Re: Honest question about cfform
One of the many applications I inherited and support uses CFFORM exclusively throughout it. I know a number of other applications at that same business are just like that but those are handled by offshore folks and I am 99.9% certain they have not deviated from using it since they more or less just keep the things running now that original developer is long gone. Here in recent weeks the one I support started showing an issue with bind being used between some CFSELECTS and to make AJAX calls, it was exposed when someone updated their Firefox browser. That place really is almost exclusively an IE shop so no telling how long the issue had been there. I got it fixed the morning I was made aware of it and it worked from in Chrome, Firefox and IE for me and from all of my machines. Within a couple of days just one single IE user started having an issue. At that point I decided why should I bother with trying to get this working when I know I can rewrite it using JQuery and be done with the issues. Now I left CFFORM in those few spots and still is being used for required fields, I simply stripped out the binding and redid that with JQuery. But one could run into similar issues using some old JS library for what ever in their application and as browsers update they may find the applications broken in spots. I do not really see a problem with using CFFORM just like anything else out there it will have its places it is a non issue to use and then places it just is the wrong tool for the job. With that said I do not use it on anything I make but not because of any distaste for it but because I just have my own ways to tackle things and those ways work the most efficiently for me. Kind of like CFUPDATE that I saw mentioned to never use. Truthfully I forgot that one even existed until a year or so ago when a friend of mine made a small Intranet RMA application for his work. That guy knows nothing about CF or really any programming. He came to me with some question and when I looked through the code I saw that getting used and I remember one of his problems was how to update a column where no form field with that name was being passed in, simple enough just do a cfset form.colName = whatever /. That friend of mine used a lot of the built in things to CF that so many say not to use in online communities. At the end of it all he got something working almost 100% with zero knowledge of programming and via bouncing ideas off me we got it to 100% and is still in use to this day. -- Admiral Aaron Rouse http://www.happyhacker.com/ On Tue, Mar 4, 2014 at 8:11 PM, Gerald Guido gerald.gu...@gmail.com wrote: Thank you all for taking the time to answer. It has been most enlightening.I must say that assumptions made were more interesting than the answers themselves. G! -- Gerald Guido Twitter https://twitter.com/CozmoTrouble Blarg http://www.myinternetisbroken.com Facebook https://www.facebook.com/gerald.guido.9 On Tue, Mar 4, 2014 at 12:35 PM, Raymond Camden raymondcam...@gmail.com wrote: And btw - don't forget - there is a whole project dedicated to helping you replace these items. (So instead of just saying Dont Do X, we can do Do This) - https://github.com/cfjedimaster/ColdFusion-UI-the-Right-Way On Tue, Mar 4, 2014 at 11:25 AM, Jochem van Dieten joch...@gmail.com wrote: On Mar 4, 2014 5:40 AM, Gerald Guido wrote: Why are people so vehemently opposed so to CFForm? Because it will only get you so far. And once you want to go further, you'll find that you can't. So then you have to go back, rip out cfform and replace it with something else. At which point you will discover that whatever skills you learned using cfform are useless because they don't transfer to other form frameworks. All of this is just fine if you know it beforehand and plan for it. But at the same time you are developing your cfform project, the rest of the world is moving forward. And I am guessing too many of us got burned when a project initially was fine with cfform, but then the requirements changed and it wasn't anymore Additionally I suspect plain old snobbery: it is not a technologically good solution, therefore it can never be a good solution from an ROI perspective. Jochem ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:357910 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: Honest question about cfform
