Re: [CentOS] Feeding CentOS build results to twitter

2011-04-07 Thread Scott Silva
on 4/5/2011 11:46 PM John R Pierce spake the following:
 On 04/05/11 11:32 PM, Emmanuel Noobadmin wrote:
 A lot of the anxiety seems to be about the silence about any kind of
 progress.
 
 there's a fair amount of traffic on centos-devel
 
 archives here,
 http://lists.centos.org/pipermail/centos-devel/2011-April/thread.html
Most of the traffic lately is the same is it done yet stuff on here. The
rest is developer and distro bashing/defending.

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Re: [CentOS] Feeding CentOS build results to twitter (was: Centos 6 Update?)

2011-04-06 Thread Emmanuel Noobadmin
 This was done on a trailling basis for a couple side arch's
 builders by me and another.  It turns out to be a lot of
 chatter and 'noise', and not much 'signal'

Although it might not be of any real use in indicating when a version
would be ready, I think it helps a lot psychologically when people can
see that something is being done, even if it's discovering bugs that
will push back the release.

A lot of the anxiety seems to be about the silence about any kind of
progress. A tweet or post of that nature once a week takes maybe all
of 1 minute to send but would reduce a lot of the unpleasant noise I
see being tossed up on the forum and lists. I suspect it would be less
frustrating for the devs as well by reducing the amount of bitching
and offers of help they don't want at this point.
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Re: [CentOS] Feeding CentOS build results to twitter

2011-04-06 Thread John R Pierce
On 04/05/11 11:32 PM, Emmanuel Noobadmin wrote:
 A lot of the anxiety seems to be about the silence about any kind of
 progress.

there's a fair amount of traffic on centos-devel

archives here,
http://lists.centos.org/pipermail/centos-devel/2011-April/thread.html



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Re: [CentOS] Feeding CentOS build results to twitter

2011-04-06 Thread Emmanuel Noobadmin
On 4/6/11, John R Pierce pie...@hogranch.com wrote:
 On 04/05/11 11:32 PM, Emmanuel Noobadmin wrote:
 A lot of the anxiety seems to be about the silence about any kind of
 progress.

 there's a fair amount of traffic on centos-devel

 archives here,
 http://lists.centos.org/pipermail/centos-devel/2011-April/thread.html

Apologies, I wasn't subscribed to the dev list since I didn't think I
would had been able to contribute anything. Fortunately, I'm also not
fixated about when exactly is Centos 6 coming out.

Maybe the standard reply to those chasing for status on Centos 6
should be Please subscribe to devel list to follow updates since
chances are the majority of them are only checking the site or the
user list.
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Re: [CentOS] Feeding CentOS build results to twitter

2011-04-06 Thread Alain Péan
Le 06/04/2011 09:08, Emmanuel Noobadmin a écrit :

 Apologies, I wasn't subscribed to the dev list since I didn't think I
 would had been able to contribute anything. Fortunately, I'm also not
 fixated about when exactly is Centos 6 coming out.

 Maybe the standard reply to those chasing for status on Centos 6
 should be Please subscribe to devel list to follow updates since
 chances are the majority of them are only checking the site or the
 user list.

Hi Emmanuel,

You don't have to subscribe to dev's mailing list, only consult the 
archives :
http://lists.centos.org/pipermail/centos-devel/

Alain

-- 
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Administrateur Système/Réseau
Laboratoire de Physique des Plasmas - UMR 7648
Observatoire de Saint-Maur
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Re: [CentOS] Feeding CentOS build results to twitter

2011-04-06 Thread Karanbir Singh
On 04/06/2011 07:32 AM, Emmanuel Noobadmin wrote:
 Although it might not be of any real use in indicating when a version
 would be ready, I think it helps a lot psychologically when people can
 see that something is being done, even if it's discovering bugs that
 will push back the release.


As Russ already pointed out, the build status indicator isnt really of 
much value. However, something that *might* be of some value is if 
people can actually get a perspective on present state. Thats something 
I'm working on and hope to have in place once we get 6 out of the door.

Part of the reason why people think I'm out of sync in my estimates is 
down to the fact that package change  and implications of those packages 
include downwards deps as well. So we can be at 95% done, with 1 package 
change taking us down to 75% and it goes on. I guess people like Dag and 
Hendrik just done understand these sort of things very well.

- KB
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Re: [CentOS] Feeding CentOS build results to twitter (was: Centos 6Update?)

2011-04-05 Thread Brunner, Brian T.
centos-boun...@centos.org wrote:
 On Mon, 4 Apr 2011, Digimer wrote:
 
 As an aside, does the CentOS build environment (understanding that it
 needs to be built, too), able to tweet something like last build; X
 packages OK, Y packages failed?
 
