Re: [CentOS] How to add to EPEL wishlist?
On Thu, 28 Jun 2007, Radu-Cristian FOTESCU wrote: What's amazing is that he got his problem resolved, I would never have thought to post to this list to get something on the fedora wiki fixed. It's kinda like posting to a MS Word list a problem about OpenOffice. Well, thank you all, but Paul, you're not correct. My first mail asked for advice. It was not hey, I want those packages in EPEL!, but rather does anyone know how one can suggest packages to be added to EPEL? I thought that was clear enough, and since EPEL users are RHEL users + CentOS users + SL users + StartCom users, I also believed [some of] you should already be using EPEL, some of you needing more, and some of you already *knowing* how to add suggestions for EPEL! And you send that mail to the wrong list. Just admit that and your life becomes easier. There's nothing wrong with admiting an error, people respect you for it. But arguing the opposite while people know better is plain *censored*. Sure, some people here know your answers. Hell, you could ask Microsoft questions here and get answers. But that doesn't mean this is the right list for Microsoft questions. I'm sure you can understand this without arguing. To me, it was a very logical thing to do: ask people who NEED those packages, not people who are not actually using them! (Fedora guys use Fedora, right?) Go and tell the EPEL people. EPEL is a Fedora project and not a CentOS project. Go check the EPEL mailinglist where we have discussed that Fedora is probably the wrong place to create CentOS/RHEL packages. It's amazing indeed how things moved towards a solution, however it's also amazing how in A.D. 2007 people always rush to cry wrong list! wrong list!, w/o even making the i++; logical iteration to realize _why_ the post was made on this list! When I first used a mailing list 12 years ago, discussions were absolutely frank, open, polite and low-stress, but now on almost all lists there are wars, flame wars, nervous people and bad karma. Keeping a list on-topic is important, that's why we send mails to tell people they are on the wrong list instead of answering their question. If people would answer any question on any list, there would not be a purpose to mailinglists, we could create one true big list where everybody is subscribed and everybody could answer every topic. I'm sure you can figure out that is not an ideal situation. There is a good reason for keeping mails on topic and having different mailinglists about different topics. If you find it offending that people tell you this, it is you who has the problem. I'm sorry *I* have to tell you this. Everything else you imply is probably a perception. Nobody is interested in a flame-war, nobody is nervous, nobody has bad karma, except mayb you ? Kind regards, -- dag wieers, [EMAIL PROTECTED], http://dag.wieers.com/ -- [all I want is a warm bed and a kind word and unlimited power] ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] How to add to EPEL wishlist?
I'm sorry, that mail was meant to go Radu-Cristian personally. I have no intention to open this thread again. -- dag wieers, [EMAIL PROTECTED], http://dag.wieers.com/ -- [all I want is a warm bed and a kind word and unlimited power] ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] How to add to EPEL wishlist?
On Fri, 6 Jul 2007, Radu-Cristian FOTESCU wrote: EPEL? I thought that was clear enough, and since EPEL users are RHEL users + CentOS users + SL users + StartCom users, I also believed [some of] you should already be using EPEL, some of you needing more, and some of you already *knowing* how to add suggestions for EPEL! And you send that mail to the wrong list. Just admit that and your life becomes easier. There's nothing wrong with admiting an error, people respect you for it. Nope. It is not *the* wrong list. Is the list of some of the target users of the EPEL packages. ALL the following user lists are valid lists because they contain people that are part of the EPEL's intended audience: -- Red Hat (RHEL) lists (NON-Fedora); -- CentOS lists; -- Scientific Linux lists; -- StartCom lists. Radu-Christian, you are a smart guy. If you send a mail containing: Does anyone know how to submit wishes to the EPEL Wishlist here? to the CentOS mailinglist and NOT to the EPEL mailinglist. You have send it to the wrong mailinglist. No arguing required really. Spare us the effort. Ralph is the mailinglist maintainer, if he tells you politely it is off-topic, there is no need to argue. There is no need to reply. But arguing the opposite while people know better is plain *censored*. Yes, Dag, you know better because you're a developer. Sorry, I forgot you're a God. (But I'm an agnostic anyway.) I am not a developer and I have no clue what that has to do with anything. I would be pleased if you read my mail without any connotations at all. You add the connotations, not me. Sure, some people here know your answers. Hell, you could ask Microsoft questions here and get answers. But that doesn't mean this is the right list for Microsoft questions. I'm sure you can understand this without arguing. What has M$ to do with this? why should Microsoft be the best second example in any discussion? It was an example as much as any other example. I could have said Apple, I could have said Google. Every one of those examples makes the point. But maybe you do not want to see the point and that makes every example bad. Go and tell the EPEL people. EPEL is a Fedora project and not a CentOS project. Go check the EPEL mailinglist where we have discussed that Fedora is probably the wrong place to create CentOS/RHEL packages. Of course Fedora is a bad place to create packages that willl *not* be used under Fedora, but under RHEL clones! So they are basically *not* interested in the matter. So *you*, CentOS, SciLi, StartCom and RHEL users are more interested. So maybe you have asked yourself how to add packages to EPEL, who to ask, what to do, etc. THIS IS WHY I HAVE ASKED HERE JUST IN CASE SOMEONE KNOWS MORE! (If this is so hard to understand, I am sorry to say, but you're an idiot, socially speaking, because I don't question your IQ.) CentOS is not related to EPEL or Fedora. In fact, since EPEL is incompatible with RPMforge, ATrpms and CentOS Extras and because most CentOS users use RPMforge and ATrpms, I guess when EPEL is announced officially I'll have to add a statement that EPEL/Fedora is not interested in compatibility with RPMforge. Keeping a list on-topic is important, that's why we send mails to tell people they are on the wrong list instead of answering their question. On-topic doesn't include the very many questions I am reading now and then saying how do I do this in CentOS, but they don't have anything CentOS-specific, but should rather say how do I do this in Linux... it is nevertheless better to answer to those people (and this is what is generally happening). How do I do something in Linux often bails down to: what is the best way to do it in CentOS. So yes, all of those questions belongs to the list because if you are a CentOS user, the CentOS mailinglist is the most apropriate. For EPEL questions, the CentOS list is not te most appropriate. In fact, the EPEL mailinglist is. That is why Ralph politely told you that the EPEL mailinglist is the place to ask the question. And it could have ended there without a fuss. But it is your arguing that makes it look like everybody is after you. That is your perception problem, not the mailinglists problem. Kind regards, -- dag wieers, [EMAIL PROTECTED], http://dag.wieers.com/ -- [all I want is a warm bed and a kind word and unlimited power] ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] How to add to EPEL wishlist?
On Fri, 2007-07-06 at 22:53 +0200, Dag Wieers wrote: I'm once again sorry for sending this to the list. Sigh. I guess, I need a mail client that protects the mailinglist from me. Nah! The fact that nobody else argues with you on this list may help convince Radu that he is mistaken. And it is better (for him?) than total silence. Your contributions to the community (overall) also warrant forgiveness for the occasional misdirected email. Further, since the net etiquette is the long-term consensus of many users, maybe Radu will be convinced when others return to work, see the posts and chime in supporting the positions expressed by Ralph and yourself. And I'm sure that Radu is reasonable enough at some point to appreciate the time you took to educate him, even if he still disagrees. -- dag wieers, [EMAIL PROTECTED], http://dag.wieers.com/ -- [all I want is a warm bed and a kind word and unlimited power] Well, you probably have two out of three now. 66% success is not bad in this life! :-) ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos MHO -- Bill ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] How to add to EPEL wishlist?
On 7/6/07, William L. Maltby [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, you probably have two out of three now. 66% success is not bad in this life! :-) Maybe for public school folks... around here that's a low D, and I expect better from the CentOS community dammit! /sorry, couldn't resist... //I'm also the victim of a public school education, so no need to throw stones about that one. -- During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act. George Orwell ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] How to add to EPEL wishlist?
--- Dag Wieers [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm once again sorry for sending this to the list. Sigh. I guess, I need a mail client that protects the mailinglist from me. -- dag wieers, [EMAIL PROTECTED], http://dag.wieers.com/ -- [all I want is a warm bed and a kind word and unlimited power] ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos I enjoy public floggingsplease do it more.. :-) Steven Get your Art Supplies @ www.littleartstore.com ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] How to add to EPEL wishlist?
Around 07:27am on Friday, June 29, 2007 (UK time), Radu-Cristian FOTESCU scrawled: _why_ the post was made on this list! When I first used a mailing list 12 years ago, discussions were absolutely frank, open, polite and low-stress, but now on almost all lists there are wars, flame wars, nervous people and bad karma. Perhaps its me causeing it :-) been seeing all those things for the last 12 years. Steve -- A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting a bad thing? 15:08:04 up 3 days, 18:47, 0 users, load average: 0.00, 0.03, 0.06 pgpgDKuz5BXMG.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] How to add to EPEL wishlist?
On Thu, 28 Jun 2007, Radu-Cristian FOTESCU wrote: It's amazing indeed how things moved towards a solution, however it's also amazing how in A.D. 2007 people always rush to cry wrong list! wrong list!, w/o even making the i++; logical iteration to realize _why_ the post was made on this list! When I first used a mailing list 12 years ago, discussions were absolutely frank, open, polite and low-stress, but now on almost all lists there are wars, flame wars, nervous people and bad karma. +1 It's the human analog of the wise software dictum: Be liberal about what you receive, strict about what you return. -- Paul Heinlein [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.madboa.com/ ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
[CentOS] How to add to EPEL wishlist?
