Re: clojure.edn/read isn't spec compliant

[Gregg Reynolds]

On Thu, Oct 22, 2020 at 12:00 PM EuAndreh  wrote:

> Gregg Reynolds  writes:
>
> > I could put that to good use, even if it isn't 100% "compliant".  Is it
> > available?
>
> You can find the current WIP code here:
> https://git.euandreh.xyz/libedn/tree/src/core/rust
>
> Awesome, thanks!

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Re: clojure.edn/read isn't spec compliant

[Gregg Reynolds]

On Fri, Oct 16, 2020 at 8:07 PM 'EuAndreh' via Clojure <
clojure@googlegroups.com> wrote:

>
> Hello there.
>
> I was working on implementing a specification compliant edn reader on
> Rust


I could put that to good use, even if it isn't 100% "compliant".  Is it
available?

Thanks

Gregg

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Re: mysterious clj -m behavior

[Gregg Reynolds]

On Fri, Oct 9, 2020 at 3:15 PM alpeware llc  wrote:

> You should be able to specify the deps.edn file using a env variable -
>
> The Clojure tools will use the following deps.edn map sources, in this
> order:
>
>-
>
>Root - found in the installation of clj (or as a resource in
>tools.deps)
>-
>
>User - cross-project configuration (typically tools)
>-
>
>   Locations used in this order:
>   -
>
>  If $CLJ_CONFIG is set, then use $CLJ_CONFIG (explicit override)
>  -
>
>  If $XDG_CONFIG_HOME is set, then use $XDG_CONFIG_HOME/clojure 
> (Freedesktop
>  conventions)
>  -
>
>  Else use $HOME/.clojure (most common)
>  -
>
>Project - the deps.edn in the current directory
>-
>
>Config data - a deps.edn map passed on the command line
>
> https://clojure.org/reference/deps_and_cli#_deps_edn_sources
>
> Here's an example passing in a map -
>
> clojure -Sdeps '{:deps {myname/mytemplate {:local/root "mytemplate"}}}'
>
>
> Hope this helps.
>

Thanks. I see what the problem is.  Memo to documentation authors: please
use unambiguous terminology, consistently.  E.g. do not use 'deps.edn'
sometimes as a file name and sometimes as a type name. In fact I advise
against ever using it as anything but a file name.  The last line of the
doc should read something like:

Config data - a configuration map passed on the command line using
'-SDeps'.  As opposed to "name of a file ('deps.edn') containing a config
map, passed on the command line", which seems like the most natural way to
read the current text.

Cheers,

Gregg

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Re: mysterious clj -m behavior

[Gregg Reynolds]

On Fri, Oct 9, 2020 at 1:34 PM Gregg Reynolds  wrote:

> I'm writing a command line tool, and using `$ clj -m obazl args` to run
> it.  My deps.edn file contains the path to the sources.  Works great,
> except when it doesn't.
>
> I copied the deps.edn to the root directory of a project and when I run it
> it produces no output. It just returns silently.  I injected a bug in the
> source and it had no effect, so evidently its not even accessing the source.
>
> It works in a variety of other contexts (it analyzes some code).  I  can't
> see anything different in the directory where it stops working, but there
> must be something.  I deleted .cpcache, no effect. Tried it in a fresh
> shell to make sure I had not wrecked the env vars; same result, works
> everywhere but that one directory.
>
> What should I be looking for?
>

Never mind. I was reading a file at initialization time, complete with
error checking - but used printf to emit the error message and neglected to
(flush) it.

But the other question stands: how can I pass a deps.edn file to the cli
command?


>
> Related question: I would like to load deps.edn from a subdirectory,
> something like `$ clj -d bzl/deps.edn -m obazl args`.  The CLI guide says
> cli takes "Config data - a deps.edn map passed on the command line" - but
> it does not say how to pass it on the command line.  I've tried every way I
> can think of with no luck.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Gregg
>

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mysterious clj -m behavior

[Gregg Reynolds]

I'm writing a command line tool, and using `$ clj -m obazl args` to run
it.  My deps.edn file contains the path to the sources.  Works great,
except when it doesn't.

I copied the deps.edn to the root directory of a project and when I run it
it produces no output. It just returns silently.  I injected a bug in the
source and it had no effect, so evidently its not even accessing the source.

It works in a variety of other contexts (it analyzes some code).  I  can't
see anything different in the directory where it stops working, but there
must be something.  I deleted .cpcache, no effect. Tried it in a fresh
shell to make sure I had not wrecked the env vars; same result, works
everywhere but that one directory.

What should I be looking for?

Related question: I would like to load deps.edn from a subdirectory,
something like `$ clj -d bzl/deps.edn -m obazl args`.  The CLI guide says
cli takes "Config data - a deps.edn map passed on the command line" - but
it does not say how to pass it on the command line.  I've tried every way I
can think of with no luck.

Thanks,

Gregg

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Data point

[Gregg Reynolds]

Just fyi I just got a headhunter email from a largish company listing
clojure/script first. Yay!

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Re: OK idea to replace conj and cons with "prepend" and "append" macros that have consistent behavior and return same types as args?

[Gregg Reynolds]

Brilliant exposition, thanks!

On Fri, Jul 20, 2018, 10:51 AM Gary Johnson  wrote:

> Hi Christian,
>
> You are looking for "into", which is already part of the Clojure standard
> library.
>
> Appending:
>
> (into '(1 2) '(3)) ;=>  (1 2 3)
> (into [1 2] [3])   ;=>  [1 2 3]
> (into {:a 1 :b 2} {:c 3})  ;=>  {:a 1, :b 2, :c 3}
> (into #{:a :b} #{:c})  ;=>  #{:c :b :a}
>
> Prepending:
>
> (into '(1) '(2 3)) ;=>  (1 2 3)
> (into [1] [2 3])   ;=>  [1 2 3]
> (into {:a 1} {:b 2 :c 3})  ;=>  {:a 1, :b 2, :c 3}
> (into #{:a} #{:b :c})  ;=>  #{:c :b :a}
>
> The "into" function pours the contents of the second collection into the
> first collection, returning a collection of the same type as the first
> argument.
>
> That being said, I agree with Alex and James in this rather lengthy
> discussion. Clojure is unique among the Lisps in that it moved beyond
> having linked lists as the only first class data structure.
>
> Prior to Clojure, if you worked in a Lisp like Scheme or Common Lisp, you
> would design your program around the creation, traversal, and manipulation
> of linked lists using higher order functions and explicit recursions. The
> standard library in both languages is heavily focused on these list-related
> operations. After developing the initial version of your program, if you
> found that it was too slow or used too much memory, the accepted practice
> was to profile your application to identify the functions that were getting
> hammered the most and were using up the majority of your computing
> resources. You would then often end up rewriting those function bodies in
> an imperative fashion using loops and mutable data structures (i.e., arrays
> and hashtables). The "wisdom" here was that this would enable you to "first
> make it right, then make it fast". If even further performance was required
> from your program, you might then rewrite part of your program in C, build
> a foreign function interface (FFI) to link the C code into your Lisp
> program, and go from there. These were the Bad Old Days of Lisp(TM).
>
> What was IMHO quite possibly Rich's greatest contribution in the design of
> Clojure to the Lisp world was his decision to make additional data
> structures first class citizens of the language. Most importantly, he did
> so by creating Clojure's vectors, maps, and sets to be immutable,
> persistent, performant, recursively constructed, and representable as data
> literals. This was already a wonderful improvement over previous Lisps, but
> it created a new problem: How could we enjoy the pure delight of
> list-oriented programming that Lisp had always offered us now that the data
> structure space had been fragmented? A famous quote from Alan Perlis is a
> popular gem in the Lisp world, and it goes like so:
>
> "It is better to have 100 functions operate on one data structure than to
> have 10 functions operate on 10 data structures."
>
> Every Lisp had always satisfied this by simply giving programmers only one
> first class data structure to use: the linked list. As I already mentioned,
> the bulk of its standard library would then be built around list
> manipulation functions. Clojure needed a way to preserve this unified style
> of programming while still providing a collection of performant data
> structures for real-world programming. So how did Rich accomplish this?
>
> He created the "sequence abstraction". A sequence in Clojure serves a
> similar role to the linked list of previous Lisps in that it unifies the
> API for interacting with all of Clojure's first class data structures
> (list, vector, map, set). By calling the function "seq" on any data
> structure, you are given a list-like view of that collection that allows
> you to traverse it from beginning to end one element at a time and to add
> new elements to the beginning of it. These operations are called "first",
> "rest", and "cons", and they behave precisely as you would expect them to
> if you were calling them on a linked list.
>
> By using seq throughout the Clojure sequence library (i.e., the set of
> standard library functions responsible for creating, traversing,
> transforming, and manipulating sequences), Clojure is able to have single
> implementations of all of the common Lispy higher order list transformation
> functions. For example, we have "map", "filter", "reduce", "iterate",
> "take", "drop", "repeat", "cycle", and so on. The amazing thing is that
> these can all take any of Clojure's data structures as their inputs. So you
> can call map on a list, vector, map, or set without having to change the
> function signature. Without the sequence abstraction, we could need
> multiple functions for every data structure we wanted to support (e.g.,
> map-list, map-vec, map-hash, map-set, filter-list, filter-vec, filter-hash,
> filter-set). This is precisely the kind of combinatorial explosion of the
> function space the Alan Perlis was warning us about. The tradeoff is 

Re: OK idea to replace conj and cons with "prepend" and "append" macros that have consistent behavior and return same types as args?

[Gregg Reynolds]

On Sun, Jul 22, 2018, 4:22 PM Christian Seberino 
wrote:

> - conj adds an element in the place best for the collection type.
>
>
> Is this a valid hypothetical to worry about?...
>
> Imagine you're the teacher and make the comment above.
>
> Student responds..
>
> "But why, Mr. Teacher, is the 'best' place different for lists and
> vectors?  That seems strange that they are opposite."
>

Just what is it that you want to teach? Principles of computation, or
Clojure? Not the same. If the former, forget Clojure and give them a week
to work thru The Little Schemer. Then move on to clojure and the much more
complex stuff involved.

G

>

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Re: OK idea to replace conj and cons with "prepend" and "append" macros that have consistent behavior and return same types as args?

[Gregg Reynolds]

On Wed, Jul 18, 2018, 2:40 PM Gregg Reynolds  wrote:

>
>
> On Wed, Jul 18, 2018, 2:25 PM Robert Levy  wrote:
>
>> > Of course you have to "evaluate" to know that, but you also have to
>> evaluate "2" in the same way to know what it means.
>>
>> I think you're missing the point.
>>
>
> I think maybe we're talking about different things.
>
> 2 is literal because you read it, eval it, print it, and 2 (the result of
>> evaluation) as printed is the same as the original input. A function is
>> read, eval'd, printed and is *not* the same as what was read in. E.g  {:a
>> +}  => {:a #function[clojure.core/+]}
>>
>
> Same meaning?
>

I.e. alpha conversion. Just a rewrite, not an eval?


>
>> Literals can be persisted to strings and read back in with no problem,
>> whereas non-literals can't.
>>
>
> That's a different definition of "literal", no? James talked about
> evaluation, not printed form. Value != Print representation?
>
>>
>> On Wed, Jul 18, 2018 at 12:19 PM Gregg Reynolds 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jul 18, 2018, 1:55 PM James Reeves 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Wed, 18 Jul 2018 at 19:38, Gregg Reynolds  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Jul 17, 2018, 4:11 PM James Reeves 
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A data literal evaluates to itself. So for example, `2` is a
>>>>>> literal, because we only need to read it to know its value, whereas `(+
>>>>>> 1 1)` isn't a literal, because we also need to evaluate it to work
>>>>>> out the value.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Fair enough. But by that definition function expressions are also
>>>>> literals.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Not at all:
>>>>
>>>> user=> (defn literal? [s] (let [e (read-string s)] (= e (eval e
>>>> #'user/literal?
>>>> user=> (literal? "2")
>>>> true
>>>> user=> (literal? "(fn [x] x)")
>>>> false
>>>> user=> (literal? "#(%)")
>>>> false
>>>> user=> (literal? "+")
>>>> false
>>>>
>>>> Function expressions don't evaluate to themselves.
>>>>
>>>
>>> To me that means either the definition is wrong or your literal? is
>>> rigged. Probably the latter; "literal" is meta, it can't be in the language.
>>>
>>> Look at it this way: the meaning ("value") of "lambda x.x+1" is just the
>>> function that increments its arg. Of course you have to "evaluate" to know
>>> that, but you also have to evaluate "2" in the same way to know what it
>>> means. Meaning "reduce", and neither form can be further reduced.
>>>
>>> Anyway my point is that clojure, like lisp, is a form of the lambda
>>> calculus, where everything is a function, even the Nats like 2. To me at
>>> least that is one of the most important lessons of functional programming.
>>> Ymmv.
>>>
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Re: OK idea to replace conj and cons with "prepend" and "append" macros that have consistent behavior and return same types as args?

