Re: [CentOS] Any downside to mount -o noatime?
On Wed, Feb 09, 2022 at 02:09:44PM -0800, Kenneth Porter wrote: > I'd like to reduce the wear-and-tear on my SSDs and eliminate the > unnecessary metadata writes on my backup media that only slow down > the backup process. So I want to add noatime to all my mounts. Is > there any downside to this? > > At one time I remember atime being useful for tmpwatch, which > removes files in /tmp that haven't been accessed in a week or two. > But I can live without that feature. relatime has been the default for a long time -- that only updates atime once per some reasonable timeperiod. The wear and tear from that is negligible and you can still get a basic idea of when files where accessed. -- Matthew Miller Fedora Project Leader ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] OT:: Multiple PHP versions
On Wed, Dec 15, 2021 at 02:31:20PM +0100, Markus Falb wrote: > Yes, but you have to think about it's maintainance status, be it a SCL > or packages in COPR or elsewhere. If it's unmaintained you might not > want to use it, especially if Software weaknesses might be exploited > remotely. Take a look at Remi Collet's https://rpms.remirepo.net/. He is the maintainer for the Fedora packages and the SCLs, and very passionate about PHP. As I understand it, he is providing security updates for the 7.4 SCL available from there through the end of next year (when upstream PHP drops support). -- Matthew Miller Fedora Project Leader ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Delete local user/group but not LDAP one
On Fri, Nov 26, 2021 at 08:27:32AM +0100, Felix Natter wrote: > I attached the /etc/libuser.conf. Is it safe to use luserdel/lgroupdel > with these settings (without affecting LDAP)? > > modules = files shadow Yeah, it should be. Basically, this is only working because the standard modern tooling just ignores that thing. -- Matthew Miller Fedora Project Leader ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Delete local user/group but not LDAP one
On Thu, Nov 25, 2021 at 10:30:22PM -0800, Gordon Messmer wrote: > I suppose someone should file bug reports. luserdel probably could > be used to confine actions to the local host, as long as > ansible/puppet provided their own libuser.conf and set the > LIBUSER_CONF to the path of that file... Yeah. But that's kind of silly. There's gotta be a better way. https://github.com/ansible/ansible/issues/76376 -- Matthew Miller Fedora Project Leader ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Delete local user/group but not LDAP one
On Thu, Nov 25, 2021 at 06:36:36PM +0100, Thomas Mueller wrote: > >I have a computer with a local user X that shadows an LDAP user of the > >same name (and group). > > > >I know I can use: > >userdel X > >groupdel X > > check luserdel and lgroupdel . The prefix l is for local. :-) Oh, except... it's not. The l is for "libuser" — those tools are samples for the libuser package, https://pagure.io/libuser. And libuser absolutely can affect LDAP, depending on the system configuration. -- Matthew Miller Fedora Project Leader ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Difference between CentOS Linux and CentOS Stream
On Wed, Jul 21, 2021 at 11:22:59AM +0300, Nikolaos Milas wrote: > Rocky Linux is here too and it steadily establishes itself as the > new standard in terms of a CentOS successor. From what I'm seeing in terms of numbers from watching EPEL¹, CentOS Stream is the most popular "successor". For RHEL rebuilds, Oracle is the most popular but will soon be overtaken² by Alma Linux. Rocky Linux has just started to show up on the radar; it'll be interesting to see what the trends look like in six months. Also worth noting that CentOS Linux continues to grow — this is CentOS Linux 8 installations, as this method doesn't include anything before that. 1. https://twitter.com/mattdm/status/141863117683489/photo/1 2. Caveat: Oracle Linux is undercounted here because they have their own EPEL rebuild -- Matthew Miller Fedora Project Leader ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] CentOS Board welcomes new directors
On Thu, Jun 10, 2021 at 08:33:32AM -0400, Rich Bowen wrote: > The CentOS Board of Directors is delighted to welcome two new > directors - Davide Cavalca and Josh Boyer - to the Board. Congratulations -- excellent choices! -- Matthew Miller Fedora Project Leader ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Centos versions in the future?
On Tue, Apr 27, 2021 at 11:24:40AM -0700, Gordon Messmer wrote: > Rawhide is a development (beta?) release. I would love to get to the point where I feel comfortable saying that Fedora Rawhide is a perpetual beta. The current status is more like "perpetual alpha" — in fact, Fedora dropped our "alpha releases" in favor of applying the same criteria to Rawhide continuously, so it's not just an analogy. But we do branch from there for a stabilization period, from which we have beta and then final releases of Fedora Linux. -- Matthew Miller Fedora Project Leader ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] How to find out what's eating the bandwidth
On Sun, Mar 28, 2021 at 11:36:00AM -0600, Frank Cox wrote: > It's a really basic setup "routers from Staples" (dlink and tplink brands I > think) plugged into the ISP's modems. > > You're right that you generally can't see everything from just any computer > > on a network, at least if it's switched. You need to watch from your > > gateway. > > Then I'm outta luck for doing this sort of thing since the gateways are > the tplink and dlink routers. I thought that might be the case. There are two options you could explore: * putting openwrt or another open-source firmware on those devices, if they support them. * Use a CentOS (since that's the list!) box with two NICs as a bridge and configure that for snooping. Or I guess option 3 would be to replace the routers with ones which do allow you use an open firmware. You could even do that temporarily just for the experiment. And finally, an option four: some router brands have their own proprietary bandwidth monitor tools. Asus, for example. (Note that you probably can't get full gigabit speeds with this enabled on an off-the-shelf consumer router, though.) -- Matthew Miller Fedora Project Leader ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] How to find out what's eating the bandwidth
On Sun, Mar 28, 2021 at 10:53:49AM -0600, Frank Cox wrote: > Is there a program that will tell me what's eating the bandwidth on a lan? > I'm thinking of something that would tell me that a.b.c.d is using so many > mbps and a.b.c.e is using this many and so on. Is this a home network or a business one? If a home setup (or small business with consumer-style networking), https://openwrt.org/docs/guide-user/services/network_monitoring/bwmon > Or can just-another-computer-on-the-network actually see that sort of > information? I don't know enough about the low level nuts and bolts of > networking to know if it has that kind of access. I'm really just > interested in volume of traffic per attached device rather than specific > origin/destination information if that's easier to obtain. You're right that you generally can't see everything from just any computer on a network, at least if it's switched. You need to watch from your gateway. -- Matthew Miller Fedora Project Leader ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Disk read io very high, but no process perform io read
On Fri, Mar 05, 2021 at 03:54:14PM +0800, yf chu wrote: > We have experienced a very weird problem. The load of the server machine is > very high. We use "pidstat" and find that the disk read io is very high. Is this system a VM? -- Matthew Miller Fedora Project Leader ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] not a Centos topic, but since many had concerns ......
On Tue, Feb 02, 2021 at 03:49:35PM -0700, R C wrote: > This is what I read today, might have been around longer though, don't know. > > > "New Year, new Red Hat Enterprise Linux programs: Easier ways to > access RHEL" > > https://www.redhat.com/en/blog/new-year-new-red-hat-enterprise-linux-programs-easier-ways-access-rhel It came out a few weeks ago but the program is live as of yesterday. In short: 1. Register at https://developers.redhat.com/register 2. You'll now see a developer subscription allowing up to 16 systems listed at https://access.redhat.com/management/subscriptions 3. Download and install from https://developers.redhat.com/products/rhel/download 4. sudo subscription-manager register --username $USERNAME (where $USERNAME is the email address you registered with) and there you go. It says "Developer Subscription" but the new terms allow each individual to have up to 16 systems for production use. See the (single page) terms here: https://www.redhat.com/wapps/tnc/viewterms/72ce03fd-1564-41f3-9707-a09747625585?extIdCarryOver=true_cid=701f201Css0AAC It may also be of interest to note something which I hadn't realized before: this subscription includes the "EUS" offering which provides security updates to select minor releases (so you can "pin" to that minor release), which is something CentOS never did. -- Matthew Miller Fedora Project Leader ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] How do I download RHEL 8.3 with free license and free subscription for my production servers?
