolpmann, Bad Nauheimer Str.3, 64289 Darmstadt,Germany g...@gerd-stolpmann.de http://www.gerd-stolpmann.de Phone: +49-6151-153855 Fax: +49-6151-997714 ___ Caml-list mailing list. Subscription management: http://yquem.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/caml-list Archives: http://caml.inria.fr Beginner's list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ocaml_beginners Bug reports: http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-bugs
[Caml-list] ANN: ocamlnet-3.1
Hi list, A new version of ocamlnet (3.1) is ready for download and installation. This is mostly a bug fix release (see ChangeLog), but there is also a little extension in Netsys_mem: a function that creates a deep copy of an arbitrary value (copy_value). Download: http://download.camlcity.org/download/ocamlnet-3.1.tar.gz Manual: http://projects.camlcity.org/projects/dl/ocamlnet-3.1/doc/html-main/index.html Please report problems to g...@gerd-stolpmann.de GODI users: ocamlnet-3.1 is only provided for Ocaml 3.12, and in the ocamlnet3 overlay for Ocaml 3.11. Gerd -- Gerd Stolpmann, Bad Nauheimer Str.3, 64289 Darmstadt,Germany g...@gerd-stolpmann.de http://www.gerd-stolpmann.de Phone: +49-6151-153855 Fax: +49-6151-997714 ___ Caml-list mailing list. Subscription management: http://yquem.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/caml-list Archives: http://caml.inria.fr Beginner's list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ocaml_beginners Bug reports: http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-bugs
[Caml-list] Re: Is OCaml fast?
The source of this pharse is unknown, however Mark Twain is credited with making it well known: There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics. Isaac Gouy igo...@yahoo.com writes: Is that book the source for the quotation 'Lies--damned lies--and statistics'? Fabrice Le Fessant fabrice.le_fessant at inria.fr writes: Maybe you should read Tainted Truth: The Manipulation of Fact In America by Cynthia Crossen ? ___ Caml-list mailing list. Subscription management: http://yquem.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/caml-list Archives: http://caml.inria.fr Beginner's list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ocaml_beginners Bug reports: http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-bugs ___ Caml-list mailing list. Subscription management: http://yquem.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/caml-list Archives: http://caml.inria.fr Beginner's list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ocaml_beginners Bug reports: http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-bugs
[Caml-list] Re: Is OCaml fast?
Mark Diekhans markd at kermodei.com writes: The source of this pharse is unknown, however Mark Twain is credited with making it well known: There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics. http://www.york.ac.uk/depts/maths/histstat/lies.htm ___ Caml-list mailing list. Subscription management: http://yquem.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/caml-list Archives: http://caml.inria.fr Beginner's list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ocaml_beginners Bug reports: http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-bugs
[Caml-list] Re: Is OCaml fast?
Török Edwin edwintorok at gmail.com writes: -snip- Sounds good. Then Ocaml could still win if it performs well on the other benchmarks. The main benchmarks game summary is median and quartiles so one measurement doesn't have much influence. There are several tasks which have worse performing OCaml programs than binary-trees. ___ Caml-list mailing list. Subscription management: http://yquem.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/caml-list Archives: http://caml.inria.fr Beginner's list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ocaml_beginners Bug reports: http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-bugs
[Caml-list] Re: Is OCaml fast?
Gerd Stolpmann info at gerd-stolpmann.de writes: -snip- I do not say that it is complete nonsense to do this comparison, but only that it is more specific than a reader would assume. A reader's wrong assumptions are their own responsibility: http://shootou.alioth.debian.org/flawed-benchmarks.php The innocent reader expects a comparison of binary tree performance, not of methods of managing memory (and this is it finally). Perhaps rather than innocent reader you mean careless reader who didn't bother to read what the programs should do? http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/u32q/benchmark.php?test=binarytreeslang=all#about The true name of this test should be manage_many_small_memory_cells_where_pools_are_allowed. binary-trees benchmark : Allocate and deallocate many many binary trees (It would be actually interesting to compare various versions of this test with different memory management methods.) So do that comparison and publish the results. ___ Caml-list mailing list. Subscription management: http://yquem.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/caml-list Archives: http://caml.inria.fr Beginner's list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ocaml_beginners Bug reports: http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-bugs
Re: [Caml-list] Re: Is OCaml fast?