[Gregg Reynolds]

On Wed, Jul 18, 2018, 2:25 PM Robert Levy  wrote:

> > Of course you have to "evaluate" to know that, but you also have to
> evaluate "2" in the same way to know what it means.
>
> I think you're missing the point.
>

I think maybe we're talking about different things.

2 is literal because you read it, eval it, print it, and 2 (the result of
> evaluation) as printed is the same as the original input. A function is
> read, eval'd, printed and is *not* the same as what was read in. E.g  {:a
> +}  => {:a #function[clojure.core/+]}
>

Same meaning?


> Literals can be persisted to strings and read back in with no problem,
> whereas non-literals can't.
>

That's a different definition of "literal", no? James talked about
evaluation, not printed form. Value != Print representation?

>
> On Wed, Jul 18, 2018 at 12:19 PM Gregg Reynolds  wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jul 18, 2018, 1:55 PM James Reeves  wrote:
>>
>>> On Wed, 18 Jul 2018 at 19:38, Gregg Reynolds  wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Jul 17, 2018, 4:11 PM James Reeves 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> A data literal evaluates to itself. So for example, `2` is a literal,
>>>>> because we only need to read it to know its value, whereas `(+ 1 1)`
>>>>> isn't a literal, because we also need to evaluate it to work out the 
>>>>> value.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Fair enough. But by that definition function expressions are also
>>>> literals.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Not at all:
>>>
>>> user=> (defn literal? [s] (let [e (read-string s)] (= e (eval e
>>> #'user/literal?
>>> user=> (literal? "2")
>>> true
>>> user=> (literal? "(fn [x] x)")
>>> false
>>> user=> (literal? "#(%)")
>>> false
>>> user=> (literal? "+")
>>> false
>>>
>>> Function expressions don't evaluate to themselves.
>>>
>>
>> To me that means either the definition is wrong or your literal? is
>> rigged. Probably the latter; "literal" is meta, it can't be in the language.
>>
>> Look at it this way: the meaning ("value") of "lambda x.x+1" is just the
>> function that increments its arg. Of course you have to "evaluate" to know
>> that, but you also have to evaluate "2" in the same way to know what it
>> means. Meaning "reduce", and neither form can be further reduced.
>>
>> Anyway my point is that clojure, like lisp, is a form of the lambda
>> calculus, where everything is a function, even the Nats like 2. To me at
>> least that is one of the most important lessons of functional programming.
>> Ymmv.
>>
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Re: OK idea to replace conj and cons with "prepend" and "append" macros that have consistent behavior and return same types as args?

[Gregg Reynolds]

On Wed, Jul 18, 2018, 1:55 PM James Reeves  wrote:

> On Wed, 18 Jul 2018 at 19:38, Gregg Reynolds  wrote:
>
>>
>> On Tue, Jul 17, 2018, 4:11 PM James Reeves  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> A data literal evaluates to itself. So for example, `2` is a literal,
>>> because we only need to read it to know its value, whereas `(+ 1 1)`
>>> isn't a literal, because we also need to evaluate it to work out the value.
>>>
>>
>> Fair enough. But by that definition function expressions are also
>> literals.
>>
>
> Not at all:
>
> user=> (defn literal? [s] (let [e (read-string s)] (= e (eval e
> #'user/literal?
> user=> (literal? "2")
> true
> user=> (literal? "(fn [x] x)")
> false
> user=> (literal? "#(%)")
> false
> user=> (literal? "+")
> false
>
> Function expressions don't evaluate to themselves.
>

To me that means either the definition is wrong or your literal? is rigged.
Probably the latter; "literal" is meta, it can't be in the language.

Look at it this way: the meaning ("value") of "lambda x.x+1" is just the
function that increments its arg. Of course you have to "evaluate" to know
that, but you also have to evaluate "2" in the same way to know what it
means. Meaning "reduce", and neither form can be further reduced.

Anyway my point is that clojure, like lisp, is a form of the lambda
calculus, where everything is a function, even the Nats like 2. To me at
least that is one of the most important lessons of functional programming.
Ymmv.

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Re: OK idea to replace conj and cons with "prepend" and "append" macros that have consistent behavior and return same types as args?

[Gregg Reynolds]

On Tue, Jul 17, 2018, 4:11 PM James Reeves  wrote:

> On Tue, 17 Jul 2018 at 21:06, Christian Seberino 
> wrote:
>
>>
>> Clojure, on the other hand, takes great care to ensure that its data can
>>> always be represented as literals. For data that isn't a standard
>>> collection type, there are tagged literals. Clojure syntax starts from a
>>> representation of data, and in order to really understand it, I think it
>>> needs to be taught from this principle as well
>>>
>>
>> Can you elaborate?  I really want to get your point but I'm not so
>> proficient with the lingo.  What do you mean by a "literal" and "tagged
>> literals"?
>>
>
> A data literal evaluates to itself. So for example, `2` is a literal,
> because we only need to read it to know its value, whereas `(+ 1 1)`
> isn't a literal, because we also need to evaluate it to work out the value.
>

Fair enough. But by that definition function expressions are also literals.

The (pedogogical) point being that there is no bright line between code
(functions) and data.

IMHO this is hugely important. Among other things it means you can pass a
fn arg as data, which in my experience opens up design possibilities (or
ways of thinking about problems) that are just unavailable in
non-functional languages. That's my experience anyway.

Regarding OP's issue: teach that conj et al. can be viewed both ways: as a
fn that takes and returns a datum or a fn that takes and returns a fn.
Enlightenment arrives when you see it's the same thing.

G

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Re: OK idea to replace conj and cons with "prepend" and "append" macros that have consistent behavior and return same types as args?

[Gregg Reynolds]

On Tue, Jul 17, 2018 at 3:48 PM, Tomasz Sulej  wrote:

>
>
> W dniu wtorek, 17 lipca 2018 22:44:27 UTC+2 użytkownik Christian Seberino
> napisał:
>>
>>
>> data are functions and vice-versa
>>>
>>
>> What do you mean? e.g. How is the [1 2 3] a "function"?
>>
>>
Also take a look in
https://github.com/clojure/clojure/tree/clojure-1.9.0/src/jvm/clojure/lang
where
you'll see that e.g. maps, sets, and vectors extend AFn which implements
IFn.


user> ([1 2 3] 0)
> 1
> user> ([1 2 3] 2)
> 3
> user> ({:a 1 :b 2} 0)
> nil
> user> ({:a 1 :b 2} :a)
> 1
>

>
>> cs
>>
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Re: OK idea to replace conj and cons with "prepend" and "append" macros that have consistent behavior and return same types as args?

[Gregg Reynolds]

On Tue, Jul 17, 2018, 2:49 PM James Reeves  wrote:

> On Tue, 17 Jul 2018 at 19:52, Christian Seberino 
> wrote:
>
>> By the time a Clojure beginner is doing the kind of hardcore concurrent
>> applications that Clojure is great at, he/she will know how to use a
>> profiler.  At the point,  they'll be ready (and motivated!) to learn about
>> the nuances of conj and friends.
>>
>
> I think this is approaching Clojure from the wrong direction. If I was
> teaching Clojure, I'd build the lessons around the data structures first.
>

That is a legit approach, but I think it misses the mark.

Q: is a clojure map a datum or a function?

A: Yes!

>
> My opinion is that many languages take a "code first" approach to language
> design, whereas Clojure takes a "data first" approach
>

Ymmv, but that's not how I think of it. Clojure is function first to me -
but data are functions and vice-versa. That's the beauty of it.

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Re: OK idea to replace conj and cons with "prepend" and "append" macros that have consistent behavior and return same types as args?

[Gregg Reynolds]

On Tue, Jul 17, 2018, 1:51 PM Christian Seberino 
wrote:

> Actually, even "real" programmers can live for a long time with those
> training wheels I was talking about.
> As the Python guys have been proclaiming for 20+ years, performance isn't
> as important as we think for many (most?) applications.
> What the Python crowd does, when they're code is slower than required, is
> to profile their code and maybe rewrite their bottlenecks
> in C or some other optimization.
>
> By the time a Clojure beginner is doing the kind of hardcore concurrent
> applications that Clojure is great at, he/she will
> know how to use a profiler.
>

Not so much. Never had the need, personally. The root of all evil is the
last thing I care about. I like clojure mainly for its expressiveness. It's
fun and clear. That's all you need most of the time.

  At the point,  they'll be ready (and motivated!) to learn about the
> nuances of conj and friends.
>
> I'm open to corrections and ideas.
>
> cs
>
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Re: Clojure/flutter

[Gregg Reynolds]

On Thu, Apr 26, 2018, 10:08 AM Gregg Reynolds  wrote:

>
>
> On Wed, Apr 25, 2018 at 5:01 PM, Robert Levy  wrote:
>
>> What would you say is the advantage of using Flutter instead of React
>> Native?  Assuming you're not interested in Dart, what is the selling point?
>>
>
> I haven't used it yet
>

Ok, I have now used Flutter. In mild anger: wrapped a c lib. That took a
little doing. But the UI was a breeze. And it's fast. (Android only). I'm
completely sold.

My guess is that it will quickly establish World Domination, or something
very close to it. Technically it beats the snot out of the competition,
imho.

Dart is not the worst language in the world, but it ain't clojure. My
advice to the Clojure community: jump on this sucker now. Get in while the
getting's hot.

There's not much I'd like better than writing a clojuredart engine, but I
don't have the time or the chops, alas. But if it can be done for
javascript why not dart?

G

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Re: Bazel as Clojure build tool

[Gregg Reynolds]

On Mon, Jan 29, 2018, 10:16 AM Kiril Videlov  wrote:

> Hello,
> I have been looking at the Bazel  build tool for a
> multi-language mono-repo and I was wondering if anybody has tried it in the
> context of Clojure projects. I have only found the lein-monolith
>  plugin which appears to
> address a similar use case sans the polyglot requirement. Do you think
> there is any value in attempting to build a rule set
>  similar to
> the bazel rules for Scala ?
>

Hi Kiril,

Any news? What did you decide?

Gregg

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Re: Bazel as Clojure build tool

[Gregg Reynolds]

On Mon, Jun 11, 2018, 3:03 PM Erik Assum  wrote:

> Totally off topic, but I once worked on a Java project where some of the
> tests were written in groovy and they were a huge PITA:
>
> 1) The refactoring tools never found, nor refactored the groovy code
> 2) The compilation errors introduced by 1) never showed up in my IDE
> 3) Having to relate to tests I didn’t know about in a language I don’t
> care about when I thought I was done was not great for my general mood at
> the time
>



>
> I used to think that sneaking in another language by using it in the
> test-code was a stellar idea. Now I’m quite certain it isn’t.
>

Unless it's clojure!

G

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Re: Bazel as Clojure build tool

[Gregg Reynolds]

On Mon, Jun 11, 2018, 2:55 PM Rick Mangi  wrote:

> Next time you have to write unit tests for java, give groovy a try.
>

Well I guess we're getting a little of topic for clojure, but I see your
point. Problem is I have only so much gray matter, I'm not sure how much
room there is inside my skull for yet another language. Can't we write such
tests in clojure?  ;)

It has a lot of features that make this easy, 1 line map construction,
> overriding of private methods, super easy to make mocks. There's definitely
> some weird syntax, and it's slow, but I'm fine using it for glue or
> scripting.
>
>
> On Mon, Jun 11, 2018 at 3:48 PM Gregg Reynolds  wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Jun 11, 2018, 2:44 PM Rick Mangi  wrote:
>>
>>> Believe it or not, I actually like groovy a lot. I used to use it to
>>> write unit tests for java code. It's very easy to learn.
>>>
>>
>> Will wonders never cease? I had to learn a bit of groovy a while back
>> while dealing with Gradle, and came to hate it. Maybe I just have a bad
>> attitude - I blame Clojure!
>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jun 11, 2018 at 3:40 PM Gregg Reynolds 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Jun 11, 2018, 2:30 PM  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> ...
>>>>
>>>>> We're starting to lean towards gradle
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> You do understand that that means you have to deal with groovy? ;)
>>>>
>>>> Fwiw I've been working with Bazel a lot lately and I would never go
>>>> back.
>>>>
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Re: Bazel as Clojure build tool

[Gregg Reynolds]

On Mon, Jan 29, 2018, 10:16 AM Kiril Videlov  wrote:

> Hello,
> I have been looking at the Bazel  build tool for a
> multi-language mono-repo and I was wondering if anybody has tried it in the
> context of Clojure projects.
>

Let's go back to basics: what do you mean by "multi-language"?

Which languages do you need to support?

G

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Re: Bazel as Clojure build tool

[Gregg Reynolds]

On Mon, Jun 11, 2018, 2:44 PM Rick Mangi  wrote:

> Believe it or not, I actually like groovy a lot. I used to use it to write
> unit tests for java code. It's very easy to learn.
>

Will wonders never cease? I had to learn a bit of groovy a while back while
dealing with Gradle, and came to hate it. Maybe I just have a bad attitude
- I blame Clojure!

