Re: [computer-go] Is CGOS sending TIME_LEFT?
Hi Don I noticed that your list is upper-case. This might be the problem. I don't remember if GTP is case sensitive or not, but I'm pretty sure cgos requires lower case in these commands. Thank you. That was the problem. It was uppercase. To make it case insensitive, I convert all input to uppercase when I preprocess. So my names are declared uppercase. A stupid example of trying to amend something and actually breaking it. It works fine now. Jacques. ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
Re: [computer-go] How to get more participation in 19x19 CGOS?
Don Dailey wrote: My suggest to Olivier is to compromise and set time control 20 minutes per side and give 1 second gift. That's good for me. Until now, I have been running tests and gnugo clones just to support the server, but I will start serious work soon. I have some time for computer go at last! I cannot use the 9x9 server, because my approach is very knowledge oriented. Jacques. ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
Re: [computer-go] cgos from windows
I think you are right about the tclkit exe. I used the one that the instruction page linked, which does throw up a GUI if you run it with no args. I wonder if it even works. It appears to be a way to cripple the server. It does work. I have played over 600 games with it. It does not write any log files. If your gtp interface can do it, that's not a major problem. Jacques. ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
RE: [computer-go] How to get more participation in 19x19 CGOS?
Just for the record, For 19x19 I like a time setting of 5 to 10 minutes (max) per side. My main two reasons: 1) It takes to long to establish a good rating estimate. 2) For the near future I can only run on a single cpu machine at night. During the day my wife is using this computer, and it is much to slow let the program run at the same time. Then when I want to stop the game gracefully, it takes too long (for me) to wait for the game to stop with long time controls (this was up to one hour). That is why I was not competing on 19x19 cgos... Cheers, Edward _ De mooiste afbeeldingen van Angelina Jolie vind je met Live Search http://search.live.com/images/results.aspx?q=angelina%20jolieFORM=MIINTM___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
[computer-go] Lardo1
Lardo1 crashed or something else happed that caused the cgos client script to fail. Anyway, I probably won't put it back up. I think it's too weak to be of any use. ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
Re: [computer-go] How to get more participation in 19x19 CGOS?
Thanks, David!
I think you said that your three versions of Many Faces 12 are about 5 stones
apart in strength?
I'm guessing this means that version A can give B a 5 stone handicap, and win
50% of the time,
while version B can give C a 5 stone handicap and win 50% of the games?
Have you played the 3 versions against Gnugo? What handicaps seem appropriate
there?
I think Don Dailey posted that there is a need for a GnuGo on the 19x19 server?
I can host if need be, have spare CPU here and full-time connection.
Terry McIntyre [EMAIL PROTECTED]
“Wherever is found what is called a paternal government, there is found state
education. It has been discovered that the best way to insure implicit
obedience is to commence tyranny in the nursery.”
Benjamin Disraeli, Speech in the House of Commons [June 15, 1874]
- Original Message
From: David Fotland [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: computer-go computer-go@computer-go.org
Sent: Tuesday, January 8, 2008 3:00:44 PM
Subject: RE: [computer-go] How to get more participation in 19x19 CGOS?
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You can test your bot on the 19x19 cgos now, since I added 3
weak players today. They are so fast they don’t load my machine, so I’ll leave
them up.
David
Be a better friend, newshound, and
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
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RE: [computer-go] How to get more participation in 19x19 CGOS?
I like 15 minutes on 19x19. The scalable programs can test at any time limit, so they should prefer shorter times, to get ratings sooner. But we also want to test against the strong traditional programs, and in particular, gnugo level 10 is the anchor. Gnugo level 10 needs up to 10 minutes, and is not scalable. So the time limit should be high enough to allow gnugo to play at full strength. 15 minutes gives a comfortable margin. David From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Edward de Grijs Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2008 6:07 AM To: computer-go Subject: RE: [computer-go] How to get more participation in 19x19 CGOS? Just for the record, For 19x19 I like a time setting of 5 to 10 minutes (max) per side. My main two reasons: 1) It takes to long to establish a good rating estimate. 2) For the near future I can only run on a single cpu machine at night. During the day my wife is using this computer, and it is much to slow let the program run at the same time. Then when I want to stop the game gracefully, it takes too long (for me) to wait for the game to stop with long time controls (this was up to one hour). That is why I was not competing on 19x19 cgos... Cheers, Edward _ Plan je evenement, nodig mensen uit en deel je foto's met Windows Live Events http://events.live.com ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
RE: [computer-go] How to get more participation in 19x19 CGOS?