Gerald, I used to use CFFORM, and it quickly got outdated as HTML and CSS and Javascript and jquery moved on. These days HTML5 is the go with CSS3. CFFORM doesnt produce those. Therefore things like client side validation, placeholder text, cross-browser issues, mobile devices are all possible but much more difficult to allow for with CFFORM than with the newer HTML5/CSS3 approach. Those new features are all built in with the new HTML5/CSS3 approach. Believe me, you'll get a much better result if you go to the trouble of converting to HTML/CSS3. You will have more control over the displayed result, you'll have better client-side scripting with inbuilt html features and jquery and the resulting form on a mobile device will be a far better product. As I said, I used to use CFFORM and at the time, it seemed like the bees knees. But now it just seems SOO old fashioned. I inherited a site that had CFFORM and the java applets all over it (CFGRID etc) and it pretty soon showed that it was a nightmare to do updates on, and as more and more of our users wanted to use devices that didnt have flash and java on them, we got more and more problems. It soon proved that we needed to change to a pure HTML/CSS3/jquery approach for all client-side stuff, leaving ColdFusion to handle the backend server-side stuff, which is where CFML really struts its stuff and knocks everything else out of the park. (Sorry about the mixed metaphor!) Cheers Mike Kear Windsor, NSW, Australia Adobe Certified Advanced ColdFusion Developer AFP Webworks http://afpwebworks.com ColdFusion Enterprise, PHP, ASP, ASP.NET hosting from AUD$15/month On Tue, Mar 4, 2014 at 5:26 PM, Wil Genovese jugg...@trunkful.com wrote: There is always better ways to do things than using the client side CF code. I have not looked at the output of CFFORM JavaScript in ages, but if it has not been updated at all there's a good chance it's not fully compatible with today's browsers. There are also form validation frameworks. One that I know of is ValidateThis http://www.validatethis.org/ I'm not sure if this will work in your case. It's worth at least looking into it. There are options and most will be better than CFFORM. Regards, Wil Genovese Sr. Web Application Developer/ Systems Administrator CF Webtools www.cfwebtools.com wilg...@trunkful.com www.trunkful. ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:357829 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: Honest question about cfform
The cfide has caused so many security issues that it is best to simply avoid using it all and do not even have it in your site. The other issue is that you are reliant on this virtual dir. I have seen many customers who were oblivious to this requirement when they moved their hosting and as a result all their form validation on their site was broken since day 1. I have seen customers run for years like this and ended up forms being used for spam and websites defaced as a result. The results ptoduced by cfform are also generally considered poor and bloated. It is best to use code and libraries that are part of your site and can be easily updated. Russ Michaels www.michaels.me.uk cfmldeveloper.com cflive.net cfsearch.com On 4 Mar 2014 09:06, Mike K afpwebwo...@gmail.com wrote: Gerald, I used to use CFFORM, and it quickly got outdated as HTML and CSS and Javascript and jquery moved on. These days HTML5 is the go with CSS3. CFFORM doesnt produce those. Therefore things like client side validation, placeholder text, cross-browser issues, mobile devices are all possible but much more difficult to allow for with CFFORM than with the newer HTML5/CSS3 approach. Those new features are all built in with the new HTML5/CSS3 approach. Believe me, you'll get a much better result if you go to the trouble of converting to HTML/CSS3. You will have more control over the displayed result, you'll have better client-side scripting with inbuilt html features and jquery and the resulting form on a mobile device will be a far better product. As I said, I used to use CFFORM and at the time, it seemed like the bees knees. But now it just seems SOO old fashioned. I inherited a site that had CFFORM and the java applets all over it (CFGRID etc) and it pretty soon showed that it was a nightmare to do updates on, and as more and more of our users wanted to use devices that didnt have flash and java on them, we got more and more problems. It soon proved that we needed to change to a pure HTML/CSS3/jquery approach for all client-side stuff, leaving ColdFusion to handle the backend server-side stuff, which is where CFML really struts its stuff and knocks everything else out of the park. (Sorry about the mixed metaphor!) Cheers Mike Kear Windsor, NSW, Australia Adobe Certified Advanced ColdFusion Developer AFP Webworks http://afpwebworks.com ColdFusion Enterprise, PHP, ASP, ASP.NET hosting from AUD$15/month On Tue, Mar 4, 2014 at 5:26 PM, Wil Genovese jugg...