>
> On Mon, Jun 11, 2018 at 3:40 PM Gregg Reynolds  wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Jun 11, 2018, 2:30 PM  wrote:
>>
>>> ...
>>
>>> We're starting to lean towards gradle
>>>
>>
>> You do understand that that means you have to deal with groovy? ;)
>>
>> Fwiw I've been working with Bazel a lot lately and I would never go back.
>>
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Re: Bazel as Clojure build tool

[Gregg Reynolds]

On Mon, Jun 11, 2018, 2:30 PM  wrote:

> ...

> We're starting to lean towards gradle
>

You do understand that that means you have to deal with groovy? ;)

Fwiw I've been working with Bazel a lot lately and I would never go back.

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Re: [ANN] CIDER 0.17 (Andalucía) is out!

[Gregg Reynolds]

Looks awesome!

Any idea when 1.0 will be out?

On Mon, May 7, 2018, 2:55 PM Bozhidar Batsov  wrote:

> Hey everyone!
>
> I'm happy to share with you that CIDER finally made it all the way
> to Andalucía! This was a massive release that added a lot of new
> functionality and improved much of the existing one. Here are the most
> important changes in a nutshell:
>
> - improved ClojureScript support
> - the ability to display images in the REPL
> - support for deps.edn "projects"
> - support for test selectors
> - much of the core functionality on the Clojure side was been extracted to
> a stand-alone library https://github.com/clojure-emacs/orchard (that's
> step towards socket REPL support and stronger cross-editor collaboration)
>
> And here are all the details:
>
> ### New features
>
> * [#2248](https://github.com/clojure-emacs/cider/pull/2248): `cider-repl`
> can now display recognized images in the REPL buffer.
> * [#2172](https://github.com/clojure-emacs/cider/pull/2172): Render diffs
> for expected / actual test results.
> * [#2167](https://github.com/clojure-emacs/cider/pull/2167): Add new
> defcustom `cider-jdk-src-paths`. Configure it to connect stack trace links
> to Java source code.
> * [#2161](https://github.com/clojure-emacs/cider/issues/2161): Add new
> interactive command `cider-eval-defun-to-point` which is bound to `C-c C-v
> (C-)z`. It evaluates the current top-level form up to the point.
> * [#2113](https://github.com/clojure-emacs/cider/issues/2113): Add new
> interactive commands `cider-eval-last-sexp-in-context` (bound to `C-c C-v
> (C-)c`) and `cider-eval-sexp-at-point-in-context` (bound to `C-c C-v
> (C-)b`).
> * Add new interactive command `cider-repl-set-type`.
> * [#1976](https://github.com/clojure-emacs/cider/issues/1976): Add new
> interactive command `cider-connect-clojurescript`.
> * Add a menu for `cider-browse-ns-mode`.
> * [#2160](https://github.com/clojure-emacs/cider/issues/2160): Make it
> possible to configure the default `*print-level*` and `*print-length*` via
> defcustoms (`cider-repl-print-level` and `cider-repl-print-length`).
> * New interactive command `cider-cheatsheet` allows you to browse the
> Clojure Cheatsheet with an Emacs interface.
> * [#2191](https://github.com/clojure-emacs/cider/issues/2191): Add
> support for jacking-in just with the `clojure` command-line tool and
> `tools.deps`.
> * Make it possible to start a Nashorn ClojureScript REPL.
> * [#2235](https://github.com/clojure-emacs/cider/pull/2235): Make the
> REPL ignore blank input rather than evaluating.
> * [#2241](https://github.com/clojure-emacs/cider/pull/2241): Make
> `cider-test-ediff` diff eval'ed values.
> * Add support for shadow-cljs to `cider-jack-in`.
> * [#2244](https://github.com/clojure-emacs/cider/issues/2244): Display
> the REPL type in the modeline.
> * [#2238](https://github.com/clojure-emacs/cider/pull/2238): Allow
> specifying predicates for entries in `cider-jack-in-lein-plugins` and
> `cider-jack-in-nrepl-middlewares`.
> * Add support for test selectors. If test all or all loaded is called with
> a prefix ask for filter test selectors in the minibuffer and only run those
> tests in the project which match the filters. Add variation of test
> namespace which asks for filter selectors the same way and only runs a
> subset of the namespace tests.
> * Add a configuration variable allowing to control whether server output
> should be redirected to the REPL (`cider-redirect-server-output-to-repl`).
>
> ### Bugs Fixed
>
> * [#1913](https://github.com/clojure-emacs/cider/issues/1913): Fix
> `cider-toggle-buffer-connection` to allow cycling of connection and
> restoring all connections in cljc buffers.
> * [#2148](https://github.com/clojure-emacs/cider/issues/2148): Fix `jump
> to definition` working properly when remote `cider-jack-in` and
> `cider-connect`.
> * Font-lock failed assertions even in tests that were evaluated
> interactively.
> * [#2102](https://github.com/clojure-emacs/cider/issues/2102): Make
> `cider-format-buffer` handle mismatched parens gracefully.
>
> ### Changes
>
> * [#2163](https://github.com/clojure-emacs/cider/issues/2163): Add
> `cider-browse-spec-regex`, and changed `cider-browse-spec-all` to use it.
> * [#2029](https://github.com/clojure-emacs/cider/pull/2154): Make
> cider-doc use cider-browse-spec functionality to print the spec part of the
> doc buffer
> * [#2151](https://github.com/clojure-emacs/cider/pull/2151): Improve
> formatting of spec in `cider-doc` buffer.
> * Remove support for CLJX.
> * Fix `cider-eval-region` masking `clojure-refactor-map` in
> `cider-repl-mode`.
> * [#2171](https://github.com/clojure-emacs/cider/issues/2171): Update
> `See Also` mappings for Clojure 1.9.
> * [#2202](https://github.com/clojure-emacs/cider/issues/2202): Make
> `cider-jack-in-clojurescript` prompt from the ClojureScript REPL type to
> use.
> * [#2202](https://github.com/clojure-emacs/cider/issues/2202): Don't try
> to start a 

Re: [ANN] editscript: a diffing library for Clojure data

[Gregg Reynolds]

On Tue, May 1, 2018, 1:52 AM  wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I am happy to make available a diffing/patching library for Clojure data
> structures.
>

> https://github.com/juji-io/editscript
>

That looks very good!  Am I right that this could be used along with e.g.
data.xml (https://github.com/clojure/data.xml) to do XML diffing?

Thanks!

Gregg

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Re: Clojure/flutter

[Gregg Reynolds]

On Sun, Apr 29, 2018, 5:24 PM Didier  wrote:

> Honestly, I doubt any project will have more backing then Graal's native
> image.
>

Looking at Graal.  Indistinguishable from magic AFAIK.

>
> So I think its the best shot at Clojure native we've ever had, and
> probably the ideal one at that, since it'll boast all existing libraries.
>
> What could help is to then look at compiler options for Clojure that could
> help leverage native image, and lower the restrictions imposed by native
> image.
>
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Re: Clojure/flutter

[Gregg Reynolds]

On Sat, Apr 28, 2018 at 6:50 PM, Estevo U. C. Castro 
wrote:

> Just in case you hadn't heard of this:
>
> https://github.com/takeoutweight/clojure-scheme
>
> Thanks. Alas, most recent update seems to be 5 years ago. :(

I know there have been some efforts along these lines but AFAIK they have
all petered out.  Anybody have the latest dope?

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Re: Clojure/flutter

[Gregg Reynolds]

On Fri, Apr 27, 2018, 1:40 PM Robert Levy  wrote:

> dartjure?
> darjure?
> darture?
> datura?
>

https://www.darts501.com/Terms.html


> Well it's not just a question of how much effort it will take, but whether
> the interest in Dart as a target (pun intended?) would be high enough to
> sustain the project over time.
>

If it took 2 or 6 months to implement it would be worth it IMHO. 2 years? I
dunno, a lot can happen in 2 years, like Google dumps it, or something even
better comes along, or hw/SW improvements render the performance advantages
of flutter moot.

Then there's the possibility of stealing flutter's thunder and writing
clj->native compilers. Everybody wants that.

Gregg

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Re: Clojure/flutter

[Gregg Reynolds]

On Thu, Apr 26, 2018, 10:08 AM Gregg Reynolds <d...@mobileink.com> wrote:

>
>
> On Wed, Apr 25, 2018 at 5:01 PM, Robert Levy <r.p.l...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> What would you say is the advantage of using Flutter instead of React
>> Native?  Assuming you're not interested in Dart, what is the selling point?
>>
>
> I haven't used it yet but the interesting bits to me are efficiency (no
> Javascript bridge) and the user-space rendering pipeline.
>
> See What's Revolutionary about Flutter
> <https://hackernoon.com/whats-revolutionary-about-flutter-946915b09514>
>

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention: hot reloading! Have you heard of it? It's
revolutionary! ;)

>
> Gregg
>

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Re: Clojure/flutter

[Gregg Reynolds]

On Thu, Apr 26, 2018, 1:06 PM Kees-Jochem Wehrmeijer 
wrote:

> Flutter definitely looks interesting, but I guess to make it work with
> Clojure would require writing a 'ClojureDart', i.e. a Clojure that compiles
> to Dart code. Given Dart sits somewhere between Java and Javascript, this
> is maybe not undoable, but would certainly be a lot of work.
>

Yeah. I wonder how much "a lot" is, given that we already have clojure,
clojurescript, and the clojure .net compilers to steal from. Any idea how
long it took to get to the first working clojurescript compiler?

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Re: Clojure/flutter

[Gregg Reynolds]

On Wed, Apr 25, 2018 at 5:01 PM, Robert Levy  wrote:

> What would you say is the advantage of using Flutter instead of React
> Native?  Assuming you're not interested in Dart, what is the selling point?
>

I haven't used it yet but the interesting bits to me are efficiency (no
Javascript bridge) and the user-space rendering pipeline.

See What's Revolutionary about Flutter


Gregg

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Clojure/flutter

[Gregg Reynolds]

Flutter is looking pretty good to me.  Sure would be nice to have a
clojure->flutter compiler. Anthing there, there?

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Re: [ANN] clj-new -- creating new Clojure projects using the clj CLI

[Gregg Reynolds]

On Fri, Apr 20, 2018, 2:29 PM Sean Corfield  wrote:

> Alright, added command-line usage back into the README! Talk about “peer
> pressure” 
>
...

>
> "If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive."
> -- Margaret Atwood
>
Apparently you are alive and well!

Very well done, btw.

G

>

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Re: Clojure Group

[Gregg Reynolds]

On Mon, Apr 16, 2018, 11:37 AM Bijay Paudel  wrote:

> I post lots of questions but I did not get any response
>

FWIW not all messages get a response but in my experience that usually
means nobody has anything useful to say, not that the message is unwelcome.
Wait a while, then try again; if you are not comfortable in English try
rephrasing the question.

HTH

G

>

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Re: Bazel as Clojure build tool

[Gregg Reynolds]

On Tue, Jan 30, 2018, 6:07 PM Colin Fleming 
wrote:

> Another tool that works well for polyglot JVM projects is Gradle. I use it
> to build Cursive, which has Java, Kotlin and AOT'ed Clojure. I released a
> mostly-unsupported plugin for it, and Andrew Oberstar and others have taken
> it over and done a lot of work on it - it now lives at
> https://github.com/gradle-clojure. It's pretty new but is under active
> development.
>
> Gradle works very well for Cursive, I'm very happy with it.
>

Don't wanna start a religious war, but I've worked with Gradle (and about
150 other build tools). If Gradle makes you happy Bazel will make you
rapturous.

See e.g.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.pgrs.net/2015/09/01/migrating-from-gradle-to-bazel/amp/

G

>
> On 29 January 2018 at 20:07, Nathan Fisher  wrote:
>
>> Hi Kiril,
>>
>> I think you’d need to set your expectations. Faster builds are unlikely
>> to be one of the benefits. A unified build tool is one.
>>
>> I’ve seen a few similar attempts with Buck which was inspired by Bazel.
>> They either generate lein projects on the fly or call into the Clojure
>> compiler directly.
>>
>> I think Clojure’s build model works against these tools in part because
>> it’s a dynamic language, in part because it doesn’t implicitly forward
>> declare functions, in part because (I believe) it does breadth first
>> traversal if dependencies, and in part it’s non-trivial/inefficient to
>> create a clean Clojure VM per dependency in the build graph.
>>
>> Typical usage of these build tools is to have a build file per directory
>> with one or more targets in each file. In order to get the speed that the
>> build tool promises you need the ability to efficiently parse the ABI of
>> each file and only build its dependents when the ABI has changed.
>>
>> I’m not certain you can do that with Clojures compiler but someone else
>> might be able to chime in with a way that you could.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Nathan
>>
>> On Mon, 29 Jan 2018 at 13:16, Kiril Videlov  wrote:
>>
>>> Hello,
>>> I have been looking at the Bazel  build tool for a
>>> multi-language mono-repo and I was wondering if anybody has tried it in the
>>> context of Clojure projects. I have only found the lein-monolith
>>>  plugin which appears to
>>> address a similar use case sans the polyglot requirement. Do you think
>>> there is any value in attempting to build a rule set
>>>  similar
>>> to the bazel rules for Scala 
>>> ?
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Kiril Videlov
>>>
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Re: Bazel as Clojure build tool

[Gregg Reynolds]

On Mon, Jan 29, 2018, 2:07 PM Nathan Fisher  wrote:

> ...