 This was done on a trailling basis for a couple side arch's
 builders by me and another.  It turns out to be a lot of
 chatter and 'noise', and not much 'signal'

I would venture: It would be more polite and civil chatter than what
this thread has put into the CentOS mailing list archives.

*cringes at the difficulty that strangers face, wading through our slop
looking for helpful tidbits of know-how*

Thought for posting guidelines for this list: 
If it's not a request for help with a CentOS component, or an answer
thereto, it probably doesn't belong on this list


Insert spiffy .sig here:
Life is complex: it has both real and imaginary parts.


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[CentOS] Feeding CentOS build results to twitter (was: Centos 6 Update?)

2011-04-04 Thread Digimer
On 04/04/2011 06:45 PM, Gilbert Sebenste wrote:
 Maybe its users need to realize that:
 
 1. This entire thing is run by volunteers
 
 2. This has been a very difficult release
 because of various apparent RedHat changes
 
 3. Some releases were be faster---or slower---
 than others
 
 4. Centos 4.9, 5.6 and 6.0 hit at pretty much the same time
 
 5. A properly configured firewall and the latest 5.5 patches,
 along with smart web browsing, indicates that there
 should be few if any security problems with C5.5 as it
 is now (sure, there are bugs, most of them local or
 DOS attacks, and I have yet to hear of one yet)
 
 6. When it seems like they are close, another bug or issue(s) is/are found
 
 7. I'm beta testing software done by volunteers and people are complaining 
 about when's the new release, when there are multiple issues 
 evolving/changing externally that hamper our release.
 
 So with #7, I personally get why this has been late, as defined by some 
 users. But, as Karanbir and others have stated: there is no timeline, it's 
 when we can get to it. Typically 4-8 weeks, but this one has proven 
 problematic. And again, more fingers in the honeypot can make things 
 worse, especially when a release is trying to get pushed out the door.
 
 Now, Karanbir does realize that communication needed to be improved, and 
 when there's new developments, he posts it now on Twitter. But I'd rather 
 him solve the issues, than dealing with the repeated um, hey guys, you're 
 REALLY late now!. I'm sure they wanted it out the door two months ago.
 During a release is not when a project needs help. It's starting on the 
 next one...thinking CentoS 5.7/6.1.
 
 Otherwise, some people really need to sit down and think if CentOS is what 
 is needed, or RHEL. And as RedHat throws more monkey wrenches into their 
 source, which could force anyone making a distro from RHEL harder and 
 harder in the future, are you willing to wait 12-16 weeks for a new 
 release? If not, head to RHEL in your next budget cycle, or something 
 else. But having been there, done that, the only thing I would have done 
 differently with C5.6 is posted a few times still have issues we're 
 working on, no release date in sight yet, or words to that effect, and 
 Karanbir is doing that now. Well, did; he said it should be syncing to the 
 mirrors soon. Yay! Can't wait to upgrade.

Thank you. :)

As an aside, does the CentOS build environment (understanding that it
needs to be built, too), able to tweet something like last build; X
packages OK, Y packages failed?

The reason I ask is that this would relieve some workload for the devs,
and people who need to know the progress could simply follow the
tweets. No more requests for when is it ready? No more needing to
explain we ran into problems or what not. Heck, someone could even
chart the progress by feeding the build stats into a graph.

So this way, no one would have to give time lines, make guesses or
wonder. It just magically appears and users can interpret it any way
they wish.

An idea that is freely discarded. :P

-- 
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[CentOS] Feeding CentOS build results to twitter (was: Centos 6 Update?)

2011-04-04 Thread R P Herrold
On Mon, 4 Apr 2011, Digimer wrote:

 As an aside, does the CentOS build environment (understanding that it
 needs to be built, too), able to tweet something like last build; X
 packages OK, Y packages failed?

This was done on a trailling basis for a couple side arch's 
builders by me and another.  It turns out to be a lot of 
chatter and 'noise', and not much 'signal'

-- Russ herrold
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Re: [CentOS] Feeding CentOS build results to twitter (was: Centos 6 Update?)

2011-04-04 Thread Peter A
On Monday, April 04, 2011 10:43:08 PM R P Herrold wrote:
 On Mon, 4 Apr 2011, Digimer wrote:
  As an aside, does the CentOS build environment (understanding that it
  needs to be built, too), able to tweet something like last build; X
  packages OK, Y packages failed?
 
 This was done on a trailling basis for a couple side arch's
 builders by me and another.  It turns out to be a lot of
 chatter and 'noise', and not much 'signal'
Very true but, at least in my experience, signal doesn't matter in such a case 
cause most people that waited and complained anyway don't know what to really 
look for. They just want a progress meter of some form... A simple countdown 
of package numbers would probably be sufficient.

Peter.
-- 
Censorship: noun, circa 1591. a: Relief of the burden of independent thinking.
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