Re: [CMake] [cmake-developers] Drop support for older Xcode versions?

[Sean McBride]

On Mon, 8 Feb 2016 10:31:17 -0500, Brad King said:

>Sean, it looks like you are still running nightly tests on OS X
>10.6 with Xcode 4.2:
>
>  https://open.cdash.org/viewNotes.php?buildid=4226138
>
>and OS X 10.5 with Xcode 3.1:
>
>  https://open.cdash.org/viewNotes.php?buildid=4226202

Yeah, mostly because those machines haven't died either. :)  If/when it's 
decided to drop those Xcodes, I'll switch those builds to makefile generator.

>Given Apple's encouragement of developers to always update...

They certainly do, as Eric described.  However, just like everyone else, Apple 
often ships regressions in Xcode and it's sometimes vital to be able to use 
older versions.  Similarly, if you want to deploy an app to an older OS, it's 
very useful to be able to build-run-debug on that OS, and since the newest 
Xcodes only run on the newest OSes, one needs an older Xcode to test/debug on 
older OSes.

Cheers,

-- 

Sean McBride, B. Eng s...@rogue-research.com
Rogue Researchwww.rogue-research.com 
Mac Software Developer  Montréal, Québec, Canada


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Re: [CMake] [cmake-developers] Drop support for older Xcode versions?

[Brad King]

On 02/07/2016 01:54 PM, Michael Jackson wrote:
>> What is the oldest version of OS X that CMake actually runs on?
>> I guess I would support the last version of Xcode that actually
>> ran on that platform. In reality this is probably 10.6.8?
[snip]
On 02/08/2016 10:21 AM, Sean McBride wrote:
> What's the oldest version of Xcode that CMake currently supports?

We still have nightly testing on OS X 10.4 with Xcode 2.5.  It was
in support of the i386/ppc universal release binary but that was
dropped as of CMake 3.4.  Now it is really only "just in case" and
because the machine running the tests has not died yet.  I'm not
opposed to dropping Xcode generator support for it since anyone
with such an old machine can always use the makefile generator.

Sean, it looks like you are still running nightly tests on OS X
10.6 with Xcode 4.2:

  https://open.cdash.org/viewNotes.php?buildid=4226138

and OS X 10.5 with Xcode 3.1:

  https://open.cdash.org/viewNotes.php?buildid=4226202

but perhaps do not need the actual Xcode IDE generator to work.

> Personally, I think supporting Xcode 5.0+ would be reasonable at this point.
> It was released about 2.5 years ago and can run on OS X 10.8.

Given Apple's encouragement of developers to always update I think
that would be reasonable for the Xcode IDE generator.  Xcode older
than 6 or so will not even run on OS X 10.11.  Let's give this
thread a while to see if anyone else has feedback.

Thanks,
-Brad

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Re: [CMake] [cmake-developers] Drop support for older Xcode versions?

[Sean McBride]

On Sat, 6 Feb 2016 11:49:07 +0100, Gregor Jasny via cmake-developers said:

>I'd like to get your feedback on deprecating or dropping support for
>older Xcode versions. During changes on the Xcode generator it gets
>harder and harder to test against old and very old Xcode versions like 3
>and 4.
>
>Are there still users around for these versions of Xcode?

Wikipedia has a nice table of Xcode & OS X:



The problem with supporting only current - 1 as Eric suggests is that also 
excludes older versions of OS X, see the 'min OS X to run' column.

What's the oldest version of Xcode that CMake currently supports?

Personally, I think supporting Xcode 5.0+ would be reasonable at this point.  
It was released about 2.5 years ago and can run on OS X 10.8.

Cheers,

-- 

Sean McBride, B. Eng s...@rogue-research.com
Rogue Researchwww.rogue-research.com 
Mac Software Developer  Montréal, Québec, Canada


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Re: [CMake] [cmake-developers] Drop support for older Xcode versions?

[Brad King]

On 02/07/2016 01:54 PM, Michael Jackson wrote:
>> What is the oldest version of OS X that CMake actually runs on?
>> I guess I would support the last version of Xcode that actually
>> ran on that platform. In reality this is probably 10.6.8?
[snip]
On 02/08/2016 10:21 AM, Sean McBride wrote:
> What's the oldest version of Xcode that CMake currently supports?

