Re: Placing an order for September Release of FIC Neo.
Shachar Shemesh wrote: Ian Stirling wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is there any way to place an order now for the public release of the consumer targeted FIC NEO to come out after September. I dont want to purchase the current version but want to place an order asap for the public release version with Wifi etc. The current published date is October. The chance of polished user-ready software, that does significantly more than a Nokia 1100 by then is not extremely high. It's not the software I'm worried about, it's the hardware. Software can be upgraded after the purchase. Shachar Delays are likely. If FIC is listening, I'm also waiting for the second gen hardware and would like to see it ship as soon as it's ready. I don't care if the software is pretty or even fully functional yet, as long as its upgradeable. -Steve ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA02 Board only option in October?
Ian Stirling wrote: I would like to see a bare GTA01 board being available - even after GTA02 becomes available. There was some previous mention of available parts. I'd like to be able to buy the plastic case. That way I would have the option of possibly doing a little hardware hacking along with case modding, but still have the option to go back to the stock case. Looking at the Photos of the current version, the processor appears to be BGA. That'll make some things a bit hard. It'd be really nice if FIC routed any unused pins out from under the chip for us, *if* they have the board real estate for it. There's still a lot of interesting things that could be done with the existing available interfaces. Anybody have any clue how many layers the PCB is? (just curious) ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Apple is going to beat all competitors
ian douglas wrote: Andreas Utterberg wrote: Better to get it out now with more bugs, then later with less bugs. I disagree: having *any* noticeable bugs in a release product will bring a lot of criticism. Having more bugs just to get a release out the door will generate a lot of bad press about the efforts put in by everyone on the team, and will discourage a lot of people from trying the Neo. [...] This is a good point. Let me make a suggestion, don't delay the October hardware, but don't call it GTA02 either. That has already been associated with the phrase Mass Market Release. I propose releasing the hardware when it's ready as another dev model (maybe GTA01C) then rebrand it to GTA02 when it is shipping with bug free firmware. Even if the hardware hasn't changed. To the end user, the phone is a unit and encompasses the hardware and software. With this proposal, you get more phones into the hands of developers who will help fix up the software faster for a truly end user release. While, at the same time, keeping the press and bad word of mouth at bay since it's still a developer release. I have a feeling some devs are going to be handing the phone off to end users to try and get feedback, so figuring out when its ready shouldn't be too hard. This is just a suggestion, as I believe that it may increase the total uptake at the expense of some initial sales. I envision general interest when it works as a phone with more to follow as interesting applications are released. Getting the phone out before the market is flooded with touchscreen phones is a good idea, but not putting out a buggy product may outweigh it. (At least for a little while) ***I don't have a Neo, so I can't say if the software is ready or not yet. This opinion is based on the impression I get from this list.*** -Steve ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: ATI to provide specs
Harald Welte wrote: On 9/6/07, Steve [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It may be worth talking with ATI again. Since this announcement, I [...] As indicated previously, this agreement includes a statement that OpenMoko will work on to-be-publicized documentation on the SMedia chip, which will be jointly released at some point. I was not aware of this. I thought there would be no documentation released. I was also afraid that there may be magic code or missing features in the drivers due to NDA restrictions. It sounds as though those fears were unfounded. [...] Do you think we would be foolish enough not to talk to all vendors of the respective components? I really feel personally very sad that anyone believes that I am in this project for anything else then to provide the highest level of freedom for both hardware and software that is possible. Things change, the ATI announcement represents a major shift in their policy. I didn't mean to imply that you had never even talked with them, just that it may be a good idea to find out if the new policy extends to their mobile chips. I didn't mean to question your commitment to freedom. It's obvious that the Openmoko team is putting a lot of hard work and effort into making the hardware and software as free as is currently possible. I appreciate that effort and intend to support it by buying hardware and doing whatever I can on the software development front. [...] There is no other hardware vendor of devices with similar high level of integration that has taken openness to the degree that we are taking it. Starting with GTA02, we have a very firm openness policy for all our hardware components. Our future designs will follow the same line - and we're trying to continuously to push the borders any further. We make our position at chip manufacturers very clear. And we're having very fruitful discussions and results that I am proud of. Not only for the open hardware I expect to come out of this project, but for the example it sets. I believe in voting with my dollars, and that is why I will be buying the Neo 1973 and future ATI desktop graphics processors. -Steve ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: ATT is cruising for a bruising
Alexey Feldgendler wrote: On Mon, 10 Sep 2007 12:03:05 +0200, Raphaël Jacquot [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The problem was that their three Iphones were racking up a bill for data charges using foreign phone charges. The Iphone regularly updates e-mail, even while it's off, so that all the messages will be available when the user turns it on. This not because Apple or ATT are evil. It's actually a bug (or call it a design shortcoming) and could happen to anyone. OpenMoko should probably include some system-wide network access management that avoids huge roaming bills. Applications will normally assume that if they CAN establish a TCP connection, then it's OK to do so, and it's better to allow them think this way rather than have every application care about possible roaming. Otherwise one of the application developers will forget about it once, and we'll have a problem like Jay Levy's. This made me think that it would be great to have a GUI in which to set data preferences. I'm imagining a simple view where you could easily pick from several profiles. Some reasonable ones would be defined on a fresh install with a reasonable default. (Maybe all off, or all off for Cellular, all on for wifi/BT.) Profiles should be customizable in two levels, a simple category based level, and a fine grained individual application level (the advanced settings mode) with a catchall/undefined category in both versions. Profile application: There should be a map screen where you could define different profiles for different geographic regions by drawing them. (This would allow you to prevent international roaming data charges easily) With an advanced mode for defining different profiles at different times as well as physical location and possibly carrier. Profile customization: In the simple mode, allow on/off by application category, physical location, GSM carrier, non-cellular data connection. In advanced mode, allow on/off/rate limit (IE 200K/day) by category, individual application, location, GSM carrier, wifi, and BT. Questions: Should the time/location/carrier be part of the profile, part of the application of the profile, or both? (Both would likely be confusing) Should the profile control everything and not have a separate application of profiles step? (I think the separate step makes it easier for lay people, while the part of me editing config files in /etc doesn't want it.) Is there too much in the simple mode? How is this done technically? (I agree that trusting each application to follow the rules is probably a bad idea. Especially since we let anyone install anything. This could be done with SE Linux, but there's probably a better way.) Notes: It should be easy for a novice user to pick up the phone and turn data usage completely on and off at will, at least for cellular. -Steve ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
GSM/GPRS at same time? (was: Re: does dialer supports multiple calls at a time??)
Thomas Wood wrote: The Dialer does not currently support call hold or multiple concurrent calls because these features are not implemented in gsmd. I have a GPRS question, the wiki says (on the iphone comparison page) that it is class 12/cs4. That describes speed and number of channels. There's a third classification, A-C, which indicates whether it is capable of utilizing both voice/SMS and GPRS at the same time. Is the hardware capable of doing both at once? If so, is it planned to support that in the software? If it can't do both at once, does that mean that incoming voice calls will busy out? (I.E. the provider won't be able to deliver it and will route it to voicemail or whatever they normally do.) Since it was on the iphone page, does anyone know if the iphone can do both voice and data at the same time? I suspect both the Neo1973 and iphone fall into class B. Wikipedia describes the classes: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Packet_Radio_Service -Steve ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: 3G status within the US?
Brad Midgley wrote: Steve I wonder why this update can't be done in the field. The only cellular phones I can think of that had radio code which wasn't field updatable were AMPS phones with the firmware in (OT/E)PROMs. Surely the radio firmware in the Neo 1973 is stored in some sort of reprogrammable non-volatile memory. the phone OS is a separate firmware from the gsm module. This is a module that is supposed to just work so that may be why there's no update path worked out. The iPhone seems to be structured the same way. I think this is common in phones these days. see bbupdater: http://iphone.fiveforty.net/wiki/index.php/694-5259-38.dmg#usr.2Flocal.2Fbin.2Fbbupdater ...and their page on the baseband chipset: http://iphone.fiveforty.net/wiki/index.php/Baseband Just look at all the trouble these guys are going to in order to free their phone! -Steve ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Update: GPS driver for GTA01 and GSM firmware for GTA01
Michael Shiloh wrote: To expand a little on what Harald wrote, thanks to TI we are now able to distribute the upgraded GSM firmware, but we're still working on the exact distribution terms for the firmware update program. This is good news! The GSM Modem firmware update issue was making me a little antsy regarding my future GTA02 purchase. Thanks for keeping us up to date on this issue. Does this mean future updates will also be made available, or is it a matter of negotiating separately for each release? -Steve ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: application idea -- anti theft system
Stroller wrote: On 13 Oct 2007, at 00:09, Derek Pressnall wrote: I have an idea for a simple alarm application. The idea is that if you leave your phone sitting at your desk plugged in charging, then you can activate an app that will play an alrarm sound as soon as the devices is unplugged (with a popup keypad to enter a disarm code). A variant would use the gps to determine if the phone has moved more than a few feet from where you left it. I can think of lots of other ways to implement anti-theft measures in this phone. IMO if I'm too far away from the phone to notice someone nicking it then I'm unlikely to hear it making an alarm sound. I would have it instead check http://mywebsite.com/theft.txt and if it doesn't get a 404 (i.e. you only put the file there when the phone has been stolen) then have it email you its GPS position. [...] You may want to do the opposite. Your phone may think it's being stolen if you happen to get on something like a wireless connection with NoCatSplash. (Which hijacks the first attempt to grab a web page in order to show you a welcome page.) I'd be tempted to have PGP signed stolen/not stolen pages to alleviate any ambiguity. Failure to retrieve either would just be ignored. -Steve ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Community update: The 850 MHz issue
Thanks for letting us know so quickly. This definitely gives me something to think about purchase wise. Please keep us informed as to any future plans for alternate tri-band or quad-band hardware. -Steve Michael Shiloh wrote: Unfortunately, this also affects the GTA02, which is now far too close to production to try to enable quad-band operation. An 850/1800/1900MHz variant has been suggested but this is not yet determined. Michael Randall Mason wrote: Will the GTA02 have the quad band board (full working quad band capabilities to end users)? On 11/5/07, *Michael Shiloh* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello Community, I've just arrived in Taiwan and have figured out the quad band issue. The chipset is capable of quad band but the board was laid out to only support 3 bands. So, 850Mhz is not supported on the GTA01 board. Instead we support 900/1800/1900MHz. Anyone interested in more details is welcome to email me. Michael ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: /. : Feds Have Access To Cellphone Tracking On Request
I remember discussions of this on usenet many years ago. (in the AMPS days) I seem to remember a company selling software that cellular companies could run on their switches to triangulate phones. It was used to catch cloners and supposedly worked quite well, at least in well covered areas like major cities. Ostensibly, it worked by commanding the phone to switch between several towers and used the fact that the towers are each comprised of three directional antennas to determine your location. I always wondered why we needed fancy phones with extra and costly GPS hardware in them to be able to track emergency calls when this sort of triangulation should be possible at the base station. I'm not well versed in TDMA technology, but I seem to remember that the phone needs to track round trip time to the tower in order to transmit within its alloted time slice. I would think that information could also aid in location finding if transmitted back to the base station and require no extra hardware. Even older phones could transmit time slice delta information with a firmware update. A lot of Hams like to hold fox hunts where they work together in order to track down a transmitter. So there should be quite a few people well versed in attempting things like this. A dejanews search reveals the following and a bunch of other interesting threads: (take a look at the bottom of the thread) http://groups.google.com/group/alt.2600/browse_thread/thread/350942b847f8a85/e5bcc84ba00ce053?lnk=stq=triangulate+group%3A*cellular*#e5bcc84ba00ce053 -Steve Wolfgang S. Rupprecht wrote: Jeff Andros [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: OK, legal matters aside, your network operators ALWAYS know where your phone is: cell towers can triangulate the position of your phone(it's like reverse GPS... multiple receivers on a single source). I wonder how well this works on average. If this would work well enough I don't believe we'd be seeing all the integrated GPS units for the claimed purpose of servicing E911. Those things do add a real cost to the phone that cell phone providers are eating. If I were to try to mask the location of a cell phone, I'd simply stand within a few blocks of a cell tower and put the phone in the focus of a deep parabolic dish pointed at the cell tower of interest. I'd like to see the neighboring towers pick up a phone that is commanded to run at low xmit power with what is effectively a tight beam talking to the closest tower. But I do agree, hiding one's general location to within a few cell-tower radii is not possible. -wolfgang ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: Neo Freerunner manufacturing status
Some points. nearly everyone misses the difference between internal schedules and external schedules. In closed companies you never publish the Internal schedule. Announcing the future product kills the present product. You wait until the cake is fully baked, then you deliver it. Nobody sees your internal slips. Nobody sees the nasty bug it took forever to find. nobody sees the struggle and the hard work. They see the final product. and it is always on time. At Openmoko we choose to do things differently. Everyone on the outside sees the sausage being made. heck they help make the sausage!. Hard core engineers get this. It's very intimidating to have people watch your day to day struggling. It would be easy to be closed and announce new products only when they are finished. We choose a different path. specific questions about PVT. First DVT parts must complete testing. DVT testing is comprehensive. the device is expected to pass. question about A5 and A6. The difference between a5 and A6 is yield related. I don't have the specifics of the change order. An A5 will function exactly like an A6 does. It is Yeild only. sample A6 PCBs are coming into the factory end of march. How long will PVT take? On paper, if everything works according to NOMINAL schedules, then we would schedule 2-3 PVT runs ( run, test, tweak, run,test,tweak, run,test,tweak) If my product were the only product we built and if all tests were nominal, that would take a couple weeks. Then comes production. This too needs to be scheduled. If I guess at this stage I put huge pressure on engineering when they are trying to perfect this device. what is the point in that? The next significant Milestone will be the first PVT run. I'll update folks when that happens -Original Message- From: Michael Shiloh [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 11:25 AM To: List for OpenMoko community discussion Cc: steve Subject: Re: Neo Freerunner manufacturing status Hi Ian, Since I'm in California and the factory is in China, it's a little difficult for me to know exactly what the plan is and where there are concerns and weaknesses. As far as I can tell there is some concern that the yield initially may not be as high as we would like, and that some tweaking will be necessary. Until we manufacture a trial run, we won't know whether tweaking will be necessary or how extensive this tweaking needs to be. So, sadly, I don't know how long PVT will take and have no timeline. Perhaps those of you with more mass-production manufacturing experience can speak from your experiences. Michael ian douglas wrote: Hi Michael (and Steve), I'm surprised nobody has asked yet: I know Michael himself has admitted that Openmoko has been historically bad at estimating delivery dates, but is there *any* chance on getting an updated timeline now that we have this news about the A5/A6? IE: How long can we (reasonably) expect the design update from A5 to A6 expect to take? Will the PVT take a week? Two weeks? How long will final production take to ramp up and start seeing units make their way to shipping departments? Ian Michael Shiloh wrote: Hi everyone, I just received a status report from our VP of Marketing, Steve Mosher: The Freerunner design is currently staged to go through Production Validation Test (PVT). The hardware design A5 is, we believe, solid. We are updating this design to A6 to maximize production yields. The purpose of PVT is to make sure the yield is high enough, and to make sure the manufacturing and testing process is smooth and efficient. Steve also welcomes direct contact from you. He can be reached at [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: Price of the Freerunner published?
