Re: [Computer-go] Frisbee Go

[Gonçalo Mendes Ferreira]

I don't like it very much, simply selecting only from the valid
neighbors would simplify the rules and shorten the game, but I guess
maybe it does seem similar to what would happen in real life. Are there
other games played with frisbees?

Anyways I propose a frisbee-probability GTP command, it is the bare
minimum to play this:

frisbee-probability (optional)
arguments float - Value between 0 and 1
effects   Change the active probability of playing intended
intersection.
outputnone
fails syntax error - fails if out of range probability value (<
0 or > 1); unable to change - fails if invoked in the middle of the game
comments  Programs that only support probability 1.0 should not
include this command in their list_commands output.

Sounds about right? It should be the only change necessary for GTP to
start supporting the frisbee.

Gonçalo




On 21/02/2016 01:18, John Tromp wrote:
> I don't remember if there was consensus, but can repeat my previous thoughts:
> 
>> 1. What happens with plays unintentionally on top of stones or out of
>> bounds?
> 
> Converted to involuntary pass.
> Note that a throw must have some positive probability of converting into
> a legal move. This way, infinitely long games have 0 probability.
> 
>> 1.1 If converted to passes, do they count towards end of play and
>> scoring phase?
> 
> No; only voluntary passes should. Otherwise games would most
> likely end prematurely.
> 
>> 2. How are the play probabilities distributed?
> 
> They're governed by a single parameter, the hit probability p.
> You hit the target with prob. p, and its 4 neighbours with probability 
> (1-p)/4.
> 
> I don't believe there's a single value of p that everyone likes best.
> 
> One extreme p=1 is classical Go. The other extreme p=0 is guaranteed
> to miss the target. Other natural choices are p=1/2 or p=1/5.
> (Values in 1/2 < p < 1 seem a little dull to me).
> 
> regards,
> -John
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Re: [Computer-go] Frisbee Go

[John Tromp]

I don't remember if there was consensus, but can repeat my previous thoughts:

> 1. What happens with plays unintentionally on top of stones or out of
> bounds?

Converted to involuntary pass.
Note that a throw must have some positive probability of converting into
a legal move. This way, infinitely long games have 0 probability.

> 1.1 If converted to passes, do they count towards end of play and
> scoring phase?

No; only voluntary passes should. Otherwise games would most
likely end prematurely.

> 2. How are the play probabilities distributed?

They're governed by a single parameter, the hit probability p.
You hit the target with prob. p, and its 4 neighbours with probability (1-p)/4.

I don't believe there's a single value of p that everyone likes best.

One extreme p=1 is classical Go. The other extreme p=0 is guaranteed
to miss the target. Other natural choices are p=1/2 or p=1/5.
(Values in 1/2 < p < 1 seem a little dull to me).

regards,
-John
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[Computer-go] Frisbee Go

[Gonçalo Mendes Ferreira]

Hello all,

Has a consensus been reached about the rules/GTP modifications for
frisbee Go? I assume a genmove turns into a genmove_reg+play, but:

1. What happens with plays unintentionally on top of stones or out of
bounds?
1.1 If converted to passes, do they count towards end of play and
scoring phase?
2. How are the play probabilities distributed?

I don't remember this being settled, but maybe I've missed it.

Gonçalo


PS: Late congratulations to Silver, Huang et al, and John Tromp.
PPS: My money is still on Lee Sedol.
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Re: [Computer-go] longest 3x3 game

[grok]

As the smoke cleared, Darren Cook 
mounted the barricade and roared out:

> >> The longest I've been able to find, by more or less random sampling,
> >> is only 521 moves,
> > 
> > Found a 582 move 3x3 game...

Is AlphaGo 'aware' of this database..?



-- grok.





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Re: [Computer-go] longest 3x3 game

[Darren Cook]

>> The longest I've been able to find, by more or less random sampling,
>> is only 521 moves,
> 
> Found a 582 move 3x3 game...

Again by random sampling?

Are there certain moves(*) that bring games to an end earlier, or
certain moves(*) that make games go on longer? Would weighting them
appropriately in your random playouts help?

*: or move sequences. E.g. playing a stone in atari that the opponent
then does not capture. (No idea if that makes a game longer or shorter,
just meaning it as an example.)

Darren

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Re: [Computer-go] longest 3x3 game

[John Tromp]

> The longest I've been able to find, by more or less random sampling,
> is only 521 moves,

Found a 582 move 3x3 game...

regards,
-John
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Re: [Computer-go] Everybody should participate!

[Erik van der Werf]

Don't think so, for most people it was already 'over' years ago, but Go has
a great handicap system :-)
Op 20 feb. 2016 17:53 schreef Ingo Althöfer <3-hirn-ver...@gmx.de>:

> Possibly the last opportunity before "game over".
>
> Ingo.
>
>
> *Gesendet:* Samstag, 20. Februar 2016 um 15:38 Uhr
> *Von:* "Nick Wedd" 
> *An:* computer-go@computer-go.org
> *Betreff:* Re: [Computer-go] February KGS bot tournament
> Reminder - it's tomorrow
>
> Nick
>
> On 11 February 2016 at 11:38, Nick Wedd  wrote:
>>
>> The February KGS bot tournament will be on Sunday, February  21st,
>> starting at 16:00 UTC and ending at 22:40 UTC.  It will use 9x9 boards,
>> with time limits of 4 minutes each plus fast Canadian overtime, and komi
>> of 7.  See http://www.gokgs.com/tournEntrants.jsp?sort=n=1012
>>
>> Please register by emailing me, with the words "KGS Tournament Registration"
>> in the email title, at mapr...@gmail.com .
>> Nick
>> --
>> Nick Wedd  mapr...@gmail.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Nick Wedd  mapr...@gmail.com
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[Computer-go] Everybody should participate!

[Ingo Althöfer]

Possibly the last opportunity before "game over".

 

Ingo.

 

 

Gesendet: Samstag, 20. Februar 2016 um 15:38 Uhr
Von: "Nick Wedd" 
An: computer-go@computer-go.org
Betreff: Re: [Computer-go] February KGS bot tournament


Reminder - it's tomorrow
 

Nick


 
On 11 February 2016 at 11:38, Nick Wedd  wrote:



The February KGS bot tournament will be on Sunday, February  21st, starting at 16:00 UTC and ending at 22:40 UTC.  It will use 9x9 boards, with time limits of 4 minutes each plus fast Canadian overtime, and komi of 7.  See http://www.gokgs.com/tournEntrants.jsp?sort=n=1012

 

Please register by emailing me, with the words "KGS Tournament Registration" in the email title, at mapr...@gmail.com .






Nick
-- 

Nick Wedd      mapr...@gmail.com
 


 

 
--

Nick Wedd      mapr...@gmail.com

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Re: [Computer-go] February KGS bot tournament

[Nick Wedd]

Reminder - it's tomorrow

Nick

On 11 February 2016 at 11:38, Nick Wedd  wrote:

> The February KGS bot tournament will be on Sunday, February  21st,
> starting at 16:00 UTC and ending at 22:40 UTC.  It will use 9x9 boards,
> with time limits of 4 minutes each plus fast Canadian overtime, and komi
> of 7.  See http://www.gokgs.com/tournEntrants.jsp?sort=n=1012
>
> Please register by emailing me, with the words "KGS Tournament Registration"
> in the email title, at mapr...@gmail.com .
> Nick
> --
> Nick Wedd  mapr...@gmail.com
>



-- 
Nick Wedd  mapr...@gmail.com
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