On Thu, Jan 28, 2021 at 02:13:41PM -0500, Mike McCarthy, W1NR wrote: > It seems to be available now. Just log into or create a "Developer > Network" account and they just showed up under my "subscriptions" tab. > Once you do that it seems like it's all one account. It was confusing > why I had to do a separate step. It is my understanding that this is still the previous developer program subscription and not the new one with the new terms. I think it also isn't enabled for the new Simple Content Access thing. This is not an official statement, just what I understand. -- Matthew Miller Fedora Project Leader ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] RHEL changes
On Fri, Jan 22, 2021 at 05:41:11PM -0600, John R. Dennison wrote: > I am not sure that speaking in absolutes does anyone any good. Sure. Anything can happen, but these particular things are highly unlikely, and not just arbitrarily. If either of them were to happen, there would absolutely (sorry, can't help it) be worse problems than "can rebuilds still be made?" -- Matthew Miller Fedora Project Leader ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] RHEL changes
On Fri, Jan 22, 2021 at 08:35:44PM +, Jamie Burchell wrote: > Can RH put a stop to projects like Rocky Linux? Yes, in two possible ways. First, Red Hat could stop making RHEL. The amount of work that goes into this is _quite_ significant, particularly in terms of the long-term stability that everyone is very excited about. Rebuild projects would then have nothing to rebuild. But, Red Hat isn't going to do that, because RHEL is important to Red Hat both as a product and as a base for the company's other projects. Second, Red Hat goes way beyond the obligations of the licenses of many of the pieces of software that comprise the distribution. Large, vital swaths of RHEL are not under "copyleft" style licenses. Without the full source published in a regular and timely manner, rebuilds couldn't exist. But, Red Hat isn't going to do that, for a number of reasons but mostly because free and open source is essential to what Red Hat *is* as a company. And it's not just a goodwill thing or whatever: everyone from the front lines up to the highest levels knows that it's key to our business success. -- Matthew Miller Fedora Project Leader ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] RHEL changes
On Fri, Jan 22, 2021 at 07:25:04AM -0500, Konstantin Boyandin via CentOS wrote: > I wonder whether RH plan to fight back FUD they've brought upon by their > December announcement. I mean really the only thing we can do is live up to the given plan with Stream and RHEL options, which as far as I can see is exactly what's happening. > Personally, I found this "no-cost" promise lacking substantial details. This is just the announcement of it, of course. The full details will be there when the whole thing is launched, which the announcement says will be very soon. > If RH doesn't verify everyone requesting developer subscription (forcing > to prove identity), the 16 installations limit is easily circumvented by > multiple registrations. There are always going to be cheaters. Don't be one of them. -- Matthew Miller Fedora Project Leader ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] CentOS Stream suitability as a production webserver
On Tue, Jan 05, 2021 at 11:31:34PM +, Jamie Burchell wrote: > Off topic for sure, but it's a shame this has to be a manual process of > destroying and rebuilding every X years. Even Microsoft has gone the Apple > way and just perpetually updates Windows 10 now. Red Hat is working on this with a tool called "Leapp" for RHEL 7 to 8 upgrades. I have no idea if this or something similar is going to be available for the Stream 8 to 9 transition, but it'd definitely be useful and I think in everyone's interest (because Red Hat wants as many Stream users as possible on the latest release). https://www.redhat.com/en/blog/upgrading-rhel-7-rhel-8-leapp-and-boom -- Matthew Miller Fedora Project Leader ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] question centos stream 8 applying updates
On Tue, Dec 22, 2020 at 05:39:57PM -0300, Sergio Belkin wrote: > Edward, thanks for the reply, the tone has changed "if you don't like > CentOS Stream well, you know pay Red Hat". > "If you are using CentOS Linux 8 in a production environment, and are > concerned that CentOS Stream will not meet your needs, we encourage you to > contact Red Hat about options." > > source: https://blog.centos.org/2020/12/future-is-centos-stream/ Again, please see https://www.redhat.com/en/blog/faq-centos-stream-updates#Q10 The other options being addressed are not all "pay Red Hat". -- Matthew Miller Fedora Project Leader ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Finding which repository files provide required libraries
On Sun, Dec 20, 2020 at 07:00:04PM -0500, H wrote: > I did download dnf for the script. Am I correct in assuming this > functionality is not available with yum or rpm? yum-utils includes a separate `repoquery` command which is similar. -- Matthew Miller Fedora Project Leader ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] question centos stream 8 applying updates
On Sun, Dec 20, 2020 at 10:43:25AM -0300, Sergio Belkin wrote: > I feel up to now the predominant tone of communications both fron CentOS > and RH is as if CentOS **professional** users were stealing something to > RH... Can you point me to where you are seeing this tone in Red Hat and CentOS communications? Because what I see is basically the opposite: Red Hat and CentOS saying that's not the motivation at all. -- Matthew Miller Fedora Project Leader ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] CentOS 8 future
On Fri, Dec 18, 2020 at 03:20:30PM -0500, Joshua Kramer wrote: > 2027 + 1". Or maybe it's even RHEL 10 by that point. So maybe long > term updates won't go through the CentOS Streams process. Right, as the plan exists right now, long term updates (after five years) won't go through CentOS Stream. -- Matthew Miller Fedora Project Leader ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] CentOS 8 future
On Fri, Dec 18, 2020 at 10:36:12AM -0600, Christopher Wensink wrote: > You have been involved in CentOS for a long time. Would you mind > explaining the structure here. Do you work for Red hat full time on > the CentOS team? How many people are on that Team that were working > on CentOS? Is CentOS structured as a non-profit company with staff > just working on development of this distribution or is this just a > group of independent developers working on the same project? How > many people are working on active development of on the Red hat team > / CentOS Organization (if any)? Johnny can answer this too (and I'll let him cover the specifics about his own employment) but since I'm here: Like Fedora, there is no formal legal structure around CentOS as a project. "A group of developers and stakeholders" is a reasonable description. Red Hat is the primary sponsor of both projects, and holds the trademarks and other intellectual property — and takes most legal responsibility and risk. Red Hat also funds engineering, hardware, and a community budget. There is no dedicated CentOS team at Red Hat, just as there is no dedicated Fedora team. There are two highly-relevant teams, though. The first is Community Platform Engineering, which serves infrastructure and build tooling for both projects. Second is the Open Source Program Office, which has a team of community managers and leaders. (Rich Bowen and Marie Nordin fit in there.) Others are employeed other places — Ben Cotton, who serves as Program Manager for both Fedora and CentOS Stream — comes to us from the program management office. There is no one at Red Hat whose individual job is "develop Fedora". Instead, like non-RH community members, lots of different people across Red Hat engineering have "maintain my package in Fedora" as part of their job, or "work on the Fedora Workstation as a whole". Those people are usually also responsible for something similar in RHEL. This is true for RDO for OpenStack or OKD for OpenShift, too. And I'd have to check for sure but I assume it is also the case for AWX for Ansible. So, CentOS Linux is something kind of an aberration, because RH was paying people in the CPE team to spend their time on package builds, even though they weren't building those packages for RHEL. That's the thing Red Hat wants to stop doing. With Stream, packages will be actually built by the engineers who are building them for RHEL. People working on CentOS Stream _project_ engineering will be more like the way CPE works for Fedora: on infrastructure and services around that. As I understand it, this was something like 2-3 full-time equivalent positions just doing repackaging and associated work. I don't know the precise number. That might not seem like a lot, but if you've ever scrambled for req's for a project, you know it's a big deal. Red Hat's RHEL organization does not actually have a lot of extra fat to spare. But there is a lot of work that needs to be done to make the CentOS Stream infrastructure. So, like I've said before, the given explanation of "we want to actually focus resources" makes total sense to me as an important driver. Instead of doing what is essentially duplicative work, people paid to work on CentOS specifically can act as catalysts, and the hundreds of people in the RHEL organization who previously didn't look at CentOS at all are now CentOS developers directly. -- Matthew Miller Fedora Project Leader ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] CentOS 8 future
On Fri, Dec 18, 2020 at 08:12:26AM -0500, Konstantin Boyandin via CentOS wrote: > >> It's purely a developer's distro. > > Has Chris Wright ever recommended CentOS for any purpose other than > > development and testing? > Will a Red Hat CTO, in his right mind, ever recommend a free clone of > RHEL for any purpose other than development and testing? Right... he's not "lying", he just has a different audience. Red Hat has definitely never ever said in any official way that CentOS Linux is acceptable for production uses. And that's not going to change with CentOS Stream. You should see people's heads spin around like a scene from a horror movie when I suggest that people actually do run Fedora operating systems in production! -- Matthew Miller Fedora Project Leader ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Questions about Stream
On Thu, Dec 17, 2020 at 03:26:50PM +0300, Andrey wrote: > Consider the scenario: a bug or security issue found in both Stream > and current RHEL. It was fixed in RHEL in a few days. How fast it > will be fixed in Stream? Obviously, it needs some time to port the > fix to newer version of package. Days or months? I think you're pre-supposing that many packages in Stream will be ahead of RHEL. That's not the case. In most situations here, the package version in Stream will be identical to the one in RHEL. In cases where Stream is ahead, in some cases the security fix will be include moving the RHEL package ahead as well to match. In cases where that's too big of a change, the Stream package will still need to be updated so that a regression doesn't happen in the next RHEL minor. -- Matthew Miller Fedora Project Leader ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] What about the AltArch repositories? (+ some experiments with aarch64 on Raspberry Pi)
On Wed, Dec 16, 2020 at 09:50:43AM +0100, Mathieu Baudier wrote: > I guess that all these "side projects" (and SIGs, etc.) will disappear as > well, won't they? The FAQ on this isn't super-helpful, unfortunately (https://www.redhat.com/en/blog/faq-centos-stream-updates#Q7) That said, I don't see why these things couldn't continue based on Stream. -- Matthew Miller Fedora Project Leader ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] What are the differences between CentOS Linux and CentOS Stream?
On Tue, Dec 15, 2020 at 06:21:17PM +, Phil Perry wrote: > >thanks to bring this up - this is a big issue. How could we > >communicate this? Bugzilla? Anyone listing here? > > Here you go: > > https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1908047 > > At the moment the only way we have to feed back issues is to file > bugs against Stream (which is actually under RHEL8 on bugzilla) as > it is not currently possible to submit fixes. Thanks for filing that. I notice that Josh moved it to the "distribution" component rather than DNF -- that makes sense because it's not really an issue with the DNF package itself. The CentOS team tells me that this is a good place to file anything similar that comes up. -- Matthew Miller Fedora Project Leader ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] CentOS 8 future
On Tue, Dec 15, 2020 at 11:24:03AM -0600, Tom Bishop wrote: > I know you and other RHEL folks keep saying this about cashing out etc, but > they could have kept stream and Centos stable at the same time but chose > not to. Ya know, if it walks like a duck and quacks as a duck...who knows > maybe this goes down as one of the best decisions ever for RH but I think > its going to hurt them in more ways then they ever thought about. As I've also said before, I have no special insight into how RH and the CentOS board came to this timeline, but I _am_ inclined to believe that the motivation is the one that they give: they want to focus attention and resources. Look at CloudLinux saying that they plan to invest a million dollars a year into doing their rebuild. It's easy to _say_ "Red Hat could easily have done both". -- Matthew Miller Fedora Project Leader ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] What are the differences between CentOS Linux and CentOS Stream?
On Tue, Dec 15, 2020 at 05:09:39PM +, Bernstein, Noam CIV USN NRL (6393) Washington DC (USA) via CentOS wrote: > > 3. 'dnf downgrade foo' doesn't work as only latest/one copy of each package > > in Stream repository so no opportunity to downgrade/roll back broken > > packages. > Really? I hadn't appreciated that. How does one the contribute back to > RH/the community by checking at what point something broke? I don't know the answer here but it's a good point to raise. In Fedora, we don't keep all updates on our mirrors either, but we _do_ make them accessible forever from our build system (https://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/), and there's a command-line tool for easily pulling the packages from a build. -- Matthew Miller Fedora Project Leader ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] What are the differences between CentOS Linux and CentOS Stream?