Thanks Sean, Let me just give the community an overview of what we want to do with sales, distributors, and partners moving forward. First and foremost we want to keep sales and marketing in Openmoko as LEAN as humanly possible so we put maximum effort into engineering. So, in the same way the engineering departments rely on the community of developers, sales and marketing will rely on a community of resellers. I could build a big sales and marketing organization. I refuse to do this. I don't think it serves Openmoko or the community. I would rather have people in the community support the brand, build the brand, extend the sales channel and make some money for their effort and risk. For me it's simple: Hire a guy or empower the community? I choose the latter. So, we are working toward a system of discounts for people who buy say 10 phones or 50 phones, and we are trying to create an opportunity for them so they can make money on their belief: their belief that FreeRunner will be a great product. Sean and I think that this belief should be rewarded and encouraged. So, we will do this. Buying 10 phones, for example, will be as easy as buying 1 phone. And there will be a discount. Steve -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Sean Moss-Pultz Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 3:09 AM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Re: Price of the Freerunner published? ramsesoriginal wrote: On Thu, Mar 20, 2008 at 3:52 PM, Pietro m0nt0 Montorfano [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Christian Beier ha scritto: Am Wed, 19 Mar 2008 22:48:10 +0100 schrieb Carlo E. Prelz [EMAIL PROTECTED]: What we Europeans would need is a FIC subsidiary somewhere here, As I read FIC has some branch in Czech or Slovakia. Thing is: If you ship a container €70 is definitely not the price per device. You can help: motivate enough penguin people to buy a new phone and maybe some one will risk such order. If FIC could ship them to Czech (or Slovakia) with their in house post it might be easier to get a good price. Let's hope. Christian This is what i'd like to do with my LUG and some other people near me, take the name, make only one order of 10 Neos and then give the phones to the people. Obviously the price will not be lowered a lot, but the shipping costs are usually divided so in total it will cost less to everyone. We always do the same with thinkgeek things or some CDs or DVDs. Just my 0.2€cent :D Pietro The same also holds true if (and here comes the crazy part: correct me if it's illegal) someone want's to buy a bunch of Freerunners (let's say 10), customize them (with custom themes, programs, settings, maybe even pre-filled data, some additional hardware, case mods, and much more), and resell them, either to privates that want given features, or to firms as a working phone, or for some specific application (for example skiers, with custom software and theme). Doing so would also allow to grow a family of hacks around the openmoko (a version with a webcam? with build-in batteries? with r/c sender incorporated? with wooden case?). Just my two €-cents There is nothing crazy about this idea. In fact, this is exactly what we're planning for ;-) Details will come later from Steve or Harry. Sean ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: Price of the Freerunner spare parts
I thought about spare parts a while back. The Issue is this. 1. WHAT do I stock ( which parts) 2. How Many do I stock? 3. How do I sell them to you? 4. What will it cost? 5. how do you get them? I suppose I could Offer component kits for sale. That would be the quickest thing for me to do. Sell the whole bag of parts; fix it your self. or build a business around this service. Let me think about it. Throw rotten fruit at this idea if you like. Steve -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of joerg Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 8:44 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Price of the Freerunner spare parts Am So 23. März 2008 schrieb Sean Moss-Pultz: We will have our own hub in the EU. Neos will move directly from our factory to that hub. What's about availability and pricing of spare parts like LCM, battery, housing? Will there be any repair service? cheers jOERG ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Production status Update
Hi, I have some updates on production for everybody. To recap what I explained we have two Milestones to pass before flipping the Mass production switch. DVT and PVT. DVT. The phones from Design Verification Test have been characterized and have been passed back to engineering. So, we are proceeding with a series of PVT builds to test the production worthiness of the design. As those PVT runs get going, I'll update everyone on the results. Steve ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: Price of the Freerunner spare parts
Thomas, The logistical difficulty in stocking distributors with spare parts is a very large uncertainity. The fundamental problem is having a spare parts usage model. or consumption model. That is, a model, an estimate, of how many parts to spare. This comes with time and experience. In the beginning people always guess wrong. It also requires estimates of repair costs which no one has. If I had to guess, based on my experience with other products, I would say that the cost of shipping, parts,and repair would exceed the replacement costs in a substantial number of cases. But onto your specifics: 1. Batteries. We will have a Battery replacement that you can purchase without coming back to us or our disty. The replacements will be standard parts. 2. Stylus. again, we are going the open route. Nothing proprietary about our stylus. 3. Front and back covers? I would no clue whatsoever how many to sell to disty. and what would he do with the unsold ones? I suppose I could offer bags of plastic parts for sale on the web, but its a huge amount of trouble for very little benefit. 4. Headsets. Its a standard part. 5. Pouches: there are plenty of third party suppliers of these. 6. Charger. I have also pushed for a standard charger. basically so guys can use stock USB chargers. If I put Spare parts at the Hub, The cost of shipping them back and forth and the uncertainty in demand would force me to price a spare screen, for example, at the cost of phone. Why, because a spare screen in the hub does no good if it goes unsold. How long do I keep it there? in the factory, I turn it into a phone. Sitting in the hub, its a doorstop. Who pays to keep it there? Do I spare 10%, what if only 5% get used. Who owns the leftover screens? do I pass those costs on everyone? Steve _ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of thomasg Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 6:17 PM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Re: Price of the Freerunner spare parts I think spare parts are things that should be available via the distributors. 1. What: there are some parts everybody needs to replace or restock at some point: battery (very important), stylus (not really important), front/back-cover (moderately important), headsets, pouches, cables/chargers (reasonably important) 2. How many: see importance (1.) for relative numbers 3. Bigger stocks for distributors, no direct selling in small numbers 4. Make it cheap :P 5. Same as (3.) I guess there are many people who need at least spare batteries and some who'd like to have extra pouches (me! :), so this are things that should be offered to the customers. The effort and prices can be reasonable by only selling larger numbers. Additional spare parts like displays, antennas and so on could be available in smaller number at the local hubs, so resellers can get it for their customers if really needed. On Tue, Mar 25, 2008 at 12:00 AM, steve [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I thought about spare parts a while back. The Issue is this. 1. WHAT do I stock ( which parts) 2. How Many do I stock? 3. How do I sell them to you? 4. What will it cost? 5. how do you get them? I suppose I could Offer component kits for sale. That would be the quickest thing for me to do. Sell the whole bag of parts; fix it your self. or build a business around this service. Let me think about it. Throw rotten fruit at this idea if you like. Steve -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of joerg Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 8:44 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Price of the Freerunner spare parts Am So 23. März 2008 schrieb Sean Moss-Pultz: We will have our own hub in the EU. Neos will move directly from our factory to that hub. What's about availability and pricing of spare parts like LCM, battery, housing? Will there be any repair service? cheers jOERG ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: Price of the Freerunner spare parts
On Batteries. The battery should be a commodity. as easy to purchase as a AA at your local shop or over the web. So, I've asked Engineering to supply me with a list of replacement batteries that anybody can go out and buy from their local shop or the web. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Marcus Bauer Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 8:40 PM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: RE: Price of the Freerunner spare parts On Mon, 2008-03-24 at 16:00 -0700, steve wrote: I thought about spare parts a while back. The Issue is this. 1. WHAT do I stock ( which parts) batteries 2. How Many do I stock? thousands ;-) 3. How do I sell them to you? via the resellers 4. What will it cost? free as in beer :°) 5. how do you get them? by postal service :) I suppose I could Offer component kits for sale. That would be the quickest thing for me to do. Sell the whole bag of parts; fix it your self. or build a business around this service. Let me think about it. Throw rotten fruit at this idea if you like. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: Price of the Freerunner spare parts
Interesting, Which country? how is the list of spare parts determined? A simple question. If you sell a flashlight that takes standard batteries must you hold a stock of 3 years of spare batteries for all your customers? Or if you sell a car must hold 3 years of spare tires in stock for all the customers? If you sell a Lamp, do you hold 3 years of light bulbs as spares? basically, this goes to the definition of spare part. Im curious how they define it. Steve _ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ofek Doron [Ofek BIZ] Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2008 1:12 AM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Price of the Freerunner spare parts Hi Steve, There is a different between countries. It's a legal (rules and regulations) issue. in my county you can not seal a devises without the ability to seal spare parts. The regulator must to make sure that you have the ability to support the costumers (include hardware maintenance and support) its mean that any distributor / reseller need to hold a spare parts in stock (or to make sure that he have a continuous supply of spare parts) for 3 years after the date the costumer buy a device . - doron steve wrote: I thought about spare parts a while back. The Issue is this. 1. WHAT do I stock ( which parts) 2. How Many do I stock? 3. How do I sell them to you? 4. What will it cost? 5. how do you get them? I suppose I could Offer component kits for sale. That would be the quickest thing for me to do. Sell the whole bag of parts; fix it your self. or build a business around this service. Let me think about it. Throw rotten fruit at this idea if you like. Steve -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of joerg Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 8:44 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Price of the Freerunner spare parts Am So 23. März 2008 schrieb Sean Moss-Pultz: We will have our own hub in the EU. Neos will move directly from our factory to that hub. What's about availability and pricing of spare parts like LCM, battery, housing? Will there be any repair service? cheers jOERG ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- http://www.ofek.biz P Save a tree...please don't print this e-mail image001.gif___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: Price of the Freerunner spare parts
Maybe I just create a spares product? with 3 batteries, and some other goodies thrown in? What goodies would go in that bag? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of ian douglas Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2008 8:19 PM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Re: Price of the Freerunner spare parts Wolfgang Spraul wrote: There are lots of clones of these Nokia batteries, we bought a few and can give you the names. But basically anything BL-4C, BL-5C, BL-6C compatible should work. Just my $0.02 here, but: *Should* work, or *definitely* work? I'd rather not buy a 'maybe' battery and would rather buy a branded battery direct from OM... But if enough people test these BL-?C batteries and prove they work just fine and nobody has any incidents related to a Nokia battery, then okay, I'll look for a local vendor selling them if I need a spare battery. I ran into the same issue with my iRiver digital music player, I needed a replacement, but iRiver didn't make this model any more so after-market batteries were all that were left. In the end, an iPod replacement battery did the job, but the polarity on the jumper header needed to be switched before plugging it in and reassembling the case. I only ordered the battery once I'd read about 20 personal accounts that, yeah, this particular battery worked just fine, no incidents. Just the 'realist' in me coming out to play. :o) ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: Price of the Freerunner spare parts
I dont believe the replacements have the columb counter. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of joerg Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2008 10:05 PM To: Clare Johnstone; List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Re: Price of the Freerunner spare parts Am Mi 26. März 2008 schrieb clare: On Wed, 26 Mar 2008, Wolfgang Spraul wrote: This is pretty much finished on my end. Nokia BL-6C. Allen Lin did tests (we could only get BL-5C so far, also works). There are lots of clones of these Nokia batteries, we bought a few and can give you the names. But basically anything BL-4C, BL-5C, BL-6C compatible should work. Wolfgang on the GTA01v4 they work but will not charge. Is it different on FReeRunner? They *might* charge better in GTA02 (i guess not tested yet), and they won't deliver same telemetry you get from GTA02's smart-bat coloumb-counter (see wiki). jOERG ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: Price of the Freerunner spare parts
Hi Kevin, Libertarian as well here. The first charger I want to test is my iGo as well. A while back I discussed the fast charging issue with Engineering. I'll revisit that issue and get back to you guys. My understanding ( rememeber I'm marketing and have been appropriately lobotomized) is that our device checks the ID of the charger and then determines whether or not we can fast charge. ( greater than 750ma I think... ) Steve -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kevin Dean Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2008 9:17 PM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Re: Price of the Freerunner spare parts National warranties aside (I'm a libertarian...) I see certifying aftermarket accessories as a crucial step for Openmoko, or at the v ery least picking ONE that works well with a Neo/Freerunner device. I recently purchased an iGo charger in the USA that claimed it could charger a 100, 500 or 1000 mA device and it can't. :P I'm out $40, which isn't crucial to me, but it's a sum that is large enough to regret paying when a $10 charger would be equally effective. I don't want to veer too far off topic but third-party accessories and battery life are directly tied IMO. As long as the battery life suck on the Neo/Freerunner people will need chargers for the device, and as long as a working fast-charge charger doesn't exist, it will be construed as bad planning. -Kevin Dean On Tue, Mar 25, 2008 at 11:18 PM, ian douglas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Wolfgang Spraul wrote: There are lots of clones of these Nokia batteries, we bought a few and can give you the names. But basically anything BL-4C, BL-5C, BL-6C compatible should work. Just my $0.02 here, but: *Should* work, or *definitely* work? I'd rather not buy a 'maybe' battery and would rather buy a branded battery direct from OM... But if enough people test these BL-?C batteries and prove they work just fine and nobody has any incidents related to a Nokia battery, then okay, I'll look for a local vendor selling them if I need a spare battery. I ran into the same issue with my iRiver digital music player, I needed a replacement, but iRiver didn't make this model any more so after-market batteries were all that were left. In the end, an iPod replacement battery did the job, but the polarity on the jumper header needed to be switched before plugging it in and reassembling the case. I only ordered the battery once I'd read about 20 personal accounts that, yeah, this particular battery worked just fine, no incidents. Just the 'realist' in me coming out to play. :o) ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: headphone (was: RE: Price of the Freerunner spare parts)
Will, On the web shop and the wiki I would like to see a list of suitable replacements for the batteries ( nokia bl4,5,6 and clones) the charger, the stylus, the headsets. Steve -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of joerg Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2008 8:13 AM To: community@lists.openmoko.org Cc: Marcus Bauer Subject: Re: headphone (was: RE: Price of the Freerunner spare parts) Am Mi 26. März 2008 schrieb Marcus Bauer: On Tue, 2008-03-25 at 18:58 -0700, steve wrote: But onto your specifics: 4. Headsets. Its a standard part. Hi Steve, I looked on the wiki pages but can't find the specs. As nokia headsets with a 2.5mm plug don't work (different wiring and impedance) there are apparently several standards for headsets. Can you tell us which wiring the jack uses and what impedance the earplugs have? I already did this somewhere in wiki, IIRC. Wait a moment, I'll have a look where to find it. jOERG ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: Price of the Freerunner spare parts
ok, let me noodle on this a bit. I have some ideas. -Original Message- From: Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2008 11:41 AM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Cc: steve Mosher Subject: Re: Price of the Freerunner spare parts If the goal is to have only one kind of spares kit, I would put in: 1-2 batteries (100% original) 1 battery cover (100% original) 1 USB charger (if that is a special one) no LCD no other components (e.g. no USB cables, memory chips, they are commodity) I think resellers can put 2 or 3 devices aside to extract other parts like LCDs or PCBs for repair. They are quite expensive parts anyway so the difference to a full Neo becomes smaller. Am 27.03.2008 um 17:42 schrieb steve: Maybe I just create a spares product? with 3 batteries, and some other goodies thrown in? What goodies would go in that bag? Nikolaus ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: Price of the Freerunner spare parts
