Re: Can Bluray Players see ISO9660 Filesystems?
> On Sun, Feb 02, 2020 at 12:36:56AM -0500, Roger wrote: >Can bluray players view ISO9660 filesystems? ... > >Suggestions feedback for creating/backing-up photos/video to BDR with TV >Bluray >player hardware support? > >(Note, I'm not concerned about creating an auto menu play system, etc, just >for >file viewing.) Here's an initial follow-up from my brief experience with recently purchasing TV Bluray players and attempting to play (after-market) standalone video streams recorded onto optical BD-R/DVD+R or USB flash media. The Philips BDP1502 player refused to see anything other than AVCHD formated video on both Optical and USB methods, whether UDF or FAT32 formated, and tried using upper and lower case letters. I tried file suffixes *.ts, *.mts, and *.m2ts for kicks. Philip's manual states the player plays video formats "H264, MPEG2, AVCHD"; however I think they're citing Blu-ray Movie related separate media streams and not the combined audio/video after-market video streams. The graphical interface provides a hint upon mouse-over of "Optical/VIDEO" -> "AVCHD" "USB/VIDEO" -> "AVCHD". For those without knowledge of AVCHD, it is a folder/file structure similar to Blu-ray folder/file structures, or AVCHD is typically only used by camcorders, not readily end-user usable format. A good tip or hint as to deciding whether a Blu-ray player will play certain media, examine the PDF user manuals. LG's Blu-ray user manuals seem to be worded similar to the Philips Blu-ray player user manual, having omissions and vagueness when trying to ascertain the ability of playback for standalone video. Sony's well worded user manuals seemed to explicitly state their Blu-ray player(s) (eg. BDP-S1700/3700) will playback standalone media recorded to end-user optical or USB flash media, or to the extent of documenting many common nowadays supported after-market/end-user codecs. Sony's Blu-rays also playback DSD video streams. Their Bluray players do recognize/play both *.ts and *.mts files types, or their manual cites likely ignoring suffixes and attempt to read the file contents. Most manufacturer users manuals more commonly document *.mts rather than the *.ts file suffix. FFMpeg created *.ts and *.mts streams are identical (eg. diff), so I'll likely rename to the *.mts suffix when I check Hauppauge recorded TS streams using FFMpeg. (eg. ffmpeg -i input.ts -vcodec copy -acodec copy output.mts) If you're reading this thread for an answer, buy a Sony Blu-ray player for compatibility as the Sony players only require recording a compatible video stream into the root folder of optical or USB flash media. Although slightly off-topic, I do not like the wireless versions nor having the streaming options. I wish there were an option for turning-off all the undesirable features; for having the unit act as a standard Blu-ray/DVD player rather than a Roku streaming device. My work-flow: Streams created with Hauppauge ATSC TV PCIe card (WinTV-HVR-2250) and recording to DVD+R/BD-R media. Verify the created transport stream conforms to some standard, with fixed/omit packets. $ ffmpeg -i input.ts -vcodec copy -acodec copy output.mts Record to DVD+R/BD-R optical media. $ growisofs -dvd-compat -speed=1 -Z /dev/sr0 -J -iso-level 3 -no-bak -rock -udf -V "TITLE_NAME" ./*.mts NOTE: The "-UDF"/"-udf" mkisofs option adds 505,856KB to a 21GB image having a root folder with four file names. TIP: Probably a good idea to ensure any recorded stream is meeting (FFMpeg's) standards by performing a stream copy, whether or not the stream is of the same container type or file suffix. (eg. FFMpeg "-vcodec copy -acodec copy"). I find some stream errors or packet errors when running Hauppauge's or over-the-air ATSC TS streams through FFMPEG, of which will prevent playback on TV Bluray players as well as preventing some software tools from reading/playing. (FFMpeg is the swiss pocket knife of the audio/video streaming world.) -- Roger http://rogerx.sdf.org/
Re: Can Bluray Players see ISO9660 Filesystems?