I tested the three versions only against each other, and tuned them by removing go knowledge. I didn't spend much time on it so I didn't have time to tune against gnugo. I thought that tuning on the server would be better. Since programs do better against themselves, the actual strength difference is probably less than 5 stones. Level 0 should be really stupid. It can't read ladders, and the move generator only uses patterns that are 3x3. I tested with 100 games, and level 2 gives 5 stones to level 1 and wins 45%. Level 1 gives five stones to level 0 and wins 53% David From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of terry mcintyre Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2008 7:39 AM To: computer-go Subject: Re: [computer-go] How to get more participation in 19x19 CGOS? Thanks, David! I think you said that your three versions of Many Faces 12 are about 5 stones apart in strength? I'm guessing this means that version A can give B a 5 stone handicap, and win 50% of the time, while version B can give C a 5 stone handicap and win 50% of the games? Have you played the 3 versions against Gnugo? What handicaps seem appropriate there? I think Don Dailey posted that there is a need for a GnuGo on the 19x19 server? I can host if need be, have spare CPU here and full-time connection. Terry McIntyre [EMAIL PROTECTED] Wherever is found what is called a paternal government, there is found state education. It has been discovered that the best way to insure implicit obedience is to commence tyranny in the nursery. Benjamin Disraeli, Speech in the House of Commons [June 15, 1874] - Original Message From: David Fotland [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: computer-go computer-go@computer-go.org Sent: Tuesday, January 8, 2008 3:00:44 PM Subject: RE: [computer-go] How to get more participation in 19x19 CGOS? You can test your bot on the 19x19 cgos now, since I added 3 weak players today. They are so fast they don't load my machine, so I'll leave them up. David _ Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=51438/*http:/www.yahoo.com/r/hs your homepage. ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
RE: [computer-go] CGOS 19x19 is down
Thanks. I just restarted the five Many Faces versions. The slowest is Many Faces version 11 at its highest level, which uses less than 10 minutes per game. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:computer-go- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Olivier Teytaud Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2008 11:50 PM To: computer-go Subject: Re: [computer-go] CGOS 19x19 is down CGOS 19x19 is back. Following current discussions, I have temporary moved the time settings to 15 minutes and increased the gift to 1s per move; when the discussion about time settings will be over, I'll set the time settings that most people want. Olivier ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/ ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
Re: [computer-go] How to get more participation in 19x19 CGOS?