>  In order to get the speed that the build tool promises you need the
> ability to efficiently parse the ABI of each file and only build its
> dependents when the ABI has changed.
>

Can you please elaborate on this a bit? I've been using Bazel for a project
that involve C and Java, with cross-compiles, and ABI parsing has never
come up. It just works.

>
> I’m not certain you can do that with Clojures compiler but someone else
> might be able to chime in with a way that you could.
>

I like boot for clojure stuff, not sure Bazel offers any advantage.
Clojurescript may be a different story, tho.

So far I cannot see a good reason to switch from boot to Bazel for 100%
clojure projects. Mixed language - clojure, clojurescript, js, Java,
kotlin, JNI,etc - may be a different story, still not sure.

Then there's remote caching:
https://docs.bazel.build/versions/master/remote-caching.html. a hyge
win for many scenarios, not so sure about clojure.

G
G

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Re: Using Clojure for public facing system in a bank - code security scanning - any luck?

[Gregg Reynolds]

On Sun, Apr 15, 2018, 4:59 AM Dragan Djuric  wrote:

> Hi all. Very interesting thread! I guess that not many Clojure developers
> are in this situation, but I hope many more will be; that would mean that
> Clojure got the foot in the door of the enterprise.
>
> Gregg, I need a little clarification on the last thing you mentioned: Is a
> dependency treated as secure and given the green checkmark in usual
> security procedures if there is a (community) security audit that
> systematically listed vulnerabilities and recommended ways to avoid them?
>

Danged if I know. But obviously if you are building a high security system
that uses third party libs they must be certified in some manner. If that
can be done reliably then it need not be repeated for each user.

What

> is (in your experience with banking) the minimum amount of "burden"
> necessary so that an artifact is given a passing mark?
>

My banking experience is limited to depositing and spending, hah hah.
Actually I once worked briefly in a bank processing center. The entire
system was written in IBM Sys/370 assembler. It was kinda fun. Security?
You mean the guard at the door? (This was pre-internet)



Is

> there a broader standard, or each client has its own checklist? How
> defined those procedures are? Do they update at glacial place, or a good
> and honest efforts on case-to-case basis are accepted (such as hiring a
> security expert to audit the code with not-so-standard procedures)?
>

Those are damn good questions and I don't know the answer to any of them.
Frankly i've never thought about this much. But now I do it seems like an
obvious business opportunity: if you can sign a blob of code then you can
offer a security warrant for it. For a fee. Maybe people do this but I've
never seen it. Probably too risky?

G

>

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Re: Using Clojure for public facing system in a bank - code security scanning - any luck?

[Gregg Reynolds]

On Fri, Apr 13, 2018, 4:09 PM Aaron Bedra  wrote:

> Penetration testing is something performed on an application, but a source
> code review of the language is certainly an interesting idea. My company
> does these all the time. I ran this by my folks and there was certainly
> interest. If we could publish the results and create a healthy discussion
> my company would be happy to participate and do this at a fixed and heavily
> discounted price.
>

Naive question from the clueless peanut gallery: are you talking about a
security audit of clojure core (& etc) source, which could then be cited as
evidence by app developers?

E.g. I build an app against a signed version of clojure which is
"certified" in some sense? Then I only have to audit my code (and lib
dependencies)?

Gregg

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Re: 2018 State of Clojure Community Survey is now open!

[Gregg Reynolds]

Q 3 is missing option "other".

On Jan 25, 2018 9:43 AM, "Alex Miller"  wrote:

> It's time for the annual State of Clojure Community survey!
>
> If you are a user of Clojure or ClojureScript, we are greatly interested
> in your responses to the following survey:
>
> https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/clojure2018
>
> The survey contains four pages:
>
> 1. General questions applicable to any user of Clojure or ClojureScript
> 2. Questions specific to JVM Clojure (skip if not applicable)
> 3. Questions specific to ClojureScript (skip if not applicable)
> 4. Final comments
>
> The survey will close February 9th. All of the data will be released in
> February. We are greatly appreciative of your input!
>
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Re: State & GUIs

[Gregg Reynolds]

On Dec 2, 2017 6:53 AM, "Owen"  wrote:

Hey all. I'm looking for hints on how to put GUIs together in Clojure. Any
thoughts appreciated.

The two themes that stick out for me in Clojure are considered attention to
the default data structures and the radical approach to minimising state.
But it seems to me that GUIs are inherently stateful and I don't have a
huge amount of faith that issues around data structures have been
completely thought through.


Which data structures? Clojure's data structures are very well "thought
through".

App state != gui state.


It particularly sticks out to me that Clojure itself hasn't taken a
position on the subject and that the 'official' Clojure GUI language might
actually be Swing or JavaFX.


There is no "gui language". There are gui apis.

This would be in spite of the fact that those two both bring extremely
stateful objects into the Clojure world that just don't sit very neatly
with the apparent vision of the language.

So with this as my starting point; I don't think there is an official,
idiomatic way to create a GUI. Can anyone point me in the direction of any
authoritative recommendations (particularly academic literature) on how to
balance GUI state and functional programming?


The beginning of wisdom here is simple: traditional models of computation
(Turing Machines, Lambda Definability, etc.) just do not work for
interaction. Functional programming is totally orthogonal to interactionist
programming.

For academic lit, see Robin Milner, esp. his book on the Pi Calculus.

I can tell if I have a GUI or not, but I'm looking for yardsticks to assess:
1) Is my toolkit introducing unnecessary state?
2) Am I introducing unnecessary state?
3) Are my models of inter-widget communication appropriate?


Impossible to know without seeing your code.

g

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Re: Clojure for beginners

[Gregg Reynolds]

On Dec 6, 2017 5:24 PM, "Clojure beginner"  wrote:

Hi all
I heard about Clojure a week ago and have a new assignment at work to
learn, develope and deploy to production. I haven't developed in 2 years.
Programming background is: mainframe and informatica. I have bought 5
books: and Clojure programming, Clojure for brave and true, Clojure in
action, programming Clojure, the joy of clojure. I have also been on the
main Clojure website. It's been a week and I still don't understand the
meat and potatoes. Any recommendations where I can get a walk through of it
with real examples.


You have 5 books and you cannot find a real example?

(Did I just take the troll-bait?)

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Re: hello world question !!!

[Gregg Reynolds]

There once was a man named Gustava
Whose Clojure code smelled just like Guava
He tried to use gen-class
Which made it smell stink-ass
So he went back to working in Java

Hardy-har-har.  Containers long for bytecode on disc. You can minimize it,
but you have to have it to bootstrap the Clojure runtime.

On Oct 20, 2017 12:23 PM, "Didier"  wrote:

I also suggests if you want to understand how to compile Clojure without
thw help of tools loke boot or lein, to read those two short tutorials:

1. http://www.flyingmachinestudios.com/programming/how-clojure-
babies-are-made-the-java-cycle/

2. http://www.flyingmachinestudios.com/programming/how-clojure-
babies-are-made-lein-run/

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Re: Clojure(script) Contractors in Vancouver?

[Gregg Reynolds]

try #jobs on clojurians slack.

On Aug 25, 2017 3:55 PM, "Scott Klarenbach" 
wrote:

> Hello all,
>
> I'm wondering how many members of this group are interested in doing
> Clojure(script) based contract work?
> We're in Vancouver, BC, and would love to meet with anyone in the area
> looking for gigs and/or fulltime work.
>
> Please email me or phone me if interested.
>
> Apologies if this violates the group etiquette, just figured it would be a
> good place to get the word out.
>
> --
> Regards,
>
> Scott Klarenbach
> Invisible Robot Technologies
> invisiblerobot.io
>
> 604-537-1856 <(604)%20537-1856>
> scott@i nvisiblerobot.io
>
> Suite R - 2404 Guelph Street
> Vancouver, BC, V5T 3P3
>
> ___
> To iterate is human; to recur, divine
>
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Re: Clojure rookie vs parsing

[Gregg Reynolds]

On Aug 15, 2017 7:11 AM,  wrote:


Hi

Months ago I read a review that praised Clojure's clean approach and use of
JVM that is almost always available in my deployments.

My background: started with 370 assembly


hoorah!  HCF!  (check out boot - JCL, done right!)

What I have on my hands is a DSL like this

HeaderRule=hr-ftp
   Term=100
  name="ftp"
  From=1
 networkPort="21"
 Protocol=1
Tcp=1
   up
up
 up
  Then=1
 ProtocolInspection=1
ftpRuleSet="frs-ftp"
up
 ServiceDataFlowId=1
payload=99
up
 up
  up
   up
HeaderRule=hr-http
  ..


are you sure you need a DSL?  dunno what "up" means here but fwiw i've
found that plain ol' clojure data often does the trick, maps, vectors, etc.

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Re: beginning to learn Clojure after imperative programming my whole life

[Gregg Reynolds]

On Aug 9, 2017 7:46 PM, "Luc"  wrote:

The other unpleasant option to climb the learning curve asap is to end up
with a deadline to spit out a product 
I did it, 5 months of pure Hell 


yes, but now you are a badass, no?  it's the only way.

After that the pain went away, either my brain adapted or my nervous system
could not feel it anymore,
can't remember 藍

Luc P.

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Re: beginning to learn Clojure after imperative programming my whole life

[Gregg Reynolds]

On Aug 9, 2017 1:43 PM, "Andy"  wrote:

This feels like a different world.


There's a reason for that.  The conceptual space of languages like clojure
is indeed radically different than the conceptual space of "imperative"
languages.  Think Turing (or maybe VonNeuman) machine v. lambda calculus.
Computationally equivalent, but conceptually very different.


Has anyone experienced a sharp increase in their problem solving abilities
after switching to Clojure?


Yes!  Well, maybe not problem _solving_, but certainly problem _defining_
is more commodious with lambda calc, at least to me.

I have been working my way through Living Clojure an Oreilly book.

My curiosity got the better of me and I wondered if anyone here had some
suggestions for resources/
particular tips/any advice for improving Clojure skills. Does anybody have
any websites used for solving
Clojure problems? other than the most popular ones.


Clojure skills is one thing; skill in computing the lambda way is another
thing.  Lots of good clojure books and websites out there, but don't limit
yourself.  the 2 books that made a diff for me are:

SICP (the Wizard Book):
https://mitpress.mit.edu/sicp/full-text/book/book.html

The Little Schemer: https://mitpress.mit.edu/books/little-schemer

Everything those books teach you applies to Clojure.

hth, g

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Re: :gen-class method signature help

[Gregg Reynolds]

Never mind, I see you tried that in your original code.  ;)

On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 1:03 PM, Gregg Reynolds <d...@mobileink.com> wrote:

>
>
> On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 10:56 AM, Sir Robert Burbridge <sirrob...@gmail.com
> > wrote:
>
>> Didier, thanks for the reply!
>>
>>
>>1. I created a wrapper function like this:  (defn -score [data
>>context] (score data context))
>>2. I tried your suggestion but got an error.  Here's the current
>>state:
>>
>> The JS calling code:
>>
>> function genFixture () {
>>   return new Array(12).fill(parseFloat(Math.random().toFixed(2)));
>> }
>>
>> console.log("Generating fixtures...");
>> var data = genFixture();
>> var contex = new Array(10).fill(1);
>> context.forEach((d,i) => { context[i] = genFixture(); });
>>
>> // This produces, for example, the following fixtures:
>> // data: [ 0.89, 0.89, 0.89, 0.89, 0.89, 0.89, 0.89, 0.89, 0.89, 0.89,
>> 0.89, 0.89 ]
>> // context: [
>> //   [ 0.35, 0.35, 0.35, 0.35, 0.35, 0.35, 0.35, 0.35, 0.35, 0.35, 0.35,
>> 0.35 ],
>> //   [ 0.85, 0.85, 0.85, 0.85, 0.85, 0.85, 0.85, 0.85, 0.85, 0.85, 0.85,
>> 0.85 ],
>> //   ...
>> //   [ 0.31, 0.31, 0.31, 0.31, 0.31, 0.31, 0.31, 0.31, 0.31, 0.31, 0.31,
>> 0.31 ]]
>>
>> const java = require('java');
>> java.classpath.push("./java/alto.score-0.2.0-standalone.jar");
>> console.log("Importing class ...");
>> var score = java.import('alto.score');
>>
>> console.log("Attempting to run score.scoreSync(data, context)");
>> try {
>>   var s = score.scoreSync(data, context);
>> } catch (e) {
>>   console.log("Got an error:", e);
>> }
>>
>>
>> The resulting output looks like this:
>>
>> Generating fixtures...
>> Importing class ...
>> Attempting to run score.scoreSync(data, context)
>> Got an error: Error: Could not find method "score([Ljava.lang.Double;,
>> [Ljava.lang.Object;)" on class "class alto.score". Possible
>>
>>
> You're trying to pass arrays.  What happens if you try
>
> :methods [#^{:static true} [score [[Ljava.lang.Double [Ljava.lang.Object]
> java.util.List]]
>
> Dunno if gen-class will accept that syntax, though.
>
>