@trunkful.com wrote: There is always better ways to do things than using the client side CF code. I have not looked at the output of CFFORM JavaScript in ages, but if it has not been updated at all there's a good chance it's not fully compatible with today's browsers. There are also form validation frameworks. One that I know of is ValidateThis http://www.validatethis.org/ I'm not sure if this will work in your case. It's worth at least looking into it. There are options and most will be better than CFFORM. Regards, Wil Genovese Sr. Web Application Developer/ Systems Administrator CF Webtools www.cfwebtools.com wilg...@trunkful.com www.trunkful. ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:357830 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: Honest question about cfform
On 3/3/2014 10:39 PM, Gerald Guido wrote: Why are people so vehemently opposed so to CFForm? Many TIA in advance, Curious-G! -- Gerald Guido Twitter https://twitter.com/CozmoTrouble Blarg http://www.myinternetisbroken.com Facebook https://www.facebook.com/gerald.guido.9 ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:357832 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: Honest question about cfform
I think it is acceptable to let CF do some things for you. For example, I don't want to go to Java and write the code to handle database calls. Could I? Sure. (Ok, I lie.) But is it a good use of my time? Probably not. I let CF handle that aspect for me and it has never been a problem. On the flip side, letting CF handle client side JS for me *has* caused me problems in the past. In many cases, I needed to do something different than what CF did. Sometimes this is easy to do, sometimes not. But in the cases where it was easy to do, I've gotten screwed when an CF update changes things that makes my customizations break. Back when CFFORM (and other client side tags, cftable anyone) was added, client side dev wasn't easy. CF was a great help in that area 10 years ago. But guess what? Client side dev has come a LONG way since then. Is it perfect? Of course not. But there are numerous libraries, tools, etc to help make this easier. The simple fact is that CF is *not* a benefit anymore in this area. It is *epic* for handling data integration with client side apps and I'd focus on that instead. On Tue, Mar 4, 2014 at 8:02 AM, Scott Stewart webmas...@sstwebworks.comwrote: On 3/3/2014 10:39 PM, Gerald Guido wrote: Why are people so vehemently opposed so to CFForm? Many TIA in advance, Curious-G! -- Gerald Guido Twitter https://twitter.com/CozmoTrouble Blarg http://www.myinternetisbroken.com Facebook https://www.facebook.com/gerald.guido.9 ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:357838 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: Honest question about cfform
Why are people so vehemently opposed so to CFForm? Mainly for historical reason. I don't know how is CFForm nowadays, but when it first appeared in CF, it was really week, missing a lot of essential features, and every message coming out of it was only in English, making it not an option for any application in any other language. Also, data validation was only server side, users prefer client side data validation. ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:357839 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: Honest question about cfform
I have used cf since v4 and it has always had both client side and server side validation On Tue, Mar 4, 2014 at 2:45 PM, wrote: Why are people so vehemently opposed so to CFForm? Mainly for historical reason. I don't know how is CFForm nowadays, but when it first appeared in CF, it was really week, missing a lot of essential features, and every message coming out of it was only in English, making it not an option for any application in any other language. Also, data validation was only server side, users prefer client side data validation. ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:357840 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
RE: Honest question about cfform
