RE: [VOTE] Promote Email to Commons Proper
cool, thanks Emmanuel. Eric will this be the last step for leaving sandbox? Regards, Matthias -Original Message- From: Emmanuel Venisse [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, November 21, 2004 3:48 PM To: Jakarta Commons Developers List; Henri Yandell Subject: Re: [VOTE] Promote Email to Commons Proper I prepared a bundle for dumbster on codehaus. It will be synchronize with ibiblio in few hours. Emmanuel - Original Message - From: Henri Yandell [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Jakarta Commons Developers List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, November 19, 2004 5:26 AM Subject: Re: [VOTE] Promote Email to Commons Proper Impressively, Jason has now updated the SF site, the Dumbster site and released a new version under the ASL 2.0. All that remains is to get it into Maven, and I figure that one of the [email] guys can happily do that (there are instructions on the Maven site for it). So nothing looks likely to slow down a release, and many kudos to Jason Kitchen for being so responsive to our legal particulars. Hen On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 19:57:09 +, robert burrell donkin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 18 Nov 2004, at 11:39, Eric Pugh wrote: Alright.. This thread has somewhat gotton away from me. Since Dumbster is now licensed as ASL (despite the website being out of date), can we move to a conclusion on this thread? If we consider that [email] hasn't materially changed, and therefore a new vote isn't required, then I currently tally: +1 Eric Pugh +1 Matthias Wessendorf +1 Yoav Shapira Robert, you raised the original lgpl issue which I hope is now sorted out. While you didn't specifically put a -1 down, I think it was implied. Would you be willing to change that to something else? i'm now +1 to promotion (and like henri -1 to release until all the loose ends concerning the dumbster license) i would like to see a note added to the web site recommending the latest (ASF licensed) dumbster. i'd also like to see a new version of dumbster (with an ASL license) uploaded to the maven java repository and the project.xml updated to reflect that. - robert - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [VOTE] Promote Email to Commons Proper
I prepared a bundle for dumbster on codehaus. It will be synchronize with ibiblio in few hours. Emmanuel - Original Message - From: Henri Yandell [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Jakarta Commons Developers List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, November 19, 2004 5:26 AM Subject: Re: [VOTE] Promote Email to Commons Proper Impressively, Jason has now updated the SF site, the Dumbster site and released a new version under the ASL 2.0. All that remains is to get it into Maven, and I figure that one of the [email] guys can happily do that (there are instructions on the Maven site for it). So nothing looks likely to slow down a release, and many kudos to Jason Kitchen for being so responsive to our legal particulars. Hen On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 19:57:09 +, robert burrell donkin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 18 Nov 2004, at 11:39, Eric Pugh wrote: Alright.. This thread has somewhat gotton away from me. Since Dumbster is now licensed as ASL (despite the website being out of date), can we move to a conclusion on this thread? If we consider that [email] hasn't materially changed, and therefore a new vote isn't required, then I currently tally: +1 Eric Pugh +1 Matthias Wessendorf +1 Yoav Shapira Robert, you raised the original lgpl issue which I hope is now sorted out. While you didn't specifically put a -1 down, I think it was implied. Would you be willing to change that to something else? i'm now +1 to promotion (and like henri -1 to release until all the loose ends concerning the dumbster license) i would like to see a note added to the web site recommending the latest (ASF licensed) dumbster. i'd also like to see a new version of dumbster (with an ASL license) uploaded to the maven java repository and the project.xml updated to reflect that. - robert - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [VOTE] Promote Email to Commons Proper
Alright.. This thread has somewhat gotton away from me. Since Dumbster is now licensed as ASL (despite the website being out of date), can we move to a conclusion on this thread? If we consider that [email] hasn't materially changed, and therefore a new vote isn't required, then I currently tally: +1 Eric Pugh +1 Matthias Wessendorf +1 Yoav Shapira Robert, you raised the original lgpl issue which I hope is now sorted out. While you didn't specifically put a -1 down, I think it was implied. Would you be willing to change that to something else? Eric -Original Message- From: Serge Knystautas [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 2004 3:05 PM To: Jakarta Commons Developers List Subject: Re: [VOTE] Promote Email to Commons Proper It'd be pretty easy to have James use the Null mailet as the first (and only step) in its processing logic. This would cause James to spool the incoming messages to disk, and then always discard them. That would be a much heavier weight solution though. We use something slightly like this, at least informally. There's a tool called Postal (http://www.coker.com.au/postal/) that does SMTP and POP benchmarking, and that has an SMTP sink. -- Serge Knystautas Lokitech software . strategy . design http://www.lokitech.com p. 301.656.5501 e. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Corey Scott wrote: Serge, [Extract from the website http://quintanasoft.com/dumbster/] The Dumbster is a very simple fake SMTP server designed for unit and system testing applications that send email messages. It responds to all standard SMTP commands but does not deliver messages to the user. The messages are stored within the Dumbster for later extraction and verification. The Dumbster slots itself very easily into your testing strategy. As long as your application talks to an email server using SMTP then the Dumbster can be used to test the application with no code changes. [End extract] We have been using it to allow us to test send mails and do some rudimentary verification of the sent mails in our jUnit tests. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [VOTE] Promote Email to Commons Proper