Thanks, At one point I suggested that an ingenious person might change this particular resistor check so that other chargers would work in fast mode ( if they were capable) I can't recall where that discussion ended up. So for example, My moto mini usb is 850ma, So I would just turn off the software resistor check plug it into my moto charger and ?? not blow it up?? The open source aspect of this, of course creates opportunities and dangers. lets keep the discussion going. My goal is not to turn Openmoko into a supplier of expensive chargers. We would rather leverage what is already out there. my moto charger was outrageous; I got the Igo for free a long while back when they first started, so hey cant beat that. your thoughts, always appreciated -Original Message- From: joerg [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2008 11:59 AM To: community@lists.openmoko.org Cc: steve Subject: Re: Price of the Freerunner spare parts Am Do 27. März 2008 schrieb steve: Hi Kevin, Libertarian as well here. The first charger I want to test is my iGo as well. A while back I discussed the fast charging issue with Engineering. I'll revisit that issue and get back to you guys. My understanding ( rememeber I'm marketing and have been appropriately lobotomized) is that our device checks the ID of the charger and then determines whether or not we can fast charge. ( greater than 750ma I think... ) Steve Correct, it checks for 48k-OHM resistor on ID-pin of mini-USB, then enables 1A instead of 100/500mA USB-standard. You also may enable 1A-mode (and 500mA mode) via some small GUI-app IIRC. cheers jOERG ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: Price of the Freerunner spare parts
Thanks Kevin, I recall asking engineering what would happen if somebody disabled this check ( hey its open source) and the general impression was that if the charger was not capable of fast charging then you would not have nice outcomes. I think the worse case might be if you tried to draw more than 500ma from a PC USB. Somebody not in marketing should answer that question. Steve -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kevin Dean Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2008 12:22 PM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Cc: steve Subject: Re: Price of the Freerunner spare parts On Thu, Mar 27, 2008 at 2:58 PM, joerg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Correct, it checks for 48k-OHM resistor on ID-pin of mini-USB, then enables 1A instead of 100/500mA USB-standard. You also may enable 1A-mode (and 500mA mode) via some small GUI-app IIRC. This is possible via userspace with Bobby's application. (http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/CheckFastCharge-script). However, the flaw to this is that it will force fast charge even if the charger isn't capable and hints that this could be... bad. :) For the record, it APPEARS that with the Python application, the iGo works just fine as a charger. -Kevin ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: Price of the Freerunner spare parts
Thx. -Original Message- From: joerg [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2008 5:19 PM To: community@lists.openmoko.org Cc: steve; 'Kevin Dean' Subject: Re: Price of the Freerunner spare parts Engineering says: you can't have both, 1A charging _and_ protection for every case of missmanagement (DAU, stupid user). USB is specified for 500mA MAX. Period! (and devices have even to announce when they want more than 100mA). Anyway a stupid charger consisting of a transformer, a diode bridge, and at best some 5V-regulator, usually doesn't know of *any* announcement via USB-protocol regarding 100-500mA (it probably has only 2 of the 4 wires it needs for *real* USB). So the situation is (or to be clear: SHOULD BE. This has to be checked carefully for Freerunner, cause there are indications it's not at least like this) connect any charger: - - NEO will take no more than 100mA (actually 200-300mA, BUG! (AFAIK)) have intelligent host (PC) OR set charge mode to 500mA by GUI applet: - - NEO will take no more than 500mA (yet to be tested?) connect original OM-charger (with 47K resistor) OR set charge mode to 1000mA by GUI applet (not yet implemented?): - - NEO will take no more than 1A (PMU 50633 limit) (this seems to work, more or less) Alas there is *absolutely* *NO* way for NEO though to tell when your braindead 850mA charger will start to slowly melt down overnight when you set 1A charge mode via applet. It's very unlikely there will ever be any trouble other than very rare occasional broken chargers, but we just can't guarantee it's safe, for nobody knows all the chargers in this world. However it's not our fault when sth really bad is happening, for every charger/host is supposed to be short-circuit safe (mustn't burn, otherwise probably mustn't be sold), and it's the USER who has to think *before* enabling 1A mode. Hey guys, when connecting your 110V device to a 230V outlet in Europe, whom do you blame for the smoke?! For the Y-cables to connect to 2 USB-hostports: these are absolute fake, they don't balance the current in any manner, so if one port is blowfused (cause it once was strong) or it is weak, or dead, or disabled, the whole surge goes to the other stronger port (Blam!). And these Y-cables not even do correct negotiation for at least 500mA per port!!! So with these Y-cables, all you can safely expect are no more 100mA! Everything beyond breaks specs again. I (for own use) will check the writing on my charger, then guess whether it's reasonably safe to enable 500mA or 1A, and maybe come back after 10 min to check whether it's still charging and charger does not start to smell. For PC USB-hosts I have no problem to force 500mA (though this should be nonsense because will happen automatically), and i will *never* try 1A, not even with Y-adapter. bottom line: USB is specified for 500mA at MAX, and even this needs intelligent host (alias charger). Everything beyond has to have some intelligence with it, either the one of the user not messing with chargemode, or the one of OM-designers creating and checking for a proprietary way to signal 500mA charger capabilities (=48k). (PS: For the record: If i got this right, the 48k even means I'm a charger and I can do *2*(!)A, just GTA02 can't take more than 1A. This might change for GTA0x!) HTH cheers your friendly engineer jOERG Am Do 27. März 2008 schrieb steve: Thanks Kevin, I recall asking engineering what would happen if somebody disabled this check ( hey its open source) and the general impression was that if the charger was not capable of fast charging then you would not have nice outcomes. I think the worse case might be if you tried to draw more than 500ma from a PC USB. Somebody not in marketing should answer that question. Steve -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kevin Dean Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2008 12:22 PM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Cc: steve Subject: Re: Price of the Freerunner spare parts On Thu, Mar 27, 2008 at 2:58 PM, joerg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Correct, it checks for 48k-OHM resistor on ID-pin of mini-USB, then enables 1A instead of 100/500mA USB-standard. You also may enable 1A-mode (and 500mA mode) via some small GUI-app IIRC. This is possible via userspace with Bobby's application. (http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/CheckFastCharge-script). However, the flaw to this is that it will force fast charge even if the charger isn't capable and hints that this could be... bad. :) For the record, it APPEARS that with the Python application, the iGo works just fine as a charger. -Kevin ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community
RE: The problem with non-standard USB charging (was: Re: Price of the Freerunner spare parts)
Ya this nailed it for me. thx Michael. -Original Message- From: joerg [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, March 28, 2008 11:43 AM To: Michael Shiloh Cc: List for Openmoko community discussion; steve Subject: Re: The problem with non-standard USB charging (was: Re: Price of the Freerunner spare parts) Michel, this is a perfect description of the current situation. You have to wear the t-shirt yourself! :-) cherrs jOERG Am Fr 28. März 2008 schrieb Michael Shiloh: Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the big problem is that there is no standard for reporting current capacity other than the USB protocol, which is not supported by dumb chargers. What this means is that the various tricks that we and others play (shorting unused data pins, adding resistors of specific values between two pins, etc.) are all completely non-standard meaning there is no agreement between manufacturers and most importantly NO PROM iSE THAT FUTURE DEVICES OF THE SAME MODEL NUMBER WILL USE THE SAME TECHNIQUE! In other words we could test a given Motorola charger today, find that they have a resistor of value x between two pins, write the code to test for this value and then bump up the current draw to the value that we know the Motorola charger can provide. But then next month Motorola might change the value of this resistor. They might send a firmware update over the air to all their phones to make existing phones compatible with the new charger. We, of course, do not get this update, and suddenly the charger that we had tested no longer works. For a good example of this problem see Lady Ada's discussion on her Minty Boost. You will see a string of reports from people saying they needed to modify the resistor value and/or location in order to get Minty Boost to work with different models of iPods. And any solution is always temporary, until Apple changes something and then the resistor must change again. Thus the only way we can guarantee safe charging at higher than the USB maximum of 500mA is with our own charger. I would love to see a technical report, a white paper, written on this issue. Would anyone like to take on the challenge? Winner gets an Openmoko t-shirt (http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/SWAG) Michael Kevin Dean wrote: O community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: Accelerometer brainstorming
Ya, I started down the API path with Michael Shiloh a while back, but we got diverted by other things. Hi matt, Lets talk about your ideas, we need to highlight the new hardware we added. Let me know what you are thinking -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Crane, Matthew Sent: Friday, March 28, 2008 11:08 AM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: RE: Accelerometer brainstorming Yea, there would need to be a decent test and experiment app, with GUI, record data feature, and visualization of data. That would be needed likely before the ideas we've mentioned could be worked out. Need to develop a solid API and event notification system. That sort of thing prob exists for GPS, but should it be new/separate or tagged onto GPS for acellerometer? Matt -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ben Burdette Sent: Friday, March 28, 2008 1:40 PM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Re: Accelerometer brainstorming Alexey Feldgendler wrote: Just like my recent post about using GPS to enhance the phone, I'll try to explore the synergy opportunities for the accelerometers that Neo has. Once again, some of this might have already been discussed. I'd like to see an accelerometer graphing application, so you could monitor and graph g force levels. Maybe throw in a zeroing button to set a baseline orientation, then show deviation from that. Maybe not extraordinarily useful, but it would be cool to look at. You could also record the data for later hacking or comparison, like what was my max g-force last time I went skydiving compared to this time? The graphing and etc would be good for studying the feasability of other accelerometer uses, ie is a tap on the case a recognizable event? Speaking of that, I'd like a tap on the case to be configurable as a mute function during ringing. So if you forgot to mute your phone at the symphony and it starts ringing somewhere inside your backpack or jacket, a well placed kick would (probably) mute it. The value here is not having to hunt for the phone and find a button on it. I guess this falls under the larger category of gesture recognition, but this alone would be a real win for me. Another use would be as a 0-60 or quarter mile acceleration timer. Here's a link to a company that makes these: http://www.gtechpro.com/?gclid=CLf7wPmpsJICFRI0awod1CWyQQ I don't know if the accelerometer in the freerunner is accurate enough, but this is a low priced product, I'd think their accelerometers are not a great deal better, if any. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: WAG about spares ratios
Thanks Ron, You numbers and mine are roughly in the same ballpark, roughly -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ron K. Jeffries Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2008 12:23 PM To: community@lists.openmoko.org Subject: WAG about spares ratios Steve wrote: ~~ From: steve [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'List for Openmoko community discussion' community@lists.openmoko.org Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2008 10:30:33 -0700 Subject: RE: Price of the Freerunner spare parts Yes, The information about returns and defects etc needs to be shared. First, however, it needs to be established or estimated. I haven't seen a single number from anybody on the demand rate for batteries or LCD or back covers. Anyone care to guess? Since you asked g, here are my WAGs (with rationale) Item: Projected spares demand (adjust after 6 months field experience) Battery 1 spare per 8 units sold rationale: desire for spare battery more likely due to wide range of uses (as compared with standard phone). If Nokia battery is really as good as then this can be lower but not zero. LCD1 spare per 75 units sold 9slightly more than 1 percent) LCD breakage is not frequent, but enough that we need spares Back cover 1 spare per 200 units sold not a high failure item, but a pain when it goes. if this is not a sturdy part with perfect fit, the rate will be quite a bit higher ~~~ A lot of money can be squandered if spares kan-bans are set too high but the flip side of that coin is that a lot of delay for customers to get spares leads to unhappy customers, and in some cases will trigger swapping an entire unit which is REALLY expensive. -- Ron K. Jeffries http://blog.eronj.com ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Loosing your moko
On Fri, Apr 04, 2008 at 12:36:48AM +0800, Sean Moss-Pultz wrote: Sebastian Billaudelle wrote: Hi there! I thought about the risk of loosing the moko or of getting it stolen... I got the following idea: If you can't find you moko, you only have to send an SMS with a special keyword/passphrase to your moko. It recognises the special text and sends the current coordinates to a server. So you can see it's position. Hehe...sounds fun. I think more along the lines of: On startup a process runs, if it recognises the sim it shuts down, if it doesn't recognise the sim it continues in the background until an ip connection is established and it takes the data from current sim and uploads it $somewhere, or if that takes too long, takes the phone number from current sim and smses that to a nominated phone number. Hello, Police? Yea, the person who has my stolen phone has this phone number: xx and is located here: y could you please get it back for me? Steve /.. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Product Update
As I explained a while back we had a few milestones to hit before beginning mass production. The First was DVT. Building phones and verifying the design. That's been completed and so we have Moved onto the next stage PVT. Verifying the design for Production. This stage is always a bit annoying Because the temptation is to throw the switch and build a billion phones. There are three PVT builds scheduled And the first has been completed. The completed handsets will be tested and then we will tweak the process and build two more PVT batches. It's the final push people so everybody keep your good humour. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: Any updates on the PVT status?
I thought I did an update on this, so let me repeat the update, and add some details. The DVT run, the design verification was completed a bit ago and the design has been verified. For a short Time I had some worries about landscape mode, but Engineering figured out that the issue was driver setting. PVT is proceeding. At least 3 PVT runs are planned and phones from PVT are headed back to Tiawan. During PVT there are always minor tweaks. This PVT will be no different than any other PVT. You build 100 phones, you find out that 85 work, you tweak the process to improve that. You build another batch. Since DVT is passed all that is left is production details. Running the lines, tuning the process. Trust me This is not a time to bug an engineer and ask is done yet? are we there yet? So what happens from here on out. First we have to complete PVT. That means we have to review all the PVT builds And then we have to decide to start Mass Production. And then we have to schedule our start date. Finally, if people want an early sample and can convince me that they have a good business idea, send me mail. I have a very small number of samples headed my way and I want to make sure I listen to ideas and proposals I havent heard. Steve -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Federico Lorenzi Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2008 2:00 AM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Any updates on the PVT status? Hello, Just wondering, is there any news regarding the status of the PVT runs? Will a new design be needed / is the current one good for mass production / minor tweaks needed / whatever? Cheers, Federico ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: Hardware update
The FreeRunner uses a 500 Mhz CPU. The board design is rated to 400 Mhz. So, if people check CPU processing specs they will see 500MHz. Operationally, we limit it to 400 Mhz. For a varety of reasons. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Joe Pfeiffer Sent: Monday, April 07, 2008 12:43 PM To: community@lists.openmoko.org Subject: Re: Hardware update Alexander Frøyseth writes: Soo 400/500 MHz is no more? I've never heard any projection that openmoko was ever going to run on 400 or 500 MHz -- in fact, I'd never heard of that GSM band, and googled to find it! ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: Hardware update
The reasons are twofold. 1. The board was designed to operate at 400MHZ. It was designed to run at 400Mhz because the CPU we chose was rated at 400MHz. So running faster than 400MHZ is NOT within the design spec. The phone will ship with a 500MHZ processor because that is what we can buy. Simple. we ordered 400 MHZ. we designed to 400Mhz, and the part we can physically purchase is 500MHZ. So, if I say its 400MHZ and somebody checks the chip, they will say HEY it's 500MHZ and if I say its 500MHZ and somebody checks the speed it runs at they will say HEY its 400 Mhz 2. Even if I could run it at 500Mhz the battery life would suffer. So. We designed it to run at 400. All the cpus are rated at 500. Steve -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Daniel Spies Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 5:01 AM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: RE: Hardware update So, if it doesn't cause too much trouble, may you describe these reasons? Or is there anything on the wiki? (Sorry I cannot check it myself right now.) Daniel On Tue, 8 Apr 2008 13:39:58 -0700, steve [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The FreeRunner uses a 500 Mhz CPU. The board design is rated to 400 Mhz. So, if people check CPU processing specs they will see 500MHz. Operationally, we limit it to 400 Mhz. For a varety of reasons. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Joe Pfeiffer Sent: Monday, April 07, 2008 12:43 PM To: community@lists.openmoko.org Subject: Re: Hardware update Alexander Frøyseth writes: Soo 400/500 MHz is no more? I've never heard any projection that openmoko was ever going to run on 400 or 500 MHz -- in fact, I'd never heard of that GSM band, and googled to find it! ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: Web Browser?