What's the point of getting a stable ranking which is more or less meaningless? If someone want to?debug or test their programs, they could easily use the publicaly available version of MoGo or GnuGo. The purpose of the 19x19 CGOS is to compare strength between serious programs in a meaningful way. By meaningful, I refer to the human play.? DL -Original Message- From: David Fotland [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'computer-go' computer-go@computer-go.org Sent: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 2:23 pm Subject: RE: [computer-go] How to get more participation in 19x19 CGOS? I expect the faster time control will make my program look worse. It will certainly do worse vs Gnugo with less time. I expect it will also do worse against crazystone, since the crazystone version currently running is much faster than the time control, so it won't change strength at all. The problem with the current time limits is that it takes forever to get a stable rank, so people don't leave their programs on long enough. David -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:computer-go- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Don Dailey Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2008 12:08 PM To: computer-go Subject: Re: [computer-go] How to get more participation in 19x19 CGOS? Hi David, Putting some weaker programs on CGOS is a good idea - I would like to see it seeded with players of many different strengths. Olivier is in charge of cgos 19x19 so whatever time he wants to set is up to him.I would suggest to him to set a 1 second time gift if he chooses to play at a faster rate since network will be a real issue with any who have a lousy connection. If the time control is cut in half, it will probably change the relative strengths of the programs, because some programs will not be crippled by the time change and other will. Here is what I would predict: 1. Gnugo would increase in ranking. 2. Your program will increase in rank - but not as much as GnuGo. 3. Crazy Stone will drop in rank. 4. Every program will drop in ELO except GnuGo or other non- scalable programs. I'm assuming that your program is scalable, that Crazy Stone is more scalable and GnuGo is not scalable (in other words it would run just the same as it does now.) So if we decrease the time control, it will make you look better and you may get lazy about improving your program. However, it might make GnuGo competitive with your program.I'm of course making certain scalability assumptions that might not be true. My suggest to Olivier is to compromise and set time control 20 minutes per side and give 1 second gift. - Don David Fotland wrote: I think there are two reasons there are not more programs on 19x19 CGOS: 1) The anchor, Gnugo, is quite strong, Many Faces 12 is stronger, and CrazyStone is much stronger. Since the programs playing are so strong, it is demoralizing for a new program to lose so often. Without weaker competition, it is hard to get accurate ratings for new, weaker programs. 2) The rounds take almost an hour, so it takes much too long to get enough games to see how your program is doing. In my local testing, I use 10 or 15 minutes per side. I like to see 50 to 100 test games get any confidence that a new version is stronger. I prefer to get a test run complete in under a day. I propose the following changes: I'll put up 3 weaker versions of Many Faces 12, so there is competition at lower ratings. These versions are quite fast, using only a few seconds for a full game. This will provide some stable opponents for the weaker programs. I think the time limits for CGOS19x19 should be reduced to 10 or 15 minutes per side. This is enough to test programs, and it's still a reasonable time limit for games against people. Since programs that search scale with additional time, the relative ratings of these programs should be similar at 10 minutes per game and 30 minutes per game. -David ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/ ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/ ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
Re: [computer-go] How to get more participation in 19x19 CGOS?
I have a Java version of the old Goliath 3. I have a GTP bridge also. If it's not a lot of work I'd consider putting it on 19x19 CGOS. How would I go about doing that? (I have a Mac but could possibly arrange a PC.) At the moment the Java translation has an annoying bug that I haven't bothered to find yet. It causes it to overlook some atari's and ladders occasionally. Maybe if I get some games played it will be easier for me to locate this bug. Mark ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
Re: [computer-go] How to get more participation in 19x19 CGOS?
- Original Message What's the point of getting a stable ranking which is more or less meaningless? If someone want to debug or test their programs, they could easily use the publicaly available version of MoGo or GnuGo. The purpose of the 19x19 CGOS is to compare strength between serious programs in a meaningful way. By meaningful, I refer to the human play. I suspect that developers do use those publicly available versions for testing, but the 19x19 server allows several things: -- testing against a broader range of programs -- publicly accountable results -- game records Tuning against just one or two programs can lead to brittle programs. Sluggo reports that it did very well against GnuGo, for instance, but not nearly so well against many other programs, due to the evil twin effect -- Sluggo knew exactly what GnuGo would probably do in a given situation, so could find moves which GnuGo was blind to. It was effectively tuned to exploit weaknesses in GnuGo's engine, which can lead to improper play which can be exploited by others. Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
RE: [computer-go] How to get more participation in 19x19 CGOS?
To get many faces 11 up, I had to change it so it would remove all dead stones before passing. I wrote a gtp wrapper for its engine to communicate with the cgos client. I can give you the source for the wrapper if you like (in C++). I have a windows tcl client that works that I got from Don a while ago. Recently while traveling I tried to download a new one but I couldn't make it work. If you want I can send you me working cgos client that runs in a DOS window and the .bat file to start it. David -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:computer-go- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mark Boon Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2008 8:52 AM To: computer-go Subject: Re: [computer-go] How to get more participation in 19x19 CGOS? I have a Java version of the old Goliath 3. I have a GTP bridge also. If it's not a lot of work I'd consider putting it on 19x19 CGOS. How would I go about doing that? (I have a Mac but could possibly arrange a PC.) At the moment the Java translation has an annoying bug that I haven't bothered to find yet. It causes it to overlook some atari's and ladders occasionally. Maybe if I get some games played it will be easier for me to locate this bug. Mark ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/ ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
Re: [computer-go] How to get more participation in 19x19 CGOS?
