Re: [CentOS] Moving to CentOS 8 Stream

[Matthew Miller]

On Fri, Dec 11, 2020 at 09:39:54AM -0800, Japheth Cleaver wrote:
> It would be nice to have updates from RedHat on where it's
> positioning UBI then. Previously it had directly pointed to specific
> target use-cases, which limit its usefulness for even some pretty
> simple cases outside that baliwick. Example:
> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1758358#c3

I am not part of the decision-making chain for this (personally, I would
have swung bigger!) but I respect the people who are, and as I understand
it, the intention is to demonstrate success in those constrained use-cases
and grow carefully from there (that's what Scott says in that bug, and I'm
sure he's not making it up).

I think probably these "simple outside-the-baliwick"
cases are good to send to the centos-questi...@redhat.com address, or to bug
Scott about specifically with more details of the use case. That bug has "it
may be useful for some users" but if you can expand that with several user
stories it might be more compelling.

-- 
Matthew Millermat...@mattdm.org 
Fedora Project Leader  mat...@fedoraproject.org   
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Re: [CentOS] Moving to CentOS 8 Stream

[Japheth Cleaver]

On 12/11/2020 8:12 AM, Matthew Miller wrote:

On Fri, Dec 11, 2020 at 07:13:19AM -0700, James Szinger wrote:

Except that there are no container images available for Stream. :(

There certainly will be.

Also for container use cases, you might want to consider UBI, which is
literal RHEL binaries, and which becomes supported when run on supported
RHEL systems but is free to run anywhere.

It would be nice to have updates from RedHat on where it's positioning 
UBI then. Previously it had directly pointed to specific target 
use-cases, which limit its usefulness for even some pretty simple cases 
outside that baliwick. Example: 
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1758358#c3


-jc

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Re: [CentOS] Moving to CentOS 8 Stream

[Matthew Miller]

On Fri, Dec 11, 2020 at 07:13:19AM -0700, James Szinger wrote:
> Except that there are no container images available for Stream. :(

There certainly will be.

Also for container use cases, you might want to consider UBI, which is
literal RHEL binaries, and which becomes supported when run on supported
RHEL systems but is free to run anywhere.

-- 
Matthew Miller

Fedora Project Leader
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Re: [CentOS] Moving to CentOS 8 Stream

[James Szinger]

On Thu, 10 Dec 2020 16:08:09 -0300
Sergio Belkin  wrote:

> El jue, 10 dic 2020 a las 15:48, Kienker, Fred ()
> escribió:
> 
> > "It takes years to build a reputation and seconds to destroy it."
> >
> > -- Business 101 class
> >
> Fear not in DEVops world you can rebuild your reputation in one
> seconds using containers.  :-P

Except that there are no container images available for Stream. :(

(I am not complaining, just pointing out the irony.)

Seriously, many thanks to the CentOS team for their decades of fine
work.  CentOS as I know it is being discontinued and I will evaluate
Stream as its own product on its own merits.

Jim
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Re: [CentOS] Moving to CentOS 8 Stream

[Konstantin Boyandin via CentOS]

On 11.12.2020 02:08, Sergio Belkin wrote:
> El jue, 10 dic 2020 a las 15:48, Kienker, Fred ()
> escribió:
> 
>> "It takes years to build a reputation and seconds to destroy it."
>>
>> -- Business 101 class
>>
>>
> Fear not in DEVops world you can rebuild your reputation in one seconds
> using containers.  :-P

Reputation as a Service (RepaaS)?

Let's see whether RH has proper containers.
-- 
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Konstantin Boyandin
system administrator (ProWide Labs Ltd. - IPHost Network Monitor)
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Re: [CentOS] Moving to CentOS 8 Stream

[Sergio Belkin]

El jue, 10 dic 2020 a las 15:48, Kienker, Fred ()
escribió:

> "It takes years to build a reputation and seconds to destroy it."
>
> -- Business 101 class
>
>
Fear not in DEVops world you can rebuild your reputation in one seconds
using containers.  :-P


-- 
--
Sergio Belkin
LPIC-2 Certified - http://www.lpi.org
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Re: [CentOS] Moving to CentOS 8 Stream

[Kienker, Fred]

"It takes years to build a reputation and seconds to destroy it."

-- Business 101 class


Best regards, 
Fred
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Re: [CentOS] Moving to CentOS 8 Stream

[Pete Biggs]

Johnny -
Thanks for that.  It did mostly work - it wasn't keen on installing the
RPM you pointed to, but once it did the distro swap worked and the
system is now only using 8-stream as its repositories.