On Tue, Dec 15, 2020 at 11:29:51PM +0800, Turritopsis Dohrnii Teo En Ming wrote: > Good day from Singapore, > What are the differences between CentOS Linux and CentOS Stream? CentOS Linux rebuilds packages after they are available from Red Hat as errata or as minor release updates. CentOS Stream will have updates approved for future RHEL minor releases shipped as soon as they meet the criteria. > At the moment, I only know that CentOS 8 support will end on 31 December > 2021 while Red Hat Inc will shift its focus to CentOS Stream. Yes. > Is CentOS Stream going to be very similar to Fedora Linux, shipping with > the latest Linux Kernel like 5.10.1? No. It is going to be very similar to Red Hat Enterprise Linux, shipping with kernel builds approved to ship in RHEL. If you want a faster-moving kernel, Fedora CoreOS or Fedora Server might be a good choice for you. > I am looking forward to hearing from you. Also see more at * https://blog.centos.org/2020/12/centos-stream-is-continuous-delivery/ * https://blog.centos.org/2020/12/how-rhel-is-made/ -- Matthew Miller Fedora Project Leader ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] CentOS 8 future
On Tue, Dec 15, 2020 at 01:48:21AM -0700, R C wrote: > I think that Centos, being that close to RHEL, should have had a > licensing scheme for personal use, small business use, just to make > things 'fair'. So, again, please stay tuned. Not for licensing schemes for CentOS, but for programs for these use cases for RHEL. See https://www.redhat.com/en/blog/faq-centos-stream-updates#Q10 and please really do mail centos-questi...@redhat.com with your use cases. This is answered by humans designing these programs, not by sales. > I don't think their (IBM/RHEL) course is going to change though, > redhat going "commercial" has been going on for a decade and a half > or so, and it looks like initial investors have a desire > cashing/selling out at this point. I don't think there will be a course change either, but for different reasons. The motivation isn't "cashing/selling out". It's... actually the stated motivation https://www.redhat.com/en/blog/faq-centos-stream-updates#Q2 -- Matthew Miller Fedora Project Leader ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] The conclusio: CentOS is dead
On Fri, Dec 11, 2020 at 07:50:00PM +0100, Walter H. wrote: > it is called "rolling release" and no one gave officially a > statement to the question I asked, It should not have been called a rolling release. It is not a rolling release in the sense that many Linux distributions use it. > if it is meant like that of Win10 ... I don't know what that means. No. It will not be like Win 10 in pretty much every way. > a beta release is not the same that many expect as a stable system, > as they are used to have with CentOS; It is not a beta release. > you should think of renaming CentOS to something different, because > with Enterprise this CentOS Stream has nothing in common; Maybe. But I think it has more in common than you think > and does Redhat really expect everone - even private people - afford > a RHEL subscription¹ just to have a stable system? No. In many cases, CentOS Stream will provide a stable system for the needs of individuals. In many other cases, upcoming low- and no-cost RHEL programs will address many of these needs. As an individual, you can already get RHEL with no cost through the Developer Program, although it isn't as easy as it could be and usage is limited. The upcoming plans are intended to address those problems. It's unfortunate that the timing is such that those aren't anything but future promises at this point, but they are coming. See https://www.redhat.com/en/blog/faq-centos-stream-updates#Q10 and email centos-questi...@redhat.com with your specific needs. That address goes to real people who are working on these programs, not sales or anything like that. -- Matthew Miller Fedora Project Leader ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] question centos stream 8 applying updates
On Fri, Dec 11, 2020 at 10:19:56AM -0800, Gordon Messmer wrote: > On 12/10/20 2:53 PM, edward via CentOS wrote: > >after reading some info on centos stream is a rolling release. > >i'm wondering applying > > It's not a "rolling release" in the most commonly used sense. There > just isn't a minor number for releases. CentOS Stream 8 will always > be CentOS Stream 8, and never 8.1 or 8.2, etc. Just one ten-year > long release. At any given point in time, a fully updated system > should be backward-compatible with any applications that have run > earlier in the release cycle. Yeah, the words "rolling release" ended up in the announcement without anyone really catching that it's going to have strong implications of something that _wasn't_ meant. It's hard to make an announcement like this without having some phrasing that ends up causing confusion of some sort. This one is definitely costing us in extra confusion, but please believe that there's no hidden messaging here. We're just all trying to figure out how to best communicate the concepts. I hope the blog posts from Stef and Brendan on the CentOS blog today help clear things up! https://blog.centos.org/2020/12/centos-stream-is-continuous-delivery/ https://blog.centos.org/2020/12/how-rhel-is-made/ -- Matthew Miller Fedora Project Leader ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Moving to CentOS 8 Stream
On Fri, Dec 11, 2020 at 09:39:54AM -0800, Japheth Cleaver wrote: > It would be nice to have updates from RedHat on where it's > positioning UBI then. Previously it had directly pointed to specific > target use-cases, which limit its usefulness for even some pretty > simple cases outside that baliwick. Example: > https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1758358#c3 I am not part of the decision-making chain for this (personally, I would have swung bigger!) but I respect the people who are, and as I understand it, the intention is to demonstrate success in those constrained use-cases and grow carefully from there (that's what Scott says in that bug, and I'm sure he's not making it up). I think probably these "simple outside-the-baliwick" cases are good to send to the centos-questi...@redhat.com address, or to bug Scott about specifically with more details of the use case. That bug has "it may be useful for some users" but if you can expand that with several user stories it might be more compelling. -- Matthew Millermat...@mattdm.org <http://mattdm.org/> Fedora Project Leader mat...@fedoraproject.org <http://fedoraproject.org/> ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] 8-stream dnf overly verbose
On Fri, Dec 11, 2020 at 11:19:16AM -0500, Matthew Miller wrote: > > > > I've filed a bug: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1906839 > > > > on CentOS Stream distribution. > > Some minutes ago I was also not able to access the bug. Now I'm able. So > > someone has changed the accessibility. > Looks like it was originally inadvertently filed as a private bug. That > option, of course, is there for things which might actually be sensitive. I > see Brian Stinson cleared that when he took ownership of the issue. Also, WOAH. I just noticed that CentOS Stream bugs are to be filed as _actual versions of RHEL 8 and RHEL 9_. That's amazing. -- Matthew Miller Fedora Project Leader ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] 8-stream dnf overly verbose
On Fri, Dec 11, 2020 at 05:15:49PM +0100, Gianluca Cecchi wrote: > > > I've filed a bug: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1906839 > > > on CentOS Stream distribution. > Some minutes ago I was also not able to access the bug. Now I'm able. So > someone has changed the accessibility. Looks like it was originally inadvertently filed as a private bug. That option, of course, is there for things which might actually be sensitive. I see Brian Stinson cleared that when he took ownership of the issue. -- Matthew Miller Fedora Project Leader ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] 8-stream dnf overly verbose
On Fri, Dec 11, 2020 at 03:53:04PM +, Randal, Phil wrote: > Funnily enough mere mortals like me aren't allowed to view that bug report. Are you sure? I am able to see it without logging in. > I've filed a bug: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1906839 > on CentOS Stream distribution. -- Matthew Miller Fedora Project Leader ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Moving to CentOS 8 Stream
On Fri, Dec 11, 2020 at 07:13:19AM -0700, James Szinger wrote: > Except that there are no container images available for Stream. :( There certainly will be. Also for container use cases, you might want to consider UBI, which is literal RHEL binaries, and which becomes supported when run on supported RHEL systems but is free to run anywhere. -- Matthew Miller Fedora Project Leader ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] I'm looking forward to the future of CentOS Stream
On Fri, Dec 11, 2020 at 12:23:59AM -0800, Gordon Messmer wrote: > >This is not a production operating system." > Does he say that CentOS is a production operating system? > > As far as I know, Red Hat has never endorsed running CentOS in > production, so I don't understand why it's significant that they > also don't endorse running CentOS Stream in production. Yeah, I too think this is important context. I don't think you'll ever find anyone from the business side ever even suggesting that they think CentOS Linux, the rebuild, was *ever* something Red Hat recommended to run in production. -- Matthew Miller Fedora Project Leader ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] CentOS 8 Stream: The Good, The Bad, The Ugly
On Thu, Dec 10, 2020 at 02:47:09PM -0300, Victor Pereira wrote: > My first impression when I read the news was that some MBA had made the > decision and I decided to find out if there were Red Hat developers > Unemployed ... :-), which would give me light that it was a decision made > at the point of excel spreadsheets. Yeah -- no one is unemployed. There really are not a lot of people working on CentOS Stream or the rebuild, all told, and the part about wanting to refocus all of the energy on Stream to make it successful is 100% true. -- Matthew Miller Fedora Project Leader ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] CentOS Stream from bottom works, what is this?
On Thu, Dec 10, 2020 at 12:11:51PM -0500, Phelps, Matthew wrote: > > Yeah, I have some sysadmin friends already working on exactly this for > > their deployment in a large-scale academic setting. > > > Do you not see the huge irony here? > Why should a sysadmin have to do this? > We shouldn't. Well, I don't think you have to. But it's open source and it's cool that you *can* do things like this if you want to. -- Matthew Miller Fedora Project Leader ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] CentOS Stream from bottom works, what is this?
On Thu, Dec 10, 2020 at 05:02:17PM +, Bernstein, Noam CIV USN NRL (6393) Washington DC (USA) via CentOS wrote: > That's my understanding, iff you automatically install all CentOS stream > updates the moment they become available. But I still don't see why nearly > no one is going for the idea that there be some way (ideally automated) to > tag all the packages at the point of the RedHat release, and install only > those from Stream once the RHEL release is ready? Yeah, I have some sysadmin friends already working on exactly this for their deployment in a large-scale academic setting. -- Matthew Miller Fedora Project Leader ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] CentOS Stream from bottom works, what is this?