The accelerometers measure gforce. They measure this force at a certain frequency ( the spec is out there) as with all accelerometers there is a measurement error and a drift. the Phone has two 3 axis accelerometers, and simple physics tells you if you have Xdotdot, Ydotdot, and Zdotdot, you can integrate over time and get velocity in each axis and integrate again to get position. So in theory you can compute the entire 6DOF relative geometry of the system (x,y,z, psi, theta,phi) However, the noise in the signal and your integration step will limit your accuracy. So, its very application specific. For filtering there are many choices. If you know the underlying dynamic model then a Kalman filter might be a good choice. If you google or wikipedia on kalman filter and accelerometer you should find stuff. code even. The neat trick is combining GPS data with accelerometer data. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of simarillion Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 2:29 AM To: community@lists.openmoko.org Subject: Re: Web Browser? Am Mittwoch 09 April 2008 10:08:10 schrieb Ricky Fitz: Probably use the accelerometers for this? If phone bends over a few degrees, scroll down or up... ? I think this is a great and innovative idea. Does somebody know which resolution can be achieved with those acceleration sensors (single degrees, 10 degrees)? And is really a 3d position detection possible or are there any technical constraints. Best regards, Michael ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: Who is who ?
we actually wanted to promote local groups so we created a special product for them -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Philippe Guillebert Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2008 12:11 PM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Re: Who is who ? [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm french too :) And I was looking for these information several month ago. I wonder if we can do a group of french people, like the german group, and do some valuable work (i18n ?). Hello all, Just to point out that there are also Local groups in the wiki to allow local meetings of people interested in the project. http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenMoko_Local_Groups Since I'm also French, maybe if some more people fill these pages we could meet somewhere (in Paris ?) and dream about GTA02 ;) See you -- Phyce ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update
I thought I would combine a couple posts today. First an update on PVT, or production verification test. Phones are being sent to me from the first PVT run. Michael Shiloh will be back in Silicon valley next Tuesday, so he and I will test the samples and get them out to key partners. I want to check a couple things like using the Nokia batteries as spares and generic USB chargers before I send these samples out. Now, for the update on Products, and Pricing, 1. Products. Orginally the FreeRunner ( GTA02) was planned to come out in two packages. Basic and advanced, just like the Neo 1973. We killed that idea. It was a quick humane death. The problem was the GTA02 advanced unit would have been $650 USD. After seeing the response to Neo 1973, a huge response, we decided the best path was to lower the price, reward our early developers, and attract more developers. 2. Pricing We scrubbed the BOM ( bill of materials). We eliminated the Luxurious bits. Optimized the box like it was code. The first thing we got rid of was the lunchbox. It was cool, but it was expensive and heavy. Eliminating that was a sizeable cost savings. ( think shipping weight). Next we pulled out the debug board and made it a separate product. We priced it at $99 US. about 1 tenth what people would pay for similar capability. My goal was to get to a place where we could sell the FreeRunner at $399. USD. We did that. The FreeRunner will ship from Openmoko.com at $399. For early customers I'm looking at throwing in a few free things. More details later. The debug board will be available as a separate product for $99 USD. Many people wrote me mails asking if they could get a discount by buying more than one phone. Sometimes they were universities, sometimes a small business, sometimes a small group or club. For these people we created a 10Pack. instead of 399 per phone, we will charge 369 per phone. Over the next few days I will explain the next steps we go through and how the product will get distributed Steve ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update
Not sure I understand what you mean by final Inventory. The STANDARD box contents will be a Phone and Battery. I expect to add some other goodies, but only for the first few thousand buyers. Many people have voiced there opinion to me about what EXTRAS they would like in the box ( most of them legal) so, the team will make a decision. We won't please everybody, but it will be a rational decision, based on cost of the extra goodies, availability, and importance, and your feedback Steve -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Matt Manjos Sent: Friday, April 11, 2008 1:43 PM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update On Fri, Apr 11, 2008 at 12:50 PM, steve [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 2. Pricing We scrubbed the BOM ( bill of materials). We eliminated the Luxurious bits. Optimized the box like it was code. The first thing we got rid of was the lunchbox. It was cool, but it was expensive and heavy. Eliminating that was a sizeable cost savings. ( think shipping weight). So is there any news/update on the final inventory that will be in the box with the Freerunner? Also, great work on reaching this milestone and thanks for letting everyone know! Matt ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: next costumers location
Exactly why we decided to do the 10 pack! -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Pietro m0nt0 Montorfano Sent: Friday, April 11, 2008 2:39 PM To: List for OpenMoko community discussion Subject: next costumers location What about a nice wiki page telling if you want to buy a neo where do you live and an email to contact? This could be useful to take the advantage to buy 10 neo at a time and then giving it to each one who was accorded. Let me explain, i want a neo, i'm from italy, near milan, marco (usual name here) live in milan and wants a neo too, (and so on for 10 people)... So pietro, marco and each other put an order together to minimize the cost of the neo, so everyone can get the neo at a smaller price. This is only an idea and a usual thing that i do with my friends when buying something from US or other countries. If someone find this useful can set up such a page? i don't know how to use a wiki (yes, i know, i should learn how to use it but now i don't want to do that :D) Cya! Pietro ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Buying the lunchbox
Can you buy the actual lunchbox separately from us? No. My approach is this. If Openmoko buys a lunchbox and sells it to you, then we have to make A profit and charge you shipping and by the end of the day, the customer is NOT served very well. It's better to enable the customer to get the same thing for less by buying it direct! http://www.all-pelican-cases-4-less.com/detail_pelican_1120.html In short, it's cheaper for you to buy from people direct, than it is for me to buy from them and sell to you. Another way to look at it. Openmoko is going to focus on the areas where we add VALUE. Buying the lunchbox from Company A, and reselling it to you, is of marginal value. Plus one lunchbox doesn't fit ALL. If you want or need a secure carrying case, then go to the guys Who are expert in that and you will end up with a better deal all around. The exact case you need. A cheaper price, and openmoko can focus on open source hardware and software. Steve -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of ramsesoriginal Sent: Saturday, April 12, 2008 6:13 AM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update Thats great news! Just a quick question: will it be possible to buy the lunchbox as an own product? On Sat, Apr 12, 2008 at 1:51 PM, Shawn [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks Steve for the update. I have my money all saved up and ready! . . .Shawn - Original Message From: steve [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: List for Openmoko community discussion community@lists.openmoko.org Sent: Friday, April 11, 2008 10:50:40 AM Subject: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update I thought I would combine a couple posts today. First an update on PVT, or production verification test. Phones are being sent to me from the first PVT run. Michael Shiloh will be back in Silicon valley next Tuesday, so he and I will test the samples and get them out to key partners. I want to check a couple things like using the Nokia batteries as spares and generic USB chargers before I send these samples out. Now, for the update on Products, and Pricing, 1. Products. Orginally the FreeRunner ( GTA02) was planned to come out in two packages. Basic and advanced, just like the Neo 1973. We killed that idea. It was a quick humane death. The problem was the GTA02 advanced unit would have been $650 USD. After seeing the response to Neo 1973, a huge response, we decided the best path was to lower the price, reward our early developers, and attract more developers. 2. Pricing We scrubbed the BOM ( bill of materials). We eliminated the Luxurious bits. Optimized the box like it was code. The first thing we got rid of was the lunchbox. It was cool, but it was expensive and heavy. Eliminating that was a sizeable cost savings. ( think shipping weight). Next we pulled out the debug board and made it a separate product. We priced it at $99 US. about 1 tenth what people would pay for similar capability. My goal was to get to a place where we could sell the FreeRunner at $399. USD. We did that. The FreeRunner will ship from Openmoko.com at $399. For early customers I'm looking at throwing in a few free things. More details later. The debug board will be available as a separate product for $99 USD. Many people wrote me mails asking if they could get a discount by buying more than one phone. Sometimes they were universities, sometimes a small business, sometimes a small group or club. For these people we created a 10Pack. instead of 399 per phone, we will charge 369 per phone. Over the next few days I will explain the next steps we go through and how the product will get distributed Steve ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- My corner of the web: http://blog.ramsesoriginal.org ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update
Well, My goal is to open the accessory business. Far too often companies take a standard accessory product And make minor changes that require the customer to go back to them for replacements. So, we are pushing EVERYTHING in the direction of being open. It's a culture change. Like Opening the CAD files. So, that is the direction I am working toward. Open Engineering. Open Marketing. Open Sales. These culture changes take time. But from Sean on down we are committed to move forward with them. Steve -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michele Renda Sent: Saturday, April 12, 2008 2:37 PM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update Hi Steve Thank you for the update. I think you (you all from openmoko) worked very well, and I am happy to know these update. According me was a good idea to remove some accessories to cut off the price: a lot of person, can not to have too much money to buy for something that still they don't know, so I think it is good to interest more persons / developer. Who need, can alway to buy the accessory he need. I am happy to tell to you that this evening I decided to buy a Freerunner, and I hope in a future to be able to produce something for the Openmoko comunity. Best regards Michele Renda ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: next costumers location
I'll get the dimensions on the 10 pack, but we have reduced the size of the individual box very much. If you want to guess at shipping, figure at 10 pack will weigh on the order of 3 Kilo, and use the dimensions Of the Neo 1973 to figure the total package size. The average of shipping a single phone from US to EU was about 80USD. By making the package smaller, Creating a 10 pack, I'll drop this Substantially. People can go check out the shipping by using The data above. This plan relies on one thing. People in the community coming together and ordering as a group. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Alexander Frøyseth Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 12:45 AM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Re: next costumers location I know I checked it out a couple of months ago, it will cost (from memory) about 500 NOK (81,98USD or 51,32€) per phone. But the fee is mainly going after weight. It are not cheap to live in Norway xD, or what flexd? Alexander Frøyseth flexd skrev: If ordering from the US (or anywhere really), would it be possible to have the package marked as a gift to evade taxes and such? Norwegian taxes are high, so we'll probably pay like half a phone extra _ Pietro m0nt0 Montorfano skrev: Erland Lewin ha scritto: 2008/4/13, Marco Trevisan (Treviño) [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Well, if you consider that you've to pay the shipping costs from Usa or Asia in 10 or more people, instead that as an alone buyer I think that you gain really more than 30$-8€ ;) Well, that is the key question now for us in the EU - I believe that FIC has said that they will have a distribution center in the EU, which should make the shipping much less expensive. The very high shipping cost in relation to the price of the phone I think was a problem with the GTA01... I'm very much looking forward to hearing about how FIC will solve the EU distribution, and how much the shipping will be in Europe on top of the $399 + VAT price, which I think is a very good price. I think that info would be in the next update from FIC. /Erland in Stockholm, Sweden Yes, you are right, i was thinking that buying a 10pack phone is always cheaper than buying a single phone due to the shipping costs. I'd like to know the eu price and if it's convenient to buy the phone in eu, else there are some services that you can subscribe for 10$ which give you an us address so you buy the phone and send them there, after that you pay the shiping cost from there to your nation, this can let you to not pay VAT, don't know how much it's legal but i'd like to get more info on this services because they can be very useful. Everything obviously is to see how much the eu phone costs due to the VAT and other taxes. So i have to get more info about this service but they exist so i think it should be a good deal to use them if in eu the phone will cost too much. Cya! Pietro ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update
There will be two products. Buy 1 OR buy 10. ( in 850 and 900 versions of course) So, if you wanted 11 you would buy a 10 +1. and yes, this is a always an issue in volume sales. I suspect when people get 10 committed community members to agree, they will place the order. Move fast. Get organized, get ready. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ben Burdette Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 9:03 AM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update Great news that things are getting so finalized. I have a question about the '10-pack'. I'm thinking about getting together a group order for my local LUG. Suppose we have 11 people interested? Is it more a 10-plus pack, or would that extra 1 phone have to be ordered at full 399 price? steve wrote: I thought I would combine a couple posts today. First an update on PVT, or production verification test. Phones are being sent to me from the first PVT run. Michael Shiloh will be back in Silicon valley next Tuesday, so he and I will test the samples and get them out to key partners. I want to check a couple things like using the Nokia batteries as spares and generic USB chargers before I send these samples out. Now, for the update on Products, and Pricing, 1. Products. Orginally the FreeRunner ( GTA02) was planned to come out in two packages. Basic and advanced, just like the Neo 1973. We killed that idea. It was a quick humane death. The problem was the GTA02 advanced unit would have been $650 USD. After seeing the response to Neo 1973, a huge response, we decided the best path was to lower the price, reward our early developers, and attract more developers. 2. Pricing We scrubbed the BOM ( bill of materials). We eliminated the Luxurious bits. Optimized the box like it was code. The first thing we got rid of was the lunchbox. It was cool, but it was expensive and heavy. Eliminating that was a sizeable cost savings. ( think shipping weight). Next we pulled out the debug board and made it a separate product. We priced it at $99 US. about 1 tenth what people would pay for similar capability. My goal was to get to a place where we could sell the FreeRunner at $399. USD. We did that. The FreeRunner will ship from Openmoko.com at $399. For early customers I'm looking at throwing in a few free things. More details later. The debug board will be available as a separate product for $99 USD. Many people wrote me mails asking if they could get a discount by buying more than one phone. Sometimes they were universities, sometimes a small business, sometimes a small group or club. For these people we created a 10Pack. instead of 399 per phone, we will charge 369 per phone. Over the next few days I will explain the next steps we go through and how the product will get distributed Steve ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update
