Re: [Computer-go] DarkForest is open-source now.

[Urban Hafner]

Brilliant! Another engine to have a look at and/or copy from. Such a great 
learning opportunity!

Oh and some day my engine will have NN support as well. Maybe I'll be able to 
beat GnuGo then. ;)

> Am 10.06.2016 um 20:31 schrieb Yuandong Tian :
> 
> Hi all, 
> 
> DarkForest Go engine is now public on the Github (pre-trained CNN models are 
> also public). Hopefully it will help the community. 
> 
> https://github.com/facebookresearch/darkforestGo
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Best,
> Yuandong
> 
> 
> Yuandong Tian
> Research Scientist,
> Facebook Artificial Intelligence Research (FAIR)
> Website: 
> https://research.facebook.com/researchers/1517678171821436/yuandong-tian/
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Re: [Computer-go] DarkForest is open-source now.

[Ingo Althöfer]

Hello,

thanks to Yuangdong for the publication which will
definitely help our scene to make progress.


Von: "Petr Baudis" 
> My personal opinion is that it's fine:
> ... 
> 
>   Let's not let this discussion overshadow the fact that we have the new
> strongest open source bot!  Congratulations and huge thanks to FAIR for
> releasing it as open source.  (At least if/until Pachi gets proper NN
> support as well. ;-)

Thanks also to Petr for his friendly view
on the topic.

Ingo.
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Re: [Computer-go] DarkForest is open-source now.

[Petr Baudis]

  My personal opinion is that it's fine:

https://github.com/facebookresearch/darkforestGo/issues/1
https://twitter.com/xpasky/status/741381620322738176

To me, this usage is very different to e.g. someone taking Pachi
as a whole and integrating it in a non-GPL product, or even taking
substantial Pachi code (board implementation, some more elaborate
tactics heuristics, ...) and *building their non-GPL engine around
that*.

  No time to elaborate about the nuances (of my personal legal opinion
+ IANAL) right now, but in general licencing is not so simple that any
few lines of code will make the whole source tree GPL no questions
asked.  First, it must be actually copyrightable, which is not an
automatic thing and a stretch to say about most of the bits outside
dedicated Pachi directory (which are generally just scattered pieces of
technical scaffolding).  Second, it must make the rest of the source
a derivative work, which imho is clearly not the case for the simple
playout policy.

  [*] If someone distributes a compiled DarkForest binary with the
"simple policy" of pachi subdirectory linked in, *that* is covered
by GPL.  But it should be a trivial matter not to even link it in.


  Let's not let this discussion overshadow the fact that we have the new
strongest open source bot!  Congratulations and huge thanks to FAIR for
releasing it as open source.  (At least if/until Pachi gets proper NN
support as well. ;-)

On Fri, Jun 10, 2016 at 11:02:15PM +0200, Xavier Combelle wrote:
> for me it's clearly GPL violation
> 
> 2016-06-10 22:17 GMT+02:00 Darren Cook :
> 
> > >> At 5d KGS, is this the world's strongest MIT/BSD licensed program? ...
> > >> actually, is there any other MIT/BSD go program out there? (I thought
> > >> Pachi was, but it is GPLv2)
> > >
> > > Huh, that's interesting, because Darkforest seems to have copy-pasted
> > > the pachi playout policy:
> > >
> > >
> > https://github.com/facebookresearch/darkforestGo/blob/master/board/pattern.c#L36
> > >
> > > https://github.com/pasky/pachi/blob/master/playout/moggy.c#L101
> >
> > Uh-oh. Though it does say "inspired by" at the top, and also that it is
> > not used by the main engine:
> >
> > // This file is inspired by Pachi's engine
> > //   (https://github.com/pasky/pachi).
> > // The main DarkForest engine (when specified
> > //   with `--playout_policy v2`) does not depend on it.
> > // However, the simple policy opened with
> > //   `--playout_policy simple` will use this library.
> >
> >
> > Darren
> >
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> >

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-- 
Petr Baudis
If you have good ideas, good data and fast computers,
you can do almost anything. -- Geoffrey Hinton
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Re: [Computer-go] DarkForest is open-source now.