I have used cf since v4 and it has always had both client side and server side validation Ditto... but for client side validation I seldom use CFFORM unless it is a very simple form. CFFORM is good for required fields and for some validation of data types entered in fields. It falls short when there is any conditional validation (i.e., the validation for one field depends on the response made in a previous field) and it falls short on the aesthetics of reporting errors. Unless they've added something new I'm unaware of, it still uses an alert to show errors. Generally I'll use jQuery validation or write my own script. The user experience can be much improved from CFFORM validation. Robert Harrison Director of Interactive Services Austin Williams Advertising I Branding I Digital I Direct 125 Kennedy Drive, Suite 100 I Hauppauge, NY 11788 T 631.231.6600 X 119 F 631.434.7022 http://www.austin-williams.com Blog: http://www.austin-williams.com/blog Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/austin_ ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:357841 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: Honest question about cfform
On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 10:42 PM, Gerald Guido wrote: My bad: Why are people so vehemently opposed to CFForm? Rule of thumb: Anything that is built into CF and spits out Java, Javascript, Flash, or any other client side parsed in the browser stuff should be avoided. Adobe has a roughly 18 month cycle on releases of ColdFusion so it will be at least 18 months out of date as some point, maybe 36 month if they skip updating it in a release. That's essentially a lifetime on the client side. You control the server side. So that code gets old and crufty, who cares? You do not control the client side, it needs to be able to grow and adapt alongside browsers as they evolve. Not on a 18-36 month release cycle dictated by an outside vendor. -Cameron PS: Cough, cough, PhoneGap integration, cough, cough, bleagh ... ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:357842 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: Honest question about cfform
That may have been the case at one time. HOWEVER with HTML 5 and such jQuery plugins as jQuery.Validate, even that argument in favour of CFFORM is no longer valid. With HTML 5 (assuming that the client browser can handle it) even required fields are much easier to do than with CF now. About the only thing I can see CFForm working well is with dependent selects. And that's only because I haven't tried setting up my own in jQuery or have used a jQuery plugin. I have used cf since v4 and it has always had both client side and server side validation Ditto... but for client side validation I seldom use CFFORM unless it is a very simple form. CFFORM is good for required fields and for some validation of data types entered in fields. It falls short when there is any conditional validation (i.e., the validation for one field depends on the response made in a previous field) and it falls short on the aesthetics of reporting errors. Unless they've added something new I'm unaware of, it still uses an alert to show errors. Generally I'll use jQuery validation or write my own script. The user experience can be much improved from CFFORM validation. Robert Harrison Director of Interactive Services Austin Williams Advertising I Branding I Digital I Direct 125 Kennedy Drive, Suite 100 I Hauppauge, NY 11788 T 631.231.6600 X 119 F 631.434.7022 http://www.austin-williams.com Blog: http://www.austin-williams.com/blog Twitter: http://www.twitter. com/austin_ ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:357843 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: Honest question about cfform
On Mar 4, 2014 5:40 AM, Gerald Guido wrote: Why are people so vehemently opposed so to CFForm? Because it will only get you so far. And once you want to go further, you'll find that you can't. So then you have to go back, rip out cfform and replace it with something else. At which point you will discover that whatever skills you learned using cfform are useless because they don't transfer to other form frameworks. All of this is just fine if you know it beforehand and plan for it. But at the same time you are developing your cfform project, the rest of the world is moving forward. And I am guessing too many of us got burned when a project initially was fine with cfform, but then the requirements changed and it wasn't anymore Additionally I suspect plain old snobbery: it is not a technologically good solution, therefore it can never be a good solution from an ROI perspective. Jochem ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:357844 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: Honest question about cfform