Thanks

P.




> sure .. you can manually add the one repo required to manually do the
> swap command ..
> 
> Or maybe just install this package and then remove the other one:
> 
> you want:
> 
> http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8-
stream/BaseOS/x86_64/os/Packages/centos-stream-repos-8-2.el8.noarch.rpm
> 
> installed first
> 
> Then remove centos-repos
> 
> Or you could manually create a CentOS-Stream-BaseOS.repo (you could
even
> name it test.repo and remove it later once switched)  this will work:
> 
> [baseos]
> name=CentOS Stream $releasever - BaseOS
>
mirrorlist=http://mirrorlist.centos.org/?release=$stream=$basearch
=BaseOS=$infra
>
#baseurl=http://mirror.centos.org/$contentdir/$stream/BaseOS/$basearch/
os/
> gpgcheck=1
> enabled=1
> gpgkey=file:///etc/pki/rpm-gpg/RPM-GPG-KEY-centosofficial
> 
> 
> in /etc/yum.repos.d/.repo
> 
> then once the distro-sync command works, remove 
> 
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Re: [CentOS] Moving to CentOS 8 Stream

[Alan Mead]

On 12/9/2020 1:43 PM, david wrote:
> CentOS Fans:
>
> I've spent hours yesterday and today reading the messages about the
> Centos 8 Stream, and expect to do it for the next few days also.  I
> would recommend that anyone contemplating some action, such as
> switching to a different distribution, advising your management to
> change, or similar, postpone that action for a while.  Let the dust
> settle, let the policy makers evaluate the comments, and watch for
> clarifications and/or modifications of the plan.
>
> For lack of a better date, I suggest waiting until the first business
> day of 2021 (Monday 04 January) before taking any significant actions.
>
> Personally, I've already invested some of my time incorporating CentOS
> 8.  I've also been working with Ubuntu since that seems to be the only
> way forward with Raspberry Pi and Apple/Intel machines, but I'll keep
> my CentOS 7/8 machines stable for this month at least.
>
> David

Agreed, time will tell. I, personally, think the technical quality of
streams is likely to be very high.

But I think that's the least concern. What we can decide today (without
putting much thought into it) is that we cannot rely upon CentOS to be
any particular thing. It's a brand and decisions will be made for us
about that brand by the people paying for the work, which is their
absolute right. But the "optics" of this look pretty bad. We've seen
distros perish, but they generally waste away from lack of interest.
Clearly, this isn't the case for CentOS.

I'm horrified by the people (none from CentOS, AFAICT) saying "CentOS
doesn't owe you [CentOS user] anything!" That's like saying my friend
doesn't owe me anything... Of course he doesn't, but it would be awfully
unfriendly of him to inform me that, going forward, I'm going to be
invoiced for our chats. If CentOS announced that it was too costly and
they needed donations, I'm sure people would be less distressed if
CentOS eventually died. This change seems far more mercenary. CentOS
doesn't "owe" me anything, but I don't "owe" the brand anything either
and I do have a strong preference for distros that seem free and
governed freely.

I really cannot get too excited that the CentOS brand will be even more
central to RHEL. I expect the new CentOS will be super-duper, but CentOS
as we knew it is being killed, and I'm sorry to see it go.

Someone has a petition to get CentOS to reconsider... What would it
matter if they do? Probably just in the velocity of people switching to
Oracle/Debian/Ubuntu/Windows/ETC? and in how fast some people switch to
streams or RHEL.

-Alan


-- 

Alan D. Mead, Ph.D.
President, Talent Algorithms Inc.

science + technology = better workers

http://www.alanmead.org

The irony of this ... is that the Internet is
both almost-infinitely expandable, while at the
same time constrained within its own pre-defined
box. And if that makes no sense to you, just
reflect on the existence of Facebook. We have
the vastness of the internet and yet billions
of people decided to spend most of them time
within a horribly designed, fake-news emporium
of a website that sucks every possible piece of
personal information out of you so it can sell it
to others. And they see nothing wrong with that.

-- Kieren McCarthy, commenting on why we are not 
all using IPv6

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Re: [CentOS] Moving to CentOS 8 Stream

[Ljubomir Ljubojevic]

TBD is only for ISO file. There is ISO for 8.1, just not for 8.2, and
there is even boot.iso for 8.2 for online install.