+1 to promotion to Commons proper. -1 to release until the dumbster site and release we are dependent on is on a license we can use. The LGPL issue isn't so much a problem for promotion as for just being in the CVS repository, but I think we're satisfactorily resolving it. So we need to see ASL mentioned on the sf.net page, on the project's page, and included in the download. Currently these are GPL, LGPL, LGPL respectively. Hen On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 11:39:42 -, Eric Pugh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Alright.. This thread has somewhat gotton away from me. Since Dumbster is now licensed as ASL (despite the website being out of date), can we move to a conclusion on this thread? If we consider that [email] hasn't materially changed, and therefore a new vote isn't required, then I currently tally: +1 Eric Pugh +1 Matthias Wessendorf +1 Yoav Shapira Robert, you raised the original lgpl issue which I hope is now sorted out. While you didn't specifically put a -1 down, I think it was implied. Would you be willing to change that to something else? Eric -Original Message- From: Serge Knystautas [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 2004 3:05 PM To: Jakarta Commons Developers List Subject: Re: [VOTE] Promote Email to Commons Proper It'd be pretty easy to have James use the Null mailet as the first (and only step) in its processing logic. This would cause James to spool the incoming messages to disk, and then always discard them. That would be a much heavier weight solution though. We use something slightly like this, at least informally. There's a tool called Postal (http://www.coker.com.au/postal/) that does SMTP and POP benchmarking, and that has an SMTP sink. -- Serge Knystautas Lokitech software . strategy . design http://www.lokitech.com p. 301.656.5501 e. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Corey Scott wrote: Serge, [Extract from the website http://quintanasoft.com/dumbster/] The Dumbster is a very simple fake SMTP server designed for unit and system testing applications that send email messages. It responds to all standard SMTP commands but does not deliver messages to the user. The messages are stored within the Dumbster for later extraction and verification. The Dumbster slots itself very easily into your testing strategy. As long as your application talks to an email server using SMTP then the Dumbster can be used to test the application with no code changes. [End extract] We have been using it to allow us to test send mails and do some rudimentary verification of the sent mails in our jUnit tests. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [VOTE] Promote Email to Commons Proper
Since I'm not a commons committer, I don't know how much weight my vote holds, but I vote +1 also. I have committed a few patches to commons-email while it's been in the sandbox, and I plan to stay involved. Joe At 11:39 AM + 11/18/04, Eric Pugh wrote: Alright.. This thread has somewhat gotton away from me. Since Dumbster is now licensed as ASL (despite the website being out of date), can we move to a conclusion on this thread? If we consider that [email] hasn't materially changed, and therefore a new vote isn't required, then I currently tally: +1 Eric Pugh +1 Matthias Wessendorf +1 Yoav Shapira Robert, you raised the original lgpl issue which I hope is now sorted out. While you didn't specifically put a -1 down, I think it was implied. Would you be willing to change that to something else? -- Joe Germuska [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://blog.germuska.com Narrow minds are weapons made for mass destruction -The Ex - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [VOTE] Promote Email to Commons Proper
Henri, +1 to promotion to Commons proper. -1 to release until the dumbster site and release we are dependent on is on a license we can use. release is still ASL (see cvs): http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/dumbster/dumbster/src/com/dumbster /smtp/SimpleSmtpServer.java?rev=1.3view=auto Regards, Matthias - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [VOTE] Promote Email to Commons Proper
Matthias I think you're being far to european about this :o) I think at very least the dumbster author should have an apache license etched on his forehead and perhaps hand over several family members as guarantee before one could safely assume that one could take it on good will that the author's intention is to release his software with a ASF licence. Sorry digression, couldn't resist it. On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 15:57:44 +0100, Matthias Wessendorf [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Henri, +1 to promotion to Commons proper. -1 to release until the dumbster site and release we are dependent on is on a license we can use. release is still ASL (see cvs): http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/dumbster/dumbster/src/com/dumbster /smtp/SimpleSmtpServer.java?rev=1.3view=auto Regards, Matthias - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [VOTE] Promote Email to Commons Proper
I meant an actual released jar. The licence changed on the 16th, but the last release was the 8th. Unless we depend on HEAD; which is worthy of a -1 in itself :) Hen On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 15:57:44 +0100, Matthias Wessendorf [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Henri, +1 to promotion to Commons proper. -1 to release until the dumbster site and release we are dependent on is on a license we can use. release is still ASL (see cvs): http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/dumbster/dumbster/src/com/dumbster /smtp/SimpleSmtpServer.java?rev=1.3view=auto Regards, Matthias - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [VOTE] Promote Email to Commons Proper
So the vote has passed right? *in a hurry to celebrate and move on to making email better* :-) -Corey - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [VOTE] Promote Email to Commons Proper
Hi, No, the vote is not concluded yet. We have to wait for Dumbster to have ASL all over: the web page, and in an actual release (not just in CVS). Until then, there are -1's on this vote which prevent it from passing. Yoav Shapira http://www.yoavshapira.com -Original Message- From: Corey Scott [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2004 12:03 PM To: Jakarta Commons Developers List Subject: Re: [VOTE] Promote Email to Commons Proper So the vote has passed right? *in a hurry to celebrate and move on to making email better* :-) -Corey - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] This e-mail, including any attachments, is a confidential business communication, and may contain information that is confidential, proprietary and/or privileged. This e-mail is intended only for the individual(s) to whom it is addressed, and may not be saved, copied, printed, disclosed or used by anyone else. If you are not the(an) intended recipient, please immediately delete this e-mail from your computer system and notify the sender. Thank you. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [VOTE] Promote Email to Commons Proper
