Re: [Computer-go] New paper by DeepMind
What's insane about it? To me, what Jim O'Flaherty stated is common sense in the field of patents, and any patent attorney would attest to that. If I may add, Jim's last sentence should read "Google's patent application" instead of "Google's patent". The difference is huge, and this may be in the heart of the issue, which is not well understood by the general public. In other words, thousands of patent applications are filed in the world without any hope of the patent eventually being granted, to establish "prior art" thereby protecting what's described in it from being patented by somebody else. Or, am I responding to a troll? Tokumoto On Fri, Dec 7, 2018 at 10:01 AM uurtamo wrote: > You're insane. > > On Thu, Dec 6, 2018, 4:13 PM Jim O'Flaherty wrote: > >> Remember, patents are a STRATEGIC mechanism as well as a legal mechanism. >> As soon as a patent is publically filed (for example, as utility, and >> following provisional), the text and claims in the patent immediately >> become prior art globally as of the original filing date REGARDLESS of >> whether the patent is eventually approved or rejected. IOW, a patent filing >> is a mechanism to ensure no one else can make a similar claim without >> risking this filing being used as a possible prior art refutation. >> >> I know this only because it is a strategy option my company is using in >> an entirely different unrelated domain. The patent filing is defensive such >> that someone else cannot make a claim and take our inventions away from us >> just because the coincidentally hit near our inventions. >> >> So considering Google's past and their participation in the OIN, it is >> very likely Google's patent is ensuring the ground all around this area is >> sufficiently salted to stop anyone from attempting to exploit nearby patent >> claims. >> >> >> Respectfully, >> >> Jim O'Flaherty >> >> >> On Thu, Dec 6, 2018 at 5:44 PM Erik van der Werf < >> erikvanderw...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> On Thu, Dec 6, 2018 at 11:28 PM Rémi Coulom wrote: >>> Also, the AlphaZero algorithm is patented: https://patentscope2.wipo.int/search/en/detail.jsf?docId=WO2018215665 >>> >>> So far it just looks like an application (and I don't think it will be >>> be difficult to oppose, if you care about this) >>> >>> Erik >>> >>> ___ >>> Computer-go mailing list >>> Computer-go@computer-go.org >>> http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go >> >> ___ >> Computer-go mailing list >> Computer-go@computer-go.org >> http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go > > ___ > Computer-go mailing list > Computer-go@computer-go.org > http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@computer-go.org http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
Re: [Computer-go] New paper by DeepMind
You're insane. On Thu, Dec 6, 2018, 4:13 PM Jim O'Flaherty Remember, patents are a STRATEGIC mechanism as well as a legal mechanism. > As soon as a patent is publically filed (for example, as utility, and > following provisional), the text and claims in the patent immediately > become prior art globally as of the original filing date REGARDLESS of > whether the patent is eventually approved or rejected. IOW, a patent filing > is a mechanism to ensure no one else can make a similar claim without > risking this filing being used as a possible prior art refutation. > > I know this only because it is a strategy option my company is using in an > entirely different unrelated domain. The patent filing is defensive such > that someone else cannot make a claim and take our inventions away from us > just because the coincidentally hit near our inventions. > > So considering Google's past and their participation in the OIN, it is > very likely Google's patent is ensuring the ground all around this area is > sufficiently salted to stop anyone from attempting to exploit nearby patent > claims. > > > Respectfully, > > Jim O'Flaherty > > > On Thu, Dec 6, 2018 at 5:44 PM Erik van der Werf > wrote: > >> On Thu, Dec 6, 2018 at 11:28 PM Rémi Coulom wrote: >> >>> Also, the AlphaZero algorithm is patented: >>> https://patentscope2.wipo.int/search/en/detail.jsf?docId=WO2018215665 >>> >> >> So far it just looks like an application (and I don't think it will be be >> difficult to oppose, if you care about this) >> >> Erik >> >> ___ >> Computer-go mailing list >> Computer-go@computer-go.org >> http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go > > ___ > Computer-go mailing list > Computer-go@computer-go.org > http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@computer-go.org http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