Am Dienstag, den 23.11.2010, 20:28 + schrieb Isaac Gouy: (It would be actually interesting to compare various versions of this test with different memory management methods.) So do that comparison and publish the results. Please don't tell me what I am supposed to do. I'm not a troll like others. Gerd -- Gerd Stolpmann, Bad Nauheimer Str.3, 64289 Darmstadt,Germany g...@gerd-stolpmann.de http://www.gerd-stolpmann.de Phone: +49-6151-153855 Fax: +49-6151-997714 ___ Caml-list mailing list. Subscription management: http://yquem.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/caml-list Archives: http://caml.inria.fr Beginner's list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ocaml_beginners Bug reports: http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-bugs
Re: [Caml-list] Re: Is OCaml fast?
On Tue, 23 Nov 2010 17:53:14 +, Isaac Gouy wrote: Christophe TROESTLER writes: Since you are here, please explain why C can use memory pools and vec tor instructions but tuning the GC of OCaml ― although it is part of the standard library ― is considered an “alternative”. [...] You seem to be suggesting some kind of equivalence between vector instructions and tuning the GC. You haven't said why they should be considered equivalent. I did not say they are equivalent. It is a matter of what is allowed (or not) and for what reason. The question is why is C allowed to use an external library for managing its memory but — for this specific benchmark which is precisely about managing memory — OCaml is not authorized to make use of its very own library! On Tue, 23 Nov 2010 18:03:10 +, Isaac Gouy wrote: Note that there is no restriction on tuning the GC for regex-dna. Note that there is no restriction on tuning the GC for any task except binary-trees. Note that you did not answer my question. ___ Caml-list mailing list. Subscription management: http://yquem.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/caml-list Archives: http://caml.inria.fr Beginner's list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ocaml_beginners Bug reports: http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-bugs
[Caml-list] Re: Is OCaml fast?
Gerd Stolpmann info at gerd-stolpmann.de writes: (It would be actually interesting to compare various versions of this test with different memory management methods.) So do that comparison and publish the results. Please don't tell me what I am supposed to do. I'm not a troll like others. The tone of my comment was not as harsh as you heard. ___ Caml-list mailing list. Subscription management: http://yquem.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/caml-list Archives: http://caml.inria.fr Beginner's list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ocaml_beginners Bug reports: http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-bugs
RE: [Caml-list] Re: Is OCaml fast?
Yes, an answer to a better question. -Original Message- From: caml-list-boun...@yquem.inria.fr [mailto:caml-list- boun...@yquem.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Isaac Gouy Sent: 23 November 2010 18:07 To: caml-l...@inria.fr Subject: [Caml-list] Re: Is OCaml fast? Jon Harrop jonathandeanharrop at googlemail.com writes: Ketil Malde crafted a much better solution but noted: This is considered cheating, since it is the easy and natural way to do it. - http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/Shootout/Knucleotide Not even cheating - just an answer to a different question. ___ Caml-list mailing list. Subscription management: http://yquem.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/caml-list Archives: http://caml.inria.fr Beginner's list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ocaml_beginners Bug reports: http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-bugs ___ Caml-list mailing list. Subscription management: http://yquem.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/caml-list Archives: http://caml.inria.fr Beginner's list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ocaml_beginners Bug reports: http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-bugs
[Caml-list] Re: Is OCaml fast?
Christophe TROESTLER Christophe.Troestler+ocaml at umh.ac.be writes: -snip- The question is why is C allowed to use an external library for managing its memory I asked why you think C should not be allowed to use memory pools - you haven't tried to answer that question. If you think that C should not be allowed to use memory pools because they are provided in an external library then I disagree - I think it's fine to show use of popular external libraries. Of course, a C program that just uses malloc is also shown. but — for this specific benchmark which is precisely about managing memory — OCaml is not authorized to make use of its very own library! OCaml is authorized to make use of its very own library. Just like all the other programming language implementations, for binary-trees, OCaml is not authorized to tune the GC. ___ Caml-list mailing list. Subscription management: http://yquem.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/caml-list Archives: http://caml.inria.fr Beginner's list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ocaml_beginners Bug reports: http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-bugs
Re: [Caml-list] Re: Is OCaml fast?