On 12/9/20 10:05 PM, Leon Fauster via CentOS wrote:
> Am 09.12.20 um 21:11 schrieb Ljubomir Ljubojevic:
>> Considering there is entire year until "CentOS Linux 8" is EOL, and few
>> years until "CentOS Linux 7" is eol, I agree there is no rush to switch.
>>
>> I will use next 12 months to test Springdale Linux (ex PUIAS Linux) and
>> wait and see what comes out of "Rocky Linux" startup that has started
>> today (they already have skeleton of the team assembled and are talking
>> about infrastructure) and if both of those fail to work out, last few
>> months of 2021 I will learn from colleagues about Debian.
> 
> As Springdale already a 8-branch? Website shows "TBD" ...
> 
> -- 
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> 
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Re: [CentOS] Moving to CentOS 8 Stream

[Leon Fauster via CentOS]

Am 09.12.20 um 21:11 schrieb Ljubomir Ljubojevic:

Considering there is entire year until "CentOS Linux 8" is EOL, and few
years until "CentOS Linux 7" is eol, I agree there is no rush to switch.

I will use next 12 months to test Springdale Linux (ex PUIAS Linux) and
wait and see what comes out of "Rocky Linux" startup that has started
today (they already have skeleton of the team assembled and are talking
about infrastructure) and if both of those fail to work out, last few
months of 2021 I will learn from colleagues about Debian.


As Springdale already a 8-branch? Website shows "TBD" ...

--
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Re: [CentOS] Moving to CentOS 8 Stream

[Johnny Hughes]

On 12/9/20 11:29 AM, Pete Biggs wrote:
> On Wed, 2020-12-09 at 11:00 -0600, Johnny Hughes wrote:
>>
>> Put this line :
>>
>> dnf swap centos-{linux,stream}-repos
>>
>> after
>>
>> dnf install centos-release-stream
>>
> 
> Is there away to recover the system I tried it on - if I run that
> command now I get 
> 
>No match for argument: centos-stream-repos
>Error: Unable to find a match: centos-stream-repos
>
> If I try to install centos-release-stream I get 
> 
>Package centos-stream-release-8.4-1.el8.noarch is already installed.
> 
> I can't remove it because it would result in removing a protected
> package.
> 
> Oh well, a wipe and re-install tomorrow probably.
> 
> P.
> 

sure .. you can manually add the one repo required to manually do the
swap command ..

Or maybe just install this package and then remove the other one:

you want:

http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8-stream/BaseOS/x86_64/os/Packages/centos-stream-repos-8-2.el8.noarch.rpm

installed first

Then remove centos-repos

Or you could manually create a CentOS-Stream-BaseOS.repo (you could even
name it test.repo and remove it later once switched)  this will work:

[baseos]
name=CentOS Stream $releasever - BaseOS
mirrorlist=http://mirrorlist.centos.org/?release=$stream=$basearch=BaseOS=$infra
#baseurl=http://mirror.centos.org/$contentdir/$stream/BaseOS/$basearch/os/
gpgcheck=1
enabled=1
gpgkey=file:///etc/pki/rpm-gpg/RPM-GPG-KEY-centosofficial


in /etc/yum.repos.d/.repo

then once the distro-sync command works, remove 

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Re: [CentOS] Moving to CentOS 8 Stream

[Ljubomir Ljubojevic]

Considering there is entire year until "CentOS Linux 8" is EOL, and few
years until "CentOS Linux 7" is eol, I agree there is no rush to switch.

I will use next 12 months to test Springdale Linux (ex PUIAS Linux) and
wait and see what comes out of "Rocky Linux" startup that has started
today (they already have skeleton of the team assembled and are talking
about infrastructure) and if both of those fail to work out, last few
months of 2021 I will learn from colleagues about Debian.

P.S. Do not expect money-grabing top of Red Hat to change
"get-rich-fast" scheme, I don't... their funeral.



On 12/9/20 8:43 PM, david wrote:
> 
> Hours of reading
> 
> 
> 
> CentOS Fans:
> 
> I've spent hours yesterday and today reading the messages about the
> Centos 8 Stream, and expect to do it for the next few days also.  I
> would recommend that anyone contemplating some action, such as switching
> to a different distribution, advising your management to change, or
> similar, postpone that action for a while.  Let the dust settle, let the
> policy makers evaluate the comments, and watch for clarifications and/or
> modifications of the plan.
> 
> For lack of a better date, I suggest waiting until the first business
> day of 2021 (Monday 04 January) before taking any significant actions.
> 
> Personally, I've already invested some of my time incorporating CentOS
> 8.  I've also been working with Ubuntu since that seems to be the only
> way forward with Raspberry Pi and Apple/Intel machines, but I'll keep my
> CentOS 7/8 machines stable for this month at least.
> 
> David
> 
>  -
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Re: [CentOS] Moving to CentOS 8 Stream