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Re: :gen-class method signature help

[Gregg Reynolds]

On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 10:56 AM, Sir Robert Burbridge 
wrote:

> Didier, thanks for the reply!
>
>
>1. I created a wrapper function like this:  (defn -score [data
>context] (score data context))
>2. I tried your suggestion but got an error.  Here's the current state:
>
> The JS calling code:
>
> function genFixture () {
>   return new Array(12).fill(parseFloat(Math.random().toFixed(2)));
> }
>
> console.log("Generating fixtures...");
> var data = genFixture();
> var contex = new Array(10).fill(1);
> context.forEach((d,i) => { context[i] = genFixture(); });
>
> // This produces, for example, the following fixtures:
> // data: [ 0.89, 0.89, 0.89, 0.89, 0.89, 0.89, 0.89, 0.89, 0.89, 0.89,
> 0.89, 0.89 ]
> // context: [
> //   [ 0.35, 0.35, 0.35, 0.35, 0.35, 0.35, 0.35, 0.35, 0.35, 0.35, 0.35,
> 0.35 ],
> //   [ 0.85, 0.85, 0.85, 0.85, 0.85, 0.85, 0.85, 0.85, 0.85, 0.85, 0.85,
> 0.85 ],
> //   ...
> //   [ 0.31, 0.31, 0.31, 0.31, 0.31, 0.31, 0.31, 0.31, 0.31, 0.31, 0.31,
> 0.31 ]]
>
> const java = require('java');
> java.classpath.push("./java/alto.score-0.2.0-standalone.jar");
> console.log("Importing class ...");
> var score = java.import('alto.score');
>
> console.log("Attempting to run score.scoreSync(data, context)");
> try {
>   var s = score.scoreSync(data, context);
> } catch (e) {
>   console.log("Got an error:", e);
> }
>
>
> The resulting output looks like this:
>
> Generating fixtures...
> Importing class ...
> Attempting to run score.scoreSync(data, context)
> Got an error: Error: Could not find method "score([Ljava.lang.Double;,
> [Ljava.lang.Object;)" on class "class alto.score". Possible
>
>
You're trying to pass arrays.  What happens if you try

:methods [#^{:static true} [score [[Ljava.lang.Double [Ljava.lang.Object]
java.util.List]]

Dunno if gen-class will accept that syntax, though.

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Re: [ANN] tools.deps.alpha

[Gregg Reynolds]

On Tue, Jul 25, 2017 at 8:53 PM, Alex Miller  wrote:

> Dumb question of the day: given that Clojurescript evidently (as I
>>> understand) will soon work seamlessly with npm, can (chunks of) this be
>>> extended to cljs?  E.g. (s/def ::providers (s/keys :opt-un [::npm])) or
>>> some such.  Note that I ask without understanding. ;)
>>>
>>
> This effort is really about working on the problem of creating JVM
> classpaths and was not really intended to extend to cljs. Perhaps it could
> be (but I'm not sure where or why that would be useful).
>

Just wondering (in near-total ignorance) about clj/cljs parallels, e.g.
maybe resolve-deps for npm would be useful in cljs.

BTW, minor doc error I think:

resolve-deps

Usage: (resolve-args deps-map resolve-args)
Should that be (resolve-deps ...)?

thanks,

gregg

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Re: [ANN] tools.deps.alpha

[Gregg Reynolds]

On Tue, Jul 25, 2017 at 9:19 AM, Alex Miller  wrote:

> tools.deps.alpha is a new contrib library API for transitive dependency
> graph expansion and the creation of classpaths.
>
> For more information, I would invite you to check out:
>
> * the README
>  from
> tools.deps.alpha
> * the slides
>  from
> my EuroClojure talk (video coming in the next week or two)
>
> There are some additional pieces still to come that will provide
> installers for various systems as well. This is still a work in progress
> but is targeted for completion along with Clojure 1.9.
>
>
Dumb question of the day: given that Clojurescript evidently (as I
understand) will soon work seamlessly with npm, can (chunks of) this be
extended to cljs?  E.g. (s/def ::providers (s/keys :opt-un [::npm])) or
some such.  Note that I ask without understanding. ;)


>
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Re: survey says: web dev

[Gregg Reynolds]

ps. just tried to access the surveymonkey page for the 2016
state-of-clojure survey.  completely unusable on a mobile!  pls consider
switching to a better provider for 2017!

On Jul 15, 2017 3:37 PM, "Gregg Reynolds" <d...@mobileink.com> wrote:

> couple days ago somebody posted the following on the lua list.  questions
> about web stacks/frameworks/etc. are pretty common for clojure, esp. for
> newbies. so ditto for clojure (or: if there is an up-to-date summary of the
> state of clojure web dev pls advise).  maybe these qs or sth similar could
> be included in the next state-of-clojure survey?
>
>
> 1) What framework/toolkit are you currently using?
>
> 2) What web or application server is used in production?
>
> 3) Which version of Lua? (clojure/clojurescript)
>
> 4) On a scale of 1 to 5, how satisfied are you with the stack? (1 =
> actively looking for a replacement, 5 = It's perfect)
>
> i would add:
>
> 5) what's your mix of clojure and clojurescript?
>
> 5b) more generally, how much mixed-language dev do you do?  (i would
> include html, js, and css as mixed language pgming, ymmv.)
>
> 6) do you use react-based stuff?  if so, which libs, and why?
>
> 7) are you using webcomponents?
>
> 8) are you using service workers, http/2, google quic, etc.?  (i.e. the
> cutting edge stuff)
>
> gregg
>
>

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survey says: web dev

[Gregg Reynolds]

couple days ago somebody posted the following on the lua list.  questions
about web stacks/frameworks/etc. are pretty common for clojure, esp. for
newbies. so ditto for clojure (or: if there is an up-to-date summary of the
state of clojure web dev pls advise).  maybe these qs or sth similar could
be included in the next state-of-clojure survey?


1) What framework/toolkit are you currently using?

2) What web or application server is used in production?

3) Which version of Lua? (clojure/clojurescript)

4) On a scale of 1 to 5, how satisfied are you with the stack? (1 =
actively looking for a replacement, 5 = It's perfect)

i would add:

5) what's your mix of clojure and clojurescript?

5b) more generally, how much mixed-language dev do you do?  (i would
include html, js, and css as mixed language pgming, ymmv.)

6) do you use react-based stuff?  if so, which libs, and why?

7) are you using webcomponents?

8) are you using service workers, http/2, google quic, etc.?  (i.e. the
cutting edge stuff)

gregg

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Re: Evolve data / entities over time?

[Gregg Reynolds]

On Mon, Jul 10, 2017 at 1:35 PM, Luke Horton 
wrote:

> This is probably not clojure specific, but it’s a problem for which i’ve
> never really found a satisfying in other languages. Maybe clojure has a
> better opinion on the matter?
>
> How does one evolve/change data (entities) in a system over time without
> also having to change every piece that touches that data?
>
> e.g. if I had an entity “foo”:
> {:a 'a
>  :b 'b
>  :c {:d 'd}}
>
> and I wrote a nice `clojure.spec` for that foo entity, and maybe
> formalized it into a record, anything that needed the data could read
> straight from built in functions:
>
> (get/get-in/... keyword)
>
> I could move one step more formal and write “accessors” for compound data,
> i.e.
>
> (defn get-a-compound [foo] (str (:a foo) (:b foo) (get-in foo [:c :d])
>
> Now at some point I have to change my entity because a business
> requirement changed, or the domain model wasn’t correct the first time.
> Must now everything that touches foo and follows the clojure.spec
> "contract" of the data shape change?
>

I think there's a big difference between "evolution" and "change". If you
add a new field to your map, that's an evolution, and it does not affect
code that works with the original map (evolution preserves useful stuff).
Adding a beak that can crack nuts does not affect ability to fly using your
wings.  But discovering that your model was wrong in the first place is a
different story.  In that case, everything that uses your model is also
wrong, so it stands to reason that changing your model will require
changing all of the code that uses it.  The original, "wrong" model is an
evolutionary dead-end.  The correct version is not really a modification of
the wrong version, it's a different thing.

Using getters/setters (more generally, information hiding) is an
anti-pattern in Clojure, afaik.

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Re: [ANN] Miraj: functional, idiomatic Clojure web programming, including web components

[Gregg Reynolds]

On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 1:37 AM, Jiacai Liu  wrote:

> Cool.
> One question: Is miraj compatible with https://github.com/
> weavejester/hiccup ?
>

If you mean mixing Hiccup and Miraj source code, I doubt it, the approach
is completely different.  I believe Hiccup translates Clojure data
structures into HTML strings.  Miraj uses functions, one per HTML5 element
(plus any custom ones), that evaluate to an XML DOM node (a Clojure
record), which gets serialized at compile time.

If you want to use Miraj components from Hiccup, that should be easy, since
Miraj generates HTML+CSS+Clojurescript.  I added dev and prod target dirs
to one of the demos so you can see:
https://github.com/miraj-project/demos/tree/master/hello-world/acme-widgets.
  Look in the acme subdir of target-dev, target-prod.

HTH,

Gregg

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[ANN] Miraj: functional, idiomatic Clojure web programming, including web components

[Gregg Reynolds]

Hi folks,

The goal of the Miraj project is to  support web programming, including
definition and use of web components (specifically Polymer 1.9.x
 in
this version), in seamless and idiomatic Clojure.  It seems to be somewhere
in the vicinity of Alpha, so I'm looking for feedback and help.

The homepage at https://miraj-project.github.io/ contains high-level docs
and brief examples (and is implemented in Miraj).  I've also got a bunch of
graded and commented demos at
https://github.com/miraj-project/demos/tree/master/hello-world .  I would
be grateful to anybody who gives them a whirl and provides feedback.

Very briefly, it contains a functional HTML library, supports bits of sugar
(e.g. :#foo for id attributes, etc.), and provides macros for defining
pages, components and component libraries, such that the shape of such code
is similar to that of ordinary deftype or defrecord.  It tries to hide and
automate as much low-level detail as possible (e.g. construction of the
 element).

The code it generates could be used in production, but the libraries
themselves should be considered alpha, since they depend on Clojure 1.9.0
alpha, and currently only Polymer version 1 is supported.  There are a few
loose ends in the Polymer support that will only be tied off in version 2.

For help:  I've taken the liberty of creating a #miraj channel on
Clojurians slack; I also monitor this list, #clojure, #clojurescript etc.

Thanks,

Gregg

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Re: New guide: Reading Clojure Characters

[Gregg Reynolds]

On Jun 17, 2017 3:45 PM, "Alex Miller"  wrote:

I cleaned up this section a bit. I favored "unused" over any of the other
choices as I think that's the most accurate.


+1

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Re: New guide: Reading Clojure Characters

[Gregg Reynolds]

On Jun 17, 2017 4:04 PM, "Andy Fingerhut" <andy.finger...@gmail.com> wrote:

I would recommend _against_ using the same parameter name multiple times
like this, for the confusion in people's minds that it can easily create.



completely agree.  the problem is that you _can_ do this.  which means the
language is not quite what it seems to be.


If you avoid this practice, then it is irrelevant why the last value is
used versus an earlier one.

The foo2 function works for the same reason that foo works, because '_' is
just another parameter name, no more or less special to the compiler than
the parameter name 'arg1' or 'f'.