On Tue, Nov 23, 2010 at 06:03:10PM +, Isaac Gouy wrote: Jon Harrop jonathandeanharrop at googlemail.com writes: Note that the regex-dna solution for Haskell tweaks its GC parameters via the -H command-line parameter: Note that there is no restriction on tuning the GC for regex-dna. Note that there is no restriction on tuning the GC for any task except binary-trees. Don't you think this is a pretty ludicrous restriction? Tuning the GC / adjusting the size of pools or mallocs is essential for optimizing for modern processors. I bet the C programs are doing this, except that it won't obviously be called tuning the GC although it amounts to precisely the same thing. Rich. -- Richard Jones Red Hat ___ Caml-list mailing list. Subscription management: http://yquem.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/caml-list Archives: http://caml.inria.fr Beginner's list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ocaml_beginners Bug reports: http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-bugs
Re: [Caml-list] Is OCaml fast?
On Mon, Nov 22, 2010 at 05:55:02AM -0800, Dario Teixeira wrote: Hi, I am on the fence about whether to learn OCaml or not, and while reading an article called Why OCaml (http://www.cs.ubc.ca/~murphyk/Software/Ocaml/why_ocaml.html), I saw that OCaml was praised for the speed of the executables it generates - and was referred to, speed-wise, as second to none, except C and C++. Yes, Ocaml is fast (more on that later), but you should consider speed as just the icing in the cake. [...] But if it were not performant enough, I (and many others too, I think) would consider it being a nice toy language. AFAIK in the past, functional langauges were not adapted, because they were very unperformant - at least this is one reason. Another reason might be, that the available functional languages in the past were overloaded with parenthess ;) Ciao, Oliver ___ Caml-list mailing list. Subscription management: http://yquem.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/caml-list Archives: http://caml.inria.fr Beginner's list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ocaml_beginners Bug reports: http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-bugs
Re: [Caml-list] Desktop GUI toolkits - current state of the art?
I'm not sure which examples you looked at for lablgtk2. The goals of lablgtk are: * be as close as possible to the spirit of Gtk+ * while providing type and memory safety * and allow comfortable use through objects and optional arguments This resulted in a 2-layer implementation, with a lower layer that just wraps basic Gtk+ calls, and an object layer on top of it. Some examples mix the two layers, which may look strange, but I think that when you use only the upper layer, this is clean enough. (The lower layer is not dirty, but converting between the two may be verbose and look clumsy). The obvious alternative to lablgtk2 is of course labltk. I personally think that labltk is still the easiest way to build a GUI, but many do not like Tk's lookfeel. I'm not aware of other GUI toolkits for ocaml, but I think there are also web-based UIs. Jacques Garrigue On Tue, Nov 23, 2010 at 11:19 PM, Martin DeMello martindeme...@gmail.com wrote: What are the actively developed options for writing desktop GUI apps in OCaml? Anything other than lablgtk2 (which, at least from a brief look through the examples, looks rather ugly, codewise, compared to, say, vala or ruby/gtk)? I'll use lablgtk2 in a pinch, but I'm curious as to whether anyone has been experimenting with toolkit bindings with an eye towards better syntax and APIs. (Note that I don't care about a native look and feel, I'm more interested in how the code looks.) martin ___ Caml-list mailing list. Subscription management: http://yquem.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/caml-list Archives: http://caml.inria.fr Beginner's list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ocaml_beginners Bug reports: http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-bugs ___ Caml-list mailing list. Subscription management: http://yquem.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/caml-list Archives: http://caml.inria.fr Beginner's list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ocaml_beginners Bug reports: http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-bugs
[Caml-list] Re: Is OCaml fast?
Hi, Regarding alternative solutions to the shootout problems: The thread ring problem can be easily implemented using Lwt yielding (pun intended ;)) performance comparable to the haskell solution have fun, Romain. ___ Caml-list mailing list. Subscription management: http://yquem.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/caml-list Archives: http://caml.inria.fr Beginner's list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ocaml_beginners Bug reports: http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-bugs
Re: [Caml-list] Re: Is OCaml fast?
On Tue, Nov 23, 2010 at 02:01:33AM +, Isaac Gouy wrote: David Rajchenbach-Teller David.Teller at univ-orleans.fr writes: I can confirm that old code-snippets were removed (and that both faster solutions and environment variable tweaks were rejected). Even back in 2001, Doug Bagley had noted all the things that were wrong with the tasks on his The Great Computer Language Shootout. And what was wrong in his eyes? During autumn 2004, on Brent Fulgham's website, new tasks were added and old Doug Bagley tasks removed. By 2005 only 2 tasks remained from that old Doug Bagley website. By August 2008 none of those old Doug Bagley tasks were measured for the current benchmarks game. So, now the comparisions are perfect? What problems were removed? Ciao, Oliver ___ Caml-list mailing list. Subscription management: http://yquem.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/caml-list Archives: http://caml.inria.fr Beginner's list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ocaml_beginners Bug reports: http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-bugs
Re: [Caml-list] Desktop GUI toolkits - current state of the art?
