Re: [CODE4LIB] Python and Ruby
The PyCon announcement reminds me of what may be the biggest difference between Python and Ruby: if you speak at a Ruby conference, your registration fee (and often other expenses) is waived in gratitude for your effort. If you speak at a Python conference, you pay full price in recognition of the privilege you have (to market yourself or something). I have very strong opinions on this, but anyone else interested might want to read the links and comment thread at Marty Haught's post: http://martyhaught.com/articles/2011/06/07/conference-organizing-and-speakers/ Ben Brumfield http://manuscripttranscription.blogspot.com/
Re: [CODE4LIB] Python and Ruby (humor)
Python == (sung to the tune of My Girl and with apologies to The Temptations) It's got syntax that's easy to learn. For closing a scope it's got whitespace to burn. I guess you'd say What can help me code this way? Python Talkin' 'bout Python It's so got duck typing it quacks right at me. It's got a ginormous dev community. I guess you'd say What can help me code this way? Python Talkin' 'bout Python Hey hey hey Hey hey hey Ooooh. I don't need no brackets, Rails, or blocks. I've got all the language features one man can grok. I guess you'd say What can help me code this way? Python Talkin' 'bout Python I've got syntax that's easy to learn with Python. I've even got whitespace to burn with Python Talkin' 'bout, talkin' 'bout Talkin' 'bout, Python Ooooh, Python That's all I can talk about is Python...
Re: [CODE4LIB] Python and Ruby (humor)
I certainly hope that you will sing this for us in NC. On Aug 1, 2013, at 8:17 AM, Doran, Michael D do...@uta.edu wrote: Python == (sung to the tune of My Girl and with apologies to The Temptations) It's got syntax that's easy to learn. For closing a scope it's got whitespace to burn. I guess you'd say What can help me code this way? Python Talkin' 'bout Python It's so got duck typing it quacks right at me. It's got a ginormous dev community. I guess you'd say What can help me code this way? Python Talkin' 'bout Python Hey hey hey Hey hey hey Ooooh. I don't need no brackets, Rails, or blocks. I've got all the language features one man can grok. I guess you'd say What can help me code this way? Python Talkin' 'bout Python I've got syntax that's easy to learn with Python. I've even got whitespace to burn with Python Talkin' 'bout, talkin' 'bout Talkin' 'bout, Python Ooooh, Python That's all I can talk about is Python...
Re: [CODE4LIB] (Haskell ecosystem would be nice) Re: [CODE4LIB] Python and Ruby
On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 11:07 AM, Marc Chantreux m...@unistra.fr wrote: On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 10:27:01AM -0400, Mark A. Matienzo wrote: i don't know why we're not talking about Haskell I did to tell there is a lack of libraries and it is not as convenient as perl when it comes to use regexps. I wrote a MARC::MIR reader for ISO2709 but have some issues (it seems it is not lazy as expected) and need IS05426 support. If your code is not lazy then you're being too strict :-) If you're using ghc, you can use the -ddump-stranal to see what expressions the compiler is identifying as strict; since the goal of doing this analysis is to propagate this information as far as possible to reduce cons up suspensions as much as possible, it might be hard to figure out where the root of the contagion is coming from. If you separate the purely functional parts of the code from the code that is messing around with monads it should be easier to figure out where things are getting forced unexpectedly. Also, does what parts of ISO2709 does French MARC use that is not compatible with Z39.2; likewise, are characters encoded in real 5426, or in the MARC-8 simulacrum thereof? Get back to language non-wars; lazy parsing of marc can be a big win, even in eager languages. Once you know that you've read a whole record (e.g. by some miracle the length at the start of the record happens to be correct, there is no immediate need to parse the contents of the record. If you need the leader, you can parse it when you need it; if you need tags, you can start parsing directory entries ; if you need fields, you can use the directory info, and if you need subfields, you can find the subfield markers. If you're lucky, you can avoid a lot of first and second cache pollution. Also, if you're using multiple cores, and even more so, multiple processors, you may be able to avoid sharing the whole of a record across caches. Simon
Re: [CODE4LIB] Python and Ruby
Ah you got me. Shame on me for not checking the link first. I haven't had to dodge Rickrolls since 2010 so I am out of practice. Josh Welker Information Technology Librarian James C. Kirkpatrick Library University of Central Missouri Warrensburg, MO 64093 JCKL 2260 660.543.8022 -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Michael J. Giarlo Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2013 3:21 PM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Python and Ruby It's extremely eerie how this thread has played out almost exactly like a similar one in 2010: http://bit.ly/4kb77v Creatures of habit, we are. On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 12:55 PM, Levy, Michael ml...@ushmm.org wrote: Has anyone tried coding using one of these? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3keLeMwfHY
Re: [CODE4LIB] Python and Ruby
UNSUBCRIBE On Wed, Jul 31, 2013 at 3:30 PM, Joshua Welker wel...@ucmo.edu wrote: Ah you got me. Shame on me for not checking the link first. I haven't had to dodge Rickrolls since 2010 so I am out of practice. Josh Welker Information Technology Librarian James C. Kirkpatrick Library University of Central Missouri Warrensburg, MO 64093 JCKL 2260 660.543.8022 -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Michael J. Giarlo Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2013 3:21 PM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Python and Ruby It's extremely eerie how this thread has played out almost exactly like a similar one in 2010: http://bit.ly/4kb77v Creatures of habit, we are. On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 12:55 PM, Levy, Michael ml...@ushmm.org wrote: Has anyone tried coding using one of these? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3keLeMwfHY
Re: [CODE4LIB] Python and Ruby
hello, Sorry comming late with it but: On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 10:43:33AM -0500, Joshua Welker wrote: Not intending to start a language flame war/holy war here, but in the library coding community, is there a particular reason to use Ruby over Python or vice-versa? Is it the only choices you have? Because I'd personnally advice none of them I tested both of them before stucking to Perl just because * it is very pleasant when it come to explore and modify datastructures and strings (which library things are). * the ecosystem is briliant: perl comes with lot of libraries and tools with a quality i haven't found in other languages. Of course, perl is not perfect and i really would like to use a modern emerging compiled language like go, rust, haskell or even something on the jvm (like clojure or the emerging perl6) but all of them miss libraries. HTH regards -- Marc Chantreux Université de Strasbourg, Direction Informatique 14 Rue René Descartes, 67084 STRASBOURG CEDEX ☎: 03.68.85.57.40 http://unistra.fr Don't believe everything you read on the Internet -- Abraham Lincoln
Re: [CODE4LIB] Python and Ruby
Whoohoo, late to the party! I like Python because I learned it first, and I haven't had a need to explore Ruby yet. I did briefly foray into learning Ruby in order to try to learn Rails, and I actually found that my background in Python sort of gave me brain-jam for learning Ruby, because the languages were so close together, but just different in some ways. So my mind would be 'oh, so it's just insert Python idiom here but then, it's not. If I tackle Ruby again, I will definitely try to 'empty my cup' first. -K On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 8:55 AM, Marc Chantreux m...@unistra.fr wrote: hello, Sorry comming late with it but: On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 10:43:33AM -0500, Joshua Welker wrote: Not intending to start a language flame war/holy war here, but in the library coding community, is there a particular reason to use Ruby over Python or vice-versa? Is it the only choices you have? Because I'd personnally advice none of them I tested both of them before stucking to Perl just because * it is very pleasant when it come to explore and modify datastructures and strings (which library things are). * the ecosystem is briliant: perl comes with lot of libraries and tools with a quality i haven't found in other languages. Of course, perl is not perfect and i really would like to use a modern emerging compiled language like go, rust, haskell or even something on the jvm (like clojure or the emerging perl6) but all of them miss libraries. HTH regards -- Marc Chantreux Université de Strasbourg, Direction Informatique 14 Rue René Descartes, 67084 STRASBOURG CEDEX ☎: 03.68.85.57.40 http://unistra.fr Don't believe everything you read on the Internet -- Abraham Lincoln -- http://www.blar.net/kurt/blog/
Re: [CODE4LIB] Python and Ruby
No mention of PHP? Sent from my iPhone On Jul 30, 2013, at 9:14 AM, Kurt Nordstrom doseofvitam...@gmail.com wrote: Whoohoo, late to the party! I like Python because I learned it first, and I haven't had a need to explore Ruby yet. I did briefly foray into learning Ruby in order to try to learn Rails, and I actually found that my background in Python sort of gave me brain-jam for learning Ruby, because the languages were so close together, but just different in some ways. So my mind would be 'oh, so it's just insert Python idiom here but then, it's not. If I tackle Ruby again, I will definitely try to 'empty my cup' first. -K On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 8:55 AM, Marc Chantreux m...@unistra.fr wrote: hello, Sorry comming late with it but: On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 10:43:33AM -0500, Joshua Welker wrote: Not intending to start a language flame war/holy war here, but in the library coding community, is there a particular reason to use Ruby over Python or vice-versa? Is it the only choices you have? Because I'd personnally advice none of them I tested both of them before stucking to Perl just because * it is very pleasant when it come to explore and modify datastructures and strings (which library things are). * the ecosystem is briliant: perl comes with lot of libraries and tools with a quality i haven't found in other languages. Of course, perl is not perfect and i really would like to use a modern emerging compiled language like go, rust, haskell or even something on the jvm (like clojure or the emerging perl6) but all of them miss libraries. HTH regards -- Marc Chantreux Université de Strasbourg, Direction Informatique 14 Rue René Descartes, 67084 STRASBOURG CEDEX ☎: 03.68.85.57.40 http://unistra.fr Don't believe everything you read on the Internet -- Abraham Lincoln -- http://www.blar.net/kurt/blog/
Re: [CODE4LIB] Python and Ruby
I am already a big user of PHP for web apps, but PHP does not make a fantastic scripting language in my experience. Josh Welker Information Technology Librarian James C. Kirkpatrick Library University of Central Missouri Warrensburg, MO 64093 JCKL 2260 660.543.8022 -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Riley Childs Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2013 8:18 AM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Python and Ruby No mention of PHP? Sent from my iPhone On Jul 30, 2013, at 9:14 AM, Kurt Nordstrom doseofvitam...@gmail.com wrote: Whoohoo, late to the party! I like Python because I learned it first, and I haven't had a need to explore Ruby yet. I did briefly foray into learning Ruby in order to try to learn Rails, and I actually found that my background in Python sort of gave me brain-jam for learning Ruby, because the languages were so close together, but just different in some ways. So my mind would be 'oh, so it's just insert Python idiom here but then, it's not. If I tackle Ruby again, I will definitely try to 'empty my cup' first. -K On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 8:55 AM, Marc Chantreux m...@unistra.fr wrote: hello, Sorry comming late with it but: On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 10:43:33AM -0500, Joshua Welker wrote: Not intending to start a language flame war/holy war here, but in the library coding community, is there a particular reason to use Ruby over Python or vice-versa? Is it the only choices you have? Because I'd personnally advice none of them I tested both of them before stucking to Perl just because * it is very pleasant when it come to explore and modify datastructures and strings (which library things are). * the ecosystem is briliant: perl comes with lot of libraries and tools with a quality i haven't found in other languages. Of course, perl is not perfect and i really would like to use a modern emerging compiled language like go, rust, haskell or even something on the jvm (like clojure or the emerging perl6) but all of them miss libraries. HTH regards -- Marc Chantreux Université de Strasbourg, Direction Informatique 14 Rue René Descartes, 67084 STRASBOURG CEDEX ☎: 03.68.85.57.40 http://unistra.fr Don't believe everything you read on the Internet -- Abraham Lincoln -- http://www.blar.net/kurt/blog/
Re: [CODE4LIB] Python and Ruby
The proliferation of boutique languages is a cancer on our community. Each one is a YAP (Yet Another Priesthood), and little else. The world does not need five slightly varying syntaxes for a substring function. If I had switched languages every time the web community recommended it, I would have rewritten a mountain of apps at least twice in the past five years. What's next, a separate language to put periods at the end of sentences? Just my $.02. That is all. Rich Wenger E-Resource Systems Manager, MIT Libraries rwen...@mit.edu 617-253-0035 -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@listserv.nd.edu] On Behalf Of Joshua Welker Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2013 9:56 AM To: CODE4LIB@listserv.nd.edu Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Python and Ruby I am already a big user of PHP for web apps, but PHP does not make a fantastic scripting language in my experience. Josh Welker Information Technology Librarian James C. Kirkpatrick Library University of Central Missouri Warrensburg, MO 64093 JCKL 2260 660.543.8022 -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Riley Childs Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2013 8:18 AM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Python and Ruby No mention of PHP? Sent from my iPhone On Jul 30, 2013, at 9:14 AM, Kurt Nordstrom doseofvitam...@gmail.com wrote: Whoohoo, late to the party! I like Python because I learned it first, and I haven't had a need to explore Ruby yet. I did briefly foray into learning Ruby in order to try to learn Rails, and I actually found that my background in Python sort of gave me brain-jam for learning Ruby, because the languages were so close together, but just different in some ways. So my mind would be 'oh, so it's just insert Python idiom here but then, it's not. If I tackle Ruby again, I will definitely try to 'empty my cup' first. -K On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 8:55 AM, Marc Chantreux m...@unistra.fr wrote: hello, Sorry comming late with it but: On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 10:43:33AM -0500, Joshua Welker wrote: Not intending to start a language flame war/holy war here, but in the library coding community, is there a particular reason to use Ruby over Python or vice-versa? Is it the only choices you have? Because I'd personnally advice none of them I tested both of them before stucking to Perl just because * it is very pleasant when it come to explore and modify datastructures and strings (which library things are). * the ecosystem is briliant: perl comes with lot of libraries and tools with a quality i haven't found in other languages. Of course, perl is not perfect and i really would like to use a modern emerging compiled language like go, rust, haskell or even something on the jvm (like clojure or the emerging perl6) but all of them miss libraries. HTH regards -- Marc Chantreux Université de Strasbourg, Direction Informatique 14 Rue René Descartes, 67084 STRASBOURG CEDEX ☎: 03.68.85.57.40 http://unistra.fr Don't believe everything you read on the Internet -- Abraham Lincoln -- http://www.blar.net/kurt/blog/
Re: [CODE4LIB] Python and Ruby
i don't know why we're not talking about Haskell
Re: [CODE4LIB] Python and Ruby
Functional programming FTW! On 7/30/13 10:27 AM, Mark A. Matienzo mark.matie...@gmail.com wrote: i don't know why we're not talking about Haskell - ** The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential. They are intended for the named recipient(s) only. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager or the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to anyone or make copies. ** IronMail scanned this email for viruses, vandals and malicious content. ** **
Re: [CODE4LIB] Python and Ruby