Does anyone know how to submit wishes to the EPEL Wishlist here? http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/EPEL/WishList It reads Immutable Page. They say: Please add packages that are part of Fedora but lack a EPEL maintainer to this list, but there is no way to do that! They don't say if Packages part of Fedora means Core or it can be Extras too, but packages obviously missing from RHEL (4 and 5) and castrating the KDE desktop include: -- JuK (it was stripped off kdemultimedia); -- Kaffeine; -- gtk-qt-engine; ... As a side note for AmaroK lovers: I am very happy with the simpler JuK on systems where I have it, and it *does* have a future, as it will be present in KDE4 too: http://www.purinchu.net/wp/2007/06/26/juk-love/ But Red Hat _hates_ KDE apps, and it even castrates official KDE packages such as kdemultimedia... Thanks, R-C __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] How to add to EPEL wishlist?
On Thu, 2007-06-28 at 03:46 -0700, Radu-Cristian FOTESCU wrote: Does anyone know how to submit wishes to the EPEL Wishlist here? http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/EPEL/WishList It reads Immutable Page. Wrong list? -- Daniel ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] How to add to EPEL wishlist?
Wrong list? The subject line was a question. EPEL stands for... you know what. And CentOS is a rebuild of... you know what. Therefore, I suspect that CentOS users would/should/could be interested in adding EPEL as an extra repository. You know, there is more than Karan[bir] and DAG on Earth... But yes, it might be a wrong list, for different reasons than you thought of. R-C __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] How to add to EPEL wishlist?
On Thu, Jun 28, 2007 at 03:46:46AM -0700, Radu-Cristian FOTESCU wrote: Does anyone know how to submit wishes to the EPEL Wishlist here? http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/EPEL/WishList It reads Immutable Page. You need a Wiki account (FAS): http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/WikiEditing#head-3d4b8815f923a8f137fb466901ca2cf1b567cf0f You can contact me if you like to get added to the EditGroup when you've completed the process (use [EMAIL PROTECTED]) Ray ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] How to add to EPEL wishlist?
You need a Wiki account (FAS): http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/WikiEditing#head-3d4b8815f923a8f137fb466901ca2cf1b567cf0f You can contact me if you like to get added to the EditGroup when you've completed the process It was obvious that I would need an account, so I made one. It was less than obvious that it would be useless. It's only now that I've read the whole complexity of the process to be performed *before* someone could add you to the EditGroup -- it's so unbelievable for a poor civilian that I am that I feel like I am already at Gitmo! Here's what I could read one should do: 1. Complete the Contributor License Agreement, but this has prerequisite steps. 2. In order to do that, you have to create a SSH key. 3. You then have to create a GPG key. 4. You have to create a Fedora account (not a wiki account!). 5. For that, your GPG key should be published to hkp://pgp.mit.edu/. 6. Submit the form to apply for a Fedora account. 7. Request the Contributor License Agreement (CLA). 8. Edit it to agree with it, GPG-sign it, and send it back. 9. Only now you can contact someone from the EditGroup to ask for the right to edit the wiki page that holds the EPEL wishlist! To me, it would be simpler to apply to visit the Pentagon or the CIA! I am disgusted by the way the Fedora people handle all this stuff. Everyone knowing how a Bugzilla works, or even how a mailing list works, can easily find that much simpler ways were available to the public to be able to SUGGEST a few packages for inclusion in EPEL. When GNOME asked the public in August-Sept. 2006 what new game to add to GNOME games, before setting up the Usage Survey, a suggestion list was open. It was easy to add suggestions there, by simply creating a wiki account, no fuss added, no strings attached. Now I know I can't expect for *anything* from EPEL. I can only rely on what's already there, plus what we can find in centosplus, Dag, Karan, ATrpms, and a few others. I am shocked. R-C Ask a question on any topic and get answers from real people. Go to Yahoo! Answers and share what you know at http://ca.answers.yahoo.com ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] How to add to EPEL wishlist?
On Fri, 2007-06-29 at 00:10 +0200, Ralph Angenendt wrote: Radu-Cristian FOTESCU wrote: I am shocked. And still on the wrong list. OK, if you want me out, I'll unsubscribe. You're right, it's a list with a bad karma. I *knew* that people on the CentOS ML are much more _aggressive_ than people on the SciLinux ML. It's not about that, you're probably getting me wrong there. But we can do *nothing* about administrative problems with EPEL - especially with the fedora wiki - as we have no stake in that. That's what the fedora lists are about, for epel it's the fedora-epel list. What's amazing is that he got his problem resolved, I would never have thought to post to this list to get something on the fedora wiki fixed. It's kinda like posting to a MS Word list a problem about OpenOffice. Ray's reply should have taken it off this list and the two of them should have sorted it out off-list. Well, less noise here than the fedora lists last I checked, and Ralph's wrong list reminder is much less rude than what I've seen on the fedora list also. Paul ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