On Thu, Dec 10, 2020 at 11:50:00AM -0500, m...@tdiehl.org wrote: > So if I understand this correctly, centos8 + will basically be a rolling > release and we will never know what we are really running. Is this > correct? No, this is not the case. There will be continuous updates, but all of these updates are ones that are planned to go into a RHEL minor release, with all of the normal things that will imply. As Brendan said, .y stream development is really not all that exciting. > To put it another way all of the stability we are used to will be gone and > in order to stay up to date with stream I could potentially need to reboot > machines daily depending on what packages $REDHAT developer decides to > work on that day. I mean, if there are updates you want that day, sure? -- Matthew Miller Fedora Project Leader ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] [CentOS-devel] https://blog.centos.org/2020/12/future-is-centos-stream/
On Wed, Dec 09, 2020 at 01:01:28PM -0600, Christopher Wensink wrote: > Understanding the flow of packages, is it a fair comparison to say > that moving forward: > Fedora packages could be considered alpha/beta releases of apps > Centos/Stream could be considered beta / Pre-release / Release > candidates of packages / partially stable > RHEL official releases would be considered final release / stable I would say that everything is much higher quality than that. We release whole non-beta releases of just Fedora. But particularly, no, CentOS Stream isn't beta. Packages landing in Stream have already passed QA and gating. -- Matthew Miller Fedora Project Leader ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] dnf script to cherry pick updates and maintain RHEL compatibility
On Wed, Dec 09, 2020 at 07:02:03PM +, James Pearson wrote: > If there is going to be a no-cost RHEL that can be used in the same way as > CentOS is used now, then I think that would solve all the problems with > this CentOS Stream announcement ... and calm down things There's not going to be a no-cost RHEL that can be used in all of the cases where CentOS is used. But there will be options for a lot of cases. I want to be very careful that I'm not overpromising here because 1) I'm not in the business side of things so it isn't even something I can directly influence let alone my call and 2) I do know that it really isn't all worked out yet and won't be for a little bit. But, I do know that Red Hat actually cares about these users and use cases. -- Matthew Miller Fedora Project Leader ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] [CentOS-devel] https://blog.centos.org/2020/12/future-is-centos-stream/
On Wed, Dec 09, 2020 at 09:40:22AM +, J Martin Rushton via CentOS wrote: > And exactly the same applies to senior (or retired) admins on their > home computers. My main home machine runs about a dozen testbed > VMs, DHCP/DNS for the home network, Amanda, NFS and Samba for other > machines, ownCloud, Apache, Zotero and DokuWiki for the family. I > want a stable server under that lot, not a beta release. CentOS Stream will not be a "beta release". That's not how RHEL minor release development works. I personally think that it's going to be stellar for your exact use case. -- Matthew Miller Fedora Project Leader ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] dnf script to cherry pick updates and maintain RHEL compatibility
On Wed, Dec 09, 2020 at 12:33:57PM -0600, Tom Bishop wrote: > They would have saved a lot of bashing of teeth etc if they would have had > all of that ready at the same time so folks could assess where things fall, > right now all we have is RH folks saying something else is coming with no > details, most have kind of lost faith with what's been announced already, > poorly timed IMHO. Yeah, I have no insight into why the timing is what it is. But it is, so here we are. From what I'm seeing going on inside Red Hat I think there will be a lot of faith-restoring things coming up in the next year. -- Matthew Miller Fedora Project Leader ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] https://blog.centos.org/2020/12/future-is-centos-stream/
On Wed, Dec 09, 2020 at 09:24:33AM +, Pete Biggs wrote: > What will be the incentive for vendors to participate? Sure you can > talk the corporate talk about opportunities and ecosystems, but the > bottom line is that it requires investment (at least in time) when they > could just continue supporting RHEL point releases, or possibly every > other point release. Oh, this one is easy. Because *this is how Red Hat is telling vendors to support RHEL point releases from now on*. I know it's easy to get lost in everything else, but this is a huge pivot in RHEL development focusing more directly on CentOS. (Although as I understand it there will also be cases where code supporting new hardware is embargoed until a release date, which complicates things in some cases. That doesn't change the overall new picture though.) -- Matthew Miller Fedora Project Leader ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] CentOS Stream from bottom works, what is this?
On Wed, Dec 09, 2020 at 06:26:22PM +, Bernstein, Noam CIV USN NRL (6393) Washington DC (USA) via CentOS wrote: > > Absolutely. The only path into RHEL minor releases that isn't through Stream > > is for CVEs and other embargoed changes. And those will go back into Stream > > as soon as they can. > Does that mean that it will always be possible to recreate the set of > final RHEL point release packages by cherry-picking from Stream? If so, > isn't that a solution (and, I'd argue, _the_ solution if there's some > officially supported way of grabbing that set)? There might be some complexity I'm not seeing, but offhand I don't see why not. -- Matthew Miller Fedora Project Leader ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] [CentOS-devel] https://blog.centos.org/2020/12/future-is-centos-stream/
On Wed, Dec 09, 2020 at 09:15:40AM +0200, Veli-Pekka Kestilä wrote: > >Is it possible that more regressions will get through than have before? > >Well, sure, some. But let's not pretend that even RHEL is ever > >regression-free. It's software, after all, and there are bugs and > >errata. I don't think that for most self-supported CentOS use, it will > >be particularly dangerous to switch to Stream at all. > It might or it might not. But you can't say to people in good faith > anymore that it will be as stable as the current RHEL release. Define stable. For most practical definitions of that and for most use cases, it absolutely will be. For some it won't be, but I think there will be few actual cases where it won't be _and_ CentOS Linux rather than RHEL _was_ acceptable. > I have recommended CentOS to my customers as way to get going and > also recommended getting the subscription for RHEL when possible > afterwards. I don't see why that would change. Or you may be able to get them started on RHEL in some new cases. -- Matthew Miller Fedora Project Leader ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] dnf script to cherry pick updates and maintain RHEL compatibility
On Wed, Dec 09, 2020 at 06:02:37PM +, James Pearson wrote: > why don't they just make RHEL available to all for 'free', and you just > pay for support if you need it - i.e. a bit like it is now, RHEL if you > pay, CentOS if you don't - I'm sure that would make everyone happy :-) Because RHEL's value proposition is not merely support, and the value of subscription goes way beyond that. Butt, that said: yes, this really is the direction things are going with expanded access to low-cost/no-cost RHEL. -- Matthew Miller Fedora Project Leader ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] CentOS Stream from bottom works, what is this?
On Wed, Dec 09, 2020 at 09:58:10AM -0600, Barry Brimer wrote: > If a bug were to make it into CentOS Stream, and identified before > RHEL 8.4 was released, would an updated/fixed package be produced > and placed into CentOS Stream? Absolutely. The only path into RHEL minor releases that isn't through Stream is for CVEs and other embargoed changes. And those will go back into Stream as soon as they can. > If a bug were to make it past CentOS Stream and into RHEL 8.4 and > the bug is then identified and fixed after the release of RHEL 8.4 > would an updated/fixed package be produced and placed into CentOS > Stream in the same timeframe or only if/when updated packages and > their dependencies were made/released into CentOS Stream for updated > features for RHEL 8.5? It might depend on the situation, but I would expect the fix to land quickly in Stream. > If the same happened in the previous question but was in a package > or set of packages that was being rebased in 8.5 would it work the > same way? Hmmm. I'm not sure I understand you. There won't be a dump of 8.5 packages into Stream at some point. They will be updated there as ready. -- Matthew Miller Fedora Project Leader ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] CentOS Stream from bottom works, what is this?
On Wed, Dec 09, 2020 at 04:03:42PM +, Laack, Andrea P wrote: > The companies that pay for RHEL licenses for production and use CentOS for > test will be left with a large problem. They will either need to purchase > double the number of RHEL licenses and switch to RHEL for testing or go to > another distribution. RHEL + 1 will not work for testing application > compatibility with patches. In the cases where RHEL + 0.1 (note not +1) won't work, I think it's incredibly likely that this will be covered by the expanded low- and no-cost RHEL offerings. Part of the buried lede here is that with more RHEL accessibility, a lot of the function that CentOS served for users will not be necessary anymore. > No company will want to pay double the amount they are currently paying > for RHEL licenses. This is not even addressing the cost and time it will > take to switch over all the test servers. Yeah, Red Hat knows this. Hence the above. If you have a specific case, please email the centos-questi...@redhat.com address -- that goes to the people designing the new programs, not to sales. -- Matthew Miller Fedora Project Leader ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] https://blog.centos.org/2020/12/future-is-centos-stream/
On Tue, Dec 08, 2020 at 11:42:01PM +, Pete Biggs wrote: > I too would be interested to know what happens to CentOS 8 Stream once > focus of RedHat moves to RHEL 9? The life cycle document says the last > release of RHEL8 will be 8.10, that's a five year road map (since point > releases seem to be every 6 months), so the point releases will end in > 2024, presumably the end of the point releases means the end of Stream > updates? Have these things been thought out that far ahead? As I understand it, the current plan is for there to be Stream 8 and Stream 9 in parallel. For one thing, once RH developers are all geared up for working in Stream 8, it'd be _extra_ work to pull that all back in-house. -- Matthew Miller Fedora Project Leader ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] [CentOS-devel] https://blog.centos.org/2020/12/future-is-centos-stream/
On Tue, Dec 08, 2020 at 11:28:58AM -0600, Johnny Hughes wrote: > > Am I the only one to perceive CentOS/RedHat team members responses as quite > > arrogant? > I am sorry you feel that way. I was trying to help. Red Hat has Yeah, um, if I'm coming across as arrogant, I apologize. I genuinely think this is overall a good thing, and I'm hoping some of y'all will see some of that. I realize my excitement might not be completely catching at first. But Johnny is easily in the running for "least arrogant person I know", and has demonstrated that consistantly for years and years, as anyone who has followed CentOS regularly will attest. So, c'mon, let's please not take this there. -- Matthew Miller Fedora Project Leader ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] https://blog.centos.org/2020/12/future-is-centos-stream/