and so the PointBash language was created. Thanks, you've doomed us all. C:\Dev-Code\zerodiv.pb [Warning] Expected period at end of `int i = x/0` add period and recompile.' On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 10:21 AM, Rich Wenger rwen...@mit.edu wrote: The proliferation of boutique languages is a cancer on our community. Each one is a YAP (Yet Another Priesthood), and little else. The world does not need five slightly varying syntaxes for a substring function. If I had switched languages every time the web community recommended it, I would have rewritten a mountain of apps at least twice in the past five years. What's next, a separate language to put periods at the end of sentences? Just my $.02. That is all. Rich Wenger E-Resource Systems Manager, MIT Libraries rwen...@mit.edu 617-253-0035 -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@listserv.nd.edu] On Behalf Of Joshua Welker Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2013 9:56 AM To: CODE4LIB@listserv.nd.edu Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Python and Ruby I am already a big user of PHP for web apps, but PHP does not make a fantastic scripting language in my experience. Josh Welker Information Technology Librarian James C. Kirkpatrick Library University of Central Missouri Warrensburg, MO 64093 JCKL 2260 660.543.8022 -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Riley Childs Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2013 8:18 AM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Python and Ruby No mention of PHP? Sent from my iPhone On Jul 30, 2013, at 9:14 AM, Kurt Nordstrom doseofvitam...@gmail.com wrote: Whoohoo, late to the party! I like Python because I learned it first, and I haven't had a need to explore Ruby yet. I did briefly foray into learning Ruby in order to try to learn Rails, and I actually found that my background in Python sort of gave me brain-jam for learning Ruby, because the languages were so close together, but just different in some ways. So my mind would be 'oh, so it's just insert Python idiom here but then, it's not. If I tackle Ruby again, I will definitely try to 'empty my cup' first. -K On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 8:55 AM, Marc Chantreux m...@unistra.fr wrote: hello, Sorry comming late with it but: On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 10:43:33AM -0500, Joshua Welker wrote: Not intending to start a language flame war/holy war here, but in the library coding community, is there a particular reason to use Ruby over Python or vice-versa? Is it the only choices you have? Because I'd personnally advice none of them I tested both of them before stucking to Perl just because * it is very pleasant when it come to explore and modify datastructures and strings (which library things are). * the ecosystem is briliant: perl comes with lot of libraries and tools with a quality i haven't found in other languages. Of course, perl is not perfect and i really would like to use a modern emerging compiled language like go, rust, haskell or even something on the jvm (like clojure or the emerging perl6) but all of them miss libraries. HTH regards -- Marc Chantreux Université de Strasbourg, Direction Informatique 14 Rue René Descartes, 67084 STRASBOURG CEDEX ☎: 03.68.85.57.40 http://unistra.fr Don't believe everything you read on the Internet -- Abraham Lincoln -- http://www.blar.net/kurt/blog/ -- *Scott Turnbull* APTrust Technical Lead scott.turnb...@aptrust.org www.aptrust.org 678-379-9488
Re: [CODE4LIB] Python and Ruby
-:) -Rich -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@listserv.nd.edu] On Behalf Of Scott Turnbull Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2013 10:41 AM To: CODE4LIB@listserv.nd.edu Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Python and Ruby and so the PointBash language was created. Thanks, you've doomed us all. C:\Dev-Code\zerodiv.pb [Warning] Expected period at end of `int i = x/0` add period and recompile.' On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 10:21 AM, Rich Wenger rwen...@mit.edu wrote: The proliferation of boutique languages is a cancer on our community. Each one is a YAP (Yet Another Priesthood), and little else. The world does not need five slightly varying syntaxes for a substring function. If I had switched languages every time the web community recommended it, I would have rewritten a mountain of apps at least twice in the past five years. What's next, a separate language to put periods at the end of sentences? Just my $.02. That is all. Rich Wenger E-Resource Systems Manager, MIT Libraries rwen...@mit.edu 617-253-0035 -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@listserv.nd.edu] On Behalf Of Joshua Welker Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2013 9:56 AM To: CODE4LIB@listserv.nd.edu Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Python and Ruby I am already a big user of PHP for web apps, but PHP does not make a fantastic scripting language in my experience. Josh Welker Information Technology Librarian James C. Kirkpatrick Library University of Central Missouri Warrensburg, MO 64093 JCKL 2260 660.543.8022 -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Riley Childs Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2013 8:18 AM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Python and Ruby No mention of PHP? Sent from my iPhone On Jul 30, 2013, at 9:14 AM, Kurt Nordstrom doseofvitam...@gmail.com wrote: Whoohoo, late to the party! I like Python because I learned it first, and I haven't had a need to explore Ruby yet. I did briefly foray into learning Ruby in order to try to learn Rails, and I actually found that my background in Python sort of gave me brain-jam for learning Ruby, because the languages were so close together, but just different in some ways. So my mind would be 'oh, so it's just insert Python idiom here but then, it's not. If I tackle Ruby again, I will definitely try to 'empty my cup' first. -K On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 8:55 AM, Marc Chantreux m...@unistra.fr wrote: hello, Sorry comming late with it but: On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 10:43:33AM -0500, Joshua Welker wrote: Not intending to start a language flame war/holy war here, but in the library coding community, is there a particular reason to use Ruby over Python or vice-versa? Is it the only choices you have? Because I'd personnally advice none of them I tested both of them before stucking to Perl just because * it is very pleasant when it come to explore and modify datastructures and strings (which library things are). * the ecosystem is briliant: perl comes with lot of libraries and tools with a quality i haven't found in other languages. Of course, perl is not perfect and i really would like to use a modern emerging compiled language like go, rust, haskell or even something on the jvm (like clojure or the emerging perl6) but all of them miss libraries. HTH regards -- Marc Chantreux Université de Strasbourg, Direction Informatique 14 Rue René Descartes, 67084 STRASBOURG CEDEX ☎: 03.68.85.57.40 http://unistra.fr Don't believe everything you read on the Internet -- Abraham Lincoln -- http://www.blar.net/kurt/blog/ -- *Scott Turnbull* APTrust Technical Lead scott.turnb...@aptrust.org www.aptrust.org 678-379-9488
Re: [CODE4LIB] Python and Ruby
+1 Jeremy Nelson Metadata and Systems Librarian Colorado College -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Mark A. Matienzo Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2013 8:27 AM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Python and Ruby i don't know why we're not talking about Haskell
[CODE4LIB] (Haskell ecosystem would be nice) Re: [CODE4LIB] Python and Ruby
On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 10:27:01AM -0400, Mark A. Matienzo wrote: i don't know why we're not talking about Haskell I did to tell there is a lack of libraries and it is not as convenient as perl when it comes to use regexps. I wrote a MARC::MIR reader for ISO2709 but have some issues (it seems it is not lazy as expected) and need IS05426 support. regards -- Marc Chantreux Université de Strasbourg, Direction Informatique 14 Rue René Descartes, 67084 STRASBOURG CEDEX ☎: 03.68.85.57.40 http://unistra.fr Don't believe everything you read on the Internet -- Abraham Lincoln
Re: [CODE4LIB] Python and Ruby
On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 02:21:55PM +, Rich Wenger wrote: The proliferation of boutique languages is a cancer on our community. sure ... but i don't want to be stuck on PHP or python when i have the power of perl inside my hands, other would argue perl is too hard for librarians and go python, someone else will tell us all that yeah, his go server is 30 times faster than our dynamic langages based ones. Guess what? They are all right and it's a matter of what you need and how those languages will taste to you. There is no silver bullet, so don't expect a cancer cure for the moment. Sorry about that :) regards -- Marc Chantreux Université de Strasbourg, Direction Informatique 14 Rue René Descartes, 67084 STRASBOURG CEDEX ☎: 03.68.85.57.40 http://unistra.fr Don't believe everything you read on the Internet -- Abraham Lincoln
Re: [CODE4LIB] Python and Ruby
What would you consider a boutique language? What isn't? -Ross. On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 10:21 AM, Rich Wenger rwen...@mit.edu wrote: The proliferation of boutique languages is a cancer on our community. Each one is a YAP (Yet Another Priesthood), and little else. The world does not need five slightly varying syntaxes for a substring function. If I had switched languages every time the web community recommended it, I would have rewritten a mountain of apps at least twice in the past five years. What's next, a separate language to put periods at the end of sentences? Just my $.02. That is all. Rich Wenger E-Resource Systems Manager, MIT Libraries rwen...@mit.edu 617-253-0035 -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@listserv.nd.edu] On Behalf Of Joshua Welker Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2013 9:56 AM To: CODE4LIB@listserv.nd.edu Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Python and Ruby I am already a big user of PHP for web apps, but PHP does not make a fantastic scripting language in my experience. Josh Welker Information Technology Librarian James C. Kirkpatrick Library University of Central Missouri Warrensburg, MO 64093 JCKL 2260 660.543.8022 -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Riley Childs Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2013 8:18 AM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Python and Ruby No mention of PHP? Sent from my iPhone On Jul 30, 2013, at 9:14 AM, Kurt Nordstrom doseofvitam...@gmail.com wrote: Whoohoo, late to the party! I like Python because I learned it first, and I haven't had a need to explore Ruby yet. I did briefly foray into learning Ruby in order to try to learn Rails, and I actually found that my background in Python sort of gave me brain-jam for learning Ruby, because the languages were so close together, but just different in some ways. So my mind would be 'oh, so it's just insert Python idiom here but then, it's not. If I tackle Ruby again, I will definitely try to 'empty my cup' first. -K On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 8:55 AM, Marc Chantreux m...@unistra.fr wrote: hello, Sorry comming late with it but: On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 10:43:33AM -0500, Joshua Welker wrote: Not intending to start a language flame war/holy war here, but in the library coding community, is there a particular reason to use Ruby over Python or vice-versa? Is it the only choices you have? Because I'd personnally advice none of them I tested both of them before stucking to Perl just because * it is very pleasant when it come to explore and modify datastructures and strings (which library things are). * the ecosystem is briliant: perl comes with lot of libraries and tools with a quality i haven't found in other languages. Of course, perl is not perfect and i really would like to use a modern emerging compiled language like go, rust, haskell or even something on the jvm (like clojure or the emerging perl6) but all of them miss libraries. HTH regards -- Marc Chantreux Université de Strasbourg, Direction Informatique 14 Rue René Descartes, 67084 STRASBOURG CEDEX ☎: 03.68.85.57.40 http://unistra.fr Don't believe everything you read on the Internet -- Abraham Lincoln -- http://www.blar.net/kurt/blog/
Re: [CODE4LIB] Python and Ruby
All languages other than assembly are boutique and must be eliminated like the cancer that they are. On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 11:14 AM, Ross Singer rossfsin...@gmail.com wrote: What would you consider a boutique language? What isn't? -Ross. On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 10:21 AM, Rich Wenger rwen...@mit.edu wrote: The proliferation of boutique languages is a cancer on our community. Each one is a YAP (Yet Another Priesthood), and little else. The world does not need five slightly varying syntaxes for a substring function. If I had switched languages every time the web community recommended it, I would have rewritten a mountain of apps at least twice in the past five years. What's next, a separate language to put periods at the end of sentences? Just my $.02. That is all. Rich Wenger E-Resource Systems Manager, MIT Libraries rwen...@mit.edu 617-253-0035 -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@listserv.nd.edu] On Behalf Of Joshua Welker Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2013 9:56 AM To: CODE4LIB@listserv.nd.edu Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Python and Ruby I am already a big user of PHP for web apps, but PHP does not make a fantastic scripting language in my experience. Josh Welker Information Technology Librarian James C. Kirkpatrick Library University of Central Missouri Warrensburg, MO 64093 JCKL 2260 660.543.8022 -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Riley Childs Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2013 8:18 AM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Python and Ruby No mention of PHP? Sent from my iPhone On Jul 30, 2013, at 9:14 AM, Kurt Nordstrom doseofvitam...@gmail.com wrote: Whoohoo, late to the party! I like Python because I learned it first, and I haven't had a need to explore Ruby yet. I did briefly foray into learning Ruby in order to try to learn Rails, and I actually found that my background in Python sort of gave me brain-jam for learning Ruby, because the languages were so close together, but just different in some ways. So my mind would be 'oh, so it's just insert Python idiom here but then, it's not. If I tackle Ruby again, I will definitely try to 'empty my cup' first. -K On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 8:55 AM, Marc Chantreux m...@unistra.fr wrote: hello, Sorry comming late with it but: On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 10:43:33AM -0500, Joshua Welker wrote: Not intending to start a language flame war/holy war here, but in the library coding community, is there a particular reason to use Ruby over Python or vice-versa? Is it the only choices you have? Because I'd personnally advice none of them I tested both of them before stucking to Perl just because * it is very pleasant when it come to explore and modify datastructures and strings (which library things are). * the ecosystem is briliant: perl comes with lot of libraries and tools with a quality i haven't found in other languages. Of course, perl is not perfect and i really would like to use a modern emerging compiled language like go, rust, haskell or even something on the jvm (like clojure or the emerging perl6) but all of them miss libraries. HTH regards -- Marc Chantreux Université de Strasbourg, Direction Informatique 14 Rue René Descartes, 67084 STRASBOURG CEDEX ☎: 03.68.85.57.40 http://unistra.fr Don't believe everything you read on the Internet -- Abraham Lincoln -- http://www.blar.net/kurt/blog/
Re: [CODE4LIB] Python and Ruby
Whatever; if you're not programming Turing machines made from two rocks and a roll of toilet paper, then you're not a REAL coder. On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 11:18 AM, Ethan Gruber ewg4x...@gmail.com wrote: All languages other than assembly are boutique and must be eliminated like the cancer that they are. On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 11:14 AM, Ross Singer rossfsin...@gmail.com wrote: What would you consider a boutique language? What isn't? -Ross. On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 10:21 AM, Rich Wenger rwen...@mit.edu wrote: The proliferation of boutique languages is a cancer on our community. Each one is a YAP (Yet Another Priesthood), and little else. The world does not need five slightly varying syntaxes for a substring function. If I had switched languages every time the web community recommended it, I would have rewritten a mountain of apps at least twice in the past five years. What's next, a separate language to put periods at the end of sentences? Just my $.02. That is all. Rich Wenger E-Resource Systems Manager, MIT Libraries rwen...@mit.edu 617-253-0035 -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@listserv.nd.edu] On Behalf Of Joshua Welker Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2013 9:56 AM To: CODE4LIB@listserv.nd.edu Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Python and Ruby I am already a big user of PHP for web apps, but PHP does not make a fantastic scripting language in my experience. Josh Welker Information Technology Librarian James C. Kirkpatrick Library University of Central Missouri Warrensburg, MO 64093 JCKL 2260 660.543.8022 -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Riley Childs Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2013 8:18 AM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Python and Ruby No mention of PHP? Sent from my iPhone On Jul 30, 2013, at 9:14 AM, Kurt Nordstrom doseofvitam...@gmail.com wrote: Whoohoo, late to the party! I like Python because I learned it first, and I haven't had a need to explore Ruby yet. I did briefly foray into learning Ruby in order to try to learn Rails, and I actually found that my background in Python sort of gave me brain-jam for learning Ruby, because the languages were so close together, but just different in some ways. So my mind would be 'oh, so it's just insert Python idiom here but then, it's not. If I tackle Ruby again, I will definitely try to 'empty my cup' first. -K On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 8:55 AM, Marc Chantreux m...@unistra.fr wrote: hello, Sorry comming late with it but: On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 10:43:33AM -0500, Joshua Welker wrote: Not intending to start a language flame war/holy war here, but in the library coding community, is there a particular reason to use Ruby over Python or vice-versa? Is it the only choices you have? Because I'd personnally advice none of them I tested both of them before stucking to Perl just because * it is very pleasant when it come to explore and modify datastructures and strings (which library things are). * the ecosystem is briliant: perl comes with lot of libraries and tools with a quality i haven't found in other languages. Of course, perl is not perfect and i really would like to use a modern emerging compiled language like go, rust, haskell or even something on the jvm (like clojure or the emerging perl6) but all of them miss libraries. HTH regards -- Marc Chantreux Université de Strasbourg, Direction Informatique 14 Rue René Descartes, 67084 STRASBOURG CEDEX ☎: 03.68.85.57.40 http://unistra.fr Don't believe everything you read on the Internet -- Abraham Lincoln -- http://www.blar.net/kurt/blog/