We still have nightly testing on OS X 10.4 with Xcode 2.5.  It was
in support of the i386/ppc universal release binary but that was
dropped as of CMake 3.4.  Now it is really only "just in case" and
because the machine running the tests has not died yet.  I'm not
opposed to dropping Xcode generator support for it since anyone
with such an old machine can always use the makefile generator.

Sean, it looks like you are still running nightly tests on OS X
10.6 with Xcode 4.2:

  https://open.cdash.org/viewNotes.php?buildid=4226138

and OS X 10.5 with Xcode 3.1:

  https://open.cdash.org/viewNotes.php?buildid=4226202

but perhaps do not need the actual Xcode IDE generator to work.

> Personally, I think supporting Xcode 5.0+ would be reasonable at this point.
> It was released about 2.5 years ago and can run on OS X 10.8.

Given Apple's encouragement of developers to always update I think
that would be reasonable for the Xcode IDE generator.  Xcode older
than 6 or so will not even run on OS X 10.11.  Let's give this
thread a while to see if anyone else has feedback.

Thanks,
-Brad

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Re: [CMake] [cmake-developers] Drop support for older Xcode versions?

[Michael Jackson]

What is the oldest version of OS X that CMake actually runs on? I guess 
I would support the last version of Xcode that actually ran on that 
platform. In reality this is probably 10.6.8? But At the next major 
update of CMake (3.5 or 3.6) I would actually draw a line in the sand 
and pump that up to OS X 10.9, 10.8 at the absolute minimum. I think 
that is Xcode 6?


Just my thoughts.

Mike Jackson


Eric Wing 
February 6, 2016 at 6:46 PMvia Postbox 



I personally am not using them. My more serious problem is that the
Xcode projects being generated now are not keeping up with modern
Xcode and the features that need to be accessible/set. The reality of
Apple development is you must be on the latest stable Xcode if you
need to ship apps on the Mac or iOS Store, otherwise Apple can reject
your app. Their design philosophy, regardless if you agree with it or
not, is to build with the latest and build against backwards
compatibility deployment targets, not build with the oldest and pray
it will work with future changes that couldn't be predicted at the
time. Their platform, their rules.

So I'm all in favor of dropping legacy platforms if it means
ultimately helping make the Xcode generator work better for modern
Xcode. General rule of thumb for Apple development is support the
latest and -1 version. If you can do more, fine, but don't compromise
the recent stuff in order to achieve distant backwards compatibility.

-Eric
Gregor Jasny via CMake 
February 6, 2016 at 5:49 AMvia Postbox 


Hello,

I'd like to get your feedback on deprecating or dropping support for
older Xcode versions. During changes on the Xcode generator it gets
harder and harder to test against old and very old Xcode versions like 3
and 4.

Are there still users around for these versions of Xcode?

PS: I'm talking here about the Xcode generator which creates Xcode
projects, not the Makefile or Ninja generator.

Thanks,
Gregor


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937-746-0783
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Re: [CMake] [cmake-developers] Drop support for older Xcode versions?

[Eric Wing]

On 2/6/16, Gregor Jasny via cmake-developers  wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I'd like to get your feedback on deprecating or dropping support for
> older Xcode versions. During changes on the Xcode generator it gets
> harder and harder to test against old and very old Xcode versions like 3
> and 4.
>
> Are there still users around for these versions of Xcode?
>
> PS: I'm talking here about the Xcode generator which creates Xcode
> projects, not the Makefile or Ninja generator.
>
> Thanks,
> Gregor
> --
>

I personally am not using them. My more serious problem is that the
Xcode projects being generated now are not keeping up with modern
Xcode and the features that need to be accessible/set. The reality of
Apple development is you must be on the latest stable Xcode if you
need to ship apps on the Mac or iOS Store, otherwise Apple can reject
your app. Their design philosophy, regardless if you agree with it or
not, is to build with the latest and build against backwards
compatibility deployment targets, not build with the oldest and pray
it will work with future changes that couldn't be predicted at the
time. Their platform, their rules.

So I'm all in favor of dropping legacy platforms if it means
ultimately helping make the Xcode generator work better for modern
Xcode. General rule of thumb for Apple development is support the
latest and -1 version. If you can do more, fine, but don't compromise
the recent stuff in order to achieve distant backwards compatibility.

-Eric
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