At 12:17 PM -0500 11/18/04, Shapira, Yoav wrote: Hi, No, the vote is not concluded yet. We have to wait for Dumbster to have ASL all over: the web page, and in an actual release (not just in CVS). Until then, there are -1's on this vote which prevent it from passing. Henri's -1 was to a full release; he was +1 on the move to commons proper. http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.jakarta.commons.devel/57153 Executing that move should take long enough for Dumbster to update web pages, although who knows how quickly they will move on releasing a JAR with the right license. If that is something the Dumbster folks aren't willing to move quickly on, perhaps they can indicate in writing that the license applies to a version which has already been released. Joe -- Joe Germuska [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://blog.germuska.com Narrow minds are weapons made for mass destruction -The Ex - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [VOTE] Promote Email to Commons Proper
I'll send Jason an email, see what his plans are. Hen On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 11:47:29 -0600, Joe Germuska [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 12:17 PM -0500 11/18/04, Shapira, Yoav wrote: Hi, No, the vote is not concluded yet. We have to wait for Dumbster to have ASL all over: the web page, and in an actual release (not just in CVS). Until then, there are -1's on this vote which prevent it from passing. Henri's -1 was to a full release; he was +1 on the move to commons proper. http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.jakarta.commons.devel/57153 Executing that move should take long enough for Dumbster to update web pages, although who knows how quickly they will move on releasing a JAR with the right license. If that is something the Dumbster folks aren't willing to move quickly on, perhaps they can indicate in writing that the license applies to a version which has already been released. Joe -- Joe Germuska [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://blog.germuska.com Narrow minds are weapons made for mass destruction -The Ex - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [VOTE] Promote Email to Commons Proper
On 18 Nov 2004, at 11:39, Eric Pugh wrote: Alright.. This thread has somewhat gotton away from me. Since Dumbster is now licensed as ASL (despite the website being out of date), can we move to a conclusion on this thread? If we consider that [email] hasn't materially changed, and therefore a new vote isn't required, then I currently tally: +1 Eric Pugh +1 Matthias Wessendorf +1 Yoav Shapira Robert, you raised the original lgpl issue which I hope is now sorted out. While you didn't specifically put a -1 down, I think it was implied. Would you be willing to change that to something else? i'm now +1 to promotion (and like henri -1 to release until all the loose ends concerning the dumbster license) i would like to see a note added to the web site recommending the latest (ASF licensed) dumbster. i'd also like to see a new version of dumbster (with an ASL license) uploaded to the maven java repository and the project.xml updated to reflect that. - robert - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [VOTE] Promote Email to Commons Proper
Impressively, Jason has now updated the SF site, the Dumbster site and released a new version under the ASL 2.0. All that remains is to get it into Maven, and I figure that one of the [email] guys can happily do that (there are instructions on the Maven site for it). So nothing looks likely to slow down a release, and many kudos to Jason Kitchen for being so responsive to our legal particulars. Hen On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 19:57:09 +, robert burrell donkin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 18 Nov 2004, at 11:39, Eric Pugh wrote: Alright.. This thread has somewhat gotton away from me. Since Dumbster is now licensed as ASL (despite the website being out of date), can we move to a conclusion on this thread? If we consider that [email] hasn't materially changed, and therefore a new vote isn't required, then I currently tally: +1 Eric Pugh +1 Matthias Wessendorf +1 Yoav Shapira Robert, you raised the original lgpl issue which I hope is now sorted out. While you didn't specifically put a -1 down, I think it was implied. Would you be willing to change that to something else? i'm now +1 to promotion (and like henri -1 to release until all the loose ends concerning the dumbster license) i would like to see a note added to the web site recommending the latest (ASF licensed) dumbster. i'd also like to see a new version of dumbster (with an ASL license) uploaded to the maven java repository and the project.xml updated to reflect that. - robert - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [VOTE] Promote Email to Commons Proper
Corey, yes you are right, main motivation is getting [email] out of sandbox :-) your #1 should be the easiest way. Btw. do you know if the JAMES-folks have a facility like dumbster? Regards, Matthias -Original Message- From: Corey Scott [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 2004 8:14 AM To: Jakarta Commons Developers List Subject: Re: [VOTE] Promote Email to Commons Proper So back to the original problem. Dumbster is currently used by the tests. The way I see it this leaves us with a few options: 1) Remove it (and wait for the ok or change of license 2) Replace it (I havent seen an alternative, but I am willing to look) 3) Do it ourselves. To be honest, my main motivation is just to get Email promoted and moving. That said, after using dumbster for a while I have found it to be a good idea, although I find the implementation to be quite limited. As it also seems to be a one man show, the likelihood of it progressing to far, is low. For this reason, I would like to test the water a suggest, what does everything think about doing a similar component and putting it the sandbox? For my mind, this would help us immensely, we could shape the component so that is was more agreeable to what we are trying to test and ensure that a user was able to retrieve a decent amount of info from the 'sent' mails, as this is a lacking at the moment. I am willing to work on this, but I will need someone to help me champion it and CVS committer. -Corey - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [VOTE] Promote Email to Commons Proper
ah, now I read the rest, well doing such a component is a nice thing. since unit-tests for [email] are a plus. well I don't know how to promote such a component to sandbox, perhaps eric knows more? I guess must post some code, that you will push to Jakarta Commons Sandbox. After that, there will be a vote for adding it to Sandbox? Just my personal thoughts. Since I haven't started an own project in ASF/Jakarta. With MyFaces (JSF-Implementation) it was different, we had code in SF.net. Asked the incubator-folks. After that we droped LGPL and used Apache2.0 Then the way was ready to start in ASF. Incubator-folks voted us to be on board. -Matthias -Original Message- From: Corey Scott [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 2004 8:14 AM To: Jakarta Commons Developers List Subject: Re: [VOTE] Promote Email to Commons Proper So back to the original problem. Dumbster is currently used by the tests. The way I see it this leaves us with a few options: 1) Remove it (and wait for the ok or change of license 2) Replace it (I havent seen an alternative, but I am willing to look) 3) Do it ourselves. To be honest, my main motivation is just to get Email promoted and moving. That said, after using dumbster for a while I have found it to be a good idea, although I find the implementation to be quite limited. As it also seems to be a one man show, the likelihood of it progressing to far, is low. For this reason, I would like to test the water a suggest, what does everything think about doing a similar component and putting it the sandbox? For my mind, this would help us immensely, we could shape the component so that is was more agreeable to what we are trying to test and ensure that a user was able to retrieve a decent amount of info from the 'sent' mails, as this is a lacking at the moment. I am willing to work on this, but I will need someone to help me champion it and CVS committer. -Corey - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [VOTE] Promote Email to Commons Proper