Mark Boon wrote: I have a Java version of the old Goliath 3. I have a GTP bridge also. If it's not a lot of work I'd consider putting it on 19x19 CGOS. How would I go about doing that? (I have a Mac but could possibly arrange a PC.) At the moment the Java translation has an annoying bug that I haven't bothered to find yet. It causes it to overlook some atari's and ladders occasionally. Maybe if I get some games played it will be easier for me to locate this bug. On macs, you need to get a tclkit runtime or else install a recent version of tcl on your machine. The runtime is very simple to install and gives you the ability to run the visual client too which is universal. You will also need to ensure that your bot knows the CGOS rules - chinese scoring, 2 passes ends the game and all stones are considered alive.If your opponent has dead stones your program must clean up and play it out before passing or you will lose games needlessly.Pay attention to positional superko and suicide is not allowed. Once you have the run-time you can get the generic cgos3.tcl client which attaches to the server as well as to your engine. I will be happy to help you along the way. I would start here, by getting the appropriate tclkit for your platform: http://www.equi4.com/pub/tk/downloads.html Then go to http://cgos.boardspace.net/index.html and get the neccessary clients. You must also be sure and read the instructions for connecting to 19x19 server. - Don Mark ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/ ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
Re: [computer-go] How to get more participation in 19x19 CGOS?
The cgos3-darwin.zip client on the web site will attach you to the 9x9 server - unless you actually modify it by unwrapping it, changing it, then wrapping it back up. If you want, I will wrap up a version that will work for 19x19. I really should take some time to make this more usable (configurable) ... - Don Don Dailey wrote: Mark Boon wrote: I have a Java version of the old Goliath 3. I have a GTP bridge also. If it's not a lot of work I'd consider putting it on 19x19 CGOS. How would I go about doing that? (I have a Mac but could possibly arrange a PC.) At the moment the Java translation has an annoying bug that I haven't bothered to find yet. It causes it to overlook some atari's and ladders occasionally. Maybe if I get some games played it will be easier for me to locate this bug. On macs, you need to get a tclkit runtime or else install a recent version of tcl on your machine. The runtime is very simple to install and gives you the ability to run the visual client too which is universal. You will also need to ensure that your bot knows the CGOS rules - chinese scoring, 2 passes ends the game and all stones are considered alive.If your opponent has dead stones your program must clean up and play it out before passing or you will lose games needlessly.Pay attention to positional superko and suicide is not allowed. Once you have the run-time you can get the generic cgos3.tcl client which attaches to the server as well as to your engine. I will be happy to help you along the way. I would start here, by getting the appropriate tclkit for your platform: http://www.equi4.com/pub/tk/downloads.html Then go to http://cgos.boardspace.net/index.html and get the neccessary clients. You must also be sure and read the instructions for connecting to 19x19 server. - Don Mark ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/ ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
Re: [computer-go] How to get more participation in 19x19 CGOS?
I also run from Macs, and have no problem connecting to CGOS. Cheers, David On 9, Jan 2008, at 8:51 AM, Mark Boon wrote: I have a Java version of the old Goliath 3. I have a GTP bridge also. If it's not a lot of work I'd consider putting it on 19x19 CGOS. How would I go about doing that? (I have a Mac but could possibly arrange a PC.) ...Mark ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/ ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
Re: [computer-go] How to get more participation in 19x19 CGOS?