Re: [CODE4LIB] Python and Ruby
Ok folks, we have veered into nonconstructive territory. How about we come back to the original question and help this person figure out what they need to about Ruby and Python so they can do well with what they want to work on. On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 10:18 AM, Ethan Gruber ewg4x...@gmail.com wrote: All languages other than assembly are boutique and must be eliminated like the cancer that they are. On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 11:14 AM, Ross Singer rossfsin...@gmail.com wrote: What would you consider a boutique language? What isn't? -Ross. On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 10:21 AM, Rich Wenger rwen...@mit.edu wrote: The proliferation of boutique languages is a cancer on our community. Each one is a YAP (Yet Another Priesthood), and little else. The world does not need five slightly varying syntaxes for a substring function. If I had switched languages every time the web community recommended it, I would have rewritten a mountain of apps at least twice in the past five years. What's next, a separate language to put periods at the end of sentences? Just my $.02. That is all. Rich Wenger E-Resource Systems Manager, MIT Libraries rwen...@mit.edu 617-253-0035 -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@listserv.nd.edu] On Behalf Of Joshua Welker Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2013 9:56 AM To: CODE4LIB@listserv.nd.edu Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Python and Ruby I am already a big user of PHP for web apps, but PHP does not make a fantastic scripting language in my experience. Josh Welker Information Technology Librarian James C. Kirkpatrick Library University of Central Missouri Warrensburg, MO 64093 JCKL 2260 660.543.8022 -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Riley Childs Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2013 8:18 AM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Python and Ruby No mention of PHP? Sent from my iPhone On Jul 30, 2013, at 9:14 AM, Kurt Nordstrom doseofvitam...@gmail.com wrote: Whoohoo, late to the party! I like Python because I learned it first, and I haven't had a need to explore Ruby yet. I did briefly foray into learning Ruby in order to try to learn Rails, and I actually found that my background in Python sort of gave me brain-jam for learning Ruby, because the languages were so close together, but just different in some ways. So my mind would be 'oh, so it's just insert Python idiom here but then, it's not. If I tackle Ruby again, I will definitely try to 'empty my cup' first. -K On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 8:55 AM, Marc Chantreux m...@unistra.fr wrote: hello, Sorry comming late with it but: On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 10:43:33AM -0500, Joshua Welker wrote: Not intending to start a language flame war/holy war here, but in the library coding community, is there a particular reason to use Ruby over Python or vice-versa? Is it the only choices you have? Because I'd personnally advice none of them I tested both of them before stucking to Perl just because * it is very pleasant when it come to explore and modify datastructures and strings (which library things are). * the ecosystem is briliant: perl comes with lot of libraries and tools with a quality i haven't found in other languages. Of course, perl is not perfect and i really would like to use a modern emerging compiled language like go, rust, haskell or even something on the jvm (like clojure or the emerging perl6) but all of them miss libraries. HTH regards -- Marc Chantreux Université de Strasbourg, Direction Informatique 14 Rue René Descartes, 67084 STRASBOURG CEDEX ☎: 03.68.85.57.40 http://unistra.fr Don't believe everything you read on the Internet -- Abraham Lincoln -- http://www.blar.net/kurt/blog/
Re: [CODE4LIB] Python and Ruby
On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 11:21:24AM -0400, Andreas Orphanides wrote: Whatever; if you're not programming Turing machines made from two rocks and a roll of toilet paper, then you're not a REAL coder. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8DiOthAKek ./fxk -- H. L. Mencken suffers from the hallucination that he is H. L. Mencken -- there is no cure for a disease of that magnitude. -- Maxwell Bodenheim
Re: [CODE4LIB] Python and Ruby
Real coders roll their own programming languages. -Original Message- From: Francis Kayiwa kay...@uic.edu Sent: Jul 30, 2013 10:45 AM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Python and Ruby On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 11:21:24AM -0400, Andreas Orphanides wrote: Whatever; if you're not programming Turing machines made from two rocks and a roll of toilet paper, then you're not a REAL coder. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8DiOthAKek ./fxk -- H. L. Mencken suffers from the hallucination that he is H. L. Mencken -- there is no cure for a disease of that magnitude. -- Maxwell Bodenheim
Re: [CODE4LIB] Python and Ruby
umad bro? ;) Josh Welker Information Technology Librarian James C. Kirkpatrick Library University of Central Missouri Warrensburg, MO 64093 JCKL 2260 660.543.8022 -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Rich Wenger Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2013 9:22 AM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Python and Ruby The proliferation of boutique languages is a cancer on our community. Each one is a YAP (Yet Another Priesthood), and little else. The world does not need five slightly varying syntaxes for a substring function. If I had switched languages every time the web community recommended it, I would have rewritten a mountain of apps at least twice in the past five years. What's next, a separate language to put periods at the end of sentences? Just my $.02. That is all. Rich Wenger E-Resource Systems Manager, MIT Libraries rwen...@mit.edu 617-253-0035 -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@listserv.nd.edu] On Behalf Of Joshua Welker Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2013 9:56 AM To: CODE4LIB@listserv.nd.edu Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Python and Ruby I am already a big user of PHP for web apps, but PHP does not make a fantastic scripting language in my experience. Josh Welker Information Technology Librarian James C. Kirkpatrick Library University of Central Missouri Warrensburg, MO 64093 JCKL 2260 660.543.8022 -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Riley Childs Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2013 8:18 AM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Python and Ruby No mention of PHP? Sent from my iPhone On Jul 30, 2013, at 9:14 AM, Kurt Nordstrom doseofvitam...@gmail.com wrote: Whoohoo, late to the party! I like Python because I learned it first, and I haven't had a need to explore Ruby yet. I did briefly foray into learning Ruby in order to try to learn Rails, and I actually found that my background in Python sort of gave me brain-jam for learning Ruby, because the languages were so close together, but just different in some ways. So my mind would be 'oh, so it's just insert Python idiom here but then, it's not. If I tackle Ruby again, I will definitely try to 'empty my cup' first. -K On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 8:55 AM, Marc Chantreux m...@unistra.fr wrote: hello, Sorry comming late with it but: On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 10:43:33AM -0500, Joshua Welker wrote: Not intending to start a language flame war/holy war here, but in the library coding community, is there a particular reason to use Ruby over Python or vice-versa? Is it the only choices you have? Because I'd personnally advice none of them I tested both of them before stucking to Perl just because * it is very pleasant when it come to explore and modify datastructures and strings (which library things are). * the ecosystem is briliant: perl comes with lot of libraries and tools with a quality i haven't found in other languages. Of course, perl is not perfect and i really would like to use a modern emerging compiled language like go, rust, haskell or even something on the jvm (like clojure or the emerging perl6) but all of them miss libraries. HTH regards -- Marc Chantreux Université de Strasbourg, Direction Informatique 14 Rue René Descartes, 67084 STRASBOURG CEDEX ☎: 03.68.85.57.40 http://unistra.fr Don't believe everything you read on the Internet -- Abraham Lincoln -- http://www.blar.net/kurt/blog/
Re: [CODE4LIB] Python and Ruby
I think I have the information I need at this point, so this would be a good time to let this thread die before it turns into what I tried to avoid in the first place. Josh Welker Information Technology Librarian James C. Kirkpatrick Library University of Central Missouri Warrensburg, MO 64093 JCKL 2260 660.543.8022 -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Matthew Sherman Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2013 10:25 AM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Python and Ruby Ok folks, we have veered into nonconstructive territory. How about we come back to the original question and help this person figure out what they need to about Ruby and Python so they can do well with what they want to work on. On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 10:18 AM, Ethan Gruber ewg4x...@gmail.com wrote: All languages other than assembly are boutique and must be eliminated like the cancer that they are. On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 11:14 AM, Ross Singer rossfsin...@gmail.com wrote: What would you consider a boutique language? What isn't? -Ross. On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 10:21 AM, Rich Wenger rwen...@mit.edu wrote: The proliferation of boutique languages is a cancer on our community. Each one is a YAP (Yet Another Priesthood), and little else. The world does not need five slightly varying syntaxes for a substring function. If I had switched languages every time the web community recommended it, I would have rewritten a mountain of apps at least twice in the past five years. What's next, a separate language to put periods at the end of sentences? Just my $.02. That is all. Rich Wenger E-Resource Systems Manager, MIT Libraries rwen...@mit.edu 617-253-0035 -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@listserv.nd.edu] On Behalf Of Joshua Welker Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2013 9:56 AM To: CODE4LIB@listserv.nd.edu Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Python and Ruby I am already a big user of PHP for web apps, but PHP does not make a fantastic scripting language in my experience. Josh Welker Information Technology Librarian James C. Kirkpatrick Library University of Central Missouri Warrensburg, MO 64093 JCKL 2260 660.543.8022 -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Riley Childs Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2013 8:18 AM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Python and Ruby No mention of PHP? Sent from my iPhone On Jul 30, 2013, at 9:14 AM, Kurt Nordstrom doseofvitam...@gmail.com wrote: Whoohoo, late to the party! I like Python because I learned it first, and I haven't had a need to explore Ruby yet. I did briefly foray into learning Ruby in order to try to learn Rails, and I actually found that my background in Python sort of gave me brain-jam for learning Ruby, because the languages were so close together, but just different in some ways. So my mind would be 'oh, so it's just insert Python idiom here but then, it's not. If I tackle Ruby again, I will definitely try to 'empty my cup' first. -K On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 8:55 AM, Marc Chantreux m...@unistra.fr wrote: hello, Sorry comming late with it but: On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 10:43:33AM -0500, Joshua Welker wrote: Not intending to start a language flame war/holy war here, but in the library coding community, is there a particular reason to use Ruby over Python or vice-versa? Is it the only choices you have? Because I'd personnally advice none of them I tested both of them before stucking to Perl just because * it is very pleasant when it come to explore and modify datastructures and strings (which library things are). * the ecosystem is briliant: perl comes with lot of libraries and tools with a quality i haven't found in other languages. Of course, perl is not perfect and i really would like to use a modern emerging compiled language like go, rust, haskell or even something on the jvm (like clojure or the emerging perl6) but all of them miss libraries. HTH regards -- Marc Chantreux Université de Strasbourg, Direction Informatique 14 Rue René Descartes, 67084 STRASBOURG CEDEX ☎: 03.68.85.57.40 http://unistra.fr Don't believe everything you read on the Internet -- Abraham Lincoln -- http://www.blar.net/kurt/blog/
Re: [CODE4LIB] Python and Ruby
Once you have committed your soul to visual Basic, there is no turning back. On Jul 30, 2013, at 9:07 AM, Joshua Welker wel...@ucmo.edu wrote: umad bro? ;) Josh Welker Information Technology Librarian James C. Kirkpatrick Library University of Central Missouri Warrensburg, MO 64093 JCKL 2260 660.543.8022 -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Rich Wenger Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2013 9:22 AM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Python and Ruby The proliferation of boutique languages is a cancer on our community. Each one is a YAP (Yet Another Priesthood), and little else. The world does not need five slightly varying syntaxes for a substring function. If I had switched languages every time the web community recommended it, I would have rewritten a mountain of apps at least twice in the past five years. What's next, a separate language to put periods at the end of sentences? Just my $.02. That is all. Rich Wenger E-Resource Systems Manager, MIT Libraries rwen...@mit.edu 617-253-0035 -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@listserv.nd.edu] On Behalf Of Joshua Welker Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2013 9:56 AM To: CODE4LIB@listserv.nd.edu Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Python and Ruby I am already a big user of PHP for web apps, but PHP does not make a fantastic scripting language in my experience. Josh Welker Information Technology Librarian James C. Kirkpatrick Library University of Central Missouri Warrensburg, MO 64093 JCKL 2260 660.543.8022 -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Riley Childs Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2013 8:18 AM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Python and Ruby No mention of PHP? Sent from my iPhone On Jul 30, 2013, at 9:14 AM, Kurt Nordstrom doseofvitam...@gmail.com wrote: Whoohoo, late to the party! I like Python because I learned it first, and I haven't had a need to explore Ruby yet. I did briefly foray into learning Ruby in order to try to learn Rails, and I actually found that my background in Python sort of gave me brain-jam for learning Ruby, because the languages were so close together, but just different in some ways. So my mind would be 'oh, so it's just insert Python idiom here but then, it's not. If I tackle Ruby again, I will definitely try to 'empty my cup' first. -K On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 8:55 AM, Marc Chantreux m...@unistra.fr wrote: hello, Sorry comming late with it but: On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 10:43:33AM -0500, Joshua Welker wrote: Not intending to start a language flame war/holy war here, but in the library coding community, is there a particular reason to use Ruby over Python or vice-versa? Is it the only choices you have? Because I'd personnally advice none of them I tested both of them before stucking to Perl just because * it is very pleasant when it come to explore and modify datastructures and strings (which library things are). * the ecosystem is briliant: perl comes with lot of libraries and tools with a quality i haven't found in other languages. Of course, perl is not perfect and i really would like to use a modern emerging compiled language like go, rust, haskell or even something on the jvm (like clojure or the emerging perl6) but all of them miss libraries. HTH regards -- Marc Chantreux Université de Strasbourg, Direction Informatique 14 Rue René Descartes, 67084 STRASBOURG CEDEX ☎: 03.68.85.57.40 http://unistra.fr Don't believe everything you read on the Internet -- Abraham Lincoln -- http://www.blar.net/kurt/blog/
Re: [CODE4LIB] Python and Ruby