And btw - don't forget - there is a whole project dedicated to helping you replace these items. (So instead of just saying Dont Do X, we can do Do This) - https://github.com/cfjedimaster/ColdFusion-UI-the-Right-Way On Tue, Mar 4, 2014 at 11:25 AM, Jochem van Dieten joch...@gmail.comwrote: On Mar 4, 2014 5:40 AM, Gerald Guido wrote: Why are people so vehemently opposed so to CFForm? Because it will only get you so far. And once you want to go further, you'll find that you can't. So then you have to go back, rip out cfform and replace it with something else. At which point you will discover that whatever skills you learned using cfform are useless because they don't transfer to other form frameworks. All of this is just fine if you know it beforehand and plan for it. But at the same time you are developing your cfform project, the rest of the world is moving forward. And I am guessing too many of us got burned when a project initially was fine with cfform, but then the requirements changed and it wasn't anymore Additionally I suspect plain old snobbery: it is not a technologically good solution, therefore it can never be a good solution from an ROI perspective. Jochem ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:357845 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: Honest question about cfform
Thank you all for taking the time to answer. It has been most enlightening.I must say that assumptions made were more interesting than the answers themselves. G! -- Gerald Guido Twitter https://twitter.com/CozmoTrouble Blarg http://www.myinternetisbroken.com Facebook https://www.facebook.com/gerald.guido.9 On Tue, Mar 4, 2014 at 12:35 PM, Raymond Camden raymondcam...@gmail.comwrote: And btw - don't forget - there is a whole project dedicated to helping you replace these items. (So instead of just saying Dont Do X, we can do Do This) - https://github.com/cfjedimaster/ColdFusion-UI-the-Right-Way On Tue, Mar 4, 2014 at 11:25 AM, Jochem van Dieten joch...@gmail.com wrote: On Mar 4, 2014 5:40 AM, Gerald Guido wrote: Why are people so vehemently opposed so to CFForm? Because it will only get you so far. And once you want to go further, you'll find that you can't. So then you have to go back, rip out cfform and replace it with something else. At which point you will discover that whatever skills you learned using cfform are useless because they don't transfer to other form frameworks. All of this is just fine if you know it beforehand and plan for it. But at the same time you are developing your cfform project, the rest of the world is moving forward. And I am guessing too many of us got burned when a project initially was fine with cfform, but then the requirements changed and it wasn't anymore Additionally I suspect plain old snobbery: it is not a technologically good solution, therefore it can never be a good solution from an ROI perspective. Jochem ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:357849 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Honest question about cfform
Why are people so vehemently opposed so to CFForm? Many TIA in advance, Curious-G! -- Gerald Guido Twitter https://twitter.com/CozmoTrouble Blarg http://www.myinternetisbroken.com Facebook https://www.facebook.com/gerald.guido.9 ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:357818 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: Honest question about cfform
My bad: Why are people so vehemently opposed to CFForm? G! -- Gerald Guido Twitter https://twitter.com/CozmoTrouble Blarg http://www.myinternetisbroken.com Facebook https://www.facebook.com/gerald.guido.9 On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 10:39 PM, Gerald Guido gerald.gu...@gmail.comwrote: Why are people so vehemently opposed so to CFForm? Many TIA in advance, Curious-G! -- Gerald Guido Twitter https://twitter.com/CozmoTrouble Blarg http://www.myinternetisbroken.com Facebook https://www.facebook.com/gerald.guido.9 ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:357819 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: Honest question about cfform
In a nutshell Because it's a bloated, outdated, streaming pile of dung. :-) On Mar 3, 2014 10:43 PM, Gerald Guido gerald.gu...@gmail.com wrote: My bad: Why are people so vehemently opposed to CFForm? G! -- Gerald Guido Twitter https://twitter.com/CozmoTrouble Blarg http://www.myinternetisbroken.com Facebook https://www.facebook.com/gerald.guido.9 On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 10:39 PM, Gerald Guido gerald.gu...@gmail.com wrote: Why are people so vehemently opposed so to CFForm? Many TIA in advance, Curious-G! -- Gerald Guido Twitter https://twitter.com/CozmoTrouble Blarg http://www.myinternetisbroken.com Facebook https://www.facebook.com/gerald.guido.9 ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:357820 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: Honest question about cfform
