Re: [CentOS] A new blog on the block for Linux newbies
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote / napísal(a): Spiro Harvey, Knossos Networks Ltd scribbled on Wednesday, September 03, 2008 11:13 PM: 2) Why can you possibly help if you yourself are a newbie? It's just the blind leading the blind. I've noticed that sometimes only a not-so-new-newbie can help another newbie. A pro can sometimes not see the problem from the newbies perspective, or relate even, for the reason he or she *is* a pro and passed the obstacles years ago. Get my drift? Absolute true, but very often newbie ever if find/detect the problem give stupid/dangerous/senseless solution/idea. SO maybe there should be some balance and cooperation :-) ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] A new blog on the block for Linux newbies
Romeo Ninov a écrit : Absolute true, but very often newbie ever if find/detect the problem give stupid/dangerous/senseless solution/idea. Reminds me of what happens in Ubuntu forums and the likes on a daily basis. User A: Help! 3D acceleration doesn't work! Compiz no works! User B: Try to reinstall your system. User A: I did what you said, but it still doesn't work! User C: You must recompile your kernel I think. User A: What does recompile mean? I'm sure Eugene Ionesco would have enjoyed these forums :oD Cheers, Niki Kovacs ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
RE: [CentOS] A new blog on the block for Linux newbies
Romeo Ninov scribbled on Thursday, September 04, 2008 10:36 AM: 2) Why can you possibly help if you yourself are a newbie? It's just the blind leading the blind. I've noticed that sometimes only a not-so-new-newbie can help another newbie. A pro can sometimes not see the problem from the newbies perspective, or relate even, for the reason he or she *is* a pro and passed the obstacles years ago. Get my drift? Absolute true, but very often newbie ever if find/detect the problem give stupid/dangerous/senseless solution/idea. SO maybe there should be some balance and cooperation :-) Definitely! Cut them some slack, we've all been there at one point or other. 8-) smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] A new blog on the block for Linux newbies
On Thursday 04 September 2008 10:03:50 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Romeo Ninov scribbled on Thursday, September 04, 2008 10:36 AM: 2) Why can you possibly help if you yourself are a newbie? It's just the blind leading the blind. I've noticed that sometimes only a not-so-new-newbie can help another newbie. A pro can sometimes not see the problem from the newbies perspective, or relate even, for the reason he or she *is* a pro and passed the obstacles years ago. Get my drift? Absolute true, but very often newbie ever if find/detect the problem give stupid/dangerous/senseless solution/idea. SO maybe there should be some balance and cooperation :-) Definitely! Cut them some slack, we've all been there at one point or other. 8-) It's good that a newbie wants to help other newbies. As for the quality of information, I've seen people who have several years of experience give advice that was true years ago but completely wrong now. A newbie basing his information on what he learned as working for him will at least be up to date. Anne signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] A new blog on the block for Linux newbies
Anne Wilson wrote / napísal(a): On Thursday 04 September 2008 10:03:50 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Romeo Ninov scribbled on Thursday, September 04, 2008 10:36 AM: 2) Why can you possibly help if you yourself are a newbie? It's just the blind leading the blind. I've noticed that sometimes only a not-so-new-newbie can help another newbie. A pro can sometimes not see the problem from the newbies perspective, or relate even, for the reason he or she *is* a pro and passed the obstacles years ago. Get my drift? Absolute true, but very often newbie ever if find/detect the problem give stupid/dangerous/senseless solution/idea. SO maybe there should be some balance and cooperation :-) Definitely! Cut them some slack, we've all been there at one point or other. 8-) It's good that a newbie wants to help other newbies. As for the quality of information, I've seen people who have several years of experience give advice that was true years ago but completely wrong now. A newbie basing his information on what he learned as working for him will at least be up to date. Anne, that's true too, but usually information and experience of newbie ever it is contemporary is not enough for resolve mid or high complexity problems. The only advantage will be for some very general notes and suggestions. And ever in this case the advise can be wrong or useless (as example - filesystems sizing) ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] A new blog on the block for Linux newbies
On Thursday 04 September 2008 10:30:41 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ok, so this list should be kept a bit more professional than the others. I might be touching the zealot/religious angle here. 8-) My opinion is that Ubuntu is to linux what etch-a-sketch is to personal computers. Sort of. ;-) And my opinion is that knocking other distros is not a professional attitude. Anne signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] A new blog on the block for Linux newbies