On Tue, Dec 08, 2020 at 03:15:17PM +, Pete Biggs wrote: > Forgive a bit of cynicism ... Sure, some cynicism is absolutely warranted. It's a big change. > "If you want to keep using RHEL for free, you will have to put up with > making sure that our paying customers get better quality releases" I mean That's not the _worst_ deal I've ever heard. But actually it's better than you've stated, because the benefit to others happens even regardless of the paying customers -- others using CentOS Stream also benefit. And for that matter since many of fixes go upstream, users of open source in general. (In some ways, this is like: being a paying customer of RHEL also benefits other paying customers. And for that matter, those paying customers benefit all of the free users, and Fedora, and hundreds of upstreams.) > "CentOS will become the developer playground" This one is categorically not the case. Even Fedora isn't a developer playground. Everything landing in CentOS Stream is actually *planned* (with emphasis intentional) to go in a future RHEL release. Previously, all the development around RHEL releases was done in secret, in the Red Hat black box. Now it's out of the box and can be watched. There may be some launch pains, but I expect the average quality of an update hitting CentOS Stream to be very high. > > https://www.redhat.com/en/blog/centos-stream-building-innovative-future-enterprise-linux] > Red Hat's perspective is "CentOS is ours now; IBM have told us to make > sure it's pulling its weight or we aren't allowed to put any resources > into it" Of course, that link says nothing of the sort. It's easy to imagine IBM conspiracies, but the honest truth is that there's nothing to that. Now, I don't know everything, and it may be the case that IBM is secretly pulling all sorts of invisible strings and making Red Hat management dance, but I do know about *this* particular thing and IBM had nothing to do with it. -- Matthew Miller Fedora Project Leader ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] [CentOS-devel] https://blog.centos.org/2020/12/future-is-centos-stream/
On Tue, Dec 08, 2020 at 08:34:54AM -0600, Christopher Wensink wrote: > I agree this is shocking news. If we don't want to be beta testers > and want to continue to use a stable tested OS should we be moving > to RHEL servers? Is there a license-free RHEL server option that is > the recommended path from using CentOS? So: other than the developer subscription, not yet. But see this part of the FAQ -- https://www.redhat.com/en/blog/faq-centos-stream-updates#Q10: In the first half of 2021, we will be introducing low- or no-cost programs for a variety of use cases, including options for open source projects and communities, partner ecosystems and an expansion of the use cases of the Red Hat Enterprise Linux Developer subscription to better serve the needs of systems administrators and partner developers. We’ll share more details on these initiatives as they become available. I'm not part of any of the decisions around that, but I know for sure that work is in progress and it's not just meant to sound nice. I don't know if any of these will meet your use cases, but I think they will for a lot of people here. For others, note that the plan is for CentOS Stream to target upcoming RHEL minor releases. Between any two six months, the change delta should be just the same as it is in CentOS Linux now. It's not like it's going to become Fedora Rawhide. Everything going into it is intended to land in RHEL on a short timescale. It's not a beta or a playground for broken code. Is it possible that more regressions will get through than have before? Well, sure, some. But let's not pretend that even RHEL is ever regression-free. It's software, after all, and there are bugs and errata. I don't think that for most self-supported CentOS use, it will be particularly dangerous to switch to Stream at all. And if your use case isn't covered by one of the upcoming low- and no-cost programs, and you can't take the risk or the possible increased change management overhead, or for some other reason... well, is it _really_ so bad for companies to pay for RHEL? (I like my family to be able to eat, so I'm a bit biased but all of this has to come from something.) -- Matthew Miller Fedora Project Leader ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] CentOS 8 future
On Tue, Dec 08, 2020 at 12:44:36PM -0600, Robert G. (Doc) Savage via CentOS wrote: > > CentOS 8's future is not looking bright. Recently deployed CentOS8 on my > > production workload and now hearing this. What do other folks think > > about this? > Speaking only for myself, I am ready to give up on CentOS (and Red Hat) > entirely. Fedora meets all my clients' needs with none of the chaos. I definitely appreciate the vote of confidence in Fedora! You're not alone in using Fedora in a lot of serious ways. However, I really encourage everyone to give this a chance. This is (post-Fedora) RHEL development opening up in a new way, and CentOS is central to it. That's a good place to be! -- Matthew Miller Fedora Project Leader ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Run as root on reboot
On Wed, Oct 28, 2020 at 04:34:32PM -0700, david wrote: > During initial setup, I'd like to avoid the manual actions of [...] > Security is not a concern here. And I don't want to invoke > high-powered functions like "jumpstart". Can you explain the use case a little more here? It may actually _really_ be worth your time to learn about kickstart -- it's highly powerful, but not really "high-powered" in a difficultly sense. -- Matthew Miller Fedora Project Leader ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] NetworkManager on servers
On Thu, Feb 13, 2020 at 05:53:41PM +0100, Nicolas Kovacs wrote: > I just came to the same conclusion. So it looks like I'll have to > catch up and do some RTFM on NetworkManager, FirewallD (which I've > replaced by a handcrafted iptables script) and Chrony (replaced by > ntpd). Whatever your views on the first two, I strongly discourage the latter unless you have very specific functionality beyond Chrony's capability. The original ntpd has a very large attack surface. Plus Chrony has some nice additional features. Read more about Chrony here: https://opensource.com/article/18/12/manage-ntp-chrony -- Matthew Miller Fedora Project Leader ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] HW update. Fedora 30 to Centos?
On Thu, Oct 24, 2019 at 03:53:49PM +0100, Dave Pawson wrote:
> Not all that bothered about being 'up to the minute', and after
> 20+ Fedora installs it does get to be a drag...
You should be just fine with CentOS for most cases. Check out the new Fedora
Toolbox command ('toolbox') — this makes it super-easy to launch and
maintain "pet" containers using podman, and you could use this to provide a
Fedora working environment for when you need newer stuff. (Or conversely
people running a Fedora OS can do the opposite with a CentOS container.)
One thing I'm curious about, though -- you mention installs getting to be a
drag. Have you tried the update process in the last few releases? It's
basically like applying a big set of updates, with no reinstall required.
--
Matthew Miller
Fedora Project Leader
___
CentOS mailing list
CentOS@centos.org
https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] CentOS 8: what changed (regular UNIX admin commands)?
On Tue, Oct 22, 2019 at 12:11:04PM -0600, David G. Miller wrote: > "ip" should be used instead. Likewise for using dnf instead of yum, > systemctl instead of service, firewallcmd instead of iptables, etc. > I wonder how many shell scripts there are "out there" that folks > have written or accumulated over the years and which now need to be > updated before deprecated becomes no longer available? Or, like With the case of DNF and Yum, the RHEL team put in considerable work into making sure that the new DNF-based 'yum' command is a drop-in replacement for the vast majority of those scripts. -- Matthew Miller Fedora Project Leader ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Question about CentOS Stream OS
On Sat, Oct 05, 2019 at 03:01:43PM +0100, Pete Biggs wrote: > In the future new features and upgrades will appear in Stream as a sort > of rolling release and it will form the basis of future RHEL releases > (and subsequently CentOS releases). It will also be the place for > community input into RHEL/CentOS. Think of it as halfway between the > cutting edge Fedora and the stable RHEL releases. Sometimes the easiest explanation is too easy. :) CentOS Stream won't be getting new releases of software that isn't intended to go into a RHEL minor release (like 8.2). It'll just be getting those changes sooner (and with the possibility of updates, revisions, and even rollbacks before the RHEL minor release). It will be changing daily, so it's less stable in that sense, but the net change over six months will be the same as what can be expected in a RHEL minor update, and I don't think the policies for that are changing. That's CentOS Stream, at least. But I think there's room for a lot more CentOS/Fedora collaboration, where for example we use bits from CentOS Stream to provide longer lifecycle for some packages, or use bits from the Fedora collection — possibly through Fedora EPEL — to provide faster alternatives for RHEL and the CentOS traditional rebuild. -- Matthew Miller Fedora Project Leader ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] CentOS 8 network-scripts
On Thu, Oct 03, 2019 at 02:42:54PM -0400, Jerry Geis wrote: > I have need to use the old network-scripts and not NetworkManager. > I did yum install network-scripts, I have ifcfg-eth0 set for ONBOOT=yes > but it is not starting on boot. > What have I missed ? systemctl status network -- Matthew Miller Fedora Project Leader ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Changing UID numbers
On Thu, Feb 14, 2019 at 11:04:11AM -0600, Bill Gee wrote: > I think I can do this in two steps. > 0) backup, backup, backup! This is already running and you've tested the restore process, right? > 1) On the server - use "find" to find all files owned by UID=500. Chown > them to UID=1000. Repeat for gid=500. Yes. > 2) Tricky - On the workstation, boot to non-gui. Login as root. Repeat the > same two "find" commands as on the server. Edit the /etc/passwd and > /etc/group files to show the new UID and GID numbers. Yes. Although order does not matter -- personally I'd make the account change first. Also, you can use `usermod -u` and `usermod -g` (possibly both at once) and this will correctly change ownership of all files in the home directory (but not outside of that). > What does this do to the shadow files? Are there other places I need to > look for the UID and GID numbers? shadow (and gshadow) are name based, so shouldn't be a problem. You may need to change some spool files in /var in addition to in /home. Nothing else *should* be using the numeric values. (Possibly some tar files?) -- Matthew Miller Fedora Project Leader ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Upstream and downstream (was Re: What are the differences between systemd and non-systemd Linux distros?)