[Igor Polyakov]

Can I run the CNN on my ATI card somehow?


On 2016-06-10 10:31, Yuandong Tian wrote:

Hi all,

DarkForest Go engine is now public on the Github (pre-trained CNN 
models are also public). Hopefully it will help the community.


https://github.com/facebookresearch/darkforestGo

Thanks!

Best,
Yuandong


Yuandong Tian
Research Scientist,
Facebook Artificial Intelligence Research (FAIR)
Website: 
https://research.facebook.com/researchers/1517678171821436/yuandong-tian/



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Re: [Computer-go] DarkForest is open-source now.

[Marc Landgraf]

This GPL discussion just shows why we hardly ever get such amazing
insight... Which is pretty sad. :/ I hope it neither discourages the
FAIR team nor others from still publishing their stuff in the future.

2016-06-11 0:05 GMT+02:00 uurtamo :
> GPL is rough
>
> On Jun 10, 2016 2:02 PM, "Xavier Combelle" 
> wrote:
>>
>> for me it's clearly GPL violation
>>
>> 2016-06-10 22:17 GMT+02:00 Darren Cook :
>>>
>>> >> At 5d KGS, is this the world's strongest MIT/BSD licensed program? ...
>>> >> actually, is there any other MIT/BSD go program out there? (I thought
>>> >> Pachi was, but it is GPLv2)
>>> >
>>> > Huh, that's interesting, because Darkforest seems to have copy-pasted
>>> > the pachi playout policy:
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > https://github.com/facebookresearch/darkforestGo/blob/master/board/pattern.c#L36
>>> >
>>> > https://github.com/pasky/pachi/blob/master/playout/moggy.c#L101
>>>
>>> Uh-oh. Though it does say "inspired by" at the top, and also that it is
>>> not used by the main engine:
>>>
>>> // This file is inspired by Pachi's engine
>>> //   (https://github.com/pasky/pachi).
>>> // The main DarkForest engine (when specified
>>> //   with `--playout_policy v2`) does not depend on it.
>>> // However, the simple policy opened with
>>> //   `--playout_policy simple` will use this library.
>>>
>>>
>>> Darren
>>>
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>>
>>
>>
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Re: [Computer-go] DarkForest is open-source now.

[uurtamo]

GPL is rough
On Jun 10, 2016 2:02 PM, "Xavier Combelle" 
wrote:

> for me it's clearly GPL violation
>
> 2016-06-10 22:17 GMT+02:00 Darren Cook :
>
>> >> At 5d KGS, is this the world's strongest MIT/BSD licensed program? ...
>> >> actually, is there any other MIT/BSD go program out there? (I thought
>> >> Pachi was, but it is GPLv2)
>> >
>> > Huh, that's interesting, because Darkforest seems to have copy-pasted
>> > the pachi playout policy:
>> >
>> >
>> https://github.com/facebookresearch/darkforestGo/blob/master/board/pattern.c#L36
>> >
>> > https://github.com/pasky/pachi/blob/master/playout/moggy.c#L101
>>
>> Uh-oh. Though it does say "inspired by" at the top, and also that it is
>> not used by the main engine:
>>
>> // This file is inspired by Pachi's engine
>> //   (https://github.com/pasky/pachi).
>> // The main DarkForest engine (when specified
>> //   with `--playout_policy v2`) does not depend on it.
>> // However, the simple policy opened with
>> //   `--playout_policy simple` will use this library.
>>
>>
>> Darren
>>
>> ___
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>>
>
>
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Re: [Computer-go] DarkForest is open-source now.

[Aja Huang]

Well done, Yuangdong. :)

Aja

2016-06-10 18:31 GMT+01:00 Yuandong Tian :

> Hi all,
>
> DarkForest Go engine is now public on the Github (pre-trained CNN models
> are also public). Hopefully it will help the community.
>
> https://github.com/facebookresearch/darkforestGo
>
> Thanks!
>
> Best,
> Yuandong
>
> 
> Yuandong Tian
> Research Scientist,
> Facebook Artificial Intelligence Research (FAIR)
> Website:
> https://research.facebook.com/researchers/1517678171821436/yuandong-tian/
>
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Re: [Computer-go] DarkForest is open-source now.