[Phelps, Matthew]

On Wed, Dec 9, 2020 at 2:46 PM david  wrote:

> 
> Hours of reading
> 
>
>
> CentOS Fans:
>
> I've spent hours yesterday and today reading the messages about the
> Centos 8 Stream, and expect to do it for the next few days also.  I
> would recommend that anyone contemplating some action, such as
> switching to a different distribution, advising your management to
> change, or similar, postpone that action for a while.  Let the dust
> settle, let the policy makers evaluate the comments, and watch for
> clarifications and/or modifications of the plan.
>
> For lack of a better date, I suggest waiting until the first business
> day of 2021 (Monday 04 January) before taking any significant actions.
>
> Personally, I've already invested some of my time incorporating
> CentOS 8.  I've also been working with Ubuntu since that seems to be
> the only way forward with Raspberry Pi and Apple/Intel machines, but
> I'll keep my CentOS 7/8 machines stable for this month at least.
>
> David
>
>


Do you speak on behalf of RedHat officially?

If not, I'll continue to plan to ditch them accordingly.

-- 

*Matt Phelps*

*Information Technology Specialist, Systems Administrator*

(Computation Facility, Smithsonian Astrophysical Observatory)

Center for Astrophysics | Harvard & Smithsonian


60 Garden Street | MS 39 | Cambridge, MA 02138
email: mphe...@cfa.harvard.edu


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 | YouTube 
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Re: [CentOS] Moving to CentOS 8 Stream

[david]

Hours of reading



CentOS Fans:

I've spent hours yesterday and today reading the messages about the 
Centos 8 Stream, and expect to do it for the next few days also.  I 
would recommend that anyone contemplating some action, such as 
switching to a different distribution, advising your management to 
change, or similar, postpone that action for a while.  Let the dust 
settle, let the policy makers evaluate the comments, and watch for 
clarifications and/or modifications of the plan.


For lack of a better date, I suggest waiting until the first business 
day of 2021 (Monday 04 January) before taking any significant actions.


Personally, I've already invested some of my time incorporating 
CentOS 8.  I've also been working with Ubuntu since that seems to be 
the only way forward with Raspberry Pi and Apple/Intel machines, but 
I'll keep my CentOS 7/8 machines stable for this month at least.


David

 - 


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Re: [CentOS] Moving to CentOS 8 Stream

[Pete Biggs]

On Wed, 2020-12-09 at 11:00 -0600, Johnny Hughes wrote:
> 
> Put this line :
> 
> dnf swap centos-{linux,stream}-repos
> 
> after
> 
> dnf install centos-release-stream
> 

Is there away to recover the system I tried it on - if I run that
command now I get 

   No match for argument: centos-stream-repos
   Error: Unable to find a match: centos-stream-repos
   
If I try to install centos-release-stream I get 

   Package centos-stream-release-8.4-1.el8.noarch is already installed.

I can't remove it because it would result in removing a protected
package.

Oh well, a wipe and re-install tomorrow probably.

P.


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Re: [CentOS] Moving to CentOS 8 Stream

[Johnny Hughes]

On 12/9/20 8:01 AM, Pete Biggs wrote:
> 
> It's got to be done, so may as well test it ...
> 
> The FAQ says to do:
> 
>dnf install centos-release-stream
>dnf distro-sync
>
> This I did and everything went fine. I checked before doing the distro-
> sync and there was a load of new Stream repos in /etc/yum.repos.d
> 
> Rebooted the machine and dnf has gone back to only looking in 8.3, and
> the stream repos had disappeared.
> 
> Looking in the logs I can see this:
> 
> 2020-12-09T12:28:42Z DEBUG ---> Package centos-stream-release.noarch 
> 8.4-1.el8 will be installed
> 2020-12-09T12:28:42Z DEBUG ---> Package centos-linux-release.noarch 
> 8.3-1.2011.el8 will be obsoleted
> 2020-12-09T12:28:42Z DEBUG ---> Package centos-release-stream.x86_64 
> 8.1-1.1911.0.7.el8 will be obsoleted
> 
> and 
> 
> Installing:
>  centos-stream-release  noarch 8.4-1.el8  
>Stream-BaseOS 21 k
>  replacing  centos-linux-release.noarch 8.3-1.2011.el8
>  replacing  centos-release-stream.x86_64 8.1-1.1911.0.7.el8
> 
> The centos-stream-release RPM does not contain any repo information,
> that was all in centos-release-stream that has been removed. So stream
> has deleted itself.
> 
> It's not a good start.
> 
> I also can't seem to get back to a sensible system and have now got a
> system with a mixture of CentOS 8 and CentOS 8 Stream RPMs with no way
> of installing the Stream repos from an RPM.
> 
> I see that "subscription-manager" has been installed on this system now
> which it never was. Is CentOS also going to be part of that ecosystem
> as well?
> 
> Fortunately this was a throw-away install. I hope no one has tried the
> instructions in the FAQ on an important machine!
> 
>