I recommend going through http://pragprog.com/book/btlang/seven-languages-in-seven-weeks No, of course it's not exhaustive, but it offers an appreciation of some modern languages, their differences, and the roots they derived from. Every coder [their] language. Every language its coder :) Jason -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Marc Chantreux Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2013 10:14 AM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Python and Ruby On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 02:21:55PM +, Rich Wenger wrote: The proliferation of boutique languages is a cancer on our community. sure ... but i don't want to be stuck on PHP or python when i have the power of perl inside my hands, other would argue perl is too hard for librarians and go python, someone else will tell us all that yeah, his go server is 30 times faster than our dynamic langages based ones. Guess what? They are all right and it's a matter of what you need and how those languages will taste to you. There is no silver bullet, so don't expect a cancer cure for the moment. Sorry about that :) regards -- Marc Chantreux Université de Strasbourg, Direction Informatique 14 Rue René Descartes, 67084 STRASBOURG CEDEX ☎: 03.68.85.57.40 http://unistra.fr Don't believe everything you read on the Internet -- Abraham Lincoln
Re: [CODE4LIB] Python and Ruby
Didn't Dr. Frankenstein say that about the monster? On Jul 30, 2013, at 9:09 AM, Joshua Welker wel...@ucmo.edu wrote: I think I have the information I need at this point, so this would be a good time to let this thread die before it turns into what I tried to avoid in the first place. Josh Welker Information Technology Librarian James C. Kirkpatrick Library University of Central Missouri Warrensburg, MO 64093 JCKL 2260 660.543.8022
Re: [CODE4LIB] Python and Ruby
I'm not sure about boutique, but I bet I can define brotique for you. ;) On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 11:14 AM, Ross Singer rossfsin...@gmail.com wrote: What would you consider a boutique language? What isn't? -Ross. On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 10:21 AM, Rich Wenger rwen...@mit.edu wrote: The proliferation of boutique languages is a cancer on our community. Each one is a YAP (Yet Another Priesthood), and little else. The world does not need five slightly varying syntaxes for a substring function. If I had switched languages every time the web community recommended it, I would have rewritten a mountain of apps at least twice in the past five years. What's next, a separate language to put periods at the end of sentences? Just my $.02. That is all. Rich Wenger E-Resource Systems Manager, MIT Libraries rwen...@mit.edu 617-253-0035 -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@listserv.nd.edu] On Behalf Of Joshua Welker Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2013 9:56 AM To: CODE4LIB@listserv.nd.edu Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Python and Ruby I am already a big user of PHP for web apps, but PHP does not make a fantastic scripting language in my experience. Josh Welker Information Technology Librarian James C. Kirkpatrick Library University of Central Missouri Warrensburg, MO 64093 JCKL 2260 660.543.8022 -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Riley Childs Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2013 8:18 AM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Python and Ruby No mention of PHP? Sent from my iPhone On Jul 30, 2013, at 9:14 AM, Kurt Nordstrom doseofvitam...@gmail.com wrote: Whoohoo, late to the party! I like Python because I learned it first, and I haven't had a need to explore Ruby yet. I did briefly foray into learning Ruby in order to try to learn Rails, and I actually found that my background in Python sort of gave me brain-jam for learning Ruby, because the languages were so close together, but just different in some ways. So my mind would be 'oh, so it's just insert Python idiom here but then, it's not. If I tackle Ruby again, I will definitely try to 'empty my cup' first. -K On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 8:55 AM, Marc Chantreux m...@unistra.fr wrote: hello, Sorry comming late with it but: On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 10:43:33AM -0500, Joshua Welker wrote: Not intending to start a language flame war/holy war here, but in the library coding community, is there a particular reason to use Ruby over Python or vice-versa? Is it the only choices you have? Because I'd personnally advice none of them I tested both of them before stucking to Perl just because * it is very pleasant when it come to explore and modify datastructures and strings (which library things are). * the ecosystem is briliant: perl comes with lot of libraries and tools with a quality i haven't found in other languages. Of course, perl is not perfect and i really would like to use a modern emerging compiled language like go, rust, haskell or even something on the jvm (like clojure or the emerging perl6) but all of them miss libraries. HTH regards -- Marc Chantreux Université de Strasbourg, Direction Informatique 14 Rue René Descartes, 67084 STRASBOURG CEDEX ☎: 03.68.85.57.40 http://unistra.fr Don't believe everything you read on the Internet -- Abraham Lincoln -- http://www.blar.net/kurt/blog/ -- http://www.blar.net/kurt/blog/
Re: [CODE4LIB] Python and Ruby
On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 10:25:14AM -0500, Matthew Sherman wrote: Ok folks, we have veered into nonconstructive territory. How about we come back to the original question and help this person figure out what they need to about Ruby and Python so they can do well with what they want to work on. comparing languages on objective criterias (especially when they are as close as ruby and python) isn't constructive. but ok, let's try * both claim to be very easy to learn (ruby by having a very nice syntax, python by limitating the features from the syntax) * writing python code is very boring when you come from featured. langages like ruby or perl. nothing can be expressed a simple way. * ruby is slow ... i mean: even for a dynamic language. * both langages have libs for libraries for libraries but lack something as robust and usefull as CPAN (and related tools) * python has an equivalent of the perl PDL (scipy) * python has Natural Language Toolkit (equivalent in other langages ?) your basic goal | your langage - write/maintain faster | perl reuse existing faster | python learn faster | ruby executefaster | you're probably screwed. experiment lua, go, haskell, rust regards -- Marc Chantreux Université de Strasbourg, Direction Informatique 14 Rue René Descartes, 67084 STRASBOURG CEDEX ☎: 03.68.85.57.40 http://unistra.fr Don't believe everything you read on the Internet -- Abraham Lincoln
Re: [CODE4LIB] Python and Ruby
On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 8:25 AM, Matthew Sherman matt.r.sher...@gmail.comwrote: Ok folks, we have veered into nonconstructive territory. How about we come back to the original question and help this person figure out what they need to about Ruby and Python so they can do well with what they want to work on. The systems and projects you work on dictate what languages you must know. If the idea is to just start learning, find a project that interests you and learn whatever that requires. Whatever language you use, data comes in, you do something with it, data goes out. You'll undoubtedly call up some libraries to help you. Finding yet another way to do that isn't necessarily a good idea. There's no way to avoid working with a bunch of languages nowadays, so I wouldn't recommend adding to that stack unless you have to.
Re: [CODE4LIB] Python and Ruby
Well, this is probably some obvious bait, but I will take it. :) *writing python code is very boring when you come from featured. langages like ruby or perl. nothing can be expressed a simple way* I'd call this an intentional feature, as opposed to a detriment. The idea behind Python is you should never have to stare at a line of code for a long time and wonder just what the programmer was trying to do. Cleverness can kill. On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 12:24 PM, Marc Chantreux m...@unistra.fr wrote: On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 10:25:14AM -0500, Matthew Sherman wrote: Ok folks, we have veered into nonconstructive territory. How about we come back to the original question and help this person figure out what they need to about Ruby and Python so they can do well with what they want to work on. comparing languages on objective criterias (especially when they are as close as ruby and python) isn't constructive. but ok, let's try * both claim to be very easy to learn (ruby by having a very nice syntax, python by limitating the features from the syntax) * writing python code is very boring when you come from featured. langages like ruby or perl. nothing can be expressed a simple way. * ruby is slow ... i mean: even for a dynamic language. * both langages have libs for libraries for libraries but lack something as robust and usefull as CPAN (and related tools) * python has an equivalent of the perl PDL (scipy) * python has Natural Language Toolkit (equivalent in other langages ?) your basic goal | your langage - write/maintain faster | perl reuse existing faster | python learn faster | ruby executefaster | you're probably screwed. experiment lua, go, haskell, rust regards -- Marc Chantreux Université de Strasbourg, Direction Informatique 14 Rue René Descartes, 67084 STRASBOURG CEDEX ☎: 03.68.85.57.40 http://unistra.fr Don't believe everything you read on the Internet -- Abraham Lincoln -- http://www.blar.net/kurt/blog/
Re: [CODE4LIB] Python and Ruby
Seven Languages in Seven Weeks ++ Great geek fun. On Jul 30, 2013, at 9:13 AM, Jason Stirnaman jstirna...@kumc.edu wrote: I recommend going through http://pragprog.com/book/btlang/seven-languages-in-seven-weeks No, of course it's not exhaustive, but it offers an appreciation of some modern languages, their differences, and the roots they derived from. Every coder [their] language. Every language its coder :) Jason -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Marc Chantreux Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2013 10:14 AM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Python and Ruby On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 02:21:55PM +, Rich Wenger wrote: The proliferation of boutique languages is a cancer on our community. sure ... but i don't want to be stuck on PHP or python when i have the power of perl inside my hands, other would argue perl is too hard for librarians and go python, someone else will tell us all that yeah, his go server is 30 times faster than our dynamic langages based ones. Guess what? They are all right and it's a matter of what you need and how those languages will taste to you. There is no silver bullet, so don't expect a cancer cure for the moment. Sorry about that :) regards -- Marc Chantreux Université de Strasbourg, Direction Informatique 14 Rue René Descartes, 67084 STRASBOURG CEDEX ☎: 03.68.85.57.40 http://unistra.fr Don't believe everything you read on the Internet -- Abraham Lincoln
Re: [CODE4LIB] Python and Ruby
This discussion brought to mind this oldie but goodie... http://www.canonical.org/~kragen/tao-of-programming.html Thus spake the master programmer: ``When you have learned to snatch the error code from the trap frame, it will be time for you to leave.'' 1.1 Something mysterious is formed, born in the silent void. Waiting alone and unmoving, it is at once still and yet in constant motion. It is the source of all programs. I do not know its name, so I will call it the Tao of Programming. If the Tao is great, then the operating system is great. If the operating system is great, then the compiler is great. If the compiler is great, then the application is great. The user is pleased and there exists harmony in the world. The Tao of Programming flows far away and returns on the wind of morning. 1.2 The Tao gave birth to machine language. Machine language gave birth to the assembler. The assembler gave birth to the compiler. Now there are ten thousand languages. Each language has its purpose, however humble. Each language expresses the Yin and Yang of software. Each language has its place within the Tao. But do not program in COBOL if you can avoid it... pax, John Lolis Information Technology Manager White Plains Public Library 100 Martine Avenue White Plains, NY 10601 email: jlo...@wppl.lib.ny.us tel: 1.914.422.1497 fax: 1.914.422.1452 http://whiteplainslibrary.org/ On 7/30/2013 at 11:57 AM, in message 11189354.1375199827231.javamail.r...@elwamui-milano.atl.sa.earthlink.net, Peter Schlumpf pschlu...@earthlink.net wrote: Real coders roll their own programming languages. -Original Message- From: Francis Kayiwa kay...@uic.edu Sent: Jul 30, 2013 10:45 AM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Python and Ruby On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 11:21:24AM -0400, Andreas Orphanides wrote: Whatever; if you're not programming Turing machines made from two rocks and a roll of toilet paper, then you're not a REAL coder. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8DiOthAKek ./fxk -- H. L. Mencken suffers from the hallucination that he is H. L. Mencken -- there is no cure for a disease of that magnitude. -- Maxwell Bodenheim
Re: [CODE4LIB] Python and Ruby
s/objective/subjective/ FTFY On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 9:24 AM, Marc Chantreux m...@unistra.fr wrote: On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 10:25:14AM -0500, Matthew Sherman wrote: Ok folks, we have veered into nonconstructive territory. How about we come back to the original question and help this person figure out what they need to about Ruby and Python so they can do well with what they want to work on. comparing languages on objective criterias (especially when they are as close as ruby and python) isn't constructive. but ok, let's try * both claim to be very easy to learn (ruby by having a very nice syntax, python by limitating the features from the syntax) * writing python code is very boring when you come from featured. langages like ruby or perl. nothing can be expressed a simple way. * ruby is slow ... i mean: even for a dynamic language. * both langages have libs for libraries for libraries but lack something as robust and usefull as CPAN (and related tools) * python has an equivalent of the perl PDL (scipy) * python has Natural Language Toolkit (equivalent in other langages ?) your basic goal | your langage - write/maintain faster | perl reuse existing faster | python learn faster | ruby executefaster | you're probably screwed. experiment lua, go, haskell, rust regards -- Marc Chantreux Université de Strasbourg, Direction Informatique 14 Rue René Descartes, 67084 STRASBOURG CEDEX ☎: 03.68.85.57.40 http://unistra.fr Don't believe everything you read on the Internet -- Abraham Lincoln
Re: [CODE4LIB] Python and Ruby
As of Ruby 1.9, I would dispute the Ruby is slower than everything case. There's lots of evidence to the contrary, e.g. http://www.unlimitednovelty.com/2012/06/ruby-is-faster-than-python-php-and-perl.html Jason -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Marc Chantreux Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2013 11:25 AM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Python and Ruby On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 10:25:14AM -0500, Matthew Sherman wrote: Ok folks, we have veered into nonconstructive territory. How about we come back to the original question and help this person figure out what they need to about Ruby and Python so they can do well with what they want to work on. comparing languages on objective criterias (especially when they are as close as ruby and python) isn't constructive. but ok, let's try * both claim to be very easy to learn (ruby by having a very nice syntax, python by limitating the features from the syntax) * writing python code is very boring when you come from featured. langages like ruby or perl. nothing can be expressed a simple way. * ruby is slow ... i mean: even for a dynamic language. * both langages have libs for libraries for libraries but lack something as robust and usefull as CPAN (and related tools) * python has an equivalent of the perl PDL (scipy) * python has Natural Language Toolkit (equivalent in other langages ?) your basic goal | your langage - write/maintain faster | perl reuse existing faster | python learn faster | ruby executefaster | you're probably screwed. experiment lua, go, haskell, rust regards -- Marc Chantreux Université de Strasbourg, Direction Informatique 14 Rue René Descartes, 67084 STRASBOURG CEDEX ☎: 03.68.85.57.40 http://unistra.fr Don't believe everything you read on the Internet -- Abraham Lincoln
Re: [CODE4LIB] Python and Ruby