[Xavier Combelle]

for me it's clearly GPL violation

2016-06-10 22:17 GMT+02:00 Darren Cook :

> >> At 5d KGS, is this the world's strongest MIT/BSD licensed program? ...
> >> actually, is there any other MIT/BSD go program out there? (I thought
> >> Pachi was, but it is GPLv2)
> >
> > Huh, that's interesting, because Darkforest seems to have copy-pasted
> > the pachi playout policy:
> >
> >
> https://github.com/facebookresearch/darkforestGo/blob/master/board/pattern.c#L36
> >
> > https://github.com/pasky/pachi/blob/master/playout/moggy.c#L101
>
> Uh-oh. Though it does say "inspired by" at the top, and also that it is
> not used by the main engine:
>
> // This file is inspired by Pachi's engine
> //   (https://github.com/pasky/pachi).
> // The main DarkForest engine (when specified
> //   with `--playout_policy v2`) does not depend on it.
> // However, the simple policy opened with
> //   `--playout_policy simple` will use this library.
>
>
> Darren
>
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Re: [Computer-go] DarkForest is open-source now.

[Darren Cook]

>> At 5d KGS, is this the world's strongest MIT/BSD licensed program? ...
>> actually, is there any other MIT/BSD go program out there? (I thought
>> Pachi was, but it is GPLv2)
> 
> Huh, that's interesting, because Darkforest seems to have copy-pasted
> the pachi playout policy:
> 
> https://github.com/facebookresearch/darkforestGo/blob/master/board/pattern.c#L36
> 
> https://github.com/pasky/pachi/blob/master/playout/moggy.c#L101

Uh-oh. Though it does say "inspired by" at the top, and also that it is
not used by the main engine:

// This file is inspired by Pachi's engine
//   (https://github.com/pasky/pachi).
// The main DarkForest engine (when specified
//   with `--playout_policy v2`) does not depend on it.
// However, the simple policy opened with
//   `--playout_policy simple` will use this library.


Darren

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Re: [Computer-go] DarkForest is open-source now.

[Dave Dyer]

At 11:31 AM 6/10/2016, uurtamo wrote:

>Compiler no workie? ;)

Lazy. Lots of junk to install and get working.


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Re: [Computer-go] DarkForest is open-source now.

[uurtamo]

Compiler no workie? ;)

s.
On Jun 10, 2016 11:15 AM, "Dave Dyer"  wrote:

>
> Now if someone would post a binary that would just run on suitable
> hardware.
>
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Re: [Computer-go] DarkForest is open-source now.

[Dave Dyer]

Now if someone would post a binary that would just run on suitable hardware.

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Re: [Computer-go] DarkForest is open-source now.

[Dave Dyer]

Now if someone would post a binary that would just run on suitable hardware.

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Re: [Computer-go] DarkForest is open-source now.

[Gian-Carlo Pascutto]

On 10/06/2016 19:57, Darren Cook wrote:
> At 5d KGS, is this the world's strongest MIT/BSD licensed program? ...
> actually, is there any other MIT/BSD go program out there? (I thought
> Pachi was, but it is GPLv2)

Huh, that's interesting, because Darkforest seems to have copy-pasted
the pachi playout policy:

https://github.com/facebookresearch/darkforestGo/blob/master/board/pattern.c#L36

https://github.com/pasky/pachi/blob/master/playout/moggy.c#L101

-- 
GCP
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Re: [Computer-go] DarkForest is open-source now.

[Darren Cook]

> DarkForest Go engine is now public on the Github (pre-trained CNN models are 
> also public). Hopefully it will help the community.
> 
> https://github.com/facebookresearch/darkforestGo

Ooh, BSD license (i.e. very liberal, no GPL virus). Well done! :-)

At 5d KGS, is this the world's strongest MIT/BSD licensed program? ...
actually, is there any other MIT/BSD go program out there? (I thought
Pachi was, but it is GPLv2)

Darren

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