On Thursday 04 September 2008 10:22:11 Romeo Ninov wrote: It's good that a newbie wants to help other newbies. As for the quality of information, I've seen people who have several years of experience give advice that was true years ago but completely wrong now. A newbie basing his information on what he learned as working for him will at least be up to date. Anne, that's true too, but usually information and experience of newbie ever it is contemporary is not enough for resolve mid or high complexity problems. The only advantage will be for some very general notes and suggestions. And ever in this case the advise can be wrong or useless (as example - filesystems sizing) Mid or high complexity problems are not likely to be covered in such a site, though, are they? And the advice is no more likely to be wrong than much advice I've seen from seasoned linuxers. The big problem is that it takes a while for users to get to know which particular advisors to believe. On one high-volume list I read I would never follow three quarters of the advice I see there (and no, it's not a ubuntu list), whereas there are maybe half a dozen contributors that I would trust utterly. The newbie doesn't know that. Meanwhile, hostile reception of well-meaning efforts does put off a great many newbies, which is a real shame. Anne signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
RE: [CentOS] A new blog on the block for Linux newbies
Anne Wilson scribbled on Thursday, September 04, 2008 11:39 AM: On Thursday 04 September 2008 10:30:41 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ok, so this list should be kept a bit more professional than the others. I might be touching the zealot/religious angle here. 8-) My opinion is that Ubuntu is to linux what etch-a-sketch is to personal computers. Sort of. ;-) And my opinion is that knocking other distros is not a professional attitude. Perhaps not. I felt this discussion needed some lightening up though. 8-) smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
RE: [CentOS] A new blog on the block for Linux newbies
Anne Wilson scribbled on Thursday, September 04, 2008 11:44 AM: Meanwhile, hostile reception of well-meaning efforts does put off a great many newbies, which is a real shame. Well said! (That's what I was trying to say initially but didn't quite succeed.) smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] A new blog on the block for Linux newbies
Anne Wilson a écrit : Meanwhile, hostile reception of well-meaning efforts does put off a great many newbies, which is a real shame. I wouldn't call it hostility. More in the sense of a polite - and sane - scepticism. There's a French saying which may illustrate this: Hell is paved with good intentions. Aside, slightly OT: I share my time between working as a (100% GNU/Linux) sysadmin and working as a journalist for various IT magazines. I just signed a contract with the biggest french computer book editor, for a series of two computer books about Linux, a bit in the vein of Carla Schroder's and Michael Stutz' cookbook approach. Aim: take the newbie by the hand and teach him - or her - what (s)he has to know, step by step. All the practical examples (recipes) in the book, basic as well as advanced concepts, desktop and server configurations, will be based on CentOS 5. Preview of coming attractions (scheduled for Feb 2009): www.kikinovak.net/download/LinuxAuxPetitsOignons.pdf (french) www.kikinovak.net/download/Captures.tar.gz So, to answer the question above: IMNSHO, the best advice comes from an expert who *can* think like a newbie. (At work, I usually deal with the opposite paradigm :oD) Cheers, Niki ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
RE: [CentOS] A new blog on the block for Linux newbies
Niki Kovacs scribbled on Thursday, September 04, 2008 12:16 PM: So, to answer the question above: IMNSHO, the best advice comes from an expert who *can* think like a newbie. (At work, I usually deal with the opposite paradigm :oD) There is no more dangerous user than a user that knows *a little* about computers and who tries to fix stuff for himself (it's usually a he). Every now and then I get a few of those users at the departments I support, and I make a point of usually taking them down to the ground again as fast as I can. As a sysadmin I'm not only helping users with everything IT, I also help them accept things they can't change. 8-) -- Best Wishes Sorin - http://home-skynet.servehttp.com/ Proud member of TEAM OS/2. Mountainbiker [Kona Kilauea - Member of Equipe Les Cafards VTT] Motorcyclist [Honda VFR750F-'97] MCSE, MCP+I, MCP, A+ [Knowledge is power!] - () ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail /\ MotD: Those of you that think you know everything, are annoying to those of us that do. smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] A new blog on the block for Linux newbies