Charger is on the list of goodies. So, yes there will be a charger in the box. Going forward, I think we as a community need to discuss these issues. 1. Do I supply a standard charger that follows the USB Spec. for example, A charger that you could buy anywhere. 2. Do I Supply a CLOSED charger that only my phone can recognize? For me. custom is closed. Our high current charger is custom.its closed. This decision is mirrored in the battery decision. So, I have one group of people asking be to supply them with expensive custom parts And another group of people asking for accessories they can buy from anybody. let me know what you think. My inclination is Open accessories. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Erland Lewin Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 10:23 AM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update 2008/4/13, steve [EMAIL PROTECTED]: The STANDARD box contents will be a Phone and Battery. I expect to add some other goodies, but only for the first few thousand buyers. There won't be a charger in the standard box? And I thought there was a custom charger allowing the Freerunner to charge at a high current? /Erland ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update
Shawn This is a very difficult issue. . Let me Nutshell it. 1. We have a custom charger that can fast charge the phone. 2. Standard usb chargers will work just fine. Some people want the custom charger and they want access to custom replacements Some people want the custom charger and they will live with a standard replacement Some people philosophically believe we shouldn't do custom chargers. So, I get to sort through this. But to begin with the early adopters, the developers, Who buy the phone first, will get a fast charger. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Shawn Rutledge Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 1:11 PM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update On Sun, Apr 13, 2008 at 9:44 AM, steve [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The STANDARD box contents will be a Phone and Battery. I expect to add some other goodies, but only for the first few thousand buyers. If the phone can be charged with a Motorola charger, I'm personally fine with saving some money and you leaving it out of the box. (And the chargers can be had cheaply on ebay etc.) But if it requires a special one then I would want to see the charger included. And a car charger must be made available, too. A desktop charger would be nice to have but I guess the Nokia one will work, right? Requiring the phone to be charged only from a PC is not practical when you expect this phone to be for (advanced) users too, not just developers, right? Likewise if the connector is to be something other than mini-usb, including a USB cable might be a good idea. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update
Stylus is of course on the goodie list. Things I will give away to the first few thousand buyers. If you like the stylus approach, the one we have is great. I know its great because at every trade show when I leave it on the table somebody snatches it! _ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Steven Le Roux Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 11:59 AM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update and no more stylus ? On Sun, Apr 13, 2008 at 7:22 PM, Erland Lewin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 2008/4/13, steve [EMAIL PROTECTED]: The STANDARD box contents will be a Phone and Battery. I expect to add some other goodies, but only for the first few thousand buyers. There won't be a charger in the standard box? And I thought there was a custom charger allowing the Freerunner to charge at a high current? /Erland ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- Steven Le Roux Jabber-ID : [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: next costumers location
That will be the subject of my next post. It's somewhat complicated With a host of side issues. I look at it like debugging code. I try to fix One issue at a time. Then test my fix. Then move onto the next problem and fix that. So, We had to prioritize issues. First: get a good product line up, simplify the product line, address the key concerns DRIVE THE PRICE DOWN, and involve more developers. A. We killed the orange colored phone. May it rest in peace. B. We got rid of the base versus advanced. We have One Product. With developers goodies offered on the side. C. We are in the process ( working hard) to take excessive stuff out of the box. D. We are working to make all accessories non custom products. Second: Work the logistics of getting products to people. This process is as hard as building phones. Trust me. For Neo 1973 we utilized one distributon center. FICA in the USA. Our goal is to add A HUB In Europe. The thought was this. Shipping to a HUB in Europe and then having that HUB service Europe Would be CHEAPER than shipping to the US and having the US serve Europe. Seemed logical. That was wrong. So. I'm going to Finish the first goal. Get the line up solid. Start shipping that lineup. Then I will go optimize the distribution question. I'll have more to say about this, but for now, I'm just waiting to get my samples. PVTs are looking good. I'll let you know what Michael and I think when we see them. Then I'l have an update on Software. Many things to talk about there. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Erland Lewin Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 12:59 AM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Re: next costumers location 2008/4/13, Marco Trevisan (Treviño) [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Well, if you consider that you've to pay the shipping costs from Usa or Asia in 10 or more people, instead that as an alone buyer I think that you gain really more than 30$-8€ ;) Well, that is the key question now for us in the EU - I believe that FIC has said that they will have a distribution center in the EU, which should make the shipping much less expensive. The very high shipping cost in relation to the price of the phone I think was a problem with the GTA01... I'm very much looking forward to hearing about how FIC will solve the EU distribution, and how much the shipping will be in Europe on top of the $399 + VAT price, which I think is a very good price. I think that info would be in the next update from FIC. /Erland in Stockholm, Sweden ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update
of course it has all the goodies. _ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Steven Le Roux Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 5:06 PM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update Thank you Steve for precisions. One more question about the 10 pack... As you can see, we are organizing to get 10pack in order to drive down the shipping cost... but is this pack will contain the same accessories than a 1 neo pack ? (charger, stylus, other goodies...). I mean if there is only 30$ difference between both, (plus shipping cost) but less all goodies, I am not sure it's more interesting to get it inner 10 neo's pack... thx On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 1:13 AM, steve [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There will be two products. Buy 1 OR buy 10. ( in 850 and 900 versions of course) So, if you wanted 11 you would buy a 10 +1. and yes, this is a always an issue in volume sales. I suspect when people get 10 committed community members to agree, they will place the order. Move fast. Get organized, get ready. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ben Burdette Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 9:03 AM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update Great news that things are getting so finalized. I have a question about the '10-pack'. I'm thinking about getting together a group order for my local LUG. Suppose we have 11 people interested? Is it more a 10-plus pack, or would that extra 1 phone have to be ordered at full 399 price? steve wrote: I thought I would combine a couple posts today. First an update on PVT, or production verification test. Phones are being sent to me from the first PVT run. Michael Shiloh will be back in Silicon valley next Tuesday, so he and I will test the samples and get them out to key partners. I want to check a couple things like using the Nokia batteries as spares and generic USB chargers before I send these samples out. Now, for the update on Products, and Pricing, 1. Products. Orginally the FreeRunner ( GTA02) was planned to come out in two packages. Basic and advanced, just like the Neo 1973. We killed that idea. It was a quick humane death. The problem was the GTA02 advanced unit would have been $650 USD. After seeing the response to Neo 1973, a huge response, we decided the best path was to lower the price, reward our early developers, and attract more developers. 2. Pricing We scrubbed the BOM ( bill of materials). We eliminated the Luxurious bits. Optimized the box like it was code. The first thing we got rid of was the lunchbox. It was cool, but it was expensive and heavy. Eliminating that was a sizeable cost savings. ( think shipping weight). Next we pulled out the debug board and made it a separate product. We priced it at $99 US. about 1 tenth what people would pay for similar capability. My goal was to get to a place where we could sell the FreeRunner at $399. USD. We did that. The FreeRunner will ship from Openmoko.com at $399. For early customers I'm looking at throwing in a few free things. More details later. The debug board will be available as a separate product for $99 USD. Many people wrote me mails asking if they could get a discount by buying more than one phone. Sometimes they were universities, sometimes a small business, sometimes a small group or club. For these people we created a 10Pack. instead of 399 per phone, we will charge 369 per phone. Over the next few days I will explain the next steps we go through and how the product will get distributed Steve ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- Steven Le Roux Jabber-ID : [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update
Ha, Dont go encouraging me with wacky ideas I like. _ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of JW Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 7:27 PM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update But is the software going to depend on a stylus? If so, it should be made very clear when purchasing that the customer will need to get one. Even better would be to include a simple cheap one, it would be better then nothing. i think we should include a ten-pack of cocktail sticks plus a groovy small rubber stick holder on the back of the phone.disposable styli... works for me... i am always losing them anyway... JW ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update
Sorry, I want to keep things as simple as possible for our shipping folks. So, that's the current plan. I'll make rational adjustments as time goes forward. Think about the 10 pack as a bulk product. That's what it is. Steve -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Andy Powell Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 11:30 PM To: community@lists.openmoko.org Subject: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update On Monday 14 April 2008 00:13, steve wrote: There will be two products. Buy 1 OR buy 10. ( in 850 and 900 versions of course) This seems like an odd decision to me, is it just a limitation of the store software you are using? Even OS Commerce can handle price breaks. The same thing happens at 15, 19 ? So, if you wanted 11 you would buy a 10 +1. and yes, this is a always an issue in volume sales. Sorry but 10+1 is never an issue in volume sales because no one does it like that. It's 10+ 100+ 1000+ etc... You don't treat 11 any different from 10 in pricing terms. -- Andy / ScaredyCat ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update
yes, I am trying to balance all of these issues and keep the ordering process and fulfillment process simplified. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Robin Paulson Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 11:33 PM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update 2008/4/14 Dirk Deimeke [EMAIL PROTECTED]: let me know what you think. My inclination is Open accessories. I agree to Open accessories. Thinks I would like to see in the box: - Charger - USB-Cable - Headset I also would like to have - may be separately: - Stylus - Pouch - MicroSD maybe i'm wrong, but i can't see om being able to source microsd cards at a competitive price. e.g. i can walk down the road and get 8gb for 80usd. even if they can source the cards cheaply, i'd rather not have the price pushed up for the sake of including one, which may or may not be a useful size for me. there's also warranties; if something other than the handset breaks, i want to be able to take it down the road to get it fixed/replaced if possible, not have to post if off and wait for a replacement to come back the other items may be more attractive, but only if they're really necessary and don't put up the price for more than i can get them at dick smiths, or are unique to the neo personally, i'd want: *a modified charger (if one is made) *a pouch included, and that's it anything else, including a generic charger, i'd prefer to source myself as and if it's needed, to keep the cost low ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update
Good question. I have copied Michael Shiloh on this mail. He's on travel now. If I tried to answer your question I would just beclown myself. So, Michael, can you recap the charger technical details. perhaps an update on the Wiki. Charger FAQS. etc. _ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Erland Lewin Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 11:38 PM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update 2008/4/14, steve [EMAIL PROTECTED]: 1. We have a custom charger that can fast charge the phone. 2. Standard usb chargers will work just fine. How long will charging the phone take with the fast charger vs. a normal charger? If a standard USB charger will take on the order of 12 hours (1200 mAh battery / 100 mA, probably more due 100% efficiency), that is really borderline of what sounds acceptable, if an overnight charge won't be enough to fully charge the phone. I fully sympathise and agree with using easily accessible hardware, but if standard chargers take this long, perhaps the next hardware generation should use something like easily available Nokia chargers or similar. If it were possible to inexpensively construct some adapter cable to existing commodity chargers to charge the Freerunner at 1 amp, that would of course be an option too. I realize this wouldn't be ready for the upcoming developer release. /Erland ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update
Ok, Well I apologize for killing the orange/white model. When I get to place where I can figure what colors everyone wants and in what ratios, then I can easily add colors. For now, folks are focused on the innards and not the cosmetics. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of ian douglas Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 11:38 PM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update Robin Paulson wrote: 2008/4/14 Dirk Deimeke [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I also would like to have - may be separately: - Stylus personally, i'd want: *a modified charger (if one is made) *a pouch included, and that's it I think for a phone that's heavily touch-based, a stylus is a must-have. Doesn't even need to be the fancy one that shipped with the Neo (and I'm sad I can't buy another orange/white model like my GTA01 was but oh well), but include *something*. -id ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update
Thanks Erland,
I'm getting more info on the audio performance. I'll have samples arrive
in a couple of days and test the audio myself.
Bass for music was reported as a potential weakspot. So, I have to listen to
it. Then I have to make my input.
WRT the big CAP. I don't track the passive component changes on the board.
I'm marketing. I track the performance.
So, I'll have a listen and then make my input before we go ahead.
_
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Erland Lewin
Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 11:50 PM
To: List for Openmoko community discussion
Subject: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update
Regarding a headset, how easy will it be to get a third party (wired,
non-bluetooth) headset with decent sound for the Freerunner?
I believe there was some discussion on the kernel list about impedances,
which made it sound like many standard headsets would not give good audio,
because they have too low an impedance IIRC. I would hate to have a
situation where I would have to buy and discard many simpler headsets to
find one with a suitable impedance.
I reiterate that I am all for OpenMoko bundling 'commodity' items, but the
key thing is that standard items really do work well.
By the way, I guess the big capacitor that was needed to get good bass audio
output ('Can
http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/openmoko-kernel/2008-April/002112.html
we fix the audio for A5/A6/A7?' discussion on kernel list again) won't make
it into the Freerunner mass production?