I have taken a quick look at Jame, maybe someone might correct me, but I cant see anything similar to this. I will be the first to admit that I am not a domain expert in this particular area, but I am definately interested and can see the use for a compact 'fake' mail server, with decent error and content checking support. I think this is why we got so excited over dumbster in the first place :-) If people are interested, then we can give it shot and see where it leads us too. -Corey - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [VOTE] Promote Email to Commons Proper
Matthias Wessendorf wrote: your #1 should be the easiest way. Btw. do you know if the JAMES-folks have a facility like dumbster? Sorry, what is dumbster? -- Serge Knystautas Lokitech software . strategy . design http://www.lokitech.com p. 301.656.5501 e. [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [VOTE] Promote Email to Commons Proper
Serge, [Extract from the website http://quintanasoft.com/dumbster/] The Dumbster is a very simple fake SMTP server designed for unit and system testing applications that send email messages. It responds to all standard SMTP commands but does not deliver messages to the user. The messages are stored within the Dumbster for later extraction and verification. The Dumbster slots itself very easily into your testing strategy. As long as your application talks to an email server using SMTP then the Dumbster can be used to test the application with no code changes. [End extract] We have been using it to allow us to test send mails and do some rudimentary verification of the sent mails in our jUnit tests. Regards, Corey On Tue, 16 Nov 2004 03:53:48 -0500, Serge Knystautas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Matthias Wessendorf wrote: your #1 should be the easiest way. Btw. do you know if the JAMES-folks have a facility like dumbster? Sorry, what is dumbster? -- Serge Knystautas Lokitech software . strategy . design http://www.lokitech.com p. 301.656.5501 e. [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [VOTE] Promote Email to Commons Proper
Sounds like he's gonna change it anyway.. I mailed him the thread with henri's explaination and they've had a dialogue sicnce then. He said I don't have a problem changing the license. I will take a closer look at the text tomorrow and drop in the appropriate license from the choice you gave me before the end of this week. So assuming dumbsters license is on the mend. I guess its you folks back to voting.. On Tue, 16 Nov 2004 16:59:09 +0800, Corey Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Serge, [Extract from the website http://quintanasoft.com/dumbster/] The Dumbster is a very simple fake SMTP server designed for unit and system testing applications that send email messages. It responds to all standard SMTP commands but does not deliver messages to the user. The messages are stored within the Dumbster for later extraction and verification. The Dumbster slots itself very easily into your testing strategy. As long as your application talks to an email server using SMTP then the Dumbster can be used to test the application with no code changes. [End extract] We have been using it to allow us to test send mails and do some rudimentary verification of the sent mails in our jUnit tests. Regards, Corey On Tue, 16 Nov 2004 03:53:48 -0500, Serge Knystautas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Matthias Wessendorf wrote: your #1 should be the easiest way. Btw. do you know if the JAMES-folks have a facility like dumbster? Sorry, what is dumbster? -- Serge Knystautas Lokitech software . strategy . design http://www.lokitech.com p. 301.656.5501 e. [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [VOTE] Promote Email to Commons Proper
Serge, http://quintanasoft.com/dumbster/ faking SMTP ;-) Regards, Matthias -Original Message- From: Serge Knystautas [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 2004 9:54 AM To: Jakarta Commons Developers List Subject: Re: [VOTE] Promote Email to Commons Proper Matthias Wessendorf wrote: your #1 should be the easiest way. Btw. do you know if the JAMES-folks have a facility like dumbster? Sorry, what is dumbster? -- Serge Knystautas Lokitech software . strategy . design http://www.lokitech.com p. 301.656.5501 e. [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [VOTE] Promote Email to Commons Proper
yeah Mark, nice deal! I also just surfed to sf.net and figured out email-address of jasionkitchen ;-) so back to vote! ;-) -Matthias - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [VOTE] Promote Email to Commons Proper
I had a peek on SF, and it looks like the developer has changed the license now: http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/dumbster/dumbster/license.txt?rev=1.2view=auto Cheers, Rory Matthias Wessendorf wrote: yeah Mark, nice deal! I also just surfed to sf.net and figured out email-address of jasionkitchen ;-) so back to vote! ;-) -Matthias - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [VOTE] Promote Email to Commons Proper
Rory, well the project pages tell you GPL... http://sourceforge.net/projects/dumbster/ cheers! -Original Message- From: Rory Winston [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 2004 2:02 PM To: Jakarta Commons Developers List Subject: Re: [VOTE] Promote Email to Commons Proper I had a peek on SF, and it looks like the developer has changed the license now: http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/dumbster/dumbster/license.txt?rev= 1.2view=auto Cheers, Rory Matthias Wessendorf wrote: yeah Mark, nice deal! I also just surfed to sf.net and figured out email-address of jasionkitchen ;-) so back to vote! ;-) -Matthias - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [VOTE] Promote Email to Commons Proper