ColdFusion is great, but avoid cfform, cfupdate, etc. If it seems to good to be true, it is. Learn to build forms and queries manually. You'll be much better off in the long run. On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 8:57 PM, Matt Quackenbush quackfu...@gmail.comwrote: In a nutshell Because it's a bloated, outdated, streaming pile of dung. :-) On Mar 3, 2014 10:43 PM, Gerald Guido gerald.gu...@gmail.com wrote: My bad: Why are people so vehemently opposed to CFForm? G! ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:357821 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: Honest question about cfform
I am going to ignore that. Can I get a business case argument? Thanxk G! -- Gerald Guido Twitter https://twitter.com/CozmoTrouble Blarg http://www.myinternetisbroken.com Facebook https://www.facebook.com/gerald.guido.9 On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 11:57 PM, Matt Quackenbush quackfu...@gmail.comwrote: In a nutshell Because it's a bloated, outdated, streaming pile of dung. :-) On Mar 3, 2014 10:43 PM, Gerald Guido gerald.gu...@gmail.com wrote: My bad: Why are people so vehemently opposed to CFForm? G! -- Gerald Guido Twitter https://twitter.com/CozmoTrouble Blarg http://www.myinternetisbroken.com Facebook https://www.facebook.com/gerald.guido.9 On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 10:39 PM, Gerald Guido gerald.gu...@gmail.com wrote: Why are people so vehemently opposed so to CFForm? Many TIA in advance, Curious-G! -- Gerald Guido Twitter https://twitter.com/CozmoTrouble Blarg http://www.myinternetisbroken.com Facebook https://www.facebook.com/gerald.guido.9 ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:357822 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: Honest question about cfform
The business case is that it is bloated, outdated (i.e. the Javascript libraries that it utilizes), and it is not even good Javascript at that. Maybe you would be better served giving your case for it and then folks can provide counterpoints. But the answer to the question you asked is what I gave. ;-) On Mar 4, 2014 12:06 AM, Gerald Guido gerald.gu...@gmail.com wrote: I am going to ignore that. Can I get a business case argument? Thanxk G! -- Gerald Guido Twitter https://twitter.com/CozmoTrouble Blarg http://www.myinternetisbroken.com Facebook https://www.facebook.com/gerald.guido.9 On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 11:57 PM, Matt Quackenbush quackfu...@gmail.com wrote: In a nutshell Because it's a bloated, outdated, streaming pile of dung. :-) On Mar 3, 2014 10:43 PM, Gerald Guido gerald.gu...@gmail.com wrote: My bad: Why are people so vehemently opposed to CFForm? G! -- Gerald Guido Twitter https://twitter.com/CozmoTrouble Blarg http://www.myinternetisbroken.com Facebook https://www.facebook.com/gerald.guido.9 On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 10:39 PM, Gerald Guido gerald.gu...@gmail.com wrote: Why are people so vehemently opposed so to CFForm? Many TIA in advance, Curious-G! -- Gerald Guido Twitter https://twitter.com/CozmoTrouble Blarg http://www.myinternetisbroken.com Facebook https://www.facebook.com/gerald.guido.9 ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:357823 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: Honest question about cfform
I am acutely aware of the arguments on both sides. But as I start rewriting our form validation system, as you have Mr. Quackenbush, I really have to pose the question: Is the juice worth the squeeze? Food for thought G! -- Gerald Guido Twitter https://twitter.com/CozmoTrouble Blarg http://www.myinternetisbroken.com Facebook https://www.facebook.com/gerald.guido.9 On Tue, Mar 4, 2014 at 12:24 AM, Matt Quackenbush quackfu...@gmail.comwrote: The business case is that it is bloated, outdated (i.e. the Javascript libraries that it utilizes), and it is not even good Javascript at that. Maybe you would be better served giving your case for it and then folks can provide counterpoints. But the answer to the question you asked is what I gave. ;-) On Mar 4, 2014 12:06 AM, Gerald Guido gerald.gu...@gmail.com wrote: I am going to ignore that. Can I get a business case argument? Thanxk G! -- Gerald Guido Twitter https://twitter.com/CozmoTrouble Blarg http://www.myinternetisbroken.com Facebook https://www.facebook.com/gerald.guido.9 On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 11:57 PM, Matt Quackenbush quackfu...