___
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RE: Charger? (was: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update)
Thanks Lowell. The phone will ship with a wall charger. _ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lowell Higley Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 12:58 AM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Re: Charger? (was: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update) I think I'm going to have to completely disagree on this one. I RARELY plug anything into a computer to simply charge it. I'd venture almost never. The idea that I HAVE to plug a device into a computer to charge it is completely ridiculous to me. I'd bet my experience as a product marketer that consumers would feel similarly. My expectation of a cell phone (based on precedent) is that I get a wall charger with my phone. Even Apple didn't break this precedent with the iPhone. You can plug it into a cradle (connecting to a system), a wall charger, or a vehicle accessory charger. That being said, I don't know whether this custom charger is just a modified USB cable or an actual wall charger. Again, based on precedent, my expectation was that it was a wall charger. Thinking about it now I realize that perhaps that was not a good assumption to make. Just my 4 1/2 cents. On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 12:25 AM, Marcus Bauer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, 2008-04-14 at 08:38 +0200, Erland Lewin wrote: 2008/4/14, steve [EMAIL PROTECTED]: 1. We have a custom charger that can fast charge the phone. 2. Standard usb chargers will work just fine. How long will charging the phone take with the fast charger vs. a normal charger? If a standard USB charger will take on the order of 12 hours (1200 mAh battery / 100 mA, probably more due 100% efficiency), that is really borderline of what sounds acceptable, if an overnight charge won't be enough to fully charge the phone. There have been plenty of discussions about this on the lists and the great news is that the Neo can use any USB charger. I have a Neo 1973 and use it on a daily basis. The great thing is that you don't need any special charger, you can use any $5 charger and it works. There is a small program out there that can pop up a dialog whenever it sees the Neo only charging at 100mA and asking if you want to draw 500mA. It really is a non issue. I have a couple of those chargers for home/office/car/travel and they all work and charge plenty of other devices too. IMHO a great design decision to use USB for charging. Finally there is an end coming to have all these different chargers around. So I just can second Steve: 2. Standard usb chargers will work just fine. Marcus ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update
Ok thanks dirk. Frankly, some people thought the pouch sucked. If I ship a pouch, you have no choice. you get my pouch. My opinion: it's a phone sock. Ideally I would love to have the community develop this accessory if they want it. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dirk Deimeke Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 1:56 AM To: community@lists.openmoko.org Subject: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update Hi, I spoke to my wife (typical end user). She expects a - computer independent charger - headset - pouch Best regards Dirk ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update
I think Michael and I were supposed to test the 8GB version. Actually Michael tests and I say wow and great and then do the happy dance. He'll be back soon. We will revert on this. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Marco Trevisan (Treviño) Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 4:30 AM To: community@lists.openmoko.org Subject: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update Ivo Anjo wrote: Finally, the miniSD card, DEFINITELY leave it off, unless you get a really really really good deal, because you can buy very high-capacity nowadays, so it doesn't make much sense to pay for 512mb or such on the neo, and then buy a multi-gb one (I am definitely getting one of those myself). I agree, I'll buy one soon too, but what's the maximum capacity actually supported (I've seen the wiki, but there are no so much tests)? I'd like to buy an 8Gb Mini-SD card... -- Treviño's World - Life and Linux http://www.3v1n0.net/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update
Haha. I remember that. I use chopsticks and squizzle sticks. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael Shiloh Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 5:51 AM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update I use toothpicks. Free in most restaurants, every Swiss army knife has one, and impossible to accidentally shine the laser into your eye. :-) steve wrote: Ha, Dont go encouraging me with wacky ideas I like. *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *JW *Sent:* Sunday, April 13, 2008 7:27 PM *To:* List for Openmoko community discussion *Subject:* Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update But is the software going to depend on a stylus? If so, it should be made very clear when purchasing that the customer will need to get one. Even better would be to include a simple cheap one, it would be better then nothing. i think we should include a ten-pack of cocktail sticks plus a groovy small rubber stick holder on the back of the phone.disposable styli... works for me... i am always losing them anyway... JW ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: FreeRunner Pricing, cc purchase options
I've got the same question into the web shop team. _ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Crane, Matthew Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 6:20 AM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: RE: FreeRunner Pricing, cc purchase options Can I ask that the US product website support either PayPal or Amex in addition to MC/Visa? Thanks, Matt _ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of steve Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 7:13 PM To: 'List for Openmoko community discussion' Subject: RE: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update Stylus is of course on the goodie list. Things I will give away to the first few thousand buyers. If you like the stylus approach, the one we have is great. I know its great because at every trade show when I leave it on the table somebody snatches it! _ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Steven Le Roux Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 11:59 AM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update and no more stylus ? On Sun, Apr 13, 2008 at 7:22 PM, Erland Lewin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 2008/4/13, steve [EMAIL PROTECTED]: The STANDARD box contents will be a Phone and Battery. I expect to add some other goodies, but only for the first few thousand buyers. There won't be a charger in the standard box? And I thought there was a custom charger allowing the Freerunner to charge at a high current? /Erland ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- Steven Le Roux Jabber-ID : [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: I just want a free phone
Thank you Breakable. We struggle long and hard with this question. _ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Breakable Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 7:20 AM To: community@lists.openmoko.org Subject: I just want a free phone Hi there, I read some discussions about the accessories to GTA02. In my humble opinion the community should not expect the OpenMoko Inc to provide all the accessories, as soon as the phone is released, especially for the non-consumer version yet. For now i would be happy to get the phone itself, and would bare with the inconvienience of searching for accessories in ebay, or anywhere else. I hope the communyti will start building and documenting whatever accesories are available. It might take some time, but the FreeRunner will popup in the local phone shops after a while, and then I would expect to have a full range of compatible accesories avalable locally. Regards, Breakable ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update
USB cable will be in the goodies. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jay Vaughan Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 7:24 AM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update It is not necessary to modify a cable to fast charge the device. All that is needed is something like [1] (which costs US$3) and the software from [2] and you have fast charging without modifying a cable or relying upon the folks from OpenMoko to get into the accessory business. I want this cable not for charging, but for using USB devices with the Freerunner / neo1973 .. so in that instance, it shouldn't be included? I feel its a bit dodgy expecting customers to hack up their own cable to use USB devices - unless there is a cable that can be purchased out there already that will give us this capability? ; -- Jay Vaughan ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: PVT Update.
Ok. I'm talking about the software that will go on the phone when it is built, and then the downloads that will be available. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Marco Trevisan (Treviño) Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 7:48 AM To: community@lists.openmoko.org Subject: Re: PVT Update. steve wrote: 1. A final release of software to the factory. Bug Fixing will go on after this, but the image we commit is one we will stick with for a while. Don't ask me what a while is. I'll talk about the software release late Next week and let you all know what made it into the first release and what will come later. This point isn't so clear to me: what you mean for release of software? Are you developing a new release of the software on closed doors and you'll release it soon? Or maybe are you only talking about testing kernel and other low-level softwares? So, short version: design is verified. Hardware is production worthy. Yeild results are good. This is a really happy news btw...! -- Treviño's World - Life and Linux http://www.3v1n0.net/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update
Wow, Kevin, that is really enlightening for me. I've never heard anyone talk about why they like the pouch. I was kinda thinking about making things like the pouch a give away at trade shows and on the community list. Not for everybody, but for folks who were contributers. I would rather give 5K pouches to community members who posted great ideas, than ship 100,000 to people and have 95000 end up in the trash bin. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kevin Zuber Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 7:48 AM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update I totally agree with you, Marco! But I would like to add two important things: -The Pouch is more important than needed for me, it's essential. It will always be there, when I'm not using it, I also don't want a no-name pouch, because I like that one with the word openmoko on it, because it is simply great! I also like this neoprene-outfit. -The MicroSD is less than optional, because here in germany (don't know about other countries) you get an xxSD card really everywhere for just a few euros. Another point is, that I can buy that size I want to buy (depends on the money I would like to spend on it). Two notices for optional gadgets: -Lanyard: I don't think one with openmoko on it is a standard part, and I like it :) (I also think it's a really cheap but great part) -Headset: Every ones ears are other ears: small, big... and because of the standard port every headset should work. I also thought that the openmoko (GTA01) headset has no mic. Correct me if I'm wrong. Kevin Am Montag, den 14.04.2008, 02:35 +0200 schrieb Marco Trevisan (Treviño): steve ha scritto: Many people have voiced there opinion to me about what EXTRAS they would like in the box ( most of them legal) so, the team will make a decision. We won't please everybody, but it will be a rational decision, based on cost of the extra goodies, availability, and importance, and your feedback I do think that the needed goodies to have a market-ready device are: - AC Charger (better if custom) - Headset (with mic?) - Pouch (well, I figure our Freerunner will be there most of the time!) - Stylus Optional: - MicroSD - USB Cable - Lanyard ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update
USB cable is in. _ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Sebastian Billaudelle Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 8:41 AM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update My opinion: + USB-cable is essentially! I think the nice FreeRunner won't look nice with a self-made cable... + pouch + lanyard (this is something Moko-specific like the pouch...) - no stylus - no SD-card (1/2 GByte are too small, more are too expensive) - no headset (some want big ones, others small ones...) cheers Sebastian Am Montag, den 14.04.2008, 16:48 +0200 schrieb Kevin Zuber: I totally agree with you, Marco! But I would like to add two important things: -The Pouch is more important than needed for me, it's essential. It will always be there, when I'm not using it, I also don't want a no-name pouch, because I like that one with the word openmoko on it, because it is simply great! I also like this neoprene-outfit. -The MicroSD is less than optional, because here in germany (don't know about other countries) you get an xxSD card really everywhere for just a few euros. Another point is, that I can buy that size I want to buy (depends on the money I would like to spend on it). Two notices for optional gadgets: -Lanyard: I don't think one with openmoko on it is a standard part, and I like it :) (I also think it's a really cheap but great part) -Headset: Every ones ears are other ears: small, big... and because of the standard port every headset should work. I also thought that the openmoko (GTA01) headset has no mic. Correct me if I'm wrong. Kevin Am Montag, den 14.04.2008, 02:35 +0200 schrieb Marco Trevisan (Treviño): steve ha scritto: Many people have voiced there opinion to me about what EXTRAS they would like in the box ( most of them legal) so, the team will make a decision. We won't please everybody, but it will be a rational decision, based on cost of the extra goodies, availability, and importance, and your feedback I do think that the needed goodies to have a market-ready device are: - AC Charger (better if custom) - Headset (with mic?) - Pouch (well, I figure our Freerunner will be there most of the time!) - Stylus Optional: - MicroSD - USB Cable - Lanyard ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community Ich aktzeptiere keine MS Office Dokumente, weil sie 1. kein ISO Standard sind, 2. bewusst schlecht entwickelt sind und 3. nicht für alle zugänglich sind! Benutze bitte das Open Document Format - jeder kann es kostenlos öffnen - auch noch in tausenden von Jahren! ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: What should be included in packaging (was: Re: FreeRunnerPricing and PVT update)
Probably need to set up a wiki of stuff like this. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Marcus Bauer Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 9:47 AM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Re: What should be included in packaging (was: Re: FreeRunnerPricing and PVT update) On Mon, 2008-04-14 at 10:33 -0500, Bobby Martin wrote: I lost the stylus (it's way too cool; if you forget it at a restaurant or something, you don't get a call asking if you want it back :-) They are $3 a piece w/ shipping included if you take ten. For example this one here: http://cgi.ebay.com/10-x-4in1-Red-LASER-Pointer-LED-Torch-PDA-Stylus-PEN_W0Q QitemZ220223455957QQihZ012QQ No need to buy another Neo to get a new pen ;-) ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: PVT Update.
ya, I was telling somebody earlier I worked on an experimental plane for 5 years: we built 2. 500 Million per copy. we flew them for a little while. Then they took one. Shook it to bits; broke its back; and tore its wings off. bastards. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ortwin Regel Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 11:55 AM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Re: PVT Update. The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. Still, poor Freerunners... :'( On 4/14/08, Michele Renda [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: One minute of silence for the dead freerunner, death to ensure a product free of defects :) 2008/4/14, steve [EMAIL PROTECTED]: The last of DVT testing is I think complete. These are destructive tests. Where we try to break the phone. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update
Sorry about the phone sock thing, I had other metaphors at my disposal. But I restrained myself. _ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Sebastian Billaudelle Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 12:58 PM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: RE: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update How to develop such a phone sock? OK, my mother is quite good at knitting, but... ;-) I could post some design proposals... cheers Sebastian P.S.: I asked my mother and some neighbours: - charger - pouch - lanyard nothing else... Am Montag, den 14.04.2008, 12:36 -0700 schrieb steve: Ok thanks dirk. Frankly, some people thought the pouch sucked. If I ship a pouch, you have no choice. you get my pouch. My opinion: it's a phone sock. Ideally I would love to have the community develop this accessory if they want it. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dirk Deimeke Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 1:56 AM To: community@lists.openmoko.org Subject: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update Hi, I spoke to my wife (typical end user). She expects a - computer independent charger - headset - pouch Best regards Dirk ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community Ich aktzeptiere keine MS Office Dokumente, weil sie 1. kein ISO Standard sind, 2. bewusst schlecht entwickelt sind und 3. nicht für alle zugänglich sind! Benutze bitte das Open Document Format - jeder kann es kostenlos öffnen - auch noch in tausenden von Jahren! ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update
When I did my first MP3 in Aluminum I ran out and had it anodized gold! I was lucky to find a place that was set up to do gold. Most are set up for clear, black, red and blue. Guy didn't even charge me. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael Shiloh Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 1:33 PM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update My daughter requests pink. Maybe the only one. I suggest we make them all white and include a pack of magic markers, so you can color them any color you wish, or decorate to your heart's content. Half jokingly, Michael steve wrote: Ok, Well I apologize for killing the orange/white model. When I get to place where I can figure what colors everyone wants and in what ratios, then I can easily add colors. For now, folks are focused on the innards and not the cosmetics. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of ian douglas Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 11:38 PM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update Robin Paulson wrote: 2008/4/14 Dirk Deimeke [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I also would like to have - may be separately: - Stylus personally, i'd want: *a modified charger (if one is made) *a pouch included, and that's it I think for a phone that's heavily touch-based, a stylus is a must-have. Doesn't even need to be the fancy one that shipped with the Neo (and I'm sad I can't buy another orange/white model like my GTA01 was but oh well), but include *something*. -id ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
DHL has a package for me!
My samples arrived! I'm in customs hell. They want me to prove I am an american. So I have to send them a copy of My social security card or my taxes. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: PVT Update.
Ha, I've talked to Ninja about doing a Vid of the first production build. The destructive test would also be a kewl thing. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of James Olney Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 2:08 AM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Re: PVT Update. maybe mokoninja could get behind the scenes and snap some pics or vids.. On 15/04/2008, nickd [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: hi first post :) i don't suppose as part of the open nature of the production that the few sick people (myself included) in the community could see possibly some videos of the testing? namely the destructive tests? i've learnt how to use technology by breaking it and would like to see the snuf videos if possible -nick steve wrote: ya, I was telling somebody earlier I worked on an experimental plane for 5 years: we built 2. 500 Million per copy. we flew them for a little while. Then they took one. Shook it to bits; broke its back; and tore its wings off. bastards. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ortwin Regel Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 11:55 AM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Re: PVT Update. The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. Still, poor Freerunners... :'( On 4/14/08, Michele Renda [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: One minute of silence for the dead freerunner, death to ensure a product free of defects :) 2008/4/14, steve [EMAIL PROTECTED]: The last of DVT testing is I think complete. These are destructive tests. Where we try to break the phone. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- ___ Tel: 00447809457487 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] www: http://www.happyjames.co.uk ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: oredring the Freerunner as an research item
I'll look into it _ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Flemming Richter Mikkelsen Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 5:18 AM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: oredring the Freerunner as an research item I was wondering if it would be possible to mark the shipment as research items. Since it is developer editions and not an end user product, I think it makes sence. Can anyone from Openmoko confirm this? Here in Norway, we can save some money if this is done. (This requires Openmoko to send a paper to the Norwegian custom, informing that this is research items) Best regards, Flemming Richter Mikkelsen -- Please don't send me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html Join the FSF as an Associate Member at: URL:http://www.fsf.org/register_form?referrer=5774 ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: oredring the Freerunner as an research item
i'll look into it, but this country by country selective processing is defeating the purpose. _ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Flemming Richter Mikkelsen Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 6:02 AM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Re: oredring the Freerunner as an research item On 4/15/08, Flemming Richter Mikkelsen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I was wondering if it would be possible to mark the shipment as research items. Since it is developer editions and not an end user product, I think it makes sence. Can anyone from Openmoko confirm this? Here in Norway, we can save some money if this is done. (This requires Openmoko to send a paper to the Norwegian custom, informing that this is research items) I forgot to mention that we called to the Norwegian tax office to confirm this. They said it was not any problem -- Please don't send me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html Join the FSF as an Associate Member at: URL:http://www.fsf.org/register_form?referrer=5774 ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: PVT Update.