Andy

On Sat, Jun 17, 2017 at 2:01 PM, Gregg Reynolds <d...@mobileink.com> wrote:

>
>
> On Jun 17, 2017 3:36 PM, "Andy Fingerhut" <andy.finger...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> Consider this Clojure 1.8.0 REPL session:
>
> user=> (defn foo [a a] [a a])
>
> #'user/foo
>
> ser=> (foo 1 2)
>
> [2 2]
>
> user=> (defn foo2 [_ _] [_ _])
>
> #'user/foo2
>
> user=> (foo2 1 2)
>
> [2 2]
>
>
> This is the sense in which _ is just another function parameter name, no
> more or less special to the compiler than the parameter name 'a'.  There is
> no requirement in the Clojure compiler that parameter names are unique.
>
>
> thanks.  tried to do that on some of the online clj thingies, no luck.
>
> personally i view this as one of those clojure wierdisms that annoy newbs.
>  very counter-intuitive, imho.  why shouldn't the 1st arg be used?  and
> your foo2 - the fn definition, strictly speaking, makes no sense. if it
> works, i think we need to explain explicitly why.  maybe not in the section
> on '_', but somewhere.
>
> Andy
>
> On Sat, Jun 17, 2017 at 12:16 PM, Gregg Reynolds <d...@mobileink.com>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Jun 17, 2017 1:55 PM, "Timothy Baldridge" <tbaldri...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Anonymous implies there might be some sort of auto gen going on (as there
>> is with anonymous functions), Irrelevant has my vote therefore. The other
>> characteristics are a side-effect of it being a naming convention (with no
>> official support by the compiler).
>>
>>
>> yeah, i could go either way, although i might change "var" to "arg" - is
>> '_' ever a var?  actually i'm thinking "nonce arg" would be more accurate,
>> but then i'm a naming fanatic so take it with a grain of salt.
>>
>> Maybe that could be pointed out in greater detail. So maybe an edit along
>> the lines of:
>>
>> "Note: _ does not have special functionality in the compiler, it is seen
>> the same as any other local or arg, therefore the same rules of uniqueness
>> and precedence apply with _ as they would with any other symbol"
>>
>>
>> i might not understand the rules but my understanding is that '_' (as an
>> arg) is outside of the uniqueness (obviously) and precedence rules.  i'm
>> not understanding the point of your suggested edit, i guess.  thinking from
>> a newbie perspective.  are you saying that each '_' gets a gen-sym, so each
>> ends up being unique?
>>
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Re: New guide: Reading Clojure Characters

[Gregg Reynolds]

On Jun 17, 2017 3:36 PM, "Andy Fingerhut" <andy.finger...@gmail.com> wrote:

Consider this Clojure 1.8.0 REPL session:

user=> (defn foo [a a] [a a])

#'user/foo

ser=> (foo 1 2)

[2 2]

user=> (defn foo2 [_ _] [_ _])

#'user/foo2

user=> (foo2 1 2)

[2 2]


This is the sense in which _ is just another function parameter name, no
more or less special to the compiler than the parameter name 'a'.  There is
no requirement in the Clojure compiler that parameter names are unique.


thanks.  tried to do that on some of the online clj thingies, no luck.

personally i view this as one of those clojure wierdisms that annoy newbs.
 very counter-intuitive, imho.  why shouldn't the 1st arg be used?  and
your foo2 - the fn definition, strictly speaking, makes no sense. if it
works, i think we need to explain explicitly why.  maybe not in the section
on '_', but somewhere.

Andy

On Sat, Jun 17, 2017 at 12:16 PM, Gregg Reynolds <d...@mobileink.com> wrote:

>
>
> On Jun 17, 2017 1:55 PM, "Timothy Baldridge" <tbaldri...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Anonymous implies there might be some sort of auto gen going on (as there
> is with anonymous functions), Irrelevant has my vote therefore. The other
> characteristics are a side-effect of it being a naming convention (with no
> official support by the compiler).
>
>
> yeah, i could go either way, although i might change "var" to "arg" - is
> '_' ever a var?  actually i'm thinking "nonce arg" would be more accurate,
> but then i'm a naming fanatic so take it with a grain of salt.
>
> Maybe that could be pointed out in greater detail. So maybe an edit along
> the lines of:
>
> "Note: _ does not have special functionality in the compiler, it is seen
> the same as any other local or arg, therefore the same rules of uniqueness
> and precedence apply with _ as they would with any other symbol"
>
>
> i might not understand the rules but my understanding is that '_' (as an
> arg) is outside of the uniqueness (obviously) and precedence rules.  i'm
> not understanding the point of your suggested edit, i guess.  thinking from
> a newbie perspective.  are you saying that each '_' gets a gen-sym, so each
> ends up being unique?
>
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Re: New guide: Reading Clojure Characters

[Gregg Reynolds]

On Jun 17, 2017 1:55 PM, "Timothy Baldridge"  wrote:

Anonymous implies there might be some sort of auto gen going on (as there
is with anonymous functions), Irrelevant has my vote therefore. The other
characteristics are a side-effect of it being a naming convention (with no
official support by the compiler).


yeah, i could go either way, although i might change "var" to "arg" - is
'_' ever a var?  actually i'm thinking "nonce arg" would be more accurate,
but then i'm a naming fanatic so take it with a grain of salt.

Maybe that could be pointed out in greater detail. So maybe an edit along
the lines of:

"Note: _ does not have special functionality in the compiler, it is seen
the same as any other local or arg, therefore the same rules of uniqueness
and precedence apply with _ as they would with any other symbol"


i might not understand the rules but my understanding is that '_' (as an
arg) is outside of the uniqueness (obviously) and precedence rules.  i'm
not understanding the point of your suggested edit, i guess.  thinking from
a newbie perspective.  are you saying that each '_' gets a gen-sym, so each
ends up being unique?

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Re: New guide: Reading Clojure Characters

[Gregg Reynolds]

On Jun 17, 2017 1:27 PM, "Alex Miller"  wrote:

A new guide is available on the Clojure site:

https://clojure.org/guides/weird_characters


suggestion: for '_' , Anonymous might be better than Irrelevant.  Also,
maybe explicitly note that multiple _ are allowed.  ie it has 2
characteristics: you cannot reference it in body, and you can have more
than one.

should i put suggestions to the list or jira or?

-g

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Re: New guide: Reading Clojure Characters

[Gregg Reynolds]

On Jun 17, 2017 1:27 PM, "Alex Miller"  wrote:

A new guide is available on the Clojure site:

https://clojure.org/guides/weird_characters


+ 111...

one question: the explanation of `%` uses macroexpand but shows eg arg1,
arg2, etc.  wouldn't those be gen-symed?

thanks, gregg

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Re: Spec without global registry?

[Gregg Reynolds]

On Jun 12, 2017 4:55 PM, "Alex Miller"  wrote:

I think it's your responsibility to make specs "sufficiently unique".
Prefixing with a standard namespace you control seems like it would work.


pls excuse me for butting in, but i wonder what happens when i require 14
namespaces and 7 of them register foo.bar/baz in the global registry? who
wins? we don't have this prob with vars; if i require foo.bar and foo.baz,
and they both define x, no prob.  but spec namespacing is different, no?
 the namespace you use for a spec is independent of the ns in which you
define/specify it.  which defeats the purpose of namespacing.  clojure
namespacing is controlled; spec namespacing is not.  which leads me to
think that maybe spec registries should be namespaced, just like everything
else.


There is an enhancement winding through jira to support the ability to
remove a spec from the registry by doing (s/def ::foo nil) and I expect
that to go in soon. https://dev.clojure.org/jira/browse/CLJ-2060



On Monday, June 12, 2017 at 4:26:14 PM UTC-5, Mark wrote:
>
> > What problem would be solved by each customer having his own registry?
>
> Name clashes (to be fair, elsewhere on this thread, Sean Corfield
> suggested prefixing and this would certainly work).
>
> > What do you mean by retracting specs? And what problem would this solve?
>
> Retracting a spec means that it's not in use anymore. In this instance,
> I'm just imagining my users' requirements.  I can foresee them wanted to
> indicate that a particular spec is no longer in use.  I suppose I could
> always "change" the spec to be (constantly false).
>
>
>
> On Monday, June 12, 2017 at 2:06:26 PM UTC-7, Alan Forrester wrote:
>>
>> On 12 Jun 2017, at 20:41, Mark  wrote:
>>
>> > > I don't see how that limits it to dev use cases. Can you explain more
>> why you say that?
>> >
>> > I understand (and completely agree with) the assumption of a global
>> namespace for spec names.  The scope of that namespace is all Clojure
>> developers.  I want a different scope:  the users of my app.  To continue
>> on this thinking, if my app was shared among different customers, each
>> customer would have their own namespace - their own registry.
>>
>> What problem would be solved by each customer having his own registry?
>>
>> >  Further, I suspect that the lifecycle for specs in my app's scope will
>> be a bit different than the Clojure developer scope.  Specifically, I can
>> see that some customers will insist on retracting specs.
>>
>> What do you mean by retracting specs? And what problem would this solve?
>>
>> Alan
>
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Re: Spec without global registry?

[Gregg Reynolds]

On Jun 10, 2017 11:57 AM, "Mark"  wrote:

I'm embarking on a new project and I think spec can be a central component
not just to the developer-users of the system but to my end-users as well.
I'm thinking of providing something like a graphical mechanism to describe
specs in EDN to bring spec goodness to user created data pipelines.  My
only concern is the global registry.  Quickly browsing spec alpha-17's
code, it appears the that global registry is an implementation detail of
the map spec and, perhaps, others.

Would it make sense to provide an additional arity for the conform*,
unform* and explain* fns which take a user-supplied registry?


what about using a global config var like *spec-registry* to control which
registry gets used?

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Re: slackpocalypse? next steps?

[Gregg Reynolds]

On May 25, 2017 2:43 PM, "Luke Burton"  wrote:


I put together this "survey" a few days ago in the hope of starting to
collect some structured feedback on the pros and cons of each service. Very
much along the lines of what you're saying – I expect the end result would
be "people have diverse needs and each service satisfies a different need",
but it's nice to go through an exercise like this anyway, to proactively
think about what those needs are.

Unfortunately I have not had time to drive this further, but if anyone
would like to jump in and help that would be cool.

https://gist.github.com/hagmonk/284b1f2a6e5162f5b5a1b54cfa821318


here's a free hug for you ({[]}).

-g

p.s.  could we pretty please not top post?

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Re: slackpocalypse?

[Gregg Reynolds]

On Mon, May 22, 2017 at 8:02 AM, Herwig Hochleitner <hhochleit...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> 2017-05-22 0:28 GMT+02:00 Gregg Reynolds <d...@mobileink.com>:
>
>>
>> Took a quick look.  I must say the UI is not particularly impressive.  So
>> far, I find discord much more intuitive.
>>
>
> If discord was decentralized _and_ open source, then I'd say we could have
> this comparison.
>

Yikes.  I had assumed it was open, since that's the motivation for moving
off slack, and didn't bother to look.

>
> As it is, I'd much rather forfeit some user-friendliness and take the
> opportunity to improve one of the various clients or write my own (how many
> clients does discord offer? http://matrix.org/docs/
> projects/try-matrix-now.html) over getting locked into yet another
> proprietary silo and finding myself at yet another dead-end sooner or later.
>

Took a closer look - now I remember where I saw matrix before, they
participate in tadhacks <https://tadhack.com/2017/>.  It's not really an
app, much more ambitious than that.  Definitely deserves a closer look.

G


>
> Also, development is steady and I've already witnessed some pretty cool
> improvements over the short months I'm using it.
> Also, it can immediately replace your IRC client (thanks to its IRC
> bridge) and even give you message persistence as an added benefit, in
> effect it can already be your IRC bouncer without you running anything.
>
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Re: slackpocalypse?

[Gregg Reynolds]

On Fri, May 19, 2017 at 7:46 AM, Herwig Hochleitner 
wrote:

> As I said in the other thread, let's migrate to matrix.org:
> https://riot.im/app/#/room/#clojure:matrix.org
> There, if the official servers ever get overloaded/dropped/monetized, we
> can just start hosting our own server without loosing any history.
> Also it has no message limit and full searchability.
>

Took a quick look.  I must say the UI is not particularly impressive.  So
far, I find discord much more intuitive.

> ​
>
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Re: slackpocalypse?

[Gregg Reynolds]

just for fun i posted a mini-survey on #clojure (on slack clojurians)
asking more or less, "should we dump slack?"

after almost 24 hours, the results are in:

yea: 7

nay: 3

chicken:  5

a whopping response rate of 15 out of about 10K!

Conclusion: not perceived as a big issue.

On May 20, 2017 12:21 PM, "Mars0i"  wrote:

Slack is working for me today.  There are posts in the Clojure channel, for
example, from just two hours ago.  Maybe the end of the world didn't
occur?  On the other hand, the Specter channel says only "To see this
channel's full history, upgrade to one of our paid plans."  I'm not sure I
understand.  Is the idea that old posts are simply getting dropped to
retain no more than 10K posts, and there have been 10K since the last
Specter post?  I'm a little bit confused by the whole situation.  I was a
latecomer to Slack, and still don't use it as much as some other folks.
Did we start using Slack knowing that one day it would be cut off when
there were too many posts?

(I haven't tried the new Discord group yet, and as I've said earlier, have
no opinions about relative benefits of different post-IRC platforms.  I've
also heard positive things about Gitter btw; it wasn't mentioned earlier in
this thread.  I do think there might be benefit to using fewer rather than
more of these options.)



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Re: slackpocalypse?

[Gregg Reynolds]

On May 19, 2017 2:57 PM, "Alex Miller" <a...@puredanger.com> wrote:


On Friday, May 19, 2017 at 2:27:35 PM UTC-5, Gregg Reynolds wrote:
>
>
> I'm inclined to think moving away from slack would be wise, but only with
> the blessing of the core Clojure team.  After all any of us could set up
> something on matrix or discourse etc. but if successful that would lead to
> fragmentation of the community.
>
> I wonder what the thinking within the core team is on this.
>

Our "official" channels for Clojure discussion are the clojure,
clojurescript, and clojure-dev mailing lists. We moderate and maintain
these lists.

The Clojure/core team has no involvement with the creation or management of
the Clojurians Slack channel. The community does not need our blessing to
set up a discussion forum - we're happy to have more places for Clojure
folks to talk about Clojure. I'd rather have the community decide what they
want to do - we (the core team) are not looking to add additional
moderation/admin duties beyond what we currently do.


gee, why not?  ;)

Perhaps the new group that was established under the Software Freedom
Conservancy could be of assistance in choosing and managing a preferred
forum.


link?