Re: [Computer-go] New paper by DeepMind
Remember, patents are a STRATEGIC mechanism as well as a legal mechanism. As soon as a patent is publically filed (for example, as utility, and following provisional), the text and claims in the patent immediately become prior art globally as of the original filing date REGARDLESS of whether the patent is eventually approved or rejected. IOW, a patent filing is a mechanism to ensure no one else can make a similar claim without risking this filing being used as a possible prior art refutation. I know this only because it is a strategy option my company is using in an entirely different unrelated domain. The patent filing is defensive such that someone else cannot make a claim and take our inventions away from us just because the coincidentally hit near our inventions. So considering Google's past and their participation in the OIN, it is very likely Google's patent is ensuring the ground all around this area is sufficiently salted to stop anyone from attempting to exploit nearby patent claims. Respectfully, Jim O'Flaherty On Thu, Dec 6, 2018 at 5:44 PM Erik van der Werf wrote: > On Thu, Dec 6, 2018 at 11:28 PM Rémi Coulom wrote: > >> Also, the AlphaZero algorithm is patented: >> https://patentscope2.wipo.int/search/en/detail.jsf?docId=WO2018215665 >> > > So far it just looks like an application (and I don't think it will be be > difficult to oppose, if you care about this) > > Erik > > ___ > Computer-go mailing list > Computer-go@computer-go.org > http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@computer-go.org http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
Re: [Computer-go] New paper by DeepMind
More games in general. looks like more chess games than previously available(wasn't it previously just 100, now it is 210) and it looks like they addressed the flack they got from the chess community by moving the hash size from 1G to 32G for stockfish. On Thu, Dec 6, 2018 at 4:12 PM Rémi Coulom wrote: > > Interesting, thanks. I had not found pseudocode.py. > > It is in that file: > http://science.sciencemag.org/highwire/filestream/719481/field_highwire_adjunct_files/1/aar6404_DataS1.zip > > The link is at the bottom of that page: > http://science.sciencemag.org/content/362/6419/1140/tab-figures-data > > Rémi > > - Mail original - > De: "Dan Schmidt" > À: computer-go@computer-go.org > Envoyé: Jeudi 6 Décembre 2018 23:39:57 > Objet: Re: [Computer-go] New paper by DeepMind > > > > > I believe that the dependence of C(s) (formerly c_puct) on N(s) is new. > > > The file pseudocode.py in the supplementary download sets c_base to 19652 and > c_init to 1.25. > > > Dan > > > > On Thu, Dec 6, 2018 at 5:27 PM Rémi Coulom < remi.cou...@free.fr > wrote: > > > Hi, > > The new alphazero paper of DeepMind about chess and shogi has been published > in Science: > > https://deepmind.com/blog/alphazero-shedding-new-light-grand-games-chess-shogi-and-go/ > > pdf: > https://deepmind.com/documents/260/alphazero_preprint.pdf > > I tried to play "spot the difference" with their previous draft, and did not > notice any very important difference. They include shogi games, which might > be appreciated by the shogi players. It seems they still don't tell the value > of their exploration coefficient, unless I missed anything. > > Also, the AlphaZero algorithm is patented: > https://patentscope2.wipo.int/search/en/detail.jsf?docId=WO2018215665 > > Rémi > ___ > Computer-go mailing list > Computer-go@computer-go.org > http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go > ___ > Computer-go mailing list > Computer-go@computer-go.org > http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go > ___ > Computer-go mailing list > Computer-go@computer-go.org > http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@computer-go.org http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
Re: [Computer-go] New paper by DeepMind
On Thu, Dec 6, 2018 at 11:28 PM Rémi Coulom wrote: > Also, the AlphaZero algorithm is patented: > https://patentscope2.wipo.int/search/en/detail.jsf?docId=WO2018215665 > So far it just looks like an application (and I don't think it will be be difficult to oppose, if you care about this) Erik ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@computer-go.org http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
Re: [Computer-go] New paper by DeepMind