Hi, Python, Python, Python. Did I say Python? -Pythonist- Cornel Darden Jr. MSLIS Librarian Kennedy-King College City Colleges of Chicago Work 773-602-5449 Cell 708-705-2945 On Jul 30, 2013, at 11:09 AM, Joshua Welker wel...@ucmo.edu wrote: I think I have the information I need at this point, so this would be a good time to let this thread die before it turns into what I tried to avoid in the first place. Josh Welker Information Technology Librarian James C. Kirkpatrick Library University of Central Missouri Warrensburg, MO 64093 JCKL 2260 660.543.8022 -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Matthew Sherman Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2013 10:25 AM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Python and Ruby Ok folks, we have veered into nonconstructive territory. How about we come back to the original question and help this person figure out what they need to about Ruby and Python so they can do well with what they want to work on. On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 10:18 AM, Ethan Gruber ewg4x...@gmail.com wrote: All languages other than assembly are boutique and must be eliminated like the cancer that they are. On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 11:14 AM, Ross Singer rossfsin...@gmail.com wrote: What would you consider a boutique language? What isn't? -Ross. On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 10:21 AM, Rich Wenger rwen...@mit.edu wrote: The proliferation of boutique languages is a cancer on our community. Each one is a YAP (Yet Another Priesthood), and little else. The world does not need five slightly varying syntaxes for a substring function. If I had switched languages every time the web community recommended it, I would have rewritten a mountain of apps at least twice in the past five years. What's next, a separate language to put periods at the end of sentences? Just my $.02. That is all. Rich Wenger E-Resource Systems Manager, MIT Libraries rwen...@mit.edu 617-253-0035 -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@listserv.nd.edu] On Behalf Of Joshua Welker Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2013 9:56 AM To: CODE4LIB@listserv.nd.edu Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Python and Ruby I am already a big user of PHP for web apps, but PHP does not make a fantastic scripting language in my experience. Josh Welker Information Technology Librarian James C. Kirkpatrick Library University of Central Missouri Warrensburg, MO 64093 JCKL 2260 660.543.8022 -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Riley Childs Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2013 8:18 AM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Python and Ruby No mention of PHP? Sent from my iPhone On Jul 30, 2013, at 9:14 AM, Kurt Nordstrom doseofvitam...@gmail.com wrote: Whoohoo, late to the party! I like Python because I learned it first, and I haven't had a need to explore Ruby yet. I did briefly foray into learning Ruby in order to try to learn Rails, and I actually found that my background in Python sort of gave me brain-jam for learning Ruby, because the languages were so close together, but just different in some ways. So my mind would be 'oh, so it's just insert Python idiom here but then, it's not. If I tackle Ruby again, I will definitely try to 'empty my cup' first. -K On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 8:55 AM, Marc Chantreux m...@unistra.fr wrote: hello, Sorry comming late with it but: On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 10:43:33AM -0500, Joshua Welker wrote: Not intending to start a language flame war/holy war here, but in the library coding community, is there a particular reason to use Ruby over Python or vice-versa? Is it the only choices you have? Because I'd personnally advice none of them I tested both of them before stucking to Perl just because * it is very pleasant when it come to explore and modify datastructures and strings (which library things are). * the ecosystem is briliant: perl comes with lot of libraries and tools with a quality i haven't found in other languages. Of course, perl is not perfect and i really would like to use a modern emerging compiled language like go, rust, haskell or even something on the jvm (like clojure or the emerging perl6) but all of them miss libraries. HTH regards -- Marc Chantreux Université de Strasbourg, Direction Informatique 14 Rue René Descartes, 67084 STRASBOURG CEDEX ☎: 03.68.85.57.40 http://unistra.fr Don't believe everything you read on the Internet -- Abraham Lincoln -- http://www.blar.net/kurt/blog/
Re: [CODE4LIB] Python and Ruby
Has anyone tried coding using one of these? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3keLeMwfHY
Re: [CODE4LIB] Python and Ruby
It's extremely eerie how this thread has played out almost exactly like a similar one in 2010: http://bit.ly/4kb77v Creatures of habit, we are. On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 12:55 PM, Levy, Michael ml...@ushmm.org wrote: Has anyone tried coding using one of these? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3keLeMwfHY
[CODE4LIB] Python and Ruby
Not intending to start a language flame war/holy war here, but in the library coding community, is there a particular reason to use Ruby over Python or vice-versa? I am personally comfortable with Python, but I have noticed that there is a big Ruby following in Code4Lib and similar communities. Am I going to be able to contribute and work better with the community if I use Ruby rather than Python? I am 100% aware that there is no objective way to answer which of the two languages is the best. I am interested in the much more narrow question of which will work better for library-related scripting projects in terms of the following factors: -existing modules that I can re-use that are related to libraries (MARC tools, XML/RDF tools, modules released by major vendors, etc) -availability of help from others in the community -interest/ability of others to re-use my code Thanks. Josh Welker Information Technology Librarian James C. Kirkpatrick Library University of Central Missouri Warrensburg, MO 64093 JCKL 2260 660.543.8022
Re: [CODE4LIB] Python and Ruby
Salvete! More importantly, am I the only one that sees a classic Highlander inspired Code4Lib T Shirt in this? From the makers of the beating a dead horse graphic and the OCLC seal of approval... Make it so! Cheers, Brooke
Re: [CODE4LIB] Python and Ruby
IMO, you will be equally productive and connected to the community whether you use Ruby or Python. Let a thousand flowers bloom, and all that rot. -Mike P.S. WHTESPCE On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 8:43 AM, Joshua Welker wel...@ucmo.edu wrote: Not intending to start a language flame war/holy war here, but in the library coding community, is there a particular reason to use Ruby over Python or vice-versa? I am personally comfortable with Python, but I have noticed that there is a big Ruby following in Code4Lib and similar communities. Am I going to be able to contribute and work better with the community if I use Ruby rather than Python? I am 100% aware that there is no objective way to answer which of the two languages is the best. I am interested in the much more narrow question of which will work better for library-related scripting projects in terms of the following factors: -existing modules that I can re-use that are related to libraries (MARC tools, XML/RDF tools, modules released by major vendors, etc) -availability of help from others in the community -interest/ability of others to re-use my code Thanks. Josh Welker Information Technology Librarian James C. Kirkpatrick Library University of Central Missouri Warrensburg, MO 64093 JCKL 2260 660.543.8022
Re: [CODE4LIB] Python and Ruby
Josh, I think it depends on the project you're looking to get involved with. Speaking as a rubyist, I'm using it because I'm active in the Hydra community which uses Ruby on Rails. However, I see a lot of great stuff across the Python fence and think, hey it'd be cool to learn enough about Python so I can do that. So Python's next on my list of languages to learn. Incidentally, the whole reason I learned Ruby was to start using Hydra… so for me it came down the project. For now, I would go with what you know (Python) and if you see something in particular that will really solve a problem that you have and it happens to be in X, then maybe learn a little bit of X to take that software for a test drive and if it works, learn X some more. To address the the last three points regarding Ruby and Python, I think there are tools for either, ex: PyMarc and RubyMarc… and the communities for both Python and Ruby are large and very healthy. I should also add that being my own sys. admin., I avoided the (potential) issue of trying to convince your sys. admin. or hosting service, etc. that you want to use Rails, for example, instead of the web platform you're currently using. …adam __ Adam Wead Systems and Digital Collections Librarian Library + Archives Rock and Roll Hall of Fame and Museum 216.515.1960 aw...@rockhall.org On Jul 29, 2013, at 11:43 AM, Joshua Welker wel...@ucmo.edu wrote: Not intending to start a language flame war/holy war here, but in the library coding community, is there a particular reason to use Ruby over Python or vice-versa? I am personally comfortable with Python, but I have noticed that there is a big Ruby following in Code4Lib and similar communities. Am I going to be able to contribute and work better with the community if I use Ruby rather than Python? I am 100% aware that there is no objective way to answer which of the two languages is the best. I am interested in the much more narrow question of which will work better for library-related scripting projects in terms of the following factors: -existing modules that I can re-use that are related to libraries (MARC tools, XML/RDF tools, modules released by major vendors, etc) -availability of help from others in the community -interest/ability of others to re-use my code Thanks. Josh Welker Information Technology Librarian James C. Kirkpatrick Library University of Central Missouri Warrensburg, MO 64093 JCKL 2260 660.543.8022 This communication is a confidential and proprietary business communication. It is intended solely for the use of the designated recipient(s). If this communication is received in error, please contact the sender and delete this communication.
Re: [CODE4LIB] Python and Ruby
Yes, we wouldn't want a flame war, besides, everyone knows that real programmers use APL. X ← 3 3⍴÷⍳9 ⋄ Y ← DATA[⍋DATA] ⍝ If you can read this, nice font choices Really, your message is a grenade. If you want to build a Python community in the library world, create a compelling project. I am sure that many folks have been inspired to learn RoR because of Hydra. You could do the same for Python (or Scala or Haskell or APL). Python is a nice language, and I use it for systems scripting, mostly because I don't love Perl. Cary On Jul 29, 2013, at 8:43 AM, Joshua Welker wel...@ucmo.edu wrote: Not intending to start a language flame war/holy war here, but in the library coding community, is there a particular reason to use Ruby over Python or vice-versa? I am personally comfortable with Python, but I have noticed that there is a big Ruby following in Code4Lib and similar communities. Am I going to be able to contribute and work better with the community if I use Ruby rather than Python? I am 100% aware that there is no objective way to answer which of the two languages is the best. I am interested in the much more narrow question of which will work better for library-related scripting projects in terms of the following factors: -existing modules that I can re-use that are related to libraries (MARC tools, XML/RDF tools, modules released by major vendors, etc) -availability of help from others in the community -interest/ability of others to re-use my code Thanks. Josh Welker Information Technology Librarian James C. Kirkpatrick Library University of Central Missouri Warrensburg, MO 64093 JCKL 2260 660.543.8022
Re: [CODE4LIB] Python and Ruby
Also, Ruby is just Python with end statements. So if you learn one, you're mostly learning the other. ;) -Mike On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 9:27 AM, Cary Gordon listu...@chillco.com wrote: Yes, we wouldn't want a flame war, besides, everyone knows that real programmers use APL. X ← 3 3⍴÷⍳9 ⋄ Y ← DATA[⍋DATA] ⍝ If you can read this, nice font choices Really, your message is a grenade. If you want to build a Python community in the library world, create a compelling project. I am sure that many folks have been inspired to learn RoR because of Hydra. You could do the same for Python (or Scala or Haskell or APL). Python is a nice language, and I use it for systems scripting, mostly because I don't love Perl. Cary On Jul 29, 2013, at 8:43 AM, Joshua Welker wel...@ucmo.edu wrote: Not intending to start a language flame war/holy war here, but in the library coding community, is there a particular reason to use Ruby over Python or vice-versa? I am personally comfortable with Python, but I have noticed that there is a big Ruby following in Code4Lib and similar communities. Am I going to be able to contribute and work better with the community if I use Ruby rather than Python? I am 100% aware that there is no objective way to answer which of the two languages is the best. I am interested in the much more narrow question of which will work better for library-related scripting projects in terms of the following factors: -existing modules that I can re-use that are related to libraries (MARC tools, XML/RDF tools, modules released by major vendors, etc) -availability of help from others in the community -interest/ability of others to re-use my code Thanks. Josh Welker Information Technology Librarian James C. Kirkpatrick Library University of Central Missouri Warrensburg, MO 64093 JCKL 2260 660.543.8022
Re: [CODE4LIB] Python and Ruby
APL, of course! On Jul 29, 2013, at 9:57 AM, Peter Schlumpf pschlu...@earthlink.net wrote: Python and Ruby (and any other programming languages) are just tools. Some do some things better than others. Imagine if the library community had its own programming/scripting language, at least one that is domain relevant. What would it look like? Peter Schlumpf -Original Message- From: Joshua Welker wel...@ucmo.edu Sent: Jul 29, 2013 10:43 AM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: [CODE4LIB] Python and Ruby Not intending to start a language flame war/holy war here, but in the library coding community, is there a particular reason to use Ruby over Python or vice-versa? I am personally comfortable with Python, but I have noticed that there is a big Ruby following in Code4Lib and similar communities. Am I going to be able to contribute and work better with the community if I use Ruby rather than Python? I am 100% aware that there is no objective way to answer which of the two languages is the best. I am interested in the much more narrow question of which will work better for library-related scripting projects in terms of the following factors: -existing modules that I can re-use that are related to libraries (MARC tools, XML/RDF tools, modules released by major vendors, etc) -availability of help from others in the community -interest/ability of others to re-use my code Thanks. Josh Welker Information Technology Librarian James C. Kirkpatrick Library University of Central Missouri Warrensburg, MO 64093 JCKL 2260 660.543.8022
Re: [CODE4LIB] Python and Ruby
On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 9:57 AM, Peter Schlumpf pschlu...@earthlink.net wrote: Imagine if the library community had its own programming/scripting language, at least one that is domain relevant. What would it look like? Whatever else it had, it would have to have a sophisticated way to inspect text for patterns -- that is, regular expressions. Roy
Re: [CODE4LIB] Python and Ruby
On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 12:57 PM, Peter Schlumpf pschlu...@earthlink.net wrote: Imagine if the library community had its own programming/scripting language, at least one that is domain relevant. What would it look like? Ok, I think I'm going to have nightmares about that. //Ed
Re: [CODE4LIB] Python and Ruby
Hi, A programming language for the library community sounds great! When do we begin? Thanks, Cornel Darden Jr. MSLIS Librarian Kennedy-King College City Colleges of Chicago Work 773-602-5449 Cell 708-705-2945 On Jul 29, 2013, at 11:57 AM, Peter Schlumpf pschlu...@earthlink.net wrote: Python and Ruby (and any other programming languages) are just tools. Some do some things better than others. Imagine if the library community had its own programming/scripting language, at least one that is domain relevant. What would it look like? Peter Schlumpf -Original Message- From: Joshua Welker wel...@ucmo.edu Sent: Jul 29, 2013 10:43 AM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: [CODE4LIB] Python and Ruby Not intending to start a language flame war/holy war here, but in the library coding community, is there a particular reason to use Ruby over Python or vice-versa? I am personally comfortable with Python, but I have noticed that there is a big Ruby following in Code4Lib and similar communities. Am I going to be able to contribute and work better with the community if I use Ruby rather than Python? I am 100% aware that there is no objective way to answer which of the two languages is the best. I am interested in the much more narrow question of which will work better for library-related scripting projects in terms of the following factors: -existing modules that I can re-use that are related to libraries (MARC tools, XML/RDF tools, modules released by major vendors, etc) -availability of help from others in the community -interest/ability of others to re-use my code Thanks. Josh Welker Information Technology Librarian James C. Kirkpatrick Library University of Central Missouri Warrensburg, MO 64093 JCKL 2260 660.543.8022
Re: [CODE4LIB] Python and Ruby
Ed Summers writes Ok, I think I'm going to have nightmares about that. It will have to support tippex on screens. Cheers, Thomas Krichelhttp://openlib.org/home/krichel skype:thomaskrichel
Re: [CODE4LIB] Python and Ruby
On 7/29/2013 1:04 PM, Ed Summers wrote: Ok, I think I'm going to have nightmares about that. //Ed Over the code or the manual? --jimm
Re: [CODE4LIB] Python and Ruby
On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 1:08 PM, jimm wetherbee j...@wingate.edu wrote: On 7/29/2013 1:04 PM, Ed Summers wrote: Ok, I think I'm going to have nightmares about that. //Ed Over the code or the manual? Over the NISO standardization process required to form the exploratory committee. -Ross. --jimm --
Re: [CODE4LIB] Python and Ruby