I don't have time to figger out how to do this correctly at the moment, but
some kind of survey of folks on the various comm. channels seems to be in
order. Some topics, loosely: given what we (think we) know about slack, is
that a prob?  if we wanted to go elsewhere, where would that be?  if we did
go elsewhere, would you, too?  etc.  Volunteers?

moving from slack to sth else would be a big job.


I personally monitor (to varying degrees): the mailing lists, Slack,
#clojure on irc, clojure subreddit, and Twitter and try to answer questions
in those locations based on my available time to do so.


for the record you and your colleagues (including all the volunteers) do an
amazing job!

Alex


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Re: slackpocalypse?

[Gregg Reynolds]

On May 19, 2017 2:11 PM, "'Lee Spector' via Clojure" <
clojure@googlegroups.com> wrote:


FWIW my research group used Slack for a while, but we switched to Discourse
close to two years ago and have been quite happy with it (
https://push-language.hampshire.edu, although only a tiny subset is
publicly viewable).

We're a much smaller community, with different needs, but still, I can
attest to Discourse being nice in several ways. Among other things, it
seems to encourage more deliberative interactions than I generally see on
Slack, with a better mix of rapid communication with longer-term
documentation.


I'm inclined to think moving away from slack would be wise, but only with
the blessing of the core Clojure team.  After all any of us could set up
something on matrix or discourse etc. but if successful that would lead to
fragmentation of the community.

I wonder what the thinking within the core team is on this.

g

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Re: slackpocalypse?

[Gregg Reynolds]

On May 18, 2017 5:06 PM, "Timothy Baldridge"  wrote:

You know, there's this awesome bit of tech called IRC...someone should
check that out.


there's also this "email" thing people are talking about, but i don't
really understand it.  a series of tubes of some kind, i gather.

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Re: slackpocalypse?

[Gregg Reynolds]

On May 18, 2017 5:06 PM, "Timothy Baldridge" <tbaldri...@gmail.com> wrote:

You know, there's this awesome bit of tech called IRC...someone should
check that out.


that is so 90s!


On Thu, May 18, 2017 at 3:31 PM, Gregg Reynolds <d...@mobileink.com> wrote:

> looks like access is restored, for me at least.  still, slack is making me
> a little nervous. and that's in addition to the 10K msg limit, which is a
> pain.  anybody know antything about ryver? https://ryver.com/ryver
> -vs-slack/
>
> On May 18, 2017 3:15 PM, "Gregg Reynolds" <d...@mobileink.com> wrote:
>
>> is it just me? i've been unable to connect to clojurians (by cellphone)
>> for about 30 minutes, but i can connect to other slack groups.
>>
>> have we hit https://github.com/clojurians/clojurians-chat/wiki/Slack
>> pocalypse?  we're almost to 10K subscribers.
>>
>> g
>>
>>
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Re: slackpocalypse?

[Gregg Reynolds]

looks like access is restored, for me at least.  still, slack is making me
a little nervous. and that's in addition to the 10K msg limit, which is a
pain.  anybody know antything about ryver? https://ryver.com/ryver-vs-slack/

On May 18, 2017 3:15 PM, "Gregg Reynolds" <d...@mobileink.com> wrote:

> is it just me? i've been unable to connect to clojurians (by cellphone)
> for about 30 minutes, but i can connect to other slack groups.
>
> have we hit https://github.com/clojurians/clojurians-chat/
> wiki/Slackpocalypse?  we're almost to 10K subscribers.
>
> g
>
>
>

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Re: slackpocalypse?

[Gregg Reynolds]

On May 18, 2017 3:40 PM, "Dragan Djuric" <draga...@gmail.com> wrote:

It works for me as always.


hmm, maybe it's a hiccup.  where are you located, if you don't mind my
asking.


On Thursday, May 18, 2017 at 10:34:33 PM UTC+2, Gregg Reynolds wrote:
>
>
>
> On May 18, 2017 3:32 PM, "Jason Stewart" <jste...@fusionary.com> wrote:
>
> I'm experiencing the same thing, while I am able to connect with my other
> slack teams.
>
>
> this is not looking good.  https://davechen.net/2017/01/slack-user-limit/
>
>
> On Thu, May 18, 2017 at 4:17 PM, Kenny Williams <kenny...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> I am not able to connect via the web UI or Slack app either.
>>
>>
>> On Thursday, May 18, 2017 at 1:15:17 PM UTC-7, Gregg Reynolds wrote:
>>>
>>> is it just me? i've been unable to connect to clojurians (by cellphone)
>>> for about 30 minutes, but i can connect to other slack groups.
>>>
>>> have we hit https://github.com/clojurians/clojurians-chat/wiki/
>>> Slackpocalypse?  we're almost to 10K subscribers.
>>>
>>> g
>>>
>>>
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Re: slackpocalypse?

[Gregg Reynolds]

On May 18, 2017 3:32 PM, "Jason Stewart" <jstew...@fusionary.com> wrote:

I'm experiencing the same thing, while I am able to connect with my other
slack teams.


this is not looking good.  https://davechen.net/2017/01/slack-user-limit/


On Thu, May 18, 2017 at 4:17 PM, Kenny Williams <kennyjwi...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> I am not able to connect via the web UI or Slack app either.
>
>
> On Thursday, May 18, 2017 at 1:15:17 PM UTC-7, Gregg Reynolds wrote:
>>
>> is it just me? i've been unable to connect to clojurians (by cellphone)
>> for about 30 minutes, but i can connect to other slack groups.
>>
>> have we hit https://github.com/clojurians/clojurians-chat/wiki/Slack
>> pocalypse?  we're almost to 10K subscribers.
>>
>> g
>>
>>
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Re: slackpocalypse?

[Gregg Reynolds]

On May 18, 2017 3:17 PM, "Kenny Williams" <kennyjwi...@gmail.com> wrote:

I am not able to connect via the web UI or Slack app either.


slack = bitkeeper?  i wonder if linus torvalds is busy.


On Thursday, May 18, 2017 at 1:15:17 PM UTC-7, Gregg Reynolds wrote:
>
> is it just me? i've been unable to connect to clojurians (by cellphone)
> for about 30 minutes, but i can connect to other slack groups.
>
> have we hit https://github.com/clojurians/clojurians-chat/wiki/
> Slackpocalypse?  we're almost to 10K subscribers.
>
> g
>
>
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slackpocalypse?

[Gregg Reynolds]

is it just me? i've been unable to connect to clojurians (by cellphone) for
about 30 minutes, but i can connect to other slack groups.

have we hit
https://github.com/clojurians/clojurians-chat/wiki/Slackpocalypse?  we're
almost to 10K subscribers.

g

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Re: clojure/script iot

[Gregg Reynolds]

On Apr 26, 2017 2:05 PM, "Gregg Reynolds" <d...@mobileink.com> wrote:

just came across this, which may be of interest to clojurians interested in
iot:

https://www.zephyrproject.org/community/blog/introducing-
javascript-runtime-zephyr-os

builds on http://jerryscript.net

where there is js there is cljs.  how nice!

haven't found time yet to try either; anybody else?


p.s. the interesting point being that zephyr.js supports ocf/oic/iotivity.

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clojure/script iot

[Gregg Reynolds]

just came across this, which may be of interest to clojurians interested in
iot:

https://www.zephyrproject.org/community/blog/introducing-javascript-runtime-zephyr-os

builds on http://jerryscript.net

where there is js there is cljs.  how nice!

haven't found time yet to try either; anybody else?

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Re: Clojure resume tips?

[Gregg Reynolds]

On Apr 18, 2017 2:16 PM, "Jason Basanese"  wrote:

Thanks, I have been told this before. After hearing it a couple more times
I am taking it much closer to heart.


also check-out #jobs-discuss on the clojurians slack thing.  this kind of
question would be welcome there, i think.

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Re: was Re: ANN: Orchestra, complete instrumentation for clojure.spec

[Gregg Reynolds]

On Apr 8, 2017 3:47 PM, "Gregg Reynolds" <d...@mobileink.com> wrote:



On Apr 7, 2017 9:57 PM, "Didier" <didi...@gmail.com> wrote:

 | I think you missed my point, which is only "Spec is great as we have the
power of Clojure" - sure, just don't forget you have the power of ANOther
language in that language as well.

Hum, I've probably missed your point sorry, I'm still not following.

 | no, this will, or at least should, be caught. 10/0 is not an int, and
typed "/' would reject 0 as an ill-typed denominator.

In most static type systems this will not be caught, because they don't
have a fraction type.


"most" -ok.  that's empirical, eww!

So this is actually a function that takes two number types, and 0 is a
number too, so it will type check, but throw an exception at runtime.


maybe my mind has been twisted by dependent types. imho a definition of
"div" that accepts 0 as denominator is a bad defn, or at least a non-typed
defn.  "10/0" is ill-typed. this is obvious mathematically, right? division
by zero is undefined.  it's not really a question of "fraction types"; just
rewrite as (div 10 0).  you do not need a fraction type to define "/". what
you need is a type that does not include zero.


i would add that if you want real static typing you're almost forced to
support dependent types. unless you want a defn of static typing that
includes a great big "well, except for..  " clause.  like a fn that is only
defined for 0..9.


g

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Re: was Re: ANN: Orchestra, complete instrumentation for clojure.spec

[Gregg Reynolds]

On Apr 7, 2017 9:57 PM, "Didier"  wrote:

 | I think you missed my point, which is only "Spec is great as we have the
power of Clojure" - sure, just don't forget you have the power of ANOther
language in that language as well.

Hum, I've probably missed your point sorry, I'm still not following.

 | no, this will, or at least should, be caught. 10/0 is not an int, and
typed "/' would reject 0 as an ill-typed denominator.

In most static type systems this will not be caught, because they don't
have a fraction type.


"most" -ok.  that's empirical, eww!

So this is actually a function that takes two number types, and 0 is a
number too, so it will type check, but throw an exception at runtime.


maybe my mind has been twisted by dependent types. imho a definition of
"div" that accepts 0 as denominator is a bad defn, or at least a non-typed
defn.  "10/0" is ill-typed. this is obvious mathematically, right? division
by zero is undefined.  it's not really a question of "fraction types"; just
rewrite as (div 10 0).  you do not need a fraction type to define "/". what
you need is a type that does not include zero.

g

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Re: was Re: ANN: Orchestra, complete instrumentation for clojure.spec

[Gregg Reynolds]

On Apr 6, 2017 3:47 PM, "Raoul Duke"  wrote:

I am writing to ignorantly sincerely ask how spec + Orchestra compares to
other statically typed out of the box JVM languages. What are the succint
wins over not Scala shudder but eg Kotlin Ceylon, heck Frege, et. al.?


i could be wrong, but i do not view spec as a type system.  more like the
dual of a type system. clojure does not do types, strictly speaking.  there
are lots of reasons to like it, but "it types" is not one of them.  spec
does not change this.

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Re: was Re: ANN: Orchestra, complete instrumentation for clojure.spec

[Gregg Reynolds]

On Apr 7, 2017 12:07 AM, "Didier"  wrote:



Types are not very precise though, like it will catch 10/"123", but not
10/0, because the type isn't more precise then int.


no, this will, or at least should, be caught. 10/0 is not an int, and typed
"/' would reject 0 as an ill-typed denominator.

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Re: [ANN] New Clojure story pages on clojure.org

[Gregg Reynolds]

On Apr 6, 2017 2:17 PM, "Luke Burton" <luke_bur...@me.com> wrote:


On Apr 6, 2017, at 12:12 PM, Gregg Reynolds <d...@mobileink.com> wrote:



On Apr 6, 2017 2:10 PM, "Gregg Reynolds" <d...@mobileink.com> wrote:



On Apr 6, 2017 2:08 PM, "Gregg Reynolds" <d...@mobileink.com> wrote:



On Apr 6, 2017 1:55 PM, "Luke Burton" <luke_bur...@me.com> wrote:


Where's Azerbaijan? Seriously, this was a fantastic story:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zM5fDN_AHY


looks great. i'd like to believe it, but i'm an amercn in 2017 , i buleeve
nuthink. when i poke around on that link i get nuttin.  maybe it's my
android, but when i tap the story i get a completely different video.
 where is this wondrous azaerbaijani thing?


maybe the site is screwed up? when i click play i get derek slager's video.

or it could be operator error. ;)


Huh, I triple checked the URL and it's definitely showing up as
https://youtu.be/-zM5fDN_AHY.

Here's a page from the conference which links the talk (and the link is the
same there).

http://www.lambdadays.org/lambdadays2017/emin-hasanov

Yeah I blame Android :)


it's reliably!  i think i've figured out what i did wrong, just annoyed
again that they don't include links in a simple way - i cannot sit thru
videos for info, drives me nuts. prose is ao much more efficient.