> On Mon, Feb 03, 2020 at 11:58:07AM +0100, Joerg Schilling wrote: >Roger wrote: > >> Can bluray players view ISO9660 filesystems? >> >> If so, is it preferable to still use "growisofs -udf -iso-level 3 ..."? > >growisofs is unmaintained and this no longer preferred. I noticed, as I spend some time reading his avid note taking, and use dvd+rw-tools quite often. >Use mkisofs. Note that growisofs use mkisofs to create udf filesystems. The "-UDF"/"-udf" switch, as documented within the mkisofs man file, sectors 20-256 are supposedly wasted. I calculated this to be about 236 sectors * 2048 bytes (as 2048 bytes are contained within one DVD sector), is about 483,328 bytes, or roughly ~483MB. However, speculating upon the wording of the man page, the usage as you already stated, is likely just minimal. >A Bluray Players may support ISO-9660, but there is no need, since movies have >their own data structures in the *IFO files that are located via a magic >number >and must be in a spoecific block range on the medium. > >The standard requires the UDF that is implemented in mkisofs since 2001. On that note concerning the "standard", my gut instict is to just use the "-UDF"/"-udf" options. The wasted space is likely a moat issue, and only a concern when preserving a copy of copywrited DVD/BD material. My DVD/BD recorded media should be viewable via a very basic file system viewer/menu on TV standalone bluray players, manually selected and viewed/played, as long as the standalong player has the decoders. I'll do my research based on what you stated here, as I've been using CLI growisofs. I also *just* noticed the ability of using cp/rm (POSIX) tools with DVD+RW/BD-RE not requiring the Linux kernel pktcdvd driver (supposedly marked deprecated as of 2016), although I have yet to test writing with larger files, likely expect more noise or random writing at 2kb writes instead of 32kb writes. Remember, the intent of this thread is TV standalong bluray players, not related to PC equipment. I just desire to make non-copyrighted files such as photos and recorded video only viewed/playable without nice looking menus, other eye-candy, or automatic playback, etc. I might have to buy a cheap standalone player to ensure the player is acting as it should with the chosen recording process, rather than just assuming. Surprising I cannot find more information on the Internet concerning a simplified process, and guessing most just run-off and use the graphical tools. Or, people have been using mkisofs (or growisofs with) -dvd-audio/-dvd-hybrid/-dvd-video all along. -- Roger http://rogerx.sdf.org/
Re: Can Bluray Players see ISO9660 Filesystems?
Hi, Roger wrote: > Glad to see a heart beat on this mailing list! After sending, thought this > mailing list was completely inactive! It nearly is inactive. Once it was a common discussion forum for free burn programs. I fear that we have no Blu-ray video experts here. > I noticed the "-udf" option for mkisofs [...] creating > a bridged or hybrid type filesystem. [...] > So this should create a > readable BD-R media for TV bluray players, but not necessarily playable due > to a missing directory structure/file? Afaik, mkisofs can prepare an UDF hybrid for DVD video players. See its option -dvd-video and the examples in the web. There are tools like http://dvdauthor.sourceforge.net/ which use mkisofs to produce the UDF filesystem around their video specific files. But for Blu-ray there seems to be no similar tool. i wrote: > >Try (by a BD-RE medium to avoid waste) > Yup, after two days, finally found my boxed-up DVD+RW & BD-RE media. > Making this a little more difficult, the Linux pktcdvd driver is slated as > deprecated/removal, albeit oddly since 2016 and still is within the kernel. You don't need pktcdvd if you burn the medium by a burn program. This driver is needed only if you want to write by normal POSIX I/O functions to formatted CD-RW or DVD-RW. Its job is to bundle the write operations to full 32 KiB chunks, which the media in question expect as transaction size. DVD-RAM, DVD+RW, and BD-RE have a transaction size of 2 KiB. They can be written by POSIX means without the help of pktcdvd. I.e. you can format a filesystem on them and mount it for reading and writing. (Only problem is that it will be darn slow, make noises, and wear off your BD drive quicker than burn programs would do.) > Hopefully I don't have to waste money on a TV bluray player for checking on > this filesystem readability issue. I would expect mixed results, depending on the age and maker of the player. If you need to have the BD play on arbitrary players, then i expect that you have to use a Blu-ray authoring tool on MS-Windows or MacOS. Have a nice day :) Thomas
Re: Can Bluray Players see ISO9660 Filesystems?