It's gallows humor. If you have ever watched your hard work Undergo destructive test, you don't know whether to laugh or cry. So, you try to do a little of both. I've asked that we do some kind of video when we go to Mass Pro. I never thought of doing a Video of destructive test, but I think it's a cool idea. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Matt Manjos Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 6:08 AM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Re: PVT Update. Calling it a snuff video is a little disturbing, but I too would like to see some behind the scenes videos of production. I guess that in the end, one electronics fabrication plant is just like every other plant, but some testing videos would be cool to see. On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 5:08 AM, James Olney [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: maybe mokoninja could get behind the scenes and snap some pics or vids.. On 15/04/2008, nickd [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: hi first post :) i don't suppose as part of the open nature of the production that the few sick people (myself included) in the community could see possibly some videos of the testing? namely the destructive tests? i've learnt how to use technology by breaking it and would like to see the snuf videos if possible -nick steve wrote: ya, I was telling somebody earlier I worked on an experimental plane for 5 years: we built 2. 500 Million per copy. we flew them for a little while. Then they took one. Shook it to bits; broke its back; and tore its wings off. bastards. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ortwin RegelSent: Monday, April 14, 2008 11:55 AMTo: List for Openmoko community discussionSubject: Re: PVT Update. The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. Still, poor Freerunners... :'( On 4/14/08, Michele Renda [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: One minute of silence for the dead freerunner, death to ensure a product free of defects :) 2008/4/14, steve [EMAIL PROTECTED]: The last of DVT testing is I think complete. These are destructive tests. Where we try to break the phone. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- ___ Tel: 00447809457487 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] www: http://www.happyjames.co.uk ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update
The Happy dance http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypnlOJjC368 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Samblas Martinez Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 6:17 AM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: RE: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update I wanna see a video of that happy dance xD --- steve [EMAIL PROTECTED] escribió: I think Michael and I were supposed to test the 8GB version. Actually Michael tests and I say wow and great and then do the happy dance. He'll be back soon. We will revert on this. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Marco Trevisan (Treviño) Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 4:30 AM To: community@lists.openmoko.org Subject: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update Ivo Anjo wrote: Finally, the miniSD card, DEFINITELY leave it off, unless you get a really really really good deal, because you can buy very high-capacity nowadays, so it doesn't make much sense to pay for 512mb or such on the neo, and then buy a multi-gb one (I am definitely getting one of those myself). I agree, I'll buy one soon too, but what's the maximum capacity actually supported (I've seen the wiki, but there are no so much tests)? I'd like to buy an 8Gb Mini-SD card... -- Treviño's World - Life and Linux http://www.3v1n0.net/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community __ Tu correo también desde el móvil. Descárgate gratis Yahoo! Go. http://es.mobile.yahoo.com ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: Trading in €uros ?
It's much more complex than that. We will quote in USD. We buy components in other currencies, so as currency changes, the value of what we hold changes as a function of currency fluctuations. At this stage of the game, the currency we quote in is a minor issue. That said , the dollar sucks. Somebody has to. _ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Steven Le Roux Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 7:53 AM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Re: Trading in €uros ? No matter how is the $, I think FIC is thinking in $, not un €, so if the $ falls, it's good for us, and nothing change for FIC regardly the $ previsions... I guess On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 4:29 PM, Kevin Dean [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The figure in USD is as innacurate as anything else. You're not actually paying $399 USD, you're paying the number of New Taiwan Dollars that can be exchanged for $399 USD. Rebasing the price in ANY currency means absolutely nothing since (assuming you aren't paying exchange premiums) it's the same price. Of course, they could say 399 Euros, in which case it would be getting more expensive for EVERYONE. On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 8:55 AM, Didier Raboud [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Didier Raboud wrote: Hi, Just wondering. With the actual fall of the U$D, why not setting the Neo's prices in €uros ? (Which is actually pretty strong.) (or ¥ens, ...) This would imply a rising price (with time) for American customers instead of a falling one for European ones. Actually, the actual situation is good for me if the U$D continues to go down : my future Neo will cost less to me. :) Regards, OdyX, aka Didier Raboud Just to precise my thoughts... The idea is not to have a rise of the price for American customers, but to protect the value of the future Neo against a fall of the U$D. If the U$D continues to fall, the real income back to FIC will fall with time. FIC will then have to augment its prices which is not desirable... Well... I'm not that much in Finance, so don't give my thoughts too much value. Regards, Didier ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- Steven Le Roux Jabber-ID : [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: DHL has a package for me!
It was funny, the lady at Customs called and said, you sound like an american I could not resist instantly imitating my swedish grandmother. Probably not to bright on my part, but I was annoyed. Anyway, I prezented my papers. FreeRunner is out of customs jail. Customs Person: These are samples; do they work? Annoyed Moshpit: No, they are currently unemployed -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Alexander Frøyseth Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 9:07 AM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Re: DHL has a package for me! Haha But ARE you an american?? hmm Perhaps you are an alien xD Alexander Frøyseth steve skrev: My samples arrived! I'm in customs hell. They want me to prove I am an american. So I have to send them a copy of My social security card or my taxes. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update
In a harlequin pattern no doubt. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ortwin Regel Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 9:10 AM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update I do! Well, actually I probably won't get a Freerunner as I have a 1973 and limited amounts of money. However, I'd like my next phone to be in black with pink parts. B) Even more appreciated would be lime green and pink but I'm probably the only person in the world who wants that... Ortwin On 4/15/08, Bastian Muck [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Has somebody eaten a clown this morning at breakfast? ;-) Of course noone really wants a pink freerunner, does someone? steve schrieb: | When I did my first MP3 in Aluminum I ran out and had it anodized gold! | I was lucky to find a place that was set up to do gold. Most are set | up for clear, black, red and blue. Guy didn't even charge me. | | | | | -Original Message- | From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael | Shiloh | Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 1:33 PM | To: List for Openmoko community discussion | Subject: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update | | My daughter requests pink. | | Maybe the only one. | | I suggest we make them all white and include a pack of magic | markers, so you can color them any color you wish, or decorate to | your heart's content. | | Half jokingly, | Michael | | steve wrote: | Ok, | | Well I apologize for killing the orange/white model. When I get | to place where I can figure what colors everyone wants and in what | ratios, then I can easily add colors. For now, folks are focused on | the innards and not the cosmetics. | | | | | -Original Message- | From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of ian | douglas | Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 11:38 PM | To: List for Openmoko community discussion | Subject: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update | | Robin Paulson wrote: | 2008/4/14 Dirk Deimeke [EMAIL PROTECTED]: | I also would like to have - may be separately: | - Stylus | personally, i'd want: | *a modified charger (if one is made) *a pouch included, and that's | it | | I think for a phone that's heavily touch-based, a stylus is a must-have. | Doesn't even need to be the fancy one that shipped with the Neo | (and I'm sad I can't buy another orange/white model like my GTA01 | was but oh well), but include *something*. | | -id | | ___ | Openmoko community mailing list | community@lists.openmoko.org | http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community | | | ___ | Openmoko community mailing list | community@lists.openmoko.org | http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community | | ___ | Openmoko community mailing list | community@lists.openmoko.org | http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community | | | ___ | Openmoko community mailing list | community@lists.openmoko.org | http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community | -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFIBCfNlYiDScJJ+7QRAh9tAJ4/Tqqr+PTRj5NVw0VaaltWG0wF9wCgmzk5 WNMr/UUpVHULk2q7y+KeGbM= =MhoO -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: DHL has a package for me!
Cool idea. I should be headed up to Michael house on Thursday with the phones. DHL promised them tommorrow. Provided I am a true american. I think one of my spawn here have a you tube camera. I'll pry it from their sweaty paw if I can. Otherwise michael may have something. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of NeoSleg Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 9:10 AM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Re: DHL has a package for me! Could you please take some pictures and make some movies ? Just to help us waiting for it ;) On Tue, 15 Apr 2008 08:57:17 -0700, steve [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My samples arrived! I'm in customs hell. They want me to prove I am an american. So I have to send them a copy of My social security card or my taxes. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: DHL has a package for me!
Well to release the package to me they needed my social security number. BUT, they would not take it verbally over the phone. They needed written proof. Why? because as the customs lady explained, homeland security had audited DHL and found out that people had lied to them about their SSN. So, Now DHL requires written proof of your SSN. to clear customs. I was given two options: Provide a Copy of your social secuity card front and back, or provide a copy of your Tax forms with the financial data blacked out. Whatever, the stuff is headed my way. _ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kyle Bassett Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 9:12 AM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Re: DHL has a package for me! awesome! why does it matter that you are or are not an american? -Kyle On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 11:57 AM, steve [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My samples arrived! I'm in customs hell. They want me to prove I am an american. So I have to send them a copy of My social security card or my taxes. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: DHL has a package for me!
Maybe we should just make an adventure film of Michael and Steve getting FreeRunners. _ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Crane, Matthew Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 9:30 AM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: RE: DHL has a package for me! Post them to engadget/gizmodo? _ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Alexander Frøyseth Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 12:24 PM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Re: DHL has a package for me! Support that. Please post som images :D NeoSleg skrev: Could you please take some pictures and make some movies ? Just to help us waiting for it ;) On Tue, 15 Apr 2008 08:57:17 -0700, steve mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My samples arrived! I'm in customs hell. They want me to prove I am an american. So I have to send them a copy of My social security card or my taxes. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: oredring the Freerunner as an research item
Just send me a personal reminder at [EMAIL PROTECTED] And be persistent, nag me. _ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Flemming Richter Mikkelsen Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 11:13 AM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Re: oredring the Freerunner as an research item On 4/15/08, steve [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: i'll look into it, but this country by country selective processing is defeating the purpose. Thank you! I really hope for the best:) -- Please don't send me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html Join the FSF as an Associate Member at: URL:http://www.fsf.org/register_form?referrer=5774 ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update
what you guys actually want to see me dance? _ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Alexander Frøyseth Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 11:53 AM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update wtf? This is an hocky movie steve skrev: The Happy dance http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypnlOJjC368 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Samblas Martinez Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 6:17 AM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: RE: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update I wanna see a video of that happy dance xD --- steve mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] escribió: I think Michael and I were supposed to test the 8GB version. Actually Michael tests and I say wow and great and then do the happy dance. He'll be back soon. We will revert on this. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Marco Trevisan (Treviño) Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 4:30 AM To: community@lists.openmoko.org Subject: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update Ivo Anjo wrote: Finally, the miniSD card, DEFINITELY leave it off, unless you get a really really really good deal, because you can buy very high-capacity nowadays, so it doesn't make much sense to pay for 512mb or such on the neo, and then buy a multi-gb one (I am definitely getting one of those myself). I agree, I'll buy one soon too, but what's the maximum capacity actually supported (I've seen the wiki, but there are no so much tests)? I'd like to buy an 8Gb Mini-SD card... -- Treviño's World - Life and Linux http://www.3v1n0.net/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community __ Tu correo también desde el móvil. Descárgate gratis Yahoo! Go. http://es.mobile.yahoo.com ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update
Ole. Let's do a thought experiment I'll sell you all the red phones you care to buy at a deep discount. In fact, I will promise never to sell a RedRunner and let you have all of the red phone market. How many would you buy? Today, they like red, yesterday it was pink, Tuesday will be herringbone. That is fashion. Skirts go up. They come down. Nothing wrong with that! But for now We are choosing a different path. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ole Tange Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 2:03 PM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 6:29 AM, Kosa [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Has somebody eaten a clown this morning at breakfast? ;-) Of course noone really wants a pink freerunner, does someone? I do! :D (just kidding) I recently was at a dinner with former colleagues. The subject turned to OpenMoko and mobile phones. I asked my female former colleague what her killer feature would be. Without hesitation she said: It has to be red. That was the ONLY requirement. When I told the story to my girl friend she said: Can I get one in red, too? Neither of them cared about about the size of,the phone (which I personally find a big too large), as they were going to carry it in their bag. I think we seriously underestimate that 50% of the population is female. If painting it red can raise the sales, I would say, go for it. /Ole ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update
Need to figure out how Cyanea Octopus does it http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2007/02/070209-octopus-video.html -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael Shiloh Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 5:23 PM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update My daughter is sitting right next to me and says yes, she absolutely wants one in pink. She also wants one multicolored. See, the white-and-markers idea isn't such a bad one, eh? Michael Bastian Muck wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Has somebody eaten a clown this morning at breakfast? ;-) Of course noone really wants a pink freerunner, does someone? steve schrieb: | When I did my first MP3 in Aluminum I ran out and had it anodized gold! | I was lucky to find a place that was set up to do gold. Most are set | up for clear, black, red and blue. Guy didn't even charge me. | | | | | -Original Message- | From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael | Shiloh | Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 1:33 PM | To: List for Openmoko community discussion | Subject: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update | | My daughter requests pink. | | Maybe the only one. | | I suggest we make them all white and include a pack of magic | markers, so you can color them any color you wish, or decorate to | your heart's content. | | Half jokingly, | Michael | | steve wrote: | Ok, | | Well I apologize for killing the orange/white model. When I get | to place where I can figure what colors everyone wants and in what | ratios, then I can easily add colors. For now, folks are focused on | the innards and not the cosmetics. | | | | | -Original Message- | From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of ian | douglas | Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 11:38 PM | To: List for Openmoko community discussion | Subject: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update | | Robin Paulson wrote: | 2008/4/14 Dirk Deimeke [EMAIL PROTECTED]: | I also would like to have - may be separately: | - Stylus | personally, i'd want: | *a modified charger (if one is made) *a pouch included, and that's | it | | I think for a phone that's heavily touch-based, a stylus is a must-have. | Doesn't even need to be the fancy one that shipped with the Neo | (and I'm sad I can't buy another orange/white model like my GTA01 | was but oh well), but include *something*. | | -id | | ___ | Openmoko community mailing list | community@lists.openmoko.org | http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community | | | ___ | Openmoko community mailing list | community@lists.openmoko.org | http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community | | ___ | Openmoko community mailing list | community@lists.openmoko.org | http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community | | | ___ | Openmoko community mailing list | community@lists.openmoko.org | http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community | -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFIBCfNlYiDScJJ+7QRAh9tAJ4/Tqqr+PTRj5NVw0VaaltWG0wF9wCgmzk5 WNMr/UUpVHULk2q7y+KeGbM= =MhoO -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
HAPPY DANCE version .9
Dhl delivered goodies today. I gave one to my kids. One phone. Two teenage boys. Stress testing. They fighting over it. Ha. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update
One goal of freeing the CAD , freeing the flesh of the phone, was to enable others to seize these opportunities. So, the CAD files for the FreeRunner are out there, before it has even shipped. I think this decision is underappreciated. The per piece cost of plastic is small. Go price a pound of plastic. The risk is tooling. We reduced that by making CAD data open. Long LONG ago, you had to pay big set up fees to Print a document. That has come down over time. I want to enable a world were you can print parts. Trust me, I am not happy when I tell people that they cant get pink. If you want pink, you should get pink. That doesnt entail that I should build pink. I enable people to make it pink by publishing CAD files. If you think pink, then I'll sell you the electronics that go under those pink platistics _ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Neil Davey Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 9:18 AM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update From the involvement I've had with injection molding the costs of material (ie the plastic) per piece it not very expensive, it's the mold tool that is the expensive part.. For one project I'm involved in I think the mold tool was something like $10KUSD.. This is a production quality (read high quality) tool... I have heard of cheaper tools out of china I think (like a few $K), but don't think the quality is as good.. Just my 2c Regards Neil Davey Hugo Mills wrote: On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 06:32:09PM +0200, Peter Kraker wrote: Someone with a knack for business should simply grab those CAD files and start manufacturing replacement cases in gazillion different colors. I thought the same. So I've picked an injection moulding firm more or less at random, and asked them about the costs and processes involved -- just to see what it would take to do. Hugo. _ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- --- Neil Davey Daveytronics.com.au P.O. Box 6089 Logan Central QLD, 4114 Looking for cost effective web hosting? Need a domain name for your business? It's cheaper than you think!! Talk to us and see what we can do for you --- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update