@gmail.com wrote: In a nutshell Because it's a bloated, outdated, streaming pile of dung. :-) On Mar 3, 2014 10:43 PM, Gerald Guido gerald.gu...@gmail.com wrote: My bad: Why are people so vehemently opposed to CFForm? G! -- Gerald Guido Twitter https://twitter.com/CozmoTrouble Blarg http://www.myinternetisbroken.com Facebook https://www.facebook.com/gerald.guido.9 On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 10:39 PM, Gerald Guido gerald.gu...@gmail.com wrote: Why are people so vehemently opposed so to CFForm? Many TIA in advance, Curious-G! -- Gerald Guido Twitter https://twitter.com/CozmoTrouble Blarg http://www.myinternetisbroken.com Facebook https://www.facebook.com/gerald.guido.9 ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:357824 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: Honest question about cfform
I'm not sure what you're asking (saying?), but if you're asking me if it's worth not using cfform the answer is a resounding hell yes! There is no viable use case for cfform in my world. On Mar 4, 2014 12:44 AM, Gerald Guido gerald.gu...@gmail.com wrote: I am acutely aware of the arguments on both sides. But as I start rewriting our form validation system, as you have Mr. Quackenbush, I really have to pose the question: Is the juice worth the squeeze? Food for thought G! -- Gerald Guido Twitter https://twitter.com/CozmoTrouble Blarg http://www.myinternetisbroken.com Facebook https://www.facebook.com/gerald.guido.9 On Tue, Mar 4, 2014 at 12:24 AM, Matt Quackenbush quackfu...@gmail.com wrote: The business case is that it is bloated, outdated (i.e. the Javascript libraries that it utilizes), and it is not even good Javascript at that. Maybe you would be better served giving your case for it and then folks can provide counterpoints. But the answer to the question you asked is what I gave. ;-) On Mar 4, 2014 12:06 AM, Gerald Guido gerald.gu...@gmail.com wrote: I am going to ignore that. Can I get a business case argument? Thanxk G! -- Gerald Guido Twitter https://twitter.com/CozmoTrouble Blarg http://www.myinternetisbroken.com Facebook https://www.facebook.com/gerald.guido.9 On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 11:57 PM, Matt Quackenbush quackfu...@gmail.com wrote: In a nutshell Because it's a bloated, outdated, streaming pile of dung. :-) On Mar 3, 2014 10:43 PM, Gerald Guido gerald.gu...@gmail.com wrote: My bad: Why are people so vehemently opposed to CFForm? G! -- Gerald Guido Twitter https://twitter.com/CozmoTrouble Blarg http://www.myinternetisbroken.com Facebook https://www.facebook.com/gerald.guido.9 On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 10:39 PM, Gerald Guido gerald.gu...@gmail.com wrote: Why are people so vehemently opposed so to CFForm? Many TIA in advance, Curious-G! -- Gerald Guido Twitter https://twitter.com/CozmoTrouble Blarg http://www.myinternetisbroken.com Facebook https://www.facebook.com/gerald.guido.9 ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:357825 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: Honest question about cfform
Not ever? As in 100% never? Curious, G! -- Gerald Guido Twitter https://twitter.com/CozmoTrouble Blarg http://www.myinternetisbroken.com Facebook https://www.facebook.com/gerald.guido.9 On Tue, Mar 4, 2014 at 12:56 AM, Matt Quackenbush quackfu...@gmail.comwrote: I'm not sure what you're asking (saying?), but if you're asking me if it's worth not using cfform the answer is a resounding hell yes! There is no viable use case for cfform in my world. On Mar 4, 2014 12:44 AM, Gerald Guido gerald.gu...@gmail.com wrote: I am acutely aware of the arguments on both sides. But as I start rewriting our form validation system, as you have Mr. Quackenbush, I really have to pose the question: Is the juice worth the squeeze? Food for thought G! -- Gerald Guido Twitter https://twitter.com/CozmoTrouble Blarg http://www.myinternetisbroken.com Facebook https://www.facebook.com/gerald.guido.9 On Tue, Mar 4, 2014 at 12:24 AM, Matt Quackenbush quackfu...@gmail.com wrote: The business case is that it is bloated, outdated (i.e. the Javascript libraries that it utilizes), and it is not even good Javascript at that. Maybe you would be better served giving your case for it and then folks can provide counterpoints. But the answer to the question you asked is what I gave. ;-) On Mar 4, 2014 12:06 AM, Gerald Guido gerald.gu...@gmail.com wrote: I am going to ignore that. Can I get a business case argument? Thanxk G! -- Gerald Guido Twitter https://twitter.com/CozmoTrouble Blarg http://www.myinternetisbroken.com Facebook https://www.facebook.com/gerald.guido.9 On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 11:57 PM, Matt Quackenbush quackfu...