Hi, Give him a couple of days to update his license and web page before we start the vote again ;) But it's sure nice to have clout when you ask people to change their license ;) Yoav Shapira http://www.yoavshapira.com -Original Message- From: Matthias Wessendorf [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 2004 4:08 AM To: 'Jakarta Commons Developers List'; 'Mark Lowe' Subject: RE: [VOTE] Promote Email to Commons Proper yeah Mark, nice deal! I also just surfed to sf.net and figured out email-address of jasionkitchen ;-) so back to vote! ;-) -Matthias - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] This e-mail, including any attachments, is a confidential business communication, and may contain information that is confidential, proprietary and/or privileged. This e-mail is intended only for the individual(s) to whom it is addressed, and may not be saved, copied, printed, disclosed or used by anyone else. If you are not the(an) intended recipient, please immediately delete this e-mail from your computer system and notify the sender. Thank you. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [VOTE] Promote Email to Commons Proper
It'd be pretty easy to have James use the Null mailet as the first (and only step) in its processing logic. This would cause James to spool the incoming messages to disk, and then always discard them. That would be a much heavier weight solution though. We use something slightly like this, at least informally. There's a tool called Postal (http://www.coker.com.au/postal/) that does SMTP and POP benchmarking, and that has an SMTP sink. -- Serge Knystautas Lokitech software . strategy . design http://www.lokitech.com p. 301.656.5501 e. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Corey Scott wrote: Serge, [Extract from the website http://quintanasoft.com/dumbster/] The Dumbster is a very simple fake SMTP server designed for unit and system testing applications that send email messages. It responds to all standard SMTP commands but does not deliver messages to the user. The messages are stored within the Dumbster for later extraction and verification. The Dumbster slots itself very easily into your testing strategy. As long as your application talks to an email server using SMTP then the Dumbster can be used to test the application with no code changes. [End extract] We have been using it to allow us to test send mails and do some rudimentary verification of the sent mails in our jUnit tests. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [VOTE] Promote Email to Commons Proper
+1 Email is indeed a nice *component*, that simplifies the JavaMail-Api. -Matthias -Original Message- From: Eric Pugh [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, November 15, 2004 12:10 PM To: Commons-Dev Subject: [VOTE] Promote Email to Commons Proper Email exhibits all of the qualities of a component that should be in Commons proper: - It's small and focused. - It's API is well defined - It has good unit test coverage. It has also been tested in real world email applications (Turbine 2.3, 2.4, 3.0, Scarab). - It has automated nightly builds, website, and Maven all working - It has incubated in the sandbox for long enough to become stable (97% Jcoverage!) Email is a mature component that should move to Commons proper so it can be released to the public. Here's my +1. The website has additional information: http://jakarta.apache.org/commons/sandbox/email/index.html Here's the component proposal for reference: (1) INTRODUCTION The Email Component contains a set of Java classes providing a thin convenience layer over JavaMail. (2) DEPENDENCIES The Email component is dependent upon the following external components for development and use: * Java Development Kit (Version 1.2 or later) * JavaMail . (Version 1.2 or later) * JavaBeans Activation Framework (Version 1.0.1 or later) - dependency of JavaMail. * JUnit Testing Framework (Version 3.7 or later) - for unit tests only, not required for deployment * Dumbster Fake SMTP (Version 1.0.3 or later) - for unit tests only, not required for deployment (3) Required Jakarta-Commons Resources CVS Repository - New directory email in the jakarta-commons CVS repository. Mailing List - Discussions will take place on the general commons-dev mailing list. To help list subscribers identify messages of interest, it is suggested that the message subject of messages about this component be prefixed with [email]. Bugzilla - New component Email under the Commons product category, with appropriate version identifiers as needed. (4) Initial Committers The initial committers on the DBUtils component shall be: * Eric Pugh (Commons Committer) * Joe Germuska (Commons Sandbox Committer) Current active contributors include: * Corey Scott * Mark Lowe - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [VOTE] Promote Email to Commons Proper
Hi, - It has good unit test coverage. It has also been tested in real world email applications (Turbine 2.3, 2.4, 3.0, Scarab). Is it relied upon by these packages, out of curiosity? Or was it tested and not used subsequently? +1 from me. Good proposal. Yoav This e-mail, including any attachments, is a confidential business communication, and may contain information that is confidential, proprietary and/or privileged. This e-mail is intended only for the individual(s) to whom it is addressed, and may not be saved, copied, printed, disclosed or used by anyone else. If you are not the(an) intended recipient, please immediately delete this e-mail from your computer system and notify the sender. Thank you. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [VOTE] Promote Email to Commons Proper
The code originally came from Turbine, back in the Turbine 2.2 time frame. It then pretty much sat in the sandbox. Turbine 3 picked it up, and therefore Scarab, built on Turbine 3, uses it. Because we didn't want to add yet another unreleased component to Turbine 2.x, we haven't removed the original code. The plan is to move to commons-email once a 1.0 is released. ERic -Original Message- From: Shapira, Yoav [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, November 15, 2004 4:51 PM To: Jakarta Commons Developers List Subject: RE: [VOTE] Promote Email to Commons Proper Hi, - It has good unit test coverage. It has also been tested in real world email applications (Turbine 2.3, 2.4, 3.0, Scarab). Is it relied upon by these packages, out of curiosity? Or was it tested and not used subsequently? +1 from me. Good proposal. Yoav This e-mail, including any attachments, is a confidential business communication, and may contain information that is confidential, proprietary and/or privileged. This e-mail is intended only for the individual(s) to whom it is addressed, and may not be saved, copied, printed, disclosed or used by anyone else. If you are not the(an) intended recipient, please immediately delete this e-mail from your computer system and notify the sender. Thank you. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [VOTE] Promote Email to Commons Proper