Put this line :

dnf swap centos-{linux,stream}-repos

after

dnf install centos-release-stream



  (so make it the second command)

FAQ/SITE getting updated.
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Re: [CentOS] Moving to CentOS 8 Stream

[Tom Bishop]

On Wed, Dec 9, 2020 at 8:32 AM Pete Biggs  wrote:

> >
> > >
> > > I thought I saw a reply from Johnny that streams wasn't quite ready,
> maybe
> > > he will chime in but that's what I thought I saw in a response.
>
> What, in amongst the hundreds of messages, he said it wasn't ready!!
> Why publish a FAQ and a web page telling you how to migrate without a
> great big banner across it saying "don't rush, it's not ready yet". Or
> better, don't publish anything if the instructions don't work.
>
> Sheesh.
>
> P.
>
>
>
Here is the snippet that I saw but cannot find the original, underlined the
important bits that I saw...

On Tue, Dec 8, 2020, 22:58 Johnny Hughes  wrote:

> On 12/8/20 1:04 PM, Paul Heinlein wrote:
> > On Tue, 8 Dec 2020, Rich Bowen wrote:
> >
> >> The future of the CentOS Project is CentOS Stream, and over the next
> >> year we’ll be shifting focus from CentOS Linux, the rebuild of Red Hat
> >> Enterprise Linux (RHEL), to CentOS Stream, which tracks just ahead of
> >> a current RHEL release. CentOS Linux 8, as a rebuild of RHEL 8, will
> >> end at the end of 2021. CentOS Stream continues after that date,
> >> serving as the upstream (development) branch of Red Hat Enterprise
> Linux.
> >
> > I suppose I understand the negative feedback -- CentOS 8.x will no
> > longer be a rebuild of RHEL 8.x but will instead be some version of RHEL
> > 8.(x + 1) -- but I'm much more interested in empirical results than in
> > suppositions. I've taken a couple test VMs and set them to CentOS 8
> > Stream and will keep an eye on them. They will either prove stable or
> > not, but (observation > guessing) in my book.
> >
> > If history is any guide, they will prove very stable. If not, then I'll
> > pour one out for CentOS and look elsewhere.
> >
>
> Which is the approach I recommend everyone take.
>




*> And, it will likely be sometime mid to late 1st quarter 2021 before>
CentOS Stream is in its 'Fully Functional' state with community pull>
requests and the RHEL package maintainer doing all the work in
CentOS> Stream, etc .  CentOS Linux 8 will still be available and updated
until*
*> the end of December 2021. *
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Re: [CentOS] Moving to CentOS 8 Stream

[Johnny Hughes]

On 12/9/20 8:31 AM, Pete Biggs wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> I thought I saw a reply from Johnny that streams wasn't quite ready, maybe
>>> he will chime in but that's what I thought I saw in a response.
> 
> What, in amongst the hundreds of messages, he said it wasn't ready!!
> Why publish a FAQ and a web page telling you how to migrate without a
> great big banner across it saying "don't rush, it's not ready yet". Or
> better, don't publish anything if the instructions don't work.
> 
> 

It (Stream) works for me .. I currently use it on all my el8 machines.
I even have Plex Media Server installed on it with no issues.

I would recommend however, wait until the RHEL Engineers are the ones
doing the builds .. which will be sometime in Q1 2021.

I will do the conversion from CentOS Linux 8 to Stream (8.3.2011 .. so
make sure you are updated to latest before you start) and if it does not
work, I will make sure it does work ASAP.



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Re: [CentOS] Moving to CentOS 8 Stream

[Pete Biggs]

> 
> > 
> > I thought I saw a reply from Johnny that streams wasn't quite ready, maybe
> > he will chime in but that's what I thought I saw in a response.

