Re: [CODE4LIB] Microsoft Zentity
Andy, It is a highly extensible platform, based on .NET and windows. It is also open source! We did install it and have a play around with it. But not as much as we would have liked, primarily because of skillset and resource issues here. Microsoft have come late into the repository space, and have had a really good look at the kinds of mistakes others have made. Let us know how you get on. David. On 28 April 2010 14:54, Andrew Ashton andrew_ash...@brown.edu wrote: I¹m looking for some background information on Microsoft¹s Zentity (their digital repository software). If anyone has first-hand experience working with it, or if you know of institutions that have implemented it, please contact me. Thanks, Andy Ashton Senior Research Programmer Center for Digital Scholarship, Brown University Library andrew_ash...@brown.edu -- David Kane Systems Librarian Waterford Institute of Technology Ireland http://library.wit.ie/ davidfk...@googlewave.com T: ++353.51302838 M: ++353.876693212
Re: [CODE4LIB] Microsoft Zentity
Zentity is entirely consistent with their market strategy. It would be defeatist of them to take such an attitude. Why would they write software for a non-microsoft platform? They have made some good software, which should be useful and is in a good position to leverge the functionality of other Microsoft products. For example, integrating the office suite into the academic publishing lifecycle could be very useful for academics. David. The On 28 April 2010 15:17, Ethan Gruber ewg4x...@gmail.com wrote: It seems to me that the major flaw of the software is that it isn't cross-platform, which comes as no surprise. But I feel Microsoft didn't do their market research. While the financial and business sectors are heavily reliant on Microsoft servers, American universities, and by extension, research libraries, are not. If they really wanted to make a commitment to support the academic community as they say on the Zentity website, they would have developed it for a platform that the academic community actually uses. Ethan On Wed, Apr 28, 2010 at 10:11 AM, David Kane dk...@wit.ie wrote: Andy, It is a highly extensible platform, based on .NET and windows. It is also open source! We did install it and have a play around with it. But not as much as we would have liked, primarily because of skillset and resource issues here. Microsoft have come late into the repository space, and have had a really good look at the kinds of mistakes others have made. Let us know how you get on. David. On 28 April 2010 14:54, Andrew Ashton andrew_ash...@brown.edu wrote: I¹m looking for some background information on Microsoft¹s Zentity (their digital repository software). If anyone has first-hand experience working with it, or if you know of institutions that have implemented it, please contact me. Thanks, Andy Ashton Senior Research Programmer Center for Digital Scholarship, Brown University Library andrew_ash...@brown.edu -- David Kane Systems Librarian Waterford Institute of Technology Ireland http://library.wit.ie/ davidfk...@googlewave.com T: ++353.51302838 M: ++353.876693212 -- David Kane Systems Librarian Waterford Institute of Technology Ireland http://library.wit.ie/ davidfk...@googlewave.com T: ++353.51302838 M: ++353.876693212
Re: [CODE4LIB] Microsoft Zentity
On Apr 28, 2010, at 10:25 AM, David Kane wrote: Why would they write software for a non-microsoft platform? I'll just point out that other OS vendors (Apple, Sun, Ubuntu, etc.) write software for other platforms. -Esme -- Esme Cowles escow...@ucsd.edu Men feared witches and burnt women. -- Louis Brandeis, Whitney v. California, concurring
Re: [CODE4LIB] Microsoft Zentity
So what? On 28 April 2010 15:37, Cowles, Esme escow...@ucsd.edu wrote: On Apr 28, 2010, at 10:25 AM, David Kane wrote: Why would they write software for a non-microsoft platform? I'll just point out that other OS vendors (Apple, Sun, Ubuntu, etc.) write software for other platforms. -Esme -- Esme Cowles escow...@ucsd.edu Men feared witches and burnt women. -- Louis Brandeis, Whitney v. California, concurring -- David Kane Systems Librarian Waterford Institute of Technology Ireland http://library.wit.ie/ davidfk...@googlewave.com T: ++353.51302838 M: ++353.876693212