I think it mostly comes down to what you're looking for out of the language choice. Both are great language. I love the explicitness and community around Python, the meta-programming features of Ruby are a lot of fun as well. Both have great communities that support a lot of diversity. I feel python comes out a bit better on this but only just a bit. Some great fits for Python in libraries. - Syntax is easy to learn so if you have to get a team working on the same skillset this is a big advantage. - If you need to work with scholars who need to learn programming, the easy of learning python is a big advantage here. - If you work in natural language processing or with geo-spacial data then python is particularly well suited. - You need a stable language with good backwards compatibility. Some great fits for Ruby in libraries: - If you do a lot of web development Rails is an obvious advantage, though rails dominance is almost a disservice to the Ruby community by how much it obscures the language. - If you work with unstructured data I think Ruby comes out a little on top (just a little) and there are some neat meta-programming techniques to read and work with XML in ruby. - You work in a DevOps environment and need to do a lot of server provisioning, the Puppet library offers a lot to a group and leverages Ruby. - In libraries custom Fedora repository work is often done using the Hydra gems I don't think there's one better choice, it just comes down to knowing what you need to develop as far as a local community goes and picking the one that is best suited for those use cases. That said, I tend to enjoy working in Python more than Ruby. Most of my gripes with Ruby are actually probably with Rails so as a language I really do think they are both fine and I only have a slight preference for one. On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 11:43 AM, Joshua Welker wel...@ucmo.edu wrote: Not intending to start a language flame war/holy war here, but in the library coding community, is there a particular reason to use Ruby over Python or vice-versa? I am personally comfortable with Python, but I have noticed that there is a big Ruby following in Code4Lib and similar communities. Am I going to be able to contribute and work better with the community if I use Ruby rather than Python? I am 100% aware that there is no objective way to answer which of the two languages is the best. I am interested in the much more narrow question of which will work better for library-related scripting projects in terms of the following factors: -existing modules that I can re-use that are related to libraries (MARC tools, XML/RDF tools, modules released by major vendors, etc) -availability of help from others in the community -interest/ability of others to re-use my code Thanks. Josh Welker Information Technology Librarian James C. Kirkpatrick Library University of Central Missouri Warrensburg, MO 64093 JCKL 2260 660.543.8022 -- *Scott Turnbull* APTrust Technical Lead scott.turnb...@aptrust.org www.aptrust.org 678-379-9488
Re: [CODE4LIB] Python and Ruby
Did someone ask for a Hydra-like thing using Python? https://github.com/emory-libraries/eulfedora It's really a pretty cool piece of work, and worth a look, even if you're absolutely sure RoR (or PHP and Drupal, or Java) is your thing. -- HARDY POTTINGER pottinge...@umsystem.edu University of Missouri Library Systems http://lso.umsystem.edu/~pottingerhj/ https://MOspace.umsystem.edu/ And remember, also added the Princesss of Sweet Rhyme, that many places you would like to see are just off the Map and many things you want to know are just out of sight or a little beyond your reach. But someday you'll reach them after all, for what you learn today, for no reason at all, will help you discover all the wonderful secrets of tomorrow. --Norton Juster, The Phantom Tollbooth On 7/29/13 11:42 AM, Michael J. Giarlo leftw...@alumni.rutgers.edu wrote: Also, Ruby is just Python with end statements. So if you learn one, you're mostly learning the other. ;) -Mike On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 9:27 AM, Cary Gordon listu...@chillco.com wrote: Yes, we wouldn't want a flame war, besides, everyone knows that real programmers use APL. X ← 3 3⍴÷⍳9 ⋄ Y ← DATA[⍋DATA] ⍝ If you can read this, nice font choices Really, your message is a grenade. If you want to build a Python community in the library world, create a compelling project. I am sure that many folks have been inspired to learn RoR because of Hydra. You could do the same for Python (or Scala or Haskell or APL). Python is a nice language, and I use it for systems scripting, mostly because I don't love Perl. Cary On Jul 29, 2013, at 8:43 AM, Joshua Welker wel...@ucmo.edu wrote: Not intending to start a language flame war/holy war here, but in the library coding community, is there a particular reason to use Ruby over Python or vice-versa? I am personally comfortable with Python, but I have noticed that there is a big Ruby following in Code4Lib and similar communities. Am I going to be able to contribute and work better with the community if I use Ruby rather than Python? I am 100% aware that there is no objective way to answer which of the two languages is the best. I am interested in the much more narrow question of which will work better for library-related scripting projects in terms of the following factors: -existing modules that I can re-use that are related to libraries (MARC tools, XML/RDF tools, modules released by major vendors, etc) -availability of help from others in the community -interest/ability of others to re-use my code Thanks. Josh Welker Information Technology Librarian James C. Kirkpatrick Library University of Central Missouri Warrensburg, MO 64093 JCKL 2260 660.543.8022
Re: [CODE4LIB] Python and Ruby
Josh, I work exclusively with XSLT but specialize in metadata only no need for content display choices maybe a candidate for library programming language...XSLT 2.0 has useful analyze-string element to cover Roy's point by the way, Josh, live just down the road in Leeton regards, dana On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 12:04 PM, Roy Tennant roytenn...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 9:57 AM, Peter Schlumpf pschlu...@earthlink.net wrote: Imagine if the library community had its own programming/scripting language, at least one that is domain relevant. What would it look like? Whatever else it had, it would have to have a sophisticated way to inspect text for patterns -- that is, regular expressions. Roy -- Dana Pearson dbpearsonmlis.com
Re: [CODE4LIB] Python and Ruby
One thing to factor in is that if you learn ruby you run the risk of becoming one of those people who constantly talks,tweets,blogs, posts to this mailing list about how great ruby is. This can have a very negative impact on your work productivity. On Monday, July 29, 2013, Dana Pearson wrote: Josh, I work exclusively with XSLT but specialize in metadata only no need for content display choices maybe a candidate for library programming language...XSLT 2.0 has useful analyze-string element to cover Roy's point by the way, Josh, live just down the road in Leeton regards, dana On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 12:04 PM, Roy Tennant roytenn...@gmail.comjavascript:; wrote: On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 9:57 AM, Peter Schlumpf pschlu...@earthlink.netjavascript:; wrote: Imagine if the library community had its own programming/scripting language, at least one that is domain relevant. What would it look like? Whatever else it had, it would have to have a sophisticated way to inspect text for patterns -- that is, regular expressions. Roy -- Dana Pearson dbpearsonmlis.com
Re: [CODE4LIB] Python and Ruby
Thanks, this is more along the lines I was looking for. I started using Python because PHP (my usual web language of choice) has quite poor libraries for SOAP requests, and Python was easy to use as a glue script to fill the SOAP holes in my program. One of the things I wanted to ask that went largely unanswered is what kinds of typical library coding activities are not very well supported in either language? For instance: -MARC i/o (both have this covered, I know, but it is a prime example) -XML tools -SPARQL tools -Working with Solr -MySQL/Postgres tools -Screen scraping tools -SOAP/REST tools ...etc. And I am limiting my inquiry to Python and Ruby because I am looking for quick glue script languages and not something to write a whole web app. For instance, something I can schedule as a cron task to get some remote data and index it locally. I would use PHP or Java for a full-blown application. I guess I should include Perl in the discussion, too, but Perl's syntax is a little heady for me. I am not trying to be incendiary here, so I hope you all do not respond to me as such. I think these are pretty reasonable and concrete questions. It's not like I'm asking What's the best language? in a general and open-ended way. Josh Welker Information Technology Librarian James C. Kirkpatrick Library University of Central Missouri Warrensburg, MO 64093 JCKL 2260 660.543.8022 -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Scott Turnbull Sent: Monday, July 29, 2013 12:17 PM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Python and Ruby I think it mostly comes down to what you're looking for out of the language choice. Both are great language. I love the explicitness and community around Python, the meta-programming features of Ruby are a lot of fun as well. Both have great communities that support a lot of diversity. I feel python comes out a bit better on this but only just a bit. Some great fits for Python in libraries. - Syntax is easy to learn so if you have to get a team working on the same skillset this is a big advantage. - If you need to work with scholars who need to learn programming, the easy of learning python is a big advantage here. - If you work in natural language processing or with geo-spacial data then python is particularly well suited. - You need a stable language with good backwards compatibility. Some great fits for Ruby in libraries: - If you do a lot of web development Rails is an obvious advantage, though rails dominance is almost a disservice to the Ruby community by how much it obscures the language. - If you work with unstructured data I think Ruby comes out a little on top (just a little) and there are some neat meta-programming techniques to read and work with XML in ruby. - You work in a DevOps environment and need to do a lot of server provisioning, the Puppet library offers a lot to a group and leverages Ruby. - In libraries custom Fedora repository work is often done using the Hydra gems I don't think there's one better choice, it just comes down to knowing what you need to develop as far as a local community goes and picking the one that is best suited for those use cases. That said, I tend to enjoy working in Python more than Ruby. Most of my gripes with Ruby are actually probably with Rails so as a language I really do think they are both fine and I only have a slight preference for one. On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 11:43 AM, Joshua Welker wel...@ucmo.edu wrote: Not intending to start a language flame war/holy war here, but in the library coding community, is there a particular reason to use Ruby over Python or vice-versa? I am personally comfortable with Python, but I have noticed that there is a big Ruby following in Code4Lib and similar communities. Am I going to be able to contribute and work better with the community if I use Ruby rather than Python? I am 100% aware that there is no objective way to answer which of the two languages is the best. I am interested in the much more narrow question of which will work better for library-related scripting projects in terms of the following factors: -existing modules that I can re-use that are related to libraries (MARC tools, XML/RDF tools, modules released by major vendors, etc) -availability of help from others in the community -interest/ability of others to re-use my code Thanks. Josh Welker Information Technology Librarian James C. Kirkpatrick Library University of Central Missouri Warrensburg, MO 64093 JCKL 2260 660.543.8022 -- *Scott Turnbull* APTrust Technical Lead scott.turnb...@aptrust.org www.aptrust.org 678-379-9488
Re: [CODE4LIB] Python and Ruby
Library community programming is heavy on the string processing, right? So, just use a language that's good for that. Anyway, once you learn one, it's faster to learn another. -Wilhelmina Randtke On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 11:57 AM, Peter Schlumpf pschlu...@earthlink.netwrote: Python and Ruby (and any other programming languages) are just tools. Some do some things better than others. Imagine if the library community had its own programming/scripting language, at least one that is domain relevant. What would it look like? Peter Schlumpf -Original Message- From: Joshua Welker wel...@ucmo.edu Sent: Jul 29, 2013 10:43 AM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: [CODE4LIB] Python and Ruby Not intending to start a language flame war/holy war here, but in the library coding community, is there a particular reason to use Ruby over Python or vice-versa? I am personally comfortable with Python, but I have noticed that there is a big Ruby following in Code4Lib and similar communities. Am I going to be able to contribute and work better with the community if I use Ruby rather than Python? I am 100% aware that there is no objective way to answer which of the two languages is the best. I am interested in the much more narrow question of which will work better for library-related scripting projects in terms of the following factors: -existing modules that I can re-use that are related to libraries (MARC tools, XML/RDF tools, modules released by major vendors, etc) -availability of help from others in the community -interest/ability of others to re-use my code Thanks. Josh Welker Information Technology Librarian James C. Kirkpatrick Library University of Central Missouri Warrensburg, MO 64093 JCKL 2260 660.543.8022
Re: [CODE4LIB] Python and Ruby
I can only answer for the Ruby support, I can't compare Ruby libs to Python libs on these, but: MARC: there's Ruby-MARC. I helped write it, so I'm biased. XML tools: depends on what you need. In general, Ruby doesn't have great support for sophisticated XML problems. Nokogiri has a great API for DOM parsing. Code4libbers have reported plenty of frustrations with bugs, though. SAX support exists, but is wanting. See also, xslt. You can use the fairly close to the metal libxml ruby bindings, as well, but the API is very non-Ruby. SPARQL tools: rdf.rb provides some fantastic libraries. There's a SPARQL gem, although it doesn't provide SPARQL update or property paths ( https://github.com/ruby-rdf/sparql). That only matters to you, if, you know, it matters to you. Solr: There's rsolr and sunspot. If you ever decide you'd like to try ElasticSearch, there's Tire, which is great (I use it all the time). MySQL/PostgreSQL: there are lots of ORMs, if that's what you're looking for. ActiveRecord is the most common, although DataMapper has a better API (IMO). I use Sequel a lot for performance or for PostgreSQL-specific functionality (array/hstore fields, etc.) Screen scraping tools: these exist, but I'm not all the familiar with them. I mostly just use HTTParty and Nokogiri. SOAP: Again, YMMV with this. I think Savon has a fantastic API, but I have no idea how well it deals with the vagaries of different SOAP server responses. REST: There's the aforementioned HTTParty, although rest-client is probably the most commonly used. I think it's probably unrealistic to expect one language to handle all of these well (well, there's Java, but then you've got other factors to weigh). I've found Ruby to be a pretty good all-purpose language. Most of my maintenance tools are written in Ruby as rake tasks (despite the fact that the primary project I work on is written in PHP). It helps that Ruby's performance is beginning to catch up to Python's (although Python is still faster for most things, I think). -Ross. On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 3:19 PM, Joshua Welker wel...@ucmo.edu wrote: Thanks, this is more along the lines I was looking for. I started using Python because PHP (my usual web language of choice) has quite poor libraries for SOAP requests, and Python was easy to use as a glue script to fill the SOAP holes in my program. One of the things I wanted to ask that went largely unanswered is what kinds of typical library coding activities are not very well supported in either language? For instance: -MARC i/o (both have this covered, I know, but it is a prime example) -XML tools -SPARQL tools -Working with Solr -MySQL/Postgres tools -Screen scraping tools -SOAP/REST tools ...etc. And I am limiting my inquiry to Python and Ruby because I am looking for quick glue script languages and not something to write a whole web app. For instance, something I can schedule as a cron task to get some remote data and index it locally. I would use PHP or Java for a full-blown application. I guess I should include Perl in the discussion, too, but Perl's syntax is a little heady for me. I am not trying to be incendiary here, so I hope you all do not respond to me as such. I think these are pretty reasonable and concrete questions. It's not like I'm asking What's the best language? in a general and open-ended way. Josh Welker Information Technology Librarian James C. Kirkpatrick Library University of Central Missouri Warrensburg, MO 64093 JCKL 2260 660.543.8022 -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Scott Turnbull Sent: Monday, July 29, 2013 12:17 PM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Python and Ruby I think it mostly comes down to what you're looking for out of the language choice. Both are great language. I love the explicitness and community around Python, the meta-programming features of Ruby are a lot of fun as well. Both have great communities that support a lot of diversity. I feel python comes out a bit better on this but only just a bit. Some great fits for Python in libraries. - Syntax is easy to learn so if you have to get a team working on the same skillset this is a big advantage. - If you need to work with scholars who need to learn programming, the easy of learning python is a big advantage here. - If you work in natural language processing or with geo-spacial data then python is particularly well suited. - You need a stable language with good backwards compatibility. Some great fits for Ruby in libraries: - If you do a lot of web development Rails is an obvious advantage, though rails dominance is almost a disservice to the Ruby community by how much it obscures the language. - If you work with unstructured data I think Ruby comes out a little on top (just a little) and there are some neat meta-programming techniques to read and work with XML
Re: [CODE4LIB] Python and Ruby