Glad to see a heart beat on this mailing list! After sending, thought this mailing list was completely inactive! > On Sun, Feb 02, 2020 at 10:45:49PM +0100, Thomas Schmitt wrote: >Roger wrote: >> Can bluray players view ISO9660 filesystems? >Option -udf will give it a UDF superblock and directory tree. Most >system will prefer this over the ISO 9660 superblock and tree. Specifically focused on 3rd party TV related bluray players (eg. Sony, LG, Samsung, ...) I noticed the "-udf" option for mkisofs (and applicable for growisofs) creating a bridged or hybrid type filesystem. (mkisofs notes, wastes space ... when using "-udf" option, look like minimal space though.) So this should create a readable BD-R media for TV bluray players, but not necessarily playable due to a missing directory structure/file? My best guess is recent TV bluray players should likely have no problem reading any UDF filesystem disc, although I would be more satisified to see most recent players able to read an ISO9660 disc. I would expect recent TV players should read both filesystems, as people do tend to backup photos, video and audio to DVDR/BDR media; and likely not going to waste time with editing structure files. They just need some form of shareable media, but think the usb flash media has locked-up the market on this for now except for being reliable/stable media. >> Suggestions feedback for creating/backing-up photos/video to BDR with TV >> Bluray player hardware support? > >Wikipedia says you need UDF 2.50 or higher and you have to provide a >particular directory structure: > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-ray#Data_format_standards >I am not aware of a program which would produce this on Linux or BSD. >Some people use Wine and old versions of MS-Windows Blu-ray authoring >programs. > >Try (by a BD-RE medium to avoid waste) whether your target player can >access files in the UDF version of growisofs/mkisofs or in ISO 9660. Yup, after two days, finally found my boxed-up DVD+RW & BD-RE media. Making this a little more difficult, the Linux pktcdvd driver is slated as deprecated/removal, albeit oddly since 2016 and still is within the kernel. Hopefully I don't have to waste money on a TV bluray player for checking on this filesystem readability issue. Another option for testing is if there were TV bluray player firmware booting via emulation software. -- Roger http://rogerx.sdf.org/
Re: Can Bluray Players see ISO9660 Filesystems?
Hi, Roger wrote: > Can bluray players view ISO9660 filesystems? It depends on the operating system that shall interpret the filesystem. If the Blu-ray drive is attached to a PC-like computer with general purpose operating system, then: yes. If the drive is in a video player box with its own (obscure) operating system, then ISO 9660 might not be usable. > If so, is it preferable to still use "growisofs -udf -iso-level 3 ..."? Option -udf will give it a UDF superblock and directory tree. Most system will prefer this over the ISO 9660 superblock and tree. > Suggestions feedback for creating/backing-up photos/video to BDR with TV > Bluray player hardware support? Wikipedia says you need UDF 2.50 or higher and you have to provide a particular directory structure: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-ray#Data_format_standards I am not aware of a program which would produce this on Linux or BSD. Some people use Wine and old versions of MS-Windows Blu-ray authoring programs. Try (by a BD-RE medium to avoid waste) whether your target player can access files in the UDF version of growisofs/mkisofs or in ISO 9660. Have a nice day :) Thomas
Can Bluray Players see ISO9660 Filesystems?
Can bluray players view ISO9660 filesystems? If so, is it preferable to still use "growisofs -udf -iso-level 3 ..."? Or, is it preferable to use mkudffs and mount BDR media for packet writing for Bluray player readability/compatibilty? Suggestions feedback for creating/backing-up photos/video to BDR with TV Bluray player hardware support? (Note, I'm not concerned about creating an auto menu play system, etc, just for file viewing.) -- Roger http://rogerx.sdf.org/