What exactly is the innovation that is patented ? Using short look-ahead searches for tuning evaluation functions ( in this case a neural network ) is not exactly new. On Thu, Dec 6, 2018 at 3:28 PM Rémi Coulom wrote: > Hi, > > The new alphazero paper of DeepMind about chess and shogi has been > published in Science: > > > https://deepmind.com/blog/alphazero-shedding-new-light-grand-games-chess-shogi-and-go/ > > pdf: > https://deepmind.com/documents/260/alphazero_preprint.pdf > > I tried to play "spot the difference" with their previous draft, and did > not notice any very important difference. They include shogi games, which > might be appreciated by the shogi players. It seems they still don't tell > the value of their exploration coefficient, unless I missed anything. > > Also, the AlphaZero algorithm is patented: > https://patentscope2.wipo.int/search/en/detail.jsf?docId=WO2018215665 > > Rémi > ___ > Computer-go mailing list > Computer-go@computer-go.org > http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@computer-go.org http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
Re: [Computer-go] New paper by DeepMind
Interesting, thanks. I had not found pseudocode.py. It is in that file: http://science.sciencemag.org/highwire/filestream/719481/field_highwire_adjunct_files/1/aar6404_DataS1.zip The link is at the bottom of that page: http://science.sciencemag.org/content/362/6419/1140/tab-figures-data Rémi - Mail original - De: "Dan Schmidt" À: computer-go@computer-go.org Envoyé: Jeudi 6 Décembre 2018 23:39:57 Objet: Re: [Computer-go] New paper by DeepMind I believe that the dependence of C(s) (formerly c_puct) on N(s) is new. The file pseudocode.py in the supplementary download sets c_base to 19652 and c_init to 1.25. Dan On Thu, Dec 6, 2018 at 5:27 PM Rémi Coulom < remi.cou...@free.fr > wrote: Hi, The new alphazero paper of DeepMind about chess and shogi has been published in Science: https://deepmind.com/blog/alphazero-shedding-new-light-grand-games-chess-shogi-and-go/ pdf: https://deepmind.com/documents/260/alphazero_preprint.pdf I tried to play "spot the difference" with their previous draft, and did not notice any very important difference. They include shogi games, which might be appreciated by the shogi players. It seems they still don't tell the value of their exploration coefficient, unless I missed anything. Also, the AlphaZero algorithm is patented: https://patentscope2.wipo.int/search/en/detail.jsf?docId=WO2018215665 Rémi ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@computer-go.org http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@computer-go.org http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@computer-go.org http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
Re: [Computer-go] New paper by DeepMind
I believe that the dependence of C(s) (formerly c_puct) on N(s) is new. The file pseudocode.py in the supplementary download sets c_base to 19652 and c_init to 1.25. Dan On Thu, Dec 6, 2018 at 5:27 PM Rémi Coulom wrote: > Hi, > > The new alphazero paper of DeepMind about chess and shogi has been > published in Science: > > > https://deepmind.com/blog/alphazero-shedding-new-light-grand-games-chess-shogi-and-go/ > > pdf: > https://deepmind.com/documents/260/alphazero_preprint.pdf > > I tried to play "spot the difference" with their previous draft, and did > not notice any very important difference. They include shogi games, which > might be appreciated by the shogi players. It seems they still don't tell > the value of their exploration coefficient, unless I missed anything. > > Also, the AlphaZero algorithm is patented: > https://patentscope2.wipo.int/search/en/detail.jsf?docId=WO2018215665 > > Rémi > ___ > Computer-go mailing list > Computer-go@computer-go.org > http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@computer-go.org http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
[Computer-go] New paper by DeepMind
Hi, The new alphazero paper of DeepMind about chess and shogi has been published in Science: https://deepmind.com/blog/alphazero-shedding-new-light-grand-games-chess-shogi-and-go/ pdf: https://deepmind.com/documents/260/alphazero_preprint.pdf I tried to play "spot the difference" with their previous draft, and did not notice any very important difference. They include shogi games, which might be appreciated by the shogi players. It seems they still don't tell the value of their exploration coefficient, unless I missed anything. Also, the AlphaZero algorithm is patented: https://patentscope2.wipo.int/search/en/detail.jsf?docId=WO2018215665 Rémi ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@computer-go.org http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