Thanks David. But I already have a GTP wrapper in Java that communicates through stdin and stdout so I suppose that's the same thing? I had hoped there was the equivalent of kgsGTP. Also my program doesn't remove all dead stones but I don't think that's very difficult to change. I'll look at it one of these days. Mark On 9-jan-08, at 15:32, David Fotland wrote: To get many faces 11 up, I had to change it so it would remove all dead stones before passing. I wrote a gtp wrapper for its engine to communicate with the cgos client. I can give you the source for the wrapper if you like (in C++). I have a windows tcl client that works that I got from Don a while ago. Recently while traveling I tried to download a new one but I couldn't make it work. If you want I can send you me working cgos client that runs in a DOS window and the .bat file to start it. David -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:computer-go- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mark Boon Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2008 8:52 AM To: computer-go Subject: Re: [computer-go] How to get more participation in 19x19 CGOS? I have a Java version of the old Goliath 3. I have a GTP bridge also. If it's not a lot of work I'd consider putting it on 19x19 CGOS. How would I go about doing that? (I have a Mac but could possibly arrange a PC.) At the moment the Java translation has an annoying bug that I haven't bothered to find yet. It causes it to overlook some atari's and ladders occasionally. Maybe if I get some games played it will be easier for me to locate this bug. Mark ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/ ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/ ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
Re: [computer-go] How to get more participation in 19x19 CGOS?
cgos3.tcl is the equivalent of kgsGTP. cgos3.tcl communicates through stdin and stdout.The Java wrapper will not benefit you unless it actually provided GTP to a program that doesn't know gtp. - Don Mark Boon wrote: Thanks David. But I already have a GTP wrapper in Java that communicates through stdin and stdout so I suppose that's the same thing? I had hoped there was the equivalent of kgsGTP. Also my program doesn't remove all dead stones but I don't think that's very difficult to change. I'll look at it one of these days. Mark On 9-jan-08, at 15:32, David Fotland wrote: To get many faces 11 up, I had to change it so it would remove all dead stones before passing. I wrote a gtp wrapper for its engine to communicate with the cgos client. I can give you the source for the wrapper if you like (in C++). I have a windows tcl client that works that I got from Don a while ago. Recently while traveling I tried to download a new one but I couldn't make it work. If you want I can send you me working cgos client that runs in a DOS window and the .bat file to start it. David -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:computer-go- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mark Boon Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2008 8:52 AM To: computer-go Subject: Re: [computer-go] How to get more participation in 19x19 CGOS? I have a Java version of the old Goliath 3. I have a GTP bridge also. If it's not a lot of work I'd consider putting it on 19x19 CGOS. How would I go about doing that? (I have a Mac but could possibly arrange a PC.) At the moment the Java translation has an annoying bug that I haven't bothered to find yet. It causes it to overlook some atari's and ladders occasionally. Maybe if I get some games played it will be easier for me to locate this bug. Mark ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/ ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/ ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/ ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
[computer-go] On question about Libego110
I'm looking at the code of Libgo110. I have a question. In the file uct.cpp and the definition of class note_t, the explore_coeff is calculated from log(node-bias). But in the paper 'Modification of UCT with Patterns in Monte-Carlo Go' table 1 line 10 -17, the explore_coeff is calculated from log(nb), where nb is the summation of node-bias for all the child nodes. Whyis the difference? Or did I read the code wrong? Thanks for any explanation. DL More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
Re: [computer-go] How to get more participation in 19x19 CGOS?
On 9-jan-08, at 16:11, Don Dailey wrote: cgos3.tcl is the equivalent of kgsGTP. cgos3.tcl communicates through stdin and stdout.The Java wrapper will not benefit you unless it actually provided GTP to a program that doesn't know gtp. - Don I hope we're having a bit of miscommunication. Maybe I'm not using the right terminology. I have implemented GTP in Java using stdin and stdout (can also use a socket) and can use this implementation as a wrapper around my go- engine. I think this works with kgsGTP although it's been a while since I tried that. If your cgos3.tcl is the equivalent to kgsGTP then I suppose hardly any more work is required. I'll be downloading the tcl runtime shortly and I'll be back with questions if I get stuck. Mark ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
Re: [computer-go] How to get more participation in 19x19 CGOS?