On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 05:52:12PM -0700, Japheth Cleaver wrote: > The wider EL community is trapped between a rock and a hard place > somewhat. If you try to direct Fedora into the needs of EL users, > you stand a good chance of getting told to pound stand, and that EL > is getting in the way of bleeding-edge progress. Traditionally, For what it's worth (I hope something!) I think this is an outdated fear or assumption. Before Fedora.next, the "default user" for Fedora was assumed to be an indiviual desktop user, and the overall Fedora OS offering meant to be one-size-fits-all but modeled to that user. That wasn't working, partly for the reason you identify here. Nonetheless, something like 20% of Fedora usage is on servers, and a lot of people work with Fedora in parallel with a Enterprise Linux deployment. We needed to find a place for those users to have a voice. So, Fedora Server was explicitly chartered as not just for its own sake (although we intend to make that true as well) but also the intentional upstream for downstream enterprise Linux consumers. That doesn't mean that every change there goes into RHEL, or is RH blessed or even Red Hat aligned — but the needs of EL users are *definitely* taken into account. > wider EL-using community. Does it want direct feedback in the form > of tickets? Should people form SIGs? Obviously RHEL7 is not changing > init systems, but where should one talk about the future? If this is your interest, I'd really encourage you to get more involved in Fedora Server. We could use your input. -- Matthew Miller Fedora Project Leader ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] rpm spec version : higher version is seen as older
On Wed, May 23, 2018 at 08:07:52PM +0300, Adrian Sevcenco wrote: > Hi! I have a very puzzling problem : > one rpm with version 1.2.5 and one with 1.3.1 (spec file does not have > Epoch defined) > > trying to install i get this : > [root@storage02 aliprod]# rpm -Uvh > xrootd-alicetokenacc-1.3.1-1.el6.x86_64.rpm > Preparing...### > [100%] > package xrootd-alicetokenacc-1:1.2.5-1.el6.x86_64 (which is > newer than xrootd-alicetokenacc-1.3.1-1.el6.x86_64) is already installed Yeah, "has epoch" is always newer than "doesn't have epoch". You can see from the "1:" in 1:1.2.5 that that package *does* have Epoch defined. > any idea why this could happen? > AFAIK the solution would be the introduction of "Epoch: 1" but i seen > that this is usually acceptable only as last resort.. Looks like you're *already* in that state. I guess you can think of this as an example of why it's a last resort, because once done once, you're stuck. But now, there you are. -- Matthew Miller <mat...@fedoraproject.org> Fedora Project Leader ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Any alternatives for the horrible reposync
On Tue, Feb 27, 2018 at 12:11:29PM +0100, Dennis Jacobfeuerborn wrote: > I'm currently trying to mirror a couple of yum repositories and the only > tool that seems to be available for this is reposync. > Unfortunately reposync for some inexplicable reason seems to use the yum > config of the local system as a basis for its work which makes no sense > and creates all kinds of problems where cache directories and metadata > gets mixed up. > Are there any alternatives? Some repos support rsync but not all of them > so I'm looking for something that works for all repos. You might try "dnf reposync". -- Matthew Miller <mat...@fedoraproject.org> Fedora Project Leader ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] /lib/firmware/microcode.dat update on CentOS 6
On Thu, Jan 18, 2018 at 11:45:42AM -0500, Pete Geenhuizen wrote: > >>Do we update the microcode now or do we wait until the latest > >>microcode_ctl rpm is available and then tackle this issue? > >Check with your hardware vendor for BIOS/EFI firmware updates. Apply > >those. > > > Thanks for the reply, but you missed what I was asking. I've > already downloaded the appropriate files from the links that Johnny > provided in a previous posting. > My question is, do we wait until the latest microcode_ctl rpm is > installed or do it now? My concern is that if I do it now the new > rpm might undo what I've done. It does not matter. The microcode_ctl package contains CPU firmware that is loaded at by the kernel early in the boot process if it's newer than the one provided by the system firmware/BIOS. It is never permanently stored in NVRAM or anything — it's loaded at each boot. You should get a BIOS/EFI firmware update from your hardware vendor which includes updated microcode. Then, you'll get the IBRS-capable microcode at boot, every boot. This makes microcode_ctl moot. Read more about this here: https://access.redhat.com/solutions/3315431 -- Matthew Miller <mat...@fedoraproject.org> Fedora Project Leader ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] /lib/firmware/microcode.dat update on CentOS 6
On Thu, Jan 18, 2018 at 11:01:18AM -0500, Pete Geenhuizen wrote: > Do we update the microcode now or do we wait until the latest > microcode_ctl rpm is available and then tackle this issue? Check with your hardware vendor for BIOS/EFI firmware updates. Apply those. -- Matthew Miller <mat...@fedoraproject.org> Fedora Project Leader ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] How to encourage maintainers to update their software
On Sat, Oct 28, 2017 at 12:36:33PM -0600, Frank Cox wrote: > I don't want to tear my whole computer down and upgrade my operating > system every six months, and I don't want to deal with the > bleeding-edge stuff that might or might not work when it affects > something like network connectivity or whether I actually get a > picture on the screen when I boot up my computer. But for userland > programs, why not run the latest version of Libreoffice or Cool > Reader if it's easy to compile them and I can get a few new features > out of it? This is one of the reasons I'm in favor of bringing Flatpak to Fedora (and presumably also eventually to CentOS). We have a project to automatically convert Fedora packages to Flatpaks, which you could then run on a CentOS base. That's really just an approach for desktop apps, though. Fedora Modularity aims to solve this for other software stacks, allowing you to keep longer-lived streams for the stuff you don't want to change, and faster streams for the stuff you do want different. All that said, I do also feel *some* need to mention that Fedora gives you a 13-month lifecycle, not six months. And, in most cases, you can upgrade in under half an hour without no fuss. -- Matthew Miller <mat...@fedoraproject.org> Fedora Project Leader ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
[CentOS] Flatpak [was Re: Fedora bugs and EOL [was Re: CentOS users: please try and provide feedback on Fedora Boltron]]
On Fri, Aug 04, 2017 at 02:10:31PM +0200, Leon Fauster wrote: > > I think what you're looking for here is Flatpak. > Just a off-topic question (maybe in the future of EL less off-topic); > Does the concept of flatpak make updates in general more complicated > (e.g. security issues in libraries)? The centralized concept of "shared > libraries" does support by design the elimination of issues with "one" > update. The flatpak approach implies that "every" flatpak packaged > software must be updated individually, right? I hope that i got it right? Partly. Flatpak supports the concept of runtimes, which are shared, so updates to those will be shared. Additionally, since it uses os-tree, updates can be small and fast and are de-duplicated on disk. If you're installing Flatpaks from arbitrary sources, of course, you need to make sure that you trust each provider. In Fedora, our plan is to automatically generate Flatpaks from RPMs, and when those RPMs are updated they will automatically cascade through the build and update system. -- Matthew Miller <mat...@fedoraproject.org> Fedora Project Leader ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Fedora bugs and EOL [was Re: CentOS users: please try and provide feedback on Fedora] Boltron
On Thu, Aug 03, 2017 at 03:25:36PM +0200, hw wrote: > >In all honesty, I wouldn't want Libreoffice running in a container > >and I can't imagine why you'd want an xterm in its own container. > It was only an example. The point of doing that is to use different versions > of > xterm and of emacs as come by default. How else would I do that when > non-default > versions of packages require their own container each? I think what you're looking for here is Flatpak. -- Matthew Miller <mat...@fedoraproject.org> Fedora Project Leader ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Fedora bugs and EOL [was Re: CentOS users: please try and provide feedback on Fedora] Boltron
On Thu, Aug 03, 2017 at 02:36:33PM +0200, hw wrote: > >Trolling aside (fascist? really?), I've gotten valuable feedback from > >several people which I really appreciate. I intend to continue to > >engage with the CentOS community, because when we work on big changes > >in Fedora which may come to our downstream distributions, it's really > >useful to have constructive feedback from serious users of those > >distributions. > Yes, really, and it was my main reason to deprecate Fedora. I?m not > surprised that you like to get the feedback you want to hear. I wanted feedback *on the thing I was asking for feedback about*. I don't mind other feedback in general, whether negative or positive, but it is off-topic for *this* list. -- Matthew Miller <mat...@fedoraproject.org> Fedora Project Leader ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Fedora bugs and EOL [was Re: CentOS users: please try and provide feedback on Fedora] Boltron
On Wed, Aug 02, 2017 at 03:40:42PM +0200, hw wrote: > >No, this isn't it it all. Modules are sets of packages which the > >distribution creators have selected to work together; you don't compose > >modules as an end-user. > > Then maybe my understanding of packages and/or modules is wrong. > What is considered a module? What if I replace, for example, > apache N with apache N+2: Will that also replace the installed > version of php with another one if the installed version doesn?t > work with apache N+2? The current design doesn't prioritize parallel installation of different streams of the same module. We expect to use containers to address that problem. Whether we explicitly block parallel install or only do so when there is an active conflict is an open question. (See the walkthrough.) In your example, if PHP is part of a "LAMP Stack" module, it's likely that it will be replaced with the matching version. But, modules can include other modules, so it may be that "LAMP Stack" is actually a _module stack_, including separate PHP and Apache modules. In that case, we could have different LAMP Stack streams with different combinations of PHP and Apache. I think this situation is in fact particularly likely. So, in your scenario, you'd start with a LAMP Stack stream which might include Apache HTTPD 2.4, PHP 5.6, and MariaDB 5.5 as a bundle. If you decide to switch to a newer HTTPD, you could choose either one with Apache HTTPD 2.6, PHP 5.6, and MariaDB 5.5 *or* one with Apache HTTPD 2.6, PHP 7.1, and MariaDB 10.3. This seems like it could become a combinatorial maintenance nightmare, but the idea is that the developers will just concentrate on their individual packages and module definitions, and automated testing will validate which combinations work (and then we can decide which combinations are supported, because working and supported are not necessarily the same thing). > >>Are you sure that all the added complexity and implicitly giving up a > >>stable platform by providing a mess of package versions is worth it? > >This is a false dichotomy. We will be providing a stable platform as > >the Base Runtime module. > What if apache N+2 doesn?t work with stdlibc++ N? Will the library > and all that depends on it be replaced when I install apache N+2? > Wouldn?t that change the platform? We'd have several options: * Include a compat lib in the Apache module * Add a compat lib to the base next to the existing one (as a fully-backwards-compatible update to the base) * Or, simply say that the Apache N+2 stream requires a certain minimum base. > >I can't speak to Red Hat plans or Red Hat fixes. In Fedora, we might > >have, say, squid 3.5, squid 4.0, and squid 5 streams (stable, beta, and > >devel) all maintained at the same time. > > That reminds me of Debian stable, testing and unstable. I guess you > could say they are different platforms, and though you can install > squid unstable from unstable on stable, you can not have squid stable > from stable installed at the same time. Yes. :) > IIUC, you want to make it so that you can have both (all) versions installed > at the same time. Doesn?t that require some sort of multiplatform rather than > a stable platform because different versions of something might require a > different platform to run on? No; this is currently out of scope. It'd be awesome if we could, but we think it's less important in an increasingly containerized world. But, feedback on how important this is to users will help us prioritize. (We know not everyone is ready for containers yet.) [...] > So what is a platform, or what remains of it when all the software > you?re using is of so recent versions that the platform itself should > be more recent? Wouldn?t it make sense to also have different > versions of the platform? The platform is hardware (or virt/cloud) enablement, as well as basic shared infrastructure. Newer versions might make it easier to work on newer hardware or new environments, but change is also increased risk for existing situations which work. And yes, it might in some cases make sense to have different versions of that. In Fedora, I expect we will have something similar to the current state: two currently supported base platform releases with an overlapping 13-month lifecycle. If this project is successful, how that will translate to RHEL (and hence CentOS) is a Red Hat business decision out of my scope. I assume, though, something longer-lived. :) -- Matthew Miller <mat...@fedoraproject.org> Fedora Project Leader ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Fedora bugs and EOL [was Re: CentOS users: please try and provide feedback on Fedora] Boltron