This is EXACTLY why we freed the CAD files -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Hugo Mills Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 8:58 AM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 06:32:09PM +0200, Peter Kraker wrote: Someone with a knack for business should simply grab those CAD files and start manufacturing replacement cases in gazillion different colors. I thought the same. So I've picked an injection moulding firm more or less at random, and asked them about the costs and processes involved -- just to see what it would take to do. Hugo. -- === Hugo Mills: [EMAIL PROTECTED] carfax.org.uk | darksatanic.net | lug.org.uk === PGP key: 515C238D from wwwkeys.eu.pgp.net or http://www.carfax.org.uk --- Great oxymorons of the world, no. 2: Common Sense --- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: HAPPY DANCE version .9
First question was can I play WOW on it. I slap my head so hard I have no wrinkles in my forehead anymore. better than Botox. _ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Steven Le Roux Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 9:56 AM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Re: HAPPY DANCE version .9 So it appears to be the destructive test ;) On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 6:41 PM, steve [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dhl delivered goodies today. I gave one to my kids. One phone. Two teenage boys. Stress testing. They fighting over it. Ha. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- Steven Le Roux Jabber-ID : [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: Colored cases, etc - Was Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update
Well, you actualy have to design the case to allow painting. Paint has THICKNESS. So if you look at the clearence for buttons, you would have one clearence for a non painted plastic and a bigger clearence for a painted plastic part. I have made this mistake before, when I wanted to change colors at the last minute and the painted plastic parts didnt exactly provide the types of clearences ( etc) that you need. All that said, there are parts on FR that could be painted without ruining fit and function. The back cover, and front cover The middle part which houses the UBS, ext ant, etc etc, is the part I would worry about painting, because of the clearence problem for the connectors and buttons that are brought out through that plane of the device. _ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Steven Le Roux Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 10:04 AM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Re: Colored cases, etc - Was Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update Hmm in this goal, why not Openmoko.com to sell blank case, non finished ones, witout any painting, just to be customized/adapted later ? I don't think only with painting, but integrate an eye cam or other expansion pack, or wifi external connectors for example... Even one water proof why not :) On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 6:02 PM, Steven ** [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: For the one off, you could check out http://www.emachineshop.com They do injection molding of various plastics in many colors. I'm not sure if you could make a profit by having them make a ton of cases and then reselling them or not. -Steven On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 5:22 AM, Hugo Mills [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Maybe there's someone out there with the know-how to make blank cases based on the published OM designs? I'd guess it's a matter of making suitable injection-moulded components -- front and back -- and then either ringing the changes with the plastic colour used, or just selling white ones that can then be painted and lacquered. I have no idea of the economics of injection moulding, though. Hugo. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- Steven Le Roux Jabber-ID : [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: HAPPY DANCE version .9
Hey, it's been a while and there is no blood. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Steven ** Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 10:15 AM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Re: HAPPY DANCE version .9 Is that supposed to stress the phone? Or you? ;-) -Steven On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 11:41 AM, steve [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dhl delivered goodies today. I gave one to my kids. One phone. Two teenage boys. Stress testing. They fighting over it. Ha. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: next costumers location
There are differences. See the CAD files I cannot recall off the top of my noggin what they are. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brandon Kruger Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 1:19 PM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Re: next costumers location On Wed April 16 2008 2:30:04 pm AVee wrote: On Monday 14 April 2008 01:13, steve wrote: A. We killed the orange colored phone. May it rest in peace. *snif* I will now forever (or at least the rest of the day) regret not buying a GTA01. AVee Are the GTA01 and GTA02 cases the same? If so, some lucky orange Neo1973 owners could sell some rare orange freerunner cases on ebay! -- Brandon Kruger [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://onedollarlinux.com BLOG - http://onedollarlinux.com/personal/ Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: Colored cases, etc - Was Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update
See what you think. The one issue might be that you have to use their design Package ( a little funky) and I don't recall being able to get an data base of your Design files. So, it's a bit sketchy on the open philosophy side of things. I havent been to their site in couple years, so lets check it out. I'm headed up tommorrow. I have FreeRunners! -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael Shiloh Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 9:45 AM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Re: Colored cases, etc - Was Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update I've never used emachineshop, but I will ask around. Perhaps some of my friends have. Michael steve wrote: I love emachineshop. I thought of approaching them to do some kinda co promotion. Maybe Michael Shiloh can weigh in here. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Steven ** Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 9:02 AM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Colored cases, etc - Was Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update For the one off, you could check out http://www.emachineshop.com They do injection molding of various plastics in many colors. I'm not sure if you could make a profit by having them make a ton of cases and then reselling them or not. -Steven On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 5:22 AM, Hugo Mills [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Maybe there's someone out there with the know-how to make blank cases based on the published OM designs? I'd guess it's a matter of making suitable injection-moulded components -- front and back -- and then either ringing the changes with the plastic colour used, or just selling white ones that can then be painted and lacquered. I have no idea of the economics of injection moulding, though. Hugo. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update
Thanks Lon. Good comment. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lon Lentz Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 5:12 PM To: community@lists.openmoko.org Subject: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update For quite a while now I've been reading comments from people saying that this issue or that issue is a deal breaker. I've been reading hardware requests and demands that stretch the gambit from quaint and interesting to just down right silly. If this is the environment in which all FOSS is developed, it's amazing we have a kernel to run it all on. I'm all about presenting and discussing ideas. But the making of demands in this environment is extreme. FIC and OM have come up with a hardware platform to meet a predetermined need and market. If someone thinks some major item is missing, create a competitor. Fork the hardware. In all fairness though, I think calling the release of the CAD files under appreciated is a little premature. Accessories companies are going to wait to see what the adoption of this phone will be like. Then they will make business decisions about risk versus benefit. If the phone does become successful, that is moving enough units to make it profitable for FIC and the accessories makers, we will see the CAD files be put to use outside of hobbiests. On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 4:45 PM, Hugo Mills [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 10:07:18AM -0700, steve wrote: One goal of freeing the CAD , freeing the flesh of the phone, was to enable others to seize these opportunities. So, the CAD files for the FreeRunner are out there, before it has even shipped. I think this decision is underappreciated. From reading this thread, I think you're right. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: HAPPY DANCE version .9. Teenagers stop fighting!
15 and 19. I think they will probably get the video cable thing figured out. And hopefully post something. _ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Alexander Frøyseth Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 11:05 PM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Re: HAPPY DANCE version .9. Teenagers stop fighting! HAHA How old are they? steve skrev: I decided to do a test of sorts. I gave a phone to the boys and decided to let them see if they could Figure it out. I gave them 1 bit of info. Go buy a Pay as you go phone and make sure it's GSM. Put That Sim in the NEO. And I made them use their money. I also told them to make a you tube video. Then I said nothing else. They went out to the stores To get a pay as you go phone and to try to source a cable for the dang video camera. They came back And the cable for the video camera was the wrong one. I said nothing. We opened the pay as you go Phone. The plastic package was so thick I had two choices. Plasma torch or garden shears. I chose the latter. That's when the fight broke out between me and them. Who puts the simm card in, etc etc? Dad you don't understand. Let us do it. So I did. They didn't want my damn help and would not listen To a fricken thing I said. I told them fine dont screw it up. About 10 minutes later my land line rings. Crap. Crap. crap. Who is calling me now? FreeRunner #98. They will make a video later if we can find a cable. right now these boys who never stop fighting are out having dinner together. HA. Neo and world peace. I feel like miss america. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ian Darwin Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 3:26 PM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Re: HAPPY DANCE version .9 steve wrote: Dhl delivered goodies today. I gave one to my kids. One phone. Two teenage boys. Stress testing. They fighting over it. Ha. If they break the hardware, is that a successful stress test? Ian ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update
mini usb to USB. _ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ivo Anjo Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 3:32 PM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update Hi. Is this the mini-usb (on OM side) -- usb (pc side), or the Y usb cable for usb host? Ivo On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 10:43 PM, steve [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: USB cable is in. _ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Sebastian Billaudelle Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 8:41 AM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update My opinion: + USB-cable is essentially! I think the nice FreeRunner won't look nice with a self-made cable... + pouch + lanyard (this is something Moko-specific like the pouch...) - no stylus - no SD-card (1/2 GByte are too small, more are too expensive) - no headset (some want big ones, others small ones...) cheers Sebastian Am Montag, den 14.04.2008, 16:48 +0200 schrieb Kevin Zuber: I totally agree with you, Marco! But I would like to add two important things: -The Pouch is more important than needed for me, it's essential. It will always be there, when I'm not using it, I also don't want a no-name pouch, because I like that one with the word openmoko on it, because it is simply great! I also like this neoprene-outfit. -The MicroSD is less than optional, because here in germany (don't know about other countries) you get an xxSD card really everywhere for just a few euros. Another point is, that I can buy that size I want to buy (depends on the money I would like to spend on it). Two notices for optional gadgets: -Lanyard: I don't think one with openmoko on it is a standard part, and I like it :) (I also think it's a really cheap but great part) -Headset: Every ones ears are other ears: small, big... and because of the standard port every headset should work. I also thought that the openmoko (GTA01) headset has no mic. Correct me if I'm wrong. Kevin Am Montag, den 14.04.2008, 02:35 +0200 schrieb Marco Trevisan (Treviño): steve ha scritto: Many people have voiced there opinion to me about what EXTRAS they would like in the box ( most of them legal) so, the team will make a decision. We won't please everybody, but it will be a rational decision, based on cost of the extra goodies, availability, and importance, and your feedback I do think that the needed goodies to have a market-ready device are: - AC Charger (better if custom) - Headset (with mic?) - Pouch (well, I figure our Freerunner will be there most of the time!) - Stylus Optional: - MicroSD - USB Cable - Lanyard ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community Ich aktzeptiere keine MS Office Dokumente, weil sie 1. kein ISO Standard sind, 2. bewusst schlecht entwickelt sind und 3. nicht für alle zugänglich sind! Benutze bitte das Open Document Format - jeder kann es kostenlos öffnen - auch noch in tausenden von Jahren! ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update
It's the first one, michale will detail all of these when he posts his getting started web page, complete with pictures, diagrams etc -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Philippe Guillebert Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 3:49 PM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update steve wrote: USB cable is in. Hello all, Sorry to keep that up but I see three kind of potential cables and I'm not sure which one you're talking about : - First is male USB A = freerunner (USB mini AB, I believe) : it is used for charging and using usb slave functions (usb mass storage...). This one is pretty standard and can be found in every shop. I'm guessing you're talking about this one. - The second is a female USB A = freerunner. It's used for host mode (for example, plugging a usb key or keyboard to the neo. I've got no idea if it is easy to find that one in a shop. - The third one is the famous Y cable, that is pretty much the same as #2 except it gets an additional male USB A connector in order to provide current to the neo (from any charger) while using host mode. It doesn't seem very straightforward to use (a three-way cable ?) but covers all the cases of cable #2 (hence it is more universal). It definitively cannot be found in a shop and I guess this involves a cutter and some dirty electronics to make one. I hope I'm making this clearer, and wonder what we can expect in the final package ? Thanks ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: Unofficial poll: Do you want 3G in the proposed successor, GTA03?
Our CAD files are open. Anyone who wants to persue this as a business is welcome to. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Carlo E. Prelz Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 11:20 PM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Re: Unofficial poll: Do you want 3G in the proposed successor, GTA03? Subject: Re: Unofficial poll: Do you want 3G in the proposed successor, GTA 03? Date: Mon 14 Apr 08 08:55:41PM -0500 Quoting Jae Stutzman ([EMAIL PROTECTED]): I vote for current GTA02 features plus 3G and USB2.0! I warmly suggest that FIC produce a GTA02.2 - same hardware, but with a QWERTY keyboard... Form-factor similar to nokia e61. This should not require such a long and difficult development process. Carlo -- * Se la Strada e la sua Virtu' non fossero state messe da parte, * K * Carlo E. Prelz - [EMAIL PROTECTED] che bisogno ci sarebbe * di parlare tanto di amore e di rettitudine? (Chuang-Tzu) ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: which applications are usable
I'll update in a bit, but for launch we put the focus on basic applicatons for developers to get started. Dialer, contacts,SMS, and terminal. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Eildert Groeneveld Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2008 7:41 AM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: which applications are usable Hello List with the Freerunner approaching I wonder which applications are currently in a usable status? Apparently, Steve's managed to make a phone call. What about SMS or addressbook? Is there a list somewhere? or does the current qemu download give an impression (its so slow its not really useful) greetings Eildert ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: Micheal Shiloh: where were you?
Ajit, I will answer the question on warrenty in due course. For now, assume a policy like we had on GTA01. 14 days for DOA. I'm working at coming up with a more comprehensive policy. But Until then we will default to the last known value. Steve -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ajit Natarajan Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 11:38 PM To: community@lists.openmoko.org Subject: Re: Micheal Shiloh: where were you? Michael Shiloh wrote: I'm sorry to have disappointed you all. I'm afraid that due to unforseen circumstances I was unable to attend. To my regret I wasn't able to inform the conference organizers in time. Just out of curiosity, how many were in the Openmoko session? Michael, Your session was slotted for 5:30-6:30 pm today (Wednesday). The room could hold 30+ people (I think). And it was full. During the dinner following the sessions, I was talking to a consultant who said that he had bumped into you in SF a couple of times. He is also looking forward to laying his hands on a Freerunner. Will you be coming tomorrow? I had several questions that I wanted to ask you after your session: . Steve has ignored :( my question on the warranty. I wanted to get some data from you on it. . I wanted to find out if you knew of any group of people in the Bay Area who may be interested in a 10-pack. . I wanted to hold the Freerunner to check out its feel. I wanted to use the stylus to see whether I was comfortable with it. . I wanted to ask you about ultra clear versus ultra clear plus LCD protectors and if you had any experience with either. . I wanted your opinion on the software stack that would be available with the first product release of the Freerunner. I guess all this has to be done by email now :( . Above all, I wanted to personally meet you. I had a conversation with a Nokia research employee on the sidelines who was talking about porting a standard Linux distribution to the Nokia 800/810. I asked him if Nokia had any plans on adding a phone to their Internet tablet. He said that he couldn't reveal any future product plans. I opined that this was an advantage of Openmoko in that they were fairly forthcoming on their plans and solicited ideas from the community. His response was that while Openmoko devices were good to play with and had certain advantages (he had one himself), Nokia was a consumer oriented company that produced and sold a huge number of consumer oriented devices. Not sure what he was trying to say. I could have gotten the two of you together and we could have had a good conversation. This may have been particularly useful in light of recent threads on end customers opinions and the lack of focus group testing. One of the Asian companies (can't remember which, sorry), was demonstrating Android (Google's mobile platform). Trolltech was demonstrating Qt on a Broadcom phone platform. There were some other demonstrations as well. So, quite a few phone related demonstrations and presentations. Ajit ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: HAPPY DANCE version .9. Teenagers stop fighting!
there are still hunting for a power cord for this camera. It's a custom cord. I refuse to help them. maybe they learn to solder. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Eric Stratte Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2008 10:37 AM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Re: HAPPY DANCE version .9. Teenagers stop fighting! Did they get WOW working? That's what I want to see ;) (kidding..mostly..abt 98% kidding) eric steve wrote: 15 and 19. I think they will probably get the video cable thing figured out. And hopefully post something. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