On Nov 23, 2010, at 6:19 AM, Martin DeMello wrote: What are the actively developed options for writing desktop GUI apps in OCaml? Anything other than lablgtk2 (which, at least from a brief look through the examples, looks rather ugly, codewise, compared to, say, vala or ruby/gtk)? What is better looking in vala or ruby/gtk ? I'll use lablgtk2 in a pinch, but I'm curious as to whether anyone has been experimenting with toolkit bindings with an eye towards better syntax and APIs. What you don't like in lablgtk ? Something I definitely does not like with lablgtk are the type errors (but I doubt ruby/gtk is better in that respect ...; I still prefer hard-to-read type errors than no-type-checking). (Note that I don't care about a native look and feel, I'm more interested in how the code looks.) martin ___ Caml-list mailing list. Subscription management: http://yquem.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/caml-list Archives: http://caml.inria.fr Beginner's list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ocaml_beginners Bug reports: http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-bugs ___ Caml-list mailing list. Subscription management: http://yquem.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/caml-list Archives: http://caml.inria.fr Beginner's list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ocaml_beginners Bug reports: http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-bugs
Re: [Caml-list] Desktop GUI toolkits - current state of the art?
On 11/23/2010 3:19 PM, Martin DeMello wrote: What are the actively developed options for writing desktop GUI apps in OCaml? Anything other than lablgtk2 (which, at least from a brief look through the examples, looks rather ugly, codewise, compared to, say, vala or ruby/gtk)? I'll use lablgtk2 in a pinch, but I'm curious as to whether anyone has been experimenting with toolkit bindings with an eye towards better syntax and APIs. If you're under Windows, you might be interested in the CSML tool. It allows you to build quite easily your own binding to .Net libraries. The CSML distribution contains an example of a mini-binding to Windows Forms; you can also see that in screenshots: http://www.lexifi.com/csml LexiFi uses CSML to build Windows Forms application, but most of our GUIs are managed by a higher-level layer, not direct calls to Windows Forms. As a matter of fact, we generate most of the GUIs that are intended to show or edit structured values, automatically from OCaml type definitions. We have a few local extensions to the OCaml compiler that makes it easier to build nice APIs for GUI toolkits, with a functional flavor: implicit subtyping and generalized recursion. Hopefully, I'll be able to blog about these extensions and how they are used for GUI programming some day. Alain ___ Caml-list mailing list. Subscription management: http://yquem.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/caml-list Archives: http://caml.inria.fr Beginner's list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ocaml_beginners Bug reports: http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-bugs
Re: [Caml-list] Re: Is OCaml fast?
Hello, I think that this benchmark is lacking in the algorithms department. Where is a dynamic programming problem? A graph algorithm? Anything with non-trivial time/space complexity? Anything a little more complex than matrix product? Also, it's not uncommon to disallow low-level optimizations such as writing memory allocators and async file access when comparing implementations of an algorithm, but such restrictions should be carried out uniformly. In such a benchmark I would expect each entry to stick to their guns, i.e. use only the standard libraries and programming styles for instance. Linking in foreign libraries must most definitely be disallowed. So, if in Java, it's necessary to call the garbage collector explicitly from time to time, and we had to do that for a long time, so be it. Or again, if in Java, performance will suffer unless you only use arrays of integral types, the implementer may wish to implement as much as is possible with arrays, though I wonder if it is not better to choose the most natural implementation style for the particular language. In the case of Java, the claim was that object-oriented was some kind of a programming-aid that can replace talented programmers :) It's unfortunate of course that some kinds of optimizations always have to be made by hand, for instance in functional languages many compilers do not have deforestation. Otherwise, of course, any implementation may include a compiler for the fastest language and present a program in that language, which is not the objective. An alternative objective could be to compare the shortest and most comprehensible, if possible line-to-line compatible implementation of a given pseudocode in different languages. That would be extremely informative for serious algorithm researchers! If a computer scientist isn't sure of the performance of the primitives, he cannot make sure his implementation will comply with the time-complexity of the given algorithm. Best Regards, On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 2:23 AM, Isaac Gouy igo...