On Wed, Aug 02, 2017 at 02:04:54PM +0200, hw wrote: > Just wait and see how he will like the feedback he?s getting here ... Trolling aside (fascist? really?), I've gotten valuable feedback from several people which I really appreciate. I intend to continue to engage with the CentOS community, because when we work on big changes in Fedora which may come to our downstream distributions, it's really useful to have constructive feedback from serious users of those distributions. -- Matthew Miller <mat...@fedoraproject.org> Fedora Project Leader ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Fedora bugs and EOL [was Re: CentOS users: please try and provide feedback on Fedora] Boltron
On Fri, Jul 28, 2017 at 07:56:41PM +0200, hw wrote: > Sure is: You get to manage your distribution yourself by picking the > versions of packages you figure might work together, which you are > supposed and required to do with Gentoo, especially when you run into > yet another dependency conflict. Only --- I guess --- you don?t get > the same level of control over the packages as you get with Gentoo > because there aren?t any USE flags. No, this isn't it it all. Modules are sets of packages which the distribution creators have selected to work together; you don't compose modules as an end-user. > Are you sure that all the added complexity and implicitly giving up a > stable platform by providing a mess of package versions is worth it? This is a false dichotomy. We will be providing a stable platform as the Base Runtime module. > How are the plans about dealing with bug reports, say, for squid 2.7, > for those who need that version for a feature which hasn?t been > included in current versions yet? Just wait a bit until the > distribution goes EOL? Is RH going to fix them once someone has > bought their support? I can't speak to Red Hat plans or Red Hat fixes. In Fedora, we might have, say, squid 3.5, squid 4.0, and squid 5 streams (stable, beta, and devel) all maintained at the same time. -- Matthew Miller <mat...@fedoraproject.org> Fedora Project Leader ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Fedora bugs and EOL [was Re: CentOS users: please try and provide feedback on Fedora] Boltron
On Fri, Jul 28, 2017 at 10:11:53PM +0100, Phil Perry wrote: > The issue I have here is even if I did file a bug, and the issue > were fixed, no sooner than it's fixed fedora updates to the next > version and introduces a whole bunch of new bugs, and so the cycle > continues. I played that game for a while with fedora core when Red > Hat Linux died before settling on Enterprise Linux and have never > looked back. Sure; that's the tradeoff of getting new stuff. But, I'm not asking anyone here to switch to Fedora. I'm asking (especially those of you who are professional sysadmins) to please look at the Modularity prototype. -- Matthew Miller <mat...@fedoraproject.org> Fedora Project Leader ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
[CentOS] Fedora bugs and EOL [was Re: CentOS users: please try and provide feedback on Fedora] Boltron
On Fri, Jul 28, 2017 at 06:13:42PM +0200, hw wrote: > What?s the point of doing this with Fedora? It?s not like bugs > were fixed before Fedora is EOL and all reports are forgotten. Many bugs are fixed in Fedora. Many more bugs are fixed in the upstreams. Please remember that Fedora is primarily an *integration* project, and the best way to get bugs fixed is for the developers of the code in question to be involved. Many Fedora maintainers help facilitate this for users, which is awesome, but the sheer number of bugs exceeds what even our large contributor community can address. I know it sucks when an issue that affects you doesn't get fixed in a timely manner, but we really do appreciate reports and it's helpful if you can retest and reopen EOL bugs if they do indeed still happen in the newer version. Of course, if you _really_ need something fixed and want someone on the hook to do it for you, I suggest Red Hat's commercial offering. > Now Fedora goes Gentoo, which I moved away from because of exactly > what Fedora finally goes for. This is nothing like Gentoo. -- Matthew Miller <mat...@fedoraproject.org> Fedora Project Leader ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
[CentOS] CentOS users: please try and provide feedback on Fedora Boltron
Please take a look at http://www.itworld.com/article/3211046/linux/red-hats-boltron-snaps-together-a-modular-linux-server.html and https://fedoramagazine.org/announcing-boltron/ which has a walkthrough questionnaire at the bottom. Your feedback very appreciated. -- Matthew Miller <mat...@fedoraproject.org> Fedora Project Leader ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] What RH-like on a Dell XPS 15 (9590)?
On Thu, Jul 27, 2017 at 10:24:29PM +0200, wwp wrote: > Right, I'm currently digging that way, struggling a bit w/ the way I > write the F26 ISO to a USB flashdrive (I'll succeed tomorrow, found > better howtos to get rid of unetbootin issues). I recommend using Fedora Media Writer https://github.com/MartinBriza/MediaWriter/releases over unetbootin; our QA team reports that unetbootin just isn't guaranteed to do the right thing. -- Matthew Miller <mat...@fedoraproject.org> Fedora Project Leader ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] What RH-like on a Dell XPS 15 (9590)?
On Thu, Jul 27, 2017 at 08:38:14PM +0200, wwp wrote: > Say, instead of stable, something not rawhide. But I'll examine all > options that do work, so let's forget about "stable". In that case — and I freely admit I have some bias here — I highly recommend Fedora. It's not stable in the sense of strict ABI compliance, although we try to minimize disruption within the 13-month life of a release, but it is stable in the "does not crash" sense. -- Matthew Miller <mat...@fedoraproject.org> Fedora Project Leader ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] What RH-like on a Dell XPS 15 (9590)?
On Thu, Jul 27, 2017 at 07:25:25PM +0200, wwp wrote: > I've just got a Dell XPS 15 (9590) at work and need to set up a stable > GNU/Linux system on it. I thought of CentOS7, but.. obviously its > kernel can't run on this hardware. What sense of the word "stable" are you looking for? -- Matthew Miller <mat...@fedoraproject.org> Fedora Project Leader ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] How does yum decide when 2 packages meet a dependency?
On Fri, Jul 21, 2017 at 05:00:35PM +0100, John Hodrien wrote: > >>Say a package has a dependency for libfoo.so.1, and 2 (or more) > >>packages provide libfoo.so.1, how does yum decide which package to > >>install to meet the dependency? > >It has a series of heuristics: > >http://yum.baseurl.org/wiki/CompareProviders > That's fabulous. You mean Phil could have fixed my issue by renaming the > package priimus so that the name was longer than mesa-libGL ;) Tragically possible. :) -- Matthew Miller <mat...@fedoraproject.org> Fedora Project Leader ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] How does yum decide when 2 packages meet a dependency?
On Fri, Jul 21, 2017 at 04:19:20PM +0100, Phil Perry wrote: > Say a package has a dependency for libfoo.so.1, and 2 (or more) > packages provide libfoo.so.1, how does yum decide which package to > install to meet the dependency? It has a series of heuristics: http://yum.baseurl.org/wiki/CompareProviders -- Matthew Miller <mat...@fedoraproject.org> Fedora Project Leader ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] systemd services and Restart?
On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 12:54:43PM +, James Pearson wrote: > However, I notice that this option is only used in a few OS provided > service unit files - and was wondering about the wisdom of adding this > capability to other daemons/services? (e.g. chronyd or ntpd, crond, > rpcbind, etc, etc) - not that these daemons are likely to crash and need > restarting that often ... I think it's a good idea. We just haven't had a push (either at Red Hat internally or Fedora upstream) to go through and enable this everywhere it makes sense. The guidelines do recommend it: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Packaging:Systemd#Automatic_restarting > Are there any potential pit-falls in using Restart with OS provided > daemons/services? See the caveat on Restart=on-abnormal in the doc above. -- Matthew Miller <mat...@fedoraproject.org> Fedora Project Leader ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] systemd order help?
On Tue, Jun 13, 2017 at 01:33:33PM +0100, James Hogarth wrote: > >> Depending on your setup, you many want to look at converting your > >> automatic mounts into systemd mounts, and depend on that directly, > >> rather than on the autofs service. [...] > But unless you need a complicated map arrangement I'd argue on EL7 > you'd be better off using the fstab option to make the mount automount Yeah, exactly what I meant with the first paragraph above. :) I've seen some prety complicated setups. And by seen, I mean "been responsible for". And by "responsible", I mean "to blame". :) -- Matthew Miller <mat...@fedoraproject.org> Fedora Project Leader ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] systemd order help?
On Tue, Jun 13, 2017 at 06:34:54AM +0100, James Hogarth wrote: > Depending on your setup, you many want to look at converting your > automatic mounts into systemd mounts, and depend on that directly, > rather than on the autofs service. [...] > Just one little thing to note here that many don't realise. All mounts in > the system (ie not manually via the mount command) are systemd mounts. This isn't true for autofs, is it? > Finally autofs is made even easier with systemd as all you need to do to > declare a mount autofs is x-systemd.automount in the options field and then > it'll only be mounted on demand rather than at boot. I mean, autofs using the traditional autofs -- Matthew Miller <mat...@fedoraproject.org> Fedora Project Leader ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] systemd order help?
On Mon, Jun 12, 2017 at 03:47:46PM +, James Pearson wrote: > I'm guessing I could use something like: > > After=autofs.service > Before=graphical.target > > Is this correct? > > However, I would like to use the same systemd unit file on servers that > won't run X - will the above work? Or is there a better/another way of > doing this? You probably want "display-manager.service" instead of "graphical.target". You also will want "Requires=autofs.service". The distinction between "After/Before" and "Requires" is exactly for the reason you give; the ordering directives don't require anything, so without display-manager.service enabled, Before=display-manager.service is just a no-op. Actually, you might even want "BindsTo=autofs.service", which is stronger. Depending on your setup, you many want to look at converting your automatic mounts into systemd mounts, and depend on that directly, rather than on the autofs service. -- Matthew Miller <mat...@fedoraproject.org> Fedora Project Leader ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] C7, systemd, say what?!