@gmail.com wrote: In a nutshell Because it's a bloated, outdated, streaming pile of dung. :-) On Mar 3, 2014 10:43 PM, Gerald Guido gerald.gu...@gmail.com wrote: My bad: Why are people so vehemently opposed to CFForm? G! -- Gerald Guido Twitter https://twitter.com/CozmoTrouble Blarg http://www.myinternetisbroken.com Facebook https://www.facebook.com/gerald.guido.9 On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 10:39 PM, Gerald Guido gerald.gu...@gmail.com wrote: Why are people so vehemently opposed so to CFForm? Many TIA in advance, Curious-G! -- Gerald Guido Twitter https://twitter.com/CozmoTrouble Blarg http://www.myinternetisbroken.com Facebook https://www.facebook.com/gerald.guido.9 ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:357826 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: Honest question about cfform
Never. Ever. I have never used cfform and it's unfathomable to me to think I ever would. The only conceivable efficiency for cfform is for a developer that knows essentially nothing other than following along with his / her WACK and got to the part that says, Oh, shiny! And no, that's not actually efficient. I wouldn't even use cfform for a prototype of the most basic of applications. Seriously. On Mar 4, 2014 1:01 AM, Gerald Guido gerald.gu...@gmail.com wrote: Not ever? As in 100% never? Curious, G! -- Gerald Guido Twitter https://twitter.com/CozmoTrouble Blarg http://www.myinternetisbroken.com Facebook https://www.facebook.com/gerald.guido.9 On Tue, Mar 4, 2014 at 12:56 AM, Matt Quackenbush quackfu...@gmail.com wrote: I'm not sure what you're asking (saying?), but if you're asking me if it's worth not using cfform the answer is a resounding hell yes! There is no viable use case for cfform in my world. On Mar 4, 2014 12:44 AM, Gerald Guido gerald.gu...@gmail.com wrote: I am acutely aware of the arguments on both sides. But as I start rewriting our form validation system, as you have Mr. Quackenbush, I really have to pose the question: Is the juice worth the squeeze? Food for thought G! -- Gerald Guido Twitter https://twitter.com/CozmoTrouble Blarg http://www.myinternetisbroken.com Facebook https://www.facebook.com/gerald.guido.9 On Tue, Mar 4, 2014 at 12:24 AM, Matt Quackenbush quackfu...@gmail.com wrote: The business case is that it is bloated, outdated (i.e. the Javascript libraries that it utilizes), and it is not even good Javascript at that. Maybe you would be better served giving your case for it and then folks can provide counterpoints. But the answer to the question you asked is what I gave. ;-) On Mar 4, 2014 12:06 AM, Gerald Guido gerald.gu...@gmail.com wrote: I am going to ignore that. Can I get a business case argument? Thanxk G! -- Gerald Guido Twitter https://twitter.com/CozmoTrouble Blarg http://www.myinternetisbroken.com Facebook https://www.facebook.com/gerald.guido.9 On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 11:57 PM, Matt Quackenbush quackfu...@gmail.com wrote: In a nutshell Because it's a bloated, outdated, streaming pile of dung. :-) On Mar 3, 2014 10:43 PM, Gerald Guido gerald.gu...@gmail.com wrote: My bad: Why are people so vehemently opposed to CFForm? G! -- Gerald Guido Twitter https://twitter.com/CozmoTrouble Blarg http://www.myinternetisbroken.com Facebook https://www.facebook.com/gerald.guido.9 On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 10:39 PM, Gerald Guido gerald.gu...@gmail.com wrote: Why are people so vehemently opposed so to CFForm? Many TIA in advance, Curious-G! -- Gerald Guido Twitter https://twitter.com/CozmoTrouble Blarg http://www.myinternetisbroken.com Facebook https://www.facebook.com/gerald.guido.9 ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:357827 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: Honest question about cfform
There is always better ways to do things than using the client side CF code. I have not looked at the output of CFFORM JavaScript in ages, but if it has not been updated at all theres a good chance its not fully compatible with todays browsers. There are also form validation frameworks. One that I know of is ValidateThis http://www.validatethis.org/ Im not sure if this will work in your case. Its worth at least looking into it. There are options and most will be better than CFFORM. Regards, Wil Genovese Sr. Web Application Developer/ Systems Administrator CF Webtools www.cfwebtools.com wilg...@trunkful.com www.trunkful. ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:357828 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