Re: [CODE4LIB] Microsoft Zentity
David is right that Microsoft would never develop for multiple platforms because that would undermine their business model, which is of course, to duplicate efforts and reject international standards (or make Microsoft the standard for everything). Fortunately, Microsoft is losing its grip on that strategy. Back to the topic of Zentity, perhaps it would run in Mono, but then you are caught in a situation where you are reliant on Novell also. However, I think tools should be chosen largely to fit the skillsets of staff. If an institution has a staffing of .NET developers, it makes sense. I can't think of a single person with ASP, .NET experience here, so Zentity *should* never be considered an option at my institution. Ethan On Wed, Apr 28, 2010 at 10:48 AM, David Kane dk...@wit.ie wrote: So what? On 28 April 2010 15:37, Cowles, Esme escow...@ucsd.edu wrote: On Apr 28, 2010, at 10:25 AM, David Kane wrote: Why would they write software for a non-microsoft platform? I'll just point out that other OS vendors (Apple, Sun, Ubuntu, etc.) write software for other platforms. -Esme -- Esme Cowles escow...@ucsd.edu Men feared witches and burnt women. -- Louis Brandeis, Whitney v. California, concurring -- David Kane Systems Librarian Waterford Institute of Technology Ireland http://library.wit.ie/ davidfk...@googlewave.com T: ++353.51302838 M: ++353.876693212
Re: [CODE4LIB] Microsoft Zentity
On Wed, Apr 28, 2010 at 10:21 AM, Houghton,Andrew hough...@oclc.org wrote: If its open source, I assume that it could be adapted to run under Mono and then you could run it on Linux, Macs, etc. It may even run under Mono, don't know, haven't played with it. Well, it requires SQLServer, so I think this is probably going to be much more difficult than it's worth. -Ross.
Re: [CODE4LIB] Microsoft Zentity
Well... it kind of requires SQL Server. The project page says that it uses the Entity Framework and Link, and that means you can use MySQL or Oracle since there is an ADO.NET adapter for them. Microsoft has a plugable data layer that anyone can write an adapter for. Andy. -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:code4...@listserv.nd.edu] On Behalf Of Ross Singer Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2010 11:23 AM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Microsoft Zentity On Wed, Apr 28, 2010 at 10:21 AM, Houghton,Andrew hough...@oclc.org wrote: If its open source, I assume that it could be adapted to run under Mono and then you could run it on Linux, Macs, etc. It may even run under Mono, don't know, haven't played with it. Well, it requires SQLServer, so I think this is probably going to be much more difficult than it's worth. -Ross.
Re: [CODE4LIB] Microsoft Zentity
On Wed, Apr 28, 2010 at 10:17 AM, Ethan Gruber ewg4x...@gmail.com wrote: It seems to me that the major flaw of the software is that it isn't cross-platform, which comes as no surprise. But I feel Microsoft didn't do their market research. While the financial and business sectors are heavily reliant on Microsoft servers, American universities, and by extension, research libraries, are not. If they really wanted to make a commitment to support the academic community as they say on the Zentity website, they would have developed it for a platform that the academic community actually uses. This seems like sort of a snotty answer, honestly, and I find three flaws with it: 1) Research and intellectual output is not exclusive to large, research university which means repositories should not be exclusive to ARL libraries 2) There are lots of academic Microsoft shops, esp. at the campus IT (or departmental IT) level. It's not beyond reason to think that a smaller university would prefer the repository be hosted by central IT (or that the chemistry department or engineering school in a larger university host their own repository). 3) E-Prints, for example, seems to be making an effort to commodotize and democratize the repository space a bit by making it as simple as possible to run an IR. MS is making this even simpler for places that already have Windows servers (which is a lot). There are plenty of reasons to criticize Microsoft, but I just don't see how Zentity is one of them. -Ross.