On Wed, Jun 07, 2017 at 11:31:06AM -0400, Mark Haney wrote: > I would wholeheartedly disagree. This IS something systemd > specific. I have never seen init.d blow itself up over bloody > symlinks. The readahead, while /possibly/ nice isn't at all > necessary on modern hardware. I want my hardware to boot > consistently, not bomb like an Adam Sandler movie because of > /symlinks/. Now this is just silly. It didn't "blow itself up". Nothing blew up at all. There are just messages logged. There is no actual problem. -- Matthew Miller <mat...@fedoraproject.org> Fedora Project Leader ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] C7, systemd, say what?!
On Wed, Jun 07, 2017 at 10:10:14AM -0400, m.r...@5-cent.us wrote: > I just updated a system - as in minutes ago, and log back in after it > reboots, and this is in dmesg: > [ 88.202272] systemd-readahead[484]: > open(/var/tmp/dracut.fP4yj1/initramfs/usr/bin/loginctl) failed: Too many > levels of symbolic links > [ 88.202515] systemd-readahead[484]: > open(/var/tmp/dracut.fP4yj1/initramfs/usr/lib/systemd/system/dracut-emergency.service) > failed: Too many levels of symbolic links > Anyone know what this is - some weird bug, a garbage message? systemd-readahead is just trying to pre-cache stuff into memory so boot time is faster. I'm not sure eaxctly what's going on here but that message is typical of having a loop in your symbolic links (which can easily happen with relative links). I'm not quite sure what *exactly* is going on, but it looks like maybe dracut temp files didn't get cleaned up properly and that they contain such a loop. I bet you can just rm -rf /var/tmp/dracut.fP4yj1. -- Matthew Miller <mat...@fedoraproject.org> Fedora Project Leader ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Trick to compile older packages
On Tue, Feb 07, 2017 at 11:11:43AM -0500, Jerry Geis wrote: > When I extract and try to compile gst-rtsp-server 0.10.8 the ./configure > goes fine. > but the make results in errors: [...] > CC libgstrtspserver_0.10_la-rtsp-media.lo > rtsp-media.c: In function 'gst_rtsp_media_class_init': > rtsp-media.c:143:3: error: 'g_thread_create' is deprecated (declared at > /usr/include/glib-2.0/glib/deprecated/gthread.h:104): Use 'g_thread_new' > instead [-Werror=deprecated-declarations] >klass->thread = g_thread_create ((GThreadFunc) do_loop, klass, TRUE, > ); So, the root of this problem is building old code against a new glib2, without updating the code. But it _looks_ like this should just be a warning, and has been promoted to an error. Are you building with -Werror? -- Matthew Miller <mat...@fedoraproject.org> Fedora Project Leader ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Cron.Hourly
On Thu, Feb 02, 2017 at 10:55:00AM -0600, Matt wrote: > When I have multiple scripts in /etc/cron.hourly/ using noanacron do > they all start at same time or sequentially? I would rather they all > went at same time in case one takes close to an hour to complete. Sequentially. This is accomplished by a line in /etc/cron.d like this: 01 * * * * root run-parts /etc/cron.hourly and `run-parts` is a bash script which goes through in a loop (with logic to avoid certain filenames and to implement random delay, but not much else). I think good practice is to only drop short-running scripts in that directory; longer jobs should get their own /etc/cron.d entries. -- Matthew Miller <mat...@fedoraproject.org> Fedora Project Leader ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Can't delete or move /home on 7.3 install
On Tue, Dec 20, 2016 at 02:07:03PM -0500, Matthew Miller wrote: > If you wanted to change this, drop ProtectHome=false into > /etc/systemd/system/NetworkMananger.service.d/override.conf (possibly > by using sudo systemctl edit foo NetworkMananger). Sorry, no "foo" — that was a cut-paste error. And as Jonathan says, make sure to spell NetworkManager right. :) sudo systemctl edit NetworkManager -- Matthew Miller <mat...@fedoraproject.org> Fedora Project Leader ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Can't delete or move /home on 7.3 install
On Fri, Dec 16, 2016 at 02:29:28PM -0500, Jonathan Billings wrote: > The culprit? NetworkManager has /home open. I can't figure out > *WHY*. NetworkManager.service has 'ProtectHome=read-only', which keeps NM from writing there. I presume namespacing /home in this way counts against unmounting it. This is a good security protection for everyone running NM, so I can see it being worth the tradeoff vs. being able to move or remove /home on a live system. (It also has ProtectSystem=true, which mounts /usr and /boot read-only as well.) If you wanted to change this, drop ProtectHome=false into /etc/systemd/system/NetworkMananger.service.d/override.conf (possibly by using sudo systemctl edit foo NetworkMananger). -- Matthew Miller <mat...@fedoraproject.org> Fedora Project Leader ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] bash on ubuntu (centos) on windows
On Thu, Dec 08, 2016 at 02:47:31PM -0700, Warren Young wrote: > No, but it does implement the kernel syscall interface and an ELF loader. > Therefore, there is no reason, in principle, why you could not build > a CentOS userland on top of the Windows Subsystem for Linux. I have not tried it, but there is a tool which will let you switch to any other userspace published on the Docker Hub (which would include Fedora and CentOS): https://github.com/RoliSoft/WSL-Distribution-Switcher I imagine (but have no actual idea) that the next evolution of this will simply be making Linux-based Docker containers work (without using hyperv as Docker does now). -- Matthew Miller <mat...@fedoraproject.org> Fedora Project Leader ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] RHEL 7.3 released
On Fri, Nov 04, 2016 at 10:05:39AM -0400, Mark Haney wrote: > I'm with Matthew Phelps on this. If CentOS is built with the exact same > sources as RHEL, why not keep the numbering scheme the same? That would > make life easier for people like me who build CentOS RPMs from > tarballs/SRPMS that run on RHEL and having to look up version numbers is > just idiotic. I mean, that's a Microsoft pet peeve of mine. I don't have a horse in this particular race¹, but it is worth noting that there has *always* been a difference between CentOS and Red Hat Enterprise Linux here, as CentOS does not continue the ".y" streams after a new one is out, but RHEL does. That is, you can't install "CentOS 7.1", install current updates, and still have CentOS 7.1. With RHEL, this is something you can buy: https://www.redhat.com/f/pdf/rhel/LIFECYCLE_EUS_Datasheet_22_DEC.pdf This *is* an important distinction. I don't know if changing the versioning is the best way to make it more clear, but I *do* think making it more clear is betst for everyone. 1. although I do work for Red Hat, of the things I care about, this is not particularly high on the list -- Matthew Miller <mat...@fedoraproject.org> Fedora Project Leader ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] CentOS-7-x86_64-GenericCloud.raw very unusual format
On Tue, Oct 11, 2016 at 08:16:14AM -0400, Aliaksei Sheshka wrote:
> Kind of, there is a CentOS-7-x86_64-GenericCloud.raw.tar.gz ( compare
> with CentOS-7-x86_64-GenericCloud.raw.xz )
> But again link is not good, and why put raw disk inside the tar?
> It would me more natural to have compressed image so one can do
> {z,bz,xc}cat cloud.raw.xz > /dev/lvm/vm-disk for example.
Earlier versions of xz (RHEL 5, I think?) didn't handle sparse files,
and we put the Fedora raw cloud image inside a tar for that reason. I
don't know if the same applies here, but it might.
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Re: [CentOS] Whether to use systemd to start services
On Tue, Sep 06, 2016 at 08:03:01PM +, Stalker, Tim wrote: > I'm wondering if it's normally required to start services with > systemd as opposed to sysv? I currently load a few services using the > old init.d/service funtionality, which still works fine. Is this ok > or is sysv going to be fully discontinued in the future? The service > I load is celeryd via init.d but so far finding few pointers as to > how to do this with a celery.service file. I can load the service > with this line execStart=/etc/init.d/celeryd I don't think there's any plan to remove the sysv init script compatibility from systemd. That should basically continue to work forever, and if it's working for you, awesome. If you _do_ want to convert a script, there's a nice guide over on Fedora Magazine: https://fedoramagazine.org/systemd-converting-sysvinit-scripts/ Why would you want to? You can get some nice functionality like restart-on-crash behavior or resource limiting with cgroups. But, again, if you don't wanna, you don't hafta. -- Matthew Miller <mat...@fedoraproject.org> Fedora Project Leader ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] one-shot yum command to match rpms between systems?
On Wed, May 18, 2016 at 11:39:10AM -0600, Frank Cox wrote:
> > ( rpm -qa --qf '%{name}.%{arch}\n' | sort | diff --old-line-format='install
> > %
> > L' --new-line-format='remove %L' -unchanged-line-format='' list.txt - ; echo
> > run ) | yum shell
> This looks pretty much like what I had in mind.
> Great! Thanks!
Let me know if it works. :)
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Re: [CentOS] one-shot yum command to match rpms between systems?
On Wed, May 18, 2016 at 12:54:51AM -0600, Frank Cox wrote:
> Given a list of rpms on one system (rpm -qa > list.txt), is there a
> one-shot command that I can run on another system to remove all of
> the rpms not listed and add any that are on the list and not present
> on the second system?
I think you can pull this off with `yum shell`. First, though, don't do
`rpm -qa` as your list — do `rpm -qa --qf '%{name}.%{arch}\n'|sort` instead.
That way, version numbers won't complicate things.
And then, on the second system (the one you want to change), try this
crazy oneliner:
( rpm -qa --qf '%{name}.%{arch}\n' | sort | diff --old-line-format='install %L'
--new-line-format='remove %L' -unchanged-line-format='' list.txt - ; echo run )
| yum shell
It's not really as bad as it looks — the diff formatting is just
verbose. The first command just gets the package list from the current
system; then we sort it, and then get the difference in a formatted as
a list of "install" and "remove" commands. Then add "run" to the end,
and pipe all of that to yum shell.
This is totally untested but I'll give it good odds of working. :)
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