s/ruby/any_language/ Why not learn both? As with spoken languages, knowing more than one makes it easier for you to think at a higher level of abstraction and therefore a better developer, and, as others have alluded to, will allow you to choose the 'right tool [framework, library, etc] for the right job'. Plus, as Giarlo said, they're not really that different. From: Code for Libraries [CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] on behalf of Chris Fitzpatrick [chrisfitz...@gmail.com] Sent: Monday, July 29, 2013 1:39 PM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Python and Ruby One thing to factor in is that if you learn ruby you run the risk of becoming one of those people who constantly talks,tweets,blogs, posts to this mailing list about how great ruby is. This can have a very negative impact on your work productivity. On Monday, July 29, 2013, Dana Pearson wrote: Josh, I work exclusively with XSLT but specialize in metadata only no need for content display choices maybe a candidate for library programming language...XSLT 2.0 has useful analyze-string element to cover Roy's point by the way, Josh, live just down the road in Leeton regards, dana On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 12:04 PM, Roy Tennant roytenn...@gmail.comjavascript:; wrote: On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 9:57 AM, Peter Schlumpf pschlu...@earthlink.netjavascript:; wrote: Imagine if the library community had its own programming/scripting language, at least one that is domain relevant. What would it look like? Whatever else it had, it would have to have a sophisticated way to inspect text for patterns -- that is, regular expressions. Roy -- Dana Pearson dbpearsonmlis.com
Re: [CODE4LIB] Python and Ruby
This is exactly what I was looking for. Thank you. And props for RubyMARC! I have heard lots of good things. Josh Welker Information Technology Librarian James C. Kirkpatrick Library University of Central Missouri Warrensburg, MO 64093 JCKL 2260 660.543.8022 -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Ross Singer Sent: Monday, July 29, 2013 2:55 PM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Python and Ruby I can only answer for the Ruby support, I can't compare Ruby libs to Python libs on these, but: MARC: there's Ruby-MARC. I helped write it, so I'm biased. XML tools: depends on what you need. In general, Ruby doesn't have great support for sophisticated XML problems. Nokogiri has a great API for DOM parsing. Code4libbers have reported plenty of frustrations with bugs, though. SAX support exists, but is wanting. See also, xslt. You can use the fairly close to the metal libxml ruby bindings, as well, but the API is very non-Ruby. SPARQL tools: rdf.rb provides some fantastic libraries. There's a SPARQL gem, although it doesn't provide SPARQL update or property paths ( https://github.com/ruby-rdf/sparql). That only matters to you, if, you know, it matters to you. Solr: There's rsolr and sunspot. If you ever decide you'd like to try ElasticSearch, there's Tire, which is great (I use it all the time). MySQL/PostgreSQL: there are lots of ORMs, if that's what you're looking for. ActiveRecord is the most common, although DataMapper has a better API (IMO). I use Sequel a lot for performance or for PostgreSQL-specific functionality (array/hstore fields, etc.) Screen scraping tools: these exist, but I'm not all the familiar with them. I mostly just use HTTParty and Nokogiri. SOAP: Again, YMMV with this. I think Savon has a fantastic API, but I have no idea how well it deals with the vagaries of different SOAP server responses. REST: There's the aforementioned HTTParty, although rest-client is probably the most commonly used. I think it's probably unrealistic to expect one language to handle all of these well (well, there's Java, but then you've got other factors to weigh). I've found Ruby to be a pretty good all-purpose language. Most of my maintenance tools are written in Ruby as rake tasks (despite the fact that the primary project I work on is written in PHP). It helps that Ruby's performance is beginning to catch up to Python's (although Python is still faster for most things, I think). -Ross. On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 3:19 PM, Joshua Welker wel...@ucmo.edu wrote: Thanks, this is more along the lines I was looking for. I started using Python because PHP (my usual web language of choice) has quite poor libraries for SOAP requests, and Python was easy to use as a glue script to fill the SOAP holes in my program. One of the things I wanted to ask that went largely unanswered is what kinds of typical library coding activities are not very well supported in either language? For instance: -MARC i/o (both have this covered, I know, but it is a prime example) -XML tools -SPARQL tools -Working with Solr -MySQL/Postgres tools -Screen scraping tools -SOAP/REST tools ...etc. And I am limiting my inquiry to Python and Ruby because I am looking for quick glue script languages and not something to write a whole web app. For instance, something I can schedule as a cron task to get some remote data and index it locally. I would use PHP or Java for a full-blown application. I guess I should include Perl in the discussion, too, but Perl's syntax is a little heady for me. I am not trying to be incendiary here, so I hope you all do not respond to me as such. I think these are pretty reasonable and concrete questions. It's not like I'm asking What's the best language? in a general and open-ended way. Josh Welker Information Technology Librarian James C. Kirkpatrick Library University of Central Missouri Warrensburg, MO 64093 JCKL 2260 660.543.8022 -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Scott Turnbull Sent: Monday, July 29, 2013 12:17 PM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Python and Ruby I think it mostly comes down to what you're looking for out of the language choice. Both are great language. I love the explicitness and community around Python, the meta-programming features of Ruby are a lot of fun as well. Both have great communities that support a lot of diversity. I feel python comes out a bit better on this but only just a bit. Some great fits for Python in libraries. - Syntax is easy to learn so if you have to get a team working on the same skillset this is a big advantage. - If you need to work with scholars who need to learn programming, the easy of learning python is a big advantage here. - If you work in natural language processing or with geo-spacial data then python is particularly
Re: [CODE4LIB] Python and Ruby
Personally, I prefer Python. If you are wanting to do more information science-y things, Ruby doesn't have equivalent libraries for things like the Natural Language Toolkithttp://nltk.org/ or SciPyhttp://www.scipy.org/. In Ruby's defense, Python doesn't have Blacklighthttp://projectblacklight.org/, and the Python packaging system is terrible. For XML, nothing beats Java. If you want to use XSLT 2.0 in software then the JVM is your only option. The JVM is undergoing a kind of renaissance with all the cool languages that can run on it now: Clojure, jRuby, Jython, Scala. With these languages you can enjoy the scriptyness, while also being able to bring in the heavy-duty Java XML libraries if they are needed. James Little Digital Programmer Otto G. Richter Library | University of Miami On Jul 29, 2013, at 3:51 PM, Wilhelmina Randtke rand...@gmail.commailto:rand...@gmail.com wrote: Library community programming is heavy on the string processing, right? So, just use a language that's good for that. Anyway, once you learn one, it's faster to learn another. -Wilhelmina Randtke On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 11:57 AM, Peter Schlumpf pschlu...@earthlink.netmailto:pschlu...@earthlink.netwrote: Python and Ruby (and any other programming languages) are just tools. Some do some things better than others. Imagine if the library community had its own programming/scripting language, at least one that is domain relevant. What would it look like? Peter Schlumpf -Original Message- From: Joshua Welker wel...@ucmo.edumailto:wel...@ucmo.edu Sent: Jul 29, 2013 10:43 AM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDUmailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: [CODE4LIB] Python and Ruby Not intending to start a language flame war/holy war here, but in the library coding community, is there a particular reason to use Ruby over Python or vice-versa? I am personally comfortable with Python, but I have noticed that there is a big Ruby following in Code4Lib and similar communities. Am I going to be able to contribute and work better with the community if I use Ruby rather than Python? I am 100% aware that there is no objective way to answer which of the two languages is the best. I am interested in the much more narrow question of which will work better for library-related scripting projects in terms of the following factors: -existing modules that I can re-use that are related to libraries (MARC tools, XML/RDF tools, modules released by major vendors, etc) -availability of help from others in the community -interest/ability of others to re-use my code Thanks. Josh Welker Information Technology Librarian James C. Kirkpatrick Library University of Central Missouri Warrensburg, MO 64093 JCKL 2260 660.543.8022
Re: [CODE4LIB] Python and Ruby
I know they are very similar and that I could learn both, and ideally I would. It's not so much that I am intimidated by learning another language as it is that I don't want to start a project in Python and then realize 75% through the project that Module X doesn't work with Filetype Y and that the community no longer exists and that I have to rewrite the whole thing in Ruby. (This is exactly what happened when I tried to build a SUSHI client in PHP and realized PHP's SOAP libraries were not compatible with the style of SOAP responses specified in the SUSHI standard, and it was a big headache I'd like to avoid in the future.) Josh Welker Information Technology Librarian James C. Kirkpatrick Library University of Central Missouri Warrensburg, MO 64093 JCKL 2260 660.543.8022 -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Jon P. Stroop Sent: Monday, July 29, 2013 3:04 PM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Python and Ruby s/ruby/any_language/ Why not learn both? As with spoken languages, knowing more than one makes it easier for you to think at a higher level of abstraction and therefore a better developer, and, as others have alluded to, will allow you to choose the 'right tool [framework, library, etc] for the right job'. Plus, as Giarlo said, they're not really that different. From: Code for Libraries [CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] on behalf of Chris Fitzpatrick [chrisfitz...@gmail.com] Sent: Monday, July 29, 2013 1:39 PM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Python and Ruby One thing to factor in is that if you learn ruby you run the risk of becoming one of those people who constantly talks,tweets,blogs, posts to this mailing list about how great ruby is. This can have a very negative impact on your work productivity. On Monday, July 29, 2013, Dana Pearson wrote: Josh, I work exclusively with XSLT but specialize in metadata only no need for content display choices maybe a candidate for library programming language...XSLT 2.0 has useful analyze-string element to cover Roy's point by the way, Josh, live just down the road in Leeton regards, dana On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 12:04 PM, Roy Tennant roytenn...@gmail.comjavascript:; wrote: On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 9:57 AM, Peter Schlumpf pschlu...@earthlink.netjavascript:; wrote: Imagine if the library community had its own programming/scripting language, at least one that is domain relevant. What would it look like? Whatever else it had, it would have to have a sophisticated way to inspect text for patterns -- that is, regular expressions. Roy -- Dana Pearson dbpearsonmlis.com
Re: [CODE4LIB] Python and Ruby
Hi, My first email was an attempt at humour. Sorry, I didn't mean to jack your thread. Ruby is my language of choice, but I have done some work in Python. For all the things you listed, there are libraries in both languages that are probably as good as each other. Python has lxml, which is as good as Ruby's Nokogiri for XML stuff. Python has Sunburnt for Solr stuff, although I do really like Sunspot (and Tire for ElasticSearch is even better). Both Python and Ruby have mechanize for screen scraping, which was actually based off a Perl's WWW::Mechanize library... I will say that while Ruby has more web application building tools, I think Python is still more popular with science-y type people. Python seems to be what all Programming 101 for Non-CS Students classes use now, so I think Python has more data processing/science libraries, especially for things like Natural Language Processing and statistics. I went to a Semantic Web workshop and everyone was using Python or Java, although there are some Ruby libraries out there... That said, JRuby has really come a long way in the past year, so now it's easier to use the bad-ass Java libraries ( like Marc4j, CoreNLP, and Java's XML libraries) without actually having to put up with all the crap Java makes you submit to. In terms of speed/performance both Ruby and Python are equally terrible. I guess I'd just recommend instead of learning both languages, I would push myself to learn one really really well. That was something I learned the hard way when I was younger...always learning a language just well enough to get comfortable then getting bored and trying something else. good luck! On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 10:03 PM, Jon P. Stroop jstr...@princeton.eduwrote: s/ruby/any_language/ Why not learn both? As with spoken languages, knowing more than one makes it easier for you to think at a higher level of abstraction and therefore a better developer, and, as others have alluded to, will allow you to choose the 'right tool [framework, library, etc] for the right job'. Plus, as Giarlo said, they're not really that different. From: Code for Libraries [CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] on behalf of Chris Fitzpatrick [chrisfitz...@gmail.com] Sent: Monday, July 29, 2013 1:39 PM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Python and Ruby One thing to factor in is that if you learn ruby you run the risk of becoming one of those people who constantly talks,tweets,blogs, posts to this mailing list about how great ruby is. This can have a very negative impact on your work productivity. On Monday, July 29, 2013, Dana Pearson wrote: Josh, I work exclusively with XSLT but specialize in metadata only no need for content display choices maybe a candidate for library programming language...XSLT 2.0 has useful analyze-string element to cover Roy's point by the way, Josh, live just down the road in Leeton regards, dana On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 12:04 PM, Roy Tennant roytenn...@gmail.com javascript:; wrote: On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 9:57 AM, Peter Schlumpf pschlu...@earthlink.netjavascript:; wrote: Imagine if the library community had its own programming/scripting language, at least one that is domain relevant. What would it look like? Whatever else it had, it would have to have a sophisticated way to inspect text for patterns -- that is, regular expressions. Roy -- Dana Pearson dbpearsonmlis.com
Re: [CODE4LIB] Python and Ruby
I don't want to start a project in [Language_A] and then realize 75% through the project that Module X doesn't work with Filetype Y and that the community no longer exists and that I have to rewrite the whole thing in [Language_B]. I would just get used to that. On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 4:31 PM, Joshua Welker wel...@ucmo.edu wrote: I know they are very similar and that I could learn both, and ideally I would. It's not so much that I am intimidated by learning another language as it is that I don't want to start a project in Python and then realize 75% through the project that Module X doesn't work with Filetype Y and that the community no longer exists and that I have to rewrite the whole thing in Ruby. (This is exactly what happened when I tried to build a SUSHI client in PHP and realized PHP's SOAP libraries were not compatible with the style of SOAP responses specified in the SUSHI standard, and it was a big headache I'd like to avoid in the future.) Josh Welker Information Technology Librarian James C. Kirkpatrick Library University of Central Missouri Warrensburg, MO 64093 JCKL 2260 660.543.8022 -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Jon P. Stroop Sent: Monday, July 29, 2013 3:04 PM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Python and Ruby s/ruby/any_language/ Why not learn both? As with spoken languages, knowing more than one makes it easier for you to think at a higher level of abstraction and therefore a better developer, and, as others have alluded to, will allow you to choose the 'right tool [framework, library, etc] for the right job'. Plus, as Giarlo said, they're not really that different. From: Code for Libraries [CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] on behalf of Chris Fitzpatrick [chrisfitz...@gmail.com] Sent: Monday, July 29, 2013 1:39 PM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Python and Ruby One thing to factor in is that if you learn ruby you run the risk of becoming one of those people who constantly talks,tweets,blogs, posts to this mailing list about how great ruby is. This can have a very negative impact on your work productivity. On Monday, July 29, 2013, Dana Pearson wrote: Josh, I work exclusively with XSLT but specialize in metadata only no need for content display choices maybe a candidate for library programming language...XSLT 2.0 has useful analyze-string element to cover Roy's point by the way, Josh, live just down the road in Leeton regards, dana On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 12:04 PM, Roy Tennant roytenn...@gmail.comjavascript:; wrote: On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 9:57 AM, Peter Schlumpf pschlu...@earthlink.netjavascript:; wrote: Imagine if the library community had its own programming/scripting language, at least one that is domain relevant. What would it look like? Whatever else it had, it would have to have a sophisticated way to inspect text for patterns -- that is, regular expressions. Roy -- Dana Pearson dbpearsonmlis.com -- Sent from my GMail account.