On 15 Nov 2004, at 11:10, Eric Pugh wrote: snip (2) DEPENDENCIES The Email component is dependent upon the following external components for development and use: snip * Dumbster Fake SMTP (Version 1.0.3 or later) - for unit tests only, not required for deployment i hate to do this to what is a good proposal but... isn't dumbster LGPL'd...? BaseEmailTestCase imports LGPL'd code and IIRC that's still problematic. (FSF refuse to clarify the situation with regard to java.) - robert - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [VOTE] Promote Email to Commons Proper
i hate to do this to what is a good proposal but... isn't dumbster LGPL'd...? No. It's GPL. Which only makes it worse, right? http://sourceforge.net/projects/dumbster Dang viral licenses. And all the work that has been put into implementing Dumbster test cases! MockObjects is Apache-licensed, but the whole alt.javax.mail interface hierarchy has always kind of chafed me. Is it worth looking at it? Only javax.mail.Session is exposed in the current API at all, and that's only in a protected method. Maybe it wouldn't be as bad as it seems. Joe -- Joe Germuska [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://blog.germuska.com Narrow minds are weapons made for mass destruction -The Ex - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [VOTE] Promote Email to Commons Proper
A little bit of a digression but I'm reading through the LGPL blurb.. Can you give a bit more detail on this problem? Just as a matter or curiosity. Mark On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 21:00:16 +, robert burrell donkin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 15 Nov 2004, at 11:10, Eric Pugh wrote: snip (2) DEENDENCIES The Email component is dependent upon the following external components for development and use: snip * Dumbster Fake SMTP (Version 1.0.3 or later) - for unit tests only, not required for deployment i hate to do this to what is a good proposal but... isn't dumbster LGPL'd...? BaseEmailTestCase imports LGPL'd code and IIRC that's still problematic. (FSF refuse to clarify the situation with regard to java.) - robert - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [VOTE] Promote Email to Commons Proper
Damn, I need to Wiki this :) Basically, LGPL is a license written for the C programming language. While we all agree that its intent is to allow people to freely use the library, its wording means that the actual application to a language other than C is up for debate. A lot of this comes down to whether the term 'linking' means 'import' in Java or not. Early vs Late linking languages etc. Anyways, legal advice given to the ASF is not to be tied to an LGPL license as the LGPL is feasibly as viral as GPL. This isn't just some not-invented-here view the ASF have. Lawrence Rosen's latest book on open-source licensing seems to repeat the view. This means we cannot have LGPL'd jars in the CVS repository, that we cannot modify previously LGPL'd code and that we cannot import LGPL'd code in our import statements. The same applies for GPL (to answer Joe's question that yes, GPL is worse). I'm hoping that as the months go by next year we'll be able to import LGPL'd code in our code. GPL will still be out of the question, as would LGPL in CVS or modifying LGPL; but use of JFreeCharts, Hibernate and other libraries would be possible. So, yep. Dumbster's license seems to be a problem. One path is to explain this to the author and ask if they can dual-license it under something like BSD or ASL 2.0. Hen On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 23:04:11 +0100, Mark Lowe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A little bit of a digression but I'm reading through the LGPL blurb.. Can you give a bit more detail on this problem? Just as a matter or curiosity. Mark On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 21:00:16 +, robert burrell donkin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 15 Nov 2004, at 11:10, Eric Pugh wrote: snip (2) DEENDENCIES The Email component is dependent upon the following external components for development and use: snip * Dumbster Fake SMTP (Version 1.0.3 or later) - for unit tests only, not required for deployment i hate to do this to what is a good proposal but... isn't dumbster LGPL'd...? BaseEmailTestCase imports LGPL'd code and IIRC that's still problematic. (FSF refuse to clarify the situation with regard to java.) - robert - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [VOTE] Promote Email to Commons Proper
On 15 Nov 2004, at 22:04, Mark Lowe wrote: A little bit of a digression but I'm reading through the LGPL blurb.. Can you give a bit more detail on this problem? Just as a matter or curiosity. IANAL but here's my understanding of the apache concerns: the LGPL is strongly tied to C and C++ by the technical terms it uses. how these terms will be interpreted by the courts when used in java (or other similar languages) is uncertain to say the least. one perfectly reasonable reading is that (for java) the terms of the LGPL and the GPL are identical. the ASF has (over the years) made many approaches to the FSF asking them to address this issue but without success. therefore, until such time that either the courts or the FSF provide the necessary legal clarification, the ASF cannot allow such imports. - robert - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [VOTE] Promote Email to Commons Proper
http://wiki.apache.org/jakarta/Using_20LGPL_27d_20code On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 17:16:35 -0500, Henri Yandell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Damn, I need to Wiki this :) Basically, LGPL is a license written for the C programming language. While we all agree that its intent is to allow people to freely use the library, its wording means that the actual application to a language other than C is up for debate. A lot of this comes down to whether the term 'linking' means 'import' in Java or not. Early vs Late linking languages etc. Anyways, legal advice given to the ASF is not to be tied to an LGPL license as the LGPL is feasibly as viral as GPL. This isn't just some not-invented-here view the ASF have. Lawrence Rosen's latest book on open-source licensing seems to repeat the view. This means we cannot have LGPL'd jars in the CVS repository, that we cannot modify previously LGPL'd code and that we cannot import LGPL'd code in our import statements. The same applies for GPL (to answer Joe's question that yes, GPL is worse). I'm hoping that as the months go by next year we'll be able to import LGPL'd code in our code. GPL will still be out of the question, as would LGPL in CVS or modifying LGPL; but use of JFreeCharts, Hibernate and other libraries would be possible. So, yep. Dumbster's license seems to be a problem. One path is to explain this to the author and ask if they can dual-license it under something like BSD or ASL 2.0. Hen On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 23:04:11 +0100, Mark Lowe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A little bit of a digression but I'm reading through the LGPL blurb.. Can you give a bit more detail on this problem? Just as a matter or curiosity. Mark On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 21:00:16 +, robert burrell donkin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 15 Nov 2004, at 11:10, Eric Pugh wrote: snip (2) DEENDENCIES The Email component is dependent upon the following external components for development and use: snip * Dumbster Fake SMTP (Version 1.0.3 or later) - for unit tests only, not required for deployment i hate to do this to what is a good proposal but... isn't dumbster LGPL'd...? BaseEmailTestCase imports LGPL'd code and IIRC that's still problematic. (FSF refuse to clarify the situation with regard to java.) - robert - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [VOTE] Promote Email to Commons Proper