On Thu, Sep 4, 2008 at 5:59 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Anne Wilson scribbled on Thursday, September 04, 2008 11:44 AM: Meanwhile, hostile reception of well-meaning efforts does put off a great many newbies, which is a real shame. Well said! (That's what I was trying to say initially but didn't quite succeed.) Pffft. n00b. :-P /always one to throw gas on a fire :-) -- During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act. George Orwell ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] A new blog on the block for Linux newbies
On Thu, Sep 4, 2008 at 4:08 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Niki Kovacs scribbled on Thursday, September 04, 2008 12:16 PM: So, to answer the question above: IMNSHO, the best advice comes from an expert who *can* think like a newbie. (At work, I usually deal with the opposite paradigm :oD) There is no more dangerous user than a user that knows *a little* about computers and who tries to fix stuff for himself (it's usually a he). Every now and then I get a few of those users at the departments I support, and I make a point of usually taking them down to the ground again as fast as I can. : MotD: Those of you that think you know everything, are annoying to those of us that do. IMVMHO, having been brand new to CentOS but a long time Linux user and sometimes administrator, delving into the depths of the kernel, returning to the Linux email list world (as an idiot AND a newbie) and now charged in part with porting a major real-life real-time app from FC1 to CentOS, my best advice for newbies of all stripes would be this: RTFM, then read everything else you can find, and remember, Google is your friend. Subscribe to one or more email lists based on what you found in your extensive reading (see above) AND READ at least long enough to learn how to post, whom to trust, who the curmudgeons are (no, kidding on that last one!), etc. (I.e., read some more.) ONLY when all else fails, ask (nicely) on a list where you have some idea how to post and whom to trust in response. Oh, yeah, and avoid pretentious signatures, even if they contain your real job title - they just piss off the people whose answers you really need. (Yes, I am speaking from first hand experience on all of the above. Most of you already know that ;^) Now, if there was a web site that said all of that and nothing else, that would be perfect for newbies (and newbies who think they are not). mhr (IMVMHO: In my very much humbled opinion,...) ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
RE: [CentOS] A new blog on the block for Linux newbies
MHR wrote: IMVMHO, having been brand new to CentOS but a long time Linux user and sometimes administrator, delving into the depths of the kernel, returning to the Linux email list world (as an idiot AND a newbie) and now charged in part with porting a major real-life real-time app from FC1 to CentOS, my best advice for newbies of all stripes would be this: RTFM, then read everything else you can find, and remember, Google is your friend. Subscribe to one or more email lists based on what you found in your extensive reading (see above) AND READ at least long enough to learn how to post, whom to trust, who the curmudgeons are (no, kidding on that last one!), etc. (I.e., read some more.) LEARN 'man', 'apropos' and 'info' they are almost always there in every system and they hold the knowledge of the OS. Start with 'man man' and know the help system inside and out because after 15+ years working in Unix/Linux environments a day doesn't go by where I don't hit at least 1 man page and knowing how to flip through it to the parts you want will save you untold time. Oh and don't forget virtualization is your friend in learning! VMware workstation, Parallels, Virtual Box, Xen, Hyper-V, they're all good for learning! Create a VM per-distro, see how each distro installs, see how each is managed. Take snapshots and play around with their configs, see how they break, see if you can fix them, if not revert to the snapshot. Get your feet wet. -Ross __ This e-mail, and any attachments thereto, is intended only for use by the addressee(s) named herein and may contain legally privileged and/or confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail, and any attachments thereto, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please immediately notify the sender and permanently delete the original and any copy or printout thereof. ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] A new blog on the block for Linux newbies
On Thu, 2008-09-04 at 12:15 +0200, Niki Kovacs wrote: So, to answer the question above: IMNSHO, the best advice comes from an expert who *can* think like a newbie. (At work, I usually deal with the opposite paradigm :oD) That is the Super User. Someone much more advanced than your usual user, but clearly not a kernel developer. grins Ric -- My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say: There are two Great Sins in the world... ..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity. Only the former may be overcome. R.I.P. Dad. Linux user# 44256 Sign up at: http://counter.li.org/ https://nuoar.dev.java.net/ Verizon Cell # 336-254-1339 ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] A new blog on the block for Linux newbies
Ross S. W. Walker wrote:
[snip good advice]
Oh and don't forget virtualization is your friend in learning!