Re: [CODE4LIB] Microsoft Zentity
Ross Singer wrote: On Wed, Apr 28, 2010 at 10:17 AM, Ethan Gruber ewg4x...@gmail.com wrote: It seems to me that the major flaw of the software is that it isn't cross-platform, which comes as no surprise. But I feel Microsoft didn't do their market research. While the financial and business sectors are heavily reliant on Microsoft servers, American universities, and by extension, research libraries, are not. Is this really true? My current University (including the Library) use a number of Windows Servers. Would I prefer a different platform for our Windows servers? Yes. However some are running applications that don't run on other platforms and the others were implemented before I got here and they are working so there is no reason to change them at this time. While I know many libraries/universities use Novel, Solaris, Linux, etc. I have serious doubts that a majority of American Universities don't use Microsoft servers to some degree. As an example, I often see people on the Voyager ILS listserv wanting to run there ILS on Windows because that is what is supported by campus IT. If they really wanted to make a commitment to support the academic community as they say on the Zentity website, they would have developed it for a platform that the academic community actually uses. This seems like sort of a snotty answer, honestly, and I find three flaws with it: 1) Research and intellectual output is not exclusive to large, research university which means repositories should not be exclusive to ARL libraries 2) There are lots of academic Microsoft shops, esp. at the campus IT (or departmental IT) level. It's not beyond reason to think that a smaller university would prefer the repository be hosted by central IT (or that the chemistry department or engineering school in a larger university host their own repository). 3) E-Prints, for example, seems to be making an effort to commodotize and democratize the repository space a bit by making it as simple as possible to run an IR. MS is making this even simpler for places that already have Windows servers (which is a lot). Should we criticize Koha because (I believe) it doesn't have an up-to-date Windows version? How about Evergreen? No one is forcing you to use Zentity if you don't want to use Windows. If it doesn't fit in your environment, don't use it, but that isn't a reason to criticize it. I bet that more places can handle a Windows server rather then those that can handle a Linux server. If only because a competent Linux Admin can almost always manage a Windows server (maybe not MS applications like Exchange, etc.) with little or no training, but this does not necessarily work the other way around. Sure, the Linux Admin might moan and groan about this (I know from experience), but they can do it. There are plenty of reasons to criticize Microsoft, but I just don't see how Zentity is one of them. Agreed. Edward -Ross.
Re: [CODE4LIB] Microsoft Zentity
Microsoft certainly has developed for other platforms in the past, but they've greatly reduced that activity. Keep in mind that one of the key aspects of Zentity is its integration with Microsoft desktop products. If the goal is to get faculty to deposit their own content -- simplifying their workflows by allowing them to deposit files from the applications they use to produce some of their content -- then Microsoft has done its market research. Watching their live demo in May 2009 at Open Repositories was eye-opening in that regard. Their add-ons for Office support linking of Creative Commons licenses, ontology management, deposit to Zentity (and any other repo that supports SWORD) should be of interest to many. Sometimes I think we all forget that the first goal is to get faculty content INTO IRs. We're going to be managing empty IRs if there aren't easy deposit tools. As to American universities not running Microsoft servers, I have personally worked at major research universities (and research libraries) that do run them alongside their unix environment, usually because there is some aspect of the business operations that requires it. And many smaller colleges and cultural heritage organizations absolutely do run Microsoft. And every time I'm on a search panel for a programmer I see lots of applicants with .NET and ASP skills. Leslie -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:code4...@listserv.nd.edu] On Behalf Of Ethan Gruber Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2010 11:03 AM To: Johnston, Leslie; Code for Libraries Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Microsoft Zentity David is right that Microsoft would never develop for multiple platforms because that would undermine their business model, which is of course, to duplicate efforts and reject international standards (or make Microsoft the standard for everything). Fortunately, Microsoft is losing its grip on that strategy. Back to the topic of Zentity, perhaps it would run in Mono, but then you are caught in a situation where you are reliant on Novell also. However, I think tools should be chosen largely to fit the skillsets of staff. If an institution has a staffing of .NET developers, it makes sense. I can't think of a single person with ASP, .NET experience here, so Zentity *should* never be considered an option at my institution. Ethan On Wed, Apr 28, 2010 at 10:48 AM, David Kane dk...@wit.ie wrote: So what? On 28 April 2010 15:37, Cowles, Esme escow...@ucsd.edu wrote: On Apr 28, 2010, at 10:25 AM, David Kane wrote: Why would they write software for a non-microsoft platform? I'll just point out that other OS vendors (Apple, Sun, Ubuntu, etc.) write software for other platforms. -Esme -- Esme Cowles escow...@ucsd.edu Men feared witches and burnt women. -- Louis Brandeis, Whitney v. California, concurring -- David Kane Systems Librarian Waterford Institute of Technology Ireland http://library.wit.ie/ davidfk...@googlewave.com T: ++353.51302838 M: ++353.876693212
Re: [CODE4LIB] Microsoft Zentity
At Wed, 28 Apr 2010 15:11:39 +0100, David Kane wrote: Andy, It is a highly extensible platform, based on .NET and windows. It is also open source! […] Here is the license: http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/downloads/48e60ac1-a95a-4163-a23d-28a914007743/Research-Output%20Repository%20Platform%20EULA%20%282008-06-06%29.txt This is not an open source license. best, Erik Hetzner ;; Erik Hetzner, California Digital Library ;; gnupg key id: 1024D/01DB07E3 pgpVPPJvvYS4q.pgp Description: PGP signature