On 15 Nov 2004, at 21:48, Joe Germuska wrote: i hate to do this to what is a good proposal but... isn't dumbster LGPL'd...? No. It's GPL. Which only makes it worse, right? just as bad :) however, what's worse is that the licensing seems pretty confused: http://quintanasoft.com/dumbster/. darn :( http://sourceforge.net/projects/dumbster Dang viral licenses. And all the work that has been put into implementing Dumbster test cases! since the source isn't effected (only the tests), one approach might be to offshore the integration tests with an appropriate license. alternatively, if this is a one-developer project then we could ask him if he'd be willing to release the code under an alternative license. - robert - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [VOTE] Promote Email to Commons Proper
I don't think the dumbster jars are in CVS. But assuming that linking and importing are synominous then i guess things would be foiled on that front. I've sent dumbster man jason a mail explaining the problem. Mark On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 17:16:35 -0500, Henri Yandell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Damn, I need to Wiki this :) Basically, LGPL is a license written for the C programming language. While we all agree that its intent is to allow people to freely use the library, its wording means that the actual application to a language other than C is up for debate. A lot of this comes down to whether the term 'linking' means 'import' in Java or not. Early vs Late linking languages etc. Anyways, legal advice given to the ASF is not to be tied to an LGPL license as the LGPL is feasibly as viral as GPL. This isn't just some not-invented-here view the ASF have. Lawrence Rosen's latest book on open-source licensing seems to repeat the view. This means we cannot have LGPL'd jars in the CVS repository, that we cannot modify previously LGPL'd code and that we cannot import LGPL'd code in our import statements. The same applies for GPL (to answer Joe's question that yes, GPL is worse). I'm hoping that as the months go by next year we'll be able to import LGPL'd code in our code. GPL will still be out of the question, as would LGPL in CVS or modifying LGPL; but use of JFreeCharts, Hibernate and other libraries would be possible. So, yep. Dumbster's license seems to be a problem. One path is to explain this to the author and ask if they can dual-license it under something like BSD or ASL 2.0. Hen On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 23:04:11 +0100, Mark Lowe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A little bit of a digression but I'm reading through the LGPL blurb.. Can you give a bit more detail on this problem? Just as a matter or curiosity. Mark On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 21:00:16 +, robert burrell donkin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 15 Nov 2004, at 11:10, Eric Pugh wrote: snip (2) DEENDENCIES The Email component is dependent upon the following external components for development and use: snip * Dumbster Fake SMTP (Version 1.0.3 or later) - for unit tests only, not required for deployment i hate to do this to what is a good proposal but... isn't dumbster LGPL'd...? BaseEmailTestCase imports LGPL'd code and IIRC that's still problematic. (FSF refuse to clarify the situation with regard to java.) - robert - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [VOTE] Promote Email to Commons Proper
Joe Germuska wrote: i hate to do this to what is a good proposal but... isn't dumbster LGPL'd...? No. It's GPL. Which only makes it worse, right? http://sourceforge.net/projects/dumbster Dang viral licenses. And all the work that has been put into implementing Dumbster test cases! MockObjects is Apache-licensed, but the whole alt.javax.mail interface hierarchy has always kind of chafed me. Is it worth looking at it? Only javax.mail.Session is exposed in the current API at all, and that's only in a protected method. Maybe it wouldn't be as bad as it seems. Joe Actually it seems that it is LGPL starting with version 1.1. At least that's what the docs accompanying version 1.4 says. http://quintanasoft.com/dumbster/ -- Dennis Lundberg - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [VOTE] Promote Email to Commons Proper
I had a read of the LGPL, a lawyer but linking is mentioned. When a program is linked with a library, whether statically or using a shared library, the combination of the two is legally speaking a combined work, a derivative of the original library. The ordinary General Public License therefore permits such linking only if the entire combination fits its criteria of freedom. The Lesser General Public License permits more lax criteria for linking other code with the library.. Now just find out what they mean by criteria of freedom. On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 23:35:24 +0100, Dennis Lundberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Joe Germuska wrote: i hate to do this to what is a good proposal but... isn't dumbster LGPL'd...? No. It's GPL. Which only makes it worse, right? http://sourceforge.net/projects/dumbster Dang viral licenses. And all the work that has been put into implementing Dumbster test cases! MockObjects is Apache-licensed, but the whole alt.javax.mail interface hierarchy has always kind of chafed me. Is it worth looking at it? Only javax.mail.Session is exposed in the current API at all, and that's only in a protected method. Maybe it wouldn't be as bad as it seems. Joe Actually it seems that it is LGPL starting with version 1.1. At least that's what the docs accompanying version 1.4 says. http://quintanasoft.com/dumbster/ -- Dennis Lundberg - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [VOTE] Promote Email to Commons Proper