VMware workstation, Parallels, Virtual Box, Xen, Hyper-V, they're
all good for learning!
Create a VM per-distro, see how each distro installs, see how each
is managed. Take snapshots and play around with their configs, see
how they break, see if you can fix them, if not revert to the
snapshot. Get your feet wet.
May I suggest that, if you really want to learn how a Linux
system gets put together, and works, then get a copy of
Linux from Scratch and build your own?
http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/
Mike
--
p=p=%c%s%c;main(){printf(p,34,p,34);};main(){printf(p,34,p,34);}
Oppose globalization and One World Governments like the UN.
This message made from 100% recycled bits.
You have found the bank of Larn.
I speak only for myself, and I am unanimous in that!
___
CentOS mailing list
CentOS@centos.org
http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
RE: [CentOS] A new blog on the block for Linux newbies
Mike McCarty wrote: Ross S. W. Walker wrote: [snip good advice] Oh and don't forget virtualization is your friend in learning! VMware workstation, Parallels, Virtual Box, Xen, Hyper-V, they're all good for learning! Create a VM per-distro, see how each distro installs, see how each is managed. Take snapshots and play around with their configs, see how they break, see if you can fix them, if not revert to the snapshot. Get your feet wet. May I suggest that, if you really want to learn how a Linux system gets put together, and works, then get a copy of Linux from Scratch and build your own? http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/ Well for a newbie that might be too much to start with. I'd probably go, CentOS/RHEL/Suse - Gentoo, then if you know the parts of a working distro well, then try to roll your own. -Ross __ This e-mail, and any attachments thereto, is intended only for use by the addressee(s) named herein and may contain legally privileged and/or confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail, and any attachments thereto, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please immediately notify the sender and permanently delete the original and any copy or printout thereof. ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] A new blog on the block for Linux newbies
--- On Wed, 3/9/08, Sadaruwan Samaraweera [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Sadaruwan Samaraweera [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [CentOS] A new blog on the block for Linux newbies To: CentOS mailing list centos@centos.org Date: Wednesday, 3 September, 2008, 9:08 AM Hi Good People, I've created a blog to help newbies in the world of Linux. Can you people see it and tell what departments that I've to improve more to help the grate community of Linux. Please click this link to go to my blog http://slinuxworld.blogspot.com/ Thank you -- Sadaruwan Samaraweera -- Sadaruwan Samaraweera ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos How are you helping newbies? There is no structure at all. Thanks! Josh ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
RE: [CentOS] A new blog on the block for Linux newbies
On Thu, 2008-09-04 at 15:34 -0400, Ross S. W. Walker wrote: Mike McCarty wrote: snip May I suggest that, if you really want to learn how a Linux system gets put together, and works, then get a copy of Linux from Scratch and build your own? http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/ Well for a newbie that might be too much to start with. Actually, it's better than one might think for a noob aspiring to become more knowledgeable. 1. Brief discussions of why most things are done: gives insight to underlying components. 2. IIRC, every command is laid out in form useful for CP, allowing focus on discussions, not on handling a keyboard. 3. If you have natural curiosity to learn, introduces a bunch of little frequently used utils of which a noob might be ignorant. 4. Gets a good overview of bash introduced. 5. Has *lots* of follow-on possibilities: BLFS, CLFS, ... that continue to expand on the base knowledge. 6. Likely to severely test the mettle and commitment of those who are just wannabe icons to those around them. 7. Makes them really, really appreciate an enterprise distro like CentOS with its yum, rpm package management, broader support network in the community, ... I could go on. 8. (The best one yet?) Gets them at least some basic knowledge before they appear on lists like this with no knowledge, high ambition and tons of the most basic questions. Keeps them busy for awhile too! :) I'd probably go, CentOS/RHEL/Suse - Gentoo, then if you know the parts of a working distro well, then try to roll your own. That's a natural since LFS requires an existing base installation to do LFS. Ubuntu is missing gawk though (has mawk?) and generally needs to be enhanced a tad to finish the LFS install. Another day for the noob, another plus! ;-) -Ross snip sig stuff -- Bill ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] A new blog on the block for Linux newbies