Re: [CODE4LIB] Python and Ruby
Thanks for the insight. If I wanted to do a full scale semantic web application (nightmare scenario), I'd go Java anyway, not Python. I'm feeling more inclined to focus on Ruby rather than Python the more I read here. Josh Welker Information Technology Librarian James C. Kirkpatrick Library University of Central Missouri Warrensburg, MO 64093 JCKL 2260 660.543.8022 -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Chris Fitzpatrick Sent: Monday, July 29, 2013 3:34 PM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Python and Ruby Hi, My first email was an attempt at humour. Sorry, I didn't mean to jack your thread. Ruby is my language of choice, but I have done some work in Python. For all the things you listed, there are libraries in both languages that are probably as good as each other. Python has lxml, which is as good as Ruby's Nokogiri for XML stuff. Python has Sunburnt for Solr stuff, although I do really like Sunspot (and Tire for ElasticSearch is even better). Both Python and Ruby have mechanize for screen scraping, which was actually based off a Perl's WWW::Mechanize library... I will say that while Ruby has more web application building tools, I think Python is still more popular with science-y type people. Python seems to be what all Programming 101 for Non-CS Students classes use now, so I think Python has more data processing/science libraries, especially for things like Natural Language Processing and statistics. I went to a Semantic Web workshop and everyone was using Python or Java, although there are some Ruby libraries out there... That said, JRuby has really come a long way in the past year, so now it's easier to use the bad-ass Java libraries ( like Marc4j, CoreNLP, and Java's XML libraries) without actually having to put up with all the crap Java makes you submit to. In terms of speed/performance both Ruby and Python are equally terrible. I guess I'd just recommend instead of learning both languages, I would push myself to learn one really really well. That was something I learned the hard way when I was younger...always learning a language just well enough to get comfortable then getting bored and trying something else. good luck! On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 10:03 PM, Jon P. Stroop jstr...@princeton.eduwrote: s/ruby/any_language/ Why not learn both? As with spoken languages, knowing more than one makes it easier for you to think at a higher level of abstraction and therefore a better developer, and, as others have alluded to, will allow you to choose the 'right tool [framework, library, etc] for the right job'. Plus, as Giarlo said, they're not really that different. From: Code for Libraries [CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] on behalf of Chris Fitzpatrick [chrisfitz...@gmail.com] Sent: Monday, July 29, 2013 1:39 PM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Python and Ruby One thing to factor in is that if you learn ruby you run the risk of becoming one of those people who constantly talks,tweets,blogs, posts to this mailing list about how great ruby is. This can have a very negative impact on your work productivity. On Monday, July 29, 2013, Dana Pearson wrote: Josh, I work exclusively with XSLT but specialize in metadata only no need for content display choices maybe a candidate for library programming language...XSLT 2.0 has useful analyze-string element to cover Roy's point by the way, Josh, live just down the road in Leeton regards, dana On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 12:04 PM, Roy Tennant roytenn...@gmail.com javascript:; wrote: On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 9:57 AM, Peter Schlumpf pschlu...@earthlink.netjavascript:; wrote: Imagine if the library community had its own programming/scripting language, at least one that is domain relevant. What would it look like? Whatever else it had, it would have to have a sophisticated way to inspect text for patterns -- that is, regular expressions. Roy -- Dana Pearson dbpearsonmlis.com
Re: [CODE4LIB] Python and Ruby
I am thinking after this discussion to start using Ruby instead of Python. Blacklight looks extremely useful, and Hydra is something I am going to look more at. Plus, data structures in Python just seem drastically overcomplicated coming from a C-family background (lists vs tuples vs dicts, and don't even think about trying to sort a dict by key). And as you mentioned the process of installing modules is just awful. I have also run into quite a few frustrations with the big split between Python 2.x and 3.x where some modules that are critical to me (such as Suds, the SOAP module) are 2.x only. It looks like Ruby has all the bases covered for me needs in MARC, screen scraping, etc, and it seems to have more momentum as far as projects active in the library world. Plus, SASS/Compass is amazing. And I hate Python whitespace. Josh Welker Information Technology Librarian James C. Kirkpatrick Library University of Central Missouri Warrensburg, MO 64093 JCKL 2260 660.543.8022 -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Little, James Clarence IV Sent: Monday, July 29, 2013 3:30 PM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Python and Ruby Personally, I prefer Python. If you are wanting to do more information science-y things, Ruby doesn't have equivalent libraries for things like the Natural Language Toolkithttp://nltk.org/ or SciPyhttp://www.scipy.org/. In Ruby's defense, Python doesn't have Blacklighthttp://projectblacklight.org/, and the Python packaging system is terrible. For XML, nothing beats Java. If you want to use XSLT 2.0 in software then the JVM is your only option. The JVM is undergoing a kind of renaissance with all the cool languages that can run on it now: Clojure, jRuby, Jython, Scala. With these languages you can enjoy the scriptyness, while also being able to bring in the heavy-duty Java XML libraries if they are needed. James Little Digital Programmer Otto G. Richter Library | University of Miami On Jul 29, 2013, at 3:51 PM, Wilhelmina Randtke rand...@gmail.commailto:rand...@gmail.com wrote: Library community programming is heavy on the string processing, right? So, just use a language that's good for that. Anyway, once you learn one, it's faster to learn another. -Wilhelmina Randtke On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 11:57 AM, Peter Schlumpf pschlu...@earthlink.netmailto:pschlu...@earthlink.netwrote: Python and Ruby (and any other programming languages) are just tools. Some do some things better than others. Imagine if the library community had its own programming/scripting language, at least one that is domain relevant. What would it look like? Peter Schlumpf -Original Message- From: Joshua Welker wel...@ucmo.edumailto:wel...@ucmo.edu Sent: Jul 29, 2013 10:43 AM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDUmailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: [CODE4LIB] Python and Ruby Not intending to start a language flame war/holy war here, but in the library coding community, is there a particular reason to use Ruby over Python or vice-versa? I am personally comfortable with Python, but I have noticed that there is a big Ruby following in Code4Lib and similar communities. Am I going to be able to contribute and work better with the community if I use Ruby rather than Python? I am 100% aware that there is no objective way to answer which of the two languages is the best. I am interested in the much more narrow question of which will work better for library-related scripting projects in terms of the following factors: -existing modules that I can re-use that are related to libraries (MARC tools, XML/RDF tools, modules released by major vendors, etc) -availability of help from others in the community -interest/ability of others to re-use my code Thanks. Josh Welker Information Technology Librarian James C. Kirkpatrick Library University of Central Missouri Warrensburg, MO 64093 JCKL 2260 660.543.8022
Re: [CODE4LIB] Python and Ruby
On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 1:11 PM, Ross Singer rossfsin...@gmail.com wrote: Over the NISO standardization process required to form the exploratory committee. Thanks for answering the question better than I could have ever dreamed of answering it. //Ed
Re: [CODE4LIB] Python and Ruby
On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 4:38 PM, Joshua Welker wel...@ucmo.edu wrote: And I hate Python whitespace. Ah-ha! A more paranoid pythonista than I might suspect this whole thread was simply an exercise in Ruby shilling. --jay
Re: [CODE4LIB] Python and Ruby
Somebody needs to invent one, throw it out there and see what happens. -Original Message- From: Ed Summers e...@pobox.com Sent: Jul 29, 2013 4:06 PM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Python and Ruby On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 1:11 PM, Ross Singer rossfsin...@gmail.com wrote: Over the NISO standardization process required to form the exploratory committee. Thanks for answering the question better than I could have ever dreamed of answering it. //Ed
Re: [CODE4LIB] Python and Ruby
Ha. Actually I was hoping to feel good about just sticking with Python. But alas. Now I will get to find out all the annoying things about Ruby instead. Josh Welker Information Technology Librarian James C. Kirkpatrick Library University of Central Missouri Warrensburg, MO 64093 JCKL 2260 660.543.8022 -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Jay Luker Sent: Monday, July 29, 2013 4:11 PM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Python and Ruby On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 4:38 PM, Joshua Welker wel...@ucmo.edu wrote: And I hate Python whitespace. Ah-ha! A more paranoid pythonista than I might suspect this whole thread was simply an exercise in Ruby shilling. --jay
Re: [CODE4LIB] Python and Ruby
Muahahahahahahaha! MUAHAHAHAHAHAHA! And you walked right into it! You fools! -Ross. On Monday, July 29, 2013, Jay Luker wrote: On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 4:38 PM, Joshua Welker wel...@ucmo.edujavascript:; wrote: And I hate Python whitespace. Ah-ha! A more paranoid pythonista than I might suspect this whole thread was simply an exercise in Ruby shilling. --jay
Re: [CODE4LIB] Python and Ruby
Both Ruby and Python, have their strengths and weaknesses, and as others have mentioned, it will come down to need and existing projects you want to leverage. We use both Python and Ruby internally. Know your tools and their strengths and weaknesses. My personal interested is more and more revolved around natural language processing, and its potential in library based tools. Purging is quite strong in computational linguistics and has useful libraries for natural language processing. Andrew On 30/07/2013 1:43 AM, Joshua Welker wel...@ucmo.edu wrote: Not intending to start a language flame war/holy war here, but in the library coding community, is there a particular reason to use Ruby over Python or vice-versa? I am personally comfortable with Python, but I have noticed that there is a big Ruby following in Code4Lib and similar communities. Am I going to be able to contribute and work better with the community if I use Ruby rather than Python? I am 100% aware that there is no objective way to answer which of the two languages is the best. I am interested in the much more narrow question of which will work better for library-related scripting projects in terms of the following factors: -existing modules that I can re-use that are related to libraries (MARC tools, XML/RDF tools, modules released by major vendors, etc) -availability of help from others in the community -interest/ability of others to re-use my code Thanks. Josh Welker Information Technology Librarian James C. Kirkpatrick Library University of Central Missouri Warrensburg, MO 64093 JCKL 2260 660.543.8022
Re: [CODE4LIB] Python and Ruby
And you would think Python developers would know how to... ( •_•) ( •_•)⌐■-■ (⌐■_■) read between the (whitespace) lines? YEAH On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 2:57 PM, Ross Singer rossfsin...@gmail.com wrote: Muahahahahahahaha! MUAHAHAHAHAHAHA! And you walked right into it! You fools! -Ross. On Monday, July 29, 2013, Jay Luker wrote: On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 4:38 PM, Joshua Welker wel...@ucmo.edu javascript:; wrote: And I hate Python whitespace. Ah-ha! A more paranoid pythonista than I might suspect this whole thread was simply an exercise in Ruby shilling. --jay
Re: [CODE4LIB] Python and Ruby
White space is potentially an illusion it isn't necessarilly there, esp when the whitespace is not a character ... ;) On 30/07/2013 8:02 AM, Michael J. Giarlo leftw...@alumni.rutgers.edu wrote: And you would think Python developers would know how to... ( •_•) ( •_•)⌐■-■ (⌐■_■) read between the (whitespace) lines? YEAH On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 2:57 PM, Ross Singer rossfsin...@gmail.com wrote: Muahahahahahahaha! MUAHAHAHAHAHAHA! And you walked right into it! You fools! -Ross. On Monday, July 29, 2013, Jay Luker wrote: On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 4:38 PM, Joshua Welker wel...@ucmo.edu javascript:; wrote: And I hate Python whitespace. Ah-ha! A more paranoid pythonista than I might suspect this whole thread was simply an exercise in Ruby shilling. --jay