Hi Mark, Yes, I misunderstood. You should have little trouble then - cgos3.tcl is the cgos equivalent of kgsGtp. - Don Mark Boon wrote: On 9-jan-08, at 16:11, Don Dailey wrote: cgos3.tcl is the equivalent of kgsGTP. cgos3.tcl communicates through stdin and stdout.The Java wrapper will not benefit you unless it actually provided GTP to a program that doesn't know gtp. - Don I hope we're having a bit of miscommunication. Maybe I'm not using the right terminology. I have implemented GTP in Java using stdin and stdout (can also use a socket) and can use this implementation as a wrapper around my go-engine. I think this works with kgsGTP although it's been a while since I tried that. If your cgos3.tcl is the equivalent to kgsGTP then I suppose hardly any more work is required. I'll be downloading the tcl runtime shortly and I'll be back with questions if I get stuck. Mark ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/ ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
Re: [computer-go] On question about Libego110
I don't have a copy of the code, but the bias of any given node should be the sum of the bias of all of its children. On Jan 9, 2008 1:49 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm looking at the code of Libgo110. I have a question. In the file uct.cpp and the definition of class note_t, the explore_coeff is calculated from log(node-bias). But in the paper 'Modification of UCT with Patterns in Monte-Carlo Go' table 1 line 10 -17, the explore_coeff is calculated from log(nb), where nb is the summation of node-bias for all the child nodes. Whyis the difference? Or did I read the code wrong? Thanks for any explanation. DL -- More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mailhttp://o.aolcdn.com/cdn.webmail.aol.com/mailtour/aol/en-us/text.htm?ncid=aolcmp000503 ! ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/ ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
Re: [computer-go] How to get more participation in 19x19 CGOS?
On 9-jan-08, at 15:45, Don Dailey wrote: The cgos3-darwin.zip client on the web site will attach you to the 9x9 server - unless you actually modify it by unwrapping it, changing it, then wrapping it back up. If you want, I will wrap up a version that will work for 19x19. OK, I think I'm at the point where it should work. I had forgotten about the above so it played on 9x9 I believe. No idea what happened. I have the cgos3-darwin application but I have no idea how to wrap or unwrap that. What do I need to do? Mark ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
Re: [computer-go] On question about Libego110
Thanks, now they are equivalent. Is it that the lines 10 - 13 in the Table 1 of the paper can be replaced by nb := node.nb? DL -Original Message- From: Jason House [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: computer-go computer-go@computer-go.org Sent: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 1:17 pm Subject: Re: [computer-go] On question about Libego110 I don't have a copy of the code, but the bias of any given node should be the sum of the bias of all of its children. On Jan 9, 2008 1:49 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm looking at the code of Libgo110. I have a question. In the file uct.cpp and the definition of class note_t, the explore_coeff is calculated from log(node-bias). But in the paper 'Modification of UCT with Patterns in Monte-Carlo Go' table 1 line 10 -17, the explore_coeff is calculated from log(nb), where nb is the summation of node-bias for all the child nodes. Whyis the difference? Or did I read the code wrong? Thanks for any explanation. DL More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail! ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/ ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
Re: [computer-go] How to get more participation in 19x19 CGOS?
Mark Boon wrote: On 9-jan-08, at 15:45, Don Dailey wrote: The cgos3-darwin.zip client on the web site will attach you to the 9x9 server - unless you actually modify it by unwrapping it, changing it, then wrapping it back up. If you want, I will wrap up a version that will work for 19x19. OK, I think I'm at the point where it should work. I had forgotten about the above so it played on 9x9 I believe. No idea what happened. I have the cgos3-darwin application but I have no idea how to wrap or unwrap that. What do I need to do? You can do one of 2 things: 1. Just use the cgos3.tcl application - it's generic and runs on all platforms - but you will need to modify 2 lines near the top of this script - the server and the port and change them accordingly. This is a tcl script and will run with the darwin tclkit run-time. 2. If you want to compile a version for your platform, it's more complicated.I would not do this but if you really insist I think instructions were provided and posted somewhere. Briefly, you should look for the tclkit site and read about sdx.kit, tclkit and the -runtime option to sdx. - Don Mark ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/ ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
Re: [computer-go] How to design the stronger playout policy?