What, in amongst the hundreds of messages, he said it wasn't ready!!
Why publish a FAQ and a web page telling you how to migrate without a
great big banner across it saying "don't rush, it's not ready yet". Or
better, don't publish anything if the instructions don't work.

Sheesh.

P.



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Re: [CentOS] Moving to CentOS 8 Stream

[J Martin Rushton via CentOS]

I thought I saw a reply from Johnny that streams wasn't quite ready, maybe
he will chime in but that's what I thought I saw in a response.

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Beta perhaps? :-o

--
J Martin Rushton MBCS
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Re: [CentOS] Moving to CentOS 8 Stream

[Tom Bishop]

On Wed, Dec 9, 2020, 8:01 AM Pete Biggs  wrote:

>
> It's got to be done, so may as well test it ...
>
> The FAQ says to do:
>
>dnf install centos-release-stream
>dnf distro-sync
>
> This I did and everything went fine. I checked before doing the distro-
> sync and there was a load of new Stream repos in /etc/yum.repos.d
>
> Rebooted the machine and dnf has gone back to only looking in 8.3, and
> the stream repos had disappeared.
>
> Looking in the logs I can see this:
>
> 2020-12-09T12:28:42Z DEBUG ---> Package centos-stream-release.noarch
> 8.4-1.el8 will be installed
> 2020-12-09T12:28:42Z DEBUG ---> Package centos-linux-release.noarch
> 8.3-1.2011.el8 will be obsoleted
> 2020-12-09T12:28:42Z DEBUG ---> Package centos-release-stream.x86_64
> 8.1-1.1911.0.7.el8 will be obsoleted
>
> and
>
> Installing:
>  centos-stream-release  noarch 8.4-1.el8
>Stream-BaseOS 21 k
>  replacing  centos-linux-release.noarch 8.3-1.2011.el8
>  replacing  centos-release-stream.x86_64 8.1-1.1911.0.7.el8
>
> The centos-stream-release RPM does not contain any repo information,
> that was all in centos-release-stream that has been removed. So stream
> has deleted itself.
>
> It's not a good start.
>
> I also can't seem to get back to a sensible system and have now got a
> system with a mixture of CentOS 8 and CentOS 8 Stream RPMs with no way
> of installing the Stream repos from an RPM.
>
> I see that "subscription-manager" has been installed on this system now
> which it never was. Is CentOS also going to be part of that ecosystem
> as well?
>
> Fortunately this was a throw-away install. I hope no one has tried the
> instructions in the FAQ on an important machine!
>
> P.
>
>
>
> ___
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> CentOS@centos.org
> https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
>

>
> I thought I saw a reply from Johnny that streams wasn't quite ready, maybe
> he will chime in but that's what I thought I saw in a response.
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[CentOS] Moving to CentOS 8 Stream

[Pete Biggs]

It's got to be done, so may as well test it ...

The FAQ says to do:

   dnf install centos-release-stream
   dnf distro-sync
   
This I did and everything went fine. I checked before doing the distro-
sync and there was a load of new Stream repos in /etc/yum.repos.d

Rebooted the machine and dnf has gone back to only looking in 8.3, and
the stream repos had disappeared.

Looking in the logs I can see this:

2020-12-09T12:28:42Z DEBUG ---> Package centos-stream-release.noarch 8.4-1.el8 
will be installed
2020-12-09T12:28:42Z DEBUG ---> Package centos-linux-release.noarch 
8.3-1.2011.el8 will be obsoleted
2020-12-09T12:28:42Z DEBUG ---> Package centos-release-stream.x86_64 
8.1-1.1911.0.7.el8 will be obsoleted

and 

Installing:
 centos-stream-release  noarch 8.4-1.el8
 Stream-BaseOS 21 k
 replacing  centos-linux-release.noarch 8.3-1.2011.el8
 replacing  centos-release-stream.x86_64 8.1-1.1911.0.7.el8

The centos-stream-release RPM does not contain any repo information,
that was all in centos-release-stream that has been removed. So stream
has deleted itself.

It's not a good start.

I also can't seem to get back to a sensible system and have now got a
system with a mixture of CentOS 8 and CentOS 8 Stream RPMs with no way
of installing the Stream repos from an RPM.

I see that "subscription-manager" has been installed on this system now
which it never was. Is CentOS also going to be part of that ecosystem
as well?

Fortunately this was a throw-away install. I hope no one has tried the
instructions in the FAQ on an important machine!

P.



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