Sadaruwan Samaraweera wrote / napísal(a): Hi Good People, I've created a blog to help newbies in the world of Linux. Can you people see it and tell what departments that I've to improve more to help the grate community of Linux. Please click this link to go to my blog http://slinuxworld.blogspot.com/ Thank you -- Sadaruwan Samaraweera Looks interest, but it is only collection of links everyone can find using search engine. For ne one helpful blog should add some value to the community as personal articles, ever comments ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] A new blog on the block for Linux newbies
On Wed, Sep 3, 2008 at 2:55 PM, Romeo Ninov [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sadaruwan Samaraweera wrote / napísal(a): Hi Good People, I've created a blog to help newbies in the world of Linux. Can you people see it and tell what departments that I've to improve more to help the grate community of Linux. Please click this link to go to my blog http://slinuxworld.blogspot.com/ Thank you -- Sadaruwan Samaraweera Looks interest, but it is only collection of links everyone can find using search engine. For ne one helpful blog should add some value to the community as personal articles, ever comments ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos Thx, I need more feed back like this so I can add more value to the blog. -- Sadaruwan Samaraweera ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] A new blog on the block for Linux newbies
On Wed, Sep 03, 2008 at 03:01:29PM +0530, Sadaruwan Samaraweera wrote: ... Thx, I need more feed back like this so I can add more value to the blog. Sadaruwan, please TRIM your replies! -- Tru Huynh (mirrors, CentOS-3 i386/x86_64 Package Maintenance) http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=getsearch=0xBEFA581B pgpOkNKe2MCzX.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] A new blog on the block for Linux newbies
On Wed, 2008-09-03 at 12:54 +0200, Tru Huynh wrote: On Wed, Sep 03, 2008 at 03:01:29PM +0530, Sadaruwan Samaraweera wrote: ... Thx, I need more feed back like this so I can add more value to the blog. Sadaruwan, please TRIM your replies! In fact, the first thing in your blog might be a direct mention of the most commonly violated e-mail list courtesies and a link to a couple more comprehensive discourses. Writing about something often reinforces one's own memory. snip sig stuff -- Bill (the other one :-) ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] A new blog on the block for Linux newbies
Sadaruwan Samaraweera a écrit : Hi Good People, I've created a blog to help newbies in the world of Linux. Can you people see it and tell what departments that I've to improve Switch your mail client from HTML to plain text? ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] A new blog on the block for Linux newbies
I've created a blog to help newbies in the world of Linux. Can you people see it and tell what departments that I've to improve more to help the grate community of Linux. 1) The world has plenty of sites already catering to linux newbies. I just googled linux for newbies and got 330,000 results. 2) Why can you possibly help if you yourself are a newbie? It's just the blind leading the blind. 3) Your difficulty in grasping simple concepts like how to write an email reaffirms point 2 in my mind. 4) Your grasp of the English language is at best mediocre. This will add another barrier to conveying information to newbies. my recommendation is that you forget your website and devote that time into learning linux better yourself. Spend time on various forums, and read read read. A final point I'll note is that this is a CentOS list, aimed at helping people with CentOS. It's not a place to spam with ads for your website unless they are CentOS specific. -- Spiro Harvey Knossos Networks Ltd 021-295-1923www.knossos.net.nz ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