Mark Boon wrote: On 8-jan-08, at 17:04, Don Dailey wrote: And yes, it slows down the play-outs. Still, the play-outs seem to require a good bit of randomness - certainly they cannot be deterministic and it seems difficult to find the general principles that are important to the play-out policy. I was thinking about this and wanted to make sure I understand what you mean by 'cannot be deterministic'. You could build a playing strategy that would always play the same exact game from a particular position and this would be deterministic but then the Monte Carlo component is completely missing from the program. You would still get some chaos from the tree itself since you always expand a node once visited. I don't think this is fully understood so I could be wrong in my statement - but it does seem likely that a certain amount of randomness will improve the results. Attempts to make the play-outs stronger and stronger have failed, perhaps due to the fact that this makes them less and less random, or perhaps it's due to some other phenomenon. - Don For example a stone gets put into atari and it finds an escaping move. With plain playouts the stone gets captured anyway roughly 50% of the time. With heavy playouts it gives a weighting so that the chance of escaping becomes larger? Or does it always play the escaping move and just the rest of the playout is random? Mark ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/ ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
Re: [computer-go] How to get more participation in 19x19 CGOS?
OK, got it working. But it didn't remove all the dead stones unfortunately. Is there any way to get the SGF file of the game so I can test why it didn't do that? Or do I need to save it locally? Mark On 9-jan-08, at 19:51, Don Dailey wrote: Mark Boon wrote: On 9-jan-08, at 15:45, Don Dailey wrote: The cgos3-darwin.zip client on the web site will attach you to the 9x9 server - unless you actually modify it by unwrapping it, changing it, then wrapping it back up. If you want, I will wrap up a version that will work for 19x19. OK, I think I'm at the point where it should work. I had forgotten about the above so it played on 9x9 I believe. No idea what happened. I have the cgos3-darwin application but I have no idea how to wrap or unwrap that. What do I need to do? You can do one of 2 things: 1. Just use the cgos3.tcl application - it's generic and runs on all platforms - but you will need to modify 2 lines near the top of this script - the server and the port and change them accordingly. This is a tcl script and will run with the darwin tclkit run-time. 2. If you want to compile a version for your platform, it's more complicated.I would not do this but if you really insist I think instructions were provided and posted somewhere. Briefly, you should look for the tclkit site and read about sdx.kit, tclkit and the -runtime option to sdx. - Don Mark ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/ ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/ ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
[computer-go] CGOS lockups
I think I found one source of CGOS lockups. In
cgos.vfs/lib/app-cgos/cgos.tcl, the following code exists:
proc send {sock msg} {
if { [catch { puts $sock $msg }] } {
set who $id($sock)
log alert: Socket crash for user: $who
}
}
But when the third line down fails, cgos goes into some weird state.
That line and the next are non-essential and can ignore errors. So it
can be fixed like this:
proc send {sock msg} {
if { [catch { puts $sock $msg }] } {
catch {
set who $id($sock)
log alert: Socket crash for user: $who
}
}
}
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Re: [computer-go] CGOS lockups
Good catch - that definitely looks wrong and I'll make the fix.
I'll put a more generic log message outside the catch statement because
I still want something logged in this case.
- Don
Michael Williams wrote:
I think I found one source of CGOS lockups. In
cgos.vfs/lib/app-cgos/cgos.tcl, the following code exists:
proc send {sock msg} {
if { [catch { puts $sock $msg }] } {
set who $id($sock)
log alert: Socket crash for user: $who
}
}
But when the third line down fails, cgos goes into some weird state.
That line and the next are non-essential and can ignore errors. So it
can be fixed like this:
proc send {sock msg} {
if { [catch { puts $sock $msg }] } {
catch {
set who $id($sock)
log alert: Socket crash for user: $who
}
}
}
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Re: [computer-go] CGOS lockups
Don Dailey wrote:
Good catch -
No pun intended ...
that definitely looks wrong and I'll make the fix.