@yahoo.com wrote: oliver at first.in-berlin.de writes: Even back in 2001, Doug Bagley had noted all the things that were wrong with the tasks on his The Great Computer Language Shootout. And what was wrong in his eyes? Find out for yourself: http://web.archive.org/web/20010617014807/www.bagley.org/~doug/shootout/http://web.archive.org/web/20010617014807/www.bagley.org/%7Edoug/shootout/ So, now the comparisions are perfect? Has anyone said so? What problems were removed? All of them. ___ Caml-list mailing list. Subscription management: http://yquem.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/caml-list Archives: http://caml.inria.fr Beginner's list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ocaml_beginners Bug reports: http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-bugs -- Eray Ozkural, PhD candidate. Comp. Sci. Dept., Bilkent University, Ankara http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ai-philosophy http://myspace.com/arizanesil http://myspace.com/malfunct ___ Caml-list mailing list. Subscription management: http://yquem.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/caml-list Archives: http://caml.inria.fr Beginner's list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ocaml_beginners Bug reports: http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-bugs
[Caml-list] OCaml memory leak issue
Hi, I used valgrind to check the memory usage of my OCaml byte code, but I found that a memory leak. I'm very confused what the problem is. I tried a very simple code as following, and compileed it. +++ let test = let a = 1 in let b = a + 5 in printf %d\n b; ;; test;; +++ And I run valgrind to check: valgrind --leak-check=yes ./obj/x86_LINUX/test5.byte.exe I got the following report: ==21692== Memcheck, a memory error detector ==21692== Copyright (C) 2002-2009, and GNU GPL'd, by Julian Seward et al. ==21692== Using Valgrind-3.5.0 and LibVEX; rerun with -h for copyright info ==21692== Command: ./obj/x86_LINUX/test5.byte.exe ==21692== 6 ==21692== ==21692== HEAP SUMMARY: ==21692== in use at exit: 430,488 bytes in 20 blocks ==21692== total heap usage: 68 allocs, 48 frees, 446,837 bytes allocated ==21692== ==21692== 120 bytes in 1 blocks are definitely lost in loss record 9 of 17 ==21692==at 0x4A05E1C: malloc (vg_replace_malloc.c:195) ==21692==by 0x9AA510: caml_init_major_heap (in /home/kecheng/symbolic_simulation/cvc_test/cvc_1.5/obj/x86_LINUX/test5.byte.exe) ==21692==by 0x9A2A1A: caml_init_gc (in /home/kecheng/symbolic_simulation/cvc_test/cvc_1.5/obj/x86_LINUX/test5.byte.exe) ==21692==by 0x997E9D: caml_main (in /home/kecheng/symbolic_simulation/cvc_test/cvc_1.5/obj/x86_LINUX/test5.byte.exe) ==21692==by 0x9981CB: main (in /home/kecheng/symbolic_simulation/cvc_test/cvc_1.5/obj/x86_LINUX/test5.byte.exe) ==21692== ==21692== LEAK SUMMARY: ==21692==definitely lost: 120 bytes in 1 blocks ==21692==indirectly lost: 0 bytes in 0 blocks ==21692== possibly lost: 0 bytes in 0 blocks ==21692==still reachable: 430,368 bytes in 19 blocks ==21692== suppressed: 0 bytes in 0 blocks ==21692== Reachable blocks (those to which a pointer was found) are not shown. ==21692== To see them, rerun with: --leak-check=full --show-reachable=yes ==21692== ==21692== For counts of detected and suppressed errors, rerun with: -v ==21692== ERROR SUMMARY: 1 errors from 1 contexts (suppressed: 4 from 4) Kecheng 2010-11-23 ___ Caml-list mailing list. Subscription management: http://yquem.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/caml-list Archives: http://caml.inria.fr Beginner's list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ocaml_beginners Bug reports: http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-bugs
[Caml-list] Re: Is OCaml fast?
Andrew newsgroups.fr at gmail.com writes: +1. Seriously, Isaac, try to calm down, everything is fine. You might want to read what others write, I have the feeling that many people were making valid points, whereas you have mostly been turning down any objection by pointing people to the same webpage and again. Seriously, Andrew, I have been calm. You might want to read what others write. I have the feeling that a list of those valid points would be a better basis for discussion than your feeling. A quick count shows 8 URIs all different - so you are plainly wrong, I have not been pointing people to the same webpage and again. ___ Caml-list mailing list. Subscription management: http://yquem.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/caml-list Archives: http://caml.inria.fr Beginner's list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ocaml_beginners Bug reports: http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-bugs