- dinosaur g

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Re: [ANN] New Clojure story pages on clojure.org

[Gregg Reynolds]

On Apr 6, 2017 2:10 PM, "Gregg Reynolds" <d...@mobileink.com> wrote:



On Apr 6, 2017 2:08 PM, "Gregg Reynolds" <d...@mobileink.com> wrote:



On Apr 6, 2017 1:55 PM, "Luke Burton" <luke_bur...@me.com> wrote:


Where's Azerbaijan? Seriously, this was a fantastic story:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zM5fDN_AHY


looks great. i'd like to believe it, but i'm an amercn in 2017 , i buleeve
nuthink. when i poke around on that link i get nuttin.  maybe it's my
android, but when i tap the story i get a completely different video.
 where is this wondrous azaerbaijani thing?


maybe the site is screwed up? when i click play i get derek slager's video.

or it could be operator error. ;)

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Re: [ANN] New Clojure story pages on clojure.org

[Gregg Reynolds]

On Apr 6, 2017 2:08 PM, "Gregg Reynolds" <d...@mobileink.com> wrote:



On Apr 6, 2017 1:55 PM, "Luke Burton" <luke_bur...@me.com> wrote:


Where's Azerbaijan? Seriously, this was a fantastic story:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zM5fDN_AHY


looks great. i'd like to believe it, but i'm an amercn in 2017 , i buleeve
nuthink. when i poke around on that link i get nuttin.  maybe it's my
android, but when i tap the story i get a completely different video.
 where is this wondrous azaerbaijani thing?


maybe the site is screwed up? when i click play i get derek slager's video.

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Re: [ANN] New Clojure story pages on clojure.org

[Gregg Reynolds]

On Apr 6, 2017 1:55 PM, "Luke Burton" <luke_bur...@me.com> wrote:


Where's Azerbaijan? Seriously, this was a fantastic story:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zM5fDN_AHY


looks great. i'd like to believe it, but i'm an amercn in 2017 , i buleeve
nuthink. when i poke around on that link i get nuttin.  maybe it's my
android, but when i tap the story i get a completely different video.
 where is this wondrous azaerbaijani thing?


On Apr 6, 2017, at 11:46 AM, Gregg Reynolds <d...@mobileink.com> wrote:



On Apr 6, 2017 7:12 AM, "Jon Pither" <j...@juxt.pro> wrote:

We have also maintained a set of complimentary success stories here:
https://juxt.pro/clojure-in.html. The more Clojure success stories the
merrier!


love the i18n-ism!

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Re: [ANN] New Clojure story pages on clojure.org

[Gregg Reynolds]

On Apr 6, 2017 7:12 AM, "Jon Pither"  wrote:

We have also maintained a set of complimentary success stories here:
https://juxt.pro/clojure-in.html. The more Clojure success stories the
merrier!


love the i18n-ism!

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Re: spec docs

[Gregg Reynolds]

On Mon, Apr 3, 2017 at 6:20 PM, Gregg Reynolds <d...@mobileink.com> wrote:

>
>
> On Mon, Apr 3, 2017 at 5:38 PM, Sean Corfield <s...@corfield.org> wrote:
>
>> For clojure.org, the source is on GitHub, and you can submit a Pull
>> Request (as long as you have a CA on file I believe?). The clojure.spec
>> Guide page is:
>>
>>
>>
>> https://github.com/clojure/clo
>> jure-site/blob/master/content/guides/spec.adoc
>>
>>
>>
>> You could draft a PR for an enhancement to the Entity Maps section…
>>
>>
>> Thanks, didn't know about that.
>

So it would be better to just sub a PR for the docs than to make a Jira
ticket, I reckon. ?

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Re: spec docs

[Gregg Reynolds]

On Mon, Apr 3, 2017 at 5:38 PM, Sean Corfield  wrote:

> For clojure.org, the source is on GitHub, and you can submit a Pull
> Request (as long as you have a CA on file I believe?). The clojure.spec
> Guide page is:
>
>
>
> https://github.com/clojure/clojure-site/blob/master/
> content/guides/spec.adoc
>
>
>
> You could draft a PR for an enhancement to the Entity Maps section…
>
>
> Thanks, didn't know about that.

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Re: ANN: Cognitect acquired by Microsoft

[Gregg Reynolds]

On Mon, Apr 3, 2017 at 5:19 PM, Matthew Boston <matthew.bos...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Not believable at all.
>
> Everyone knows Cognitect will be acquired by Oracle 
>

Haha.  Or maybe Cognitect will acquire Microsoft.  Stranger things have
happened, heh.


>
> On Saturday, April 1, 2017 at 2:00:16 PM UTC-6, Gregg Reynolds wrote:
>>
>> made ya look!
>>
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spec docs

[Gregg Reynolds]

i think the spec docs could be improved; my question is whether suggestions
should go into jira.  one can always write a blog post, and one does not
want to pollute jira.  case in point: validating maps, in particular taking
some action if a map contains an unrecognized key. it might be fine to do
nothing, but in many cases you want to at least emit a warning.  minimum
case: user just misspells an optional key, and then wonders why it doesn't
work.

there are various ways to do this, i expect. i just discovered that you can
use s/and with s/keys plus a (fn [x] .. ) predicate - but if you do not
include the s/keys bit, the checker will not recur. seems to me that this
kind of thing merits at least a mention in the official docs.

-gregg

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Re: ANN: Cognitect acquired by Microsoft

[Gregg Reynolds]

On Apr 1, 2017 3:31 PM,  wrote:


I was completely horrified when I saw the title. Truly a moment when the
Empire wins and the Rebels are defeated.


fwiw i was completely taken in by this:


https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/semantic-web/2017Apr/.html

i saw the subject line, thought "those guys are idiots" and did not bother
to tead the msg.

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Re: ANN: Cognitect acquired by Microsoft

[Gregg Reynolds]

On Apr 1, 2017 3:31 PM,  wrote:


I was completely horrified when I saw the title. Truly a moment when the
Empire wins and the Rebels are defeated.


heh heh

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Re: ANN: Cognitect acquired by Microsoft

[Gregg Reynolds]

On Apr 1, 2017 3:08 PM, "Joe R. Smith" <j...@uwcreations.com> wrote:

Beware the 1st of April.


somebody had to do it. :)


---
Joseph Smith
j...@uwcreations.com
@solussd


On Apr 1, 2017, at 3:00 PM, Gregg Reynolds <d...@mobileink.com> wrote:

made ya look!

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ANN: Cognitect acquired by Microsoft

[Gregg Reynolds]

made ya look!

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Re: Compiling gen-class runs static initializers: workarounds, solutions?

[Gregg Reynolds]

give clojurians a try on slack.  monitoring that and this list i get the
impression that helpful people do not necessarily work both fora.

On Mar 27, 2017 11:00 AM, "lonign via Clojure" <clojure@googlegroups.com>
wrote:

> Hi Gregg,
>
> I've have tried them, but have not been able to get anything that will
> compile, let alone run.
>
> On Sunday, March 26, 2017 at 5:15:52 PM UTC-4, Gregg Reynolds wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> On Jan 2, 2015 12:36 PM, "David James" <david...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> I have a problem when compiling while using gen-class with static
>> initializers. I use gen-class to extend a JavaFX 8 class,
>> javafx.scene.control.Control. During compilation, a static initializer
>> is run, raising an exception saying that the JavaFX toolkit has not been
>> initialized. I'm going to share what I've read, since this issue seems to
>> pop up from time to time, and see if there are better solutions than
>> currently posted online. Here are my questions and comments:
>>
>>- Is there a way to run code during compilation that fires before the
>>static initializers? I could use this as a workaround to initialize the
>>toolkit.
>>- Is there a way to stop the static initializers from being run? This
>>would solve the problem.
>>- More broadly, is is necessary for gen-class to run the static
>>initializers during compilation? I recently read over CLJ-1315:
>>"Problem: When classes are imported in Clojure, the class is loaded using
>>Class.forName(), which causes its static initialisers to be executed. This
>>differs from Java where compilation does not cause classes to be loaded." 
>> I
>>wonder if a similar approach should be used with Clojure's gen-class.
>>
>> Related discussions:
>>
>>- JIRA: CLJ-1315 <http://dev.clojure.org/jira/browse/CLJ-1315>
>>- Compilation question - why initialize classes when loading for
>>compilation?
>>
>> <https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/clojure/static$20initializers/clojure/Qd9KTKwqsOA/OigoOrcmoAkJ>
>>- Stack Overflow: How can a static initializer be defined using
>>gen-class
>>
>> <http://stackoverflow.com/questions/11783736/how-can-a-static-initializer-be-defined-using-gen-class>
>>- Stack Overflow: Clojure can't import JavaFX classes with static
>>initializers
>>
>> <http://stackoverflow.com/questions/23365409/clojure-cant-import-javafx-classes-with-static-initializers>
>>
>> Thanks,
>> David
>>
>>
>> just curious, have you tried using :init/:constructors in gen-class?
>>
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Re: [ANN] meet postagga, a new lib for natural language processing

[Gregg Reynolds]

On Mar 13, 2017 8:24 AM, "Rafik NACCACHE"  wrote:

Hey guys,
I am pleased to share my new lib, capable of training models that help
parse natural language !
My french-speaking friends will find it extremely useful as I did some work
to provide some french models!
Besides, it is pure clojure, no open-nlp whatsoover, so it will happily run
on clojure and clojurescript!
I would be glad if you can give it a shot here:
https://github.com/turbopape/postagga
Cheers !


looks very cool. but no arabic!?  me wants arabic!

g

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Re: Clojure resume tips?

[Gregg Reynolds]

On Mar 23, 2017 12:10 PM, "Jason Basanese"  wrote:

Attached is a fairly bad resume that I am using. Any tips on how I might
change it to appeal to more places that are looking for functional
developers?


nobody ever gets hired on the strength of their resume. at best they get an
interview. almost every hire for an interesting job comes from personal
connection. forget your resume and start networking, contributing to os
projects, wtc.

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Re: Clojure resume tips?

[Gregg Reynolds]

On Mar 23, 2017 2:00 PM, "Mark Engelberg"  wrote:

On Thu, Mar 23, 2017 at 11:24 AM, Luke Burton  wrote:

>
> * So … if I was in your position, knowing what I know now, if I couldn't
> find companies that had very progressive hiring practices, I would make my
> resume stand out by leading in with an offer to spend a few hours writing a
> small implementation of anything the hiring manager would like me to write.
> Many hiring mangers are scared by take home projects because they're afraid
> of what the best candidate will think. "It's an insult to experienced
> candidates!" or "how would a rockstar candidate possibly spare the time?"
> But secretly I think all hiring mangers *really* want to know what it will
> be like to have you write code on their behalf. It's just not the industry
> norm to ask.
>

Insightful post about a lot of things related to hiring, but I have to take
exception with this very last point.  Recently, a friend of mine sought out
a data science position in the Seattle area.  Each prospective employer
gave him a take-home assignment that required 30-40 work hours to
complete.


hardy har har.  the correct response to this is "my fee is $200/hr".
 seriously, i would not hire anybody dumb enuff to consent to this kind of
"interview". that companies even try it boggles the mind.

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Re: Compiling gen-class runs static initializers: workarounds, solutions?

[Gregg Reynolds]

On Mar 26, 2017 4:15 PM, "Gregg Reynolds" <d...@mobileink.com> wrote:



On Jan 2, 2015 12:36 PM, "David James" <davidcja...@gmail.com> wrote:

I have a problem when compiling while using gen-class with static
initializers. I use gen-class to extend a JavaFX 8 class,
javafx.scene.control.Control. During compilation, a static initializer is
run, raising an exception saying that the JavaFX toolkit has not been
initialized. I'm going to share what I've read, since this issue seems to
pop up from time to time, and see if there are better solutions than
currently posted online. Here are my questions and comments:

   - Is there a way to run code during compilation that fires before the
   static initializers? I could use this as a workaround to initialize the
   toolkit.
   - Is there a way to stop the static initializers from being run? This
   would solve the problem.
   - More broadly, is is necessary for gen-class to run the static
   initializers during compilation? I recently read over CLJ-1315:
   "Problem: When classes are imported in Clojure, the class is loaded using
   Class.forName(), which causes its static initialisers to be executed. This
   differs from Java where compilation does not cause classes to be loaded." I
   wonder if a similar approach should be used with Clojure's gen-class.

Related discussions:

   - JIRA: CLJ-1315 <http://dev.clojure.org/jira/browse/CLJ-1315>
   - Compilation question - why initialize classes when loading for
   compilation?
   
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/clojure/static$20initializers/clojure/Qd9KTKwqsOA/OigoOrcmoAkJ>
   - Stack Overflow: How can a static initializer be defined using gen-class
   
<http://stackoverflow.com/questions/11783736/how-can-a-static-initializer-be-defined-using-gen-class>
   - Stack Overflow: Clojure can't import JavaFX classes with static
   initializers
   
<http://stackoverflow.com/questions/23365409/clojure-cant-import-javafx-classes-with-static-initializers>

Thanks,
David


just curious, have you tried using :init/:constructors in gen-class?


dunno if this will help, but here's a way to to control initialization of a
superclass.
https://github.com/migae/boot-ask/blob/master/src/clj/migae/templates/gen-speechlet-lambdas.mustache

here the ctor constructs an object and passes it to the super ctor.

hth, gregg

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