I'll put a more generic log message outside the catch statement because
I still want something logged in this case.
- Don
Michael Williams wrote:
I think I found one source of CGOS lockups. In
cgos.vfs/lib/app-cgos/cgos.tcl, the following code exists:
proc send {sock msg} {
if { [catch { puts $sock $msg }] } {
set who $id($sock)
log alert: Socket crash for user: $who
}
}
But when the third line down fails, cgos goes into some weird state.
That line and the next are non-essential and can ignore errors. So it
can be fixed like this:
proc send {sock msg} {
if { [catch { puts $sock $msg }] } {
catch {
set who $id($sock)
log alert: Socket crash for user: $who
}
}
}
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[computer-go] MoGoRel3_3550pps
MoGoRel3_3550pps is MoGo started like this: ./mogo --19 on a core2 duo, which is yielding about 3550 playouts per second from an empty 19x19 board. Does the current rating of 1143 seem lower than expected to anyone else? I guess the public version of MoGo was designed with a focus on 9x9 and not 19x19. Or is there something else I should be including on the command line? I know I could add pondering, but that is not going to matter much. I could add another thread, but I need that other core for other things :) ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
Re: [computer-go] MoGoRel3_3550pps
MoGoRel3_3550pps lost its winning game for not removing dead stones. http://www.lri.fr/~teytaud/SGF/2008/01/10/8590.sgf Maybe Mogo will pass when opponent pass in 19x19. Is there no option to remove dead stones? Hiroshi Yamashita - Original Message - From: Michael Williams [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: computer-go computer-go@computer-go.org Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2008 12:35 PM Subject: [computer-go] MoGoRel3_3550pps MoGoRel3_3550pps is MoGo started like this: ./mogo --19 on a core2 duo, which is yielding about 3550 playouts per second from an empty 19x19 board. Does the current rating of 1143 seem lower than expected to anyone else? I guess the public version of MoGo was designed with a focus on 9x9 and not 19x19. Or is there something else I should be including on the command line? I know I could add pondering, but that is not going to matter much. I could add another thread, but I need that other core for other things :) ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/ ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
[computer-go] Re: MoGoRel3_3550pps
I use, mogo --9 --totalTime 300 --nbThread 1 --pondering 1 --playsAgainstHuman 0 for mogo-pr-1core and mogo --9 --nbTotalSimulations 1 --nbThread 1 --pondering 1 --playsAgainstHuman 0 for mogo-pr-10k on cgos 9x9. I guess --playsAgainstHuman 0 is missing. -Hideki Michael Williams: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: MoGoRel3_3550pps is MoGo started like this: ./mogo --19 on a core2 duo, which is yielding about 3550 playouts per second from an empty 19x19 board. Does the current rating of 1143 seem lower than expected to anyone else? I guess the public version of MoGo was designed with a focus on 9x9 and not 19x19. Or is there something else I should be including on the command line? I know I could add pondering, but that is not going to matter much. I could add another thread, but I need that other core for other things :) ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/ -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Kato) ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
Re: [computer-go] Re: MoGoRel3_3550pps
Yep, thanks to both who answered. I was thinking that parameter defaulted to 0. Obviously not. Hideki Kato wrote: I use, mogo --9 --totalTime 300 --nbThread 1 --pondering 1 --playsAgainstHuman 0 for mogo-pr-1core and mogo --9 --nbTotalSimulations 1 --nbThread 1 --pondering 1 --playsAgainstHuman 0 for mogo-pr-10k on cgos 9x9. I guess --playsAgainstHuman 0 is missing. -Hideki Michael Williams: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: MoGoRel3_3550pps is MoGo started like this: ./mogo --19 on a core2 duo, which is yielding about 3550 playouts per second from an empty 19x19 board. Does the current rating of 1143 seem lower than expected to anyone else? I guess the public version of MoGo was designed with a focus on 9x9 and not 19x19. Or is there something else I should be including on the command line? I know I could add pondering, but that is not going to matter much. I could add another thread, but I need that other core for other things :) ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/ -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Kato) ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/ ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