BTW lawrence rosen's 'open source licensing' is a good book (if you're interested in this kind of thing) also (aimed mainly at committers this comment, i suppose) the ASF have a list or two dedicated to licensing issues - robert On 15 Nov 2004, at 22:51, Mark Lowe wrote: I had a read of the LGPL, a lawyer but linking is mentioned. When a program is linked with a library, whether statically or using a shared library, the combination of the two is legally speaking a combined work, a derivative of the original library. The ordinary General Public License therefore permits such linking only if the entire combination fits its criteria of freedom. The Lesser General Public License permits more lax criteria for linking other code with the library.. Now just find out what they mean by criteria of freedom. On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 23:35:24 +0100, Dennis Lundberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Joe Germuska wrote: i hate to do this to what is a good proposal but... isn't dumbster LGPL'd...? No. It's GPL. Which only makes it worse, right? http://sourceforge.net/projects/dumbster Dang viral licenses. And all the work that has been put into implementing Dumbster test cases! MockObjects is Apache-licensed, but the whole alt.javax.mail interface hierarchy has always kind of chafed me. Is it worth looking at it? Only javax.mail.Session is exposed in the current API at all, and that's only in a protected method. Maybe it wouldn't be as bad as it seems. Joe Actually it seems that it is LGPL starting with version 1.1. At least that's what the docs accompanying version 1.4 says. http://quintanasoft.com/dumbster/ -- Dennis Lundberg - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [VOTE] Promote Email to Commons Proper
And LGPL ruins Eric's day.. Again.. When will Eric learn? He promises that this is the last time he'll look at a library without verifying the license first. So, enough with the third person. I wouldn't be surprised in the author picked LGPL because it look like a good middle of the road license. It does to me as well. Can you give me more details on what dual use means in the Apache friendly we can use it in email way? I did some searchs and found quite a few rather painful bits of information [1],[2], but nothing specific on what exactly dual licensing entails? And, which licenses can be dual licensed. This [3] article seemed to suggest that SpamAssassin was both ASL and LGPL at the same time? I am willing to approach Jason Kitche, the developer of Dumbster about either dual licensing or maybe granting us some sort of special license, but would like to have my facts in a row. Eric [1] http://www.apache.org/licenses/GPL-compatibility.html [2] http://www.dwheeler.com/essays/gpl-compatible.html [3] http://builder.com.com/5100-6372_14-5378447.html -Original Message- From: Henri Yandell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, November 15, 2004 10:17 PM To: Jakarta Commons Developers List; Mark Lowe Subject: Re: [VOTE] Promote Email to Commons Proper Damn, I need to Wiki this :) Basically, LGPL is a license written for the C programming language. While we all agree that its intent is to allow people to freely use the library, its wording means that the actual application to a language other than C is up for debate. A lot of this comes down to whether the term 'linking' means 'import' in Java or not. Early vs Late linking languages etc. Anyways, legal advice given to the ASF is not to be tied to an LGPL license as the LGPL is feasibly as viral as GPL. This isn't just some not-invented-here view the ASF have. Lawrence Rosen's latest book on open-source licensing seems to repeat the view. This means we cannot have LGPL'd jars in the CVS repository, that we cannot modify previously LGPL'd code and that we cannot import LGPL'd code in our import statements. The same applies for GPL (to answer Joe's question that yes, GPL is worse). I'm hoping that as the months go by next year we'll be able to import LGPL'd code in our code. GPL will still be out of the question, as would LGPL in CVS or modifying LGPL; but use of JFreeCharts, Hibernate and other libraries would be possible. So, yep. Dumbster's license seems to be a problem. One path is to explain this to the author and ask if they can dual-license it under something like BSD or ASL 2.0. Hen On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 23:04:11 +0100, Mark Lowe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A little bit of a digression but I'm reading through the LGPL blurb.. Can you give a bit more detail on this problem? Just as a matter or curiosity. Mark On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 21:00:16 +, robert burrell donkin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 15 Nov 2004, at 11:10, Eric Pugh wrote: snip (2) DEENDENCIES The Email component is dependent upon the following external components for development and use: snip * Dumbster Fake SMTP (Version 1.0.3 or later) - for unit tests only, not required for deployment i hate to do this to what is a good proposal but... isn't dumbster LGPL'd...? BaseEmailTestCase imports LGPL'd code and IIRC that's still problematic. (FSF refuse to clarify the situation with regard to java.) - robert - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [VOTE] Promote Email to Commons Proper
On Tue, 16 Nov 2004 00:15:07 +0100, Emmanuel Bourg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: robert burrell donkin wrote: until such time that either the courts or the FSF provide the necessary legal clarification, the ASF cannot allow such imports. Another solution mentioned in a previous thread is to write an addentum clarifying the uncertaincy of the LGPL for Java projects, have the ASF lawyers validate it and ask the authors of the LGPL components we'd like to use to add it to their licence. This is in the process by the way. Sam and Geir are our real champions on this, I figure my job is to nudge them from time to time. In the last board minutes, the board seemed to agree that this seemed reasonable and all seemed very positive about being able to use LGPL imports, though not .jars in our CVS or modifying LGPL code. I'm being a humble padowan, but I'll hassle them again in a few weeks to see if things are still moving. I assume they need to get this to the lawyers and get some agreement. So, there's hope, at the end of a still far away tunnel. Hen - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [VOTE] Promote Email to Commons Proper
So back to the original problem. Dumbster is currently used by the tests. The way I see it this leaves us with a few options: 1) Remove it (and wait for the ok or change of license 2) Replace it (I havent seen an alternative, but I am willing to look) 3) Do it ourselves. To be honest, my main motivation is just to get Email promoted and moving. That said, after using dumbster for a while I have found it to be a good idea, although I find the implementation to be quite limited. As it also seems to be a one man show, the likelihood of it progressing to far, is low. For this reason, I would like to test the water a suggest, what does everything think about doing a similar component and putting it the sandbox? For my mind, this would help us immensely, we could shape the component so that is was more agreeable to what we are trying to test and ensure that a user was able to retrieve a decent amount of info from the 'sent' mails, as this is a lacking at the moment. I am willing to work on this, but I will need someone to help me champion it and CVS committer. -Corey - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
